#REED AND DOOM DON’T

[theshadowrealmitself]

Spiderman: This is going great actually -annnd Doom’s about to betray us

Dr Doom: *freezes*

Reed: What? No, he’s been redeeming himself, what makes you say that?

Spiderman: I got a spidey sense, tells me when there’s danger

Spiderman, pointing behind himself at Doom: He stepped closer to that weapon

Spiderman: Spidey sense went off

Spiderman: Means he’s a danger with that weapon, he’s gonna betray us, he’s betraying us right now

Reed: Hmm, I say we trust him

20 MINUTES LATER

Dr Doom: I was always going to betray you, and no one knew it!

Spiderman: I knew. I literally said this is what you were going to do. You were right there.

Dr Doom:

Dr Doom: And no one knew!

#definitely ooc #but this scenario made me laugh so I’m sharing it with the rest of y’all #I bet people don’t really understand the spidey sense and underestimate it a lot #Spiderman #spider man #spider-man #Peter Parker #Dr Doom #victor von doom #mr fantastic #reed richards #mister fantastic #made up dialogue by yours truly

[bebx]

Beb if Creelson and Doomreed met eachother, would anyone get along or would it be like fighting cats?

I don’t think Victor would get along with anyone, honestly, unless the partnership benefited him in some way and he could later betray them. Reed is an exception, of course, but even then I think Victor’s still struggling trying to come to terms with the fact that his love for Reed may be genuine, in the sense that a part of him actually wants to have Reed just for himself and he doesn’t really want to betray or hurt Reed; the concept as a whole is confusing and terrifying to him, and Doom doesn’t like being confused or terrified — point is, he’s already struggling enough trying to accept the fact that he loves Reed Richards, I don’t think he can afford trying to genuinely get along with anybody else unless it benefits him.

(that being said, though, I could see him empathizing with Henry and relating to him in more than one way. I think there’d be some unsaid mutual respect between them, but I can’t really see that developing into a friendship.)

but Victor, obviously, cannot stand Eddie.

Henry, I think, would hate Victor at first. maybe Victor even reminded him of Brenner at first, before he got to know him, if he got to know him. and when — if — he knows Victor’s not like Brenner, I can kind of see him stopping trying to actively kill him? but I don’t see a genuine friendship between these two. mutual respect and secret admiration? yes. but not friendship.

on the other hand, I do think Reed and Eddie would get along. Eddie would happily listen to Reed talk about science all day and he’d ask him questions, and Reed would be more than happy to answer him. it’s been a while since someone’s this interested in Reed’s interests without calling him a nerd and bullying him for it, so Reed’s very happy to have Eddie around. and also, Eddie can relate to Reed since they were both bullied, another reason why I think they’d be best friends.

Eddie would tease him about Victor, and when Reed was all blushing, Eddie would just say, “nah it’s cool, my boyfriend’s a psychopath too. see? another thing we both have in common!”

Reed can’t really understand why Eddie’s even with someone like Henry, but he supposes he’s not in the position to make any comments about Eddie’s taste in men when he’s with Victor.

#my inbox is open #doomreed #reed richards #victor von doom #fantastic four #fantastic 4 #henry creel #eddie munson #vecna #stranger things #mister fantastic #julian mcmahon #ioan gruffudd #doctor doom #dr doom #mr fantastic #mr. fantastic #dr. doom #marvel #mcu #marvel cinematic universe #reed x victor #victor x reed #doom x reed #reed x doom #ff #f4 #creelson #reed richards x victor von doom #victor von doom x reed richards

[currently-tired]

i need to write doomrichards.

so badly.

you guys don’t even knowww omg!!! they’re the most divorced. doom hates reed so much. he loves him so much. he’s obsessed. completely and utterly obsessed.

they’re both hung up over each other. they can’t get over each other, even after all the fighting and attempted murder and betrayal.

Doom will never stop chasing after the fantastic four despite the fact that he has a LITERAL COUNTRY TO RUN?!?-

they both look back, and regret. (what could’ve been changed, to prevent this?-)

Doom sees that Richard and Susan are dating and has to choke back a wave of anger. A desire to kill and rage. (…He knows exactly why. But he chokes it down, pushes it back, fills himself with thousands of excuses of why he hates it so much. Because it can’t be that. Anything but that…)

He can’t bring himself to get rid of the tchotchkes that Reed gave him so long ago. With that charming smile on his face as he said “Come on Victor! Your desk is looking a little boring.”

(Something Victor received with an eyeroll and a scoff…)

But there it was still. Five years later. An ocean apart from where it was received. (Both in distance, and sentiment.)

Think of Reed being reminded by little things. hearing music from Victor’s favorite band on the street. A strong cologne.

A suit of armor at the museum, when he goes to give a lecture…

A peek of brown hair in a crowd, in a similar cut to the way his was, before he began hiding it away. It makes Reed do a double take, before he remembers…

A flash of green in the crowd that surrounds them, after they stop some villain.

(Something that makes him pause, his satisfaction after a battle well fought with no injuries to anyone wavering… His smile, as he teased Ben over something stupid fading into a contemplative look, that then faded into the slightest of frowns.)

Maybe he likes to think he got over it. Maybe he is over it, some days more than others.

(But still, he haunts him! Imprints of his likeness, whispers of Victor, everywhere!-)

When the dust settled, they found themselves on two opposite sides. Day by day, they get father and father.

