#steve's character arc deserves better

[https-dandelion]

i rewatched captain america the first avenger and all of a sudden i am a child/tween/13 year old obsessed with marvel again. i miss the old mcu so much it aches my heart and i didn't realise i could feel this way about movies but those movies raised me

#i wouldn't be the person i am today if my family hadn't gone to see every new mcu movie in theatres as a kid #i was scrolling through my mcu posts from 2020/2021 too #from when all the shows (wv/tfatws/loki/ms marvel) were happening #that wasnt too bad of an era either #but i want the feelings the old mcu gave me back #i also want bucky barnes to be happy again (thank god for tfatws show it changed my life i need to rewatch it) #i want steve rogers back he was my favourite avenger as a kid how could they just get rid of him like that. all it took them was 10 seconds #and they decimated his character development AND peggy's arc (ik its been 5 years i'm still mad as hell) #i wish everyone hadn't forgotten peter. im not the biggest mcu peter fan just for the writing and storylines hes given but the boy #he deserves better #ok this is getting long i guess #mcu #tia.txt

[doublemegative]

#eddie munson is such a chaotic tag to follow one minute it’s chrissy next minute it’s steve and then i’m crying

#eddie munson #eddissy #steddie #stranger things 4 #stranger things #chrissy cunningham #steve harrington #stranger things characters deserved better arcs #duffer brothers #by the way i’m not an eddissy shipper but is that really the best name you guys could come up with no offense

[nyxi-pixie]

only talked abt this in rbs before but it lives in my brain and i need to fully DISSECT

tv and movies and books etc dont need to be endlessly hopeless and end in despair to be good!!! you dont need gratuitous violence and death and misery to have character arcs or plotlines or a good narrative!!! in fact, over using that shit can makes writing predictable and lose meaning!!!!!

if everyone expects certain characters to just be sad all the time and never have anything go right theyre not going to be shocked when more bad shit happens. it can totally negate the emotional value of the characters struggles if they Never have any wins. (even super tragic characters we usually start by seeing them doing well?? and then descending to shit??? not just starting shit. shit through the middle. and shit at the end. where tf wld the story be. u cant have an arc if its flat😭)

interrupting character arcs with death can be a good strat to emphasise the sadness of a character death OR it can just make the writing seem wasted which is what happens in most cases

killing off every character isnt shocking its boring.

HAPPY ENDINGS ARENT BAD WRITING. WRITING HOPE IN FICTION IS REALLY SLAY ACTUALLY. STOP MINIMISING HAPPY ENDINGS JUST BC THEY DONT RIP UR HEART OUT. NEGATIVE EMOTIONS ARENT THE ONLY WAY TO BE EMOTIONAL ABOUT MEDIA. (look at how many people cried over heartstopper. emotional. no deaths(except immys dog #rip) and happy endings)

SO NO. GIVING WILL BYERS A TRAGIC ENDING INCLUDING DEATH OR TURNING AGAINST EVERYONE HE LOVES OR HAVING THE PEOPLE HE CARES ABT SUDDENLY OUT OF CHARACTER NOT CARE ABOUT HIM WOULDNT BE GOOD WRITING. MAKING EVERYTHING HE FINDS HAPPINESS IN SUPER SAD ISNT GOOD WRITING. ITS BORING AND STUPID AND I HATE IT. will byers defense foREVER. anyway just let him be happy and let him have his bf it will work out much better for both of them. "mike should reject him" no actually ur wrong bc ur wrong.

AND HONESTLY. SAME FOR STEVE IDC IF PEOPLE SAY HE HAS TO DIE TO COMPLETE A CHARACTER ARC. DEATH ISNT THE ONLY CONCLUSION FOR EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER. like if he dies thats fine but saying its the only valid progression for him?!??!?! stupid take.

#i call it the game of thrones effect #and its ruining everything #people genuinely think character arcs should end in death #people say this about steve harrington all the time and its like sure okay but you dont Need to have him die to complete an arv #arc** #stupid concept #characters dying=\=good writing #will byers #byler #i feel like you guys understand this better than most #will deserves a happy ending frfr #most of them do tbh #ANYWAY. SOMETIMES CHARACTER DEATHS ARE NECCESSARY. USEFUL TO STORY. ADD TO PLOT. ETC #BUT SOMETIMES ITS JUST BORING WRITING #'oh we want to make emotional scene so lets kill someone again' nothing says poor writing like over reliance on killing characters #steve harrington #sorry this is a bit of a mammoth compared to my other posts but guys i have so many thoughts

[mangio-formaggio]

honestly I didn't even release how much I care about this show until vol.2 came out and the laziness and cheap drama logic of it all made me so fucking mad like I wasn't since jaime lannister lost 8 seasons of character development in five minutes of screen time.

