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himehikoshrine · 7 months

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Himehiko Timeline

This is my best attempt to gather the information we get about the Tamasaka Himehiko line and thus the game universe timeline. It is based on what I've found in the game and bonus material, but it may yet be incomplete. If you have any information I'm missing, please let me know. It's also always possible we get more lore drops in extra material.

It'll be behind a cut, so I will edit any additional information into the post. If I add things, I'll try to keep track here of when the last edit was. This will obviously contain spoilers for the full game (especially Kisa's route - major spoilers for Kisa's route) as well as bits of side material. Specifically the First Anniversary Short Story and the Summer Light Novel, though also the pre-release short stories on the website and others.

Shout out to the other people who seem to have independently attempted the same project, including Anemone (@ snowblossom_jj on twitter) for something to double check myself against. Before I go right into the Himehiko Timeline, I'm going to put in some Japanese Theater History for context, though it's worth noting none of this is referenced specifically in the game and may differ within the Jack Jeanne universe.

As always, happy to answer questions via asks or elsewhere if you have them.

Japanese Theater History potentially of note.

1374 - Kan'ami (観阿弥) and 12 year old son Zeami (世阿弥) perform what would become known as Noh for the teenage shogun Ashikaga Yoshimitsu (足利義満) who is so impressed by Zeami he gives him patronage. Zeami is educated in court and eventually becomes the Shogun’s lover. At 22, after his father’s death, he takes over the family troupe and begins to integrate his classical education and Buddhist instruction into the art. He goes on to formalize Noh, write plays for it, and treatises on acting and the Philosophy of Drama that continue to be informative to this day.

Of note, the idea of “hana” 『花』 is one of his core tenants, and his formulation of “the flower of youth” vs “the flower of experience” is referenced in game, though not credited.

1603 - Izumo no Okuni (出雲阿国) creates Kabuki. It is originally performed by a troupe of all women.

1629 - Women are banned from Kabuki for “morality” leading to the form being taken over by “young men” who are later also banned for being too sexy, in moves through the next several decades.

Probably by the timeline we are given for Tamasaka, in our world, Kabuki would have been established as an all male form of theater, with men playing women’s roles referred to as “onnagata” as they are to this day. It is unclear if this history happens the same within the Jack Jeanne universe, as no mention of Kabuki itself happens in game, and Tamasakaza isn’t placed within it as a larger tradition, despite being described in much the way Kabuki is, suggesting perhaps in the Jack Jeanne universe, history diverges at some point.

1680s - Bunraku, (then known as Jourui) a form of Puppet Theater takes on something close to its modern form and starts becoming increasingly popular. Many famous Kabuki plays were originally written “for the puppets” and the literary tradition is considered overlapping.

1683 - Chikamatsu Monzaemon (近松門左衛門, 1653 – 1725) has his first verified play produced. He is sometimes called the “Shakespeare of Japan”. He would continue writing plays for both puppet theater and kabuki, until around 1715. He was a writer, but did not act. He is most famous for his lovers’ suicides.

HIMEHIKO TIMELINE

1st Himehiko - His name was Chuza Tsukihiko (中座月彦), and he lived sometime in the “mid-Edo period’ about 300 years before the present. Specific dates are hard to pin down, but we’re looking at around (or maybe a little before or after) 1700. It is likely not exactly 300 years ago, give or take a few years, as no one in the game mentions any kind of anniversary, and you’d assume the 300th (or 200th of the established settled troupe) would be marked and mentioned.

He’s canonically called a "bishonen" and was known to be able to play both male and female roles. At this time, in our universe, no women would have been allowed on stage. We know his troupe was all male.

He receives the patronage of a local lord (much like Zeami) - the lord of the castle in Hiraki - Hiraki Matsubara (開松原). Matsubara was considered very talented and is credited with the town flourishing under his rule as well as the creation of Tamasaka and Tamasakaza.

He is given the name Tamasaka Himehiko 玉阪比女彦 which he takes on, and which becomes the title passed down. (The name "Tamasaka" is mentioned to maybe be a play on the word 『偶さか』 implying a "rare, unusual kind of talent")

Though the troupe itself will be considered a traveling troupe for the next 100 years, it seems to have a sort of home base on that lord’s land. They are given land for a stage there, the forebearer of the Tamasaka theater that exists to day.

We know little about him, but one thing we know is that he was quite fond of the story of the catfish god in Ayahama (which is historically near where Hiraki Castle is), and used to dance in tribute there. The relationship between Tamasaka and the hot springs goes back all the way to him.

There is one Wisteria tree on Mt. Oodate, and he is said to have been fond of it. (Fuji Musume - 藤娘- is one of the most famous Kabuki dance/plays, though technically it would have, in our universe, postdated the first generation Himehiko, it is likely a reference).

He dies of “severe, violent emotional suffering”.

He is enshrined in Himehiko shrine, and may actually be buried there. He is worshipped there as a god of theatre, and a bringer of fortune in other endeavors as well. This would imply the shrine is established well before the troupe settles.

2nd - The next Himehiko is the elder brother of the first. We don’t know if the rule that was later in place that the title be passed to someone under the age of 30 was in place yet. It may imply that the troupe, like Zeami’s was a family affair at least in part, from the beginning, if his brother was considered the natural next head.

3rd - The eldest son of the 2nd.

History that happens at an unclear point in the timeline after this --

At some point after this, though it does not seem to be specifically after the 3rd, in the way it’s told, one generation of Himehiko will choose to pass the title onto an adopted son. Rather than the adopted son taking the Chuza name as well, this son becomes the start of a new branch family, known as the Tamasaka branch. From this point on, the title will occasionally pass between the Tamasaka and Chuza branches, eventually developing into quite the rivalry. The Tamasaka branch became known as “true flowers” or the more talented of the two branches. The exact timeline of all of this unclear.

At some point, after several early, tragic deaths of people carrying the Himehiko name, both branches of the family begin to speak of a “Himehiko Curse” - which causes those who take the title to die young. They believe in this so strongly that people from both branches will sometimes pass up the title, or defer it, to try to avert the fate. However, it doesn’t seem to be something that affects every Himehiko. Just enough of them for it to be considered a threat in the family.

