#Adrien doesn't deserve any of this shit | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

zoe-oneesama · 1 year

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So what are your thoughts (and salt) on your research re-watch on Queen Wasp?

This episode is annoying because it tries to play both sides - it is very much NOT a redemption arc episode but at the same time tries to make you feel sorry for Chloe after she fucks shit up, which has tricked some into believing this actually WAS part of Chloe's redemption arc.

As @hypexion laid out in a full essay, there never was a Chloe redemption arc because Chloe never thought she did anything wrong and never thought she had to change. In "Queen Wasp", she refuses to return the Miraculous on the grounds "finders keepers, losers weepers", deliberately causes a crisis in order to try and FAIL to save the day just to show off, and when confronted with her deeds only has this to say:

See, I didn't pull Scarlet Lady's complete disregard for human life out of my ass, it was canon all along! 😈

"Who cares"?! "Who CARES"?! Putting aside that "WE" did not save them, Ladybug and Chat Noir saved them from YOU, I'm pretty sure the people's who's LIVES you endangered "cares"!

Thing is, if you just watch this episode and put the entire idea of "redemption" or "hero Chloe" out of your mind, this is 3/4ths of a good episode. Pretty fun, actually, with Chloe just...being Chloe. And getting to hit Chloe in the face with a trash can ❤️.

So what's with all the audience emotional manipulation at the end?

Why is Chat Noir making soft face and using soft voice at Chloe at the end, commiserating that she STOLE a Miraculous (because once she decided not to return it when asked, yes, that's theft at that point), crashed a train, and ran away from the consequences just to ImPrEsS hEr MoThEr? Guess that makes it alright then, right Adrien? 🙃

(If it was just meant to be an Adrien Character Moment, they would've had Ladybug counter him by point out that her motivation doesn't make what she did okay, but instead they have Ladybug ALSO commiserate with Chloe)

As a character beat, I get that Adrien is channeling his daddy issues through Chloe's mommy issues, but I mean for the audience: why are they having Ladybug admit to "making mistakes" and Chat Noir comfort Chloe when SHE MESSED UP THIS BADLY except to manipulate the viewer into feeling sorry for her?! Her mother didn't ASK her to do any of those things, she did them all on her own, so why are the heroes giving her a pass, ie. why are the writers wanting the audience to give Chloe a pass???

No pass! She sucked! And she deserved her classmates ripping on her in "Malediktator", but then the story had the balls to try and make the audience feel bad for Chloe for that too!

Speaking of that, it's really weird that they ended "Queen Wasp" with Ladybug being so soft on Chloe at the end, only for Marinette to turn around at the beginning of "Malediktator" and go back to being really annoyed with her. Especially after she went out of her way to reconcile things between Chloe and Audrey.

Even the way they did it - equating Ladybug accidentally dropping the Miraculous in the middle of the battle and then relying on the Miraculous Cure to return the Miraculous to Fu, (something she'd have no reason to believe shouldn't happen), to Chloe deliberately causing a disaster in order to fail to impress her mom and refusing to return the Miraculous that she Was Not Given? Those are not the same! An honest error that Ladybug fully intended to rectify vs. Chloe disregarding other's safety and the right and wrong of keeping something that never belonged to her are not on equal footing.

Oh and then there's this gem:

Giving back an item that never belonged to you to the rightful owner isn't "exceptional", it's basic human decency. Good Lord Chloe is not "exceptional" for finally adhering to the code of conduct the rest of us learned in Kindergarden.

All this pushing the viewer to feel some type of way and it's all for nothing. Feeling sorry for Chloe just leads Ladybug to giving her another chance in "Malediktator", giving Chloe entitlement to the Bee Miraculous, facing the issues of the enemy knowing her identity in "Miraculer", having to flat out retract Chloe's access to the Bee Miraculous which Chloe responds to with a full on tantrum in "Miracle Queen", leading to Fu giving Guardianship over to Ladybug.

Woooow, real glad we were told over and over again by the narrative to go easy on Chloe, sHe JuSt NeEdS a GoOd InFluEnCe and a SeCoNd ChAnce. That sure ended well for everyone.

Also this is just me being a nitpicky asshole, but if Chloe didn't out herself right in front of everyone (ie. GABRIEL), the Hawkmoth era of the series would've been over. After Style Queen failed, Gabriel had completely given up since his "Masterpiece" failed. If Chloe hadn't revealed herself, Gabriel wouldn't have been inspired to akumatize a Miraculous Holder and might've gone into retirement long enough to return the Miraculous in secret or reveal Emilie to the public in search of other methods before he could've been "inspired" by something else.

The villain defeated by lack of motivation, lmao.

(Also also obviously this could've been doubly avoided by Ladybug not losing the Bee Miraculous or taking the Bee Miraculous out in the first place, but we could've had Anti-Hero Bee Chloe with an actual secret identity paired with a new antagonist to go into a new era of Miraculous, so I would've considered that a win)

MY main gripe with the three Chloe centric episodes "Style Queen", "Queen Wasp", and "Malediktator" is all the pointless, blatant audience manipulation. They went so far out their way to make the audience side with Chloe against Ladybug and feel bad for her only to turn around and call us stupid for doing so. I want my time back and I never even believed in the Redemption Arc. I can't imagine how much worse it was for someone who actually believed what they were selling.

And obviously it was terrible for the thing that brought Chloe and Audrey together is how they're horrible people who torment the working class, but maybe we should've taken that as a sign as to where this was going. Way to immediately resolve Chloe's mommy issues as soon as they were brought up.

Wait...is that why they made the problem in "Malediktator" Chloe's usefulness?

#damn these episodes and their buzzwords!#'exceptional' 'useless'#try 'menace to society' and defend that!#queen wasp salt #chloe salt #writing salt #adrien salt #just a pinch just a sprinkle #my opinion #just to save myself I am writing Audrey with like 5% of a heart

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nobodyfamousposts · 19 hours

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Do you have any Gabriel salt fics? I sometimes feel like you salt more on Adrien than him

Of course I salt on Adrien. It's like adding a bit of salt to a bland dish to give it flavor because it's still worth the time and effort even if you don't particularly like it otherwise.

Gabriel is just shit. There's no point trying to add salt to make it appetizing. I've written entire essays on how much of an idiot he is. I expect nothing from this character.

But if you want to know my stories that make fun of Gabriel or call out his stupidity or horribleness...

Gabriel's Lament - where Gabriel makes the Wish and it doesn't go well for him. Plagg manages to take some revenge, however little he can get.

