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courseyoulovemeyoudontknowme · 3 months

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Glory (1989, Edward Zwick)

24/01/2024

Glory is a 1989 film directed by Edward Zwick about the first volunteer fighter unit formed by African Americans in the United Army during the American Civil War.

The film is inspired by the personal letters of Colonel Robert Gould Shaw, who led the 54th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry Regiment from its formation in February 1863 until the attack on Fort Wagner in South Carolina, where he died during the assault in July of the same year.

Among the awards received, the film received five nominations for the 1990 Oscars, winning three as best supporting actor for Denzel Washington, best cinematography and best sound.

On September 17, 1862, during the American Civil War, Captain Robert Gould Shaw was slightly wounded during the Battle of Antietam and returned home to Boston on medical leave. During a ceremony in November of the same year, he met the abolitionist Frederick Douglass and at the request of Governor John Andrew, accepted the task of training and commanding with the rank of colonel the first regiment of African-American men of the Union Army.

The men are informed that due to President Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation, the Confederacy has declared that all captured black Union soldiers will be returned to slavery and the white officers under their command shot.

In the subsequent clashes, the regiment gained the valor and respect of the white soldier and Shaw proposed himself to General George Strong as the first attack force on Fort Wagner, as part of the campaign to secure the port city of Charleston.

The officers are aware that breaking the fort's defenses will not be easy; in fact the fortress had previously been attack by a white regiment but without success (First Battle of Fort Wagner). A front-line force of the 54th, with supporting white companies, begins the Second Battle of Fort Wagner.

The film budget was $18 million and filming took place in Georgia and Massachusetts from February 9 to April 27, 1989.

Rotten Tomatoes indicates that 93% of 40 selected critics gave the film a positive review, with an average score of 7.9 out of 10.

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jaybeewriting · 3 months

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Chapters: 1/1 Fandom: Black Sails Rating: General Audiences Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply Characters: Captain Flint | James McGraw, Original Characters Additional Tags: American Civil War, flint becomes a ghost, he's fighting empire, even if that empire has another name, The original characters are not important Summary:

On the edge of a battlefield in the American Civil War, Captain James Flint's war continues, just as it always has.

#black sails #black sails fanfic #captain flint #American civil war #short story #original characters #first fanfic #yay I'm writing #posting things on the internet is good motivation #I am going to be productive

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filmcel · 8 months

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saddest thing ever will always be Christian bale being British

#he just looks like he’d play such a good civil war American hero w that stupid fucking beard…#SORYR #captain’s log

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araiz-zaria · 11 months

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Drayton on Grant

(from Barratt, Peter. Farragut's Captain Percival Drayton)

They got along well 🥰, and as Drayton attested here, he was all well and sober during his final pursuit of Lee in VA in 1865.

(Transcript under the cut↓)

Another consequence of Drayton being without assignment was that he had time to take a closer interest in the army, a service he had previously had harsh words for. On the morning of March 16, he spent an hour at Grant's headquarters and reported the general as saying that once the roads dried sufficiently to permit active campaigning, "Lee's army would be non est in a week." Drayton found Grant “quite pleasing, and with as little appearance of a man who drinks as any one I have ever seen ... I judge that he is now at least a sober man." Not renowned for his verbosity, Grant on this occasion proved an amiable, relaxed, and chatty companion,

#not art #percival drayton #ulysses s grant #american civil war #taken from...#farragut's captain: percival drayton #to be sure this was in 1865 #percy got no assignment so there he went to grant's HQ 😺#also... grant's ultimate vice was not ethanol It Was NICOTINE 😤🙄💀#union navy #union army #american history

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harleyification · 2 years

Conversation

Tony: Don't worry about the kid man, he doesn't bite.

Steve, looking at Harley: Are you gonna bite me?

Harley: Oh I'm definitely going to bite you, man.

Steve: He lie?

Harley, holding up a Drill, Menacingly: He lie, I'm gonna bite you.

#The minute Harley sees Captain America it's ON SIGHT #ESPECIALLY Post-Civil War #Harley: I grew up with this man being shoved down my throat as to what it means to be Southern and American #Harley: AND HE ISN'T EVEN FUCKING SOUTHERN #My Source: Funny Vines #Harley Keener #Tony Stark #Steve Rogers #MCU #Marvel #Just silly shenanigans in the Avengers Tower

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gojifan97 · 2 years

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An idea I had for a Civil War era Captain America.

