wowerehouse

[wowerehouse]

Considering Alleria and Vereesa are both married to humans, it never occurred to me that Sylvanas having a stronger accent, like, needed an explanation.

Do you have a Watsonian reason why Sylvanas has a stronger accent than her sisters?

I do not

[wowerehouse]

So, as a fan of Forsaken Sylvanas I've always wondered how you view her more immoral or hypocritical actions. I don't mean the later stuff from when she was Warchief or even necessarily Vanilla WOW.

For me, I always struggled to like Frozen Throne Sylvanas compared to her Reign of Chaos incarnation because Forsaken Sylvanas employed mind control, IE the same slavery forced on her, onto others.

Specifically she had a bunch of different people possessed and used as kamikaze soldiers on Varimathras and then kept the survivors to be used later, IE Mug'thol the Ogre who only broke free thanks to the Crown of Wills which he was later assassinated for.

The act itself just always struck me as incredibly hypocritical given everything. It wasn't killing and then being magically enslaved but it wasn't much better and sort of set the tone for me not being surprised by Sylvanas and the Forsaken being kind of bastards.

That isn't to say I necessarily thought it was a good decision.

Nor is it to say that it couldn't be made into something thematically resonant. The victim perpetuates a similar crime done unto them if perhaps less extreme out of desperate survivalism but has complicated feelings about it, or the like.

But given that didn't happen, well its a lot like how I don't take Bartman's "no guns" stance seriously when his best friend is a cop. The narrative and thematic dysfunction breaks my vibe. But I am curious about your take on all this.

SORRY FOR THE MULTIPLE WEEK DELAY ON THIS I HAD LIFE HAPPEN REPEATEDLY and also wanted to put some thought into this

okay so required reading which will underpin a lot of this:

what is a war crimes on azeroth

how does Sylvanas see her job as the Banshee Queen

what's up with the Maw [ETA: I don't remember why I put this one in...presumably past!me had a reason?]

as per the war crimes post, I am not using any real world examples for my own sanity, and trying to draw real world parallels will get you blocked, because I'm not interested in getting into that cesspit.

anyway so! the question!

context for everyone else: the events in question happened very shortly (months to a year or so, the timeline is SUPER fake) after Sylvanas fought free of Arthas's control, with.......some number of supporters.

the number of Forsaken/free undead here is important. if Sylvanas is commanding a significant army, then she has many viable routes toward keeping her people safe. if she's commanding fifteen soldiers and an undead goat, then almost any action becomes justifiable.

an unexplored angle in the war crimes post because god knows it was long enough already: the goal being fought over.

we find war crimes/atrocities more palatable when they are being used in defense against invasion than when they are used in perpetuation of it. we find them more acceptable if done by the smaller, weaker force fighting for survival.

this isn't a "get out of jail free" card to do whatever the fuck you want. but if there's a limitless army of demons invading my city, a few atrocities to keep them from ending life on the planet sounds like a fair trade.

and then, of course, a huge POINT in the war crimes post is "we don't do these things because we get really upset when they happen to US", so the moment the OTHER side does a war crime it's now fair game for everyone.

which is to say: as of frozen throne, Sylvanas is fighting entirely for survival. there is not an organized force on Azeroth (or even most of the unorganized ones) who wants her & the Forsaken 'alive'. they are everyone's favorite punching bag. everything she does is for sheer survival.

so how many Forsaken are there? good question.

when poking around the wiki it looks like there are two different ways to estimate the size of the Forsaken at this point in time:

from WC3 gameplay

from WoW gameplay & lore (ex, the History of Warcraft fragment Civil War in the Plaguelands)

unfortunately these uh. contradict. the fragment explicitly says she got half the Scourge (well done Sylvanas holy shit), and god knows there's enough Forsaken PCs running around to validate this.

but WC3 gameplay leans very much toward "scrappy band of rebels" imho. the wiki has "With only a handful of ghouls and a few banshee sisters" (here) which is hardly half the Scourge. it looks much more like it's her, the Dark Rangers, a smattering of weirdass things she took with her in the divorce liberated in her escape and...Varimathras. everyone's fave.

let's put those two together.

let's say that Sylvanas did liberate half the Scourge. in particular, given various propensities among Forsaken PCs, she got a disproportionate amount of the recently dead and relatively few of the older abominations.

and when her tens-or-hundreds-of-thousands of undead came to awareness again, realizing who they were, what they had been made to do, the world they were now resident in--

they collapsed.

what if in frozen throne Sylvanas has a city's worth of undead who are collectively unable to defend themselves, unable to do anything, and she's got maybe a thousand who are actually viable fighters, and everyone wants them wiped out.