Take Out The Trash - Dolls AU where Gabriel tries to throw Littlebug away and she does not take kindly to this.

My-Crack-Ulous: The Movie Trailer - Just crack that pokes fun at the setup and Gabriel in general.

Papa's Day - Another Dolls AU where Gabriel sucks as a Dad and Adrien realizes he's a better one.

My-Crack-Ulous: Akumaid - More crack and Gabriel suffers.

Dolls at Play - More Dolls and more callout specifically at Gabriel.

Guardian Assistant Kevin - Where Villain Assistant Kevin takes Marinette as a client and calls out a lot of things including Hawk Moth.

Banned Movie List - More Dolls where they watch movies and get ideas.

Akuma-ed - More Dolls where Gabriel tries to akumatize the Dolls and it does not work out for him.

Oneshot where Gabriel messes with human-turned-Chaton and Adrien does NOT approve

The Hero of Paris - a one shot pointing out how stupid it was for Gabriel to transform on a TRAIN.

...

So yeah, a number of them are Dolls AU, but they really don't like him and he deserves it.

I've also got Gabriel essays and a tag I've often used literally called "Gabriel Is An Idiot"/"Hawk Moth Is An Idiot", but not sure if you want those.

#fic recs #my fics #gabriel salt #gabriel is an idiot #hawk moth is an idiot

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theerurishipper · 6 months

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https://www.tumblr.com/jacquesthepigeon/731353272698486784/you-know-it-must-be-said-as-someone-whos-only?source=share

Of course this is said from someone who has never seen the show. God forbid folks favorite character, is THE SECOND MAIN CHARACTER AND IN THE TITLE OF THE SHOW.

God forbid abuse survivors find Adrichat’s story relatable and react negatively to people who salt on him for, checks notes, being a rich white boy? Because being rich and white protects you from abuse lol okay

Someone go tell Kesha that the horrific abuse she endured for years doesn’t count because she’s rich and white.

Someone go tell Britney Spears and Amanda Bynes that they deserve their conservatorships because they’re too volitile and emotional and need someone else to control their entire lives. Also they’re rich and white so they should be thankful for their privilege.

Also as a fandom veteran, I’m also baffled that this anon says they’ve never seen fandom go this feral over a white boy so I guess the whole Superwholock thing doesn’t exist in this person’s universe. I’m getting war flashbacks…

I really hope this doesn't come off as rude, but I just have a small request for any anons in the future: if y'all want me to comment on someone else's post, please send it in a separate ask. I just don't want to post someone else's post and start an argument or something.

That being said, I do agree. My detailed thoughts under the cut.

"Adrien stans are white people who get unhinged over a white boy," say the Marinette stans and Marinette stan observers, not realizing that they espouse disgusting abuse apologism on a daily basis and victim blame a character who is a victim of abuse for being traumatized all because he made a few decisions that weren't about Marinette and her well-being alone.

This is ridiculous on so many levels. First the assumption that all Adrien stans are white people. Second, the assumption that we must be Adrien stans because he's a white boy and we don't care about POC characters as much as we do the white ones. Which is actually quite insulting to me.

Maybe these people should actually read what Adrien stans have to say. Maybe they should actually understand why we love Adrien so much. Maybe they should understand why we get so heated over him.

Know what? I'll tell you why. It's because Adrien is despite the writers' best efforts to undermine him an interesting and likeable character. He is a canonical abuse victim, and he struggles with his self-worth and his identity, which is a relatable story to many people. He's an entertaining and interesting character. He's the deuteragonist of the damn show. People are bound to love him. There's more to him than being a white boy and it's very insulting to imply that people obsess over him because he's white or because his fans are white.

And about how Adrien stans get "unhinged" about Adrien and not about other characters... we're literally Adrien stans. Which means Adrien is our favorite character. Naturally, we're going to talk more about him. This is basic common sense. I don't understand the problem here with liking Adrien more than other characters. Are we not allowed to have faves anymore?

And you know why Adrien stans get "unhinged" over him? Because the show treats him badly! Why shouldn't we get mad that a character whom we love is being treated poorly by the writers? Why can't we get heated about that? Marinette stans get heated about their fave being victimized by the narrative all the time, so why is it a crime if Adrien stans get upset if Adrien gets the same treatment? Adrien's story in the show ended with him being reduced to an object and a prop for his girlfriend so that she could side with his abuser and start controlling him instead. Why can't we get angry at that?

Marinette stans will talk about how both Adrien and Marinette are written badly but only Marinette gets criticized and how that's racist and shit, and will ignore the fact that our criticism has nothing to do with race and everything to do with Marinette siding with Gabriel to lie to an abuse victim, and how the show frames this as correct. We criticize Marinette because she's making an awful mistake and doing bad things! This is like, the worst strawman I have ever seen. At some point, it really feels like they are being willfully ignorant.

And about how Adrien stans treat other characters, riddle me this. Who has a proper tag dedicated to bashing them on AO3? Who was the character who was salted on so much when Syren aired? Who was the character being raked over the coals when Chameleon aired? Who was the character who was salted on in Season 4 for breaking a damn fucking chimney? Who was the character whose struggles in Season 4 were overlooked by Marinette stans who criticized him for "being entitled to Ladybug?" Who was the character who was relentlessly salted on whenever he did anything that didn't completely attend to Marinette's needs? Who is the character who was labelled a "sexual harasser?" Who is the character on whom these "fans" rain down their victim blaming and abuse apologia? Who is the character who has the longest history of being salted and bashed by the Marinette stans?

And I will laugh at the audacity of Marinette stans to argue in favor of POC characters and blame Adrien stans for "obsessing over a white boy while not giving the same treatment to characters of color" while their legacy includes salting Alya for not being Marinette's perfect emotional support BFF. Who has their own salt tag apart from Adrien on AO3? Alya does. It's laughable to me that Marinette stans harp on about how Adrien stans prefer the white boy over the POC characters when they spent the better part of the last few years bashing Alya and even devolved into outright racism against her. To say nothing of how they treated Kagami after Frozer dropped.

And these people accuse Adrien stans of showing preferential treatment to white characters? Marinette stans have no leg to stand on when it comes to calling out other people's treatment of POC characters. And I'm not saying that the anon or OP of the post are racist or that they personally contributed to this. But if they are going to make sweeping statements about Adrien stans accusing all of us of going unhinged over a white boy and treating POC characters unfairly, they should maybe take a look inwards at their own community.

