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wellthatwasaletdown · 6 years

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Do you think the 1D fandom got distorted in a way by alot of adults participating who aren't quite secure enough in themselves to be ok with being involved with a boyband? So they are constantly looking to dress everything up as more serious than it is? And taking the trash talk and flippancy of young teens waay more srsly than its meant? I think thats what started alot of this 'Harry is woke' nonsense and it happened with Louis too. Their fans are fundamentally uncomfortable with themselves, hence the constant need for drama (edit sorry I should say *some*). And alot of what the younger fans carry on with, like with Harry that he's this deep musical prodigy (lmao) started on here with older fans trying to justify their interest to themselves, in bled over to the younger fans and obv HSHQ ran with it to great comic effect. But I do think Larry drew in such a large number of adults to HLs fandoms that in itself created a lot of the constant drama in those fandoms. Not the teens. In the beginning the boys were young and the fans were their age and it was like they understood eo. And that alot of the trashtalk etc is just teenage hotair. Then the fandom spread out demographically (younger and older) and suddenly its a lot harder to satisfy all bases (ie 'family show' vs sex expressive). I think alot of teens know and are aware that fandom is for fun and a space to be ott and act like some melodramatic possesive lover. Its a safe nonsense space to get that out of And a lot of drama here like Harries Harries trying to make out he soo deep (that started before HS1) or Louies crying because the industry wont acknowledge their mutli platform 24/7 streams as proof of widespread appeal, is caused by fans own insecurity. Harries can't just enjoy him for the frothy pop act he is and so media Harries act out like midlife crisiss victims talking nonsense and embarassing themselves and Louies belie the fact that they believe he's so extremely talented every focus so hard on how much kudos other people and the industry are giving him. My favourite artist is Ben Howard. He's just released music that I think is stunningly beautiful but it has like 63k views. He did 1 radio interview I know of and thats it. Do I care? Nope I'm too busy being thrilled and listening to Agatha's song on repeat to worry bout what other people are missing out on. He's more talented than Sheeran by a magnitude of about 1m imo but I'm not going to stress about other ppl other people having poor taste :p. Anyway I say all this as a fan who came to 1D as an adult. Its ok to like a boyband. 1D had something really special and won hearts all round. It doesn't mean we all have to pretend they're these complex musical icons. Sometimes light is perfect. I really think alot of Harrys most obnoxious press isn't on his orders, its adults (esp men) trying to excuse themselves for having weird dreams about him in 2013 lol. Sorry if this is a bit meta for here.

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dogsliampaynedoesntinstagram · 6 years

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You're so honest and clear so let me ask you this? What do you genuinely think about Liam saying he doesn't vote or get involved in politics cause he feels 16 about it? Do you think there is a chance that might change?

Thanks anon. I held onto this a long time, because I’m trying to think about silence and speech and what it means to expect political speech from people. I thought this made a good follow-on from the ask from yesterday about Louis praising Stormzy’s performance.

At 16, Liam knew nothing about politics. At that age, like a lot of kids, he had no access to a political view of the world. As he says in the Attitude interview, his parents didn’t talk about how they voted (which is a particular sort of class and political culture. Although the odds are they voted Labour). If he hadn’t gone through on X-factor, if he’d worked in a factory or become a firefighter he might have learned. He might have joined a union. He might have got into conversation with his friends in the pub and developed his analysis with his peers.

He was never going to have any chance to do any of that in One Direction. And he didn’t have a starting point. It’s easy enough to learn things if you have a framework to hook them on, but if you have to build the base it’s much harder.

He was around political people. Niall, Lou T, Ben Winston and Mark Jarvis all have very defined world views. But how was he to pick between them? I know tumblr is very fond of the idea that everyone should educate themselves (and there are times when that's an impotant and apprpriate response), but conversation and experience are such important ways to learn - and a lot of people just aren’t going to learn about the world if those two ways are taken awy from them.

I don’t think there’s any shame in any of that. I don’t think there’s any shame in coming from the background he did. I don’t think there’s any shame in struggling to make sense of politics from the strange bubble that is One Direction.

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I have two more political points to make - partly to explain why I think there’s no shame and partly to tease out the implications of their being no shame.

Shaming people for what they don’t know, or for not having participated in politics before is a terrible political strategy (as well as often being not cool for a number of other reasons). Lets talk US electoral politics (not my political home turf by any means, but something that lots of people know something about) - everything you’ve been told about who voted how during the election is wrong. 52% of white women didn’t vote for Trump - 52% of white women who voted, voted for Trump - somewhere between 30% and 40% of white women didn’t vote at all. Who knows why they are alienated from politics (most reasons people are alienated from politics are totally valid), but from a strategy point of view the last thing you want to do is make those people feel bad. You want to give them the tools they need so they will vote next time.

