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#anti aou
gay-jewish-bucky · 11 months
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People who read Steve's worst nightmare as "aw his worst nightmare is he can't go home with Peggy 🥺"/"his worst nightmare is living in the present" make me insane.
Like no, his worst nightmare is literally him giving up the fight (not just the physical fight, but fighting at all, because even if Steve retires, Steve would still fight for people) for good and settling down into the life mid-century society and the public expects of Captain America.
You know, like his ending?
Also btw the scene was originally supposed to be about Bucky and iirc was supposed to deal with his guilt over what hydra did to him, but Joss hates Bucky so he put P-ggy in there instead, so maybe read a little deeper.
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musclesandhammering · 5 months
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On Narrative Bias
I keep saying it annoys me how Wanda has done so many evil ass things and is never held accountable for her actions, and it never fails that someone tries to respond with “but aren’t you a loki stan? He’s done evil shit too! So you have a double standard and are a misogynist!!!!” Yeah, no. The difference is that you can clearly tell who the writers have predetermined as a hero vs a villain. You can tell who they want you to root for. Loki’s actions are given narrative consequences as harsh as possible, while Wanda’s are narratively excused and softened and sympathised. Let me show you what I mean.
* Loki commits treasons, tries to kill his brother & attempts genocide -> Loki’s father rejects him while he attempts suicide
* Loki tries to conquer earth -> Loki is sentenced to life in prison
* Loki incapacitates the king and secretly takes the throne -> Loki is threatened with a hammer to the face, we’re reminded how awful he is by all the other characters for the rest of the movie & he would’ve faced more consequences if the apocalypse hadn’t interrupted
* Loki steals the tesseract from the vault -> Loki watches his brother be tortured & then has his neck snapped
Now compare that to…
* Wanda willingly signs up to work for a nazi organisation, tries to help an evil robot murder the avengers, intentionally sets the hulk loose on a town of innocent people, & helps destroy Sokovia for a lil while -> Wanda gets a fatherly pep talk from Clint & is immediately accepted as an Avenger
* Wanda accidentally murders a bunch of people while on a mission -> Wanda is put on temporary house arrest in a giant mansion with her boyfriend
* Wanda buries her boyfriend/teammate under like 10 floors of concrete, breaks out of house arrest, & goes against a government order -> the leader of the superhero team defends her, a grown ass woman, by saying “She’s just a kid!”, she’s detained in a government prison for like a week maybe (?) during which she’s shown as a sad helpless victim to encourage sympathy from viewers, & then she gets busted out by the ex-team leader & eventually gets to run off to Scotland with her boyfriend
* Wanda holds an entire town hostage & tortures them just to fulfil her own grief-fuelled fantasy -> one of the women Wanda attacked reassures her that she’s the actual victim in all this and that the people she tortured just have no idea what she’s sacrificed for them & she escapes to an isolated location to read a forbidden demon book and make herself more powerful without anyone interfering
* Wanda goes on a serial killing spree across the multiverse, kidnaps a child, holds her hostage, tortures her, & attempts to take her powers all so she can steal another Wanda’s children because she misses her children that were never actually real in the first place -> Wanda gets some badass power sequences and #girlboss one liners, is the one that destroys the demon book, essentially saving the multiverse from future corruption, & is allowed to die a hero’s death (which we all know isn’t permanent)
See the difference?
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tincanmans · 2 years
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“how DARE tony call wanda a weapon of mass destruction when he built weapons for so long” that just means he is the most qualified person to assess the scale of potential destruction lol
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amarriageoftrueminds · 2 months
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Joss Whedon giving advice about the creation of MCU Peggy to the guys in charge of writing CATFA? Why does that not surprise me? This is the same guy who changed Wanda and Pietro's ethnicity for the MCU also...
I didn't know that but it doesn't surprise me, either! See, now all I can see is him wanting to do yet another superpowered teenage girl and give Wanda some River Song/Dark!Willow from Buffy vibes while casually destroying the comics source material to do it. 🤦‍♀️
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sukibenders · 2 years
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Why does the MCU always write mcu!Wanda's storyline having her go after poc? Like....Marvel, what the hell?
