scripttorture

[scripttorture]

HA! OK that made me chuckle. I don’t know whether someone has been advertising my posts but I do not blaze them. I feel like given the subject matter making them appear in front of random people is a very bad idea.

The blog is about human rights abuses and torture. It’s about helping writers who want to tackle dark topics understand what they’re writing about. It exists to spread information on how survivors are effected, why they happen and how fiction has popularised a lot of ideas that justify or support them. 

If you want to learn more about some difficult topics you might find it interesting. If you want to see reviews of some popular movies and shows in terms of how well they handled torture, you might like the Torture in Fiction series. 

But this is more a labour of rage then love. Torture is abhorrent. The fact it still happens is infuriating. 

If you want to see my love it looks more like uh..... an obscene number of cheese fatayer. No seriously this recipe makes over 100, I have a problem. 

@scripttorture I’m concerned…

#another post without trigger warnings #I do have at least 30 fatayer in my freezer #Since stepping back from the blog #I've lost two jobs and I'm currently looking again #I'm still trying to get my life back on track #and feel in a place where I can pick it up #But I haven't forgotten you #and I do still intend to come back #Even if it's only to finish the outstanding asks #and write the masterposts I planned

[scripttorture]

OK so it’s unlikely there are going to be any posts for a little while.

The truth is that after (fuck) nearly five years of running this blog I really really need a break.  Sure I’ve taken time off before, but it’s usually been for something. Moving house, flying to a different country, going on shift work, and so forth.

Over the past few weeks looking back it’s been… kind of incredible to see how consistently I’ve kept this running despite everything that’s been going on in the background of my life. I haven’t really talked about it much on here but some highlights have included losing my job, moving house, massive ups and downs in my mental health, being attacked and a stabbing victim turning up on my doorstep at gods-know-what-time in the morning.

(Huh, the police still have my towels.)

Oh and there’s been two years of a global pandemic while working in medical testing. That’s been an interesting mess of high pressure and sudden changes.

The point is it’s been a lot. And I’m trying not to feel bad about not keeping up posting at the rate I used to or taking some time out.

This isn’t good bye. This project means a lot to me and it isn’t ‘finished’ to my satisfaction yet.

But I am taking some time out for the moment and I imagine things are going to be much slower for the next few months. I’m also stopping updates on the wordpress back up site for now. It never seemed to have much of a following and keeping it up to date was a huge source of stress.

So that’s where I’m at right now. I’m gonna do some gardening and some baking and play a lot of computer games and I’ll be back when I’ve unwound a bit. :)

#blog stuff #I just need some time to recharge. The last two years have been a lot

[scripttorture]

Any info on torture which includes whipping people naked, including on their genitals and face? I want to know what is possible, time frames, injuries or lack of, whip material, etc.

This question is probably a lot broader then you imagine Anon so this may take a while. :)

 As a general rule torturers avoid whipping the face and genitals. And this was the case historically as well as today. The reasons are purely practical: blows to the head are more likely to kill. Injuries to the face are more likely to result in things like blindness and injuries that limit the ability to breathe (leading to deaths).

 If we’re talking about historical slavery damage to the genitals reduced the value of enslaved people. If we’re talking about situations like historical European armies injuries to the genitals were viewed as ‘extreme’ and might have resulted in legal action. If we’re talking about modern torture injuries to the genitals are obvious and unlikely to be caused by anything but torture.

 Let’s take a quick tangent on types of whips in a broader sense.

 When I talk about whipping I categorise whips based on the kinds of injuries they’re likely to cause. (The main material of all the whips I’m describing is leather, because that’s what was predominantly used throughout history and the sources I’m drawing from here are mostly historical.)

 First we have non-scarring whips, these are lighter, rounded whips like riding crops. They can still cause serious injuries and they can kill but they’re less likely to break the skin because of their shape.

 Secondly we have scarring whips, these are longer whips with a squared edge. Picture a long, thin rectangular piece of leather rather then something braided into a round shape. The shape of these whips meant they were more likely to break the skin and as a result often left obvious scarring.

 Both of these types were in fairly frequent use historically.

 The third type was used more rarely, lethal whips. These were/are whips with metal embedded along the body of the whip. Picture those long leather strands from the scarring whips. Now imagine them with metal studs embedded throughout. Or hooks on the tips. Or spikes. Lethal whips tore the skin from the victim and often resulted in death.

 Whatever the other details in your story if you’re writing whipping I suggest choosing the type of whip in your story based on the results you want.

 Clothing isn’t going to make a difference in terms of protection for a lethal whip. It might make some difference for a scarring whip, but scarring whips would probably tear clothes anyway. Clothing would probably reduce bruising from non-scarring whips.

 In general clothing won’t change the injury pattern too much, although it could make a difference for the non-scarring whip. Historically a lot of victims were striped or partially stripped before being whipped. Which works in your favour because you’ll probably be able to find a lot of accounts.

 Once you’ve accounted for the type of whip the other big factor for the injury patterns is where the character is hit by the whip. Regardless of the type of whip you’ve chosen for your story some areas are more likely to cause disabling injuries.

 Blows to the joints can cause complex breaks and would often lead to disability. Blows to the stomach area can easily cause internal injuries to the organs and these can be fatal, especially in a historical setting.

 Blows to the head, regardless of what is used, have a significant chance of causing brain damage. This is not always fatal. But it is a complex, disabling condition with no prospect of improvement.

 I’ve been writing a story where the main character is injured and becomes brain damaged and I’m actually really enjoying it. However it’s not something I’d advise writing if you’re unsure about it or don’t have much experience writing disability. It’s complicated and effects a lot of different things.

 Blows to the head can also straight up kill someone.

 Blows to the front of the head/face… Well any kind of whip striking the eye means the victim is probably going to lose that eye. Blows to the face are also very likely to damage both the nose and jaw. This can easily kill in a variety of ways. Swelling can block the throat leading to suffocation. Bleeding from the inside of the nose can fill the lungs, leading to drowning. Broken jaws and lack of treatment can lead to death by starvation. I haven’t even considered infection-

 Blows to the neck from a whip have a high chance of killing someone. They can break the neck or cause swelling that limits a person’s ability to breathe or eat.

 Blows to the hands can break bones and I think they often ended in disability, ie being unable to use the hand.

 For blows to the feet see falaka.

 Genitals… I’d have to guess. I’m sure this has happened but I’ve honestly never seen a source. There are much easier ways to destroy a person’s genitalia.