And every day, whether they want to or not, they think of each other. Wonder, how it would’ve been if everything was different. [If they had been born into different situations, if that stupid flight had gone another way. If they had taken another choice directly after it.]

…If they had tried to talk to each other, even years later.

(Ha!- Doom would never sink to that lowly level. Never! He didn’t feel a thing for that man!-

Didn’t miss his hands, running down his spine. Didn’t miss his optimism, his smile, his genius. {Ha! He was so damned stupid! How could he miss something that was never there?!}

Victor felt nothing for him! He just needed him to know his superiority over him! He needed to rub it in. (And every time he lost, just another motivator. Anger. Rage. Bitterness. Jealousy!)

Another trap. Another situation.

One step father down. One step farther away from him.

(…But sometimes, despite all the things he shoved down, and the other things he tried to embrace all the more, he couldn’t help but wonder…. Would it all have played out the same way? Did it have to be this way?..)

#honk shoo posting #doomreed #reed richards #victor von doom

[hexhomos]

HI! hope your day is treating you well, i’ve been interested in doomreed for some time but cape comics are sort of daunting to me just because there’s so much content and i really don’t know where to begin. what do you suggest? thank you!

STRAIGHT OUT THE GATE ill say, read [ "My Dinner With Doom" ] (this is a rly high-qual upload, open it up on desktop!)

It's a key issue oneshot with a lil bit of backstory retelling, featuring a private dinner that happens in the 00's - a good entrance point if you're curious about doomreed in summarization + generally speaking a Real Good Comic overall.

LONG POST INCOMING THIS IS A LONG POST / click readmore

the fantastic four are one of marvel's darling old founding teams so there is pretty much... endless archival, ongoing, multimedia and games content popping up all the time.

They are also kinda one of the rare teams where the growth of the characters is consistent? The kids are allowed to grow older and events from every major run are carried/referenced by the next author so if you want to do chronological there's a lot of incentive and fun stuff.

If you wanna dip your toes into the F4 as a concept, check out:

*the #1 issue of Fantastic Four By Waid & Wieringo (1997) *Mythos: Fantastic Four (2007) [ *The FF (1994) movie that is up for free on youtube!! ] *Fantastic Four (2022) by Ryan North as the current ongoing!

(Some) Singles centered on Doom/Doomreed:

*Fantastic Four (1961) Annual 2 is Doom's original backstory issue *Marvel Two-in-One (2017) by Zdarsky issue #11 & Annual #1 are both crazy good but they spoil big events/conclusions from previous runs if u care abt that!!! (My current fav fic came from these issues.) *Doomgate (novel) by Jeffrey Lang is a good option if you want something that is mostly prose, instead of a comic or movie

NOW BEFORE YOU JUMP AHEAD WITH ANYTHING I *am* following [ this reading guide ] which breaks down specific issues relevant to their relationship as a line through all the different authors over the years.

[ There's also this 2021 guide w/ a few other story/AU highlights! The author said u can send the blog questions and theyll answer too ]

The 'Modern era' (late 90s/00s/10s/Now) Starts with Waid and McDuffie's stuff. The latter wrote My Dinner with Doom!

If you're scared by all the names, don't be - when searching for the issues, just pay attention to the year, # number & author/artist creds.

What I'm reading/liveblogging rn is Hickman's Secret wars era, generally regarded as yaoi ketamine; It's a good epic narrative entrance point if you want to jump into it, and it eventually led into this huge marvel event that changed the multiverse and even brought miles morales into the main timeline, so its BIG and it happened in multiple books - the best way to go about it is;

Pre-hickman:

Fantastic Four (1961) #551 #552 #553 ➡️ (these introduce main ideas we will touch again in secret wars)

Fantastic Four (1961) #558 to #562 ➡️

Doom appears in these too, first/last issues more heavily. Stuff here will be ref'd during the next era.

If you're having fun and want to keep reading you can! Just know that the next storyarc has gathered a largely mixed response bc..... its Millar going hammywammy....... not that necessary.......

anyway when you see hickmans name in the cover STOP and

Jump to actual Hickman secret wars era:

Fantastic Four by Jonathan Hickman: The complete collection➡️

(optional, side plot) If you like Val + Doom, read specifically; *Fantastic Four (2014) #3 & #5 + Fantastic Four Annual (2014) #1 *Agent of Asgard #6 & #7 *Avengers World (2014) #15 & #16

New Avengers (2013) ➡️ check issues on picture, or, if you're a completionist, look for 'Avengers by Jonathan Hickman; complete collection' and skim for the doom/reed relevant bits. There's a lot of characters here but this is a buildup to the big secret wars. Secret Wars (2015) ➡️ (All issues!) Infamous Iron Man (2016) ➡️bendis' doom writing is not very good but hang in there because right after him: Marvel 2-In-One (2017) ➡️ (All issues!) is a banger. Yaoi btw.

You can basically read all the future/past ones as listed, or starting from the beginning of that author's period without worrying, bc they aren't as indebted to each other storywise.

You can also start somewhere else if you want or check out other single issues on the reading guides; It's not a crime! There's a lot of stuff with different takes and genres, I'm slowly chipping away at the secret wars era bc its just very thick and like a serious television drama attempt, except its also insanely funny sometimes.

(I'm still making my way through it so that's what I have at the moment!)

