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bylertruther-moved · 2 years

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i’m rewatching the cali gang scenes from season four and something that sticks out to me is how everyone is so out of sync with each other. allow me to explain what i mean:

mike and eleven

we can tell that they’ve both been lying to each other for an entire year through their letters. eleven lies about being happy in lenora and mike lies by omission with his “from mike”s.

in his fight with eleven, mike is initially being open and honest. he’s trying to connect with her over being bullied and prods her to open up, but chokes when she finally does. mike thinks that he understands her, but he doesn’t and eleven—having already realized this—has already moved on. we see that the reason she’s been lying to him this entire time has been because she doesn’t feel like he loves her the way that she loves him. she has a book of letters from him, all of them responding to her with “from mike”. we see that he hasn’t said it with his words, ever.

in turn, this makes eleven feel like she isn’t enough for him and that she has to create this fantasy version of herself in order for him to potentially love her. he asks her to meet him where he is and so she does, only for him to retreat. she tells him what’s going on, she reveals everything, exactly as he asked, and he immediately exits the conversation: “you can’t actually believe that”, “who said that i didn’t?”, "you're being ridiculous", "what is this?", "you can't let these mouth breathers ruin you. ruin us.", "they're nobodies". none of his responses address her concerns. none of them assume responsibility; they’re all deflecting. none of them are responding to the fact that his inaction has led her to feel like things have changed between them.

they’re out of sync. mike doesn’t understand eleven: not how she feels, not what she’s going through, and not what she wants from him. this could be his obliviousness, his desire to turn back the clock, or both. eleven is out of sync with him, because she’s grown in their time apart and she wants their relationship to grow with it. she needs him to see, love, and understand who she really is; to see her as more than a girl with superpowers.

mike and will

immediately, we see that they’re not on the same page from their very first interaction: will was going for a hug and mike was going for who-knows-what. he asks about the painting, perhaps in effort to save face or salvage something between them, but it’s too late: will has already sensed that things are not how he’d hoped they’d be, and so he retreats. they conclude that interaction in the most painfully awkward way possible, with mike seemingly ignoring him and will feeling dejected. it’s only afterward that we learn the reasons behind their actions here.

despite his hurt, we see that will still cares about mike. we can tell that he’s clearly very bothered by eleven lying to him, seeing as he confronts her about it once mike gets up, telling her: “i don't think mike's gonna like that you're lying to him and he doesn't deserve that. when he finds out, he's gonna be mad.” later on, when those lies blow up in her face, will tells mike what’s really going on... who, in turn, gets angry with him.

thus far, the audience is mostly experiencing this day through will’s perspective. we assume that mike doesn’t care about will, that they’re clearly not friends anymore, and that all of his attention is focused solely on eleven. only... this isn’t the case.

mike is upset that will never told him the truth, that he was apparently being "a douche all day". we hear him say that will was rolling his eyes, moping, barely talking, and that it's sabotaged the whole day. that means that he has been paying attention; that he has been tuned in to will’s emotions, enough that it’s managed to ruin his day, despite him appearing happy with eleven. a disconnect: will didn’t notice that mike still cares and mike feels like he’s the only one that still does.

this is supported by their fight, as will thinks that mike didn’t reach out enough and mike tells will that he could’ve reached out, too. this is a fact that stumps will into silence and so they move on. it’s only later that we’re told two things: calls in hawkins are being monitored and so they wouldn’t have been able to call to speak to eleven, and mike did try calling multiple times, but the line was always busy because of joyce’s telemarketing job. this explains mike’s behavior early on, because he feels (and later admits) that it’s as though he lost will. will assumed that the lack of calls meant that mike didn’t want to talk to him anymore, and mike assumed that will’s lack of trying was indicative of him not wanting to talk anymore, too.

they’re out of sync, and yet somehow... exactly on the same page? they both feel as though they’ve been left behind and are both acting directly from those feelings. the issue is that they haven’t been open with each other and thus are entirely in the dark about how the other feels, not realizing that they’re mirror images of one another.

as the season progresses, we see how will and mike eventually (mostly) resolve their issues through direct, open, and honest communication. mike understands will without will having to ever say anything. in some ways, these two scenarios are equal opposites.

mike prods el, then retreats. will prods mike, then retreats.

“you never say it.” - “i say it.” vs “i didn’t say it.” - “you didn’t have to.”

eleven expresses how she feels and mike refuses to address his part in that. will expresses how he feels and mike does address it directly, unprompted.

that mutual understanding is what allows mike and will to open up to each other without flinching, even after all this time.

mike immediately apologizes to eleven, but he doesn’t understand what he’s done wrong or why she feels the way that she does, and so it feels empty. he can’t be sorry if he doesn’t know why he’s sorry and eleven knows this.

later on, mike doesn’t apologize to will directly, but he does provide an explanation for his actions and expresses that he wants to be closer, by suggesting that they work together as a team and as best friends. he doesn’t say the words “i’m sorry”, but his actions suggest that he is. he wants to do better by him and understands that he must.

it’s important to note as well that mike gives only one of them what they want.

