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There was no Chloé Bourgeois  Redemption Arc
It’s time to for me to write about the so-called “Redemption Arc“ for Chloé Bourgeois, of Miraculous Ladybug infamy. Many people claim that such a thing existed. These people are wrong. While Miraculous Ladybug may provide the illusion of such an arc, that’s all it is - an illusion. And like all illusions, it falls apart once you touch it.
There’s also some questionable takes in regards to exactly how responsible Marinette is meant to be for Chloé’s “redemption”, which need to be tackled since they help feed into the illusion. And also because I find them deeply offensive. To me, personally.
A neccesary preface here is that I’m not saying Chloé is incapable of redemption. What I am saying, however, is that during seasons two and three of Miraculous Ladybug, the redemption arc people claim existed clearly did not.
Redemption 101
In the most basic sense, a redemption arc is a type of character arc where a bad character decides to stop being bad and start being good. Along the way, it’s generally accepted that they need to atone for their bad actions, and perhaps do something to reverse the damage such actions have caused. A critical component required for this to work is that the character both understands that their actions are harmful, and so decides to act in a better way.
Probably the most famous redemption arc in western animation is Zuko’s, from Avatar: The Last Airbender. Zuko begins the show as an antagonist, directly attempting to capture Aang, the Avatar and Last Airbender. Doing so will allow the Fire Nation to win the war, and also complete their genocide of the Air Nomad people. However, Zuko realises that supporting the Fire Nation’s bid for world domination is harmful to others, and himself. By the end of the series, he has rejected the worldview of his father, grandfather and great grandfather, and indeed helps Aang defeat the Firelord. Along the way, Zuko find a way to help not just Aang, but also Katara and Sokka, who are also victims of Fire Nation Imperialism. Zuko earns redemption not through the decision to be good, but by performing good, and in many cases, reparative actions.
Honestly, from this basic definition, I think it’s pretty obvious that Chloé hadn’t even started the first step of a redemption arc by the time she betrays Ladybug in Miracle Queen. She never accepts her actions are wrong, makes no attempt to change them without an ulterior motive, and generally continues to do bad things for bad reasons. But in spite of this, the claims of this mythical redemption arc don’t just exist, they are considered generally accepted. Why? It’s complicated, yet simple.
Chloé Who?
On a basic level, Chloé Bourgeois is fairly generic character - the “mean girl“ school bully, who torments the protagonist, Marinette Dupain-Cheng. In keeping with Miraculous’ superhero genre, Chloé admires Ladybug, Marinette’s superhero alter-ego. How ironic! Generally, Chloé acts as a minor, civilian-level antagonist to Marinette, who gets in the way, while being clearly much less of a deal than Hawk Moth. However, due to the mechanics of akumatization, Chloé’s actions often spiral into larger, supervillain-shaped consequences. Because while she may fit into the bully archetype, there is one thing that makes her somewhat atypical: a reach that extends far beyond the school setting.
André Bourgeois is his daughter’s primary enabler. As a rich person and Mayor of Paris, he has a significant amount of influence. Influence he makes freely available to Chloé for basically any purpose. No grudge is too petty, no problem too small when it comes to indulging her whims, and no bridge is too big burn. Nobody who theoretically has the authority to say no to Chloé actually can, because her father is implicitly approving her every action. It’s hardly a shock that Chloé is consistently terrible when she faces no consequences for her actions.
But there’s one last piece in the Chloé puzzle - Audrey Bourgeois. Chloé really wants her mother’s approval, but her mother lives in another country. Audrey is also a terrible person, a character who is literally defined by her vileness. She has Chloé’s attitude, and André’s level of influence, and like her daughter, immediately throws a tantrum when she can’t get her way. The attention Audrey gives towards her daughters is primarily negative, and that’s when she actually pays attention to them. Thus, Audrey provides Chloé with a Tragic Backstory, and some much needed Sympathy Points. This, of course, forms the foundation of the Redemption Illusion.