#doomreed #doctor doom #reed richards #victor von doom #marvel comics #reading guide #hexposts #fantastic four #dr doom #mr fantastic #mister fantastic #marvel #meta tag #fic rec

[fandomnerd9602]

Reed meets Y/N in another universe…

Reeds: so you’re Dr Doom? A good guy?

Y/N: only doom for the villains. I may not have Sue’s powers but I still gotta fight the good fight, eh?

Reeds: and Sue?

Y/N: my amazing wife and mother to my two beautiful kids

Sue walks in and hugs Y/N…

Reed: how did you two balance it?

Sue: Y/N’s my world

Y/N: and she’s mine. We make quite the team. Lean on her, Reed.

Sue: lean on your Sue. Don’t lock her out

Reed: thank you

For @konstantin609

A/N: Jodie Comer is my fan cast fav for Sue Storm

#marvel #marvel imagine #marvel fluff #mcu #mcu imagine #mcu fandom #marvel incorrect quotes #incorrect marvel quotes #doctor doom #fantastic four #fantastic 4 #Sue storm #susan storm #jodie comer #Sue Storm x reader #Susan storm x reader #f4

[vroomian]

YRZ: Takes care of Charlie and Lucifer during the most tumultuous period of their lives. (Tis is nothing.) Luci: Sees YRZ teaching Charlie to make soup for him and take care of laundry while giving a should to cry on for the both of them. And continues doing so for the next three years. All while knowing YRZ hates dealing with EMOTIONS and RESPONSIBILTY. (. . . I am doomed.)

Well. In the future, yes. But at the moment? Reed is persona non grata in Lucifer’s eyes.

The main problem is when you feel debilitating depression like that it lies to you. It lies to you so much. Everything is harder. You don’t want to do shit like get out of bed, or parent, or eat.

But Reed has out stubborned heaven, and he is both merciless and paicent when it comes to his self appointed tasks. So: Lucifer doesn’t have a choice. He gets up, or Reed gets him up. He eats, or Reed force feeds him. He spends time with Charlie, or Reed forces him to tell her why himself. Lucifer is dragged by the hair into being functional again. Reed is not kind about it, honestly.

The only way Reed makes it through the whole three years alive, is because Lucifer does love Charlie more than anything. Even in his depression he can’t bring himself to make her cry, and she loves her Uncle Reed. So Reed remains unsmited and willing to take full advantage of it.

When Reed judges that Lucifer isn’t in danger of a relapse, he accepts permanent banishment from the Morningstar castle without complaints or remorse. He doesn’t feel bad and he would do it again. It takes them a couple years to become friends again.

#you've got questions we've got answers #the problem with Yrz is that he’s loyal. sometimes that means forcing your loved ones into better paths. #he’s like you can hate me all you want pal but you will be better so help me god #Lucifer is angry and ashamed for a long time after lol #better towns au

[kvetchlandia]

Poet Delmore Schwartz, New York City Uncredited and Undated Photograph

O Delmore how I miss you. You inspired me to write. You were the greatest man I ever met. You could capture the deepest emotions in the simplest language. Your titles were more than enough to raise the muse of fire on my neck. You were a genius. Doomed.

The mad stories. O Delmore I was so young. I believed so much. We gathered around you as you read Finnegans Wake. So hilarious but impenetrable without you. You said there were few things better in life than to devote oneself to Joyce. You’d annotated every word in the novels you kept from the library. Every word.

And you said you were writing “The Pig’s Valise.” O Delmore no such thing. They looked, after your final delusion led you to a heart attack in the Hotel Dixie. Unclaimed for three days. You—one of the greatest writers of our era. No valise.

You wore the letter from T.S. Eliot next to your heart. His praise of In Dreams. Would that you could have stopped that wedding. No good will come of this!!! You were right. You begged us—Please don’t let them bury me next to my mother. Have a party to celebrate moving from this world hopefully to a better one. And you Lou—I swear—and you know if anyone could I could—you Lou must never write for money or I will haunt you.

I’d given him a short story. He gave me a B. I was so hurt and ashamed. Why haunt talentless me? I was the walker for “The Heavy Bear Who Goes With Me.” To literary cocktails. He hated them. And I was put in charge. Some drinks later—his shirt undone—one tail front right hanging—tie skewed, fly unzipped. O Delmore. You were so beautiful. Named for a silent movie star dancer Frank Delmore. O Delmore—the scar from dueling with Nietzsche.

Reading Yeats and the bell had rung but the poem was not over you hadn’t finished reading—liquid rivulets sprang from your nose but still you would not stop reading. I was transfixed. I cried—the love of the word—the heavy bear.

You told us to break into __’s estate where your wife was being held prisoner. Your wrists broken by those who were your enemies. The pills jumbling your fine mind.

I met you in the bar where you had just ordered five drinks. You said they were so slow that by the time you had the fifth you should have ordered again. Our scotch classes. Vermouth. The jukebox you hated—the lyrics so pathetic.

You called the White House one night to protest their actions against you. A scholarship to your wife to get her away from you and into the arms of whomever in Europe.

I heard the newsboy crying Europe Europe.

Give me enough hope and I’ll hang myself.

Hamlet came from an old upper class family.

Some thought him drunk but—really—he was a manic-depressive—which is like having brown hair.

