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makethosenarratorsfight · 9 months

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UNRELIABLE NARRATORS; SEMI FINALS

*NOTE; propaganda is out of order due to the post length!

Eugenides Propaganda:

the entire plot hinges on a detail he lets the reader (and every other character) assume is true. I don't want to spoil it because it's a really fun reveal but he is lying from the first second he appears on the page and you can't trust him to tell the full truth about ANYTHING related to himself and his goals. he mostly does it to keep his advantage and not have other characters be suspicious of him but it's just so fun when you realise he's been lying the whole time

Kim Dokja Propaganda:

I haven't read orv but he's fucking gotta be from what I've osmosised

He tries to remove his emotions out of the narrative soooo much, literally the most repressed guy ever. Okay so for context orv is about how this guy, Kim Dokja, has been the only reader of an obscure post-apocalyptic webnovel for years and the novel suddenly becomes reality. And at first you'll probably get the weird impression that his behavior is pretty strange for, you know, a literal apocalypse happening in his world - like yes, he is concerned with survival but he doesn't seem all that scared and he kinda treats it like a video game where he has to grind to make himself stronger and he also treats his companions like a party in an rpg. Then there's also the way he approaches the protagonist of the webnovel, from the start he just kind of describes him as a ruthless psychopath and jerk that is unfortunately a pretty useful ally. And also there's the fact that he carefully omits any mention of his past and when somebody asks if he's worried about his family when the apocalypse starts he just kinda... brushes it off? Anyway so yeah, this bastard is definitely traumatized, although I don't know how much of spoiler territory that would be, considering the fact that literally when he first reveals his trauma he's also unreliable about it. And turns out he does indeed, care A LOT about this world and the people around him. Because well, he kinda didn't care to mention that this webnovel that has become reality was like... literally his whole world before it literally became his whole world. Like, it was the only thing keeping him going for 10+ years and the protagonist that he likes to call a stupid jerk was his comfort character who he pretended to be when he felt like he couldn't handle something in his life by being himself. The protagonist is also canonically the person he loves the most according to a prophecy and he literally can't fathom the thought of him dying, even the timeline versions of him that directly oppose him. And I haven't even mentioned the Fourth Wall yet but I feel like this propaganda is a little long already

misreading the intentions of his companion (yoo joonghyuk) so many time.

YOU DON'T UNDERSTANDDD DOKJA IS SUCH A UNRELIABLE NARRATORRRRRR GOD I COULD WRITE AN ESSAY BUT I KNOW YOU LOVE DOKJA TOO BUT OMG HE'S JUST SO AAAAAAAAAAAH

Rest of Propaganda under cut!

he is the worst like actually. he starts the story talking about how normal and average he is. he is not. he is constantly mischaracterizing his friends and he's so good at lying to the readers that you don't even realize it at first. almost every single time he cries we have to be told by other characters because he never says it himself. there is literally a scene where his narration says "i wasn't crying" and then the in-universe entity that narrates the actions of people (orv is really weird and meta) says that he was, in fact, crying. honestly genuinely anything he says about himself (or doesn't say) cannot be trusted. he is just so frustrating. he drives me mad. i love him dearly. but he drives me so mad.

Dictionary definition of unreliable narrator. Does not tell the reader anything and then things happen and he's like oh yeah btw there was also this and this earlier but i just didn't feel like mentioning it. There's even a thing called the "Fourth Wall" that is able to see through kdj's bs so occasionally you get gems like,

Kim Dokja: I didn't cry

The Fourth Wall: [Kim Dokja was crying]

Imagine being so unreliable as a narrator you need a more powerful narrator to call out the actual narrator.

^ same submission, just spacing it out

This goes into spoiler territory, but; Kim Dokja is in possession of a skill called the Fourth Wall, which on the surface seems like it appears because he read the book that reverse-isekai’d into his own. However, as the story goes on it becomes clear that it’s pretty much a souped up version of his pre-existing dissociation. You cannot trust him to be honest about his feelings, his past traumas or his feelings about his past traumas, not to mention his tendency to just outright omit information that only gets revealed later on either when it becomes relevant or when an outsider POV reveals what’s actually happening.

Exhibit A: he says (in 1st person POV) that he’s not crying. The Fourth Wall immediately contradicts this (as it is literally words of the novel) by saying (in 3rd person POV) ‘Kim Dokja was crying’.

Exhibit B: Fails to mention entire actions when it shows him emotionally honest even in the slightest; we had to read from another character entirely when Kim Dokja was being physically affectionate with his companion. It’s so bad that there’s this entire paragraph about Kim Dokja describing himself hiding his eyes in his hands in jerky, weirdly specific detail and just AVOIDING EVERY WORD THAT MIGHT SHOW HE’S CRYING. The brilliance of ORV is that when you re-read the entire thing you get hints that ‘yes, this WAS hinted at the entire time’ but you have to dig it out of Kim Dokja’s repressed, depressed self-hating internal dialogue with your own two hands.