How it operates and if it is one of the genuine supernatural forces in the Jack Jeanne universe is unclear. The first Himehiko dies of severe mental suffering. The cause of death for others is not established.

It is possible that, either supernaturally or non-supernaturally, it is the distillation of the stress, politics, rivalries, burdens, and expectations of the theatre.

All of this happens and is well established between the 3rd Himehiko and the 10th Himehiko, but specifics are vague.

At some point, a rule is added that the title is past to a young man under the age of 30.

It seems some people may pass the title down before they die, rather than it only transferring via death. It is unclear the effect this has on the curse within the narrative of it. At another point, rather than taking the full stage name of Himehiko, each generation takes only half as their stage name - either Hime or Hiko, plus an additional character. This was done to try to avoid the “curse”. It does not work.

4th - A tree in the courtyard of Himehiko Shrine, which contains many trees, including many fruit trees, is said to have been planted by him. All we get is that the tree is “planted in the lucky direction.”

It is possible this is an Ume tree, which apparently can be considered a protective charm against evil and is traditionally planted in the northeast corner of a garden. Other than this, I can’t find much — the other mentions of lucky directions change by year, and don't seem to be what’s being referred to.

5th - nothing is known

6th - nothing is known

7th - Established Tamasaka Drama School as per random Neji encounter. Neji says he ‘fell in love with…’ and is then cut off. We get no other info from that encounter, or elsewhere.

It’s possible that the establishing of the Drama School coincided with the settling of the Troupe from a traveling one to a stationary one, but that’s not mentioned directly. If so, that would put 7th at about 100 years after the 1st, and about 200 years before the present.

It is unclear if from this point on all Himehiko’s also serve as Principal of the School or not.

At some point “several generations back (from present)” the principal of the school plants Night Jasmine on Mt. Oodate.

(About 200 years ago, the Takashina Style of dance is founded as a family dance tradition. It has no association with Tamasakaza, but given it’s part of the timeline we get, plus the Kabuki/Nihon Buyo overlap in our universe, I’m putting it on here.)

8th - The tree he planted at the shrine is the most prominent one. No other info is known.

9th - nothing is known.

10th - From the Tamasaka Line. Very likely the older brother of the 11th - According to the Anniversary Short Story, he dies a shocking and tragic death (that would fit within the narrative of the Himehiko Curse). The title would then be passed to his younger brother.

11th - Real name Tamasaka Shikitoshi 玉阪志木年 - stage name unknown. He is the current head of the troupe during the Meiji era merger of Hikari and Tamasaka, as depicted in the Anniversary Short Story. That takes place in 22nd year of the Meiji Era - 1889, giving us our first firm date.

According to Tancho, the lead Hiko actor at the time was rather critical and nagging of him, but in the events depicted in Neji’s play, ultimately is willing to almost give his life to protect 11th.

In Neji’s telling of the events he is described as innovative, as well as a very shrewd politician. And rather indifferent or reckless about threats against his own life.

He has two daughters and no sons. Presumably no one else in the Tamasaka branch has any sons of eligible age either. To prevent the name from passing back to the Chuza branch, and perhaps as a test on the limits of the Himehiko Curse, to see if it would spare women, Shikitoshi passes the title to his second daughter.

We have no information on why not the first daughter - whether she was over 30, or less skilled, or didn’t want it - all we know is that he passed it to his second daughter.

12th - The second daughter of the 11th. Member of the Tamasaka Family. First and only female Himehiko. The tree she donated to the shrine is marked with an actor’s crest of clappers — something recognizable as specifically belonging to her.

Despite being a woman, she was not just a figurehead, and actively acted in Tamasaka Plays. There is at least one that she was quite fond of, that involved a Kimono salesperson and a woman walking around on “Izayoi” - a play that the troupe stopped performing after her early and tragic death.

Tagane was involved in a revival of this play at some point, likely a pretty clear sign of his loyalty to the Tamasaka Branch faction.

At some point, it is likely that she placed a platinum Kanzashi bearing her crest in a wooden box in a tree hollow near Himehiko Shrine, following the superstition and custom born out of the Tamasaka play “Tearful Kanzashi." “Tearful Kanzashi" depicts a young woman (the fourth daughter of a man with no sons, who is abused and locked away by her father in anger after her birth also kills her mother) putting the Kanzashi her lover gives her into a tree by a shrine she stops at to pray to be reunited with him in the next life, before throwing herself off a cliff. (For more, see the Summer Light Novel chapter).

This also takes place on the 16th night of the lunar cycle. It is unclear if the play is the same one — but since the summary is given to Suzu and Kisa by a Kimono salesman, it seems unlikely that it wouldn’t include that detail if it were the same — rather it seems likely Tearful Kanzashi predates the 12th, and Tamasaka just has a lot of plays that use "Izayoi" in them.

This may indicate that the 12th takes her own life like the woman in the play, but it’s all speculation beyond that her death fits within the narrative of the Himehiko Curse.

After her early, tragic death, the title passes back to the Chuza Branch, and the whole incident/experiment is considered a disaster.

12th's older sister, and thus the surviving Tamasaka Branch go into hiding of some kind. She has children, thus continuing the line, under an assumed name. The Tamasaka branch retains supporters both in the troupe and the town, who believe that the Tamasaka branch have true talent that the Chuza branch lacks.

13th - Chuzu Dairi (中座内吏), stage name Uchihime (内比女).

After the death of the 12th, the title passes back to the Chuza line for the first time in 80 years. He quickly makes a new rule, reserving the Himehiko title for the Chuza branch, further pushing the Tamasaka branch into hiding and out of power.

We know he was born in the Meiji era (ended 1912) and lived until Showa (started 1926).

He had a strong interest in western style plays and musicals, and is the one who renamed the Tamasaka Drama School to Univeil Drama School, as well as changing the roles from Hiko and Hime to Jack and Jeanne within the school.

(For what it’s worth, Takarazuka is started in 1913. It was based heavily on western, particularly French musical Revue in direct contrast to Kabuki. It was started by a businessman in the city of Takarazuka as an all women’s theater company. Much of Jack Jeanne is based on a gender swap of Takarazuka as inspiration, but its timeline and the actual style of Tamasaka do not match Takarazuka. But this is a Himehiko Timeline so no more on Takarazuka for now.)

