#(though y'know. based on the stuff he's saying in canon I don't think 'comforting' was the vibe he was going for when he talks)

[avelera]

"Nice is Different than Good" Character Interpretation: Hob Gadling as Kind of a Bastard

Ok, slightly controversial take on Hob Gadling Is Kind of a Bastard that I've been toying with. It runs counter to some wonderful let me be clear, amazing fanon I've seen in some fics, so this is much more me going, "Hey, here's a way to do it different that might work better in different stories fan writers might want to tell," and not to invalidate other takes or even to put forth that I think this is necessarily true of Hob in a meta sense, it's just shining a light on the text from a different direction, y'know?

Hob as Neutral Evil (credit to Winter on the big dreamling server for this concept!)

I'm obsessed with the idea that Hob is neutral evil on ye olde D&D alignment chart because it makes so much sense if the axis for evil is primarily based on selfishness.

Primary evidence? How casually he talks in 1489 about having done a bit of soldiering and banditry. Those jobs are about killing people. Maybe not all the time as a bandit, ideally, but even then it's about taking their stuff. There is absolutely zero remorse in Hob's tone about being a soldier and a bandit just because he's at his most wide-eyed innocent and has since picked up a trade.

Hob as Politically Conservative until at least 1789 but possibly until 1989

Hob as far as I can tell is a model of the white male middle class existence in England throughout what we define as more or less the "modern era". As far as I can tell, there's no indication at any point prior to 1789 that Hob rocked the boat or was at all out of step with the Powers That Be.

In general, I kind of see Hob as always just this side of the "wrong side of history" and I personally find it more interesting when that's where we find him. And not in a grand sense but in a "middle of the road" sense of just going along with the day to day accepted levels of harm and evil caused by societal momentum. Generally speaking, only a very small percentage of the population takes active part in moving the needle towards good at any given time on a variety causes, and I tend to see Hob is generally speaking outside of all those minorities of do-gooders, except when it comes to taking care of his immediate friends and family. Which is a pretty average place to be.

Indeed, when it comes to the Wat Tyler rebellion, it's my personal headcanon that Hob was more likely on the side of the soldiers putting DOWN the rebellion on behalf of the local lords, and unlikely to have been interested in or part of the cause of greater equality in England. The fact he's a soldier drinking with his mates openly in a tavern when people around him are talking about Wat Tyler and he's blithely ignoring the discussion is where I get that sense.

Indeed, I believe (though I don't know where to cite it, even in the English Civil Wars, Hob was canonically on the side of the monarchy. So jot that down as Hob being pro-monarchy.

While, yes, I believe post 1789 he learned to be less of a piece of shit about taking active part if horrific industrial-level cruelty, I don't see evidence he became a superhero after that. The one bit of "on the page"altruism we see from him is him flipping a coin to Lushing Lou and telling an obvious alcoholic to go get a drink so she stops pestering his friend by offering herself to him as a prostitute, something Hob seems entirely comfortable with.

In 1989 when Hob gets out of his sleek convertible, dressed like a stock trader, he uses the Financial Times to shield himself from the rain, a periodical that apparently was just lying around in his car. As tempting as it would be to say it's to somehow show off to Dream, he has no reason to believe Dream would come back to his car so more likely, it's just something for himself.

All of these put together show me on the page that Hob stayed pretty fixated on making money even after deciding and coming to regret being part of the "shipping business".

And to be clear, we don't actually know when Hob quit the shipping business. Personally, I like to think he did it right after Dream asked, but that's a romantic take and deliberately so. Hob having the opinion by 1889 that slavery is wrong is not necessarily a progressive take by then. Regardless, even if in 1789 he learned it was wrong, that still puts him just slightly ahead of the curve, philosophically speaking.

If we pull in comic canon we do know Hob was ahead of the curve on feminism by 1912 in Hob's Leviathan but again, women would get the right to vote by 1918/1928 in England after the issue had been discussed for at least a century (keep in mind, male Catholics couldn't vote in England until the early 1800s) so again this puts him as palatable to modern readers but not necessary terribly ahead of the curve.