 I would say internal tissue damage is likely. Cuts and severe bruising with one hit. I think there’s a decent chance of ripping the tissue and possibly tearing bits off. Honestly it seems a bit of a weird way to castrate someone or cut their clitoris out? Especially when globally people have been doing exactly those things for centuries in a much more straightforward manner.

 If you really want to use this I guess remember that female genital mutilation doesn’t necessarily effect fertility and does not effect someone’s hormones and while post-pubetal castration effects hormone levels and fertility it does not produce the same effects as a pre-pubertal eunuch. (Seriously look it up; the bone growth aspect is kind of cool in a ‘why did we do this to people?’ way.)

 As a general rule I tell writers that if they want a character to plausibly survive they should avoid describing a lot of blows to the head, face and neck.

 Can people survive these kinds of attacks? Yes, it has happened, but it’s a lot less likely. And I think it’s important to know when you’re writing whether your character was unusually lucky.

 Now there are areas of the body that are less likely to be straight up lethal and less likely to cause disabling injuries. The buttocks, thighs, shoulders and calves are usually… less lethal areas.

 But… beating someone to death doesn’t depend on where you hit. The ultimate cause of death when someone is beaten is often kidney failure and this happens because muscle cells are destroyed and the proteins they release into the blood destroy the kidneys when they reach a high enough concentration.

 I think that leaves time frames. And on that I don’t have solid answers. There’s a lot of variation because the deciding factor is often stamina.

 How long can you punch a pillow for without stopping for a breather?

 I think I did an experiment a while back and managed about 15 very quick blows with a belt in about ten seconds. And well, if we’re talking consistent, quick blows that’s the time frame beatings usually take place over. Seconds.

 Half a minute of continuous hits is a long time for any beating. A minute or several minutes is possible but pushing it. Both in terms of the stamina of the torturer and in terms of the victim’s chances of survival.

 When whipping was used historically as a public punishment, a display, the way this was typically done was by spacing out the blows and the number of lashes. So the torturer might take over two minutes to deliver ten blows. Because giving people time to take in what was happening was a large part of the point.

 But the punishment itself would also take place over several days, weeks or months. The victim might be brought out, given twenty of the hundred lashes they were sentenced to and then recuperate in jail for several weeks before it happened again.

 This wasn’t always the case, but it’s what people tended to do if they weren’t trying to kill the victim. And it’s the most common practice today in countries that still sentence people to flogging.

 This feels like a rather rapid fire over view but it was a very broad question. I hope it’s given you a starting point to think about what you want in your story.

 Remember to look through the tags on whipping, falaka, clean beating, scarring beating and caning for more information. :)

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#tw torture #tw scars #tw mutilation #tw genital mutilation #tw slavery #scarring torture #clean torture #slavery #whipping #falaka #castration #female genital modification #lethal whips #scarring whips #writing torture #time frames #writing victims #writing survivors #writing advice

[scripttorture]

So,please forgive me for this being super off topic, but you seem to have your ear to the ground on a lot of issues related to the proper representation of various groups of people in literature, specifically with the very sound advice that aspiring authors should seek to listen to the voices of people with real-world experience on a matter before trying to represent it in fiction. So on that note, I was wondering if you could point me towards any such resources on the topics of the experiences of sex workers, and the experiences of survivors of sexual abuse? Please don't trouble yourself if you don't have anything on hand, I just thought I might ask since you seem to be a very well-informed person about a lot of things. Thanks in advance!

I’m not a great source for either of those. I talk about sexual slavery occasionally but that’s very different to both consensual sex work and most sexual abuse.

 Scripttraumasurvivor’s archive has resources on sexual abuse and how to write survivors of sexual assault. I believe Scriptshrink also has some resources on the topic.

 I’m afraid I don’t know anything about consensual sex work or where to find resources on it. I use Kara’s collection of work on modern slavery for questions about sexual slavery, I also use interviews and studies by charities like Amnesty International and MSF for sexual abuse/slavery in war zones or during genocides. But as I said this is very different to consensual sex work.

 I think I’ll open this one up to the audience. Do any readers know of some useful resources?

Disclaimer

#tw torture #tw rape #tw sexual abuse #tw slavery #slavery #sexual slavery #slightly outside my area of expertise #writing advice

[scripttorture]

Oof Anon it depends on what you mean by ‘recover’. Aunty is right that a full physical recovery is completely possible. But doing something like this voluntarily is usually a sign of a pretty big Problem (ie an eating disorder, the most deadly type of mental illness), and being forced into a situation where they can’t eat (ie a famine or torture situation) is traumatic.

And trauma like this has long term psychological effects regardless of the person’s physical recovery.

You can read about the common effects of trauma here.

You can read my masterpost on starvation over here. The reference linking to the Minnesota Starvation Experiment should be really useful to you.

In fact I’d suggest reading the experiment because it gives you exactly the information you need in terms of physical recovery times and how re-feeding in famines usually works.

But you’re looking at a ball-park figure of weeks to months without accounting for things like illness. And starving people are a lot more likely to get sick. They’re also more likely to die from illnesses they pick up, even things like common colds.

Not eating enough is extremely dangerous to health. And even though a full recovery is perfectly possible things like epigenetic effects persist, passing on tendencies to be shorter and smaller to children.

The psychological effects of starvation are, frankly, fucking terrifying. As I said, read the masterpost, but the combination of emotional volatility and reduced empathy leads to some really hairy situations. Especially when you’re talking about famine and a whole lot of desperate, starving people.

These effects persist during physical recovery, which can make refeeding and recovery a tricky process.

Lower immune response also persists for a long time during recovery. The diseases that starving people catch more easily and are less able to fight off are the leading cause of death in famine hit areas.

Your character could reach a hospital, get the best care in the world and still die from a common cold while recovering.

Consider whether your character is in a traumatic situation. If they volunteered for this consider whether that illustrates a serious underlying condition. Because both of those are long term effects regardless of how good a recovery from starvation the character makes.

Mostly what I want to stress here is that starvation is no joke. Western culture’s diet industry and… to my mind weird attitudes to food often present eating less or not eating enough as harmless, even healthy or virtuous.

It isn’t. It’s one of the most dangerous, deadly forms of neglect the human body can experience. The knock on effects throughout the body are huge and the psychological effects are profound. And the fact those effects are temporary does not diminish their danger.