He apparently made a good deal of innovations to the troupe as well, and seems to have been quite active and hands on in both.

It’s hard to pin down how long and exactly when he lived and was in charge.

Kisa’s class being the 78th class would put the first numbered class in 1942, which is a particularly strange year for a traditional theater school in Japan for young, fit boys to be rebranding to a western aesthetic. It would literally be months after the attack on Pearl Harbor and several years into a war that greatly disrupted all forms of theater, calling most able bodied men to arms, rather than dance - so that’s something to consider when trying to fit the timeline. Perhaps there are years missing - a reversion to the old name, a pause in the numbering, but for some reason they pick up from where they left off, rather than restart? There is no indication in any material of any of this, either way.

14th - Takahiko (鷹彦) - the grandfather of Chuza Shuri, the current/18th Himehiko. Written with the character for “Hawk” and is noted as having very sharp eyes, but otherwise looking very much like Shuri. The game’s timeframe puts him taking up the title some time when black and white portraits were still most common, but recent enough that an old lady alive and walking around Tamasaka remembers him as a young man.

Apparently, he married a wealthy local family’s daughter after taking the position of Himehiko - and this old woman remembers having a crush on him at the time, and being disappointed - so one could guess that she was at least in her teens then.

The game’s menu actually says he’s the one who designed the school, rather than 13th - so perhaps Takahiko is the one who designed it architecturally - even if the rebrand happened before hand.

15th - nothing specifically is known

16th - nothing specifically is known

17th - nothing specifically is known

We know nothing about these or the order they were in, but one was almost certainly Shuri's father. In the anniversary short story, Tancho mentions Shuri's father by name. His name seems to have been Chuza Osamu (中座倫). From what Tancho says, the implication is that Shuri's father maybe have been principal before him, whether right before or not is not clear, or if he served this role concurrent with the title of Himehiko or not is also unclear. As previously stated, it's unclear if Principal of the School and Head of the Troupe are jobs all Himehiko's serve as part of the title, or if only some do. So it's possible that he held one and not the other or one for longer than the other - i.e. continued running the school after passing the name down or something.

All we get is the name, and that Tancho both knew/knows him and what his preference for incense was/is (and that its different than Shuri's).

It is possible an uncle and/or brother of his also held the position, as there is a nephew of his in Tamasakaza right now, which means Shuri has at least one (almost certainly) older sibling.

18th - Chuza Shuri (中座秋吏), stage name Akihime (秋比女) (Written with the character for Autumn, a kanji from his given name).

Currently the principal who is not well liked by Tamasaka Elders. Still seems to technically be the head of the troupe, but displays no desire to actually do anything onstage and finds his obligations to the Troupe to be a chore. Considers himself decent enough at both dance and singing (apparently singing is something Chuza branch is usually considered weaker in, or so he says).

He is in tension with the board over many things - Chui says the situation around him is “worse than you know,” implying there may be far more going on than anyone tells Kisa, and thus the player.

The Tamasaka Elders seem, from what we’re told, to want to make Univeil into more of a training school for Tamasaka (again?) - and Chuza is resistant to the idea.

19th - In a weekend event, the old lady in Tamasaka who tells Kisa about the 14th seems to state Akihime is the previous rather than current Himehiko (at least in the English). But everyone else seems to refer to him as the current one. Maybe she’s misremembering, maybe she’s got Opinions on his lack of participation and how much the board hates him - which she also mentions. Who knows.

The two candidates for the position seem to be Chui - the Tamasaka branch heir, and already seen as kind of a god, and Shuri's nephew (mentioned in a VERY missable Sou event on 8/1 - who is currently a Hime actor in Tamasaka, who is “treated like a king” as part of the Chuza family there. He apparently doesn’t resemble Shuri much.)

One presumes the Tamasaka board has its factions on which one they support, and, regardless, are preparing them to hold the position more to the boards liking than Shuri.

#jack jeanne #jack jeanne lore #tamasaka himehiko #lore hunting #timeline #reference #the brainrot is bad #really bad

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judgecast · 9 months

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New Post has been published on JudgeCast

JudgeCast #300 - Down with OPC (Other People's Content)

https://judgecast.com/archives/1735

This is SPARTA! Wait, no. This is…our 300th Episode! While my favorite topic to talk about is myself, we put the breaks on that celebration to invite on a few other judges active providing content for the masses. We talk about what makes their projects special, what keeps them motivated, and how it helps others.

Charlotte Sable – Ask a Magic Judge (tumblr.com) – Tumblr

David Elden – Judging FtW – YouTube – YouTube

Rhianna Milton – Ask-the-Judge (Magic: the Gathering Rules & Policy Group) | Facebook – Facebook

Also a big shout out to all the hosts, past and present that have contributed to Judgecast in its mission to teach and possibly entertain. Sean Catanese Riki Hayashi Jose Boveda Jess Dunks Roy Shrader Bryan Prillaman Brogan King Jacob Milicic Samantha Harr Charles Featherer

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roguishlyhandsomesecretagent · 3 years

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sleepwalking // the birthday massacre

A night turns to a day

A street I've never walked on

I was never here

I'm just a faint reflection

The day turns to a month

A second of affection

I was never here

I'm just a faint reflection

#rex dasher #playmobil: the movie #music #lyrics #RP #the birthday massacre #sleepwalking #(this song and its lyrics give me rex vibes)#(always moving around and reasons of a lack of affection)#(this is definitely him)#(also shout out to my 300th post!!)

