#(jin ling is FINE and does not cling to his dog after this)

[dalamood]

And at the bottom of the box lay

((Fierce corpse Wen Qing, post-canon, horrible concoction of novel elements into CQL-verse, just run with it. You WILL come to appreciate second person perspective.))

The biggest task after Jin Guangyao's death, the one that no other sect could help with, nor currently-sectless-and-already-far-too-involved Wei Wuxian, is tidying up the Jin Sect. Much of it, you  can delegate in theory, but in practice,you have no idea who you can safely delegate things to. Some of the people in Koi Tower are loyal only to Jin Guangyao; some were loyal to your grandparents. None of them are really loyal to you.

You curse Wei Wuxian for revealing himself, under your breath, because if he hadn't, then "Mo Xuanyu," as yet another of your grandfather's bastard children, could have helped you with this. And you really could use the help; no one would have questioned you rescinding your youngest uncle's exile.

As it is, all you have is Fairy and the knowledge that Jiujiu rebuilt the Jiang sect from less (but perhaps that was easier, to begin with a blank slate), and the distant support of the Jiang, Lan, and Nie. Even if the lesser sects would love to chew you up and spit you out, you can be confident that Jiang Cheng will ward off any outsider threats.

So it's just the inside of Koi Tower you have to worry about. The treasure hall is... Okay, you aren't actually going to open some of the warded cupboards without Wei Wuxian here, actually, you know now that one of them had the head of a fierce corpse in it so who knows what else might be in those. But the rest of it should be fairly easy to go through. Some of it was from Qin Su's dowry, and you can return those objects to her family. It's the least you can do, now that the truth of that marriage has come out and disgraced their sect by proxy.

That's how you plan to spend the first day. But things go off the rails pretty much immediately, because you bring Fairy into the treasure room with you. It's just meant as a precaution, but you can't shake the thought that this dog has saved your life by going for help once already.

You tell Fairy to lay down, but the dog, in a way that's almost unheard of, ignores you to start furiously sniffing the room. He starts pawing at one of the chests covered in talismans that are clearly demonic cultivation - the largest one, big enough that you haven't even considered moving it, the one you'll have to actually bring Wei Wuxian inside to take a look at it.

"What is it?" you ask the dog, who whines, pawing at the chest, and then stopping to look back at you with a tilted head before barking harshly, the sound echoing in the enclosed space of the treasure room. Your throat goes tight.

Spiritual dogs raised by the Jin Sect are trained in a number of signals to communicate with their masters. If either Wei Wuxian or Lan Wangji had been more familiar with them, they would have recognized Fairy's behaviour at the Nie burial shrine as the signal for a living person trapped. The same signals the dog is now giving his master, though with an undercurrent of uncertainty that you've never seen before, like Fairy is only mostly sure that the person is alive.

You gulp. There are a lot of signals you can ignore, but not that one. Not when it might be weeks before Wei Wuxian appears again - you haven't even sent to Cloud Recesses for his help yet - and it's already been days since the last time Jin Guangyao was in here. Days since the last time a person in that chest would have been given water, nevermind food.

"Guard," you tell Fairy. You'll have to put your sword down to remove the talismans. You send a butterfly through the mirror first, and then after a moment's hesitation, a second one. The first is to the servants; the second is to Wei Wuxian. In a worst-case scenario, you're sure he'll find some way to sneak in here again.

Then you set about opening the chest. Talisman-by-talisman, papers building up on the floor next to you, some of the marks on them close to familiar but just different enough that you can't be sure of their function. Resentful energy begins to leak out of the corners of the chest, through the wood and holes in the protections that must be worked on the inside. You bite your lip, pausing in your work to run your fingers reassuringly through Fairy's fur.

With this level of resentful energy, the person inside is probably a demonic cultivator. Not that that really means anything, not when the two demonic cultivators you've actually met were as far at opposite ends of the scale as possible, but it's suddenly very uncomfortable being a Jin and opening this chest. People always used to say that you look like one of your uncles and acted like the other; you know the resemblance between you and the person who put the prisoner in this chest is strong.

The resentful energy curls around your fingers as you set the last talisman down. You undo the latches on the chest, using the keys you now carry, the Sect Leader's keys that Lan Xichen, with shaking fingers, had wordlessly handed you, not saying a word and not meeting your eyes. There was blood on them, then, and you can't erase the memory of it.