The thing about Chloé’s relationship (or lack thereof) with her mother is while it explains her behavior, it doesn’t excuse it. The harm she inflicts is no less because of it, and many of her actions cannot be ignored due to it. I think there’s a pretty obviously piece of bad logic here. Many characters who undergo redemption arcs are often sympathetic villains. Chloé is a sympathetic villain. But that doesn’t mean that Despair Bear, the episode that introduces this sympathetic side is the start of, nor the foundation of a redemption arc. If anything, Despair Bear shows the primary reason why Chloé isn’t on the path to redemption - her attempts to be “nice“ are motivated entirely to maintain her friendship with Adrien, and once she has what she wants, she immediately reverts to her normal behaviour. This theme of apparently good acts being done for selfish reasons will be repeated later.
Marinette: Victim, Not Victimizer
An important part of the Redemption Illusion is how it ultimately revolves around not just Chloé, but Marinette. Chloé is nothing but negative towards Marinette, but at the same time admires Ladybug… who is Marinette. This isn’t Alya style “wow look how cool and heroic she is“ style admiration, however. No, Chloé, in a sense, wants to be Ladybug. First by pretending to be her, and later via the Bee Miraculous, which would seem to put her on the same level as Ladybug. But since Ladybug is Marinette, this can only lead to conflict.
While Chloé has perpetrated many on-screen acts that are selfish, obnoxious and downright cruel, something that manages to slip under the radar is her pre-Origins treatment of Marinette. Sabine’s comment about how long Marinette and Chloé have been in the same class indicates that the latter has been bullying the former for at least three years. This has evidently damaged Marinette’s self-confidence, since even after being Ladybug in part one of Origins, she still thinks she can’t do it, and tries to give it up. She also doesn’t dispute Alya’s rather hasty assessment of Chloé as evil, and immediately assumes that Adrian is a bad person because he’s friends with Chloé.
Marinette’s relationship with Chloé is already poisoned at the start of the show. And it’s entirely Chloé’s fault. She didn’t have to bully Marinette. Being cruel to Marinette wouldn’t earn Chloé her mother’s approval. All it achieves is making Chloé feel better, by making Marinette suffer. Three years of bullying isn’t something you can ignore. It’s not something Marinette can simply “get over”, even as Ladybug. She probably hates Chloé, and every drop of enmity is earned. But how can I know this all from the limited picture painted by Origins, and the glimpses into Marinette’s pre-Ladybug life? I don’t. This isn’t something I needed to find from the text or subtext of the show. So then, how do I know?
I know because I lived it. When I was Marinette’s age, I was bullied. A lot. It hurt. But what people don’t want to acknowledge is that being a victim of bullying doesn’t just make you sad. It’s deeper than that. It made me angry. At the perpetrators, and the staff who let it happen, no matter how many times it was brought to their attention. It’s took me years to realise just how much it affected me, how my aggressive behaviour in certain online spaces might be connected to it. In Marinette, I see a part of myself. So when I see people claim that Marinette is somehow to blame for Chloé’s actions, that “Marinette should have given Chloé a chance“, it makes me a little angry. If someone told me I should be responsible for making my bullies better people, I’d tell them to fuck off.
Attempting to shift the responsibility for repairing Chloé’s bad behaviour on to Marinette is simply victim blaming with extra steps. Yes, Marinette is Ladybug, hero of Paris. But Marinette is also Marinette, a long-term victim of Chloé, and someone who Chloé continues to try to abuse, even if the efficacy is no longer there. It’s also not really fair to Chloé, either, when you think about it. Marinette is positioned to think the worst of Chloé, meaning she’s likely to see any regression on Chloé’s part as proof that the whole endevour is pointless. For Chloé to escape her toxic behaviour, she needs help from someone she hasn’t caused significant damage to.
And as with the rest of the Redemption Illusion, you have to ignore a lot of the text to make the idea that Marinette is somehow to blame seem reasonable. Marinette shows more compassion to Chloé than Chloé does to anyone in her entirety. It simply doesn’t help, because Chloé doesn’t want Ladybug to be nice to her, she wants Ladybug to accept her as an equal. And when that isn’t given, Chloé isn’t above trying to take it, with disasterous results.