#stranger things #part 2 was a mess #dialogues are repetitive and blant #nancy jonathan and steve all deserved better than this regressive plotline #and my boi jonathan also deserve a proper arc #his scene with will was great but also makes me even more pissed #like he is such a good character #and nancy grow so much more confident in her skin partly because of his relationship #and we all now about steve #our champion out hometown boi #don't get me started on will tho #it's just ridiculous how they think that makes him to suffer every season is a good idea #also i'd rather prefer max permanently dead than this living hell #she's my comfort character #eddie... my soft child... at least he can hung out with chrissy #also mike should be the one who died #it would be way more interesting and impactful #on a positive note lot's of great acting moments from this phenomenal cast #they trying they best even when material isn't very good #oh and jopper were cutties #anyways it's 1 am and i probably should stop this useless rant

[questolatodiparadiso]

i definitely have to rewatch season number 1, 2 and 3 but boy did they fuck up a couple characters

#stranger things #lucas/dustin/will were friends you know nnnn #mike wasn't ever my fave character but after season 1 he did revolve completely around el so his s4 storyline didn't really bother me #the basketball players having more screentime/better storylines than some og characters like jonathan and lucas #argyle & eddie aka characters we met 3 seconds ago more interesting and impactful than og ones #will's arc: suffering #mike was never the heart sorry nnnn #steve & nancy.... after all the jancy arcs in the previous seasons #i remember season 2 being boring and weak and maybe that's why the writer rushed things this season #i loved the story overall and the long episodes but with 700 things happening at once and 244 characters #not everyone gets the storyline they deserve #and more honestly

[maddy-ferguson]

a part of me thinks (or considers) that they brought stncy back bc they might seem the situation from the angle that steve personally developed and changed, and when nancy is 'ready' to enter a relationship with him again he will wait. they also might have planned nancy and jonathan to have relationship problems without fixing them as a set up for breaking them up, and it kinda seems sus to bring stncy thing and tease it if it is not going anywhere. and as much as i see it as an 'evidence' for jncy, them staying together and holding hands in the last shot is not enough of a narrative proof to say that they will end the show being a couple.

this stncy thing and teasing it would be pretty much nonsensical and unnecessary if it is not going anywhere is what im saying at the end of the day. bc they had the capacity to make steve move on in s3 when he's said he's over nancy, and there was no point of showing nancy's 'sort of attraction' towards steve in this season and leaving it ambigous. xDDD? i am sorry at the end of the day but the writers legt things that way and stncy happening is an actual possibility as well as the single!nancy route, and thinking jncy is 100% endgame just bc of that last shot is negating the overt narrative and how their relationship has been portrayed in s3-s4.

i think the stncy thing and teasing it can still makes sense even if they don't get back together. the thing though is what would steve even get from getting back together with nancy. is "giving" him the girl who got together with the guy she really wanted to be with while steve was buying flowers and planned on apologizing as a reward for becoming a better person much of a reward. lol

#plus yeahh they're men but i don't think they're that stupid. not saying men are inherently stupid #it's just that giving the redeemed character his former gf back (whose arc is in part about not being with him and guys like him) #would be misogynistic. #tome #this isn't me being anti-nancy and saying ohh steve deserves so much better than her she was horrible!!! because i grew up and can now see #the bigger picture and am no longer like steve who focuses entirely on the 'like we're in love' part of nancy little it's bullshit speech #it's just that they're so incompatible thinking about them ending up together hurts #this is just surface-level #but like yeah why does he want to be with her so bad anyway #like you said it's such a regression which makes sense in the you're supposed to feel like you lost season i guess #but like yeah steve stans lost the most because the writers also. don't seem to care about him that deeply despite his excessive screentime #so weird #ask

[lesbiannancytruther]

no but hear me out:

i want robin to kiss a girl in season 5 so badly and no matter who it is, in the end of the day i will take it because she needs a gf already BUT

it has to be nancy. like it has to be. it's not that i dislike vickie or anything but i just (i better not get canceled for that one) feel like her character was kind of poorly written? no hate to the actress at all, but to me it just felt like they copy-pasted robin's entire personality and turned it into a new character?? i don't know maybe that's just me? robin deserves a complex character by her side (nancy god damn wheeler) and i am dying on that hill. nancy is and has always been such a complex character and giving her a girlfriend would only EMPHASIZE this complexity. from s1 one until now nancy has been captured in this love triangle and it is pretty clear that she never felt fully understood in neither of those relationships. like she always had to prove herself you know what i mean? with both steve and jonathan. now guess what? she never had to prove herself around robin. ROBIN EVEN PUT HER IN CHARGE HELLO??

and robin...well the way she rambled around nancy?? the way she looked down when she saw the way nancy was looking at steve?? the way she called for nancy when she went after steve?? the way they held hands??? they both deserve each other so much. i could literally talk about this for HOURS oh my god. the ronance hyperfixation is going strong!

hello anon i understand u so strongly, and im sorry this took me so long to get to! i promise it wasn't intentional!