And here’s the thing (and I say this a lot about 1D) - Liam isn’t going to see anything that is said about his politics on tumblr. The people who might see it are various people who are like him - who are confused and uncertain and don’t (for perfectly valid reasons) don’t understand politics. If you talk about him in disparaging terms you are dismissing the possibility of reaching them. And that does real harm.

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Then there’s the other bit I’m trying to untangle - what are the implications of demanding political speech from celebrities? There is this idea that everyone must speak on everything important and to stay silent is some sort of statement. Usually I hate this (in fact this idea has lead me to near silence on several social media platforms) - performative opinions are not useful politically and they don’t help change the world. They’re not agitating, educating or organising. Pressure on celebrities (and in fact on everyone) to speak ends up hiding those who have done the work, who have something to say, as much more bland messages from people who don’t really know what they’re talking about will crowd out the specificity of people who know where they stand.

And yet, if you looked at this tumblr on 7-9 June 2017 (because of timezones) - you would get a very different picture. You would read me very much having expectations that 1D speak about the British election and judging them for their silence (with partial credit for Harry making it clear that you should vote Labour by the enthusiasm that he talked about voting).

In the aftermath of my very strong feelings about the election, I tried to figure out if I was a hypocrite. Was there something special about the UK election that meant that suddenly it was OK to judge people for not speaking out? I mean obviously there was a lot special about the UK election last year, but everything that has any political meaning is special.

I am probably a bit of a hypocrite - but more importantly I think is how things are framed. I’m old fashioned and I think there’s a huge difference between ‘I want One Direction to be the sort of people who will say ‘vote Labour’ when Labour is running on a platform of socialism’ and ‘One Direction should say vote Labour and I’m going to tell them so.’ But of course social media has collapsed the distance between wanting a celebrity to do something and pressuring a celebrity to do something.

I think it’s ridiculous to want a 24 year old who has no political world view to make political statements. Sometimes you’ll get quite charming ideas about Jefferson and transgender troops, but you’re just as likely to get nonsense. What you might want is that that 24 year old get together with his most on to it friends, harnessed his good anti-bullying instincts and learned about the world.

And that’s the social media celebrity conundrum. Because what I wanted on election day was for members of 1D to be people who wanted to make political statements. But because there’s no fourth wall, there’s no way to express that desire that isn’t in some way pressure on the people they actually are to make political statements.

#To answer your other question #of course it might change some day #I think Trump might be quite politicisnig for Liam #and we've seen that already with the the transgender troops tweet #Liam understands bullying #and that's actually a really good starting point for him develop his analysis of politcs #Anonymous #how to be a fan in a social media age without pressuring people to be a certain way #is the great conundrum #I welcome any suggestions

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the-counter-narrative · 7 years

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Do you never get tired though? All this following Larries around and reblogging everything they do or say? I mean I agree respect for performers should be had but it doesn't mean you need to blindly believe everything they say/do without question, or find things shady. This group has been the shadiest thing since its own inception. All fans get manipulated. Nobody is special, 1D wanted your attention and cash, and still do. 1D and team are probably laughing at Anti's as much as at Larries.

Do Larries get tired of waiting for their fantasy to come true? it must be exhausting and sad staring at those slomo 2012 GIFS all the time.

Where do Larries get that we are blindly believing? I know our position involves nuance and shades of gray but let me explain it for you one more time.

We don’t know what goes on “off stage” in Harry, Louis, Liam, Niall and Zayn’s lives. So, instead of trying to interpret secret signs and tea leaves, and screaming everywhere on the internet that we believe our fantasy about their lives is REAL. And concocting preposterous conspiracy theories to explain the massive gaps between their lives, and our fantasy, we respect what they say about their lives. It’s really as simple as that at the core.

We also don’t buy into the tinhat mindset that there is some almighty force called PR that can manipulate everything and anything in the entire private life of a celebrity because it just isn’t that way. A PR contract clause cannot require a man to fake a baby for years on end, or even to go on a date with another celebrity if he or she doesn’t want to. YES - we know that there is pressure in the industry for gay men to stay closeted but that still doesn’t make it legal for a contract to require the shenanigans that the Larrie’s theory requires.

From the last bit in your ask, I infer that you think that 1DHQ has contempt for the fans. No doubt they want us to keep buying their stuff. I honestly don’t feel particularly manipulated though. Or at least not in a way that isn’t completely voluntary. Fandom is voluntary, and when it’s time to move on, people do. If I felt that they had actual contempt for me, I’d be out of here. (Now, would they please offer adult sized T-shirts in larger sizes thank you.)

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