Bad Bee-haviour
A key point in Zuko’s redemption arc is when he joins Team Avatar. This is when he truly abandons the ideals of Fire Nation Imperialism, and chooses to work directly against them. It’s not the end, but a midpoint. And it’s not a reward - it’s a duty, a commitment to help Aang defeat Ozai. I think it’s worth noting that Zuko actually gets weaker due to this, as he can no longer draw on his negative emotions to firebend. Only by helping Aang discover the pre-imperialism version of Firebending does he regain the ability himself. Rejecting the negative brings Zuko so far, but to be complete he must embrace a positive alternative.
Chloé’s transformation into Queen Bee is her anti-Zuko moment. She doesn’t work to attain it - the Bee Miraculous is literally dropped into her path. It gives her power, yes, which she immediately abuses. Queen Bee doesn’t exist to do good, like the other four heroes at the time. No, Queen Bee exists to exalt Chloé. Becoming a hero doesn’t move her to toward redemption. If anything, it moves her away from it.
It all comes back to Chloé’s first act as Queen Bee. In an attempt to prove that she’s “exceptional“, she transforms and tries to find a problem to solve. But when she can’t find one, she chooses to create one. By paralysing a train conductor, which ends up creating a problem she can’t solve. If it weren’t for Ladybug and Chat Noir’s timely intervention, a lot of people would have been injured, or even killed. All because Chloé wanted to seem like a “hero”. It’s an act so callous that it should have marked the end of her career as Queen Bee. It’s instant, irrevocable proof that she can’t be trusted with a Miraculous, because she nearly murdered a bunch of people with it.
But even if you ignore the train incident, being Queen Bee clearly doesn’t make Chloé better. In both Stormy Weather 2 and Miracular, her cruelty is what triggers an akumatization. In Animaestro, she forms a truce with Marinette entirely for the purpose of harassing Kagami. These are not the actions of someone trying to be a better person. Indeed, they look very much like the actions of a person who doesn’t think they need to change, and is thus continuing as usual.
Yet in spite of the lack of actual progress, Queen Bee is perhaps the keystone of the Redemption Illusion. She wants to be a hero. So it is assumed that if she wants to be a hero, she must be good. I suppose this line of argument sounds convincing, if you only consider it on the surface level. The problem is that it falls apart when you actually examine Chloé’s actual behaviour after becoming Queen Bee. Which is mostly the same as her behaviour before, except sometimes she tries leveraging being Queen Bee for status or bullying. This is because her motivation for being a hero isn’t heroic - it’s selfish.
Malicious Queen
Of course, the Redemption Illusion eventually collided with reality in the form of Miracle Queen. When Hawk Moth offers her the Bee Miraculous, Chloé doesn’t hesitate to take it, and is then willingly akumatized. While I do think this could have had a little more setup, it’s an action that’s entirely in-character for Chloé. She’s selfish, she’s cruel, and she’s unwilling to change. But Ladybug couldn’t be bullied or blackmailed via Chloé’s normal methods. So when Hawk Moth offers her a way around Ladybug’s No, of course she takes it. She accepts akumatization because she believes that the best way to prove her superiority to Ladybug is by harming her. The same way she harmed many other characters up to this point. (Including Marinette, who is Ladybug.)
Some people attempt, in the usual poor manner, to deflect Chloé’s responsibility for her actions onto Ladybug. Gotta keep that victim blame train going, I guess. The logic is that because Ladybug chose Kagami to help fight Heart Hunter for selfish reasons, Chloé is magically absolved of her guilt. I can’t disagree that picking Kagami in order to break up her date with Adrien was a bad thing, but in the grand scheme of things, it’s not that bad. The fact of the matter is that Ladybug probably wasn’t going to bring back Queen Bee, no matter the situation. It’s not her job to make Chloé a better person, and it’s not her responsibility to stop Chloé from making bad decisions.
Marinette made a dodgy decision because of a teenage crush and suffered massively disproportionate consequences. Chloé decided to help a terrorist because she felt entitled to the Bee Miraculous, and could still go back to her incredibly privileged life afterwards. It’s Marinette who had to live with the consequences of both their actions, becoming Guardian far earlier than she should have. A consequence that only occured because Chloé decided to help Hawk Moth. Once again, Marinette is not the problem; Chloé is the problem.