i will forever be on the train that even if vickie was done better than she was, she will always be a character introduced to give the lesbian character a love interest, she was doomed to this position from the start because she had no other real purpose! rockie will always feel inorganic because vickie is nothing beyond a love interest for robin.

this is. such a common problem, ESPECIALLY in wlw ships, and that's why i love ronance. nancy wheeler is immune to this phenomenon because she and robin were both created independently and with different purposes, and their stories come together so well its actually insane

nancy wheeler is one of those characters that is so hard to understand if you don't look at her through a queer lens, or at the very least an anti-misogynist one. i think the best thing the duffers could do for her is finish the arc she started in season 1, which is focused on self-realization and discovery.

the entire show she has been told who she is, what she should do, who she likes, who she loves, by everyone! it is never nancy who says these things, it is other characters telling her, even barb, even robin. how insane would it be if she came to the conclusion on her own that she liked women? or at the very least had looked at her own feelings not through the lens of someone who didn't understand her or the situation they were talking about.

robin falls into these same patterns, but the more she gets to know nancy, the more she really understands her, the more she backs off on those kinds of comments and the more she uplifts nancy's voice. there is SO MUCH POTENTIAL in them and the fact that it will more likely than not be ignored is so. agonizing. please duffer brothers see the vision

#stranger things #nancy wheeler #robin buckley #ronance #anon #anti rockie

[stuckytoyoulikeglue]

I've been wanting to get my thoughts on Steve's ending off my chest for literal years and I read something earlier that finally prompted me to write it all down.

This is entirely my own, personal, biassed opinion.

I do not want a fight. Or even a 'healthy debate', if I'm being honest.

If you don't agree, that's cool, just move along, nothing to see here.

Please don't be mean, I'm a delicate flower and I can't take it.

So... Like most of the people I've come across in my preferred branch of the fandom, I didn't love Steve's ending.

Unlike a lot of people, I didn't actually have a problem with the end result, just the motivation behind it.

Chris was done, Steve needed to be written out, Tony founded the universe and deserved to be its ultimate saviour, so the best case scenario was to give Steve a happy ending. I'm glad he got a happy ending. I love him, I wanted him to be happy.

But...

The exact same story arc, only without it being his choice, would still have given him the happy ending that Marvel presumably wanted for him. It would have given him the girl that got away, and the chance to finally live the life that he thought he'd lost, and all without betraying his character.

I still think it was incredibly dumb not to leave him trapped in the past (and making the most of it) after returning the stones, rather than having him choose to walk away (from everything, but especially Bucky, no matter how you see their relationship), but one thing that I keep seeing posts about (some joking, but most not), that I do not get at all, is why so many people seem to think that everything else would have played out exactly the same, just with him as Peggy's hubby instead of the man she married in the MCU timeline (I'm not debating here whether that was Daniel or not).

Yes, Steve's character was damaged by his choice to walk away, but he's still Steve. He wouldn't have sat idly by and watched Hydra sink its claws into the SHIELD Peggy was building in front of him. He wouldn't have just left Bucky to stew in Siberia. We don't even know if he actually put down the shield for any real length of time.

After all, he didn't return to pass it on to Sam until he was an old man, and the shield he passed along was a different shield. Maybe it was a new one that was made for him after his old one was lost to the ice, maybe he had it made specially to give to Sam, who knows? But what we do know as a result, is that whatever happened in his new timeline, it was not the same as what happened in ours.

Personally I choose to believe that Bucky lives next door, the Starks come round for tea most weeks, and everyone just dotes on ickle baby Tony, not least his dad. They're still in touch with the rest of the Howlies, though they don't get to see them as often as they'd like, and ideally Zola is rotting in a cell somewhere.

Admittedly, I'm not sure what I reckon happened to the original Steve from that timeline. Maybe he didn't survive the ice, maybe they defrosted him early and the two Steves started a rota for playing Cap so they both get a chance to actually have a life in between punching bad guys. Maybe he's living in sin with Bucky, pretending he's our Steve's identical twin brother if anyone ever sees them both at the same time. It doesn't really matter.

My point is that damn near anything could have happened in that new, mysterious universe, because the only certainty we have is that it was exactly like ours until Steve went 'back' to it, and it was definitely not the same as ours from that point on.

Butterfly effect and all, Steve's mere existence guarantees that it's different and, as I already mentioned, the shield that he gives Sam provides concrete proof of it.

Of course, I'm not saying things necessary played out any better. Maybe SHIELD didn't fall, but the governments of the world did. Maybe Steve saved Bucky only for him to be hit by a bus mere weeks after he brought him home to Brooklyn. But in no world did Steve sit there casually tossing a salad while fully aware that his brainwashed best friend was off to murder the president.

That is all (for now).

PS. I love Peggy. I'm still miffed they cancelled Agent Carter. I don't think having her marry Steve in an alternate timeline takes anything away from who she was or what she built in ours. Her legacy is entirely intact in our world, and in another world she was doubtlessly equally kickass, she just got to have Steve too.

