#mary sue problems

[xinambercladx]

Fanfiction Pet Peeves, anyone?

Please, comment or re-blog your pet peeves in fanfics or writing in general. I REALLY would love to read them. Give me some juicy cringe. Here's 5 of mine. 1) Overused phrases: "Raised a brow", "Scrambling for purchase," "orbs".... did you just flinch? Yup. Me too. Here's another. "As if his hands alone could claim her by right" has been used for over a decade in countless fics. Eyebrow raising isn't too bad, but it is when overused. Other phrases however, I will drop dead before they appear in my fics.

2) The Void, aka Lack of Setting: The characters stand in a void. A good stage play can have great plot and character design, but it still needs a set. I read a book once where the only description was the planet was a rainy mudball and there was a river and a forest... that's it. For 300+ pages. Fanfics are guilty of this too, sometimes. Give me something to imagine. Let me see what they're seeing, feeling, smelling etc. Setting doesn't distract from progressing the story, it enrichens it and can even influence it!

3) Poorly Planned Arenas: A gunfight is just another gunfight in fanfics. They all blur together. I usually skip over them. "He shot at them, and they fired back. He ducked under cover" blah blah blah. Where the heck did cover come from?

Describing the setting provides the arena. How would those characters' tactics change in a garden, using massive fountain in the middle as both cover and an obstacle? It'd be a ring-around-the-posey fight with whoever runs and shoots faster around it is the victor.

4) The Walking Contradiction OC: We all know the typical Mary Sues, like the pretty/ugly girl, the walking pheromonal sexpot, etc, but there's one popping up lately that I can't stand even more. This is where the author explicitly states, "oh, she's wearing a sexy dress, but is still classy" or "She's demure" but then tries seducing someone in the next paragraph. Talk about whiplash!

In Halo: Hunters in the Dark, the author Peter David did this with one of his side characters. The Spartan Kodiak (if I recall correctly) was described as "the silent type" and "Didn't talk much", but for the rest of the book Spartan Kodiak was THE biggest chatterbox of the entire squad. Just... why? I think I would have enjoyed the banter rather than be annoyed by it if that single descriptor had been deleted beforehand.

Here's the doozy: 5) Character Personality Swap Disorder: A character that exists only in name but the author fails to write them in-character for various reasons.

---- Type A) The Boromir variant, aka, the Shell Character variant. Take only a few scenes of a character as headcannon and ignore the rest.

Back in the day of Lord of the Rings hype, Boromir was the antagonist in 7 out of 10 LotR fics. He was one in a way, but only when his goals were in opposition to the Fellowship out of duty to his over-demanding father and when succumbing to the Ring's temptation. Writers would ignore his heroism, friendship with the Hobbits, and noble desire to do right by his people. Boromir in fics would be written only as a jerk, an attacker, with zero of the redeeming qualities he actually had.

---- Type B) The Imposter Variant, aka character assassination. You've seen this one, I'm sure. Where the author has a character and proceeds to write the character completely out of character. This could be from dialogue to behavior or even reactions. Author writes, "It's me, I swear! See, I have his face!" Reader reels back, "I don't know who you are anymore!" The best example in mainstream media is probably Ralph's drastic change from Wreck it Ralph to Ralph Breaks the Internet. I won't go into detail here, but youtube has several deep dives into this.

My particular grievance is actions or reactions. A brave character suddenly shaking in fear when they'd normally be pissed and want to kick ass. Smut is especially guilty of Imposter variants, but that's an animal I won't touch with a ten foot pole.

#orbs #writing pet peeves #fan fiction pet peeves #writing mistakes #how to write #I avoid these like the plague #mary sue problems #provide a setting #overused phrases #if i read one more time i swear #Youtube

[itsraining-honey]

my first pumpkin latte post and its her literally in peril with her (its complicated) boyfriend and his adventurous friends 😭

#i have SO MUCH more art and lore of her but idk how to put it all together y’know? #my biggest problem is trying to make it correlate to canon without making her seem…idk…mary sue-ish???? #anyways PUMPKIN LATTE COOKIE YAYYYYY #pure vanilla cookie #pumpkin latte cookie (oc) #oc x canon #gingerbrave #wizard cookie #strawberry cookie #shadow milk cookie #cookie run #cookie run kingdom #crk #beast yeast #fanart #cookie run oc #oc #art