Ultimately, Miracle Queen is entirely in-character for Chloé, because Chloé has never been a good person. The Redemption Illusion persists, however, because people seem to have blended her few sympathetic traits with her occational (and temporary) good actions to create a version of Chloé who doesn’t exist within the show. Along with one last act, that really isn’t as heroic as it might seem on the surface.
The One Where She Isn’t Akumatized
In Miracular, Hawk Moth tries to akumatize Chloé and fails. Up to that point, akumatization had been presented as 100% effective, with no attempts to resist being successful. This is occationally used to suggest that Chloé is becoming good, which ignores basically all information the show provides about akumatization.
Throughout Miraculous Ladybug, succumbing to akumatization is never considered to be an immoral act. Indeed, the reasons for akumatization vary, from completely unjustified selfish reasons, to justified selfish reasons and more community-minded reasons. But no matter what a victim’s starting intentions are, Hawk Moth twists them around until he can make them into a supervillain. People are even akumatized over stuff like “kids don’t respect panthers“ and “ice cream was wrong“, which aren’t really things you can appy a moral judgement to.
Since being akumatized is not a moral failure, it follows that resisting is not a moral success. While breaking the akumatization is impressive, with very few people achieving it, that doesn’t mean Chloé gets merit points for it. Indeed, Chloé resists akumatization on the basis that she believes she can still be Queen Bee. She rejects Hawk Moth’s offer not because it’s the right thing to do, but because she thinks she doesn’t need it. Which is why once it becomes clear that Ladybug won’t be giving her the Bee Miraculous, she willing accepts akumatization.
But the real killer problem is that Sabrina is able to be akumatized into Miracular because of Chloé’s actions. When Lila’s fake Ladybug dance fails, Chloé takes it out on Sabrina, in a way that’s just, look, here’s the exact quote:
PLAY? With you!? Who are YOU anyway? You don’t have any powers! You’re a nobody! I’m a superheroine, okay? I’m Queen Bee! You and I have NOTHING in common! Go away!
That’s a horrible thing to say to someone, especially a friend! She explicitly ties Sabrina’s worth (or lack thereof) to having powers. And the real kicker? This is the last thing she does before the failed akumatization. Out of context, Chloé resisting akumatization might seem heroic. With this context? It’s anything but.
The Overdue Conclusion
Ultimately, a Redemption Arc is a narrative process for developing a character. It’s a trope, a storytelling pattern. The key element of such an arc is change. A static character cannot undergo a redemption arc (or indeed any arc), because the arc is the process of transformation, of becoming a better person. Not just on the surface, but in a fundamental way. A post redemption character is, in some ways, a different person to who they were before.
During seasons two and three of Miraculous Ladybug, Chloé does not change in such a way. She’s just as cruel and spiteful after becoming Queen Bee as she is before. She does bad things for bad reasons. Her motivation for being Queen Bee is entirely selfish. Indeed, while there is some feeling of a divide between Marinette and Ladybug, Queen Bee is simply Chloé with superpowers. And while she may be a victim of abuse from Audrey, that doesn’t mean she is excused from abusing others herself.
Chloé’s tragic flaw is her desire to be exceptional, in a way that places her above other people. This is why she fails to change. In the narrative of Miraculous Ladybug, the exceptional that matters is to be exceptionally kind, exceptionally couragous, exceptionally selfless. Character traits which Chloé displays sparingly and insufficently, because she believes she is above them. But without humility, there can be no change. Without change, there can no redemption. And while others might provide a catalyst for such a change, ultimately it must come from within.
The concluding point is that I still don’t think there was a Chloé Bourgeois Redemption Arc, but I can sort of see how you’d fall into thinking one existed. But when you actually examine the character’s behaviour, the illusion quickly crumbles. At this point, the whole thing has clearly taken on a life of its own beyond the source material, and is perhaps unstoppable. Will my long, somewhat rambly Tumblr post make much of a difference? Perhaps not.