#steve rogers #bucky barnes #peggy carter #captain america #stucky #steggy #avengers endgame #i am absolutely going to regret posting this in the morning

[dacrekayd]

Sorry I'm gonna rant a little in ur inbox...

So much ro//nance bases around Nancy and her development and growth, while completely neglecting Robin's character all together. "The great way for Nancy to finish off her arc is to get with Robin! She doesn't need a man(but apparently can't end without a love interest)!" It's often paired with "Nancy is not a prize for Steve/Jonathan" but then turning around and treating Robin as a prize for Nancy. It's frustrating! I agree that, even if Nancy was attracted to girls and liked Robin, Robin has probably not even thought about Nancy as a romantic prospect because she was 1) dating Jonathan the entire time they knew of each other 2) was the ex of her very best friend, who was the first person she came out to and accepted her whole heartedly , 3) broke said best friend's heart pretty badly (whether or not he told her or knew all the details himself) 4) she has a crush on Vickie who has shown interest in return. Nancy isn't a prize for a male character's growth, but Robin isn't a prize for a female character's growth either! Even if Steve only wanted her to be happy would support that happiness even if it was with his ex, Robin herself wouldn't go for it as she's far too wrapped up in Steve. A lot of r//nance hc etc ignore this part. That Robin loved Steve first, and that a fundamental part of her is this love between them. Idk I feel like they just. Make it all about Nancy and not about Nancy AND Robin...(often argued that a man does not belong in a relationship between two women but. Steve is Nancy's ex and Robin's best friend. He's already THERE. Pretending he doesn't exist doesn't make for a solid characterization of either of them)

Also Your tags "also me gives of homophobic if a girl liked her vibes"....yeah. do agree. I'm sure she'd tell herself and everyone that she isn't and that she supports equal rights and all that. But if she saw two boys holding hands her face would pinch and she'd look away or two girls kissing look down and speed up her walking. She wouldn't be overt but she gives off vibes that she'd say "haha okay Robin...you're not into me though, right?" when Robin is telling her she's dating Vickie. (If Robin ever told her). Very much "I support you but I don't want to see it"

YES YES YES HOLY SHIT you absolutely hit every single point of why i hate that ship so much!!

i just don’t understand the obsession with smushing the two main women on the show together when 1.) vicky (and for fics, fuckin chrissy!!! hello?????) is right there and 2.) robin deserves better!!! someone who doesn’t roll their eyes at her in disdain when she rambles or gives her that stupid fake eye squinty smile!!!!

and look i’m sorry but nancy was clearly jealous of robin and steve’s relationship because she can’t stand not being the only woman steve loves!!! you all can deny it ALL you want but it’s so goddamn obvious

she’s not jealous becaus she’s into robin she’s bitter because to her it looks like steve is moving on!!!

and i maintain that’s why she was flirting so heavy with him and giving him those damn eyes!! be in denial all you want, call steve weird and creepy for his six nuggets dream all you want, but nancy was ALLLLL UP in his koolaid!!!! she was leading him on!!!!!

in conclusion,

‼️ROBIN DESERVES BETTER‼️

#anon will you marry me #kiss me right now on the mouth actually #anti ronance #anti nancy wheeler

[stars-and-birds]

actually it really bugs me when anti-st*ncys (I’m one too, just hear me out a sec) say that they shouldn’t get together because Steve deserves better than Nancy, because she treated him badly in earlier seasons.

and to some extent, I agree. One of the reasons I hate st*ncy is because they’re just not compatible anymore. If they ever were. one of the last things Barb says to Nancy, while she’s dating Steve is ‘this isn’t you nance’.

Over the first two seasons they start to grow appart and become their own people with different development arcs. which brings me to the whole ‘Steve is too good for Nancy’ argument that I hate.

Steve has so much growth away from Nancy. He becomes a better person because of her, and them breaking up. but all the Steve stans saying ‘yeah he’s too good for her’ kind of ignore that yes he’s a better person but he’s not perfect. I mean for one, he makes several moves on Nancy in season four knowing she’s still dating Jonathan. which from a perspective where your looking at Steve’s development, didn’t make sense at all. Steve and Nancy simply don’t make sense together. For example.

in the bathroom scene, when Robin says she’s not like Nancy, Steve quite literally says that’s why he likes her. Robin is different from Nancy, and she doesn’t even know Nancy, separating him from Steve and Nancy’s memories together.

but Nancy has had so much development as well. She went from the unpopular quiet girl with good grades and shit to having fucking guns, plural in her bedroom and saving the world several times. she discovered a passion for journalism. she’s a better character too.

they’ve grown apart. They’ve become better people. both of them.

in conclusion stop saying that Steve deserves better than Nancy because she’s a bad character. They’re both incredible characters.