el wants him to say i love you and he doesn’t.

will says that they used to be best friends and later he calls will his best friend again without ever being asked to.

will doesn’t need to beg mike for something for him to know what he needs or what he feels. eleven begs him with tears in her eyes to please tell her that he really does love her... and he doesn’t. he can’t. he doesn’t even understand why she asks that of him and how he could make her feel that way.

the point that this season really drives home is that mike only truly knows one of them. he may love them both, but he doesn’t know the person that eleven is now. he doesn’t understand her. he doesn’t see her as anything other than the young girl that depended on him for survival, the girl who saved the world time and time again, a fantastical being plucked straight from one of their campaigns. he cares about her most definitely, and yes, he does love her, but not in the same way that she loves him—and that’s the glaring issue.

to me, that’s evident even before the entire fiasco with his monologue to her.

mike is selfish with eleven. he doesn’t tell her that he loves her, because he’s afraid that’ll make the day that she realizes she no longer needs him hurt more for him. he doesn’t care (or realize, if you’d like to put it kindly) that withholding that from her hurts her and makes her insecure. he does this to keep her around, but it only ever pushes her away.

he’s insecure about the fact that he may need her more than she needs him. he’s insecure about the fact that she could grow up and want other things. his feelings, his fears, his reasoning—they’re all about him. he doesn’t ever take her into account. in season three, he gets on will’s case and tells him that he’s stuck in the past, that they’ve all grown up except for him, but this isn’t true. mike is the one living in the past. eleven is the one begging him to join her in the present and he won’t.

he’s terrified that one day el may see him as he really is—a scary thought that alludes to him feeling empowered in this relationship only when she’s dependent on him, indicating that he still sees her as that feral girl she was when they first met and how he refuses to see who she is now.

unfortunately for him, that’s precisely what eleven has realized by the end of this season: that she doesn’t need mike. she is her own person; not brenner’s, not hopper’s, and not mike’s. she is more than her past, and she needs to let it go in order to receive what will be. max is the one person that saw eleven for who she was and encouraged her to find herself and her own happiness. eleven feels that now more than ever.

as a result, it’s max’s love that gives eleven the strength to fight. not mike’s. the vines tighten around eleven during his monologue, because it isn’t what she needs and it isn’t what she wants. she knows that he’s not talking about her. she knows that, we know that, but once again mike does not. instead, mike believes they’re on the same page, but eleven knows that they aren’t. they’re just as out of sync as they were when they started this season, if not more so, dangerously so.

the same is not true for will and mike, though they’re out of sync, too.

we see mike opening up to will, confiding in him, and seeking his advice at multiple points. he believes that they’ve started again on this journey to being as close as they were, only... we know that will is hiding something: he’s in love with mike, but he’s too afraid to say it and loves both him and eleven too much to hurt either of them. thus, it’s now his turn to lie as he fears mike may not stick around if he knows the real him.

at mike’s lowest point, will spills his heart out in an effort to help him, but he does so by proclaiming that these feelings are actually eleven’s. he’s lying by omission, unable to wholly meet mike where he is. meanwhile, mike feels closest to will then: not only has will just helped him to finally understand eleven (or so he thinks), but he’s also revealed and gifted him the painting he previously asked about. mike loves it, is moved by it, and feels will’s love, even if he doesn’t entirely understand what just happened.

he’s vulnerable and open with will in a way that he isn’t with eleven and in a way that will cannot be with him. they’ve both poured their hearts out, but they’re not on the same page. the fact that will has disguised his feelings as el’s means that the mutual understanding and empowerment that mike feels is wrongly attributed to being between him and eleven. thus, they’re out of sync. the romantic love that he’s feeling isn’t hers, it’s will’s and it comes at the end of his very first lie—the thing that mike hates most, coming from the person he’d least expect it from. it’s a double whammy.

will leaves that conversation feeling hopeless and rejected, while mike is blissfully unaware that it could have ever even been an option. will has consequently sabotaged not only his chances at romance, but mike’s, too.

these stories all intersect at mike’s monologue. eleven has just gone through an experience that has changed her entire perspective, both on this world and her place in it. mike feels as though he finally has his best friend back and he knows how to mend his relationship with eleven, but neither are entirely true. will may think that he’s out of the woods, having finally confessed, ripped the band-aid off, and regained his best friend, but his lies will come back to bite him once they’re revealed. no one is safe.

eleven has learned that she does not need mike and that he does not love her how she needs to be loved. she isn’t a monster and she isn’t a superhero. she’s a girl that is tired of being told what she is and what she isn’t. she’s a girl that loves her friends and will always fight for them and what’s right, because that’s who she is.

mike is under the impression that will’s love for him is coming from eleven, despite her accounts in their last conversation directly contradicting that entire confession, which shows his fundamental misunderstanding of her person and that the person he needs isn’t the person that he thinks he needs. additionally, this realization is sure to come on the heels of the fact that while he has been making attempts to regain closeness with will, will has been keeping things to himself and unintentionally misguiding him even if his intentions were pure.

will is in a precarious position. he has always been honest with mike, always. we know how strongly he feels about this, and yet he tells his first lie this season: his veiled confession. of course, he does this to help lift mike’s spirits, to show him that he’s so much more than what he thinks he is, but his confession is in part what causes mike’s monologue for el to fall flat, because it doesn’t address how eleven feels at all, it addresses how will feels**. additionally, there is the issue that he’s expressed that he wants to be close to mike again and when mike finally agrees, it turns out that he has one foot in and one foot out. he loves mike and he wants to be honest with him, but he doesn’t know how to do that safely in a way that mike would understand. he starts the season scolding eleven for lying to be liked and ends the season doing just that.