^ same submission, spacing it out (i really should've done this earlier.)

i am a simple man (not a man). i see a tumblr text post with the words “unreliable narrator in it”. i read nothing else. i reblog & tag #kim dokja okay but in all seriousness i’m just going with the musty basic example: so there’s this moment where he sacrifices himself to save this guy. as he lays on the ground bleeding out, he says “hey, you don’t like me, right? you should kill me to get some money” the guy says “no kim dokja i cant do that (going through the five stages of grief except there’s only one and it’s anger)” the constellations (twitch viewers irl) are like omg he (the guy) doesn’t want to kill his companion (kim dokja) and shower him (the guy) with money kim dokja: oh, he’s not killing me for the money. smart!

as i quote a brilliant youtube video (all of omniscient reader’s viewpoint in 6 minutes) “yoo joonghyuk sees kim dokja as a c_____”

yoo joonghyuk: companion

kim dokja: cunt

^ same submission, once again. spacing it out.

Hides his true feelings, tells the readers what he thinks is convenient for the plot and that his own personal feelings don’t matter or are not so significant. Has unreliable thoughts abt his companion and is a liar. And is also an omniscient reader.

Kim Dokja always perceived his companions in this like nonchalant way like “oh yeah we get along but really we’re just fighting to survive (apocalypse setting) it doesn’t run that deep” when they all do genuinely care for him and he does in turn. He just, doesn’t think of it as an equal relationship? Dokja’ll sacrifice a lot for them but will get seriously flabbergasted if they do the same thing, so fricking problematic. Not to mention Yoo Joonghyuk, his “Life and Death Companion” (read: husband). Kim Dokja always seems to think that Joonghyuk has it out for him, which is kinda true, but he is literally blind to the fact that he’s attached to him. Like, it’s so obvious??? Also they have hella sexual tension but that’s another thing entirely

se get some many pov changes where kdj in his pov just assumed things based on what he knew the characters would do. however because of his interference the characters have changed and he wouldn’t know that if it hit him in the face

He's an unreliable narrator because he lies to himself and thus the audience. He literally rewrote his own childhood core memory. If someone says, "this guy is my friend!" He will go through so many hoola hoops in his mind just to rationalize it. Because he fundamentally believe that no one could love him and even if they did they couldn't know him and he's just gonna hurt them. He cries sometimes in canon but a lot of those times it's not even mentioned as crying he's that unreliable of a narrator. No joke, one time this guys he has a gay thing with called him his "companion" to someone who had just killed him (long story) and this bitch thought "oh wow he's doing it for the coins (another long story) he's so smart i wish I'd thought to that. He's terrible. He literally has an exchange with something called the Fourth Wall (an even longer story) where it said "you're crying" and he said "no I'm not" but he was crying. He makes me insane because the reader is supposed to project onto him. He made me see how much of an unreliable narrator I WAS. ORV is just like that tho.

#kim dokja #kdj #orv #omniscient readers viewpoint #once again #if kdj gets this poll blacklisted again im blowing him up #eugenides #the queens thief #queens thief #unreliable narrators battle #unreliable narrators #polls #semi finals

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kimdokjas · 9 months

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hey! so i want to read orv after seeing you post about it for a bit but im not sure where i should start- i was hoping you could tell me how you got into it ??? anyway hope you're having a good day:)

hi omg yes of course!! legit SO excited to help spread the orv agenda, prepare to have your brain chemistry permanently altered by it fr (not clickbait)

orv stands for omniscient reader's viewpoint and it's first and foremost a webnovel, but there's also a currently ongoing manhwa adaptation (also there's a live-action movie in pre-production so you're joining the orv train at the perfect time actually)

not to oversell it but the novel is, no joke, the best piece of fiction i've read in my entire life. because of its heavy metanarrative elements, orv really is meant to be read as a novel—it's literally a love letter to its readers.

