#( her superiors would be pleased w that answer which is why she gives it tbh )

[joannalannister]

I recently saw an answer to an ask where you said the Lannister are small people, probably ever since The Hedge Knight. Do you think Joanna was small as well?

First, I really like this question, it’s a good one! Thank you for asking it!

Second, I assume you are referring to this post? (My friends, it really helps me if you supply the post number please!) 

“you said the Lannister[s] are small people” Let’s elaborate on that before we proceed. 

While the Lannisters are, on average, physically tall, I was using “small” metaphorically to indicate small moral stature and refer to character flaws, to indicate a person who is, on average, mean, or petty, or malicious, or lacking integrity, or contemptible, or bigoted, or pathetic, etc. 

(Note that I am saying “on average” to indicate a general tendency which allows for exceptions.) 

Tywin is a prime example of a man who is of small moral stature. See also. Basically the polar opposite of Brienne, who is a person of great moral stature. 

Also, I think something is lost in the paraphrasing, because I think this tendency toward “smallness” predates THK. I said previously, “Even in the days of Duncan the Tall […], House Lannister would not stand for a cause that was right and just, and they have only grown smaller since.) It’s THK which gives us a very concrete historical example that we actually “see” happening in real (story) time, with the Lannisters refusing Dunk’s call, but if the histories can be believed, examples abound. 

Now, do I think Joanna exhibited this tendency toward “smallness”? Sure, at least initially. 

That’s just how I personally imagine her, given that GRRM isn’t particularly interested in exploring pre-series female characters, especially ones who are not Targaryens. 

We don’t know a lot about Joanna, but we know something about the people around her, like Tywin and Genna and Kevan, and these people are … not … shining beacons of light in the series. 

Personally, I think Tywin’s love is conditional, and if you oppose him or if you disappoint him or if you’re not largely on board with his program of dehumanization and Lannister Superiority, he finds that very, very frustrating. If Tywin is frustrated, he tells you to fuck off, to get away from him, he disowns you, he won’t speak to you (ask Jaime (who frustrated Tywin’s ambitions), ask Tyrion (there is not enough parenthetical space here to tell you all the ways Tyrion is at odds with Tywin), ask Genna (who, in her own words, disappointed Tywin)). 

If you’re not on board, you’re not compatible with Tywin, in Tywin’s mind. That is who Tywin is in the books. 

“Ser Kevan was his brother’s vanguard in council, Tyrion knew from long experience; he never had a thought that Lord Tywin had not had first. It has all been settled beforehand, he concluded, and this discussion’s no more than show.”

(From my understanding, the people in the vanguard are the people at the front of your army, leading the way. In more modern terms, Kevan is like Tywin’s tank, advancing Tywin’s ideas in the political arena and drawing enemy fire without taking significant damage, which allows Tywin to follow up with a kill shot from relative cover. In short, this is a concerted effort.)

Like … Tywin isn’t just a person, he’s also an ideology. And Kevan is on fucking board, ride or die, a true believer, loyal to the end, and this is what makes Tywin trust him and rely on him.

(This is why I’m not a fan of those “oh, poor Kevan” interpretations… but that’s just me.) 

Genna was on fucking board too, she still resents Ellyn Tarbeck “that scheming bitch”

One of the few things we know about Joanna is that Tywin allowed himself to be vulnerable around her. The walls came down for her, the drawbridge lowered. For her, and only her. “Only Lady Joanna truly knows the man beneath the armor.” It’s only for Joanna that Tywin allowed his soft underbelly to be exposed. That implies a level of trust that we never see again in Tywin. 

Also consider marriage vows in Westeros: “One flesh, one heart, one soul.” 

I live in a largely secular place, so it’s easy to brush something like this off, yeah yeah yeah w/e. But to a Westerosi, these mean something - you’re combining two people into one. (These wedding vows are taken directly from Milton’s Paradise Lost, about Adam and Eve.) 

So when Tywin, a literalist, marries Joanna, he is allowing her to become a part of himself. 

That’s why I have a really, really, really hard time believing that Tywin fell in love with someone who was not “on board”. At least, initially. 

I think that – initially – Joanna was a very bigoted person - someone who was classist, racist, misogynistic, etc. 

But the reason that Joanna – or at least the Joanna that I imagine, cuz idk wtf george thinks, if anything – the reason that Joanna captivates me in a way that Tywin never can is because I’m interested in exploring the question, can Joanna change? 

Can Joanna grow? 

In the series, GRRM is interested in exploring how Jaime and Tyrion change throughout the books, and he has these men court Heroism and Villainy both, and they straddle the line between them. 

But GRRM really isn’t that interested in exploring that kind of thing with Cersei in the text, imo, and that always seems kind of sad to me. 

So I suppose, in my own writing, I make up for that with Joanna. 

Like, in my fanfiction, the first scene where Tywin and Joanna interact is basically Tywin scandalized that Joanna is seemingly not dehumanizing this person, and Joanna reassuring him that it’s not what it looks like and basically “don’t be an idiot, Tywin, of course i’m not treating This Person like a human being, this is just the most convenient thing for me” 

And I want to know how she grows from that - how does she eventually come to see This Person as a friend? 

And we know that Joanna and the Princess of Dorne became friends, but how did they start? 

Aerys was obviously racist, and I think Tywin was racist, but eventually we get to a point where, imo, Joanna wanted to marry her son to the Princess’s daughter, Elia, so how do we get there? 

And what about Tytos’s mistress, what about Lynora Hill, what about Ellyn Tarbeck? What do these people mean to Joanna, how does she see them, what does she do? 

What of Toad? 

GRRM has seeded this era with so many interesting people, so many people for Joanna to run up against and push back against.

So I suppose, IN MY OWN WRITING, I imagine Joanna as small, and I find that the interesting thing is to watch her grow, and also to explore the limits of her growth. 

Because her relationship with Tywin is a big factor in her life. If Joanna can see the Princess of Dorne as a human being, and Tywin can’t …. 

And how does that make Joanna see herself, how does that change her…

…Joanna’s growth, Joanna’s disillusionment, her own realizations …

…I’m trying to find the right words, because I haven’t written this part yet…

Tywin ruled, and Joanna willingly assisted him in bricking up her own cage. Because Tywin is the living embodiment of Westerosi patriarchy, and Joanna helped him. She was complicit. And even a love as “deep and long-abiding” as Tywin’s can’t save her. 

I suppose that’s why I find Tywin/Joanna so sad. 

Sadder than GRRM imagined.  I don’t think this is a story GRRM could write, tbh. 

So yes. Small. But growth is possible. 

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