[gooboogy]

(image ID in alt text)

My TMA oc "The Witness" I don't have a name for him yet but he's a servant of the Eye and he's a serial chronic statement giver. He's just always around witnessing things to bring back and give a statement for. He is obsessive about being a voyeur, to the point that he even unsettles Elias (who he's INFATUATED with)

I don't think he has like eye observing abilities, but I think he's able to just be in the middle of situations and influence people to want to let him go as a witness of their atrocities. He gets nightmares still after giving statements but rather he has a lot more autonomy than Jon does. He gets to experience the horrors again as well as Jon's horror, a little bit of eye powers cannibalism as a treat. He also adores Jon, really he loves loves anyone connected with the eye but especially other avatars.

I wanna say he has some sort of avatar immortality too, but also I think that if his eyes get taken he just dies, like he's just dead. Any other part of him can heal. If he has one eye then he can regrow the other. But also you just reeeallly want to show him something and let him go.

Anyone he Witnesses won't have nightmares but they'll have daymares. Any time they lose focus and start to drift off Suddenly they are Being Watched and those memories resurface, always following them, keeping them hyper vigilant. Eye with a dash of lonely and distortion

#“to know you is to love you” #tma #the magnus archives #ocs #tma oc #goobarts #yeah he looks like milo from atlantis #he was inspo #bottle episode where Jon cannot take getting another statement from.him so he runs to hide in Elias's office #elias is also avoidong him so he allows this lol #i have the opposite problem of making mary sue ocs #i have too many thay are just Normal Men that are Odd lol #the wetness #when he sees Elias lol

[yourocdoeswhat]

*raises hand* if we're getting rid of the term mary sue i propose we throw out "tumblr sexyman" along with it. its 2023 time to stop shaming people for loving specific fictional characters

Hm!

I know exactly what you're getting at. I had a conversation with a friend recently, where I was talking about how my DnD character would be seen as a mary-sue since she's the daughter of some powerful archfey and has multiple love interests, and he said 'Oh my dude's a tumblr sexyman for sure' because he's a tall white guy with a tragic backstory who loves blood and knives.' Both terms would really reduce our characters down to just bare minimums.

If your character is called a tumblr sexyman, you presume he's (usually) a tall, white, skinny, conventionally attractive man in a suit, sometimes of a character who isn't human-like. Ala: Onceler, Sherlock, Loki; Wheatley, Bill Cypher. It's largely seen as an archetype and a meme. And that's gotta suck, to make a guy who fits a certain image and then have him be treated like a joke.

Speaking from experience, it's hard out here for a Mary-Sue lover. You don't see a Mary Sue poll, or Mary Sue being used as a meme. Mary-Sue used to just mean a woman character who steals the spotlight in bad fanfiction (which I disagree ever needed mocking in the first place. Fuck the haters, how else can writers learn?) But now people use it to refer to any competent, smart, beautiful, or just annoying female character.

It's really unfair to people just having fun.

#personally i love a mary-sue who's hypercompetent and the most powerful person in the universe #but she just fails at interpersonal skills and doesn't understand you can't cast beams at your ex boyfriend to solve your problems #while im here i should put some stuff in the queue

[emdotcom]

Some people on this planet continue to react to other people w/ some shit like "This cave belong to Gubgar!! Nobody else allowed in Gubgar cave!!!!"

You're not a caveman. This isn't preschool. The world isn't yours, in any capacity. Learn to share.

#gale chatter #this is abt like exclusionists #this is abt old metal heads that police what is & isn't metal (spoilers: anything made by poc or women isn't metal to them) #this is abt ppl getting mad that a song they like became more popular suddenly (as if that's a problem?) #this is abt tumblr users acting high & mighty over this garbage site like they're champions of the last bastion of the internet #this is about the weird energy around ocs & mary sue type characters like it matters. like you lose something when other ppl are having fun #this is abt terfs & truscum & transmeds & people who won't use it/its or neopronouns when it's not difficult #we built a world where all this is fine & common. well that's dumb #pls feel free to rb x3 #this is also abt anti-homeless & anti-bird architecture #& all the many ways the government finds to exclude people it values as sub-human.