Now, let me also be clear, where Hob is at in 2022 is anyone's guess. Personally I think Dream not showing up in 1989 was a second wakeup call for Hob. If he'd drifted back towards selfish hedonism by 1989, as his whole vibe suggests, he might very well have looked in the mirror and thought, "What if this is why my stranger stayed away?"

We know he becomes a teacher. That probably would go a long way towards changing his politics. We know he's a history teacher, so now he's got the long view. He's spending time in academia, which tends to lean left. My point is, Hob in 2022 is anyone guess and I think there's a lot of evidence and word of god evidence that he's become a Good Person by then, but I also think it's the 1989 meeting that jumpstarted him being Good and not just Nice. Because I do think Hob throughout all these periods of being morally a bastard was always good to the people close to him in his life. I think he was a good friend and a good husband and would have been a good friend to Dream had he allowed it. And that's what I enjoy most, that he could be both of those things, Nice and Not Good.

Hob as non-religious

I admit, this one is very near and dear to my heart for personal reasons of identifying as an atheist when it comes to Christianity and being a lifelong skeptic of Catholicism for the brief time I was technically a member of that organization (all of which while I was a minor). To be clear there is just as much evidence to say Hob is any number of religious alignments as there is that he has none. It's a totally personal choice by any author, I'm just outlining my evidence for why I write him as effectively an atheist.

The Black Death is considered the period that broke the spine of the Catholic church as a monolith in Europe. All the good priests who did their duty taking care of people and giving last rites died leaving only the ones who fled or were young, with tons of money given to the church because of all the rampant death.

Hob would have been born into an era that was particularly rife with both fanaticism and anti-church sentiment. There was a lot of evidence abounding that being a good Christian just got you killed.

Given Hob is a soldier drinking with his mates 1389, I don't see much evidence of him being particularly devout there. No less so in 1489, by the way. Not saying there's evidence against it, just that there's no evidence for it and indeed, societally there's justification for him to not be devout given the century he was born.

1589 I'd say we've got some evidence Hob isn't devout: he seems unperturbed by King Henry's ransacking of the monasteries. Politically speaking, if Hob is a New Man, he might have even benefited from that ransacking personally. In my personal view, Hob is an opportunist and most likely converted to Church of England at the earliest possible opportunity to curry favor with the Powers that Be. I don't personally see him as someone who would bother pretending to be Protestant while continuing to practice Catholicism, because:

Why would Hob bother to be faithful at all? He can't die. The #1 reason to be devout is to avoid Hell or get into Heaven. Hob has clearly chosen the secular world as the only Heaven he cares about. He says that his current life is what, "He once thought Heaven would be like" and it's a very secular vision of good food and safe streets. He does not appear to be pining at all for any spiritual version of Heaven and indeed, speaks of Heaven as a dream only in the past tense.

Personally, by 1689, I think Hob has plenty of reasons to hate God after what he's suffered and the fact he's still not interested in dying to me seems a pretty strong indication that he does not hold romantic views of the afterlife.

Finally, for 1789 to the present, there was absolutely a class of gentleman who were progress minded, obsessed with technology and the Age of Reason. Many American Founding Fathers were self-proclaimed deists, basically a safe form of atheism that said eh, yes God exists and is out there and we owe him some deference, but he doesn't impact day to day life and we can safely ignore him most of the time. Personally, and this is pure headcanon, I put Hob in that group cheerfully ignoring religion and never looking back because he's more interested in the new technologies of the day and not the crusty old church.

We also know, canonically, that at least in 1789, Hob does not consider himself Jewish.

And of course, we can't forget: Hob has evidence that the Christian cosmology is wrong, somehow, given his stranger and his own immortality.

Frankly, given that Hob appears on the page to be a hedonist with no fear of dying, it's interesting to speculate on what his moral boundaries would be at all coming from a world where Heaven and Hell were the primary means of moral social control. It is possible to speculate that Hob could have gone completely off the rails as far as worrying about his soul for a bit there, other than thinking he's already sold it, which could go either way as far as trying to redeem himself but again, he speaks casually of being a soldier and a bandit, so it doesn't sound like if he worried about his soul being sold already, he thought there was anything that could be done to redeem it.