One lock, two. Whoever is in the chest isn't fighting to open it, at least, so you're able to take a deep breath, toss the keys aside, and left your sword. If they're still alive, they're probably too weak to fight, but you can afford the extra moment to be cautious.

(You're a cultivator, and your duty is to protect the weak, no matter where you find them.)

With Suihua's tip, you dig into the gap between lid and chest. It takes more effort than you expect. You have to push to flip the lid back, and when you do, a cloud of dust billows up in front of you.

You immediately cough and cover your mouth with the sleeve of your sword arm, waving your other arm to clear the air. Fairy barks once, and then whines before sitting next to your leg. There's no sound from inside the chest.

You shake your head and lean forward to look inside. The figure inside the chest is curled up among numerous talismans, the yellow papers not so much as fluttering. It's a woman, thin and small for all that she takes up almost all the space within the chest, her body arranged awkwardly as though she couldn't entirely bend her arms and legs. Her hair is loose, obscuring her face, but her robes...

A single layer of almost transparent red silk, over rough linen and wool. Both layers have seen much better days, but it's the red silks - red as wedding clothes - that make you stare. No one would dare to wear red that brilliant anymore, not in the entire time you've been alive, because...

The woman's hand is grey, and she isn't breathing. And yet the resentful energy still pours off her in waves, as she sits in her box, as she has sat in this box for who knows how long. There is a different quality to it, like a living thing, like the only other time you've been close enough to a member of the Wen sect to touch them.

You reach out, every tendon straining against your fear, and brush the woman's hair back, away from her face. Her eyes are closed. Your fingers hesitate over the line of black across her throat, the mark of a garrote matching the line of red still across your own, except deeper, fatal, and then stitched up by some careful hand with red thread.

Even in death, Wen Qing looks enough like her brother that even you can recognize her.

Fairy barks, sounding satisfied. Startled, your fingers brush the skin of Wen Qing's throat (cold, as a corpse, but with an energy underneath), and her eyes shoot open.

They aren't bright and clear, the unsettling life you're used to seeing in the Ghost General. They're the milky white of Song Lan's in Yi City, the empty white of a fierce corpse under someone else's control.

You jerk your hand back and slam the lid closed. There's no movement, but you slap a talisman on top of the chest just in case. You don't know if a fierce corpse with their will taken will try anything, but better safe than sorry.

"Come on, Fairy," you say, fighting back the fear in your voice. "Let's... Let's leave this until Wei Wuxian gets here, all right?"

Fairy sniffs at the chest one more time and whines, but dutifully follows you as you very much to do not run from the room.

#mdzs #cql #mo dao zu shi #wen qing #jin ling #multipart #please save jin ling he's not at all prepared for this #sometimes you're going through your dead uncle's stuff and find a pretty lady #who supposedly died when you were an infant #(well she did die just not all the way) #(it's FINE) #(jin ling is FINE and does not cling to his dog after this) #(I have no idea what fairy's gender actually canonically is so forgive me)

[ouyangzizhensdad]

RE: WWX and his arc being about trauma. I got into the fandom through CQL and the first time I saw it I actually read a lot of his actions post the burning of Lotus Cove as being influenced by his trauma. He's paranoid even before getting thrown into the burial mounds. He seems to be self medicating with alchohol (which WQ kinda calls him out on). He over-reacts to a lot things, which seems to me like a nasty case of emotional dysregulation as a result of PTSD. He avoids all kinds (1/3)

Of reminders of his tramua, his sword being the greatest example but there were other little things. He never gave much of a fuck about propriety but the way he completely igonres it (and the possible social fallout) later speaks to me less about not caring and more about not *having* the emotional capacity to care, much like what happens with depression. Plus, a lot of his behaviour can be read with various shades of being self destructive, and there are just in general a lot of points (2/3)

Where it's made clear that he's in a pretty bad headspace (him crying about being useless in the burial mounds for example), but none of that ever really gets dealt with so all of those issues are still hanging under the surface even if they're not apparent all the time. I mean, this is just my take, but at least imo WWX ticks a lot of the checkboxes for PTSD in the drama and it explains a lot about the way he acts and the bad decisions he makes. Hope this was helpful! (3/3)

I'm only referring to the drama btw, not the novel (which I haven't read yet). My memory is terrible so I'm not sure if I made it clear or not lol. Anyways, have a good day ^^

Hi there, 

I am always curious when people who have only engaged with CQL end up engaging with my novel-only meta blog but perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised: if CQL posts end up in the mdzs tag, why not the opposite? I’ve seen some of my novel meta reblogged and tagged with “the untamed” and “CQL” so maybe the answer is already out there, staring at me in the face! 