#This probably doesn’t make sense #im writing this on my phone so sorry for any spelling errors #anti stancy #stranger things #jancy #ronance #st analysis

[booksandpaperss]

my (probably too optimistic) hopes and dreams for ST season 5

a genuine exploration and explanation of what exactly has been going on with Mike these past 2 seasons. we can guess and analyze but it needs to be confirmed made clear and done well or so help me god-

Will interacts with multiple characters. any characters I'm not picky at this point PLEASE (I'd say main character Will too but that's a given atp)

Will gets to yell at Mike

Will and Mike finally get that hug

Will looses his shit over something One does. idc how or what but it happens and my boy gets to scream

I'd put reveal of Will's time in the UD and Will with powers here but those are also givens (at least they better be lol)

actual OG party scenes

el and Lucas bonding

el has to make a choice between being everyone's savior again and staying to help max and she chooses max

Lucas gets more screen time and development and his trauma is actually explored

free Nancy from being confined to the love triangle drama and explore her guilt with barb thru her friendship with robin

Robin's character gets fleshed out more

Robin and Vickie kiss on the mouth. but that it's not the sole end goal of robin's arc

byler jancy team up

rain fight gets explicitly brought up through dialogue (preferably in a byler fight)

here is where I'd put painting get's brought up but that is definitely a given

Joyce actually interacting with her kids

return of season 1 and 2 Joyce

whatever they do with max's character it better be done well (this includes her waking up at some point and surviving bc it would be dumb as hell to almost kill her twice only to then actually kill her)

hopper does not go back to being a cop

mike fights a creature with a sword

Whatever is going on with time fuckery gets explained in a way that's not rushed or lazy

Whatever Owens' deal is and what he was doing with Brenner gets explained

free Steve from romance unless it's ambiguous homerotic tension with Jonathan that doesn't get addressed but its. there

Give Erica Sinclair the development and plot significance that she deserves

Argyle is there and he's vibing and he doesn't die and he lives a happy life afterwards, also he teams up with the other older teens

she probably won't but. kali content. please I want her back and I wanna know how she ties into everything

What I think definitely will happen

genuine Mike character explanation (also byler endgame is included in this)

will gets to yell at mike

mike and will get to hug

will gets to loose his shit

Will with powers and how they tie into the UD

OG party scenes

el and Lucas bonding

el choosing max over playing the part of superhero

robin and vickie kiss

rain fight gets brought up w painting

Joyce interacts with her kids

max lives

mike fights w sword

time fuckery gets addressed

Owens' deal gets addressed

also known as my ideal season 5 vs the exact amount of confidence I actually have in the duffers and what I think they care abt. it’s not nothing but it’s not a whole bunch either💀💀

#posting this for fun #stranger things 5 #byler tumblr #elli talks stranger things #ig I’ll tag byler cuz the tag needs more posts and this has byler in it #byler

[jaegerisim]

I am going to go controversial here. Stancy is a horrible ship even worse than mlvn.

Steve and Nancy have nothing in common. Nancy is an independent woman who wants a career, not a family. Meanwhile, Steve wants a nuclear middle-class family which she has explicitly said she'd hate to have. I am not saying it's not ok for Steve to want that, but it def isn't what would make Nance happy.

Second of all, the only thing that's real abt Stancy is their physical attraction. That is objective. It is in the script. It explicitly says that when Steve does a perfect landing, Nancy finds it hot and it's ok to find ppl hot while you are dating someone but not to lead them on, which is to one extent what Nancy does with Steve. (I'm not slandering her, I love her just as much as the next Nancy stan but it is not ok to do that)

Meaning, the Duffers mishandled Nance's character this season regarding relationships. Badly but not unrealistic. I hate how they made Nancy lead on Steve or at least flirt with him when his feelings are not shared. We know Jancy is the endgame, we know bc the ending of the season foreshadowed it. Yet, her character is extremely realistic for me and that's why I love her sm. She was a teenager when her BFF disappeared while she was having sex with Steve (another reason why they can't work, Nance associates Steve with Barb's disappearance. Then she learns about her gruesome death in another dimension, she feels guilty and tries to avenge her. All of this happens and Jonathan is always there with her. Always. He doesn't leave her side. Jonathan and Nance have shared trauma, while Steve and Nancy don't even have that. While Nancy was with Jonathan, Steve was with The Party. They each find their own people. In this situation, it is normal for Nancy to be confused over her feelings as her character arc focuses on her growth and maturity as a woman handling romance and trauma.

Furthermore in S3 Steve says she likes Robin bc she isn't like Nancy. He got over her and thinks that he needs someone different from her. In the pitch, Robin would be Steve's girlfriend, yet in the end, she was his platonic soulmate. This was something I particularly loved bc this shows that Steve's character arc is not about romantic love but for platonic and brotherly love he finds in Dustin and Robin.