#the sandman #sandman meta #hob gadling #just a collection of some headcanons I have #sometimes I use these in fic #sometimes i don't! #just stuff to think about

[akampana]

Continuation of this ask

Bedivere x Arturia - Ship it

What made you ship it?

TBH I was one of those few people who shipped it based on that like 2 second scene at the end of FSN. The Camelot Singularity just reinforced it. A lot came from the original Arthurian legend as well. Bedivere is similarly insanely loyal as he is in the game, and like in Fate lore, he’s been with Arthur longer than most.

What are your favorite things about the ship?

He journeyed so far for so long just to see her smile OH MY GOD BRB IM SOBBING HOLY CRAP CAN YOU JUST IMAGINE—

I’m a sucker for intensely loyal knights and I will always be. ALWAYS.

THE ANGST POTENTIALLLLLL but also THE FLUFF POTENTIALLLL

This man loved his king so bloody intensely. So strongly that his desire to see her survived the test of time. To be loved so much, so unconditionally for a thousand and a half years? Gods, that’s just too much, man. ;-;

And I absolutely adore how much it means to him to remain her knight, even if he tends to be insecure about the limb that he lacks, and how he believes he is nothing special in comparison with everyone else. I love that Arturia recognizes his strength and his worth, even if he himself can’t see it.

THE ENTIRE CONFRONTATION IN THE THRONE ROOM LET ME TELL YOU I WAS CRYING SOOOOO HARD THROUGHOUT THAT IK NIT EVEN KIDDING

THIS, the MINDBREAK Arturia goes through when she tries to remember

Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?

I think that THIS SHIP NEEDS MORE LOVE AND I REALLY OUGHT TO CONTRIBUTE

All the other answers below cut!

Irisviel x Arturia - Ship It

What made you ship it?

I think I was bound to the moment I watched Fate Zero. When I was younger it was overshadowed by the feels Diarturia brought and not to mention Kiritsugu and Iri but this ship is damn good on its own.

What sold it though, is the argument she and Kiritsugu have in Episode 16, right after the last Saber and Lancer fight. Irisviel, who we all know loves her husband so much, forced Kiritsugu to answer Saber. That’s just how important Arturia was to her.

What are your favorite things about the ship?

I think they both found in each other something they themselves lack. It’s actually kind of funny. Arturia is human, and yet she’s so heavily consumed by her ideals that she doesn’t act like one. Irisviel, on the other hand, is not human, and yet everything that she does and wants to do is exactly that.

Throughout the anime, Being with Iri puts Saber into such mundane, ordinary situations that it teaches her to live. The suits, the escorting, being a passenger instead of a driver, appreciating the water by the seashore, etc. It's like the woman wants to leave her with some appreciation for the world, especially when she herself doesn’t have all that much time left.

On Irisviel’s part, I think she found in Saber the companionship she would have wanted from Kiritsugu during the last few days she remained on the Earth. Arturia had been the perfect knight in shining armor, taking Irisviel around to see the world as much as they could amidst a war. If they’d just had more time, I have no doubt Arturia would have taken Irisviel even more places, you know?

It makes me sad :( but in a good way.

Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?

I’m pretty sure Irisviel would wear the pants in this relationship ya know what I mean? Hahaha

Much as I love this ship, I think that it becomes all the more valuable because of how it ended. To each other, they were this brief, fleeting feeling of happiness. A love that was so short and yet so strong.

Shirou x Arturia - Don't Ship it

Hooooooo boi. Hear me out, mkay ? But this is just my personal opinion so pls no hate

Why don't you ship it?

I’m gonna start out by saying I don’t think I need to, tbh. Hahaha there’s enough content for this ship being fed to us, so my liking it or not is immaterial. But the reason is well...I watched FSN and Shirou x Saber was...not the best thing about it (the best thing about it was the soundtrack omg iconic) Shirou comes off as a bit of a misogynist, and kind of immature, and the whole time it’s like he doesn’t really listen to Arturia at all. Plus, it’s kind of like he just likes her looks at times. The final deciding factor was the date scene. That was just unbearable.

