lesboy

[lesboy]

Recently, I've been questioning my gender, since "cisfemale" didn't seem entirely right. I realised that I often shift between agendered and female. That alone is fine. However, the label of "Girlfag" fits me too, since I do sometimes feel like a gay man, and I often end up liking gay men. But the few times I've tried to discuss it, people yell at me for "objectifying gay men" and for being a "faker" and "offensive", and it's so demoralising. How can I come out when there's such a bad reaction?

Hello there!,

I’ve got quite a long response for this, but thoughts on the word have been cooking in my head for awhile, so bear with me.

First, I’ll go over the two prominent meanings of the term “girlfag”:

1) person who identifies as a gay and/or bisexual man who is also comfortable (in part, large or small) identifying as a woman (gender + sexual orientation identification, could also alternatively be described as bigender or fluid gender due to the additional identification of woman)

2) person who is attracted to gay and/or bisexual men (either in addition to attraction to straight men, or exclusively) who does not identify as a gay or bisexual man (sexual orientation identification only, not gender identification) and identifies as a woman

These two meanings for the same term are quite different, and the second meaning in particular has drawn considerable controversy, namely over the question: does someone who doesn’t even identify as a queer man in whole or in part have the right to use “fag” as part of their sexual orientation descriptor? Even with the first descriptor, there are arguments against a FAAB person (as girlfags usually, but not always, are) using it because MAAB folks are the group that is usually (not always, but generally speaking) at the end of “fag” as an insult - if it is not used against you, how can you reclaim it? These are the reasons why there are many issues with the term girlfag (as well as guydyke, which has similar usage except the word is in regard to someone who identifies as a man in part identifying as a lesbian woman as well and/or being attracted to them).

Some people believe it is not possible for those who identify as women (in whole, or in part along with identification with gay or bi men) to legitimately be attracted to and successfully pursue relationships with gay men, or that, even if possible, it is harmful because if gay men wanted to be with women “they would be bi or straight” (so the logic goes) - this is a separate issue from the former problem with the terminology itself. This same logic also implies that any experimentation with or meaningful sexual relationships with women on a given gay man’s part means he is not “actually” a gay man - no one should presume that all gay men are interested in being sexual with someone who identifies wholly or partly as a woman (many absolutely do not, and that is okay and down to their sexual preference). However, there are gay men who are - they exist, and of course bisexual men are attracted to men and women. PoMoSexuals: Challenging Assumptions About Gender and Sexuality includes a good example or two, as well as many others that defy one’s expectations about gender and sexuality. The harm comes not from the gender and sexual orientation combination, or the orientation on its own, but a “chaser” mentality that presumes that all gay and bi men are the same, romanticizes them, or that assumes that one’s attractions must be reciprocated - these unsavory characteristics should be avoided and are not inherently part of this identity.

Issues with the use of a word that has been a slur being re-purposed by a group that is not often at the end of it, plus trouble understanding how it is possible for someone who identifies as a woman and as a gay or bi man and/or is attracted to them being able to be romantically and sexually successful without being a “chaser” creates a cocktail of difficulty in bringing up the topic to many people and, for me personally, serious reservations about the term itself despite my understanding and acceptance of the concept.

Around 2009 or so, I identified as a girlfag before self-describing as I have since ~mid to late 2010 (genderqueer gay male identified). I thought the term made sense for me because I thought I must be at least a little bit girl + gay male (for me, sexual orientation and sex id are tied very tightly together and cannot really be separated - this is not generally the case for others). Slowly, as girl seemed less and less appropriate to describe me and I became more aware of trans* identity and genderqueerness, genderqueer sounded more appropriate, and the use of a slur that had never been shouted at me or used to dehumanize me in the way I self-described seemed inappropriate (for me). To separate myself from the term was very hard to do, especially because so many people at the associated Livejournal community wrote their personal stories over there that had so much in common with my own life and attractions. However, the inclusion of the word I was uncomfortable with and my lack of identification with the “girl” portion made it no longer applicable.