** this is further supported by the way that these two monologues (music included) are direct responses to each other when you overlay them. mike and will feel similarly, they always do, but they’re out of sync. they become so whenever they start keeping things from each other, whereas the opposite is true for mike and eleven: they’re only ever “on the same page” when they’re lying to each other, but even then that depends on them never actually seeing each other for who they are and thus it’s only an illusion. with will, it’s real and innate. with eleven, it’s forced out of desperation and conformity.

they all make progress in season four and everyone is trying their best, but it falls in line with the season’s parting message: it’s not enough. yet. these complex individual stories are clearly not even close to being over and the way they’re all at odds puts them all in a very unique position heading in to season five.

#byler #byler analysis #long post #i feel like i wouldn't have been so upset had they released the entire season at once lol because looking back... yeaaaaaaah it doesn't look #good for milkvan and specifically mike.#this feels more like an analysis for them but i feel it's so important to dissect that because it so ... obviously draws attention to byler?#because there are FUNDAMENTAL difference between how he interacts with both of them. at every turn he is unable to do what eleven needs.#the same is not true for byler. he doesn't need any help to fix what he has with will. will understands mike. mike understands will.#they don't need words. immediately mike knows in his heart what it is that he needs to do and he does it. he connects with will.#he LISTENS to will. he RESPONDS to will. he is made BRAVE by will. he feels safe enough to open up with WILL.#season four SHOWS us these things clear as day.#eleven was made brave by MAX. she fights for MAX. he performs a miracle for MAX. not mike.#*she performs etc #miwileven analysis #my thoughts #my posts

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party-gilmore · 3 months

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maybe it’s the AuDHD but every time i see that “if i was orpheus i would simply not turn around - yes you would if you really loved her as deeply as he did then you would” post i can help but feel… like…

is there not love in slogging through the doubt because I Understand the Rule? knowing that if I were to indulge in the selfish need to Be Sure i would be sentencing her again? that if Hades has lied or broken his contract i would return again and hold him to it, now with even more leverage given that he’d broken an oath? that if she had fallen and i reached the top, again would i go back however many times it fucking took?

because I know that if I Don’t Look then losing her is possible, but if I Turn Around then losing her is certain? so this time, on my way back up, the enemy to fight isn’t the underworld or death or hades, it’s myself and my doubt and my fear and i am not stronger than it but my love for her is.

and just because the way i feel it is rooted more in logic and reasoning that emotion and adrenaline doesn’t mean it’s any less passionate or strong.

anyways i know it’s a personal take it just feels like it’s… kind of giving us more analytical type lovers the stink eye a bit. “if you really loved her as much-“ then i would’ve followed the one fucking rule in spite of my fear of MAYBE losing her because DEFINITELY losing her is such???? a MUCH bigger fear???? just logically speaking???

but let’s be real you don’t really… SEE a lot of logical love in media. Not romance specific media at least. It’s all rash decisions caught up in the passion making mistakes hurting each other before figuring it all out. And it’s always portrayed as the IDEAL. Like true love is FIRE! True love is EMOTION! True love is you just can’t think straight around each other!!!!

so that’s probably my REAL frustration actually not with the post itself but just how it feels like it drives home this… “if love isn’t making you a little desperate, it’s not really love” narrative.

And I just… MY love is strong and deep and passionate TOO damnit!!!

#idk just something about how that post is written makes me feel…#that like. as someone who’s showing up love is a little more analytical the implication that the only way to love deeply is to love….#i don’t want to say ‘foolishly’ because i know that’s my own biases coming through because it’s hard for me to see the story as #‘Romantic Tragedy’ and more of a ‘Characters Folly’ type story because it doesn’t seem romantic to me at ALL i would be so fucking PISSED i #was Eurydice like. ‘But the tragedy is that he gave in to love and couldn’t help but look’ NO the fucking TRAGEDY is that she was almost OU #and all he had to do was NOT LOOK like if he REALLY loved her like REALLY ACTUALLY LOVED HER then it’s… it’s a 100% chance he loses her if #he looks. like that’s KNOWN. it’s set in stone. and if I was her and i was almost out and he turns to look my last memory of him isn’t #’oh my love how tragically fulfilling you couldn’t stop yourself i am gone to you forever but at least i know your love for me was so stron #that it was your only weakness’ no it would’ve been ‘you… you couldn’t have trusted? you couldn’t have waited? you knowingly sentence me #back to death out of your own selfishness and fear. we were almost free. but your love for me clearly wasn strong enough to make you brave’

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