I’ll start by saying that I do not wish to really argue with people’s interpretations of CQL since I consider that MDZS and CQL are very different works because so many changes were made in the process of adapting the novel, and I personally have no interest in analysing CQL except wrt  how it can help us better understand the novel (seeing certain elements removed or changed may help us understand why they mattered in the first place or what their use was). So I will speak to the arguments that could be applied to the novel and why *I* don’t think WWX’s arc in the novel is about trauma, and why I don’t think that picking up certain behaviours that can be exhibited by people with PTSD (but not exclusively by people with PTSD) is enough in itself to support the idea that a character’s arc is about trauma/shaped by PTSD. That does not mean that my interpretation is the only acceptable one--I am aware that a lot of people disagree with me on this and see trauma as a central theme/central part of WWX’s arc--and so I expect that a lot of people will disagree with my points (hopefully after they’ve read this post in good faith). And that’s perfectly fine: how likely is it that we can find another person who will agree 100% with our own interpretation of a work of fiction? And having divergent opinions floating around the fandom, or having to develop counter-arguments is a good way to strengthen our own pov if we don’t find ourselves convinced by that other interpretation, so it’s all good. 

So first, I’ll address the biggest point of my argument before moving to address more specific points you raise in your ask. For me, WWX’s characterisation is not about trauma but about resilience. 

So first, let’s clarify some things. Going through adversity/experiencing a situation that is difficult =/= experiencing trauma. Trauma is a concept referring to a potential response to going through adversity/experiencing something distressing or disturbing. In short, trauma as it is conceptualised and understood is not universal: not only in the sense that is a spatiotemporally specific concept used to make certain experiences intelligible, but as the reaction to difficult events (as well, what is considered to be an experience that falls under that concept is not itself universal and can take many gorms, and the behaviours and thoughts associated with trauma are generally not exclusive to it, ie having certain behaviours/thought processes is not an automatic proof that someone is dealing with trauma/ptsd). So after all this word vomit I want to clarify that my intent is not to suggest that WWX doesn’t go through experiences that are likely to cause trauma, but that to me, what is being portrayed is a different reaction to these events: resilience (if a slightly more “fictional” portrayal of resilience than what it would be presented in psychology/psychiatry). 

Resilience refers to how people adapt or recover successfully from adversity/distressing situation/stress. That does not mean that people’s first reaction to adversity/distressing situations will be not defined by negative emotions, of course. For instance, I don’t think WWX’s heightened paranoia/emotional state directly after the fall of LP when he goes to look for JC is an indication of trauma because at this point WWX is still deep in the middle of that moment of adversity: he’s still a fugitive in the middle of a war, in the middle of danger. This also doesn’t mean that people cannot still have some temporary negative reactions to things that happened to them, afterwards: WWX having to pause when JC presents him with Suibian after he returns from Mass Grave Hill is not inherently an indication of trauma as it can be read that his sword a reminder of the difficult sacrifice he made--and the consequences he faced as a result (just because a situation was not traumatic doesn’t mean we enjoy revisiting it).

Why I think that WWX’s arc or characterisation is about resilience rather than trauma is because of many things, but mostly I want to point out two sections of the novel in particular. 

First, this characterisation of WWX through JYL that we get relatively early in the novel:

Most memories from back then were already blurred. Yet, Jin Ling’s mother, Jiang Yanli, remembered all of them, and even told him quite a few. She said that, after his father heard of the news that his parents both died in battle, he had always dedicated himself to finding the child that these past friends had left behind. After searching for a while, he finally found the child in Yiling. 

The first time they met, Wei Wuxian was kneeling on the ground, eating the fruit peels that somebody tossed on the ground. Yiling’s winter and spring were quite cold, yet the child only wore thin layers. His knees were already tattered, and on his feet were two different shoes that didn’t fit at all. As he was looking down, searching for fruit peels, Jiang Fengmian called him. He still remembered that there was a “Ying” in his name, so he lifted his head. Although his cheeks were both red and chapped from the cold, he still wore a smile. 

Jiang Yanli said that he was born with a smiling look. No matter what unfortunate thing happened, he wouldn’t cling on to them; no matter what situation he was in, he would be happy. Although it sounded a bit heartless, it really was not bad.