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i-luvsang · 3 years

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wayv reaction to bella biting their crush

request: anonnie requested “wayv reaction where they take you to the dorm for the first time (you like each other but don't date yet) and bella (their dog) doesn't like you and bites you hard genre: crack, fluff, maybe angst?? lol summary: y’all already know lmao warnings: mentions of blood, dogs biting people a/n: thank you for requesting! i hope i did okay, i don’t know all of the wayv members as well as dream. enjoy! also i believe that this is my 300th post! wow that’s a lot lol <3333

➳ kun

is absolutely mortified

he was a little anxious about bringing you to the dorms for the first time

like who wouldn’t when luhenyang are there (it’s a joke don’t hurt me XD)

but man that wasn’t what he expected

you try to pet bella because why would you not she’s so cute

and she’s kinda just like *chomp*

and kun is just 😳

scolds bella and gets really worried about you and doting on you

the mom in him comes out *no surprise there of course*

but yeah just takes very good care of you

doesn’t stop apologizing

tries to hide how embarrassed he is

➳ ten

is kinda just like shrfkjsdfkfksnskjdhshfsjd oOPS

again, was not expecting that

was quite surprised and can’t figure why bella doesn’t like you

cuz like you’re so lovable how could she not just adore you

feels so bad

was initially really excited to bring you to the dorm

but now he’s like

with all the chaos that ensues here and tHAT no thank you sir

he just wanted to have a nice time

but now he has a naughty dog and a bleeding crush on his hands

obviously is very sweet to you

also doesn’t stop apologizing

is very visibly flustered but he actually gets over it fairly quickly and is able to have a really great time with you

➳ winwin

OwO

is very sad that bella doesn’t like you

and is terrified that you now hate him because she bit you

very flustered

again, he just can’t stop apologizing

babe doesn’t really know what he’s supposed to do but tries hard to take care of you

gets you a band-aid and makes sure that bella is never in the same room as you two

really hopes that you still have a good time

swears to never bring you to the dorm again

but you keep coming back anyways because at least the cats like you

and you love the cats

feels so bad every time you try to make bella like you T^T

➳ lucas

was really hoping to have a fun time with you

his life flashes before his eyes when she bites you

O-O

stands in shock for a seconds, his eyes flicking between the growling bella and the bleeding you

jumps into action quickly tho, putting bella in another room and grabbing a band-aid for your hand

is very disappointed in bella as one of her dads

(not really disappointed just sad because he really loves bella and has told you so many times about how much you’d love bella too)

remembers all the times that he told you that bella would absolutely adore you

and now he’s contemplating all of this life choices that led up to this

➳ xiaojun

we all know that xiaojun is bella’s mom

and he loves you both so much and was so excited for the two of you to meet

was already nervous to bring you to the dorm

but was really looking forward to having a good time with you

and man this was not what he was expecting to go wrong

like bella is usually so sweet and kinda just sleeps and eats

she’s a very tolerant dog like she lives with those seven men

bUT FOR SOME REASON SHE DOESN’T LIKE YOU AND NOW XIAOJUN IS SAD

he keeps apologizing

keeps wondering where it all went wrong

tries very hard to make sure the rest of the day goes well though

➳ hendery

screams in normal hendery fashion

gets a band-aid for you first

but then he makes a huge show of scolding bella in front of everyone

screams about how xiaojun and lucas raised her wrong

like how could bella not adore you i mean you’re so incredible

doesn’t realize that he kinda just starts ranting about how much he likes you

like your face is so hot that you don’t even remember why hendery was yelling about this in the first place

suddenly he realizes that he was kinda just shouting about his crush on you without actually saying it

stops talking mid-sentence

0.0

at least he distracted you from your new bite wound :]

➳ yangyang

i see this going two ways

either he freaks out

like he has no idea what to do and he just gets so flustered

he’s just all over the place

like ‘nO BELLA DON’T DO THAT” *tries get bella out*

remembers that you’re still there and (gently) drops bella halfway there and is like “wAIT oMG ARE YOU OKAY IM SO SORRY”

he’s just the embodiment of smh

just

the disappointment on his face is almost (definitely) comical

is kinda like ‘wELp i expected the worst anyways, i guess i should deal with this” :|

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alkaysani-archived · 4 years

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a more in depth public declaration of love

i’ve been wanting to do this for a while this has been sitting in the drafts

anyway, this is appropriate for my 300th post. as you know i primarily write fan fiction, so all the gif edits you see here, bar the ones i’ve marked, are all from other talented artists from fandom. talented artists that i’ve been blessed enough to get to know and talk to, so i just want to take a moment to shout them out in my own way. and my own way is sappy go away don’t judge me

basically, these are some of my ‘geez’ tag folks. the * link to their work in their blog

@calebcovington - *

oh rai. not only are they amazingly gifted in their edits and gifs, they are also an amazing human. rai was the first person i ever had the guts to interact with in the TOG fandom, and actually was my first ever interaction in a discord server. because of how sweet and kind they were to me, i stayed in that server, and in the TOG fandom. it’s also because of her I got into JATP. most of all, i admire their tenacity in ensuring safe spaces for fans of colour, and i have fate in our future because of people like her. these spaces are just as important as those in real life and rai never shies away from ensuring that everyone pocs have a place to call their own in fandom. so i thank you for that. also, when i think rai, i think of nile (freeman) even if she’s most only in JATP now, and that can only mean good things.

@kingyusuf - *

dearest kit. again another amazingly gifted human. she keeps telling me that she’s still learning but have you SEEN the talent? there’s just so much to talk about and never enough time. her friendship that she has offered me is like no other. she has inspired me in so many ways, whether she believes it or not, but she is my muse. because when she prompts me, the words just flow. genovia au? her prompt. my yusuf artist joe author au? her prompt. the fic i going to post next? her prompt. there’s a pattern and it cannot be escaped. kit just inspires. her work inspires. i love everything she makes and if you haven’t seen it, please do so now. that, partnered with her kindness and enthusiasm and just constant presence and friendship and love? i am so thankful.

@spookyyusuf (marwankensari) - *

my lyra. probably the sweetest human to exist? possibly? but that’s not what this is about yet. look at her talent, just LOOK. she’s so amazing! i just adore it. the concepts of her gifs and the amount of work she dedicates to it! it’s just. she shares her resources and knowledge to others without hesitation, and is always there to help you, whether if you need an opinion or just...a friend. she is just the best, and i am thankful for her. i can and have talked to her about so many things that both fuels us, in both good ways and in bad, and i know i can trust her honest opinion. she’s generous with her time and words and resources and it’s just...how could i have gotten so lucky? truly a blessing of a human.

@ngoveronicas - *

you’ve probably seen me reblog her and go ‘ana is right and she should know it’, because honestly, yeah. ana is and she should know. if you love TOG and luca marinelli and you’re not following her, there’s something wrong with your algorithm, because she should be on your dash, now. i adore her not only for her edits and gifs but just *chefs kiss* commentary on anything really. she can talk about how much she hates bananas and i’d slam the reblog button so hard to the next universe i’m not kidding. i mostly talk to her in asks because i just can’t help myself, but every time it’s the best interaction. she is amazingly sweet and talented. everyone deserves to see her work.

anyways, check them out. super talented humans with big hearts, big minds and obviously amazing tastes. you’re just gonna be all the better for it when you’re done.

