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randomnameless · 1 month

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The idea that SS says the Church needs to be rehabilitated in Rhea's ending is entirely on the translation. The Japanese text says that "Meanwhile, Rhea, who survived, returned to her duties as archbishop after she recovered her strength, and she aligned herself with the unified kingdom, working to rebuild the church and help people suffering from war damage." And while I've mentioned Claude's endings with Flayn before regarding Wind, the endings mention that the new order/society of Fodlan is built by the heroes who saved Fodlan which would include the CoS.

Pat really hated Rhea it seems if he does that to her ending. Her rebuilding the CoS? That's not good, she needs to make them atone. But then again, he also tried to make it so that Edelgard had similar ideals to Claude when the game ultimately says otherwise.

Oh I know, I've read your posts about this lol

TBH, while Pat is to blame for the Pat'd script, the Church, as in Rhea's church, is always depicted as needing/being reformed : it wasn't in SS's ending proper, but in Rhea's own S Support where she blames herself for, well, everything that happened but also confesses she used her position as the Archbishop for her personal plan to see her mother again...

And yet, if we look at her actions - and the ones that can be tied to her "rez Sothis plan", bar maybe making Sitri a priest/nun, what did she meant by the "took advantage of my position of the Archbishop"/"used my position as the Archbishop" to see her mother again?

In this S-support, Rhea herself considers her CoS/her lead of the CoS might be to blame for Supreme Leader's war and gives "empty" criticisms to her actions : emtpy as in, well, the game doesn't bother telling/showing what were those "occasions" where Rhea explicitely used her position as the Archbishop to make her wish come true.

Maybe if we pull our hair a bit, we can say the "Billy sitting on the chair" ceremony? That was made to "bring back" Sothis and she asked Billy to do that as their boss and the Archbishop of the CoS?

In a nutshell, it's less "the church needs to be reformed" in SS, but more "Rhea acknowledges she did BaD things (which are?) and used the CoS through her position as the Archbishop to do so (receipt not found?)" so with Billy and in the epilogue, obviously she doesn't do those "BaD" things anymore and their work is miraculous.

As for Claude, while he does "fall in love" with Flayn who is working in the Church with her Father - and this ending obviously cannot be triggered if Claude ends with Billy - Claude's very own words in his Billy S-support, imo, cannot be ignored, while Billy will take Rhea's role as the one people will rely on, he wants Billy to create a Fodlan with "new values" that won't exclude people for being different... implying Fodlan had such values before the War, CoS included - when we know, even in FE16, that this is bullshit!

So while Claude can end up with Flayn despite her being a member of the Church, she's a member of the post-VW Church that is "reformed/different" from the old church, because in VW, the Church has "new values that don't exclude people for being different".

So back to the original post

Compare with Houses, who always removes Nabateans/Rhea of the picture (except in SS’s S support) and brings “reforms” to the CoS - because it needed some, even if we will never know what they are or why those reforms were needed.

SS's reforms are less "reforms" and more "Rhea reckons she did BaD things so will stop doing them now".

The icing on the cake takes the form of Seteth'n'Flayn's paired ending, let it be in the lolcalised or even in the OG (Googled though!) script :

While Flayn disappeared soon after the war, Seteth stayed at the monastery and worked to restore the authority of the Church of Seiros. Doing away with his old strictness, he adopted a tolerant stance toward all, and encouraged his followers to do the same. When he was satisfied that the message was received, he vanished from the monastery.

In the lolcalised version, Seteth adopts a tolerant stance toward all (which he didn't have before?? Source?) and asked his followers to do the same (which he never did before either???) and apparently, when he was satisfied because his message not to be, uh, asshats was received, he finally left the monastery.

Because obviously, under the old CoS, when he was leading investigations against the Western Church and called names by those same people because his creed and followers are "too tolerant", he, uh, wasn't "adopting a tolerant stance toward all and encouraging his followers to do the same".

In the JP version :

フレンは戦後まもなく姿を消したが、セテスはその後も大司教補佐として大修道院に留まり、教団の権威回復に努めた。かつての厳格さは鳴りを潜め、何事においても寛大な措置を取るよう運営方針を転換。時代に即した教義の改革を妥協なく推し進め、信徒に混乱のないことを見届けてから大修道院を去った

Google'd it gives some :

Flayn disappeared shortly after the war, but Seteth remained at the abbey as an assistant archbishop and worked to restore the authority of the order. His former strictness has subsided, and he has changed his management policy to take more lenient measures in all matters. He uncompromisingly promoted doctrinal reform in line with the times, and after seeing that there was no confusion among the faithful, he left the abbey.

So, sure, there's no fuckery about "a tolerant stance" because the JP script is more coherent with, well, the general script, it's more like Seteth finally stopped being so strict and became a tidbit more lenient.

And yet...

What are those "doctrinal reforms in line with the times"???

How did he change the CoS' doctrine, sure, it was to be "in line with the times", but what was changed?

This ending basically tells us - something Seteth also says in Nopes' expedition lines or in his Tea time lines? - that he doesn't agree with the doctrine (whatever it is he doesn't agree with) and since Seteth is a playable character who can be supported, his PoV is obviously biased as in, for the player, Seteth is the kind guy so if he says the CoS' doctrine needs reformation, he won't reform it to put some "might makes right" rule, but obviously reform it for the better.

What is that "better doctrine"?

This ending can be obtained in all routes where Nabateans aren't hunted to make a world "for humanity", even in SS where Rhea'n'Billy work together to make Fodlan prosperous and miraculous so... in all routes, the Church is reformed.

Houses wise : the Church is always reformed/needs reformation/did BaD things we never saw -> which serves to make it more "shady" and pretend to have "earl grey", because if the Church always needs reformation, then Supreme Leader targeting it isn't completely unjustified and nonsensical, right?

But when Nopes drops FE16's framing a little bit and we see, maybe for 15 seconds, the CoS do stuff... well, even if Seteth mentions "not agreeing with all tenets", from what we see and hear about the CoS, his doubts don't have the same weight since, hey, we witness the "help other if they need it" tenets, "don't impose the CoS' values on people who aren't from Fodlan" tenet, "we will repay our debts" tenet, etc etc.

Is this the part of the doctrine Seteth disagrees with? This doctrine needs reformation?

Tl;Dr : Church BaD which is why Supreme Leader's war isn't completely nonsensical and why the self insert of this opus can rightfully become God and run the show better than anyone who was there before, but we will never show us what this "BaD" entail, we just are told about it.

In turn, this creates Earl Grey and the "morally grey masterpiece uwu" reputation this game has - Agarthans have no place in this Earl Grey masterpiece, that's why some people try to come up with reasons or justifications to explain why they aren't that worse than the faction the game uses a piñata despite showing us all the "not BaD" things they do.

#fantasyinvader #imo it's less than the CoS is destroyed or ignored in the non tru piss ending #but it's always reformed/modified #because the original one under Rhea's leadership needed 'reformation'#whatever this entails #Seteth'n'Flayn's ending in both versions really sucks #that's why I can't take the Fodlan game's plot seriously #i guess we disagree on Claude lol #but back to your original post #Agarthans must be earl greyed because their victims are always depicted as very BaD #let it be by Supreme Leader but even in the rest of the games #so if the fake morally grey comes from the game telling us the sky is red when we see it's always blue #Agarthans musn't be evil and one note like they are in canon #they must somehow have redeeming qualities else it's another strike against #what the game is telling us about the Church being very very BaD and not #just an organisation that basically runs a giant charity #FE16 #3 nopes #i reblogged that post about puritanism #maybe it can also partly explain Pat's hateboner against the CoS?#idk

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