[selenekallanwriter]

When I see people complaining about so-called Mary Sues, this is what I imagine them being like:

#creative writing #women in movies #writing memes #Mary Sue is a sexist term and you can't change my mind #captain marvel #carol danvers #the marvels #rey star wars #this post came to me in my dreams #Maybe because I was thinking about the individual who called one of my heroines a mary sue #so I wrote a strong female character that intimidates you #I'll take that mary sue tag with honor #this is the way #do it like a girl #writers on tumblr #writing #writer problems #paranormal romance #urban fantasy #am writing #writeblr

[hyperfreaksating]

If someone is creating harmless content for free on the internet and you decide to shit on it publicly just because you, personally, don't like it I just think you're a very pathetic person

#as a professional author I love seeing people try to write or draw for the first time #yes even if it's the cringiest things ever #people who never wrote anything in their life are TRYING??? that's amazing #I'll support your mary sue x reader self insert for ever #you WROTE SOMETHING! you DREW SOMETHING! that's amazing and I'm proud of you 💖 #harmless part is important tho #proship fuck off #my comfort character is shipped by the entire fandom with a character I deeply hate you know what I do ? #I MUTE THE SHIP NAME #for fuck sake cringe culture is dead #rant #may I had that if scrolling through block of text you don't wanna read is your biggest problem I won't empathize

[empty-blog-for-lurking]

Thing is i would enjoy prickly asshole loner characters a lot more if the canon and fanon actually acknowledged the asshole part. None of this "oh he has a sad backstory so it is ok uwu" from either of them, i want the consequences, i want other characters to be uncomfortable or even angry about their behaviour and the narrative treating the others in the right and the fanon acknowleding it and not dismiss other character's frustration. Too bad this only seems to happen when said character is a woman, or a poc, or both. Like people forget "Asshole with a heart of gold" still is an asshole and not very likable one at that

#Like cc with Max and tma with every character and it with Lake and toh with Hunter handled it so well #(Jon and Hunter do get woobified in fanon though but other than that yeah) #But most of the time prickly guy becomes writer's self insert and fandom fave and then turn him into a really boring character #and destroy other interesting characters in doing so as well #People complain about Mary Sues but to me this is the most overrated character troupe #this is specifically about a certain fandom favourite character i really hate and want gone but i rather not say it #fandom stuff #fandom problems #fandom #empty thoughts

[mademoiselle-cookie]

Obi-Wan is a Gary-Stu?

This accusation really surprised me. How can we see this guy as a perfect and overpowered being? Annoying at worse, everyone has their own sensitivity, but that's not enough to make him a Gary Stu.

(Warning, what follows is only based on my memories. I can forget stuff)

Is he overpowered with the Force? It's never said or shown that he's special in that area, so he's at most just quite powerful. Nothing to do with Yoda or Anakin who are said to have broken records with their midi-chlorians, anyway. He's very good at animal and mind control, and never fails, but the only one it happens to is a Padawan.

Is he physically strong? Although he knows how to fight very well, he is only a simple human (just boosted by the Force). And from a lightsaber mastery point of view, even though he can take 2 Sith at the same time, he also lost several times against Dooku. And if he is obviously excellent with firearms, he uses them twice max (not counting the Kenobi series which I have not seen). Given his age, what little we see of his physical abilities clearly comes from his training and experience, not from an incredible innate talent.

Does he have a prestigious position? He is a Council Member, the governing body of the Jedi Order, but he is also not the Grand Master of the Order or the Head of the Council. Even if he looks younger than the others, it's never emphasized. And the Council itself is subordinate to the Senate. Even a young and kind Senator like Riyo thought she could give him orders as she pleased.

Is it particularly special? He is not the chosen one of a prophecy, nor the person the embodiment of the Force has chosen as his replacement, or the child of a being extremely powerful and important to the Force itself. He is not even the main character of the saga. In TCW, you really only see 3 of his men, very underdeveloped (mostly Cody), and one gets killed without us seeing Obi-Wan's reaction. Nothing like the 501st. Even though The Mandalorians were brought into TCW for storylines about him, his romance with Satine exists completely for Anakin and not for him. The only thing really special about him is how obsessed villains, and especially Siths, are with him (it's indeed one of the Sue's traits).