The face is based heavily on Joshua Chamberlain.

#captain america #american civil war

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obtener2 · 10 months

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"Captain Abner Doubleday is the man generally regarded to have fired the first Union shot of the war from Sumter. The New Yorker would eventually rise to the rank of Major-General of volunteers during the conflict. He later described the circumstances surrounding this ‘first shot’: As I was the ranking officer, I took the first detachment, and marched them to the casemates, which looked out upon the powerful iron-clad battery of Cummings Point. In aiming the first gun fired against the rebellion I had no feeling of self-reproach, for I fully believed that the contest was inevitable, and was not of our seeking."

[source https://irishamericancivilwar.com/2012/07/20/identifying-the-irishman-who-fired-the-unions-first-shot-of-the-american-civil-war/ The article continues with an account from Private James Gibbons, Co. E 1st U.S. Artillery: "Captain Doubleday stood two feet behind me as I held the lanyard, and at his command I pulled it. It was a good shot, for it struck the wall at the Point."

A Family and Nation Under Fire #iBooks https://goo.gl/SAVc8A #nook https://goo.gl/DSQXGu #Amazon: https://goo.gl/A3brGd KSU Press http://goo.gl/Z3z4Xs

#doubleday #captain #fort sumter #american civil war #photooftheday

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insufferableprotagonistpoll · 2 months

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Propaganda why Tony Stark is insufferable:

>Makes weapons

>Billionaire

>Made multiple AI Surveillance Robots

>Gaslight a child into fighting a super soldier in a foreign country for him

>His fans are annoying

Portrayed as a hero because? He chose to no longer mass produce war weapons and bombs after suffering the consequences. Huge hypocrite. Doesn't care about anyone but himself. Will backstab people if they believe in human rights when it's inconvenient to him. Seen as a hero while he's the personification of privileged people saying they're not privileged

There’s the usual “he’s a war criminal who only felt bad about it when he realized his weapons were killing white Americans as well as Arab people” reason, and also he’s just super annoying. You had to be there for the original Avengers shitty dialogue a la “we have a Hulk” that had Tumblr in a vicious chokehold. Also he was supposed to FINALLY go away after destroying all his suits in Iron Man 3 but he just… didn’t! Which is bullshit.

Tony is so annoying. When they first meet he straight up bullies Peter into fighting for his personal bullshit, insults and objectifies Aunt May in front of him, spits into his trashcan and is in general being pushy af. He blackmails Peter when he doesn’t wanna come to Germany with him AND HE DOESNT EVEN EXPLAIN WHY HE WANTS HIM TO COME. Uncomfortable vibes lol.

Tony being the one to tell peter “if Captain America wanted to hurt you he would’ve” when Peter was trying to state his case, yet HE’S also the one who put Peter in harms way when he didn’t even want to go with him???

Telling Peter that he should stick to being a “friendly neighborhood Spider-Man” (stealing his thing once again) when that’s what Peter _was_ doing before Tony took him out of his zone and filled his head with grander things to be apart of….bitch? Die. Ohh waaaait (jkjk) but yeah

Super long, sorry lol

Thinking about how in Homecoming when Peter accidentally caused that boat to get split in half because the Vulture’s gun exploded and Tony was acting like as if Peter was completely in the wrong for going there just because he did it without his permission. He was acting like as if Peter was out of line and “disobeyed him”, trying to act like his father. And then I remember how in CACW he’s the one who scouted Peter in the first place just because he saw he might be useful against a personal squabble between him and Captain America despite knowing that he was a kid and he’s just now acknowledging how dangerous it is because Peter “acted on his own”

Completely hijacking Peter’s superhero story and trying to control his every move (Training wheels protocol and baby monitor thing he put in the suit), acting like Peter should’ve known that Tony would send someone in despite the fact that he’d been ignoring him for 2 months since Civil War and not keeping him updated on anything!!

How the hell is peter supposed to know Tony is going to listen to him when he treats him like a kid instead of a superhero when it’s convenient for him? And when Tony loses his temper after Peter says he’s 15 not 14 like “the adult is talking” bitch he could literally flatten you without your suit!!!