You have to take your own shower—an existential act. You could slip in the shower and die alone.

Hamlet starting saying strange things. A woman is like a cantaloupe Horatio—once she’s open she goes rotten.

O Delmore where was the Vaudeville for a Princess. A gift to the princess from the stage star in the dressing room.

The duchess stuck her finger up the duke’s ass and the kingdom vanished.

No good will come of this. Stop this courtship!

Sir you must be quiet or I must eject you.

Delmore understood it all and could write it down impeccably.

Shenandoah Fish*. You were too good to survive. The insights got you. The fame expectations. So you taught.

And I saw you in the last round.

I loved your wit and massive knowledge.

You were and have always been the one.

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him think.

I wanted to write. One line as good as yours. My mountain. My inspiration.

You wrote the greatest short story ever written. In Dreams

-- Lou Reed, "Oh Delmore How I Miss You" 2012

----

*Autobiographical Character in several Schwartz works

[mavigator]

me and izzy watched the unreleased 1994 fantastic four movie last night and when i say it is possibly the worst movie i have ever watched. aside from how insanely uncomfortable every reed and sue scene made me . aside from how they made ben and alicia’s meet-cute public harassment . aside from doom’s weird british accent that turns into some strange spanish/slavic/shakespearean amalgamation . aside from when they made victor tenderly caress a man’s face for a strange amount of time . aside from having reed imply that he gained stretchy powers because he’s just too giving . aside from the antisemitic caricatures . aside from all of that . ben didn’t even have a new york accent. they made him say “it’s clobbering time” three times and i felt nothing each time. the only good parts of the movie were 1) reed and victor passing notes in class 2) johnny 3) i think that’s it . don’t watch it

#and by uncomfortable i mean reed and sue met when she was like 15 and started dating ten years later when he saw her again

[peachdoxie]

I don’t think I’ve watched any DP since I was a literal child but your feed got to me

Uhhhhh is Vlad a Doctor Doom knockoff??? College together, extra-dimensional experiment, best friends —> worst enemies, facial scarring…

The difference is Reed Richards is likeable and Jack Fenton is… not???

A lot of Danny Phantom is in fact a ripoff of superheroes. Danny is a Spider-Man ripoff. The season two finale has a very blatant ripoff of the Marvel Infinity Gauntlet. Vlad being a Doctor Doom ripoff would not surprise me in the slightest.

#danny phantom #like im pretty sure this is all actual things bitch fartman has said about dp

[giveamadeuschohisownmovie]

How I’d structure the “Fantastic Four” MCU trilogy:

(1st movie)

The origin story for both the F4 and Doctor Doom. However, the main villain shouldn’t be Doom, it should be someone major but not too important to stick around. So I picked Galactus’ herald Terrax the Tamer. It’s revealed at the end of the movie, Terrax was sent by Galactus to test Earth’s defenses. Galactus is teased in the post-credits.

(2nd movie)

We have two major plots that are intertwined. The first focuses on Reed and Susan’s romance, which is a “will-they-won’t they” dynamic. It’s complicated when Susan goes missing during an ocean expedition, only to be rescued by Namor. Namor falls for Susan, kicking off a love triangle that gets pretty dramatic.

The second plot is that while the above is happening, Talokan is being attacked/manipulated by an unknown force that is trying to push Namor into declaring war on the surface. So Namor is the central antagonist once again as he’s being pushed into declaring war and is Reed’s main love rival.

Crisis is averted when it’s revealed that Doctor Doom was the true villain/mastermind behind the attacks on Talokan. This leads into a F4-Namor team-up against Doom’s forces. Movie ends with Susan turning Namor down, Namor making his peace with Reed and Susan, and Reed and Susan getting together.

(3rd movie)

Now that Doom has been exposed as the previous movie’s villain, he is now the main villain of this movie. By this point, he’s become the ruler of a new Eastern European country that comprises of the old Sokovia, now named Latveria. His goal is to take down the world’s most powerful countries (namely Wakanda, Talokan) and harness their technology and weapons.

What is Doom’s motivation? To find a way to defeat Galactus. Although the F4 agree that they need to stop Galactus, Doom also has the ulterior motive of taking over the world/turning Latveria into the world’s most powerful country. He’s also destroying two whole civilizations in the process. So, another “ends don’t justify the means” situation.

Doom loses, but is spared because the audience loves Doom (let’s be real here). The F4 must now reform the Avengers in order to stop Galactus. This leads into the new version of Avengers 5 since the Kang arc has been abandoned for now.

Side note: As a build-up to Avengers 5, Franklin Richards (played by Xolo Mariduena) and Valeria Richards arrives from the future to help their parents. Because we can’t do a Fantastic Four movie without some whacky sci-fi shit, okay?