Do we particularly praise him? He's the only one I remember having a nickname in the movies/series, and his ship is named after him (again, that's the only one it's about. The others are values like the Endurance or the Resolute). But that's background. When it comes to characters paying him compliments, there are quite a few for someone so well-known. I remember Leia asking for his help in ANH, Qui-Gon in TPM (but he also criticizes him a lot) Anakin in AOTC (but same as Qui-Gon), and I believe Satine (but again she spends more time criticizing him and I think she mostly compliments his looks). On the other hand, there are times when praising him was possible, even logical, but completely missed:

in the Malevolence arc, everyone compliments Anakin for going to the enemy ship (while he's just fixing the consequences of his own decisions) but nothing at all about Obi-Wan following him (which everyone knows);

in the Umbara arc, the 501st compares Krell's incompetence to Anakin's skill, but no word on the only other Jedi on the planet, Jedi who loves and protects his men, Jedi who knows about the 501st and reassured blue virus survivors when their own General didn't care, Jedi who will lose one of his most known men for the public;

In Rebel, with the many, many times Rex compliments Anakin, Gregor could have done the same thing, he'd have better reasons to (and I would have cared about his death. I hadn't seen TCW yet at that time).

Anakin (who is admittedly the main character but above all a future Sith who is clearly on this slope apart in TPM) receives MUCH more praise.

Is he of prestigious descent? We don't know his family at all and he never talks about it (again, not seen the Kenobi series). I don't even remember his home planet being mentioned in movies and TV shows. As far as we know, his parents are absolutely nothing special. They are neither kings, nor senators, nor influential, nor rich.

Does he ever fail? Forgetting all about Anakin's downfall because it wasn't his fault, in TPM he lets himself be overcome by anger and grief and almost gets killed by Maul. In the AOTC, he is too arrogant and overprotective to trust Anakin and gets scolded for it. In TCW, he admits that he would have left the Jedi Order for Satine, he allows himself to be dominated by his anger against Maul again, and - even if it is understandable because it was deserved and that he was tortured mentally and physically for several days - the smile he threw at Rex before he killed the Zygerrian does not really fit in with Jedi values.

Does he have a perfect life? His people were slaughtered by his own student whom he raised, the galaxy he swore to protect applauded this genocide, those responsible for this massacre rose to power, his master, the woman he loved and a close friend died before his eyes, he ended up spending 19 years on a desert planet that was nothing, Bail Organa died along with his entire planet, and in the OT era he, Yoda and Luke were the last Jedi alive.

So no.

Of course, when you're next to the walking disaster that is Anakin, it's easy to look perfect (especially since Obi-Wan is literally the foil of Anakin, the example of what he should be or do). Add to the fact that he's played by a handsome, charismatic actor and the character is funny and calm, where main character Anakin was extremely embarrassing and creepy, the comparison stings and can make people who identify with the latter uncomfortable.

That doesn't mean Obi-Wan is actually perfect. He would not have needed to have development arcs in TPM and AOTC. And that's why we love him. Not because he's perfect (95% of people who say that are joking) and everything is easy for him, but because it's extremely, painfully hard. He tries. He always tries to be good, to do good. He always, always does his best. He's just a human, with flaws and selfish desires, which makes his repeated choices to stay on the light side, even after losing everything, even more beautiful.

#Obi-Wan is so full of love dammit #he suffered so much your honor #and he's still a good guy #But I guess the real problem with Obi-Wan #is that he's proof that a tragic life is no reason to become a villain #pro-jedi #in defense of the jedi #obi wan kenobi #star wars #anti anakin #anakin critical #prequel trilogy #mary sue #obi-wan is love #pro jedi #my post #jedi appreciation #obi wan appreciation

[elspethdixon]

Girls don’t want boys, girls want a live action Drizzt Do’Urden show staring Michael B. Jordan.

#drizzt do'urden #forgotten realms #aldis hodge plays jarlaxle baenre #the one problem is that now that we’ve lost Eartha Kitt we will never get the perfect Matron Mother Baenre of my dreams #she’s basically izma but an elf so who else could do her justice? #idris elba as faerun’s greatest dilf zaknafein do’urden #also it would have to have liriel baenre from elaine cunningham’s FR books in it #why limit ourselves to only one lawful good drow Mary Sue when we can have both?