I guess in a way he is acting like a father but like the absentee kind. He’s more like a sperm donor father trying to act like he has any rights over Peter’s life smh.

It’s not that reprimanding Peter for the situation is bad, but the way he makes it seem as if Peter is irredeemable as if Tony wasn't a literal weapons dealer lmfao. He could’ve said what was the truth about it without completely invalidating him saying shit like “no thanks to you” after Peter asked if everyone is okay when it’s literally thanks to Peter finding a lead on those guys in the first place that they were even noticed and it’s not like the FBI being there could’ve in no way caused a similar situation.

And then near the end of the movie when he’s getting crushed by the building rubble screaming and crying for someone to help him where the fuck is Tony?? That scene just proved that he never needed Tony’s suit in the first place to be Spider-Man since he had to use 100% his own strength to lift it off of him. I know he would’ve found the motivation even if Tony hadn’t been involved in the first place to give him the suit, take it away from him and have the words “if you’re nothing without the suit you shouldn’t have it“ echo in his head. Why did Tony even take the suit away? Like as if he expects Peter to stop being spoderman without it??? Holy fuck. This is why you don’t make it out of endgame /j /srs.

When Tony took this suit away from Peter he was like “God I sound like my dad“ shouldn’t that be a red flag to him? Wasn’t he literally just saying that he wished his dad was better than he was?? Lmfao

Propaganda why Victor Frankenstein is insufferable:

Victor Frankenstein is so pathetic not even tumblr could love him. The best parts of Frankenstein are the ones where your blessedly saved from being in his whiny, self deprecating, self centered pov. He’s so conceited that when his creation tells him directly “In revenge for killing the wife you were making for me I’m going to kill YOUR wife to see how YOU like it!”, Victor Frankenstein thinks that the creation is going to kill him and *only* him. (A decision And on top of it, he’s a shitty dad. Truly the worst.

this fucker has zero self awareness, which could maybe be fun to read about! except that 3/4 of the book consists of him constantly woe-is-me-ing about his own mistakes and how he shouldn't be responsible for any of his own actions.

He's not irredeemable, but his refusal to take accountability til it's too late is irritating

#tony stark #mcu #victor frankenstein #frankenstein or the modern prometheus #insufferable protagonist poll #insufferable protagonist tournament #tournament poll

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endless-ineffabilities · 18 days

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The Bolter (part two)

Steve Rogers x f!reader

synopsis : Steve carries out his decision to return to Peggy, aiming to live out the rest of his days with her. But this means he's leaving everything behind - he's leaving you. Did he make the right choice? Will there be anything left with you to come back to?

in this chapter : Steve tries to settle into his life in the 50s, and we get a glimpse of the days when Steve and the reader were getting to know each other post Civil War.

themes/warnings : pining, unrequited love, Steve beginning to regret his decision (he just won't admit it yet), the NSFW stuff won't happen until after a whiiiile, this is a slow burn (y'all can blame Steve!!)

word count : <2k

masterlist ▪︎ previous chapter ▪︎ next chapter

The 1950s, one month after Steve's arrival

Peggy knows about you. It doesn't take her long to figure it out. What started out as the mystery figure her partner seems to be so wistful over - as time passes, the idea of you becomes stronger.

It takes shape, like you are not just a memory to be gotten over.

You're there, in their very walls, but you're not. Of all the people Steve left behind, your shadow looms the strongest over him.

"She must have been special, Steve. She sounded like a very dear friend," Peggy expresses, one morning over breakfast when they were going through the people in Steve's future.

Past, to be more apt. All those people are no longer going to be a part of Steve's days. You no longer will be.

He thought he would be fine with it all, treating it like the end of a book. This is his fresh start with Peggy, a chance to simply live his life without constant threat of impending doom.

That apple pie, white picket fence, American dream. He wants to have a son and a daughter. Maybe he'll even name them after you and James.

The two most important people in his life then, reflected in the children whom will be his reason for existence.

Everything should be just perfect.

So why isn't it?

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2017, eight months after the Avengers' Civil War

Being on the run was brutal, but familiar.

A year ago, you were made to choose between the two sides in the Sokovia accords, after your old friend Natasha pulled you out of your over extended holiday.

She wanted you to join her side, Tony's side. They could use all the help they can get to fight Captain America who apparently had gone rogue.