So, what to do? Some people defend the use of the word (including some cis gay and bi men), saying that the “fag” in girlfag is just as playful as the one in “fag-hag” (a word which also can be bothersome as well)…this defense is already faulty on the basis that a “fag-hag” is a friend, a companion, while a girlfag identifies with and/or is attracted to gay or bi men, which is even more intimate. Reclaimation gets fuzzy - does one have to identify entirely as a gay man or in part as a gay man to use it? My first question to try to get to the bottom of why a complex word like this is used is this: why is it so important for this group of people to be able to use it? It is likely due to seeking out this degree of intimate familiarity, a comfort with the term that leads people who are comfortable with the identification to continue to use it. This does not at all mean that it is okay and unproblematic though. The debate will likely carry on if/when there is another term that replaces it.

Specific terms to potentially replace girlfag and guydyke continue not to (yet) appear, as girlfag in particular gains more currency, such as through Janet Hardy’s forthcoming book Girlfag. I continue to be interested in these identities because I know they exist and I identified very strongly with girlfag before not identifying with girl or being uncomfortable with the term and I think that the debate over their usage is worth observing and participating in; this is why I posted a link to Hardy’s Kickstarter when she was raising funds for the book - I think it is important that we hear the stories of people who identify this way, even when elements of their story, or the very term they use to describe themselves could be problematic. To borrow a line from Martha Cornog (author of two great books that tie together my two fields nicely, Libraries, Erotica & Pornography and For Sex Education, See Librarian): the debate is the message. I will, and do, debate the terminology, which in this case inherently raises issues, but I will not debate the clearly real gender identities and/or (depending on the usage) sexual orientations that these terms represent. There is nothing impossible or problematic about someone identifying as a woman and a gay man at the same time or alternately (bigender or gender fluidity plus sexual orientation), or a woman being attracted towards gay or bi men. It is problematic only if the accompanying behavior is problematic, such as in the cases described above with chasing, romanticization, and demands for reciprocal affection (which ought to be avoided no matter which way your affections go). For anyone interested, I did an extensive survey on girlfag and guydyke identity characteristics available in three parts: 1, 2, 3.

Identifying as a gay man in part, along with woman or perhaps other genders, could be best alternatively described as bigender, or gender fluid (you did mention shifting) plus gay male sexuality. “Girlfag" is a term that packs a lot of intensity, particularly around people who are not even familiar with the concept-level possibilities - the word bothers many people to the extent where they become unwilling to even listen to or understand the realness of someone’s identification and/or attraction in this way. I do not often give advice like this, but the best thing to do in company unfamiliar with the term and concept is to describe yourself in another way - still reflecting your identification with / attraction to gay men, but without using a term that people will often find insulting. Fluid or unconventional sexuality is often hard enough to grasp for people, without the additional layer of a word most people have found offensive. Bigender or gender fluidity (in your case) with a sexual attraction to gay men would probably be a good, neutral start - it is a mouthful more than "girlfag” but, even if this is the term you prefer for whatever reason and the name of the community you relate to the most, this instead will likely lead to more complete, respectful understanding in the end from people previously unfamiliar. On the other hand, girlfag as a descriptor in this situation often instead leads to arguments as well as obscurity over what the concept/s even refer to in terms of gender and sexuality. As a less intense example, I have encountered similar, though not as heated, experience with the term genderqueer - queer to some has very strong radical implications (which I don’t ascribe to, but others using the term sometimes do) and these implications can get in the way of someone learning what I even mean by the term, so I generally say “I don’t identify as a man or a woman” instead if I am talking to someone who doesn’t have background information on the concept.