#marvel #mcu #fantastic four #the fantastic four #fantastic 4 #doctor doom #victor von doom #galactus #reed richards #mr fantastic #susan storm #the invisible woman #namor #johnny storm #the human torch #ben grimm #the thing #the avengers #franklin richards #valeria richards #xolo maridueña #talokan #Wakanda

[theshadowrealmitself]

It’s sad but the best version of Peter Parker to me (probably because it’s the most relatable one) is when he’s broke as hell, but at a certain point it doesn’t make sense for him to be such a genius without running a tech company, so here’s the bs reasons he’s still broke in the au’s I imagine:

He can’t partner up with anyone because everyone knows what happened with Dr. Connors, Dr. Octavius, and, depending on the au, Norman Osborn, which no one thinks Norman was working with Peter, but he is another person who knew Peter and became a supervillain

Essentially, everyone thinks he’s cursed™️

And he can’t sell any of his inventions on his own to start funding his own company because S.H.I.E.L.D. keeps getting involved and stopping it, both because whatever he creates works way too well and they don’t want it to fall into the wrong hands, and also because they’re all pretty sure that Peter’s gonna turn into a supervillain and they’re trying to stop him from gaining any power to do so

Also, because of all the above reasons, and because the best Peter Parker in my opinion is one that’s tired, snarky, and has a bit of an anger problem, that along with his genius, accidentally has everyone convinced he’s a supervillain in the making, the very specific dynamic that I picture Reed Richards having with him before he finds out he’s Spiderman is:



Peter Parker reminds him of Dr. Doom, he’s got the smarts, the anger, he’s a loner, and the way he commiserates on everything stopping him from achieving his goals (that famous way he blames his Parker luck on everything), just all reminds him of Victor, back when they attended college together

So he doesn’t get Peter to work with him, although he’d make such a promising mentee, cause he doesn’t need to accidentally get another supervillain to declare war on him, but also because he reminds him of Victor he can’t stay away, wanting some version of him to “see the light”

So occasionally he’ll begrudgingly team up with Peter Parker and the entire time he’ll awkwardly preach the merits of using science for Good™️ and how following villainy will only leave a person feeling empty inside, as his way of having a second chance at reaching Victor before he becomes Dr. Doom

Peter, meanwhile, has no idea this is how Reed sees their interactions, he’s just so happy whenever he gets a chance to work with one of his science heroes (then his identity eventually gets revealed and Reed has no idea how to view Peter)

#Spiderman #spider-man #spider man #peter parker #reed richards #mister fantastic #victor von doom #dr doom #nobody else sees their dynamic the same way I do and that makes me sad #also I haven’t actually been keeping up with the news but apparently they’ve cast Reed Richards #saw that rn as I was typing this #wild #low key inspired by this one fic I read forever ago where a section was from victor’s pov and he was so annoyed that Reed had money #while Victor was struggling #and he was stuck on how much more he could dedicate himself to science if he didn’t have to worry about money #and I was like ‘this pov kinda reminds me of Peter’ #so yeah turned into this #Peter Parker reminds Reed Richards of Victor von Doom before he became Dr Doom #curt connors #otto octavius #norman osborn

[bebx]

Reed Richards and Victor von Doom walking in the rain together

Reed: I don’t like it when it rains because when it stops raining, there’ll always be dead worms on the pavement and that makes me sad :(

Victor:

Reed: if you were a worm, I would gently pick you off the pavement and put you in the greenest grass so you could thrive and be a happy worm :)

Victor: …

Reed: if I were a worm, would you let me die on the pavement, Victor?

Victor: if you were a worm, I would step on you

*Victor ended up apologizing to Reed 20 minutes later because he made Reed sad, and he had to reassure his enemy, Reed Richards, that he would, in fact, pick him off the pavement and put him in the grass if he were a worm

inspired by this post

#doomreed #reed richards #victor von doom #fantastic four #fantastic 4 #mister fantastic #doctor doom #julian mcmahon #ioan gruffudd #mr fantastic #dr doom #marvel #mr. fantastic #dr. doom #reed richards x victor von doom #victor von doom x reed richards #reed x doom #doom x reed #reed x victor #victor x reed #meme #memes #ff #f4 #mcu #marvel cinematic universe

[doctorofmagic]

TW: racism, antiziganism, whitewashing, uses of g slur, fatphobia, misgendering, ageism, toxic fandom, long post.

This post is a bit off topic but, as someone who has been following Marvel’s comic book industry for almost ten years now, I feel like it’s my duty to use my voice and not be quiet about the blatant shit show that is happening to a character that is also a member of the magic community and has been suffering a lot lately in the hands of people who have little to no regard towards her heritage.

It was just a rumor back then (and Donny Cates even denied it in the past) but it does seem that Feige is using the MCU to influence comic books in most recent runs, ESPECIALLY regarding certain characters.

Now, let’s be honest. This is not new. We all remember when the cast of the Fantastic Four reboot died in a explosion in the pages of Punisher #12, eight years ago. A clear retaliation at the movie and FOX’s terrible decisions. We all know that this is probably the reason why the first family book was cancelled as well. The group remained in the shadows and only Reed had a decent spotlight thanks to New Avengers v3 and Secret Wars, disappearing next along with Sue, the kids and the Future Foundation. They only returned fully with a new volume in 2018, and most fans’ dreams and hopes slowly died out with Dan Slott’s bad takes and writing (erasing Franklin’s X gene, putting three women to fight over a man, reversing Infamous Doom to his villain self and throwing away his character development just because he wanted Victor as a villain etc etc etc).

Very well. Still, the FF survived. No one reversed Galactus into a cosmic cloud. No one turned Victor into a metallic guy with electric powers who wanted to marry Sue (thank the Vishanti). And whatever happened in the reboot (which I didn’t watch) certainly wasn’t adapted into comics.