But then I go online and I see all this good stuff about them. And my friend ships them cause they’re canon, right? So, I’m like okay, what if I judged too quickly, let’s play the VN...and I did. And I still didn’t like him with Saber at all. So, I played the next route, watched the next anime, trying to redeem 1st route Shirou as much as I could but it just....didn’t happen. I think I can safely say I tried to like them. I really did. But no.

What would have made you like it?

Removing the misogyny and the immaturity and letting him listen to her. Like he should have.

At no point in their interactions did it feel like they were standing on equal ground, ever. Either he was speaking over her or the opposite. So less of that and a lot more respect.

And when you compare this relationship to what he has with like with his other two love interests, it makes this ship fall completely flat. It’s pretty...bland and honestly kind of shallow. It’s like the story just tells you they’re in love but there’s no answer to why they’re in love. Make him fall in love with her for her without necessarily forcing his need to save everyone on her.

Despite not shipping it, do you have anything positive to say about it?

I may not like how they got there, but in the end Arturia was able to pass peacefully.

I acknowledge that Shirou was important and made a change in her life.

That ending scene where they meet after so long, NGL is pretty sweet.

A lot of my headcanons happen post-Shirou, so there’s also that.

Archer x Rin -Ship it

What made you ship it?

Tsundere x Cynic has gotta be one of the best dynamics out there.

What are your favorite things about the ship?

His true identity. The fact that she dragged him all the way across space and time to return as her Servant, that’s just bloody fate at work.

The fact that he keeps acknowledging she’s a strong Master despite his later conduct in UBW.

Archer is ridiculously crass and Rin is easily riled up. In the Fifth Holy Grail War, they had the best Master-Servant relationship period. They have this explosive chemistry that just works so well.

When he smiles at her at the end of the route, and you just know that Tohsaka’s gonna be stubborn enough to make sure Shirou doesn’t end up going down the exact same path.

I think it’s sweet that he ends up going along with her whims because he secretly likes housework.

THE PRINCESS CARRY/ CATCH. MAN OH MAN.

Unlike the previous ship mentioned here, these two actually stand on equal ground with each other.

Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?

I don't think it's exactly an unpopular opinion, but I think they really ought to have more official content y'know? Rin is important in every route, and Archer's the actual climax of UBW and also entirely significant across three routes.

Medusa x Sakura - Don't ship it

Why don't you ship it?

Because while journeying through the routes, I always saw Rider as more of a best friend/sort of motherly figure to Sakura.

Or that Rider fulfilled the kind of relationship that she wanted to have with Rin, while Sakura unknowingly filled the void Medusa's sisters left in her life. I thought she was more of a guardian angel really, not a romantic interest. Kind of like how Heracles was to Illya.

What would have made you like it?

If I could maybe forget about the threesome with Shirou and the implied romantic feelings Rider has for him in Ataraxia that would be great.

Despite not shipping it, do you have anything positive to say about it?

Sakura deserves all the happiness in the world and I really do believe that Rider could fulfill that.

This ship DEFINITELY DEFINITELYYYYYY NEEDS MORE CONTENT

Diarmuid x Cú - Ship it

What made you ship it?

oooh this probably sounds surprising since based on my content you'd think, no i dont ship this BUT I DOOOOOOO (i just happen to hc them as bros more often)

Honestly what did make me ship it is the parallels.

What are your favorite things about the ship?

IMO They have the biggest potential for hurt/comfort amongst all the ships mentioned here.

They can help each other get through their trauma. Their whole relationship would be extremely healing and supportive.

I love that Diarmuid seems to have idolized Cú Chulainn at some point and honestly who wouldn't be honored to stand beside him, no?

They could be up to the funniest shenanigans because Cú is chaos and Diarmuid would absolutely be an enabler because when he isn't angst-ing he's super damn chill.

Bros being bros hahahah...unless?

Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?

Not really. Maybe that I think Lancer Diar and Cascu would get along better and Saber Diar and Lancer Cu would also get along better but honestly any form is good this ship is good

#akampana asks #bedivere #arturia pendragon #artoria pendragon #irisviel von einzbern #emiya Shirou #archer #rin #tohsaka rin #Medusa #sakura #sakura matou #diarmuid ua duibhne #cu chulainn #long post