#Edmund dorrance

[arkhamknightd]

While Tim isn’t exactly the most interesting Robin I think it’s notable that out of all the protégés he comfortably has the best Rogue’s Gallery and it Carrie’s him a long way. Barb has Killer Moth, and formerly the Cavalier I guess, and Damien has his family but all of them are mostly Bruce’s villains. And everyone has rivals in Bruce’s rogue’s gallery but those connections never stick. Tim’s got Anarky, King Snake, and the General as pretty much exclusively his nemeses, and he’s got a great dynamic with all of them, like Lonnie, Dorrance, and Ulysses are all full fledged rogues with history, and most of that history is up against Tim. Steph is the only competition, but Cluemaster is ontologically pathetic by design and it’s tougher to have him be a recurring threat yknow. I think it’s worth putting energy into, because otherwise you end up with Dick’s most recurring foes being Blockbuster and Double Dare, I like Blockbuster and Double Dare more than most, but if they’re your arch-villains then something is wrong.

#tim drake #batman #robin #dc comics #batfamily #not art #nightwing #batgirl #dick grayson #barbara gordon #damian wayne #killer moth #cluemaster #arthur brown #drury walker #lonnie machin #ulysses hadrian armstrong #Edmund dorrance #stephanie brown

[pokeberry5]

Did Tim “kill” King Snake and does Bruce know?

In Tim’s first solo min, he goes to Paris to learn martial arts and get that “edge” he thinks he needs to properly assume his role as Robin. He ends up on the tail of British Lord, Hong Kong-based heroine kingpin, leader of the Ghost Dragon gang, Sir Edmund Dorrance AKA King Snake (who is blind, which will be important later). Tim’s only companions on this world tour are Lady Shiva, who wants to defeat Dorrance to prove herself stronger, and ex-DEA agent Clyde Rawlins, who wants revenge against Dorrance for Dorrance’s reprisal killing of his family.

Robin I #4 --  the dream team, I love them

The trio catch up to Dorrance in Hong Kong, where he’s waiting for them in what seems to be the top suite of his skyscraper, 50 stories up.

In this final confrontation with Dorrance, Tim takes full advantage of a crucial moment of distraction to kick Dorrance out of the window. Dorrance ends up clinging to a ledge, hanging on for dear life.

Shiva then appears to order Tim to kill Dorrance, presumably by kicking him off the ledge. (It becomes clear then that this is how Shiva intends to prove herself stronger than Dorrance: she trained Tim and therefore Tim is her weapon and an extension of herself. If Tim defeats Snake, she defeats him by proxy).

Tim refuses and walks away. All we see is him listen  as Dorrance falls to what Tim explicitly assumes is his death, 50 stories down.

Robin I #5

So, while Tim isn't directly responsible for Dorrance's death, he was the one to put him in that position and then left him there to fall.

It’s unclear how Tim conceives of his actions here and how we are supposed to interpret them, especially in light of Tim’s refusal to kill in earlier chapters in this arc (and after).

Robin I #2

Robin I #4 -- I love Shiva

He stopped Rawlins from shooting and killing gang members, but then points to the danger Rawlins might have put them in by accidentally shooting crates containing plague (please read this arc it’s really fun despite suffering from uh. severe written in the 90s syndrome) and then explicitly restates his vow not to kill.

AND THEN, the plot thickens!!!

Dorrance did not actually fall to his death; he caught himself on a ledge below, where he believes Tim came down to taunt him. He came away from his fall with a fear of Tim and an obsession with killing him to purge himself of that fear. (anyway Sir Edmund Dorrance walked so Ra’s could run)

Batman (1940) #468

Batman (1940) #469

Dorrance moves to Gotham with the Ghost Dragons and takes over Chinatown (which. Who decided to put, a British lord, what boils down to an allegory of British colonialism in Hong Kong as the head of Chinatown? I have questions – anyway crimelord Lynx ftw)

In the course of his pursuit of Robin, it is revealed that Bruce believes “it was Lady Shiva that caused Dorrance to plunge to his death”—that Tim told him this.

Batman (1940) #469

This is clarified a bit more later, when Bruce confronts Dorrance.

#469

Dorrance explicitly accuses Tim of murder. He outlines the incident leading up to his fall—that Tim tricked him and attacked him from behind (he did, we saw this), that Dorrance was left dangling, and that Tim then caused him to fall.

Bruce refutes this accusation by claiming that it “wasn’t Robin who left you for dead. … Robin spared you. It was Lady Shiva who threw you to your death.”