I hope this helps,

~Marilyn

[lesboy]

flag id: two flags with 6 stripes. the left flag’s stripes are very dark purple, medium dark faded purple, soft pink, pinkish-white, pale blue, and soft blue. the right flag's stripes are very dark indigo, purple, soft purple, purplish-white, light red-pink, and pink-red. end id.

banner id: a 1600x200 teal banner with the words ‘please read my dni before interacting. those on my / dni may still use my terms, so do not recoin them.’ in large white text in the center. the text takes up two lines, split at the slash. end id.

lilaeboy | violaegirl

lilaeboy: being both lilaen (lilae lesbian) and a lesboy; a lilaen boy; a lesboy who is exclusively attracted to women and those who do not primarily identify as men

violaegirl: being both violaen (violae veldian) and a veldigirl; a violaen girl; a veldigirl who is exclusively attracted to men and those who do not primarily identify as women

[pt: lilaeboy: being both lilaen (lilae lesbian) and a lesboy; a lilaen boy; a lesboy who is exclusively attracted to women and those who do not primarily identify as men

violaegirl: being both violaen (violae veldian) and a veldigirl; a violaen girl; a veldigirl who is exclusively attracted to men and those who do not primarily identify as women. end pt]

figured i'd also coin these along with the last terms! the top four stripes of each flag are inspired by the lilaen/violaen flags and the bottom two represent being a boy/girl.

tags: @radiomogai, @liom-archive, @orientation-archive, @fem-mogai, @macchiane, @genderstarbucks, @sugar-and-vice-mogai, @kiruliom, @freezingnarc | dni link

[lesboy]

maybe a lilaen lesboy flag? :o

here u go :3333

lilaen lesboy flag-

[Image ID: A flag with seven equally-sized horizontal stripes. From top to bottom, the colors are deep purple, rose pink, orange, dull golden, lavender, and deep brown. End ID.]

[lesboy]

Lesboy Boy+ & Turigirl Girl+

[PT: Lesboy Boy+ & Turigirl Girl+]

Mainly made this cuz I think people would like them!

Definitions for Boy+(link), Girl+(link), Lesboy(link), and Turigirl(link)

[Lesboy Boy+ ID: none yet]

[Turigirl Girl+ ID: none yet]

[Tag] @radiomogai & @liom-archive

DNI is listed within my pinned post. Please go read it before interacting with any part of my content. Ask to tag.

[lesboy]

🍡 Lesenman

― For beings who are both lesbians and enmen (nonbinary men). Made to describe orientation but can also describe gender.

[lesboy]

gendertistic

or genderautistic: an autistic gender; where being autistic influences ones gender; or experiencing gender as autistic.

noun: gendertism; gendertist.

#autigender #actually autistic #aa #autism #gender #asd #actuallyautistic #autist #genders #neogender #neurogender #neurosociogender #psychologender #psychosociogender #phrenogender #phrenigender #neuro identities

[lesboy]

flag id: two flags with 6 stripes. the left flag’s stripes are dark faded indigo, medium dark faded sky blue, soft green, light sky blue, pink, and dark red-pink. the right flag’s stripes are dark pink, faded red, faded orange, light pinkish-red, bright blue, and dark blue. end id.

banner id: a 1600x200 teal banner with the words ‘please read my dni before interacting. those on my / dni may still use my terms, so do not recoin them.’ in large white text in the center. the text takes up two lines, split at the slash. end id.

velditrawoman | lesbitraman

velditrawoman/turitrawoman: someone who considers their attraction to men gay despite being a woman due to being trans

lesbitraman: someone who considers their attraction to women gay despite being a man due to being trans

[pt: velditrawoman/turitrawoman: someone who considers their attraction to men gay despite being a woman due to being trans

lesbitraman: someone who considers their attraction to women gay despite being a man due to being trans. end pt]

veldian trans woman and lesbian trans man versions of darcitrawoman and bennetraman for anon!

tags: @radiomogai, @orientation-archive | dni link

[lesboy]

Lesboyflux/lesboyfluid

I havnt seen any label like this one yet so, I figured I'd coin it!