Marinette stans have spent years bashing every other character for the smallest perceived slight. Marinette stans created a whole new genre of Miraculous fanfiction dedicated to propping up Marinette like their personal goddess and punishing other characters for not being her devoted slaves. Marinette stans have contributed greatly to the racism in this fandom. Look at all this and tell me: who really seems unhinged here?

So yeah. Ice cold take imo. Also, obligatory disclaimer: Not all Marinette stans are like this! Most of them are nice and sweet, but there are also plenty of bad apples who have been responsible for a lot of toxicity in this fandom.

Thank you for your ask!

#MLB #Adrien Agreste #Chat Noir #Adrien Sugar #Marinette Salt #ML Salt #ML Fandom Salt #ML Writing Salt #ML Writers Salt #Meta #My meta #Asks #Ladybug Salt #Seriously Marinette stans do not look at this post

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lucysarah-c · 1 month

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I LOVED YOUR DADVI FANFIC OH MY GODDDD 💜💜❤️

AHHH THANK YOUUUUU. I am so happy you liked it!!! 😭😭😭

I was worried about making Levi too strict as a father but I truly believe he would be rather strict! But, setting that aside.

I believe it is rather cute how after the rumbling the world slowly went back to normal and Levi lives in one of those "respectable family neighbours" since in the manga Levi is in a wheelchair with a big clock behind that looks like the big ben. I don't know why I concluded "he's living in a country similar to England" lol and now his kid grows in one of those country sides, classic pretty English houses. I think it's cute how obvious it is that Adrien (his son) has a very normal life, he has a big house with front and backyards to run and play, his own room with his record player, goes to school, and has pets.

I think the pets were a rather "family" addition, Levi seems to like animals a lot so he owns a dog and a cat is so freaking cute to me. For me, they have a border collie 🤣 and a very fluffy fat tuxedo cat. Like Levi really settle down and said "whatever shit is going on, it's not my responsibility any longer. I did my part and now I want to give my family the life we deserve"... Doesn't help that Adrien is a bit of a reckless but 🤣 "it's a phase" lol

In the end, Adrien was probably between 3-5 years all when the whole rumbling happened. I think Levi would get a bittersweet taste when Adrien casually mentions that he doesn't remember paradise any longer, or the walls, or the war at all. His kid grew up without walls surrounding him. I like to think that Gabi and Falcon think Adrien is "immature" for his age or "spoiled" (but with love of course) but they know that Adrien is part of the first generation that grew without a war, that simply makes his childhood last longer.

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princess-of-the-corner · 5 months

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One of the things I find frustrating about ML is that besides the protagonist-centered morality, they keep insisting on this good person bad person binary, which not only just kills any nuance that the younger target audience could (and honestly should) learn about (because people are complicated and not everything is black and white) but also runs on the idea that intent is all that matters like, Gabriel may have been a terrorist whose wish literally killed everyone and Marinette may be gaslighting the entirity of Paris and perpetuates abuse cycles (not just Adrien's but Chloé's too) but they did it Out of Love and for "good" reasons so the writers say they're heroes. Felix is forgiven for tricking Ladybug and trading all the miraculouses to the main terrorist, snappping people out of existence, and kidnapping Kagami (probably among other things, do they ever bring up the shit he did in Felix the episode?) because he did it "for them" because he cares oh so much.

Meanwhile, Chloé was a hero and yeah she might have done shit for attention but that doesn't cancel out that she has helped and saved people but the writers keep yelling about how she's not genuinely good because her heroism wasn't for "good" reasons and also "because she caused the akuma" despite the fact that literally the only person capable of causing akumas is whoever has the butterfly, Chloé (and a lot of other people, including Marinette herself!) just makes people feel bad enough (side eyes the actual villains actually making people feel so bad on purpose) that they're vulnerable to manipulation. Whether or not she deserved to be replaced has no place has no bearing on this because she did actually help people y virtue of just having fought alongside the main heroes and not making things worse when she did.

And in S1 Lila was literally just some chick who lied for attention and that's all we knew about her and it was easy to assume she was just lonely because she knows no one and she supposedly just moved to a new country. But everyone wanted her dead or whatever because... she's a liar that doesn't have a "good" reason for lying? She got in the way of Adrienette (as if Marinette was making any progress)? She got akumatized (because of Ladybug publicly shaming her)? What made her "bad"?

Yeah it's.

It's double annoying because they really seem to want to have the gray morality. Whether it be Gabriel and Felix doing bad things for 'good' reasons or Chloé doing 'good' things for 'bad' reasons as they later claim. Or even Season 1-3 Chloé being a 'bad kid' who is learning to be good.

But they always just either use the bad actions to make Chloé's good actions bad in some way(saying her heroism was just for attention. Saying she only cares about Sabrina and Adrien because they're items to her), or sweeping atrocities under the rug because of One Good Thing.

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dysfunctional-family-fight · 9 months

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Round Two

Agreste/Graham de Vanily/Fathom family (Miraculous Ladybug) VS the Ushiromiya family (Umineko When They Cry)

Agreste/Graham de Vanily/Fathom family

Members: Gabriel Agreste, Adrien Agreste, Emilie Agreste-Graham de Vanily, Amelie Graham de Vanily, Colt Fathom, Felix Fathom

Propaganda:

"Holy shit holy shit they’re a mess. Colt is toxic and controlling towards Amelie and Felix, Gabriel is insane, Emilie’s dead, Adrien doesn’t know what’s going on (and honestly neither do we as viewers)."

"BIG SEASON 5 SPOILERS—I was going to write the whole messed up story of this family, but then realized it would be too long. So here is a short list. We have:

Arranged marriage (on mother's side),

Another arranged marriage (now with kids!)

Magical children that are literally mindcontrolled by their parents into submission,

Rich people eugenics cult,

Man going against the wishes of his wife, becoming a supervillain while trying to revive her and then going insane with power

That same man threatening to kill his nephew

The nephew (temporarily) killing him (deserved tbh)

Another timeline where supervillain dad forcing his son to join him literally resulted in apocalypse

Horrific child abuse in general (physical and mental)

Man figures out that by having a magical son he developed a terminal illness and proceeds to ruin his life

Boy discovers he might not be quite human when his dad (who calls him a monster) almost kills him

At some point two children are put in pure white rooms. You know, the ones used for psychological torture

One child suffered so much trauma he almost killed everyone about it except his cousin and his two gfs (it's okay, they got better)

Another child doesn't even know he was brainwashed and that his dad was a supervillain and that his dead mom was in the basement. He is gaslighted into thinking his abusive dad was a hero"

The Ushiromiya family

Members: Kinzo, Krauss, Eva, Rudolf, Rosa, Jessica, George, Battler, Ange, Maria, Natsuhi, Hideyoshi, Asumu, Kyrie