Little did she know that you would end up fighting with him instead, after you found out what his motivations were.

After the war, yourself and all those who acted against the accords were branded enemies of the state. Incidentally, this included Nat, who also had a change of heart.

Captain America - Steve - broke you out of a maximum security prison, and you all branched out in different parts of the world to go into hiding.

At first, you and Nat went to her safehouse in Budapest. Then to one of your apartments in Malta. Eventually, you had to separate to keep the trail cold, and to confuse anyone at your tail.

Which is how you ended up in some remote cabin in Alaska with none other than Steve himself.

And you got to know each other really well.

He was closed off at first, maintaining a sense of cordiality that must come as second nature to him. It was evident that the Civil War took a toll on him. He had an anger, a resentment about him that wasn't there when you first came across him in Romania. When you decided to cross over and aid in his cause.

For the first few weeks, he kept his distance, merely keeping up with what's required of a fellow lodger on the run. He made sure there was hot coffee left for you when he brewed a fresh batch. He was always quiet in his room across the hall. He would say his polite good mornings, his how are yous, before taking his daily walk in the woods, scouting the area for any potential anomalies.

It took a while before he stopped being just Captain America in your eyes, but inevitably, you grew to know Steve Rogers.

And you came to fall in love with him. But you didn't admit this until much, much later.

You're not sure which one of you broke first, but eventually the polite, little greetings turned into breakfast conversations, eventually incorporating comfortable inside jokes.

You discovered that he had a myriad of questions about your chosen life, how you ended up working for The Agency. Much like the Red Room but without any ties to a particular government, The Agency specialized in producing highly-skilled individuals when it comes to combat and covert operations.

For a while, it was your MO to make sure that the widows were unsuccessful in their missions which involved civilian casualties. So you first encountered Nat when the Red Room gave her the task to take you out, but you were too wily and evaded her at every turn.

At some point, and to both yours and her surprise, you actually ended up becoming friends.

You could tell that Steve was holding back in commenting on your choice of profession, but he wasn't really in any position to judge - America's former poster boy turned into their number one fugitive. He wanted to suggest that perhaps there was a better life out there suited for you, one that didn't require you to constantly look behind your shoulder.

But how could he? You were there because of him. In a way, his rebellion pulled you out of your momentary pocket of paradise.

You told him you had retired before Nat called you in, but of course that wouldn't have lasted long. One way or another, you always found yourself back in.

Like you were craving it, almost. Or because you had nothing else but this life. This was your normal.

"What do you think it would look like, if you actually had a shot at normal?" he asked, the glowing embers of the fireplace dancing shadows across his face.

You observed him, and you couldn't help but note how impossibly good he still looked even with his facial hair unkempt and grown out. "What I think it would really look like, or what I would want it to be?"

The corner of his lips raise at your statement. You were right. For both you and him, what you want is almost never what you can get. "Either way," he shrugged.

"Well," you paused. You knew you were stalling, but you didn't really know what to say. "I guess... there was a time when I used to want the normal life. You know - a partner, kids, a lakeside house with a nice backyard, maybe a dog."

"What kind of dog?" he asked suddenly, distracting you.

"Oh, uhm, I like German Shepherds."

He smiled, "I like them too."

That one remark was enough to make your imagination run wild. He likes them too, he said. What must it be like to be with Steve, to live in a lakeside house with him? Enough, you quickly reminded yourself, stop before you get hurt.

You must have been staring at him then, because he casted a gentle glance at you, saying, "Keep going."

You found yourself continuing with more ease, "I never really had a whole family. Only lived with my parents for a time, didn't have any siblings. So when - if, and that's a big if - I do have kids, I'd want more than one. So they would always have each other, you see."

When you looked back at him, his blue eyes were arresting, almost like they're boring right into you. Captain America is trying to get a good read on you, and you feel like you're laid bare before him. But it's not a discomforting feeling.

Maybe it's just the effect Steve has on people. Or maybe it's you. You weren't ready to accept just how much you already took a liking to the Captain America. You just knew - it would not end well.

These things never do.

But then he said, "When you do manage to have all of that, will you send me a postcard? Let me know how you are?"

Your smile widened at his sincerity. He wasn't just playing along, indulging in what you think are just delusions. He actually meant it. "Steve, you'll always be welcome at our lakeside house, you know."