Now, about Jonathan's character arc. This character is unjustly hated, IMO. He is super underrated and deserves more appreciation. I love Steve but Jonathan is personally a better character. Jonathan comes from years of abuse and neglect having to take care of his younger brother who gets atrociously bullied and abused at school and home. He is forced to drop out and work full time taking extra shifts at work in order for them to scrape by. This means he has the same or more trauma than Steve. Jonathan had to go alone to buy a coffin for his presumed dead brother and grieve for him alone while having to deal with his supposedly delirious mother and abusive father. All of this at the age of 14-15.

Due to the lack of social interaction, we know Jonathan has, he has trouble comprehending Nancy as he sees her as this rich, pampered priss. She isn't and he learns this. He and she let go of their prejudice towards each other to reach a common goal, find their loved one.

Stancys claim Jonathan neglected Nancy when she was being mistreated at work during S3. In this situation, both were in the wrong. Nancy was being a bit selfish bc she wasn't taking into consideration the fact that if Jonathan lost the job, his family would have severe economical problems since they need money desperately. Jonathan showed very little empathy towards Nancy's struggle with misogyny but Steve wasn't even present here so what support did he show? Plus it is canon Steve allowed and even encouraged his friends to slut shame Nancy. Even when Jonathan lies to Nancy about going to college, this isn't such a big issue as having a bf who allows you to be publicly humiliated. Yes, Jonathan did take photos of Nancy without her consent but she forgives him.

So in conclusion, Nancy and Steve will never be endgame because of their lack of romantic chemistry and dare I say, they don't have chemistry at all except this last season which seems pretty forced by the narrative to me!

#anti stancy #jancy is endgame #jancy4life #stranger things jancy #jancy endgame #jancy analysis #stranger things #nancy wheeler #jonathan byers #steve harrington

[obsessive-aspie-girl]

I came across THE ABSOLUTE BEST comment on an AO3 MCU fic!! The person who commented it even cited their sources proving what they were saying by turning part of the sentence into a link -- multiple times! Idk how to do that so I'll just leave a link to the original for anyone interested in those, and paste show off the comment here!

**Warning: Please mind the tags! Within the MCU you either hate this type of fic--and therefore comment--or you're still just a salty and full of rage as you were when it all first started going downhill in 2015. In other words: Civil War Team Iron Man.**

THE COMMENT (which was a reply to a hate comment about how "amazing" and "perfect" Captain America is):

"Yes, Steve Roger is all of those things. In the comics. 616 Steve can do things like defeat two other Super Soldiers when his Serum has been turned off. He's actually a Captain instead of it just being a stage name, due to, depending on the writer, either actually going to Officer School and blitzing through it, or receiving the equivalent of Officer School training while "on the job." In the comics, Steve Rogers earned his rank under the code name of Captain America, and his "secret identity" was that of the bumbling Private Rogers. MCU Cap actually is the bumbling Private Rogers, but is treated like a trained genius tactician undeservedly.

Comics Steve Rogers is also of far better moral character. He's the sort of person who would throw his shield to alter the trajectory of someone falling in order to avoid civilians being hurt. MCU Steve Rogers is never shown caring about the people hurt in Bucharest, and has no problems treating a German SWAT team the same way he did Crossbone's goons. When in the comics everyone finds out that it was Cap's evil Hydra clone who did all sorts of terrible things, Steve admits to HYDRA Cap that he's actually glad that, thanks to HYDRA Cap, people no longer trust him as much as they did in the past, as he's actually never been comfortable with people blindly trusting him or anyone else. MCU Steve demands that people blindly trust him to have their best intentions in mind. 616 Steve has enough willpower to break free of mind control straight away; MCU Steve got stuck in Wanda's illusions like everyone else.

Also, when 616 Tony isn't being written by stupid writers as a fascist, Steve is pretty much the founder and president of the Tony Stark Defence Squad. Anyone talks crap about him, Steve reminds them of how many people his tech and charity work has helped, and on a more personal level actually appreciates how much Tony has done for him instead of accepting it as his due for saving the world once a year.

Comics Steve is respected because he deserves it and has earned it; MCU Steve demands it like an angry toddler, claiming that he's a good man when in reality he's just not as big of an asshole as the Red Skull.

The sad part is, it would have been so easy to salvage Steve's character. Show him sending a coded message to JARVIS during WS, and later say Fury mention that Tony, even with his suits all blown up, was standing by to ensure that all the non-Hydra stuff was taken off the net so that no innocent SHIELD employees were hurt and no US secrets were leaked. About 5 seconds of footage.

Show him trying to contact Tony when Wanda talks crap about Ultron being just like him to prove her wrong, and getting concerned when there's no answer and heading back to Stark Tower just to be sure. Don't show him already be in the process of charging forwards and drawing back his fist to throw a punch at Tony before his chest piece ever arrives. Add two seconds of footage where Steve tiredly asks whether Tony can call another suit to pick him up from Siberia after their fight, and have that letter include an actual apology instead of Steve just trying to justify his actions. Give Wanda an actual redemption arc and have Steve feel like, even if she was HYDRA and people don't like her, she still deserves a chance to show she's not a monster like the Red Skull was. Show Wanda being horrified that the Hulk wandered into Johannesburg, and be reluctantly grateful to Tony that he stopped her from ultimately being responsible for the deaths that a rampaging Hulk would have caused.