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recent-rose · 1 year
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i feel like ive failed in life to be marvelposting in the year almost 2023 but like tony stark really died as he lived aka not taking responsibility for any of his mistakes. man went so far as to DIE to avoid having to look people he wronged in the eye. ctfu
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tsukushicakes · 2 years
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Hate the MCU's plot writing? Watch EMH.
Hate the MCU character writing? Watch EMH and AA.
Hate that MCU Spider-Man is not what you expected? Watch Spectacular Spider-Man or SMTAS.
Hate the MCU's writing of the Multiverse? Watch Into the Spiderverse.
Hate MCU's treatment of Tony Stark? Either watch EMH or Iron Man Armored Adventures.
Marvel Animation supremacy.
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woulddieforloki · 2 years
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fuck professor hulk all my homies hate professor hulk
this post was sponsored by the Smol Nerdy Bruce Banner Fanclub
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kyliafanfiction · 1 year
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When it comes to the bomb that killed Wanda's parents and/or the dud that traumatized her, I'd also like to point out that given the time frame (1999) and that it was a civil war it it almost certain that the weapons were sold illegally by Stane. And given that this is less than a decade after Tony took over SI and Stane didn't go under the radar for that long by 'misplacing' the brand new bombs designed by the new genius CEO, the bombs in Sokovia were probably older stock designed by Howard Stark or some other SI weapons designer. So it's likely Tony didn't even design that bomb.
Quite plausibly, yeah.
I do think that's all almost certainly the case (and why oh why could this never have been brought up onscreen, at all?) but the real issue is that even if Tony did make it, even, hell if he had sold it to someone in Sokovia (which, yeah, he wasn't doing), there's only so much blame that he specifically, or even his company in toto, deserve.
Wanda's response was insanely over the top, even if she was right about who made the bomb. Unless Tony Stark personally flew the bomb into her parent's house or something, none of her behavior is even 1% justified.
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vee-nyx · 2 years
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OMG how did i just realize that in the age of ultron scene where wanda shows everyone their worst nightmare steve literally sees peggy…one of us
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miss-nadias · 1 year
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speaking from a place of privilege (favourite character who is dead so the MCU can't fuck them over)
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gay-jewish-bucky · 11 months
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seb cancelling everything including a convention appearance and flying cross country to film a tiny cameo in ghosted with chris confirms what i've always suspected: marvel saying they gave his part in aou to peggy because seb was "busy" so couldn't film a short scene was bullshit
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ai-dont-care · 2 years
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Esperanto only having like half vocabulary and then having the other half just be antonyms is very funni to me
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phoenixyfriend · 1 year
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[squints at the MCU] Tony Stark has displayed more ability to weather interrogation and torture than Steve Rogers.
This is "(displayed more)(ability)," not "(displayed)(more ability)," to be clear.
(I know fiction’s depiction of torture is famously propagandafied, but in this case, it’s not about torture for information so much as physical traumas shown on screen.)
(Anyway, have a rant I did on discord the other day.)
It's not really so much about "resisted the urge to hand over information" as "survived a truly harrowing experience and still came out of it trying to do good."
Tony's very first movie involves getting repeatedly drowned while in constant pain from bomb injuries as a civilian contractor, and I… don't think I can remember anything even a little similar with Steve
I don't think he's ever been captured for long before breaking out? All his injuries are in active battle, not torture.
Like... Steve went through something horrible with the ice and losing Bucky, nobody can argue that. But I think it's very telling, sometimes, that movie Steve, especially 2012 movie Steve, is completely unaware of the absolute nightmare that Tony experienced in his solo movies.
I have so many feelings about Tony Stark being the epitome of "guy who was raised and manipulated into being a bad person by someone he trusted, and (after a horrible experience) attempts to be a better person, constantly and consistently, even if he sometimes fucks up in the execution."