#edit rec #L rec #L declares her love #userkitskat #usermarwan #userai #tuservi #tog rec #geez kit #geez rai #geez lyra #geez ana #the old guard #300th post

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justanearth-boundmisfit · 5 years

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destielette1 replied to your post “It's fucking hilarious how you don't even have to give a hint...”

I sent the comment too fast anyway i was saying that the show and the fandom are agonizing, that’s a fact , I don’t think they can save it now , not with these writers , and not with the main reasons that made the show go to its 15th (no matter what the incest shippers say) are being treated like shit and literally killed, and I’m talking about both Cas and destiel.

We lost so many good people , so many excellent meta writers , like awed frog for example, people are fed up, thousands Shippers get fed up of their queer baiting and left the show, and it shows in the ratings. And the way the show been pandering to incest Shippers lately made things even uglier , I will always cherish Cas and Destiel no matter what , but I will not keep a good memory of Spn. I always said that a show success doesn’t lie in its longevity but in its ending ,

The shows that end badly are quickly forgotten , the main actors of these show often pay for the writers errors and they rarely find other significative roles again, just look at the actors of lost, this getting really long , I needed to someone who is not an hypocrite , thank you for trying to stay honest and don’t ever change , love you 🌹

I hope you don’t mind I put all your comments together because I think they are on point. And coming from you, and how much I know you love Destiel and Cas are incredible important right now.

Under the cut the rest because it got long... as usual...

I agree almost completely in all that you say. And I say almost because I think when spn ends is not going to be forgotten or forgiven. It’s going to stay in the history of queerbaiting tv forever. It’s already happening even before the show ends, the only thing that maintains it like you say, it’s destiel and Cas, and I’m saying this not as a shipper or a Cas’ fan, it’s simple facts. We don’t have to search too hard for these facts either, destiel has been on lists with otps and canon ships on major sites for quite a while now, everybody knows that making a list with deancas is surely going to get thousands of clicks, the polls always have them for the same reason. The amount of fics, art, codas, metas, articles about them is incredible. And we are talking about a ship that is not canon, and that Dabb made sure to kill it dead. Imagine if things were different, just imagine.

That’s why I say that spn is going to go infamous in that respect, is going to be up there with Sherlock, and the meltdown johnlock created is going to pale with the one we are going to have with spn. It’s going to be hard af to watch and I have been saying “please don’t listen or read meta bs that is is lying to you because is not healthy” like a parrot, because I KNOW some people are going to get hurt so so much.

I’m glad that I can finally started to distance myself a little from the show and from the ship, it’s really liberating not to be so down or angry all the time. Or just waiting for my 3 minutes of Cas every now and then just to be disappointed again, I’m not letting tptb do that to me ever again. And yeah it’s fiction, but fiction can hurt you too, can turn into an obsession, and that’s what happened with spn on so many levels... Tptb play with that constantly, and worst of all they know VERY WELL what they are doing. Metas like to talk about how “everything is so well crafted in the writer’s room!” and that “everything has a reason to be” yeah the reason is to keep fans watching, buying merch, going to cons, and spending money. Sorry not sorry, but spn at this point is so clearly just all about the money tptb can get out of fandom.

What is sad af, it’s the lost potential, spn could’ve been incredible, not only if destiel went canon, but if the writing wasn’t so shitty, repetitive and boring. Also metas likes to point out how “season 14 is all about characterization” lmao! If the 300th ep proved something is that they dgaf about characterization! They brought back John with a storyline that didn’t make sense AT ALL, it was pure fan service. They also like to point out how much the bros have expanded their family and “it’s not about only them anymore”. But again, the 300th proved them wrong, it’s all about blood family, it’s all about the bros (and I totally agree with you that we have so many wincest winks lately wtf). I have talked so many times why this is not going to change, that I feel the deja vu running through my veins. They have a formula, a formula that gave them 15 seasons, they are not going to change it, even if the ratings are down, they are stuck with their bs. Dabb’s era is the worst that I have seen, and I’m not afraid to say it. Even when I hated Gamble for so long, at least we had great eps now and then. But these last three years oh gods, they are so bad! They totally destroyed Cas and Dean, and deancas, and the myth arcs and lore were non-existent to them. Continuity? What’s that? And don’t make me talk about their obsession with abusive white males that they keep bringing back or giving a redemption arc too (ketch, john, nick/lucifer to name a few).

Ugh... there’s so much more to REALLY analyze about spn, instead of writing about parallels and the light, and the wardrobe. But alas, I’m no meta, and I’m really tired of all their bs. What I feel the most is the lost of great bloggers, friends and fans, I terribly missed them. Nowadays we have to go around social media, esp twitter, being really careful about what you say, otherwise the horde of positivity police will bury you shouting “you’re a casonly! you’re bitter and that is as bad as being a bronly! you’re the dark side of the fandom!” And that’s why metas and their positivity policing are also responsible for destroying fandom. It shows in the amount of blogs that are deleted or changed by fans, it shows in the mess that fanfiction is right now, it shows in the wars that we have and how much the fandom is divided. We have to thank them for that imo, I have seen them in action, I have experienced their policing. But idgaf about what they say about me or my little blog. I’m not shutting up, they can all go fuck themselves because I’m not forgiving or forgetting how much they clapped when tptb killed Cas in season 12. And they call US the dark side of the fandom? Lmao!

Sorry it go this long. But I’m venting and ranting, well you know me at this point. And I want to really thank you for your last words, because I know that we have different opinions on certain matters but you always showed me so much respect... I really appreciate it like you have no idea, because it shows me that we can all exchange opinions or think different but also we can be decent with each other. For me you’re one of the greatest in this fandom. I have to thank spn, despite everything, that I could meet people like you. All the hugs, and love you too.