Propaganda:

"PEAK weird family drama. Fighting over the inheritance leads to multiple people dying in gruesome ways" "The whole plot of the game is that they all are so dysfunctional it would make sense for any of them to commit murder" "This family is dysfunctional and abusive on every levels. The parents are fighting for the inheritance, because the elder embezzled money. The grandfather, Kinzo, hides in his room and never shows up. Not unusual, he neglected his family his whole life. Seems that he preferred a mysterious mistress than his family. When he talked to his children, it was to scold them for being incompetents. The atmosphere is oppressive. The children of Kinzo were bully. Krauss bullied Eva, who bullied Rosa. Concerning the next generation: Battler is in conflict with his father because he cheated on his mother. Natsuhi is putting pressure on Jessica for her to become the heir of the family, and is losing contact with her daughter. Eva has deciced what the life of Georges is becoming, and that he will not marry a servant. As for the relationship between Rosa and Maria, this is just the best mother-daughter love-hate relationship ever. And everything ends in blood, for ever and ever." More propaganda here

#polls #agreste extended family #miraculous ladybug #ushiromiya family #umineko no naku koro ni #umineko #round two #miraculous spoilers

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iwasbored777 · 1 year

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I just freakin adore how Marinette managed to stand up for herself more in this season and despite her self-blaming never stopped she knows how to defend herself and knows how to sort things out and make difference what bad and what good things and people are and how her emotions evolved and how she's learning so much and everything I just love how developed her feelings are and how she can control them (not fully but she's trying guys she's still trying to think with her head first and heart second) and how this is both great and sad because a 14-year-old is not supposed to know so much already and IS supposed to spend the next two years collecting stickers and napkins and eat candies and have fun and she should be emotional - seriously us girls know how rough this age was emotionally - but she left me taken aback this season with her emotional struggle and how it's not at all as big as it used to be - she knows to judge both other people and herself when something goes wrong. Like how she takes no shit from Su-Han anymore and how she was mad at Alya and Nino, and how she does blame herself for Strikeback now but she doesn't make herself a victim even though she is she wants to know Adrien better because she doesn't want her feelings to be shallow and how she is (I already mentioned this two times already but it's so goddamn important) Lila's friend in public SHE'S DOING EVERYTHING IN HER POWER GUYS AND NO ONE TAUGHT HER HOW TO DEAL WITH STUFF GUYS NO ONE SHE IS LEARNING AS SHE GOES SHE IS THE ONLY PERSON MAKING THESE DECISIONS AND SHE'S SO GOOD. And my favourite thing about her is that she is always trying so hard to make things better whatever happens it's so amazing I love her so much. She doesn't deserve to be like this so young it's not fair but the way she is carrying it is amazing and honestly everyone who says she's not a good role model for young girls can suck it.

Literally the more I watch and the more I find out about this season I love her more and she literally has the biggest and most complex character development in the show and no one is talking about it. She inspired me so much one day I had a rough day at work and I cried for the rest of the day and I remembered her and I said to myself "Marinette would cry but she wouldn't give up and would give her all the next day and would keep fighting if animated child and handle loss so well so can you" she was the first person I thought about and I learned more from her than any other superhero ever and I know a lot of them. Literally both of her so-called mentors were useless as fuck when it comes to emotional burden the superhero life would bring her and no one prepared her for this and every season she is more unhinged but she's also more grown up and if she can get traumatised so often and learn a lesson to move on and become an even better person so can all of us. She's the best superhero for a reason.

#She legit doesn't get praised enough guys look at her #miraculous ladybug #marinette dupain cheng #Ladybug #Marinette sugar #Ladybug sugar #ml analysis

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jennrypan · 10 months

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This show refuses to give Adrien any agency and it shows.

Maybe don't give the senti kids ring to someone else?? Maybe give it to HIM??

He doesn't need a protector. He needs someone to CARE for him, he is not some helpless child. Holy shit.

What is the lesson in this show??

You can do whatever you want if you love someone enough?? Your abusive parents will get away with abusing you if you A: are a terrible child that deserved it or B: They just loved you soo much they should be remembered for that and only that!

Bffr.

It shouldn't be this heard to write..normal stories about a magical girl SOOO MANY PEOPLE have done it. And yet this one French guy fumbled the bag so fucking hard it's insane.

#ml spoilers #j.p speaks #mlb writing salt #this show is a fucking MESS

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blueberry-macaron · 9 months

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Watched the movie and honestly it was fine. No groundbreaking cinematic masterpiece. No disasturous dumpster fire. Just an ok movie that felt like a fanfiction from s1

Here's some more thoughts I have. There's no structure it's a little chaotic. Also spoilers (duh)

The stuff I liked:

The music was good

THE ANIMATION IS GORGEOUS. The lighting in every scene is perfect, the city actually feels populated and the colors overall are so much prettier than in the show

I loved the akuma designs

They do a good job of establishing how Marinette, in the beginning, is very anxious, affected by Chloe's bullying and how she doesn't have friends. That works better than what the show tried to establish, about how Marinette had no friends but still being popular for some reason

Alya being a good friend

The way Adrien deals with the loss of his mother and how playing the piano brings him comfort and makes him feel close to her. Imo the show went overboard with how literally everything Adrien does is dictated by his dad and never something he might genuinely enjoy doing. The fact that he had this hobby made him feel like he was more than just a sad boi

Adrien also seems to struggle with not having many friends outside Nino. Works pretty well with the characterization that he's socially awkward after being homeschooled for most of his life

Generally this Adrien has more PV vibes? I‘m digging it ngl

Marinette's dad is the best

Fu's introduction to Marinette sure was something xD

Gabriel was a good villain character. The show version is just some weird ass goof who is a huge ass to his son and everyone, yet the show wants you to feel for him without giving us a reason to care. This version actually has complexity. He’s still an ass, but now the pain over loosing Emilie feels real. You also have him hesitating to use the butterfly but ultimately spiraling completely into an actually threatening villain.

the fight scenes looked great

Marinette is still clumsy and awkward towards Adrien but without being too cringe about it and doing stupid shit. It‘s just heart eyes and day dreams and some stuttering. She‘s still nervous but I never felt like Adrien brought oit her worst side like in the show. She was simply a girl in love. This was wholesome to watch and so much better than... whatever the fuck the show did with the fucking dating trauma to use for """comedy""" bc the show runners have zero respect for her seriously I'll never get over how fucking stupid that was Marinette honey you deserve so much better