HOWEVER, i actually highly recommend starting out with the manhwa first, which is how i got into it! i feel like the manhwa is more engaging at the beginning and helps you visualize the characters and setting better. once you get a good grasp on the cast and the overall gist of the plot, you can always switch to the novel!

i personally made the switch after ep 98 of the manhwa and i'd suggest doing the same bc it just hits a lot harder in the novel at that point (plus the manhwa takes away some of the internal narration that literally recontextualizes that whole arc but i digress)

as for where you can read it:

you can find the manhwa on webtoon here (there's also an app if you prefer reading on mobile)

and you can find the novel here

(btw i fully rec starting the novel from the beginning once you make the switch! it might seem a bit repetitive at first, but you actually pick up on a lot of foreshadowing during the second read + you get to see some scenes that were changed / removed in the manhwa!)

beyond that i'll just say that the story only keeps getting better, trust me. it's probably the only one i've read where it just builds and builds and never stops and the payoff during the epilogue is 10000% worth the ride <3

hope you're having a lovely day as well!! and i really hope you enjoy the absolute insanity that is orv hehe

#also!!! pls blacklist the 'orv spoilers' tag #i'd hate to accidentally spoil it for you!!#even if you're like 'i don't mind spoilers!' no pls i'm grabbing u by the shoulders pls blacklist it #also do NOT look up anything about it bc everywhere u look is just a landmine of spoilers #(it's 100% enjoyable even w spoilers ofc!! orv is a celebration of the narrative and doesn't just rely on shock value. but imo it's—#a lot more fun when u have no idea what's going on lmao and the foreshadowing just keeps u guessing)#also not to get into it here but. novel ch 108 is literally so special to me personally. i feel like we don't talk about it enough #i'm so glad i got to read it in the novel first and not the manhwa #not me full on rambling in the tags 💀 anyways #ask #anonymous #orv

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rosencrantzsguildenstern · 1 year

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Hi dost!!!!!!!!

First, LOVE the pink it brings me joy.

Second, I would like to ask you about your favorite metanarratives!!!

hiiiiiiii omg!!!!

my tumblr experience just looks like this <3 i really like pink and i love searing my eyes

did u know you are the first person who's ever taken me up on the 'ask me about my favorite metanarratives' header? :0 thank u for that!

my favorite metanarratives that i'm talking about there are the play rosencrantz and guildenstern are dead and the webnovels omniscient reader's viewpoint and the scum villain's self saving system! basically, ragad is about two self-aware hamlet side characters, svsss is about a guy who enters the world of a story, and orv is about a story that enters the world of a guy! but the reason my header is that is that i just generally like 1) stories that are straight up just about someone ending up in the world of a story/a story world being real for whatever reason 2) stories that look at themselves and their genre and analyze it in depth, and 3) stories that use #1 to do #2, as well as analyzing something deeper about the human condition!

for example, rosencrantz and guildenstern is about fate and mortality; my transmigration (person ending up in the story world stories) favorites are often about how one person's actions can make an impact, as well as taking apart all the vices of the genre they're in!

orv is BRILLIANT at sending a message via its meta format btw, because the protagonist has this tool called the fourth wall which basically stops his emotions from being affected as much by things- because he views what he's in as a story, is what the text tells you from his pov, but it's kind of just disassociation which was ALREADY a thing he did because he had mad trauma! and also, there are themes about understanding each other and how well you really know each other, and the protag kim dokja thinks he understands the protag of the NOVEL and he doesn't, and just like. it's good!!

but in terms of taking apart genre vices, scum villain's amazing at that, and balancing comedy and this inherent tragedy of the situation they're in; i have another thing i like, mistakenly saving the villain, which takes and saves a cannon-fodder type danmei (Chinese boy's love) character who would often have been ignored/genuinely looked down on by the story, and saying 'hey, screw this, nothing of what happened to him was his fault and also maybe he's right and bloody revenge IS okay' and exploring the ramifications of that while deconstructing these ideas of like. young virgin mcs and stockholm-syndromed mcs and censored stories!

and you can tell a light-hearted story while still going a bit meta! my favorite book series as a kid was story thieves, which did the AMAZING thing i'm still thinking about of having each book be a different genre with one of them being a choose-your-own-adventure novel with a self aware protagonist. that stuff awakened something in me for real! and stories that don't have that literal story-within-a-story aspect can still do all this stuff, like gekkan shoujo nozaki kun is a manga about shoujo manga that gets a bit meta occasionally with characters in the story having more stereotypical equivalents in the main character's manga, and mostly uses that to uhh (checks notes) be incredibly gender! it's good!

tbh i think these are just the people i follow/am mutuals with but i see a lot of posts about things being metanarratives or characters being 'doomed by the narrative' or whatever by people who aren't talking about this stuff that is GENUINELY so meta and that bothers me, like those elements are there but come on!! u would like all of this stuff i'm talking about if only you knew about it . ... (let me introduce u to character doomed by the narrative: yue wuhuan who quite literally keeps getting LIGHTNING thrown at him from the sky because plot reasons GOD HATES HIM AND HE SHOULD BE DEAD) (also, we're all usually actually talking about metafiction but shh. ignore that there could be a more precise term.)

sooo uh yeah!!! thanks for asking haha i hope this ramble is the start of a beautiful friendship

#chitra.txt #asks

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