Instead we have MCU Steve, who seems less and less heroic the more you think about his actions, and spoilt brat Wanda."

Link to original comment thread:

https://archiveofourown.org/comments/188589974

#mine #ao3 comments #mcu multiverse #marvel #marvel cinematic universe #marvel 616 #marvel comics #iron man #captain america #tony stark #steve rogers #civil war team iron man #anti team captain america #team tony stark #not steve rogers friendly #not wanda maximoff friendly #tony stark defense squad #anti team steve rogers #ca:cw #a:aou #age of ultron #civil war #not team cap friendly #mcu writers awful decisions #fic involves min yoongi without bothering min yoongi -- i don't think he'd mind #best. comment. ever #i will remain salty and pissed off at the mcu #justice for tony stark -- his ending fucking sucked #ca:ws

[nakianshuri]

Based on a few posts against Stancy that I’ve read in passing that last few months, I realized that to ship Stancy, you have actually have to believe Steve and Nancy’s stories as they are being told. Specifically, you have to accept two things: 1) Steve and Nancy have changed and 2) they have shared trauma (Barb’s death), and to complete their arcs, imo, they (specifically Nancy) must dissociate themselves from the shame connected to that trauma. 

Dealing with shame

Yes, Vecna tells Nancy that she killed Barb, but that’s just as ridiculous as him telling Max thinking she was to blame for Billy’s death. Vecna’s not a reliable narrator here. He’s a manipulator and feeds off people’s isolation, secrets, and shame. We saw that most recently in s4 with Chrissy, Fred, Patrick, and Max, who were all struggling with negative self-images based on past trauma.

Nancy once also told Steve that they killed Barb, but again, that makes just as much sense of Max believing that wishing for Billy’s death literally led to his death. None of that is true, but it is reflective of the shame they are both carrying, and both Nancy and Max have pushed their partners away (Steve and Lucas) because that shame has led them to think less of themselves and their relationships. 

Ultimately, Max is not to blame for Billy’s death. Nancy and Steve aren’t to blame for Barb’s death. Both Max and Nancy need to understand that to free themselves of Vecna and move forward (assuming Max gets out of her coma).

Accepting change

This is the hardest part for a lot of viewers online who are against Stancy imo. I’ve seen a lot of posts that have said Steve deserves better than Nancy or Nancy deserves better than Steve based on how they’ve treated each other in the past, which is more fan projection than anything to do with the story being told. Nancy hurt Steve, but he literally thanks her for it, and Nancy got back together with Steve even after his friends publicly slut shame her after thinking she was cheating on him with Jonathan. People may not like that she forgave him after that, or that she forgave Jonathan for the photos, but all of the characters have moved on from those events.

The only thing haunting Steve and Nancy is the baggage left after Barb’s death. Just as Lucas says he didn’t truly see Max or what she was dealing with, neither did Steve in seasons 1 and 2. Steve did not help Nancy in the way she needed it. He wanted to comfort her and keep them safe; she wanted to take action. However, that’s not the dynamic at all now. Nancy leads the charge against Vecna, and Steve follows as support. Steve now leaps into danger every season to protect people he cares about deeply. Steve and Nancy as they are now would function entirely differently than Stancy of season 1 and 2, which is why Steve doesn’t yearn for the relationship as it was but thinks they would work because they have changed. 

People can enjoy Steve in non canon relationships, prefer him in previous seasons as much as they like, or ignore his character development as much as they please, and they can have fun with Nancy in other non-canon relationships or imagine her as feeling differently than what they’ve show onscreen. There are all kinds of ways to engage in media.

But the show’s only obligation is to be consistent in the story it’s telling, not the story other fans are telling themselves based on their own biases, desires, and personal experiences. What the story the show has been telling us so far is that Steve and Nancy is that have changed and that carrying shame and negative self-evaluation based on trauma is detrimental to the traumatized person, their relationships with others, and their growth. That to me makes for an infinitely more interesting story than two people whose feelings never change, who never evolve, who define themselves by the shame they carry, and who can’t see each other for who they’ve grown to be. 

#stancy #nance wheeler #steve harrington #stranger things

[just-prime]

Here we go again

So, once again, like the sacrificial lamb that I am, I've consumed the newest episode of Ahsoka...and the best thing that could possibly happen to this show is Thrawn showing up for literally only two seconds. Keep my baby away from this, he deserves better.

It goes without saying that the flashbacks and Anakin made me feel nothing. It was clear that they were covering the clone's faces so that they didn't have to pay Temuera Morrison more than just for that one line. It was an utter rehash of multiple Clone Wars arcs, but far far worse.