#destielette1 #rant #vent #rant of rants #replies #ranty replies #opinions #don't like don't read #anti spn #just in case #destiel for ts #just in case too #anti metas bullshit #dirt for ts

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missjackil · 5 years

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My 14x08 Opinion

Byzanthium This one got me feeling some kinda way.... Lets start with Sam sitting bedside with Jack? Ughhh my heart!! Sam has sat bedside of people as they were dying, like Bobby and Claire, of course Dean, but you could see in his face and posture, this was a whole new feeling. A hint of anger came out for a second when Jack said “Tell him Im sorry” and Sam said “Tell him yourself!” but he got a grip and smiled softly “He’ll be right back” Jack couldnt have been any sweeter either. Of course this didnt help my heart any. “Sam?” “Yeah?” “What happens next? For regular guys like me?” “I dont know” “Then this will be an adventure” Hear that?? Thats my heart shattering!! The amount of emotions Sam showed was heartbreakingly refreshing. No, we didnt get any sobbing, (on screen) but Ive resigned that he saves that for when Dean dies only, but my boy was definitely heart broken. His storming off had me worried. Sam doesnt always make the best decisions with a broken heart. I liked that Dean wanted to give him space... all the way up til Cas told him he left on his own. Then well... space be damned right? I loved that Dean instantly worried Sam made a deal. I loved the scene with Sam angrily chopping the trees... it reminded me of Red Meat when Dean was taking it out on the trees also. Then he broke the axe head, he crumbled.... the self loathing came out once again that he cant even build his son a pyre. My boy was helpless and lost. Watch your step now, I havent gotten around to cleaning my heart up of the floor. Now, the “Getting loaded for Jack” scene will go down in my mind as a classic iconic scene forever. Along with great scenes like Sams arms opening as hes about to jump into the pit in Swan Song, the Church scene in Sacrifice, “Sammy Close your eyes” in My Brothers Keeper, the Night Moves scene in Baby. I will always remember this episode by that scene. It was beautifully shot, The candy bars were nothing less than adorable, Sam having a genuine, dimple filled smile. All 3 of them laughing, having fun, drunk off their asses. Then Sam flips his glass and staggers off.... tapped out. Now, how Sam didnt have a hangover the next morning, or how he came up with an idea how to bring Jack back after 5 whiskeys, shows my boy has some super powers I think LOL to bring Lily back was odd, but good. This showed me that even though they CAN bring people back from the dead, its still not an easy feat. They dont have a resurrection spell, or readily available demon to make a deal with, they didnt call on Billie. This is good. This will keep us wondering and worried about how they can bring each other back in the future. However, Lily coming back considerably shorter was weird... older, sure, I get it, but shorter? Anyway, I LOVED Sam angrily shouting “HE’S OUR KID!!!” at Lily. Its the first time Sam vocally acknowledged that he feels more for Jack than his friend or little brother. I know some of you think the whole “my 3 dads” thing is cheesey and too much like fanfic, but of everything they could have pulled out of fanfic. this one was pretty bold, and I think it works, and its beautiful. (Sure Id rather it just be Sam and Dean as daddies, but Ill accept the trio) The heaven scenes with Jack were good. Im glad he got time with Kelly. The heaven scenes with Cas and the angels was boring, and it seemed they didnt really know what to do with the Empty entity or what kind of deal Cas could make. So he makes a deal that seems as though he just cant let himself be happy. Not that big a deal, though it should upset the hellers eh? Since if he allows himself “to be happy with Dean” hes gonna get sucked into the Empty. So we end with them “knowing where Michael is” which could kill my “hiding in Dean” theory, but I still have that in my pocket because

Naomi said she had a general idea, so they dont know exactly

Dean still had those mysterious dizzy spells

Jensen said we will see Michael!Dean again at the 300th party

Jared said Sam will confront Michael

Trailers can be very missleading

Im looking forward to the mid season finale next week. One thing I will definitely say in favor of the post Kripke era, is the cliff hangers for the mid season are always good, even if the episode sucked, they always leave us on a cliff hanger that makes us stressed out and speculating for the whole hiatus. Kripke didnt do that so much, we had s1 “Oh dad is on the phone” S2 “Dean has a secret about Sam” S3 Very Supernatural Christmas and no cliff hanger. s4 Angels are gonna fight Demons (zzzzz) S5 Ellen and Jo died, and Lucifer cant be killed. Great episode, but not actually a cliff hanger. Where as even though S12 Lotus sucked, it was a great cliffy to have the boys carted off to Fed Prison. And last years being trapped in the Bad Place with a “dinosaur” or going back to Sam getting his soul back, or how dead is Bobby? You get the picture.

So needless to say I really loved this episode. A couple minor issues that wont really matter in the long run. So on a scale of Bloodlines to Who We Are Im gonna give this one a strong 9. Well done everyone... well done..

#my 14x08 opinion #14x08 spoilers #byzanthium spoilers #very good one #oh my heart

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nellie-elizabeth · 5 years

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Supernatural: The Spear (14x09)

I mean, I'm not surprised, but it still hurts!

Cons:

It bothers me that nobody put together that Dean was vulnerable to Michael. It makes sense that Dean would push through and not share his weird shaky-vision stuff with his family, but Sam puts together that Michael's grace made Garth vulnerable to possession, so why wouldn't he then make the logical leap to Dean's vulnerability? I think this could have been fixed if Sam didn't figure out the Garth thing until maybe right before they enact their plan on Michael. It would be a domino effect, where Sam would put the pieces together but not fast enough to stop the inevitable. Instead, this feels like a huge oversight for Sam not to figure it out.

Also... did we really go to a mid-season hiatus on a Thanos snap? That had to be an intentional reference, right? Kind of annoying.

I liked seeing Dark!Kaia again, but every time she comes up as a plot point it just reminds me that Wayward Sisters didn't get picked up. I bet whatever they had planned for her would have been way cooler than what we're getting here.

Pros:

So much good stuff here. I love that we have our four boys teaming up to take on Michael, and that we're seeing so many good character moments and fun interactions along the way. Let's start with the bad guy stuff, though:

Michael in a female vessel was properly intimidating, and I love the way that played out. Garth as a secret agent was a pretty cool idea, although part of me wonders how that conversation came about, and I wish we could have seen Sam reach out to Garth to ask him for this huge favor. But setting that aside, I really liked all the scenes with Garth and Michael. Garth is a funny, light-hearted guy, but his terror about his situation really shone through. Supernatural has an annoying habit of bringing back old favorites just to kill them off, but luckily this time Garth made it through to live another day. But we now know that Michael can pop in and out of any vessel that contains his grace, so Garth might have some rough times ahead. I hope we get to see that play out.