"Our?" he smirked.

"Yeah, well," you leaned back at his implication, but his expression is enough to warm you all over. "I... I meant, mine and my partner's or... mine and my dog's, I don't really know - "

He laughed lowly, the sound hearty and deep in his chest. "I understand what you mean," he said, before adding, "although, I definitely wouldn't mind sharing a lakeside house with you."

"And my dog," you added jokingly, but your pulse had already quickened.

He nodded, but he wasn't finished. "Could be my dog, too." You don't know whether to be grateful or disappointed that he didn't say, and our kids. Grateful, you decided. It had to be that. You were getting too ahead of yourself.

You agreed, playing along, "As long as I get to name him."

"Of course, doll."

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The 1950s, two months after Steve's arrival

Steve decides that he would get a dog.

It's about time, he believes. He's always wanted to do so anyway, and what better time than now, when he is settled in a good home base with a lot of backyard space for the dog to roam around.

He wants to get a German Shepherd, and it's fine, because Peggy does not really have a preference.

It is the evening before he is scheduled to visit the animal shelter, when Peggy asks him if he has decided on a name for the dog.

He startles at that, looking up from his plate. He barely registers her hand that has been caressing his own throughout dinner. Steve, being Steve, immediately feels ashamed at how he doesn't seem to be present and appreciating the moment.

"Have you thought of a name?" Peggy tries again.

A name, he ponders. No, he always thought he would leave it up to you.

"I'll figure it out," he says after a while, taking Peggy's hand and bringing it to his lips.

Everything will be perfect.

Read part three here.

taglist: @vicmc624 @littleliyah16 @babezawa @klammykayla @justsebstan

caution: this is will be the slowest burn, and even MORE angsty when things come to a head.

the next chapter will be from the reader's POV and how she's coping...

Are all of these dog shenanigans alluding to how the reader will walk Stevie boy like a dog??? *evil, maniacal laugh*

Taglist still open!

#steve rogers imagine #steve rogers x reader #steve rogers #chris evans #the avengers #captain america #mcu

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stairnaheireann · 2 years

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#OTD in 1862 – The Irish Brigade suffered over 60% casualties at the Battle of Antietam at an area that came to be known as Bloody Lane.

At the Battle of Antietam, the Irish Brigade led its division in attacking the infamous Bloody Lane. In preparation for the deadly work ahead, Father William Corby, one of the brigade’s chaplains and future president of Notre Dame, rode down the firing line and administered a general rite of absolution to the men. Thomas Meagher advanced to the crest of a hill overlooking a brigade of North…

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#69th New York Militia #American Civil War #Bloody Lane #Captain McGee #Confederates #Father William Corby #Fighting 69th #Gen. Israel Richardson #The Battle of Antietam #The Battle of Antietam Monument #The Irish Brigade #Thomas Meagher #Unions

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innerslumber · 1 year

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I went to the Marvel: Universe of Super Heroes exhibit and wanted to share for anyone who has not seen it. I am under the impression that the installation changes from location to location so I wanted to show this snapshot in time. I fully admit to being biased in what I will post so if you want to see a particular character, please let me know! Apologies ahead of time for my crappy photo taking skills.

🔵⚪️🔵⚪️🔵

Steve Rogers (Captain America)

The whole tour started off with Steve featuring immediately. You can see Captain America all throughout the exhibit but in the room that was more focused on him, Steve was sharing the space with Sam and Bucky.

The picture above was from a small monitor showing different designs and CGI work. I particularly loved this concept sketch. The extra long eyelashes are on point. 👍

The iconic comic cover of Captain America punching Hitler was one of the first items shown in the exhibit.

I thought it was interesting that half of Steve’s plaque was about Bucky. 🤣🤣🤣

It was honestly a bit intimidating to stand beside the uniform. Chris isn't the tallest of the bunch but still plenty tall! It just felt really impactful. This was worn by him in Age of Ultron.

The urge to smash and grab this was very strong. 😝😝😝 I loved the "As wielded by Chris Evans". This particular shield was used in Endgame.

Steve's various interactions with American presidents. Bush Jr. criticizing Steve for resisting against the Superhuman Registration Act which led to "Civil War", makes me even more glad that I was always Team Cap.