If you’re going to write starvation treat it as serious, as life threatening. Because it absolutely is.

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Supposing a character didn't eat anything or just a teensy amount of food for a month, how long would it take for them to recover and be able to eat normally again and would there be any effects in the long run?

Hey nonny! Human starvation is a Big Deal with Lots of Data around it.

Mostly your character would be fine AS LONG AS

A, they have enough body fat to sustain them (about 15 lbs would do it -- figure about a half pound per day)

B, they get plenty of water AND SALT (electrolytes), including potassium and magnesium, and preferably a multivitamin -- they will need more water than they think

C, they refeed slowly. Phosphorous is the big concern with refeeding, do it too fast and you can get wonky shifts. Small meals, gradually getting bigger after a few days.

Oh, and the first time they eat they WILL have to shit. As in, Disaster Pants. As in, RUNNING to the bathroom.

Check in with r/fasting on Reddit for plenty of examples of 30-day fasts.

Good luck with your story!

xoxo, Aunt Scripty

#tw torture #tw starvation #starvation #famine #effects of starvation #writing trauma #writing advice

[scripttorture]

I’m going to jump in here because the big scientific study on the effects of starvation is available for free online. It’s the Minnesota Starvation Experiment and you can find it here.

One of the big findings from the Minnesota Starvation Experiment was that there are a distinct set of psychological effects when people don’t get enough food. The study was done on volunteers, so we don’t have to consider trauma or danger when we’re looking at the results. 

I’ve got a post on the physical and psychological effects of not getting enough food over here.

These psychological effects are temporary. But they can take weeks to reduce and vanish. This is because it takes a lot of time for a survivor to recover to a healthy weight. As the Minnesota Starvation Experiment was mostly about trying to find better ways to treat victims of famine. There were huge impacts in relation to how relief workers give out food. Because you need to account for the psychological symptoms everyone is suffering from when you pull up with a truck full of food. 

Here’s where it gets a little more complicated. If your character is being deliberately starved or in a famine situation then trauma symptoms also come into play. 

You can read more about that here. 

Trauma symptoms are usually life long. With time and support survivors do improve and they generally can live happy, socially functional lives. 

But these symptoms don’t just disappear.

The last thing I’d mention as important is a set of physical effects from starvation. People who haven’t had enough food, whatever the reason, have a weaker immune response. They also have more difficulty sleeping which... suppresses immune response. 

The combination means that people who haven’t eaten properly are more prone to disease and infection. They are also less able to fight off disease and infection.

And these effects persist for some time during the process of recovery, which can further delay recovery. 

This is actually one of the biggest causes of death in famine situations. Not starvation directly, but the diseases people catch as a result of starvation. 

I hope this helps :)

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Can starvation lead to health problems in the future? I have a character that is given nearly nothing to eat for almost two weeks, and is only given enough water to keep him alive. Would this affect him even after he recovered?

Psychologically, yes. Physically, maybe/maybe not*.

I need to differentiate something here: fasting is choosing not to eat. Starving is not being able to eat even if you want to.

Psychologically, the two are WILDLY different.

Physiologically the two are different in that in a planned 2-week fast, your character would have salt to go with their water.

When people water-fast for health or weight loss or whatever reason, they usually drink PLENTY of water. Why? Because water helps keep them feeling full, keeps their blood volume up, and helps with lipolysis (fat breakdown: what their body will use for food).

But they also add plenty of salt, because humans are salty binches and your blood is 0.9% salt.

At the same time, if your character isn't on a very low carb diet, their kidneys are actually retaining fluid due to insulin presence -- one of it's many effects is that it causes the body to retain fluid.

So paradoxically, when they go on starvation, their insulin goes down, and their body starts to release that extra water stored as bloatiness.

Here's where I'm going with this: the body is extra sensitive to hydration status when starving. It requires more water in, and it DEFINITELY requires more salt. (If it does not get the salt it requires, it will strip it right off your characters bones.)

So I wouldn't see kidney damage as being unlikely in a no-food-minimal-water situation.

Psychologically, your character may have problems maintaining a healthy relationship with food after the fact. Hoarding or excessive eating may occur. Food fixation is one of the hallmarks of starvation (less so with fasting, where the character would have a choice). They will likely put ON weight in the month or two after their ordeal. (They're likely to lose about 5-15 lbs of water and 7lbs of fat in those 2 weeks). That amount of weight can be put on surprisingly quickly, and the body is ADAMANT about maintaining weight -- your character will be all but compelled to overeat until they're up past their previous weight.

Hope this helps!

xoxo, Aunt Scripty

#tw torture #tw starvation #starvation #famine #writing trauma

[scripttorture]

Ooof so we’re off to a good start. I was ill and stuck in bed most of last week so unfortunately there won’t be any more posts until next week. I’ll see you all then. :)

#blog stuff #this year has been awful for illness

[scripttorture]

Hello hello, I have a question about the tv show Columbo and the titular character. I'm so intrigued by how Lt. Columbo messes with the heads of murderers. He's done things like convince a chemist who offed his uncle that he's holding a box rigged with a pipe bomb. He deliberately induces paranoia in killers, and pushes them to the edge until they snap. Does that count as psychological torture? Bc I've had bouts of paranoia that nearly made me scream and I would Never survive his questioning.

I suggest not using the term ‘psychological torture’ because it uh… it’s got some baggage. It’s a term that’s usually used by torture apologists to dismiss and belittle the harm caused by certain torture techniques. Usually clean torture techniques, which are those that don’t leave lasting obvious scars. These are the majority of tortures today.

 I understand what you’re saying, and I understand most people don’t know this stuff. But uh… most of the time when someone says ‘psychological torture’ what they mean is ‘I don’t believe this is physically harmful.’ And most of the time it really is.

 There is not really such thing as ‘psychological torture’ as a separate category. There’s a whole host of ways people can be manipulated, coerced or abused without inflicting physical injury. These are wrong. But they do not necessarily fall under the legal definition of torture.

 I’ll talk about the legal definition first but I think that what you’re interested in isn’t exactly the question you’re asking. Because whether something meets the strict, legal definition of torture or not does not necessarily tell you whether it is harmful, wrong or illegal but covered under other laws.

 You can find the legal definition of torture here.

 Briefly: the UN Declaration against Torture defines it as: ‘any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted by or at the instigation of a public official on a person for such purposes a obtaining from him or a third person information or confession, punishing him for an act he has committed, or intimidating him or other persons.’