Ketch gets a brief cameo as he informs our heroes that he has sent a valuable tool to defeat Michael through the mail. I love how his smugness transformed into chagrin when he realized that he'd deprived them of a much-needed weapon. Ketch likes to be seen as ultra-competent, but here he has failed in a frankly hilarious way, leading to Jack and Sam having to break into a post office on Christmas Eve to retrieve their magic weapon.

I love Jack so very much, and I love that even in an episode that isn't focused solely on him, we still see so many hints of how he has grown, and how he feels about his three dads. The scene with Michael, where the archangel is trying to relate with Jack and talk about their future, is so fascinating to me, because we're seeing Jack play out some character beats that we've already seen with Cas. Both are incredibly long-lived beings who have chosen to become family with these two remarkable humans. Michael thinks he might be able to wiggle in between Jack and these new bonds, but Jack isn't likely to be swayed by his evil alternate-universe uncle, not after what he experienced with Lucifer. Oh, also, I adore that we got a Michael-in-the-cage shout-out. Does that mean our OG Michael might be making a re-appearance? Now that would be fascinating.

Cas and Jack have a nice little father-son bonding moment over sugary cereal, which I thought was adorable. There's been a great deal of Jack and Dean relationship focus this season, which I love, but it's important to go back to Jack's initial bonds, too, and that means more focus on Cas and Sam. I love that Sam and Jack got to go on a little adventure just the two of them. Sam was so proud of Jack for picking a lock, and then so frantic with worry when Jack was taken.

Of course, Sam and Jack being paired off means we got time with just Dean and Cas which is a dream come true. We have the very depressing moment when Dean, fired up about the chance to kill Michael, says that they got a big win with no strings attached when they got Jack back. Cas obviously doesn't tell Dean the truth, but it's just so heartbreaking to watch Cas' face in that moment. Later, Dean says he won't truly be happy until he's killed Michael, and he says that his experience with Michael gave him new perspective on the horrors that Sam and Cas both went through when possessed by Lucifer. This "truly happy" line obviously echos the Empty's promise to Cas, and I'm getting really nervous about how they're going to break our hearts with this later on. I feel like Cas and Dean made a really good team in this episode. We saw how seamlessly they can work together, and how comfortable they are in each other's company.

There are lots of delightful little moments where we see how much these people care for each other. My favorite is when Dean and Cas are having trouble getting a hold of Sam, and they're both really worried about him. Sam finally calls, delivering the bad news that Michael has Jack. They race to go meet Sam, but Cas' final words are warning him not to go in there alone. Sam seems to agree, but of course he barges in anyway, desperate to get Jack out of there. Dean is obviously pissed off about this, but Sam said he had no choice, where Jack was concerned. There was a good economy of language in these moments, showing exactly how scared Cas and Dean were about Sam and Jack, without making a big point out of it.

And that ending. Like I said, this is surprising to absolutely nobody. Of course Michael has a way to get back in and control Dean once more. I loved his explanation - Dean was too squirmy when Michael was possessing him before. Dean couldn't gain control, but he was so desperate to get back to his family that he was annoying the archangel. So... Michael left. He wanted to get to a situation where Dean would realize that he was truly trapped, that there was no real escape for him. Now, instead of fighting every step of the way, Michael says that Dean is truly gone.

This is exactly what I predicted would happen, and I'm still super pleased with the result. I've been looking forward to seeing Michael!Dean more ever since we got those first few glimpses of him. There was so much we didn't get to experience before, namely, Cas and Sam playing off of possessed Dean, trying to get through to him. Now we get to see that, and we get to see Jensen play around with this evil character some more. I also like the way the moment was shot, where Dean is hesitating, confused, and then we just see his back as Sam, Cas, and Jack watch him break Kaia's spear. He turns around, and the struggle is already over - Dean is gone, and nobody had a chance to even try to intervene. That's pretty chilling!

I know that Jeffrey Dean Morgan will be returning for the 300th... I'm keeping my mouth shut on that one until I see how it plays out, though. Could be awesome, could be irritating. I can't wait to find out!

9/10

#review #supernatural #supernatural review #spn #spn 14x09 #14x09

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timepetalscollective · 6 years

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Of Time Lords and Disney Movies

Fandom: Doctor Who Author: @darthtella Rating: All ages

The Doctor really didn’t know anything about himself anymore, except for a few things. He knew that he had a slight weakness in the dorsal tubercle of his wrist. He delightfully had more hair than he had before, but he was disappointed when Rose told him it was just sort-of brown and not ginger, and the same was probably true for his newly acquired sideburns. He also thought he had really bad skin, but he loved the mole situated between his shoulder blades. He was also a bit thinner than his previous self, which he knew would take some getting used to. He knew that sometime during his post-regenerative coma he was relieved of his leather coat and dressed in pajamas. He felt that this had to be the work of one Jackie Tyler and would just add to the awkward encounters he had with that woman.

He was learning new things as well. Like how he might just be rude given how he just shouted at Rose for giving up on him. Like how the sense of taste could go a long way to discovering the truth of the matter. For example he just figured out that the Sycorax were controlling every human with A positive blood by just dipping his finger into the small pool of blood resting inside a control matrix and tasting it. Oh, and he learned that he just LOVED pressing great big threatening buttons that must never-ever be pressed under any circumstances.

“Blood control is just one form of conquest. I can summon the armada and take this world by force.” The Sycorax leader bellowed at the Doctor.

“Well, yeah, you could. Yeah. You could do that, of course you could.” Rambling. That was also something new for this body. It was like his mouth needed something to do while his brain worked out problems. But something that wasn’t new, something that he had since his very first body was compassion for humans, and he felt it bubbling up inside this new body. “But why?” He asked putting an almost pleading tone into his voice and extending his hand at the small group of humans standing nearby. “Look at these people. These human beings. Consider their potential. From the day they arrive on the planet and, blinking, step into the sun, there is more to see than can ever be seen, more to do than… No, hold on.” He lapsed into a brief moment of quiet contemplation. He recognised those words from somewhere, but with his newly rewired brain it took him a moment to remember…

—

It all started with Rose’s humming.