(the single arguable exception to this, the quel'dorei, are in the middle of whatever the FUCK kael'thas is up to. idk. i've read the relevant pages 10 times and it still makes no sense. he got afflicted with Gotta Carry The Plot disease and everything went to shit from there. point is, they're busy.)

so with that context.

it is, of course, horrible to possess people and use them as sacrificial soldiers. this is a Bad Thing to do etc.

it's also very strategically sound. it allows Sylvanas to hurt the enemy without risking anything. there's no possible drawback here except some squishy ethics, and "doing horrible things in defense of civilians" is, at least, a huge step up from what Arthas made her do.

if Sylvanas had had other options, if there were more functional Forsaken at that point in time, then different story, but WC3 gameplay strongly strongly suggests that no, a very small percentage of those who were going to make classic era Forsaken were actually fighting in frozen throne. how else was she going to protect her people?

but in general, much, much more sympathetic to people doing war crimes if they are horrifically outnumbered and otherwise going to be wiped out. that tends to provoke anyone into atrocities.

I've talked before--I actually talk in the latest chapter--about how Sylvanas is always defending Silvermoon. this is another iteration of that.

it's also VERY early in her....'character arc' might be a bit strong. trajectory. Sylvanas-on-Gor can set the moral limit of "no rape no slavery", because nothing that happens on Gor is going to change the fates of the Forsaken (well...it is, but indirectly). even Sylvanas-as-Warchief can draw that line, because she is Warchief and the Forsaken are considered part of the Horde, not the Horde's cannon fodder.

but the actions in question were done when Sylvanas wasn't in the Horde. before she'd even named the Forsaken.

to sum up:

I don't think it's hugely hypocritical, or rather, it kind of is, but desperate times etc, she was pushed into a corner and tore her way back out again.

Blizzard's failure to follow up on their own themes remains, as always, a problem. but it's not my problem and I'm perfectly happy to grab some themes and run.

I do think torturing/mind controlling Derek was hypocritical, which is why I completely wrote that part out of the fic. boring, Blizzard. and what was the point? far more effective to leave him just as he is and watch Jaina try to find the trap.

[wowerehouse]

In which there are so, so many things to talk about other than the sex

[wowerehouse]

happy birthday to me have a surprise chapter

#IM SO HAPPY

[wowerehouse]

EDIT: Somehow the whole-ass ending of the chapter got cut off when I posted it, jesus. Anyway, I have fixed the problem so PLEASE refresh the chapter if you had this open in another tab to read later.

Chapter 21: Bombshell

In which Tyrande's team draws close to their prey in Sholazar--while meanwhile, in Lordaeron, Jaina finally learns the truth.

“Beverly.” Jaina’s hollow voice rasped from disuse. “Why are you on High Command’s payroll as an assassin?”

Silence.

It took a few moments for her to register what she was seeing—and several more for her conscious mind to accept it as possible, let alone real.

For the first time Jaina could remember, Beverly Hale had gone perfectly still.

[wowerehouse]

Delighted to have FINALLY worked in the Yukale cameo I promised Snipe, like, three years ago XD

Listen.

The woman is BUSY okay--

[wowerehouse]

Chapter 21: Bombshell

In which Tyrande's team draws close to their prey in Sholazar--while meanwhile, in Lordaeron, Jaina finally learns the truth.

“Beverly.” Jaina’s hollow voice rasped from disuse. “Why are you on High Command’s payroll as an assassin?”

Silence.

It took a few moments for her to register what she was seeing—and several more for her conscious mind to accept it as possible, let alone real.

For the first time Jaina could remember, Beverly Hale had gone perfectly still.

[wowerehouse]

oh my god finally.

in which y'all did want to see the consequences of Jaina's messages, right?