 I know this is a little dense but what it basically means is that for an act to be torture it must:

Be done by a government official, group that controls territory or someone that represents them.

Painful

Done knowing it would inflict pain

Done for one of the four defined motivations

 Attempting to force a confession is one of the defined motivations. However for the kind of act you describe to meet the definition a prosecutor would need to prove that it causes pain and that the person doing it knew that in advance.

 Triggering someone’s paranoia is not necessarily torture because it can be done without knowing the person is paranoid or knowing the pain triggering paranoia causes. This does not make triggering someone’s paranoia OK. It does not reduce the pain it causes. But it can be done without understanding it will cause pain.

 So, no. I do not think that this would be defined as torture.

 However I think it could be entrapment. Pressuring someone into incriminating themselves is a crime in a lot of places.

 It’s also not… a very accurate way of trying to figure out whether someone actually committed a crime. As you point out, mental illness can effect things making people act in ways that are read as ‘guilty’, which is part of what leads to higher rates of charges.

 There’s also a pretty high rate of false confessions in scenarios like this, regardless of the mental health of the suspects. Coercion of this kind leads to an awful lot of false confessions. Which means that it’s both immoral and bad practice.

 There’s an awful lot of fictional tropes in crime fiction that don’t just depict bad practice but things that are straight up immoral. I watched some Columbo for the first time during the pandemic and while I enjoyed it, I agree that this… isn’t the way real law enforcement should behave. At least not if the aim is genuinely finding people responsible for crimes and holding them accountable.

 I don’t think the use of these tropes and conventions in fiction is always a problem. But people not understanding or recognising the reality, believing the fiction is reality, I think that can be a problem.

 Now obviously my focus is torture. The fictional tropes about torture specifically are often taken to be ‘real’ by readers/viewers because accurate information on torture is hard to find. And that has an effect on everything from reporting to policy.

 My impression is that the situation surrounding tropes in crime fiction more broadly isn’t quite as dire. There seems to be increasing understanding of how investigations are conducted both in fiction and in general public awareness.

 There is still a big stress on interrogation and dramatic confrontation in fiction. I think that’s because it’s easier to write in a way that’s tense and compelling.

 Don’t get me wrong, this sort of stuff does still happen in real life and it leads to a lot of false confessions and wrongful imprisonment.

 As for any stories you want to write- I think that if you want to show a detective as competent and good at their jobs, it’s probably better to show them actually investigating rather then browbeating or coercing people.

 In the scale of things I think Columbo handles this stuff better then a lot of other crime shows made at the same time. That doesn’t necessarily mean it’s always comfortable viewing, depending on your own limits and comfort zones. And it doesn’t mean that the show is perfect.

 I hope that helps :)

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#writing advice #tw torture #police officers #police and torture #forced confessions #entrapment #crime fiction #Columbo #legal definition of torture #mental health #mental illness in fiction

[scripttorture]

This came through shortly after I closed the askbox because I was ill and needed a break but I thought it was probably best to take it rather then leave this author waiting. Also it’s falaka and I grew up in the Middle East (let’s not unpack the way torture techniques can make me think of home. Google ‘Saudi Arabia Human Rights’ if you’re interested.)

So good news larrylashton98, this sounds like a very plausible scenario to me. These kinds of tortures happen. Burning was much more common historically but beating or whipping the soles of the feet (falaka) is still very common today. 

The answer depends on the detail, so I think the best thing to do here is tailor the detail in the story to fit the result you want.

The damage falaka does depends on the implement that’s used. 

As a general rule something rigid, like a piece of metal, will break the bones of the feet and sometimes the legs as well. This would make walking immediately afterwards more or less impossible and can be straight up lethal. This form of falaka doesn’t tend to happen much anymore (at least not in contexts that meet the legal definition of torture.)

Something more flexible, like a thin wooden stick, will break the skin, leaving lacerations and visible scar tissue. This would make walking extremely painful and dangerous, but not necessarily impossible. The cuts would likely worsen and infection is a possibility. My guess (based on historical anecdotes) is that this could effect balance and mobility in the long term but wouldn’t prevent walking.

The character might have a lasting limp, use a cane, lack dexterity and fall over more often. 

Now I don’t know whether modern medicine could prevent that entirely. My guess would be that it would depend on how quickly the character gets treatment and how thick the scar tissue on the soles of the feet is. Because scars are less flexible then skin and have a sort of shrinking effect. Which in turn effects things like balance and how far the character can comfortably walk.

Now ‘clean’ falaka (so called because it tends not to leave obvious physical scars) is done with something soft, rounded and flexible. In the old days they used silk rope, now it’s more likely to be a hosepipe. This causes painful swelling in the feet and it does make walking extremely painful. But the character would probably be able to walk more quickly and to make it further without falling over. 

There are still effects on balance and mobility for clean falaka, but they’re not as noticeable as they are with scarring falaka. 

Both clean and scarring falaka can kill, just to be clear. But a person is more likely to survive clean or scarring falaka then they are having their feet turned to pulp by a metal pipe. 

Falaka with a metal implement would mean that the character might never walk normally again. And if he did it would be after years of surgery, physiotherapy and healing. With scarring falaka I think lifelong mobility issues are likely, but the character would still be able to walk after about 1-3 months. He might improve with physio. With clean falaka the character could be walking normally in a few weeks if he’s lucky. The swelling goes down very quickly. But the pain and weakness often take a little longer as the internal injuries take time to heal.

Now burning the feet is trickier. I’d say this died out in most places by the 50s. There are a couple of different ways this happened depending on how uh... historical you want to be.

If we’re talking northern Europe 1000 AD, branding or just putting someone’s feet in the fire was the way this was done. And as you might imagine that results in being unable to walk the rare times it didn’t result in death. 

I get the impression you want something more modern in your story though. More recent variants were usually either stubbing out cigarettes in a person’s feet or dousing them flammable substances (usually alcohol) and setting it alight. 

The second version is more of a problem in terms of walking. The chances of infection from walking on the wounds is pretty high, so is the chances of extensive scar tissue. Which would lead to similar long term problems as scarring falaka. I think the recovery time would be longer in this case because things like skin grafts might be necessary. I say this because I think it’s likely significant chunks of skin would come off as the character walked on the burns.

I think this would also be painful for far longer after the initial attack. Burns are notorious for causing long term chronic pain, and this method would mean a lot of burns over a very sensitive part of the body. 