She had sauntered into the console room humming happily to herself when Jack’s ears seemed to perk up and he started humming in return. The tune was familiar, and he knew there were lyrics. He hummed a few more bars and then started quietly singing “Hakuna matata what a wonderful phrase…” Rose turned to look at the ex-time agent with a bewildered look on her face.

“You know the words?” She gaped at him. Jack responded with a disarming smile.

“Rose, in the 51st Century, Walt and Roy Disney are considered to be two of Earth’s greatest storytellers.”

“Don’t see why!” A gruff northern voice rang out from somewhere beneath the Time Rotor. Jack and Rose looked down and watched as the Doctor wriggled his way out from where he was making his repairs and glared up at them. “They just regurgitated what other writers had done before him, watered the stories down and turned them into children’s films! A great many of them weren’t even written by them anyways. You want great story telling; try actually reading Hans Christian Anderson or Shakespeare!” Rant over, the Doctor lowered himself back under the Time Rotor and began sonicing the wiring indiscriminately. Rose rolled his eyes at the Doctor.

“Have you ever actually watched any of them?” The Doctor turned his head so he could see her through the floor grating with his patented ‘you just dribbled down your shirt, you stupid ape’ look on his face.

“I’m 900 years old. You really think I’ve any interest in watching films made for children?”

“Says the man I caught crying while reading Harry Potter…” Jack snickered. “Got a really nice photo of that moment too.” The Doctor ratcheted his glare up a couple more notches and quickly heaved himself up on to his feet.

“Book seven was really…” He started to speak but cut himself short when he realised he was saying a bit too much. “Anyway, I really don’t see what you people find so facinatin’ about Disney films. I mean you’re adults and you’re still singing songs out of those things!”

“Oh c'mon, Doctor. They’re fun!” Rose smiled at him.

“Fun?!” He almost shouted. “I can’t see how a film made for children is fun!”

“Says the man who was laughing his head off whilst riding the dogem’s at that 300th Century fair last week, where I’m sure 90% of the people around us were children.” Rose deadpanned. The Doctor opened and closed his mouth several times trying to conjure up a witty response, but only was able to manage a very grumpy sounding “Shut up.”

“There’s no convincing you, is there?” Jack piped up.

“Nope!” The Doctor smiled sarcastically. Then Rose got an idea.

“You fancy yourself a scientist, don’t you Doctor?” He furrowed his brow and crossed his arms in front of him, unsure of where this random line of thought was coming from.

“Suppose I do.” He relented.

“Then I propose an experiment.” One of his eyebrows shot up. “You watch one Disney film with us.” He dramatically rolled his blue eyes. “An’ if you don’t like it, you never have to watch another one ever again.”

“Does that also mean you’ll stop whistling show-tunes while in my presence?” He looked pointedly between Rose and Jack. The two humans shared a look between them and both nodded their assent.

“Fine, one film.” The Doctor sighed waving a single finger in the air. “Just one. So you better make it count.”

Five minutes later, the three of them were seated on the couch with great big bowls of popcorn in the TV room that had materialised on the TARDIS just shortly after Rose arrived on board. The Doctor made sure to seat himself between Jack and Rose lest the two humans decided to start any shenanigans during the film, not because of that uneasy, almost jealous feeling he felt whenever Jack was around him and Rose (at least, that’s what he told himself anyway).

“So, which one is it then?” The Doctor asked around a mouthful of popcorn as Jack pointed the remote at the screen. Rose shot him her signature tongue in teeth smile.

“My absolute favourite: The Lion King.” The Doctor sighed heavily as the lights in the room dimmed and the film started. He cringed when he realised it was a musical, although the first number was quite impressive, but the whole “I Just Can’t Wait to Be King” thing was almost cringe worthy (especially since the humans flanking him couldn’t help but sing along off-key). He also tried several times to point out that animals on Earth really couldn’t talk like that, but was always interrupted by a sharp elbow to the ribs. So, they could sing along and he couldn’t point out scientific inaccuracies? Fantastic! He grumpily shoved more popcorn into his mouth as he watched the two lion cubs run away from three hungry hyenas before being rescued by who he assumed was the titular lion king (who sounded amusingly like Darth Vader).

Then a section of dialogue came up that grabbed his full attention.

“I was just trying to be brave, like you.” The little cub sobbed.

“I’m only brave when I have to be. Simba, being brave doesn’t mean you go looking for trouble.” His father said softly. Well, if only a certain jeopardy friendly girl he knew understood that. With a smug grin, he playfully nudged his shoulder with Rose’s, hoping she’d take the hint.

“But you’re not scared of anything.” Simba continued.

“I was today.”

“You were?”

“Yes. I thought I might lose you.”

His smile suddenly faded. Thoughts of being stuck in Downing Street trying to stop the Slitheen ran through his mind.

“I could save the world, but lose you.”

He felt his hearts constrict. How could a film designed for children no less convey those emotions so perfectly? He was so lost in thought, he didn’t even know that he had slid his arm protectively around Rose’s shoulder until he realised she was staring at him. His face turned a deep shade of crimson and he was about to remove his arm, but Rose only laughed softly and leaned her head on his shoulder. They stayed like that for a long time. He hugged her even tighter when Mufasa died, knowing exactly how she felt when her own father was killed. When Rose and Jack sang along to the song they were humming in the console room earlier, the Doctor actually found himself smiling during that song too, realising he was actually striving to live the “Hakuna Matata” lifestyle every day. (At least, that was the plan…)

Then the next song started, and Jack couldn’t contain his laughter.

“Is our trio already down to two?” He joked, seeing how the Doctor had his arm around Rose and how she in turn had slung her arm around his middle.

“Quiet, tryin’ to watch here.” The Doctor shot back, not budging an inch. It was perfectly fine for two best friends to sit like that, he reasoned.

They watched the rest of the film in silence. The Doctor felt surprisingly elated when the evil Scar was vanquished and Simba took his place as the rightful king of the restored Pride Lands.

“So, what'cha think? Not so bad, eh?” Rose asked as she sat up from her surprisingly comfy Time Lord pillow. He just shrugged non-committedly.

—

“Sorry, that’s The Lion King.”

#ficandchips #doctor x rose #fic submission #submission

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