But maybe more importantly:

OBAMA WAS THE ONE WHO PARDONED BUCKY IN THE COMICS?!?! HOW DID I NOT KNOW THIS BEFORE???

The Tesseract. Without the CGI for the glowing blue, it was mostly just clear. But still very cool.

I admit I am not that knowledgeable about the comics and seeing this "Cap's Kooky Quartet" made me go on a Google info hunt. But basically the other Avengers are tired and abandon Steve to go on vacation and without his knowledge, hire the "New" Avengers line up of Clint, Wanda, and Pietro...who are at this point newbies and basically criminals. From what I gather, it was a lot of bickering and shenanigans (Clint calls Steve "Glamor Pants"!!). I found this incredibly helpful post to explain the dynamic and also please look at this adorable picture of Dad Steve and his Misfit Kids.

The exhibit ended with the gift shop and I had to ask myself, "Do I REALLY need a soup bowl shaped like Steve's head?". He was definitely the character the most heavily present in merchandise! I was tempted to buy this Marvel cookbook but I do think it was a missed chance for Steve. I mean, okay, I get it. The beef tongue as a nod to living through the Depression. But I would have made corned beef tongue in an acknowledgment to his Irish roots. Just my two cents. 😘😘😘

This is just a small sample of Steve in the exhibit and this post would have gotten way too long if I tried to fit it all! I had a lot of fun and I'm so glad I had a chance to see it!

#steve rogers #captain america #chris evans #Marvel: Universe of Super Heroes #mcu #marvel #comics #costume #bucky barnes #clint barton #wanda maximoff #pietro maximoff #cap's kooky quartet #I just love Steve so much

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funnypages · 4 months

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So the MCU Secret Invasion show has a ton of issues, but to me I think it helped expose the general rift I think there is between comic readers who have read about Maria Hill and fans who only know her from the MCU

Because here is the thing, while we can talk about if this was fridging, its became apparent to me reading some reactions that people sometimes have a hard time separating their headcanons/assumptions about Maria vs who the actual character is. Like I've seen people also call her death burying your gays (Maria is not gay in the MCU or the comics, and frankly I think people need to remember neither is Colbie Smulders) or complaining that they had a "Canadian" character's coffin draped in an American flag (Again, in the comics Hill is American. Colbie Smulders has dual US Canadian citizenship)

Here is the thing about Maria in the comics. She was created to be an antagonist, and a very darkly gray morally character because Nick Fury had become too chummy with the heroes over the years.

Here are just SOME of the things Hill did in the comics

Arranging for a camp to be bombed in the Savage Land, to cover up rogue SHILED agents being involved in arms dealing. Said evidence she knowingly destroyed included Salvage Landers being used as slaves by the agents

Helped kick off the Civil War by trying to have Captain America arrested for violating the Registration Act, BEFORE it had been signed into law

During said Civil War ran a superhero Guantanamo Bay in the Negative zone, where those interned there were slowly turned crazy by the effects of the Zone

Also during the Civil War created a division of Shield to hunt down superheroes that got nicknamed "The Capekillers"

Once captured Spider-Man and had SHIELD psychics mind rape him to pry Avengers secrets from him

Created ANOTHER secret prison where prisoners where mindwiped to live in a Pleasantville type town

And in the MCU she was....Nick Fury's second in command who he talked to for 2 movies (Avengers and Cap 2), and then was in about 2-3 scenes of Avengers 2 before disappearing from the MCU for nearly a decade.

Again, we can talk about how badly she was treated in Secret Invasion, but how much of the love for this character comes just from the fact she was played by Colbie Smulders?

#maria hill #colbie smulders #marvel #favorites #nick fury #secret invasion

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luna-rainbow · 1 year

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Ross’s quote about the Avengers ignoring sovereign borders comes up a lot and is often used to accuse Steve of American imperialism, so let’s have a look into it.

You've fought for us. Protected us. Risked your lives. While a great many people see you as heroes. There are some... who would prefer the word "vigilantes". What would you call a group of US-based, enhanced individuals, who routinely ignores sovereign borders and inflict their will wherever they choose and who, frankly, seem unconcerned about what they leave behind them?