This refers to a time of his life that is extremely difficult: he lost both his parents suddenly, at a young age, became suddenly homeless with no means to feed himself except to beg, and yet the only trauma he seems to carry from this experience is related to dogs. To me, this is a clear move from MXTX to position WWX as the kind of protagonist who can face a storm and keep his smile on his face. I can imagine that some people take it perhaps as a subversion, as the text telling us that WWX is weathering it all with a smile but underneath it all he is just a bundle of unaddressed trauma. And that’s certainly a possible interpretation, but it’s not mine. In this case I think the text is being straightforward. What we see of WWX also seems to support that: the way WWX just rolls with being brought back from the death, how easily he finds a way to adapt to things, etc.

I also find it meaningful that the novel choses to include in its ultimate chapter this discussion as part of its wrap-up of WWX’s journey and of Wangxian’s relationship.

After they left the shop, Wei Wuxian still sat on Xiao Pingguo while Lan Wangji held the reins in front.Swaying left and right atop the donkey, Wei Wuxian took the flute from his waist and placed it by his lips. The limpid notes flew across the sky like birds. Lan Wangji halted and listened quietly.

It was the song he sang for Wei Wuxian when they were stuck in the Xuanwu cave. It was also the song that Wei Wuxian just so happened to have played at Dafan Mountain, the song that enabled Lan Wangji to confirm his identity.

When he finished, Wei Wuxian winked his left eye towards Lan Wangji.

“How was it? Beautiful, huh?”

Lan Wangji slowly nodded. “For once.”

Wei Wuxian knew that ‘for once’ referred to how his memory was good for once. He could not help but smile.

“Don’t always be so angry about it. It was my fault in the past, alright? Besides, my terrible memory should be accredited to my mom.” Wei Wuxian propped his arm on Xiao Pingguo’s head, spinning Chenqing in his hand. “My mom said you have to remember the things others do for you, not the things you do for others. Only when people don’t hold so much in their hearts would they finally feel free.”

This was one of the only things he remembered about his parents.

Of course, this is not a direct reference to resilience as it is explored in psychology. But to me it speaks to that idea: one of the biggest lesson WWX has kept with him, one of his only memory of--and thus legacy from--his parents, is this idea that we should not hold so much in our hearts. It also reframes his bad memory as being the result of a philosophy, of an approach to life that not just about being grateful/paying your debts to others, but also a form of resilience, in a sense. 

As well, I find that a lot of people who go with the trauma interpretation see WWX’s actions and thoughts processes dyring his YLLZ’s days as being the result of his ptsd, where I personally read it as the influence of modao. I am aware as well that some people do not think that modao actually harmed WWX during that period of his life, but I don’t think that LWJ would have been worried if there were not reasons to believe it would:

One against two, Lan Wangji still refused to back off. He gazed at Wei Wuxian, “Wei Ying, for cultivating an evil path you would eventually have to pay. Throughout time, there has not been a single exception.”

Wei Wuxian, “I can pay.”

Seeing how unconcerned he seemed to be, Lan Wangji lowered his voice, “The path would not only damage your body, but your heart as well (此道损身，更损心性。)”

So now, onto the specific points you raised in the ask.

Self-medicating with alcohol: WWX is shown to enjoy and drink large amounts of alcohol before the fall of LP and after most of the events of the novel have unfolded. In the novel, while WQ tries to make WWX stop drinking, it is as likely to believe that it is for his health (now that he doesn’t have a golden core) than it would be because she was worried he was self-medicating. As well, heavy drinking is a very normalized behaviour (although most physicians don’t think it’s a good thing) in a lot of cultures and times, and considering WWX’s higher tolerance and his general demeanor while imbricated, his drinking is not shown to have a negative effect on his ability to live his life. The line between “self-soothing” (normal aspect of being humans dealing with emotions and hardships) and “self-medicating” (pathological) is hard to trace with alcohol consumption. As well, just because people with PTSD may self-medicate with alchohol doesn’t mean all people who self-medicate with alcohol do it because of PTSD. 

He's paranoid even before getting thrown into the burial mounds. As I mentioned briefly before, WWX is at the time a fugitive in the middle of a war: he’s still in the middle of those stressful events and his paranoia is not necessarily a maladaptive response since they are still very much fugitives in the middle of a war. Trauma is not really your reaction during but in the aftermath. It would be more telling if WWX were still exhibiting signs of paranoia in situations where he would have no reasons to. 