I honestly think this is a better version of the square. Still heavily flawed, but their dynamic feels so much more natural. Ladynoir stuff was sweet

The end where Marinette looses the earrings and then saves Chat without the costume was a good scene

Most of their moments were just quiet moments between just the two without any outside forces and characters constantly pushing them together. This bothers me in the show so much and is another major reason I cant get behind the ship, but for the most part the movie has some gentle pushing here and there but no convoluted and stupid cringy plans. In that regard movie love square is superior

Nino had a thing for Alya from the start pretty much, unlike in the show where he was crushing on Mari five minutes before getting with Alya. I like them in both the show and the movie, but the way they got together in the show was a little meh

Nino getting screentime in general

The stuff I don't know how to feel about:

Careless whisper. It was silly goofy but especially the second time when Paris is on fire and we skip to Adrien's room where he sulks... yeah that tome switch really threw me off

Two different voice actors for singing an talking. The difference was very jarring and while good for Bryce, Cristina has the voice of an angel like cmon I need her to do at least a cover from one song

Gabriel's redemption. Ok so I'm a little torn because the way they did it ties in very well with the the "power of love" theme that his love for Adrien makes him realize his mistakes bla bla, but he still terrorized a city and yet faces zero consequences, and Adrien forgives him, which are all thing that really rub me the wrong way. Idk the franchise is so obsessed with painting this man in a sympathetic light and in order for this to feel truly satisfying Gabriel shouldn't have tried to destroy Paris like 5 minutes earlier. I see what they went for and thematically it worked but I just need Gabriel to be put in prison

Speaking of Gabriel, the Adrien Gabe relationship isn't as abusive as in the show. This isn't good or bad, but I still think (very unpopular opinion) the show doesn't handle abuse well at all bc the only point of the abuse is pity points in oder to get the fans to care about the characters. So taking that out of the movie where you have limited time to wrap this whole thing up might've been a smart decision

With the ending they sort of hinted at a sequel

The cut off kiss at the end. They still act like a love square kiss is something sacred that they can‘t just give their fans. Commit to it already

The stuff I didn't like:

The dialogue was… something. Marinette just asking her mom over breakfast how to make her dreams come true. Babe just just woke up, that deep convos are for late nights

Generally the dialogue in both the movie and the show is a little weird

Lika Alya‘s „people try really hard to fail as hard as you“ Marinette spilled some coffee it‘s not that hard

Even though I liked the portrayel of Marinette‘s anxiety, at times the went overboard with it

Going back to the Gabriel redemption, just let Adrien have negative feeling about Gabriel already. The s5 finale have him idolize him and here he just instantly forgives and forget

So the butterfly is a villainous tool by default? They could've fixed their messy lore but noooo

The scene where Marinette gets her miraculous feels rushed.

The way Adrien receives his miraculous. He was chilling in his room and suddenly a black cat shows up. He doesn't even have to proove himself like Mari when she almost got hit by a truck. The moment in the show was already weak but this is just fucking stupid

the first akuma was just some random dude. They should've used someone the main duo has a connection to

Chat being a lil bitch about Ladybug rejecting him. Hated it in the show, hate it here. They could've used the movie to fix Adrien and they didn't. Other than that being a dick move as so many people have explained millions of times now, I find this such a boring source of conflict for the climax of the movie? They worked well before and they both know they care for each other as partners and even if being rejected hurts, Chat acts like LB just threw their friendship away or something with how strongly he reacts to it. In the show it felt blown out of proportion and it does here as well. I think they should've had a different kind of conflict which actively hurt their partnership or Chat stops treating LB unfairly just because to her he‘s not a romantic partner.

The fart jokes. Though tbf this is a kids movie

The way Marinette falls for Adrien was extremely underwhelming. Adrien smiles at her and helps her get up and then just walks out of the library all like „she‘s so weird“. Could‘ve been fixed if he and Mari stayed in the library and had a little conversation

Also Adrien‘s introduction in general? He just chills in the library and… yeah that‘s it. I blame this on the writers of the movie cutting character introductions short because they assume the audience already knows the characters and therefore doesn‘t have to introduce them. I don‘t think that was a good choice

The Adrienette stuff was just a montage. Would've been nice to actually see them connect (though that was probably a time issue)

Also they didn't give any spotlight to Marinette's good qualities like selflessness and intelligence. Would've been nice to see her be more willing to be there for people and help them out with things as a result of her gaining more confidence

Seriously the montage was a big mistake and takes away a lot from what could've made the movie stand out

The reveal felt a lot like Adrien only loving Marinette because she's LB, which was a big reason for me to not ship Adrienette prior to the flip (not that I did after). Something like this would‘ve been believable in a setting where they didn‘t know each other as civilians I guess, but that doesn‘t work for the square. Had they actually shown Adrienette develop outside of a montage this would'be been way more believable and touching.

I think a reverse love square from the beginning would've worked better here, or they should've made the Ladynoir side canon

Adrien tells Marinette about his dead mom. Chat noir tells Ladybug about his dead mom. How does she not make the connection?

The "power of love" theme fell flat with Marinette. she doesn't have her moment of "oh I have to protect the people I love" like Tikki's dialogue suggests. There were multiple people at the theme park she could've spotted being in danger and that should've made her want to save them. Tom being there was literally the perfect set-up. The show does this with Alya being trapped under a car or something and Marinette seeing her

I also think the jump from anxious Mari to brave Mari didn't work. In both the show and the movie it just feels like she just decides to be confident now without really getting there through hard work. The motivation was there in the show (see previous point) but in both instances it just happened too fast. Let Marinette have time to really adjust to her new role

This would've worked if the movie didn't try to keep the show's formula of "villain of the week". Why are we getting a montage about that when there's already a whole ass show with five seasons where we already see that? This montage took up time that could've been used more effectively. The movie should've tried to be more of it's own thing, really shoud've tried to flesh out the characters more in a way the show doesn't. They didn't need LB and CN immediately competent and loved by the public after the theme park fiasco. Just use the run time of the movie to get adjusted to fighting crime on a weekly basis, have them fail to then fix their mistakes and learn from them. Why not do a training montage with the point of becoming better instead of flirting? The movie tries too hard to keep up the show formula and it takes away the quality the story could've had

Also in Marinette's case it felt like the only "power of love" that mattered was her partnership with Chat. Her family and friends weren't completely unimportant but definetely underutilized in that regard. Romantic love is not the only important love you know

Their powers of cataclysm and miraculous ladybug only came in at the very end. The built up could've worked if they spent more time showing how they become good and experienced heroes over time

Generally the climax was underwhelming. Gabriel learns Chat‘s identity and the damage is made undone like 10 seconds later

Adrien being like "yeah I didn't really get close to people after my mom died" what's with the Nino erasure smh

Luka wasn't important

Kagami wasn't even there

I think the end scene hinted at the sentimonster stuff and I wished they would've just not include that

Final thoughts

There are things the movie did better than the show and some things it didn't. They don't waste much time on establishing who the characters are because they expect viewers to already know that from watching the show. But like the show, they fail to use the concepts they've set up in an effective way. The movie not only tries to stay true to the show but is almost dependent on the audience knowing the series.