Cigarette burns wouldn’t necessarily cover the whole sole of the foot. They also wouldn’t necessarily cause burns as deep into the skin. Walking on them would be incredibly painful. It would cause blistering and probably infection. But it wouldn’t... skin the foot the way the previous scenario would. 

I think that, so long as the burns cover 30% of the sole or less, the effect on long term mobility would be less drastic then scarring falaka. I think there’d still be a reduction in how flexible the feet are, so the character would have worse balance and might not walk or run as well as he used to. 

My guess for more-or-less normal walking in these scenarios would be about 1-2 months for cigarette burns and something more like 6 months to a year for alcohol. 

If you want to mix these together, I’d suggest using cigarette burns with either clean or scarring falaka and raising the recovery time. I don’t think it would be a good idea to mix falaka with dousing someone’s feet in alcohol and setting it alight if you want the character to walk normally again. 

I hope that helps :)

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Hello! I have a character who was tortured with the bottom of his feet getting burned and/or whipped. There's only one part when he HAS to walk (he's stumbling, limping, and crying but adrenaline is getting him through it (not from his POV)). How long would it take for him to be able to walk normally again? I know it probably depends on how bad it is, but I haven't gotten that far with it yet- I've mostly been working on other parts of the story. Love all your help!

I am going to pull a Cowardly Scripty(TM) and point all torture asks to @scripttorture, who may not give you the answers you would like to hear but will always give the ones you need to hear.

#writing advice #tw torture #tw scars #scarring torture #falaka #burning #clean torture #writing victims #injury patterns

[scripttorture]

Well prince-luffy I am not going to look up this specific case. I can tell you a little about why survival rates vary in these kinds of scenarios but I warn you that the answers are not narratively satisfying. 

 It’s also worth pointing out that this is not a torture case. Torture is a legally defined term and the definition depends on who is doing the abuse, not the type of abuse taking place. Unless the attacker was an on-duty police officer, soldier or other government official this is abuse, not torture. 

The difference can make a difference to survival rates. Because torture is institutional abuse. This means that there is, at least theoretically, oversight and on site medical facilities.

 Now in practice that doesn’t make as much of a difference as you’d think for this question. It can be incredibly difficult to prove torture took place and bringing torture charges is a long, complicated process. Torturers in jails, army barracks etc are often not reprimanded and generally still have access to victims long after complaints are lodged. On site doctors have sometimes been invaluable in gathering evidence and saving lives, but they have also propped up torturers and provided false medical reports to cover up evidence of torture.

 In the kind of abusive, kidnap scenario that I think you’re asking about there probably isn’t going to be medical assistance on hand. But there is also probably only going to be one or two abusers, as opposed to dozens in a torture scenario.

 So let’s start off with two facts.

 Firstly beatings usually cause death by kidney failure (unless there’s a head injury that causes death more immediately.) The way that happens is that the attack destroys muscle cells in the body. When these cells burst they release large proteins into the blood stream. The body directs these proteins to the kidneys for removal. If the level of these proteins in the blood is too high the kidneys can’t deal with the sheer amount of protein they have to filter out. They fail.

 This does not necessarily cause death instantly. The injury could be inflicted and the kidneys could start to fail several days before the victim actually dies.

 Secondly beating someone is physically exhausting for the attacker.

 The last time I tried to illustrate this it was with a boxing match. The basic idea is that if you watch a professional, sporting fight and time the bits where the fighters are actually actively hitting each other… it’s not very much time at all. Most of the time in each bout is spent circling each other, dodging and recovering from the short bouts of intense activity (ie hitting.)

 In an abuse setting, where there is only one abuser, this reduces the damage inflicted. Because there aren’t another ten people lined up to take over the beating when the first abuser has to stop and sit down for a moment.

 This, and the toxic sub-culture that typically surrounds legally defined torture, can effect the pattern of attacks and abuse.

 In a torture scenario there’s usually a concentrated period of assaults during the first few days a victim is held. After that attacks typically become less frequent. Partly because the aim isn’t to kill and partly because in the intervening time new victims are brought in splitting the torturers’ attention.

 In an abuse scenario, like the one you’re describing, you’re more likely to see more intense attacks after that initial 2-3 day period. But those attacks are also likely to be shorter and more spaced out.

 Here’s where it starts to get more complicated: attacks like this are uncontrolled and the injuries can vary hugely.

 Someone can be hit once in the head and die. Or end up brain damaged or comatose.

 Someone else might survive being beaten once a day for months or even years at a time.

 The difference is partly down to things like where the abuser is beating their victim, what they’re using and how often/intense the individual attacks are. But it’s also partly down to luck and factors that have very little to do with the attacks.

 How clean is the room? Did the victim wash their clothes recently? Both of those can potentially effect infection rates and hence survival.

 How well fed is the victim during their imprisonment? Is the water clean? Can they wash their own wounds?

 How good are their kidneys? How tough are their bones? Do they get by with fractures and simple breaks or is the marrow from major bones leaking into the blood?

 The human body can survive a truly remarkable amount of injuries. Sometimes. If the person is lucky.

 It can also shut down completely if it’s hit in the wrong spot.

 If you want to write a story with this kind of protracted period of imprisonment and constant attacks and you also want the victim character to plausibly survive here’s what I advise writing:

Avoid head injuries

Avoid beatings with heavy, dense objects

Avoid blows to the neck

Avoid burns to the face, genitals and anus

Avoid burns covering more then 20% of the skin

Give the victim character access to food, clean water, hygiene facilities and a place to sleep

Keep attacks at a ‘realistic’ level. Ie beatings last seconds not hours, pauses of sveral minutes or hours between attacks etc

Write days when the victim character is just left alone

 You might want to take a look through my tags on writing torture, clean beatings and beatings. You might also want to take a look at this masterpost on the long term psychological effects of torture, which will still apply in a scenario like this. You might also find this masterpost on how to judge the level of detail when writing attacks helpful.

 I hope that helps. :)

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This is actually a real world case, but I'm curious about it for fictional purposes. I'm not sure if you've heard of the Junko Furuta case where a girl was kept captive for 44 days and subjected to just a battery of horror. Beatings with fists, bats, and weights. Burnings. Sexual abuse. The Wiki page has more information. I'm curious, how did her body put up with it for so long before giving out? What happens in a long-term torture situation that allows a person to survive for an extended amount of time?