[wowerehouse]

[E]

"Logistics forms are driving me gods-damned feral, I was going to walk to the market for some fresh air…” A quick, unsubtle once-over, and Lorna's voice dropped a register. “Unless my queen has need of me.” “That self-centered blueblood?” Tess trailed her fingers lightly over the weathered stone of the keep. “What she doesn’t know won’t hurt her.”

[wowerehouse]

This is called "knowing your audience."

Nicole Coenen [ Instagram | TikTok | YouTube ]

[wowerehouse]

If Jaina’s ideal life is to park herself up in a mage tower and live out her days doing spell research and running a little town, then what would Sylvanas’s ideal life look like (assuming of course that the forsaken are no longer at risk and Azeroth is no longer going through a new world-ending crisis every other week)?

So if Jaina's answer is tragic because she had that and then it was destroyed, Sylvanas's is tragic because it doesn't exist. She is too caught and trapped in trauma, in order to envision an 'ideal life' you need to imagine a world where bad things don't happen to you and she is not capable of that anymore. The trauma has been too all-encompassing. What is Sylvanas if she's not the Forsaken's protector, what is she if she's not a monster used to scare children into compliance.

Before death you could get to something (Ranger-General of a country not under threat would be a good place to start) but now? I've said it before, but in zero ways has she processed the Fall of Silvermoon, and I don't know that she can. She is still fighting a rearguard action against an overwhelming enemy who cannot be reasoned with. That's who she is. A Sylvanas able to have "an ideal life" requires a massive shift in her own self-conception, and that's just not on the table for a very long time.

(Now, TPtMB will still have a happy ending, and a good one for Sylvanas, but it's complicated and messy and will still have threats and problems and tension. Not an ideal life.)

[wowerehouse]

[E]

"Logistics forms are driving me gods-damned feral, I was going to walk to the market for some fresh air…” A quick, unsubtle once-over, and Lorna's voice dropped a register. “Unless my queen has need of me.” “That self-centered blueblood?” Tess trailed her fingers lightly over the weathered stone of the keep. “What she doesn’t know won’t hurt her.”

#HERE WE ARE

[wowerehouse]

Sometimes a fic clubs you over the head full-formed on your long weekend.

Coming out of Goddamn Nowhere and hopefully postable in a few hours:

[wowerehouse]

As I've picked it back up again after a long hiatus, I've realized that I probably have a lot of people around now who have no earthly idea what the hell my current longfic project even is anymore!

Anyway, this is a GREAT time to start reading

Reunification

Darnassus falls. In some timeline, in some version of the story, Nathanos Marris makes a mistake. In some timeline a word of kindness somewhere, a show of support somewhere else, a moment of humanity for lack of a better term, heads off a preemptive strike at the pass. In some timeline, Alliance intelligence is just a tiny bit more paranoid, a tiny bit more thorough, and the Horde stalls in Ashenvale. But today, Darnassus falls. Darnassus does not burn.

It's a single-point divergence AU of the War of Thorns--I was genuinely shocked that "AU where Sylvanas' original plan, to kill Malfurion and occupy Darnassus intact, succeeded" wasn't more prominent in the fandom. I was ALSO shocked to find so little Tyrande/Thalyssra anywhere, so I folded the two into a single project.

Some highlights:

Thalrande arranged marriage as a political-hostage bargaining chip

Sylvanas displaying both political and military competence while, crucially, still being a deeply obnoxious asshole (affectionate) the whole time

Valtrois TM

Anduin Wrynn, Living Embodiment Of Sunshine

Jaina, traumatized and angry and heartsick, dragged into overseeing the joint administration of Lordaeron and finding herself again in a city she's terrified to let herself love

All of my favorite minor NPCs/Hearthstone protagonists getting their day in the limelight (Rokara and Cariel Roame and Elise Starseeker my beloveds--)

The stark divide between high-level faction politics, and the lived reality of (what I hope you find to be) a rich cast of ordinary, sub-Champion citizens of Azeroth whose lives are a lot more complicated than killing people over a simple blue or red banner

(Seriously, if you like my OCs in general, the little folk of Azeroth are a major recurring thing here.)

Cannot emphasize how emphatically Valtrois is both Present and Extremely Herself.