Sooo. Civil War was a terrible piece of world-building. The first problem is that it came way too early in the franchise, not just for the fracture between Tony and Steve to be anywhere near meaningful, but also the number of missions preceding this that would actually fit Ross’s accusations.

Let’s look at all the MCU movies so far leading up to Civil War:

Iron Man 1-3

Captain America 1-2

Thor 1-2

Ant-Man

Avengers 1-2

Hulk

(Guardians of the Galaxy)

Cap 1 took place in WW2, Cap 2 took place mostly on US soil, with the exception of the Lemurian Star which was a SHIELD mission. Thor wasn’t part of Civil War but he was dealing with extraterrestrial threats that came to Earth. Avengers 1 similarly - the only time the team was out of US was to confront Loki in Germany, and again that was under the supervision of SHIELD. Ant-Man also happened in US territory.

The only person on the team who “routinely ignores sovereign borders and inflict their will” without any oversight was Tony. He did it in IM1 against the Ten Rings. In IM2 he opens the movie with:

I'm not saying that the world is enjoying its longest period of uninterrupted peace in years because of me (...) I’m not saying that Uncle Sam can kick back on a lawn chair, sipping on an iced tea because I haven’t come across anyone who’s man enough to go toe-to-toe with me on my best day.

It is implied - the showing was done in the first movie - that Tony continued his "peace-keeping" activities which consisted of zipping into other countries and blasting everything with fire.

Never forget that even Rhodey assessed Tony as:

As he does not operate within any definable branch of government, Iron Man presents a potential threat to the security of both the nation and to her interests.

Operating outside the law was started by Tony, not by Steve or any of the other (original) Avengers, most of whom were working for SHIELD until they had to bring it down themselves to stop Hydra from killing millions of people.

The narrative problem lies in the vacuum between Captain America 2 and Captain America 3. Avengers 2 deftly avoided discussing who was overseeing their operations, and by the time Cap 3 rolls around they're suddenly a privately operated group of vigilantes?

Speaking of Avengers 2, that's the time someone decided to make a “global peacemaking initiative” without involving his team, much less the global community.

Bruce Banner: So you're going for artificial intelligence and you don't want to tell the team.

Tony Stark: Right. That's right, you know why, because we don't have time for a city hall debate. I don't want to hear the "man was not meant to meddle" medley. I see a suit of armor around the world.

Tony knew the ethical implications and the risks of this but forged ahead anyway. Said murder-bot went all over the world intent on human extinction while the Avengers tried to chase him down. We can argue over whether it was appropriate for Avengers to intervene with Ultron before waiting for the UN to have their emergency committee hearing in 3 days, but I think the key is the Avengers risked their lives to tidy up Tony's their own mess, which is what accountability and dealing with the consequence is all about.

And that's the crux of Steve's argument, which I think a lot of people gloss over.

We are (giving up) if we're not taking responsibility for our actions. This document just shifts the blames.

The Accords passes the buck upwards to the UN…this means both the decisions and the responsibility for the decisions go elsewhere. The situation that riled Tony up in the first place was a mother telling him “I blame you” for Sokovia. Assuming we ignore Tony’s role in creating Ultron, how would oversight have changed the situation? They wouldn’t have been able to create Vision off the cuff, nor would they have been allowed to recruit the twins. The people in Sokovia? Would still have died, and likely far more of them because of a slower response.

But what Tony is saying is if they had oversight, the mother wouldn’t have marched up to him and blamed him. Or as Steve points out, he could shift that blame onto the UN.

Steve’s version of accountability is about taking ownership of their mistakes and finding a solution. Tony’s version of accountability is having someone else make the call and take the blame. (* I feel like this is a thing a lot of people - often young - get confused about. Accountability isn’t just about having someone telling you what to do. Some people and some organisations find themselves in the rare position of having no direct oversight, but they still need to have accountability measures in place - look at the UN Charter for example)

Going back to my original point, the only one shown to routinely ignore sovereign borders and inflict his will wherever he pleases was Tony. The one operating outside government sanction for the majority of his appearances was Tony. The one actively seeking out “criminals” and trying to “win a war before it starts” has always been Tony. Tony might not be the one wearing the red white and blue but he’s the only one gloating about having done the job for “Uncle Sam”. The greatest advocate for American imperialism was Tony, not Steve.

#anti tony stark #anti tony stans #steve rogers #meta #long post

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