[a-treatise-on-velociraptors]

Whenever people call the existence of female characters "woke" I just remember when I was a kid and I goddamn wished there were more female characters. Jedi, transformers, any 'boy' property I liked I wished there were more girls. I promise you, little girls don't see Rey and think "oh wow look at the feminist girlboss propaganda what a mary sue", little girls look at Rey and go "holy shit she's so cool"

#also I thought the star wars prequels fucking *ruled* as a kid which is why I will go to bat for them despite their flaws #i hate to admit but jar jar binks was one of my favorites and as an 8 year old I wished he had more screen time in AotC and RotS #and like. I for sure won't vouch for the quality of the sequel trilogy I think they suck ass #but I think Rey's 'mary sue' status isn't *close* to as big a structural problem as people say #maybe I'm biased though because she has a similar backstory to my own mary sue star wars OC as a kid #so I know I would have absolutely *loved* her

[nyonyia]

now draw her giving birth? fuck that

now draw her getting help. now draw her healing. now draw her having a better life... bitch

#honestly the obsession over women with Problems may come from people's misogyny #i love mary sues

[memento-mariii]

The way dudebros* will froth at the mouth and call her a mary sue any time a female protagonist dares to be competent or have any agency in her own story but then they turn around and go gaga over male characters who are treated as basically infallible by the narrative 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

(*oftentimes male, but actually gender neutral)

#9/10 this type of person has a problem with a ''mary sue'' #they would have lapped it up if she were portrayed/played by a man #it's never actually about being overpowered or having too few flaws or being favored by the narrative #because they LOVE that shit when it's about their male faves #it's not about bad writing either no matter what they say #because to these people ''having a female protagonist = automatically bad writing'' #sorry. sorry. I just saw a really bad take by a youtube essayist. #mmari rambles #mmari rants #negativity #fandom culture #fandom misogyny #okay to rb

[poicyss]

What is the general consensus on yandere again? I feel like it was super popular and you'd see it everywhere in like 2016 but then there was a period of where it was deemed problematic, and I can't remember exactly when or why. Did I make all of this up? Am I just crazy

#saw someone tag something as “yanderisms aside” and its been on my mind ever since #yandere is definitely a guilty pleasure of mine 100% but i also dont really remember whyyy im guilty? if that makes sense? #i dont remember half of people's problems with it is the main thing #so i can't remember if its bad because its tied to mary sues (not an actual problem cool even i love mary sues) #or something else actually bad (?) #idk #i like to think im a very conscious consumer im just also a hopeless romantic who likes love themed motivations #random rant sawry #yandere #yandere mention

[chitatochickenpotato]

tell me about atlas sew and his friend group 👹👹

I've had this story and these characters for 10+ years, the amount of inter-connectivity between everything is so hard to explain. If anything sounds unbalanced, feel free to ask about it because theres usually a reason that nerfs it.

That being said Atlas'(he/they) Mom was my first OC, she's basically my world's equivalent of a Dnd Champion she worships the deity of loyalty. She spends a lot of her story picking up strays and doing the whole found family thing (she later loops his father into this behavior as well) so his family is massive. And both his parents own the adventurers' guild so everyone he grew up around is like battle hardened and kinda reckless. As a result he has a weird "Nothing can hurt me, do you even know who I am?" and "I am intimately aware of how much effort and hurt it takes to succeed, with everything I do I will give back to my community as thanks for all the privilege I have" complex about him. He's also weirdly codependent in that he's never really alone so when he is he just kinda has no idea what to do. He's very much the "I know a guy" guy.

The Sew thing is actually because neither of his parents remember the names they were born with cuz they had to keep switching them. However his mother was known for fixing uniforms when she was in the army and making clothes n stuff for other revolutionaries n whatnot. So the name is kinda like John Smith in that the family name is just her occupation.

Atlas is actually inspired by Taliesin Jaffe because I watched his episode of between the sheets and was like yeah thats him. Specifically he has that like old soul kinda vibe you get when you're raised around people much older than you and have been to more funerals than you have marriages. He's not goth weird like taliesin but he's "I know too much and lack experience in all things" weird. He's also a history major which I imagine contributes to that. Atlas has grown up around people who have lived it and he wants to better understand them and their experiences.