We're currently right in the middle of a really interesting arc that's REALLY intertwining the parallel plotlines; I'm referring to them in my planning notes as the Ruby Dragonflight and Lordaeron Crisis arcs.

I'm having fun and I think there's some stuff here for a lot of people if y'all want to check it out! I have a much more sustainable approach to writing these days (and a partner who's ALSO writing warcraft longfic, and that's helping to keep the muse alive).

Anyway! Hope to see you over there.

[wowerehouse]

You made that post about the D/s mechanics inherent to quel'dorei relationships, then gave us a firsthand example with Alleria just subbing so hard for Calia. You're a Windrunner, and an actual recognized faction leader. Aren't you the one who is supposed to be deferred to while oh so tenderly clutching your partner's chin?

(Context)

I am so full bore insane about what I'm doing with Calia/Alleria you have no idea.

So like. On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, Calia claims to be totally is the legitimate ruler of Lordaeron, which would put her ahead of someone with a splinter group of Void-infested elves. Which is what Alleria tells herself to get to sleep at night.

Way, way more important is that this precisely mirrors her relationship with Turalyon: Light-touched, deeply passionate, not super interested in Alleria's interests, sure that they're right, convinced that if there's a disagreement it's because Alleria is in the wrong, Alleria is the one corrupted by a powerful, unknowable entity, not them, they're the one trying to fix things. Etc.

There's a point where like, "someone in the relationship is the partner who makes the final call" becomes concerning, where it's starting to shade into weird dependency and control issues. For sure that's what Alleria had with Turalyon and is developing with Calia.

Part of this is because Alleria doesn't trust herself:

Here, alone, she can find herself again. Alleria Windrunner. Whoever that is. But she can center, remember what it feels like to be herself in her own body, remember what it smells like, and gradually add sight and sound, the camps behind her, the vultures circling above, until she is one person, whole and real. (And the Void says: Are you sure?)

So she keeps seeking out relationships where she doesn't need to be the one in charge, where someone else can take off the load. Which wouldn't be a horrific approach except that her taste in partners is appalling. She keeps ending up in these imbalanced relationships trying to redeem herself for [checks notes] taking a survival approach to getting out of prison, and it's just not working.

One thing I like about WoW characterization (which is almost entirely accidental lmao) is the realistic contradictions it presents for certain people. Alleria is both someone who is self aware enough to realize she would make an atrocious Ranger-General and who steps down to avoid that happening, and the person who creates a small army of ren'dorei regardless.

She has a very, very weird relationship to her own authority in particular, which is EXTREMELY fun. And one of the ways she handles this is by subconsciously deferring to people who are very good at looking competent. (You may note this is not an ideal way to find someone who actually knows what they're doing.)

And Calia is just, infested with Terminal Monarch Disease, she is so sure she's doing the right thing, she's convinced that the Forsaken want her as queen, and she'll justify most things in the course of that.

The combination of righteousness between the two of them is why they've talked themselves into torturing Forsaken. It's obvious to both of them that Sylvanas is irredeemable and the Forsaken (as a whole) need to be liberated, equally obvious that as a Menethil and a Windrunner they're the right people to do it. So given those points, anyone who disagrees is clearly wrong and either (if Alliance) misguided or (if Horde) actively hostile. Alleria has always thought the best defense was a good offense, so there we are.

After BfA, Alleria does canonically torture Forsaken to find out where Sylvanas is, which I read as like. If the alternative is the resumption of war or destruction of a country, and people are not answering her (to her POV) extremely simple questions, torture in order to get answers to prevent war becomes justifiable.

Which does, of course, backfire spectacularly here--one of several problems with torture is you have no way to tell which answers were lies, so if you're convinced that one was a lie and are WRONG, oops.

I have gotten slightly off topic.

tl;dr: BOY are they fucked up.

[wowerehouse]

Today's theme:

[wowerehouse]

The world declares open season on Forsaken mages. A Darkspear mule handler declares that the world can fuck off then.

I was so excited by this month's interlude in Power To Manipulate Belief that I had to do a spinoff expanding on Ihz's little cameo and exploring the Forsaken resistance.

#warcraft fic #IHZ