A show, where people walk with arms crossed between set pieces in shitty looking costumes. I've seen child cosplayers with better costumes than this. Baby Ahsoka looks like shit. Adult Ahsoka looks like shit. De-aged Anakin looks like shit. Normal Hayden Christensen looks hot. I will concede that point easily.

But yeah, I return once more to my thesis that nothing fucking happens in this show. Like sure, events take place, but they have no meaning. The New Republic wants to court martial Hera? Okay...for what??? Going rogue? They literally don't believe that a war is coming so why the fuck do they care??? Also she's literally one of their highest ranking generals...so what exactly can they do to her? Take away her ship? You're prying the Ghost from her cold dead hands.

Like seriously though, why did this take 3 episodes for them to figure out to follow the purrgil? Like, why wasn't that the first thought?

Also, why is Ahsoka going and finding Hera's kids??? She literally could have left Jacen and Chopper sitting on the Ghost for the entire fleet to find, and jumped in with Ahsoka...

OH AND ALSO FUCK YOU DISNEY FOR MENTIONING LEIA KEEP MY WIFE'S NAME OUT OF YOUR MOUTH - my live reaction

Aaaanyway, here's the obligatory where the fuck is Zeb? Where the fuck is Kallus? We literally only have 3 episodes left. Is Disney avoiding them cuz they don't want to pay Steve Bloom? Is that what's going on? Did he make one too many m-preg jokes and the higher ups stuck him on the DNI list right next to Daniel Glover for the crime of being pro queer characters???

So yeah...Also yes, fine, the purrgil look really good. I'll also give them that.an

#ahsoka critical #dave filoni critical #ahsoka spoilers #ahsoka series #rambles #where the fuck is everbody? #thrawn #star wars #anti filoni

[voxofthevoid]

*comes stumbling in, trips, falls, and lands on face*

I...I did it! I binged the JJK manga! Wait what time is it? What day? *squinting at clock* Huh? Really? How am I still alive????

This is werewolf anon. I'm only slightly sleep deprived and feral. Slightly. (It's a lie. I'm a liar. Nanami, please come pull my hair and punish me.)

I...I honestly don't even know what to say. SO MUCH HAPPENED. I was not ready for where the anime is at with the Shibuya arc to the culling game and Gojo and Megumi and Yuuji and Sukuna and GOJO. GOJO. GIMME BACK MY GOJO YOU FUCKERS-

*incoherent screeching followed by the thud of an exhausted body hitting the ground*

I think the last time I felt such a build up and WTF WHAT DO YOU MEAN was when Steve got on that fucking time travel platform and abandoned Bucky- *gunshot*

No way that Gojo is gone for good??? HOW??? Surely the author is just fucking with us? If Dragon Ball can revive Goku and Vegeta a bunch, why not Gojo- *more gunshots*

Well FUCK. You did warn me it was going to be hellish so I got no one to blame for my self-flagellation of the JJK manga. But goddamn, I was not expecting that!!! 😫😫😫😫😫😫 What do I do now??? Why must the mangaka torment us this way???

And damn I'm sorry to hear people were shitty and tried to block evade you through submissions. WTF. Why can't people operate with some fucking decency? But I appreciate you saying you were cool with me leaving a link. I'm sure I'm not the first person who probably thought of this joke but hey hopefully you get a giggle out of it. I sure needed it after my JJK manga binge spiral lol!

https://i.postimg.cc/SsdyLYGJ/Go-To-Horny-Jail-Yuuji.png

Hopefully next time you see me in your ask box, I won't be the husk of a human being. 😵

*gives you blankets and water* I Get It, Friend.

I was not even remotely kidding about the hell part. I caught up with the manga around the time Yuki+Choso versus Kenjaku was happening, and then I kept up with the weekly releases religiously. Chapter 236 (The Great Bisection) had me in a funk for two whole weeks. I still can't think too much or hard about it without getting real pissed off, and the only saving grace is that it's better than being sad.

I like character deaths, is the thing! I love them—when they're done well. Go/jo was a travesty. The comparison to Steve is apt, honestly, because the favoring of an idealized past at the expense of the present and the human connections (existing and potential) there is one of my main issues with both Steve's time travel and Gojou's airport purgatory behavior.

The main difference on my end is that Steve was my favorite character, so Endgame made me drop the whole franchise. In JJK, Yuuji's my favorite, so I'm still invested to an insane degree.

But yes, even when Gege is at their best, they torment us (and Yuuji, mostly) for shits and giggles. Most of the time, I even enjoy it! Stick around for more pain 🤗

The picture did make me laugh! Here, for the people:

I'm putting him in horny jail. With Gojou. And Nanami. And a few others. Might defeat the purpose, but ah well. He deserves all the hole.

In the time it's taken me to answer this (been a fever-ridden husk myself the last week), I hope you're humaned up!

#werewolf anon #anon #i love my anons #jjk spoilers