But yeah, the movie atmosphere was nice. Nothing extraordinary but also not super bad. It had s1 vibes and despite the problems I listed, I had a good time for the most part. Not a must watch but still fine

4/10

#ml movie #ml movie spoilers #ml review #long post #ml salt #about the movie and the show

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xhanisai · 2 years

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I love in the ML fandom, there are three constants:

Gabriel, Lila, and Show!Felix need to be bitchslapped.

Adrien needs a hug.

Chloe deserved a better written character arc that didn’t get shafted.

My favorite idea is (probably) one I have alone: Marinette needs a day off or she’ll go feral and commit manslaughter on everyone/Marinette’s FUCKIN PISSED. Like the Kirby picture.

You had me until the "Chloe deserved a better-written character arc that didn’t get shafted."

Her character arc has barely started. I've already talked and mentioned about this many times LMAO.

We only got an insight into Chloe's backstory and relationship with her family and only once has she selflessly wielded the Bee miraculous to protect her family (which Ladybug handed to her DESPITE the girl having almost killed Marinette and her family and a bunch of others in the train for a staged superhero stunt to impress that asshole of a mother she has). This is not a redemption arc- it's the start of (as you mentioned) a character arc.

We see her become more arrogant and self-entitled when it comes to the bee miraculous. Though she practically worshipped Ladybug, she treated Chat Noir like shit. Towards the end of season three, we see Chloe become more and more desperate because she feels like she's deserving of the bee miraculous and that it belongs to her solely. Then we see her finally realise that Ladybug won't give in to her demands (the red heroine mainly not doing so because Chloe has RISKED her identity and thus put herself and her family in danger), giving in to Le Papillon's manipulation.

And throughout season four, Chloe is continuing to get worse and worse. She's teamed up with Lila just to get in Marinette's way of happiness even at the cost of her 'childhood best friend's' happiness. She no longer shows any remorse or cares for Adrien- someone she's supposed to care for.

This is all a clear build-up for something. Just because she's growing into a worse person doesn't mean it's a badly written character arc. It's excellent because she's an antagonist!

And keep in mind, I am a HUGE Chloe fan.

I love her the way she is. I love that she's petty, horrible and just so cruel to everyone. I love that she's digging her own grave and becoming worse and worse because not every single rich bully mean girl have to be redeemed!

Am I open for her to have a redemption arc? Of course! I believe that Zoe might be the key to that and I theorise that they would become sisters who share the bee miraculous.

Overall, I personally believe that salt fics and fix-it fics that have Chloe having realised Lila's lies all this time (despite being one of the many people to believe her lies all the time in canon and joining up with her) and showing what a 'queen' she is all along and being a mouthpiece for the author is what skewed the fandom (especially the west!!!) regarding what Chloe is really like.

As far as we know with what canon has shown us:

She has bullied Marinette and her classmates for years and never apologised or made up for it.

She barely gives a shit about Adrien's happiness and has attempted to scheme plans that would have had him locked up in the mansion forever (Episode: Gabriel Agreste).

She is mainly horrid to Sabrina and treats her like a lackey.

Do I need to mention all those people she got akumatised because of how mean she was or because of petty actions?

There's so much more man.

But anyway. She is a fourteen-year-old teenager. She has plenty of room for growth and to learn to be a better person. Am I saying she's evil incarnate? No, that's Gabriel Agreste.

However, she is absolutely no angel either. Have a good day!

#my asks #chloe bourgeois #miraculous ladybug #miraculous ladybug and chat noir #this isn't salt this is me stating what canon has shown us and what the fandom keeps wanting to see instead #the worst part is that these same people glorify chloe whilst shitting on alya #the best friend of marinette who's a best friend i would kill to have of my own #yeah sure alya isn't perfect but she is imperfectly perfect #people often switch their personalities and it's just like #w h y #why are you all so obsessed for a redemption arc for chloe? to the point of doing disservice of her actual character and using her as your #own mouthpiece??#YOU are committing identity fraud by using chloe as a cover #i do apologise for the essay brhdft #but i am sick and tired of people claiming that chloe's story is badly written just because she isn't the sassy goody two shoes the fandom #wants her to be #if you truly love chloe you would accept all her faults!

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teayana · 9 months

Text

miraculous awakening

alright i watched the ml movie and, though it is flawed, i actually really loved it (i didn't expect it 'cause i've seen so many rather negative reviews). and there was something truly special in watching the movie in the cinema with people who love miraculous just as much as i do and even more. there were a lot of people around my age ( over 20 yo) and not so many children. (one little girl was dressed as ladybug, so cute)

i have some thoughts about the movie i'd like to share. there'll be some 📌SPOILERS📌 ahead.

😻what i liked about the movie😻:

🐞it is just so incredibly beautiful. a masterpiece, honestly.

🐞it was really fun, i laughed a lot (even though not all the jokes are good)

🐞LADYNOIR! that's all. just them. (i didn't have high expectations about the movie but what i did expect was to see my sweetest loveliest ladynoir and i got what i wanted and even more). their song stronger together (plus forts ensemble) will forever be my favorite.

🐞the characters are great. marinette is adorable. she is clumsy and shy (a bit more than she is in the show)

but she is also brave and strong and heroic - all she needed was just to believe in herself. also i loved her interaction with adrien much better in the movie than in the show. she isn't cringy around him, isn't stuttering and isn't confusing her words and she isn't stalkering him!

🐞adrien is a sweet sad boy as adrien and a bit annoying as chat in the beginning, and i love him so soo much!

🐞alya is gorgeous as always. nino, stuttering around her show!marinette style is just hilarious! same, nino, same. she is a goddamn queen after all.

🐞sabrina. she's a cutie pie.

🐞gabriel. the man actually cares for his son. his remorse and redemption in the end - wow, that was soooo great (unless the last scene ruined it, but maybe not - didn't really get what was it all about).

🐞the final battle. masterpiece.