But there are harmful ideas attached to it. As long as people try to make Marinette responsible for Chloé’s actions, it adds, however slightly, to the notion that the abused are responsible for the actions of their abusers. In many respects, I don’t care that strongly about these particular fictional characters. Yet other people do, and in doing so I see how they distort the role of victim and victimizer, and I care about that. I understand that it’s not a big serious issue, but it matters to me. So I’ll say my piece, and move on to other thoughts.
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This is why my fictional stabbing knives are liberally coated with poison.
Then all the character needs to do it get in a cut and wait.
one of my greatest pet peeves in fiction, and it is truly stupid I know, is that no one seems to understand how genuinely hard it is to kill someone via stabbing. stab wounds have a mortality rate of like 5%. especially abdominal stabbing. tv shows and movies show dudes getting stabbed one time in the lower abdomen with a tiny knife and then they fall over. like what did he die of precisely. that man died of Small Knife
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“The Batkids probably gave Dick so much shit when he first put on the Batsuit.” No. The Batkids all saw Dick in Bruce’s suit and all secretly felt nauseous about how wrong it looked. How wrong it felt.
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Gee, I thought these people were the ones who were like “If you don’t like it, you can just move to a blue state.”
And now they’re mad the guy is doing just that?
You can’t oppress and discriminate against someone then be mad when they take their highly useful skill elsewhere.
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Okay so I have an au where Qui-gon lies to the Council and doesn't go back for Obi-wan and where Obi-wan does not reach out to the Jedi. Obi-wan stays on Melidaan and becomes a Mercenary to help the economy and bring in resources. You can find a snippet on Ao3 HERE
Anyway, his Merc Company ends up being more of traveling, for hire, Negotiators (they still take other jobs but these are the ones they have reputations for). Mainly Obi-wan gets the reputation as The Negotiator by the time he's 20. It just evolves over time from being a 14 year old trying to get enough work to help Melidaan. Instead of as a Jedi.
While Obi-wan still follows the Jedi way as best he can (he runs into a lot of wandering Jedi who help) he still can't help being a little petty.
His mercenary companies slogan is "Negotiating Ceasefires When No One Else Can or Will" as a little dig against Qui-gon (who is banned from ever stepping foot on Melidaan. A mandate they send to the Senate. It's not the first one the Senates ever gotten for Jinn so it doesn't stick out until the War for Reasons).
They aren't afraid to bodily drag the opposition to the negotiating table and hold everyone there until a peace agreement is signed (something the Jedi can't do). Their unofficial slogan is "If A Child Can Do It So Can You".
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I attended a seminar on Legal Issues and the LGBTI community and one HILARIOUS side effect of same sex marriage getting legalised was in reality…horrible for estate planning and property disputes, but also sounds like an incredible fic premise
Before same sex marriage was legal a fair few gay couples got married in foreign countries; it had no effect in Australia but it was the principle of the thing. When it became legal, their marriages took effect in Aussie too.
This was wonderful for couples who were still together, but for couples who had broken up, and hadn’t bothered to go back to that foreign country to get divorced (and they rarely did)…they suddenly found themselves married again.
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character in a movie: Oh no, angry dog, please don’t bite me!
the dog: I’m at work! I’m doing so good at being at work! I’m barking because my handler gave the sign ‘bark’! I am going to get such a good grade in being a dog actor, which is completely possible to achieve, and normal to want! I am doing a great job! I am proud of myself for doing such a great job! I love this, because I’d make it physically impossible to get anything done if I wasn’t enjoying it! I’m barking!
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Please share this image to show that we still have not forgotten about Ukraine, and we are still believing. We are still here.
Слава Україні 🇺🇦
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REMINDER: russia still occupies parts of georgia and ukraine since 2008 and 2014, respectively.
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Dinner time
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Writing Prompt #2599
"You're devoted to causes."
"You say that like it's a bad thing."
"I'm devoted to people. I care about what happens to them when I run my mouth."
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Also, there are a tone of auxiliary options for people who don’t feel like running around with a lightsaber is for them.
There are teachers, healers, people who do maintainable and repairs on the spaceships, IT people, the thousands of staff required for the logistics to keep the temple running, not to mention the agricorps, etc.