Lesboy flux is an orientation where you're lesboy identity fluxuates or changes in some way

A few ways this can look are:

1) being Lesbiflux and a lesboy

2) because of the fact your gender changes in some way, the amount you feel like a "lesboy" may changed based on how much of a man/boy you feel in the moment (example, you're genderfluid, and you feel like a lesboy while you're male aligned or masc aligned, however you don't really identify with lesboy while fem aligned/female aligned.)

3) someones abrosexual and may not feel like a lesboy all the time as a result.

[lesboy]

Lesboy Turigirl

Lesboy Turigirl

ID: seven horizontal stripes. The colors from top to bottom are: dark magenta-ish purple, dark purplish blue, light purplish blue, pinkish white, orangish yellow, orange, slightly orangish hot pink. End ID

(Divider is a horizontal stretch of my lesboy turigirl flag)

For people who are both a lesboy and a turigirl in some way, a more specific subset of gaybian. Flag colors are based on both the common lesboy and turigirl flags.

[lesboy]

flag id: two flags with 6 stripes. the left flag's stripes are brown, faded pink-red, dull light pinkish-red, beige, light blue, and bright blue. the right flag's stripes are brown, faded pink-red, dull light pinkish-red, beige, soft indigo, and dark blue. end id.

banner id: a 1600x200 teal banner with the words ‘please read my dni before interacting. those on my / dni may still use my terms, so do not recoin them.’ in large white text in the center. the text takes up two lines, split at the slash. end id.

bambi lesbimasc | bambi lesboy

bambi lesbimasc: a lesbimasc bambi lesbian; a lesbimasc person who prefers cuddles, kisses, etc. over sex

bambi lesboy: a bambi lesbian lesboy; a lesboy who prefers cuddles, kisses, etc. over sex

[pt: bambi lesbimasc: a lesbimasc bambi lesbian; a lesbimasc person who prefers cuddles, kisses, etc. over sex

bambi lesboy: a bambi lesbian lesboy; a lesboy who prefers cuddles, kisses, etc. over sex. end pt]

anon asked for a bambi lesbian lesbimasc term and i figured i'd do a lesboy term as well!

tags: @radiomogai | dni link

[lesboy]

[FLAG ID: Two identical rectangular flags that are next to each other with 6 equally shaped stripes going from top to bottom. The colors in order are duqqa brown, brown bramble, hot hibiscus, jaffa orange, purple opulence, and schiava blue. / END ID]

BLACK LESBOY

[PT: Black Lesboy / END PT]

A flag for lesboys who are black!

Made by me, requested by anon.

Pinterest Archive Post

[PT: Black Lesboy. A flag for lesboys who are black. Made by me, requested by anon. Linked is a post to the Pinterest post of this flag. / END PT]

[lesboy]

✧｡:*▹ Lesboy for lesboy

PT/ Lesboy for lesboy /PT end

ID/ A flag with six equal stripes. Colors top to bottom are dark magenta, bright pink, light orange-pink, pale green, blueish green, and dark teal. /ID end

--

✧ Lesboy for lesboy also stylized as lesboy4lesboy

✧ Requested by @nubsoftherat; @lesboy-archive @mogai-sunflowers

ID/ a white DNI with a panel of the manga Oyasumi Punpun with 5 kids doing a joint pose. Words are black on the right side: “DNI: anti- ‘contradictory’ labels, anti-mogai, terf, gatekeeper, anti-decolonization, believes ‘narc abuze’ is real, demonizes ‘scary/evil’ disorders + labels.” /ID end

[lesboy]

[ID: a rectangular banner of a white lace-like pattern pointed downwards and shadowed in a blur with light purple. End ID]

[ID: a rectangular flag with 6 stripes coloured as such from top to bottom: deep purple, blue-purple, dull cyan, pastel yellow, dull pink-orange, dull magenta. End ID]