Now, don’t get me wrong. I’m not here to gatekeep comic books. In fact, I’ve been committed to introducing them to my followers since day 1 on this hellsite. Unlike many fans, I didn’t grow up with them. Movies had a huge influence on me and I had a long journey. Movies and animated TV shows are part of the reason I dove into this universe, in the first place. Which is fine. I can take a bad adaption and move on.

What I can’t take is what they’re trying to do with Wanda, because it reeks of racism.

The whole point of this new Wanda volume is to give her the proper representation and atone for the years of colorism, a systematic problem that keeps happening in the industry. Just because she was portrayed as white in the past, it doesn’t mean she’s not a woc, especially when it’s said in canon that she has dark skin. There are plenty of roma people talking on this matter and how it’s meaningful to acknowledge that Wanda is brown, even when white roma people exist (1, 2, 3, 4).

The crew is in fact very committed to it, as stated by Steve Orlando here:

Now, what is happening to the new Scarlet Witch volume? Two things. The blatant whitewashing in variant covers and their need to push the MCU into 616!Wanda, first by introducing Darcy and now deaging Agatha.

Let’s be clear. There was a MASSIVE effort from the team to portray Wanda's heritage, which has been constantly dismissed by the lack of effort from the artists.

Here’s one example, from Jeehyung Lee, tracing what I think is a k-pop singer (but I don't really remember her name so correct me if I’m wrong). In any case, she was traced over a korean woman. This is not the first problem with this artist since he also made the same with Storm’s model in MFF by tracing Charlize Theron over Ororo.

In addition to anti-blackness, this is also an issue of interchangeable ethnicity, the same that happened to America Chavez, when she’s established as Puerto Rican, not Mexican, as the pin on her jacket suggests (and yes, her cast is also filled with anti-blackness. Nothing against Xochitl, but I touched this matter before when I wrote about DSIMOM. And yes, TAO’s MCU is also bad, very bad, very very very bad).

I just keep seeing this over and over again. You shouldn't be defending her whiteness. You *SHOULDN'T*. Unless you have a problem that Wanda is a brown romani woman. It’s imperative that people understand that representation matters and poc have been time and time whitewashed in this very same industry (Sunspot/Roberto da Costa is just one example and was also whitewashed in that terrible New Mutants adaptation).

The issue here is to push a problematic and harmful portrayal of Wanda on her comic book version. And it’s only happening to her due to the popularity of said character and artist.

More thant that, her stans ARE using Olsen’s Wanda to shield racism. Some of you are actually not even hiding it. The following is a list of racist comments and accounts. I’ll leave them under the cut in case people don’t want to see it.

Regarding the WV variant cover for Wanda #3 by David Nakamura:

And plain racism overall:

On a side note...

Just today I was harassed by this troll here. And no, I’m not hiding your @ because you went to MY post and felt compelled to misgender me, be fatphobic and also god knows why felt entitled to call Wanda ableist (????)

As I said, I didn’t grow up with comics. When I first met Wanda, I didn’t know she was neither Roma, Jewish or brown. And this itself is a problem because it should be clear, it should have been portrayed in the comics, it should have been common knowledge. All it takes is just to listen to people and understand the systematic racism and whitewashing in the comic book and cinema industries.

They ALWAYS double down on Wanda’s whiteness. No, darling, it’s not okay to stan two versions of the same character when time and time the marginalized one is a target of racism. When they weaponize every single attempt at calling out the harm that MCU has caused on her character to the point of even using reverse racism, ableism and many other blatant lies to slander 616!Wanda, when her MCU can do pretty much whatever she wishes because she’s white so that’s okay. And don’t even dare bring feminism here because you don’t care about woc. You only care about white women.

In any case, I just want to shed light on this matter because this effort of pushing MCU into comics isn’t happening to any other Marvel character, ESPECIALLY when the change is for the better. Wong is powerful, body-positive and having more than one-dimensional relationship in the MCU. Where’s the effort to do that in comics? Layla is literally the best part of Moon Knight. Where is she?

Why they want so bad to push a white woman on a book that is supposed to praise Wanda’s romani heritage? It’s obvious that they want to sell and some execs are siding with the portion of this toxic and racist fandom.

Comics are not perfect, we know that. But there has been a huge effort to support the marginalized voices in this industry. Marvel’s Voices, pride and heritage are all examples. Besides, they’ve always been political. Always.

What they’re doing to Wanda is evil and lazy. As an artist and colorist, it’s YOUR DUTY to search and at least be aware of what characters you’re trying to conceive. There’s no way variant artists didn’t see the main cover for issue #1 by Dauterman.

This is not just ignorance. It’s a statement. A statement that it’s okay to ignore a marginalized group and its attempt to give visibility to said group. And Orlando knew that when he said he didn’t have control over the rest of the creative team.

It’s fine if the MCU wants to push some elements like they did in the past. But this is not just any element. It’s harmful and I’ll not be quiet about it. 616!Wanda is getting more and more marginalized, whereas her whitewashed version is praised and loved. And now there’s an attempt at reconciling both as if it was okay. It’s not. MCU!Wanda doesn’t know racism. MCU!Wanda joined Hydra. MCU!Wanda has the privilege 616!Wanda could never afford for being a brown roma woman. And now the racist fandom wants to claim both in order to erase 616!Wanda’s heritage and history of fighting racism.

All I can ask is, if you’re buying this comic book, DO NOT SUPPORT the variant covers. Let them rot. We know the racists are not supporting the book anyways. They’ll just buy the variant cover and that’s it.