😾and there were also things i didn't like about the movie😾:

🐞explanation of magic powers. ladybug doesn't have her lucky charm which means that up until the last battle (when she got a power-up) she wasn't able to fix the damage and left city in ruins.

🐞adrien didn't get the chance to deserve his miraculous, plagg just chose him without any explanation given. of course i get it that marinette is the very main character here but really? they couldn't spend five minutes to show adrien helping master fu or something?

🐞plagg. oh boy. what happened to you. farting jokes? really??

🐞the songs are good but not so memorable. like a compilation of any disney movie song i've ever heard before.

🐞the identity reveal. i know we're all tired of waiting for it to happen in the show. but the movie feels rushed and to me it needed more screen time. or a few more movies. i really wanted more love square drama before the reveal. 'cause ladybug seems to have feelings for chat noir (especially it is obvious in the stronger together song, even though she rejects chat), but adrien isn't remotely in love with marinette by the time of the reveal.

🐞also what happened to gabriel in the end? everyone knows he was a hawkmoth but did he go to jail or something?

🐞and what was the last scene about? is he back to his evil shit or will nathalie be the next villain?

anyway, i loved it💖

hope we'll get to see the sequel.

#miraculous ladybug #ml ladybug #ml spoilers #ml movie #ml awakening #ml movie spoilers #awakening spoilers #ml awakening spoilers #marinette dupen chang #adrien agreste #ladynoir #ladybug #chat noir #gabriel agreste

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ilikekidsshows · 1 year

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Okay so I'm not going to act like Chloé is a harmless angel (trust me those people irritate me almost as much as the haters do).

But am I the only one who finds it kind of hypocritical that she's the one who's punished for relying on her Miraculous when at least FOUR other characters have relied on their Miraculouses to improve themselves instead of doing it on their own?

Adrien relies on his to run away from his model life, Zoé relies on her's to have any character at all, Juleka relied on her's to learn how to speak to people, and Sabrina relied on her's to break away from Chloé. There's more examples, but those are just the fair few.

Like don't get me wrong, I get why Chloé was taken off the team as much as I hate it (not because I'm dying to see her as a hero, but because it would've been nice to have a holder that doesn't flock to Ladybug all the time), but I feel like the above stuff really undercuts the message of improving one's self without handholding. Like you could've done a million things with Chloé misusing a Miraculous and this show didn't do shit with it.

Did Chloé actually try to improve herself with her Miraculous, though? Like, don’t get me wrong, I love stories about heroes growing into their powers and becoming better people through trying to find a use for their sudden superpowers, but that’s very explicitly not the story that was going on with Chloé. Chloé was using her Miraculous to improve her lot in life. She wasn’t trying to grow as a person, she was trying to get something she wanted, while her personality remained largely the same.

However, I also don’t believe in moralizing over what heroes use their powers for, as long as they are ultimately still heroes. I do think heroes should get some joy out of being a hero, because otherwise the story is just about a good, caring person suffering for the sake of the world, which is not a story that appeals to me. I don’t like stories about noble suffering in the face of hardship and zero acknowledgement, because it glorifies the suggestion that we should all just buck up and suffer in silence no matter how unfairly we’re treated because that’s the “morally right” thing to do.

Basically, I think it’s fine that the characters in Miraculous use their Miraculous powers to get stuff they want as long as they don’t hurt others to do so, which they don’t. Frankly, if Chloé’s unreliability as a hero was just because she wanted the accolades she gets as a hero, I’d also think she should get to keep her Miraculous, because that’s still a motivation to do good. I also agree that having less shiny examples of heroes in a team causing friction can create interesting team dynamics. However, that’s also not what Chloé’s story is actually about.

Chloé made her identity public. One of the big points of this series is the secrecy around the Miraculous and the secret identities. The only exception to this is the writers’ tool Félix, and it’s the reason I think he is one. The other characters constantly talk about the importance of keeping their identities a secret, it’s literally the lesson and main point of the episode ‘Sapotis’, and the first thing Chloé does with her Miraculous is tell everyone she has it, show them how it works, and what hero she becomes with it. Chloé gets repeatedly told that it’s not safe to give her a Miraculous, but she refuses to listen. Actually, I’m pretty sure that no one in the show actually says that she doesn’t deserve her Miraculous. It was always presented as a security issue, even when the characters talk about it outside of Chloé’s presence.

The view of Chloé as undeserving of a Miraculous comes from the fandom, who’ve seen how she never started treating her classmates better, actually treating Sabrina even worse, despite her claims of wanting to be a hero. The show doesn’t point out her hypocrisy in this, which is why she’s never rejected on that principle by the characters. Chloé was morally unworthy, but that wasn't the reason in-story for her getting "fired". The only reason Marinette gives for not giving her a Miraculous is her identity being public posing a security risk.

#miraculous tales of ladybug and chat noir #miraculous ladybug #chloe bourgeois #ml meta

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theerurishipper · 29 days

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For me, the most hilarious thing that broke Ladynoir's neck will forever be that Marinette in Kuro Neko never even realized that Shadowmoth presumably having akumatized Chat Noir as a civilian is a BAD THING for more reasons than mostly her having been a bad guardian.

That was for real at the core of her breakdown in that episode, you can re-watch it, its right there, and what Adrien had to accept and sympathize with.

That is hilariously pathetic bc that girl never even realized that if it truly had been civilian Chat Noir who had been akumatized, then merely deakumatizing him wouldn't have been enough by a LONG SHOT bc ShadowMoth fucking FOUND HIM.

Chat and his loved ones would from then on never be safe again in Paris until ShadowMoth is defeated, but Marinette at no point in the episode or even by the end of season 5 ever realizes that.

Straight up canonly speaking, In the scenario of Chat Noir being found by ShadowMoth as a civilian, the biggest victim in Marinette’s eyes was herself and her poor guardianship. That is hilariously depressing.

That boy has barely any worth in her eyes, it's questionable if she even noticed for how long he stopped showing up in the beginning of the episode. If the father son Story had dared to happen like in Ephemeral before and Adrien had been caught behind her back and now was in desperate need of her PLEASE realizing that Chat isn't showing up anymore, man, if Gabriel had been using the opportunity to try and manipulate Adrien into thinking Ladybug doesn't care for him Gabriel would have straight up succeeded here.

But sure, Ladynette is bestest gurl, leader and partner in all of fiction lol

Not to mention, Marinette just dead ass let CatWalker be the deciding voice of the Ladynoir conflict, despite him from her perspective having no right to claim he has any strong opinion on this at all.