This is a MUCH better ask for @scripttorture, check their archives and see what they have to say about torture in fiction. (Me referring you does not count as actually asking; please resubmit with them.)

The research on this is going to be a "nope" for me today, but they're an EXTREMELY good resource on this stuff and hella knowledgeable.

Best of luck!

#writing advice #tw torture #tw sexual abuse #tw kidnapping #tw rape #tw scars #scarring torture #abuse #beatings #survival rates #writing victims #writing survivors #behaviour of torturers

[scripttorture]

AAAAAAAaaand I’m back! The shifts are over and I’ve had a little time to recombobulate.

Welcome to all new followers. It is weird here. Remember to heed the trigger warnings and don’t push yourself too hard. And I hope you find this resource helpful for your writing. :)

The current plan is to clear the backlog of asks, sticking to the week on/week off structure I’ve been trying this year. I’m thinking of keeping the askbox closed for a week or two after I clear it in order to work a little on masterposts. (Remember when I did those?)

I’ll let everyone know when the askbox is opening up as soon as I do. In the mean time, I need more caffeine. 

Alright so, I am still alive. 

Work continues to be pretty hectic and stressful. I work in pharmaceutical testing and the latest drug requires round the clock tests to simulate patient useage. Which means I’m currently on shifts and working weekends. (Including this Saturday! Yaaaay :( )

I am still plugging away at answering everyone’s questions. Given the situation at work though I doubt I’m going to start posting again until the end of August. 

I just need the break, there’s only so much my mental health can take. (On a related note can the people who are @ing me about blog related things while I’m taking a mental health related break please…. Stop? Because if you can’t respect my limits I will block you)

Thank you for your patience. I’ll see you all in a few weeks. :)

#blog stuff #still alive #and existing in a sadly under caffinated state

[scripttorture]

Alright so, I am still alive. 

Work continues to be pretty hectic and stressful. I work in pharmaceutical testing and the latest drug requires round the clock tests to simulate patient useage. Which means I’m currently on shifts and working weekends. (Including this Saturday! Yaaaay :( )

I am still plugging away at answering everyone’s questions. Given the situation at work though I doubt I’m going to start posting again until the end of August. 

I just need the break, there’s only so much my mental health can take. (On a related note can the people who are @ing me about blog related things while I’m taking a mental health related break please.... Stop? Because if you can’t respect my limits I will block you)

Thank you for your patience. I’ll see you all in a few weeks. :)

#blog stuff #another post without trigger warnings

[scripttorture]

Question: how much damage would beating someone with a chain cause? Assume I'm talking about an otherwise healthy adult male

Unless it was a very light chain it would probably cause lethal damage in a few strikes/seconds.

 A chain can be made of different materials to different weights and thicknesses. So for the sake of clarity I am picturing a metal chain of width wider then two fingers, with a weight that’s at least several kilos. These are not common torture implements, which means I’m extrapolating based on what I know, rather then consulting a statistically sound modern data set.

 Lethal whips, which are predominantly leather but studded with metal, strip skin and fracture bones.

 A chain would break bones, split skin and probably cause damage to internal organs. I think that in order to survive a character would have to be hit very few times, have immediate access to modern medicine and be very lucky.

 A single blow to the head would be enough to break the skull and cause significant brain damage. If struck in the front of the face it would likely break the nose and jaw, possibly causing enough damage that the victim would suffocate. It could also blind the character.

 This is assuming it didn’t kill them outright. A single punch to the skull can kill someone if they’re unlucky. A blow with a chain could definitely kill.

 Blows to the body would break the ribs and possibly the spine as well (depending on the weight of the chain and amount of blows.) Broken ribs could be forced into the lungs with further blows. A broken spine often leads to paralysis.

 Blows across the belly or lower back would probably damage the internal organs and I suspect that they would be lethal. However I am not a doctor and I am not confident enough in my knowledge to say exactly what would be damaged and how.

 A blow to the hips could potentially fracture the hip bone. Which is incredibly serious.

 I think a blow to the neck would straight up kill someone.

 Defensive injuries to the arms and legs would probably break the arms and legs. They could lead to complex breaks, a very long recovery time and possibly permanent reduction in fine motor control and strength. But that’s actually the most survivable scenario: one or two blows that only hit the arms or legs.

 Death would probably be down to a combination of blood loss and multiple organ failure or uh whatever the correct medical term is for ‘too much widespread damage to everything for the body to fix it.’

 So there are a lot of different potential injuries depending on how the attack plays out.

 As a general rule I’d say if you want the character to live without disability then uh… may be pick something else for the other character to hit them with? A belt would be dangerous but would have a much better survival/physical recovery chance.

 If on the other hand you want to write a disturbing attack with awful long term consequences or a murder scene, this is a really good choice.

 With a surviving character you might want to take a look at the masterpost on common symptoms over here.

 I hope that helps. :)

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#writing advice #tw torture #tw scars #tw mutilation #scarring torture #lethal torture #lethal whips #broken bones #major organ failure #disabling torture #writing torture

[scripttorture]

If a story is set in the late 1980s, in Australia, would you expect the forms of coercion used by Australian Special Forces to be noticeably different from the forms of Torture used by UK Special Authorities? Or would they be much the same? If they're trying to extort information from scared, but resistant, highschool girls, how far would they go? I don't want the story to involve rape, and I'm trying to avoid threats along those lines, but I still want verisimilitude. Sorry if this is off topic

Not off topic at all though the answers can be hard to find sometimes.

 Before I go into Australian torture, this is your regularly scheduled reminder that torture does not work as an interrogation technique. I’ve got a Masterpost here on writing torture in an interrogation context (and how to show it failing.) It has links to more posts on why torture doesn’t work for those wanting more information. :)

 Rejali, who is a pretty good source for National Styles during the 80s globally, does not mention Australia at all. The references I have to Australia in most sources are in the context of colonial torture and other abusive practices by the British. Going through my usual textbook sources I can’t find a single reference to Australia after independence.

 Most of the online sources I go to talk about modern torture in Australia in one of four contexts:

Chinese-Australians speaking about their experiences in China

Aboriginal Australians describing modern torture and abuse in the context of racism in Australia

Cover ups by religious groups in Australia for historic and more recent crimes

The Australian immigration system (off shore detention)

 The latest references to Australian torture after independence that I’ve found were from 1994. The majority are from the early 2000s or the 2010-2020 period. Everything I found referred to police officers not the army or special forces.