PS: I’m not Roma so feel free to correct me in any aspect. Just using my voice to boost awareness.

PS²: Olsen stans DNI or else will be blocked at sight. I’m done with every single of you.

#not tagging #read the tws tho

[blue-lantern]

Going slightly insane about blorbos again, but people on Twitter were discussing Mark Waid’s depiction of Doctor Doom again. Waid’s depiction is notoriously uncharitable to Doom, even by the typical standard of him being a narcissistic dictator and it’s always been pretty split between people who like his depiction of Doom and those who don’t, but I’ve been thinking more about it and I think I just fundamentally disagree with Waid’s take on Doom’s motivation.

Waid has written about the angle he took on all the major FF characters while he was writing his run, and he describes it as “whose entire motivating force is jealousy” and I actually disagree! Like yes don’t get me wrong, his jealousy of Reed is one of his defining traits, one of his defining motivations, if he’s trying to kill the FF it’s because he hates Reed. But he also just has other things going on. Trying to get his mother back is most prominent, but I don’t think him staging a coup and becoming Latveria’s dictator has very much to do with Reed personally. Doom faced extreme oppression growing up because of his class and race, he lost basically everything, in a telling of his origin he essentially becomes Robin Hood in Latveria, scamming the rich to give to the poor before he comes to America on a scholarship. He had already been subjected to the things that would warp his views, he’s full of righteous rage because of it and a lot of that narcissism seems to come from that taste of power he got from his intellect while justified trying to survive. To me his obsession with Reed reads as a symptom of what was already there, not the driving force, and that’s the thing that makes it tragic and not just petty (though it’s also that).

#doctor doom #victor von doom #blue speaks

[atopvisenyashill]

I don’t get how you’re a Rhaenyra fan but a Dany hater 🤨 like Rhaenyra committed a lot of atrocities in the end.

I don’t hate Dany! She’s smart, she’s funny, she’s got some of the best magical scenes in the series - she’s got some of the best scenes in the series, period, her last dragon fever dream in agot is like top 10 for me easy - and she’s a character that is conceptually similar to like, theon or ned or cersei in that she is really firmly rooted and informed by her past traumas, and I love characters like that from a writing standpoint. I have definitely talked more negatively about her bc it’s basically impossible to not be constantly inundated with takes i feel are just the most vapid or deranged or whatever takes in the world, but you can say that for anyone who feels anything at all about dany bc she is a very polarizing character! i think some of her narrative is frustratingly written, i do not mesh well with a large section of her fanbase, and i actively hate her show counterpart, but show dany is a vastly different character than book dany is (i mean just age alone, like with robb and jon, some of your sympathy evaporates bc they are too damn old to be acting this stupid). ultimately, a lot of the "hate" people think i feel for her is directed at what i feel are stupid opinions on her character or her show counter part's place in pop culture, or just like, normal analysis and critique that i do of every character in this series.

i will acknowledge that i tend to describe myself as "pro stark, pro blacks, pro smallfolk" so people know the general gist of what they're signing up for when they start interacting with me, but that is such a simple way of diluting all of my feelings for all of these characters. like "pro stark" in the sense that they are the most rational of the leaders we get in the main series, and have a connection to the land, people, and culture that is important, but i've pointed out plenty of times that robb's war is harmful to the people of the riverlands, regardless of whether he's justified or not, and i've been posting about how ned and cat fail to properly prepare their children (and the north in general) for Real World Politics, to the detriment of their kids. "pro stark" in the sense that i thought show dany wasn't just deranged from season 1 she was also wildly unlikable and nauseatingly stupid, you could see her "dark dany" turn coming from a mile away because these were not subtle writers interested in exploring why dany would decide "dragons plant no trees" and instead focused on her looking hot while she set shit on fire (same way they were less interested in looking at why jon failed as lord commander and had him be the action hero fighting at hardhome). definitely most of my aggravation at "dany" is at the show version, and while i do get why people feel that if you're a proponent of the "dark dany" theory that you're "anti" dany, but I am not anti book dany! i just think like rickon stark, shireen baratheon, jojen reed, aegon vi, etc she is very much doomed to die a very tragic death.

and i do not like characters based on how little atrocities they commit lmao, like, if i were to list my top 10 favorites, probably half of them have committed some extreme war crime. theon is a rapist! jaime is a shitty ass partner to cersei, a deadbeat dad despite living in the same building as his kids, and a failed child murderer! bran is mind raping hodor, understands on some level that what he's doing is morally repugnant, and keeps doing it anyway! pretty much every targaryen i like has committed some sex crime heinous enough to get them life + 25!! bobby b raised joffrey!!! i know i facetiously say shit like "rhaenyra did nothing wrong" but i'm well aware she's out here torturing people, same as like 75% of the characters we interact with in the whole series. so "rhaenyra commits atrocities" or "dany commits atrocities" is just not how i look at these characters (and not to get into stan wars here, but good lord, "rhaenyra commits atrocities" she is not the only or even the worst person in the dance! like 85% of these people suck and the ones who don't - which is limited to like, helaena, jace, nettles, and addam almost exclusively - either die or disappear because That's The Point. also, i was raised SDA alright, you gotta be a really compelling character for me to get past being super catholic, it's in my dna to be a spiteful hater of catholics!! catelyn stark is my one exception to this rule folks!!!!).