À random prince charming showed up for 10 minutes, told her she's the most amazing and blameless person who ever walked upon earth and that Chat's an ungrateful count with no rights so HE - CatWalker - will now dedicate himself to be her magical perfect care taker 'as she deserves'

And gurl just went "well damn, you are right! Chat IS a cunt, I AM blameless and deserves a perfect therapy prince!" and just called it a day and never learned from this.

From Marinette's perspective CatWalker should have been the most blatantly obvious manipulator ever since she has no idea if Plagg actually made it safely to Fu's "second black cat" and she should have punched him in the face for how bluntly he shit talked Chat Noir and tried making her fall for and trust him - CatWalker.

But nah. shit-talking Chat and stroking her ego were when Marinette genuinely fell in love with him for good and only send him away when having CatWalker around wasn't practical for her hero performance (which was then ALSO indirectly blamed on Chat Noir in the end lol

Nice, good to know that Marinette's dream love interest and partner being a magical desperate care taker of perfection who would rather rip himself apart than ask a single thing of her, and that alarming romantic type of hers having made her incapable of paying attention to the fight was CHAT NOIR'S fault, or how else could she be a flawless queen?

That episode is AWFUL lol

And she never even learned anything at any point. She still considered Monarch finding out Chat's identity irrelevant in Elation bc one "No" in over 4 seasons was enough for her to almost agree turning into his enemy and give Monarch Chat's identity herself so she can know what name his lips are attached to. An akumatization CHAT had to prevent by kissing her despite not wanting it.

Amazing, what a role model for girls.

And at the end of season 5 Chat Noir still was the human sacrifice because Adrien knew he has no right to ask for help from Ladybug bc she's all that matters, but at least he could tell Plagg that Ladybug will "forgive him" and he'll be Chat Noir again.

Magnificent. Feminism truly peaked with Marinette Dupain-Cheng.

What value does she see in him again beyond her comfort and endless moral free passes and rewards for barely giving a damn? Because I truly can't figure out what Marinette's oh so pure love for her Kitty is actually supposed to be. The more I look into it, the more superficial Marinette's side of Ladynoir and Marichat becomes.

Writers really dropped the ball on the one thing their show was hinging on huh.

Thank you for your ask!

#ML Salt #Marinette Salt #Ladybug Salt #ML Writing Salt #ML Writers Salt #Asks #Anon you're a LOT harsher than I am tbh but you make some good points!

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critical-thinking-is-mandatory · 2 years

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I saw some Adrien stans blaming Kagami for Lies. As if she deserved to be taken as a fool by him. "He wasn't into her as she was on him" tHEN, BREAK UP WITH HER, COWARD.

Any decent person won't waste anyone's time.

He knew what he was doing. She wasn't just a friend like Marinette, but his actual girlfriend who gave him a peck on the lips even.

Something he doesn't do to Nino, Alya, or anyone of the class.

exactly! there was absolutely no reason to lead Kagami on like that and she had every right to be upset. Kagami was putting every fiber of her being into that relationship and Adrien had his eyes on someone else the entire time.

what a coward honestly. were we supposed to like him for this? Adrien could've told Kagami, at any point in their relationship "hey, I don't think I like you romantically, still friends?" and that would have been an infinitely better course of action.

but to just...just flap around pretending to love a girl who's clearly very attracted to Adrien until she finally realises he doesn't actually like her romantically?? wow. it's literally so rude and inconsiderate and just makes Adrien look like a huge bag of dicks for leading Kagami on.

and i am sick to death of Adrien stans seeing this kind of shit and then turning to pin the blame on anybody but the actual culprit. Adrien wasted Kagami's time. Adrien pretended to love Kagami. Adrien lied to Kagami. Adrien was the one who didn't have the decency to talk to his own girlfriend and even hint that he was having conflicted feelings about their relationship.

If that's how Adrien acts when he's in a relationship I'd hate to see what he'd be like if he and Marinette ever got together and someone else came along, or if he didn't know Marinette was Ladybug.

#asks #anonymous #adrien salt #ml salt #ml fandom salt #ml creators salt #ml writers salt #this is why i can't stand adrigami #no hate to the shippers #but adrien just really like. didn't seem to care about kagami at all

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princess-of-the-corner · 1 year

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I just realized the show really did make it very obvious that Derision is just one massive retcon since last season Marinette willingly went to the public pool and was completely fine heck she even went underwater accidentally

Meanwhile according to the script for Derision merely planning to go to the pool was enough to trigger PTSD flashbacks, while getting splashed by water there was enough to put her into a panic attack

YEAH NO LIKE

Things that it's retconning re: Marinette's behavior:

1.) going to the pool. Marinette has gone to the pool a few times. Or at least planned to. She went to the pool with Kagami in 'Mr. Pigeon 72', she showed no fear of water throughout Siren(and no reaction re: someone tried confessing to Kim and it went sideways), and in Gorizilla she had planned to go to the pool with the rest of the class until Adrien sidetracked her

2.) saying that we should take all of Marinette's weird ass stalker behavior seriously, but blame it on Chloé(just Chloé. Not Kim or Sabrina)

3.) That she has such feelings about the whole 'pranked and humiliated' thing in the first place despite previously trying to do worse to Kagami and potentially causing even more accidental harm/potential negligent death and life ruining during that episode.

4.) Making Kim an asshole. Like he was /kind of/ a jerk, but it was 90% dumbass not realizing he's being a dick. Now he's the 'it's just a prank bro!' type and is totally okay with the shit Chloé has done.

5.) Speaking of Kim being a dumbass: Somehow he doesn't realize Ondine is in love with him until now???

6.) Marinette's stalker ass behavior being part of trauma where she insists it would be how she is with any crush, despite never showing that behavior toward Luka or Chat Noir. Just Adrien.

7.) The entirety of how Marinette acted in Origins (and honestly throughout the entire series but I digress). Derision shows her terrified of Chloé. Paranoid about every step, quiet and not talking to anyone, even faking sick to skip school. In Origins? She's annoyed by Chloé, but not scared. Just exasperated. She's friendly to the class. She's even able to stand up to Chloé and protest when she's ordered around. And all that /before/ getting the confidence boost of successfully being Ladybug!!

8.) Idk if this technically counts but I'm counting it anyway! Adrien's feelings on straight up homicide! Literally at the beginning of this season he was all "Oh, I know Monarch is a supervillain that has been making our lives literal hell for the past year and has nearly cause so much death and destruction, but I feel bad about accidentally cataclysming him!". And now in Derision he's like "Idc if I considered you a friend most of the time, you made Marinette cry once so you deserve death!"

#ml leaks

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