He also has some disparity in being raised semi-noble because of his parent's strange governmental relations and also being babysat by adventurer's all the time. I imagine he kinda shifts rapidly between super well mannered and proper to being an absolute rascal.

Currently him and his gang are studying at a prestigious university I can't be bothered to name. He meets Aragon before joining the uni at a fancy party (both their parents are loaded [Aragon's through business and prolly blood money, Atlas's because the government wants them to stay in one place so they don't have to deal with the hassle of having slightly overpowered warriors on the loose])

Malachi and Oz are working under their mentors for a government sponsored project to make permanent portals through the planes. Atlas' family gets brought in because of the adventure guild thing and some of the failed portals keep spawning in monsters. So he meets those two through that.

Idk what Aragon's family does yet but Oz hears that Atlas knows Aragon and basically says that bros family uses stuff from diff planes to make their stuff so Atlas should totally get him to fund the project as well. So thats how Aragon gets introduced to the rest of the gang.

Aragon (he/she genderfluid) is a fire elemental and the way that works in my world is that elementals are born as null but when they hit puberty they gain their element based on who they are like personality wise.

She's super standoffish and snappy. She's very much the painful aspect of fire when you first meet her. But as you get to know her I think she mellows out into barely a burning ember of a person. As the story continues I want him to become more of a hearth kinda fire personality wise.

Her entire thing is that her parents want him to go into business and support the family but he super doesn't want to do that. Except he doesn't know who she is as a person because his whole life has been defined by being what his family wants that he doesn't know what else to do.

He has super bad family relations and like 2 friends outside of the gang and they're the butler and the chef so she isn't doing great. So like when he's thrown into a group of people who know exactly who they are and are doing what they want its kinda moth to the flame. Being around them hurts because imposter syndrome and jealousy but also it's visible proof that theres a chance at a happier future for him.

Growing up I imagine he spent a lot of time hiding in the kitchen. The chef would listen to him complain and give him snacks n stuff. Eventually he started teaching Aragon to cook. Later down the line I want him to have his own little restaurant but he is Not There yet.

His character is me processing what it means to learn how to trust. She's very much that one character that is not down to found family but boy howdy are the others trying (They succeed). Atlas brought Aragon home one day and his parents decided "yeah that's my kid" after hearing about her negligent home life. A lot of their relationship is Atlas convincing Aragon to be a Sew (most of their family is adopted through similar means) while Aragon struggles with still wanting to prove himself to his parents.

Malachi (he/him nonbinary) and Oz (she/her) are still in development.

Malachi is like a magic physicist, his mentor is working with the guy in charge of making the spell (enchantment???) for the portal to take em from plane a to plane b. So him and his mentor are studying the relationship between those spaces to make sure no one like dies and things stop coming through without permission.

Oz and her mentor make the rovers and what not that they send through the temporary portals in order to get more info on how to set up a temporary one.

They bond over the project and school.

The way I make characters is I basically come up with a role they fill, a vague concept, and like 4 personality traits + sometimes a design. Then they stay as like vague husks of people till I find 2-3 characters or people that make me go "This is so character A" and I copy and paste things to give them actual depth. Once the mishmash is complete the brainworms start forming connections between them, the world, and other characters already in existence.

As of rn Oz and malachi only have one inspo each so I'm a lil lost on them. I wanna develop them a bit better this year tho

There also isn't any plot for this

#Theres never any plot #theres only ever vibes and characters #my story isn't linear its very much just some people living and sometimes I give them problems #Writing this out feels so cringe #Telling anyone about Atlas' family specifically brings back memories of the forbidden mary sue #have to keep reminding myself I create for myself and theyre allowed to be as op as I please

[wolfish-trickster]

Normal writers: oh gosh i hope i didn't accidentally write this female character as manic pixie dreamgirl, that would be horrible 😭

Me: i hope i write this dumbass love interest of the main character as manic pixie dreamgirl to foreshadow she is just a fragment of imagination of said main character and not as a normal human with flaws and character, i hope i don't fuck it up

#writer's problems #some people have to rewrite their mary sues and gary stues into human beings with flaws and character arcs to avoid criticism #while i hope i protray this bitch as the emptiest of empty characters to show the reader how toxic the main characters view of the world is #writing is funny 😂