Jedi are probably some of the most well-rounded people in the galaxy, whether or not they’re chosen as Padawans
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Casual reminder that, yeah, the Jedi train a lot with their lightsabers, but that they're also incredibly well-educated for the kinds of missions they take on, like Mace is just casually slicing into the power grid of this world here to find the person he's looking for and does so casually, this is the kind of thing that Jedi just know how to do as a matter of course. Sure, everyone has specialties, Jedi are better at some things than others, but in general they are trained to be extremely capable in a wide range of capabilities because their work needs them to be. You drop a Jedi in the middle of nowhere, they're not helpless, they have missions to complete, like those are skills that are valuable. I think a lot about the argument on how Jedi aren't prepared for any kind of life outside of the Temple if they choose to leave and how that just doesn't track for me. We see Jedi being trained in a wide variety of skills, we see them in advisory positions to various people, politicians, students, rebels, farmers, city planners, etc. You have to learn a whole lot of skills--skills that could easily be used in the wider galaxy even not as part of the Jedi--like if Mace wanted to leave the Jedi, he wouldn't just have to bounty hunt, he was a theater actor, he knows how to slice, he knows how to organize groups of people, he knows galactic history, etc. Jedi are trained to know how to do really valuable things, that's why people ask the Jedi to help them!
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An Alternate Theory on Imprinting
Twilight is one of those fandoms that I can never quite leave, because I have opinions on a lot of the fan theories.
One of those opinions is that Imprinting isn't about "making stronger baby wolves", but about making a bunch of traumatised teens and tweens who can suddenly shapeshift as stable as they can be.
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You wanna talk about settler colonialism? Talk about this:
During the two-year occupation of Melitopol, Zaporizhzhia region, Russia has brought over 100,000 of its citizens into the city
(Svidomi)
100k people in 1 (one) occupied city. I'm not talking about Mariupol, I'm not talking about Crimea, or Donetsk, Luhansk. It's just Melitopol, it's just the last two years.
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I work in Med Support, mostly admin and bookings.
Occasionally, we have trans people come in.
Our forms have "assigned gender at birth", because sometimes that's relevant in terms of calibrating the equipment.
A few weeks ago, we had a trans person who was in the middle of getting their legal ID to match their social ID, but their referral had been submitted using their social ID, which did not match the ID they gave me.
A few questions to sort out how this had happened, checking with my supervisor, a note to the people who write our Standard Procedures, and adding their legal name to the referral, and they were good to go.
It's really not that hard.
So I’m a phlebotomist. And sometimes, I work at a site that is directly adjacent to an endocrinologist. Which means I see and take blood from a lot of folks that are trans, or nonbinary, or gender nonconforming.
Do you have any fucking idea how easy it is, in customer-service speak, to respect someone’s gender?
I mean, I’ve had super awkward situations where I have to say things like ‘I’m sorry, that name isn’t coming up in our system. Is there another name…“ And without fail they provide their deadname and I plug it in and I say ‘Ok, that came up, do you want me to fix that in our system?” And they say ‘Yes’ and then I ADD IT AS A SYNOMYMOUS NAME. Same as I would for someone recently married or divorced. The end.
I have never experienced a situation in which I have felt motivated to ask someone’s pronouns.
I have had situations in which I have thought to myself ‘I have no idea if this person is ‘sir’ or ‘ma'am’ and instead have gone ‘Next patient please?’ or ‘I can help who’s next’ or ‘I can help you now’ while looking directly at them.
I have had situations where I’ve gone ‘I’m like 90% certain that I’ve been given a record with this person’s deadname because this name does not match at all the gender presentation of the person I’m looking at’ And I say ‘Ok, can you spell your last name for me? Ok, spell your first name? And your date of birth?’
and then I quietly write ‘preferred name [the name they just spelled] on the top of thier record.
THIS IS NOT HARD.
And if this is not hard for me, as a person working in medicine who has to make certain that the person I’m talking to is the same person on the medical record that I’m looking up, how much easier must it be for, say, a barista who doesn’t give half a fuck who you are? I’ve BEEN a barista in the past. If a Barista is asking your pronouns, that person is an asshole.
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