[ID: a rectangular flag with 6 stripes coloured as such from top to bottom: purpleish magenta, lilac, pink, off-white pink, lavender, dull purple. End ID] [ID: two thin rectangular light purple dividers. End ID

[PT: masculine lesboy - feminine turigirl for lesboys who are also masculine, for turigirls who are also feminine! End PT

masculine lesboy - feminine turigirl

for lesboys who are also masculine , for turigirls who are also feminine !

for day 1 of @caeliangel coining event ! my dearest apologies for being late . . @_@

[lesboy]

Some more shadow terms

Top Row: Shadowlesboy (right), Shadowveldigirl (left) Bottom Row: Shadowsaphboy (right), Shadowachilligirl (left)

In a similar vein to my other shadow terms, these terms are to denote identifying as Sapphic, Diamoric, or Achillean under certain circumstances or conditions. For reference one can look at the other Shadow terms such as Shadowgay [link] or Shadowenbian [link].

The terms Shadowlesboy and Shadowveldigirl have already been coined by @/neopronouns on this post [link] however the same thing with my Shadowsapphic+ post I just wanted to make my own with my sorta unspoken shadow flag design. Shadowsaphboy and Shadowachilligirl are new, I recommend just looking at the definitions for Shadowstellian+ or the post already linked for reference on the definition.

Shadowveldigirl can also be called Shadowturigirl.

[lesboy]

Flag Jewels - SproutFlags Day 2

LESBOYGXRL . A combo flag for beings that are both a lesboy/lesman/lesguy/etc while also being a gxrl. [being a girl but also being agender.] Someone might use this term because they are fluid between boy and gxrl and also a lesbian, feel that their gxrlhood is inherently linked to their lesboyism, or only identify as a lesboy when they are gxrl/gxrl when they are a lesboy. but anyone who uses both the lesboy and gxrl label can use this flag! ETYMOLOGY . Lesboy + Gxrl, lez-boy-girl TAGGING . Event - @sproutflags PT/ID Help? - @hoardicboy Archives - @radiomogai

Requested by No One

[lesboy]

Heteroflexible lesbian alt flags :3

[For a request on @the-mogai-request-graveyard, ask link]

-

So there actually exists heteroflexible lesbian specific flags already, see here. But I wanted to try making my own versions anyways, using @julietianboy's het/straight flag. I simplified the colours to just 5 stripes, by combining the 2 lightest pink colours, so they would match the lesbian flags. The lesbian flags I used are the sunset flag (first one), and aurora flag (second one). They're placed in the middle, like the other -flexible flags.

[lesboy]

flag id: two flags with 6 stripes. the left flag’s stripes are dark indigo, pink-red, light orange, very light sky blue, soft green, and medium dark faded purple. the right flag’s stripes are very dark faded indigo, dark faded purple, cyan, very light red-pink, soft green, and medium dark faded purple. end id.

banner id: a 1600x200 teal banner with the words ‘please read my dni before interacting. those on my / dni may still use my terms, so do not recoin them.’ in large white text in the center. the text takes up two lines, split at the slash. end id.

lesisoy | veldisirl

lesisoy: someone who is both a lesbian and an iso boy; an iso boy lesboy

veldisirl/turisirl: someone who is both a veldian/turian/gay man and an iso girl; an iso girl veldigirl/turigirl

[pt: lesisoy: someone who is both a lesbian and an iso boy; an iso boy lesboy

veldisirl/turisirl: someone who is both a veldian/turian/gay man and an iso girl; an iso girl veldigirl/turigirl. end pt]

for anon! the flags use colors from the lesboy, veldigirl, iso boy, and iso girl flags and the terms are 'lesboy' with the 'b' replaced with the 'is' from 'iso' and 'veldigirl'/'turigirl' with the 'g' replaced with the 'is' from 'iso'!

tags: @radiomogai, @ponygirl-izzy | dni link