as to why i like rhaenyra - for one thing, saying that emma d'arcy is a better actor than emilia clarke is like saying cillian murphy is better than bradley cooper. they are just not on the same level lol. i definitely have my critiques of show!rhaenyra's writing but i also think she's miles better written than show!dany and her story is also more interesting because her writing is much less nonsensical. for another, i think book rhaenyra and book dany are wildly similar characters (for a reason!) meant to be in conversation with each other, and i very much enjoy what that conversation is saying about power, nobility, gender, sex, war, and identity. on a more technical level, while fire and blood is a mess writing and world building wise, the one thing it does better than the essos chapters (because it doesn't take place in essos, it takes place in westeros, and george struggles much less fleshing out "western poc" than he does "eastern poc" ya know) is that rhaenyra is not the only insight we get into the conflict. the people she loves, the people she rules, the people she harms, they all have a pov and a voice in a way that missandei, irri, jhiqui, rakharo, jhogo, grey worm, on and on, do not, the way that basically every single character that isn't westerosi except mmd (who was killed in book one) is not afforded. it's just a lot easier (as of right now) to talk about rhaenyra as a character because we have her beginning, middle, and end and the povs of people who hated her vs dany, we have the beginning and middle, a lot of arguing over what her end will be, and no one in the narrative as of yet who has even the barest criticism of her decisions besides cardboard cut out villainous slavers.

so like...no i do not hate dany, and i don't feel it's necessary to asterisk every post about rhaenyra with "i know putting a hit out on nettles and addam, locking the smallfolk into KL without easing their burdens of the war, positing herself as an exception to male line primogeniture instead of pushing for absolute primogeniture, and using torture on tyland and vaemond's family was fucked up, i acknowledge that she's flawed" when i talk about her, nor do i feel the need to defend my position on dany on the off chance one of her more annoying stans finds my posts and decides i hate women because i said i didn't like her sexual relationship with irri.

#asks #anons #anti daenerys targaryen #i tag 'anti x' so people can filter the posts out. like i have 'anti x' tags blocked bc some of the opinions of my moots annoy me alkjdfs #but i otherwise love and cherish those moots ya know!! with very few exceptions i don't actually hate any of the characters. #they're deep! they're well written! they feel very real! it's not 'anti' to think a character who burns people alive is a villain tho!! #grrm critical #fire and blood critical #f&b critical #i can't remember what i tag that as #i hope this rant makes sense #anti game of thrones

[linkspooky]

Thanks for your response to my ask on antagonists that weren’t really villains now I don’t read that many x men comics so I don’t really know that much about magneto aside from the basic(backstory goals etc) so what about magneto is “always right”

(P.s to keep thing’s balanced I’ll elaborate on my side if you don’t want to read it you can ignore this part of the post.

(Doom is an interesting case where you could argue that the villain is more heroic than most of the heroes themselves and that’s due to his goals and the fact that when he succeeds it’s almost always for the better dooms goal is to take over the world so he can make it into a better place and when he does it actually is a better place a prime example is his hometown of latveria because when he other throws the previous king it becomes the closest thing to a perfect place you can get there’s no crime no disease no poverty and it’s run by a pretty reasonable schedule during his brief stint as iron man almost all crime in the world dropped either due to him or out of fear of him even Stan lee argued that doom wasn’t really doing anything wrong(wanting to rule the world mind you) and his hatred for reed Richards is pretty justified when you think about what doom has done and that reed is smarter than him and hasn’t done what doom has)

No, I agree with your argument anon, Doom is a way more compelling character than Reed Richards.

(Sadly the only comics I've ever read with Doom in them are the distant epilogue of Spiderman 2099 and Young Avengers the Children's Crusade, neither of which I think are good examples of his character).

However, I'd say that Magneto is the hero of his story for basically the same reasons that you listed Doom as the hero of his. You know how you listed all of those super compelling character traits for Doom, and then Reed Richards is kind of just a jerk.

That is essentially the same as the Magneto and Professor Xavier rivalry. Magneto's one of the most compelling characters in comics driven by his overwhelming empathy for the suffering of his people and then Xavier is just kind of a jerk.

If you know Professor Xavier and what he's done at all it's hard to consider him a good guy even if you find his ideals more agreeable and less extreme than Magneto's. Xavier is a manipulator and a groomer, basically raising the students at his school to be tools to his political agenda even though they're literally just kids.

Things Xavier has done:

Once reprogrammed an amnesiac Wolverine's brain into thinking he came to rejoin the X-men in Wolverine Origins #29.

Designed a bunch of robots called the Xavier protocols to kill his students if they ever got out of control.

Literally joined an organization called the illuminati and plotted to kill Scarlet Witch once among other things.

Literally erased the memory of Scott's brother from his mind. Like. Just made Scott forget that he had a brother to cover up the mistake he made when he sent a team on a mission to an island and all of them died with the only exception being Scott's younger brother Gabrielle.

This isn't to knock on Xavier's character. All of these things are what make Xavier interesting, because the Xavier and Magneto rivalry blurs what the definition of hero and villain is. He's also I think a pretty realistic depiction of what I think someone with Xavier's mutant abilities would act like, giving that much mental power to one person would be too tempting no matter how good your intentions are.

#askspookies #this is spoken as an xavier lover here #dude is so shady