 Unsurprisingly the most common torture method I found was beating. I also found references to temperature tortures, solitary confinement and Taser use. However the older references don’t mention Tasers and I could not find a clear date for when Taser use in Australia started.

 Basically what I’ve found is a massive gap in global torture studies with Australia being consistently overlooked.

 Without clear information I think the best course of action for your story is to make up a National Style that fits the general global pattern and seems consistent with the little bits of evidence we have. I think the most reasonable thing to do is to try and approach this logically. That way even if what we create doesn’t line up to the reality of Australian military torture in the 80s, it will at least seem plausible.

 By the 80s clean tortures were the most common global torture techniques. So we’ll stick to clean tortures.

 Some clean torture techniques have remained fairly niche. There isn’t any clear evidence for why some torture techniques spread and others don’t. But we can probably rule out torture techniques particular to one country’s National Style.

 Some clean torture techniques are so common globally that it’s fair to assume they’re used in every country. These are: beating, starvation and sleep deprivation.

 Stress positions and electrical torture are both globally common in this period. Both were widespread in Western countries (though Britain has rarely used electrical torture it is an exception to the general pattern.) I’d suggest going with stress positions over electrical torture, on the basis that I have no idea whether Australian special forces at the time would have had Tasers, stun guns, magnetos etc as part of their general equipment. However if your own research suggests special forces would have had easy access to these devices, then electrical torture would be quite likely.

 Australia does not have a history of using pepper, so far as I know and I wouldn’t describe the mainstream cuisine as relying on mild irritants like chili peppers. So I think pepper can be ruled out.

 The climate throughout most of Australia makes temperature torture relatively easy and that makes it more likely. You can read about heat exhaustion and heat stroke on ScriptMedic’s blog over here. Some countries have paired temperature torture with dehydration by rationing water in hot climates.

 Without clear evidence that they occurred I don’t think it’s a good idea to pick waterboarding or dry choking tortures. Their popularity has fluctuated a lot over the years, they tend to be either very common or non-existent in a country and they come with some pretty serious long term injuries for victims when they go wrong.

 Forced exercise isn’t as common as choking tortures generally. But it’s incredibly simple and incredibly difficult to prove, which I think makes it a good fit for your story.

 So that gives a you this as a general list to pick from:

Beatings

Starvation

Sleep deprivation

Stress positions

Temperature torture

Dehydration

Forced exercise

 Depending on what you want from the story and how long these characters are held you might want to focus on some options and rule out others.

 Starvation and sleep deprivation typically take place over several days. Dehydration, stress positions and temperature tortures become painful over several hours. Beatings and forced exercise are more immediate. Stun guns and Tasers (if you want to include them) are also more immediate.

 Now that I’ve talked about what’s plausible I’d like to make one thing clear: your comfort while writing this story matters.

 No matter how ‘likely’ or ‘realistic’ an abuse if it makes you uncomfortable to the point you don’t want to write about it that is a valid decision.

 I could justify that with the fact that these attacks are varied and not every victim suffers the same abuse but to be honest as writers there are times when we should break from reality. And preserving our own mental and emotional health is definitely one of those times.

 We are not obligated to show or represent everything. You, as the writer, will always be with the story long then any reader. Be kind to yourself.

 Which leaves the rather more nebulous question of ‘how far do torturers go.’

 And there is no clear cut answer to that question. The evidence we have does not suggest a consistent pattern.

 Here are a couple of examples from real cases of when torturers stopped for a while:

The victim died

The victim passed out

The victim was so mutilated or injured they required emergency medical care to live

A new victim was brought in

The torturer got tired

The torturer got hungry

The torturer got bored

The torturer needed to go to the bathroom

The torturer got called away by someone they couldn’t ignore

The torturer’s friends got bored

The torturer’s friends got tired

The torturer’s friends got hungry

 That’s a non-exhaustive list.

 Torturers have stopped in some cases because they believed something a victim said. But they have also kept going in exactly the same circumstances.

 There are recorded cases of torturers continuing to torture victims who couldn’t speak the same language, victims who couldn’t speak, victims who were clearly unconscious and victims who were clearly dead.

 Torture is not a controlled process and torturers are not in control of the violent situations they create. They will often claim that they are. But the evidence suggests they behave in a random, inconsistent fashion with little insight or acknowledgement of the consequences of their actions.

 This means that we can not predict how far torturers will go. The answer is too varied, even when concentrating on an individual torturer.

 So approach it as a writing decision: how far do you want them to go?

 These children are going to suffer some of the long term symptoms of torture regardless.

 Do you want any of the characters to die? Do you want any of them to have lasting physical injuries? What kind of physical injuries or disabilities fit with the story you want to tell? How long do you want the characters to be held? Why are they released? Do you want every character to be treated in the same way or do you want the torturers to focus more on one character?

 How does this incident effect the relationships between the victim characters? How does that influence the rest of the plot? Do any of the characters feel guilty or somehow to blame for what they survived? Do they see any sort of justice? If so how long does it take?

 Think about the answers to those questions and think about what serves the story.

 A choice that furthers the plot, adds interesting challenges or conflict for the characters and/or furthers narrative themes is going to be a good choice.

 I hope that helps :)

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#writing advice #tw torture #tw sexual abuse #tw police brutality #tw racism #National Styles #writing torture #writing victims #writing torture scenes #modern torture #clean torture #beatings #starvation #sleep deprivation #stress positions #temperature torture #dehydration #forced exercise #behaviour of torturers

[scripttorture]

When someones wrist is dislocated for a few hours and then popped back into place does their wrist have to be wrapped up to keep it there or will i be ok

I have no idea Anon, I’m not a medic and I don’t have the expertise to say for sure. I recommend taking a look through ScriptMedic’s archives to see if you can find your answer. The NHS website is another good source on the treatment of simple injuries.

 Sorry I couldn’t help more.

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#writing advice #tw torture #beyond the scope of the blog

[scripttorture]

I need a break

So I was hoping to avoid this but things have come to a head and I need to shut the ask box and take a break for a while. I am honestly not sure how long. The last couple of months have been really hard on me and have included car accidents, multiple rounds of car repairs, trouble with my prescriptions, stress at work and multiple bouts of illness. 

The upshot is I’m really not doing well at the moment. I keep telling myself things will get better but stuff just seems to keep piling up. 

So there won’t be new posts for a while after the queue runs out this week. When I feel up to coming back I’ll clear the ask backlog. But I can’t say when that will be right now. 