He over-reacts to a lot things, which seems to me like a nasty case of emotional dysregulation as a result of PTSD. I’m not certain at which reactions you are referring to here, but especially considering that some of this might be chalked up to acting choices since this is based on CQL, I probably won’t address this one point too much in relation to the novel. I do want to emphasize though that we’ve seen prior to Sunshot campaign that WWX can be quite impulsive in certain situations (hitting JZX for insulting Shijie, which he does both before and after the events of the Sunshot Campaign). As well, I do think it’s important to remember that he is still in the middle of the war during the Sunshot campaign, and that he is also hiding something pretty important from the people close to him and living a sort of double life, on top of experiencing fatigue/hunger in a way he hasn’t for years due to the loss of his golden core. In short, there are a lot of things going on that can be used to explain what can be seen as “over-reactions” without necessarily going with PTSD.

avoids all kinds  reminders of his trauma, his sword being the greatest example but there were other little things. I’ve broached in my previous discussions, but it’s also pertinent to remember his mom’s philosophy: we can also see this as WWX trying to leave in the pass this difficult sacrifice he made in order to move forward. 

He never gave much of a fuck about propriety but the way he completely ignores it (and the possible social fallout) later speaks to me less about not caring and more about not *having* the emotional capacity to care, much like what happens with depression. I have to disagree with that interpretation of WWX and WWX’s actions, but again this might just be a case of CQL-only vs novel-only interpretations of the character. One thing WWX thinks about being reborn in a “lunatic’s” body is that he’ll get to have fun, the way he never could when his actions reflected on others. So while at times WWX flaunts propriety, he is aware of how his actions can impact others and show in different situations that he is aware of propriety. His choice to protect the Wen Remnants goes against that, for sure, but it isn’t necessarily a case of not understanding the possible social fallout so much as putting other things (ie his life-debt towards WN and WQ) before propriety, as we can see for example in this exchange.

Jiang Cheng, “I’m the one who fucking wants to give you a thrashing! Yes, they helped us before, but why in the world don’t you understand that right now any remnant of the Wen Sect is a target of criticism! No matter who they are, with a surname of Wen they have committed a most heinous crime! And those who protect the Wen are at risk of being condemned by everyone! All the people loathe the Wen-dogs so badly that the worse they die the better. Whoever protects them is against the entire world. Nobody would speak for them, and nobody would speak for you either!”

“I don’t need anyone to speak for me.”

[...]

Swords unsheathed, the two stared at each other for a while. Neither was willing to take a single step back. A while later, Jiang Cheng spoke, “Wei Wuxian, have you still not realized what the situation at hand is like? Do you really need me to say it out loud? If you insist on protecting them, then I won’t be able to protect you.”

“There’s no need to protect me. Just let go.”

Jiang Cheng’s face twisted.

Wei Wuxian, “Just let go. Tell the world that I defected. From now on, no matter what Wei Wuxian does, it’d have nothing to do with YunmengJiangShi.”

“… All for the Wen Sect…? Wei Wuxian, do you have a savior complex? Is it that you’ll die if you don’t stand up for someone and stir up some trouble?”

Wei Wuxian stayed quiet. A while later, he answered, “So that’s why we should cut ties right now, in case anything I do affects YunmengJiangShi in the future.”

a lot of his behaviour can be read with various shades of being self destructive Which ones, specifically? I’m not trying to be obtuse, but I’m not sure which ones you mean. 

he's in a pretty bad headspace (him crying about being useless in the burial mounds for example) It needs to be said that the crying is only in CQL (it was an acting choice by XZ). My memory is playing tricks on me, but I think pre-rebirth we only see him cry after he kills JZX and after JYL’s death? Someone please fact-check me on this. 

Since I don’t believe it was MXTX’s intent to make WWX’s characterisation and arc about trauma, I do feel like interpreting the different behaviours as signs of his PTSD might lead us to miss out on other potential interpretations or meanings behind these choices, if we put aside the PTSD angle. It may also lead us to deny the text the possibility to signify something different through these behaviours and signs, especially on a thematic level--to explore something about how events and emotions shape us in a manner that exists outside of modern psychiatric classification.

TLDR (because god this got long): My point is not that WWX is unaffected by the things that happened to him or the things he’s done during this portion of his life: of course he is! Especially as they are happening to him, or when he is still stuck in a very difficult situation. But I don’t think his character and his arc is about trauma but instead about resilience. That, at the end of MDZS, WWX is still the person JYL described: No matter what unfortunate thing happened, he wouldn’t cling on to them.

#wintersrchild #mdzs meta #mdzs #wwx #maybe i should tag this as unpopular opinion? just in case