And the way that some fics elide his experiences in cleaning up other people's messes (first Obadiah's, then Howard's) and how that doubtlessly compounded his many neuroses from fixing messes that he did actually create himself is just
I have a lot of feelings
And am also feeling a little bitter and salty about how Tony Stark's MCU incarnation reportedly took some inspo from Elon Musk... and a little petty and satisfied about just how drastically we've all be shown that Musk can never live up to the idea of 'billionaire with inherited wealth who actually, without hesitation, risks his own life to save millions' that he tried to use PR to achieve in the media with 'my electric cars are gonna save the world' stunts about things he didn't actually have a hand in inventing
I'm just reading some fics I really enjoyed when I was still in the YA fandom, and there was a reference to a line Steve said in the movies and I started thinking (again) about how frequently fans take lines from Steve or Sam about Tony as gospel, because they haven't seen Tony's movies, and the lines from the star spangled boys are contextually meant to show that they don't know jackshit about Tony or his life, because they are directly contradicted by multiple prior films.
Also like... how often Steve's traumas get explored (in fic) in a way that Tony's just... don't? At most, his issues about Howard get explored, but that's it.
There's this moment in CACW that people take as Accurate and it infuriates me.
Tony Stark: [Back in the cell.] Just look. Because that is the fellow who was supposed to interrogate Barnes. [He shows a holographic image of Doctor Broussard.] Clearly, I made a mistake. Sam, I was wrong. Sam Wilson: That's a first.
Which, like... it's a bad movie. Obviously. But also
That line is immediately followed by Tony revealing that he's here to help the others and is sabotaging the security to make sure Ross can't take advantage, and yet fanfic still uses Sam's quote to promote anti-Tony agendas!
And 'Tony admits he fucked up' is. Like. Listen to me
Tony's first solo movie is fixing Obadiah's machinations. *
His second solo movie is fixing his Dad's fuckup.
His first team movie is fixing Thor's mistakes.
His third solo movie is fixing something that is only tangentially his fault.
It's not until AoU that the fuck-up is really his and his alone (well, not counting Bruce), and even then, even then, a massive portion of the blame is narratively laid at Wanda's feet!
And only then do we get this man, who has spent five movies seeing what happens when people don't take responsibility for their actions, or have anyone riding them to be ethical, who has criticized himself for neither having that oversight nor providing that oversight for people who snuck shit under his nose, that is when we get Tony weighing in on the side of "most countries on the planet are agreeing with this and it's for a reason, please work with me here, maybe we can get some of it rolled back to be less authoritarian and more reasonable."
* and removing himself from the military industrial complex he was raised and groomed to be in, but that's a system and not an individual act or a set 'villain'
Or as @firebirdeternal put it:
I would say that his first solo movie does have a large element of fixing his own mistakes too, it's just that his "mistake" was Trusting the Wrong Person and not taking personal responsibility for how his actions are affecting the world. (Which, he immediately does upon coming back from being captured? "We're going to immediately stop making weapons, because it's making the world worse" and then when Obadiah cuts him out of the company he goes "Oh. Okay no that didn't work, have to personally fix all this then.") and yeah it's just Tony have plenty of reasons to be on the side of "Someone needs to have oversight over this"
IM1 is such a good exploration of someone in privilege saying "this stops now" in a situation where they do have control because they have been confronted with their mistakes in a way that's unavoidable
It's also like, a great example of the fantasy of the Super Hero. Because Tony Stark, the businessman, even with all his wealth and knowledge, isn't able to stop the systemic harm being caused by His Own Company. One person isn't able to do that, even with the best of intentions. It isn't until he becomes something else, something more, a Super Hero, that he's able to make any kind of meaningful change on his own. Like IM1 is just a phenomenal movie. It understood it's subject material so incredibly well.
And people skip it and then take Steve and Sam at their word about Tony's strength of character and moral convictions and I scream.
THIS MAN FLEW A NUKE INTO A WORMHOLE WITH THE FULL EXPECTATION THAT HE WAS GOING TO DIE
Yeah, like, that Jump on the Grenade mentality is something that he and Steve actually literally share.