Disclaimer

#blog stuff

[scripttorture]

In what instances would ICURE fail to change someone's beliefs? Would access to outside information or (not very good at their jobs) guards discussing events without tact help someone realise something fishy was going on?

Very broad question without clear, satisfying answers Anon.

 Basically: there is no guaranteed way to change a person’s mind. There are strategies we know can’t work. But everything that has a chance of success also has a chance of failure. And it isn’t a clear cut thing that I can give you a clean list of factors for.

 Humans are difficult creatures to study because they come with a lot of inbuilt confounding factors and individual variation. This makes it very difficult to identify clear reasons why something didn’t work. Because we have to assume that multiple factors are at work and the interaction of those factors may be as important as each factor individually.

 Even if you write your villains performing ICURE ‘perfectly’ there is still a chance of failure. And therefore it is realistic for you to decide it fails for this character.

 We can’t really study which ‘bits’ of ICURE are most effective. Partly because of that little thing called ethics but partly because setting up a study would be incredibly difficult. It’s hard enough to measure belief. Finding a large enough sample size, controlling for every possible confounding factor or variable and studying people for the years it would take to get any answers… It’s a big ask. It’s probably never going to happen.

 So with the caveat that we can’t tell if any of the parts of ICURE are more important let’s talk about how they can break down.

 ICURE, for everyone who hasn’t heard me talk about it before, is a set of techniques which can (sometimes) be used to manipulate a person into changing their views. They take months or years to have any real effect and as mentioned they’re not always successful.

 The acronym stands for Isolate, Control information, create Uncertainty, Repetition and Emotive responses. And if you’re writing a story where villains are trying to apply this but not doing it well it can break down at literally any one of these points.

 I would say based on what I’ve read that different groups focus more heavily on different aspects depending on their setting and strategy. Groups that are straight up kidnapping or imprisoning people often seem to focus more heavily on isolation and controlling information but often fall down on the other three. Whereas the impression I get of cults and some extremist political groups is that they focus more on creating uncertainty and emotive responses, which they can then use to further isolate members from family and friends.

 Controlling information is a common place for ICURE to break down nowadays. The rise of the internet and the decreasing size of devices has made it easier for victims to access unauthorised sources even when imprisoned.

 But repetition is also a very common place for ICURE to break down because in large groups not every individual is going to follow the same script perfectly. Group members can also undermine ICURE by lashing out, physically or verbally, driving their target away.

 Creating uncertainty doesn’t always work. Sometimes victims straight up do not believe what they’re told. Some attempts to create uncertainty around core beliefs lead to a knee-jerk rejection of what’s being said. Sometimes targets know more about a given subject then the person trying to create uncertainty and as a result the attempt is absurdly obvious.

 Emotive responses are similarly… charged. Attempting to instil a sense of disgust or rejection of something an individual supports won’t always work. Over a long period of time it can. But I can think of a lot of cases where it has instead taught individuals to lie to the group, hide their beliefs or activities and served to drive them away from the group.

 Isolation is either difficult or easy depending on the context of the story. A character who is in a literal prison can easily be isolated from anyone but vetted individuals. A character who has been targetted by a cult, but is still going about normal day to day business, is a lot harder to isolate completely.

 Cults and extremist groups tend to rely on uncertainty, repetition and emotive responses because they know that if they can shift a target’s beliefs the target will isolate themselves.

 Let me give you an example to illustrate this. Imagine a country where there’s a big, culturally important celebration that involves eating candied orange peel and wearing red. Now imagine a cult within the country that rejects candy as sinful and wearing red as a sign of bad character.

 A character targetted by this cult might feel increasingly uncomfortable with this festival. May be at first they go with their friends and family, wear red but don’t eat the candied orange peel. May be the year after they decide not to go, missing a chance to spend time with their friends and family. May be a few years later their rejection of the festival is so deep they try to persuade their friends and family not to go.

 This leads to a big argument. They and their friends/family say things in the heat of the moment. Now all sides are upset and communication becomes harder.

 These kinds of patterns of behaviour lead to the target isolating themselves from friends and family, as their views become more extreme and drive away people who aren’t members of the cult.

 But crucially they can still choose to socialise with people outside of the cult. This will probably be met with social censure from the cult, making it difficult and painful. It is still possible. And outside friendships or activities can help a person to break free or resist ICURE techniques.

 All of this basically means you have a lot of options for your story because there are plenty of things you can weave in that would undermine ICURE.

 Your character is in prison, so breaking isolation is more difficult. But if the prison is overcrowded or there’s a sudden influx of people being transferred between facilities the character might end up with a… poor choice of cell mate from the guard’s perspective. Some one with beliefs radically opposed to the guards or someone who could support and shore up the character’s old beliefs.

 There may also be opportunities for covert communication and bonding within the prison. Perhaps prisoners can gather during breaks and have worked out a cant or code to talk about beliefs the guards are trying to stamp out.

 Control of information can break down because isolation has broken down, with prisoners trading information. It can also happen through the prisoner trading for a phone or a similar item allowing them to access forbidden information. Or it can happen through things like guards inadvertently giving out information.

 Uncertainty is difficult to create around core beliefs. The impression I get from anecdotal accounts is that pushing too hard at core beliefs too early often causes targets to withdraw from the people attempting ICURE. It can also lead to targets doubling down on their beliefs.

 People attempting ICURE can also mess up on creating uncertainty, as described above.

 Repetition can break down because guards don’t all do or say the same things consistently. They could contradict each other. Or they might just not repeat the same thing very often.

 Emotive responses can break down in much the same way creating uncertainty does. Not everyone responds emotionally to the same things or in the same way. Once again different guards can undermine the desired response. The character might dig in to their original position, they might withdraw from the people attempting ICURE. They might just learn to lie to them.

 I think as a writer the best approach to this is to use a mix of internal and external factors effecting multiple parts of ICURE. Just because I think that would create a better story.

 The readers can see the internal struggle and resistance in the character. They can also see the guards messing up and how that impacts the character. May be the importance of support from other people, fellow prisoners or cleaning staff or doctors or anyone else that fits with the setting.

 Basically including multiple elements will give you a more fleshed out story with more emotional depth and impact. That’s a good narrative reason to include it.

 I hope that helps. :)

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#writing advice #tw cults #tw torture #tw coercion #ICURE #ICURE techniques #ICURE failing #prisons #cults #leaving cults #manipulation #coercion