They both had 'jump on the explosive to save people' moments in their introductory movies.
I find so much more strength and inspiration in stories like Thor and Tony, where they are inherently fuck-ups and were shitty people and they are trying so damn hard to be better, which is more Tony than Thor really, but both of them and their first movies are just. I find that more inspiring than Steve or T'Challa or any other hero who was already a good person and just Became Great.
Tell me about the person who has to struggle to find that moral choice. Tell me about Natasha dragging herself from her oceans of blood and Tony fighting the government over whether they have the rights to use weapons he's created and about Thor having to reckon with his family's power being born of imperialistic ravaging of other cultures.
I want to hear about the people for whom being good is hard and a choice they don't have to make, but then they make it anyway.
Also I stand by "I am Iron Man. [infinity snap]" being the most amazing bookend the MCU could have done and probably the best part of the Endgame.
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The Russo brothers prove how someone can just as easily ruin a character by favoring then too much and put them on pedestal. Because both Favreau and Whedon probably would have just made Tony wrong in civil war
At least in AoU the characters are allowed to speak up, I can think of two or three scenes where Steve says what's on his mind, Thor gets mad at Stark and characters like Wanda and Pietro mention his past as a war profiteer. The movie could have been more openly against Stark but I understand it's an Avengers film and Whedon chose to focus on the entire team instead of writing an anti-Stark story.
But if you compare that to CW and EG the differences are... stark (hehe sorry, couldn't help it). The Steve from AoU wouldn't have stayed quiet during Stark's Hydra speech in EG, for instance. And that godawful scene where Ross is trying to manipulate them would have had the team standing up for themselves instead of looking down like defeated puppies. And Wanda would have said something about Sokovia instead of the narrative treating her like a villain while Stark gets to wear a fancy suit and pretend to care about a kid who died during the battle while not mentioning Pietro at all.
They probably realized how much of a leftist Steve was turning out to be, especially post-TWS, and they got worried about it so they chose to kiss Stark's ass and not only did they refuse to keep developing his character but they turned him into a poster boy for American exceptionalism with no redeeming qualities at all. Seriously, after AoU, is there anything good about Stark? Anything at all?
Not to mention we don't know his actual role in CW, we don't know why he has any kind of authority at all regarding the team or Wanda or even the Accords, he solves time travel like it's no big deal (but we couldn't have too much Carol because she'd be too OP, right 🙄).
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Feelings on Steve getting called a fascist in AoU?
mine are so mixed like, yes AMERICA is, but Steve doesn't deserve it either especially when CERTAIN CHARACTERS never get called out the same way
Yeah it's the usual conflation of Steve with America (as if he's one of the national personifications as seen in old political cartoons, like Britannia, Marianne, or... the Statue of Liberty.) Very unfair. If he'd had time to think of the repercussions, I'm sure Steve would've put his fut down and wouldn't have let them dress him up as a figurehead to begin with.
Britannia, speaking of characters who never get called out! 🤬
It's very on-brand with Sokovia being framed as a former Soviet country tho (w/ a legacy of being officially anti-American.)
What's interesting is that Hydra has a nearby base dropping missiles on Novi Grad... and when Iron Man appears to try and warn the locals they attack him... and when the city falls out of the sky killing Zemo's family (because he's just sitting there on his ass watching other people die) he blames... the Avengers, and not the Hydra base that was the reason it's all happening there?? That's on-brand with the Sokovian establishment thinking America=Bad. And I guess it makes the Maximoffs nonconformist, if they're watching American sitcoms.
But as far as I can remember... they never actually explain who the Sokovians think is dropping missiles on them and why.
Do they think it's America, since it's a Stark missile? Why would Wanda remain fond of sitcoms from the country that bombed her parents? If it's supposed to be the Soviets dropping those missiles, why would the Sokovians dislike America, Russia's enemy? Shouldn't they be welcoming the Avengers, then??
That film is a fuckin mess, honestly.
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