From this, we can assume that in the moments after Tim refused Shiva and walked away, Shiva threw Dorrance down, which he didn’t realize because, as Bruce claims, he is blind and was likely traumatized by the incident. We can’t know this for sure, however—that Shiva threw him down—for exactly those reasons. Bruce is working off what Tim apparently told him, but we—and Tim—did not see this happen.

Bruce’s explanation of what actually happened also calls into question what exactly Tim told him about what happened.

It’s unclear what exactly he is refuting by: “It wasn’t Robin who left you for dead.” Does he not count Tim leaving Dorrance hanging as “leaving him for dead” or is the implication that Bruce thinks Shiva was the one who both threw Dorrance out the window and off the ledge? We never actually see what Tim told Bruce.

This leaves us with some possibilities:

that what Tim did by leaving Dorrance to dangle, by leaving him to Shiva, does not count against Batman’s no-killing rule.

Perhaps that Bruce does not feel that he could have expected or wanted Tim to step between Shiva and her target, Dorrance

that Bruce does not actually know what really happened—that Tim kicked Dorrance out the window, which in turn implies that either Tim may have stretched the truth or Bruce misinterpreted (purposefully?) what Tim told him

These all seem inconsistent, however, with incidents further down the line, with Cluemaster for example, and then when Tim rebukes Azbats for leaving Abattoir to die. A core tenet of Tim’s characterization is his sometimes frustrated but dedicated adherence to the no-kill rule (im beating anyone who cites the league bases at me away with a stick). So I don’t know what to do with this. Maybe it’s just comic inconsistency. Chuck Dixon, what are you doing?

If anyone has any thoughts about how to reconcile all this!! Please grant me peace

ADDENDA

i.e. stuff that I can’t possibly expect to be addressed in comics, but that I think about anyway

Related to this arc—a point is made a few issues later that Tim at this time doesn’t really have anyone to confide in. He can't really talk to Batman, isn’t close to Dick at this point, and while he is willing to work with Alfred and ask for help with Bat-related things, they’re not yet emotionally close. This isolation is poignantly demonstrated by him confessing his troubles to his still-comatose father.

Robin II #2

WHOM then would he have talked to about all that happened on his little “world tour”? No one? Besides whatever happened with Dorrance and brutal training and isolation, he also had to deal with the fact that Clyde Rawlins—whom he presumably developed some sort of camaraderie with (it’s tim ;-; he forms connections) was killed by Dorrance while working this mission with him.

We know that he had no one to talk to about all that. Did Tim linger on Rawlins????? On the fact that Shiva called him her weapon?? My boy is 13 ;-;

I also love that the whole buildup to Tim’s debut as Robin is Bruce agonizing about whether he should allow another boy to assume the position that cost him his son, and is then followed by plenty of moments after of Batman being overprotective.

Batman (1940) #468

And yet, when Tim is like “I need an edge to be Robin” presumably Bruce?? although this is never explicit connects him with a martial artist in Paris and sends him off on his own. It’s also possible that Tim is the one who comes up with this given that he agonizes a bit over whether he’s doing right by choosing his own path

Robin I #1

Either way, Tim goes to Paris Alone and essentially Unsupervised.

This lack of supervision is further emphasized by the fact that he goes to hunt down a king pin all the way to Hong Kong with Lady fucking Shiva and an ex DEA agent and no other back up. And Bruce presumably doesn’t find out until Tim runs into the hitman Henri Ducard in Hong Kong, who is apparently Batman’s acquaintance. (#5)

I have so many questions. I know that the actual reasoning is probably “oh we want to give this new character a little mini adventure arc on his own!!! To showcase how cool and independent the new robin is” but STILL

(also tim immediately getting himself a little team :’) I lub him)

#red talks #i promise this is half comic panels it only looks long #tim drake #bruce wayne #edmund dorrance #king snake #SINCERE QUESTION PLS GRANT ME PEACE #dc #a lot of me finally reading through tim's stuff is me going BUT WAIT at the writers as they continue on and never address #SEVERAL EXTREMELY IMPORTANT THINGS #i also wanna yell into the void about wtf happens after joker's wild but that needs to be its own post #also this arc feels so slept on the angst potential is crazy #shout to in your image (and of poor construction) #which i should reread now that i have more context

[batfam-fanfics]

Red Raven by PlotlessWanderer

45/? Chapters - 247417 words

The sky cracks, whistles. Shouts and music blare from the house. Jason laughs and snags the bottle of port from the snow, lifting it over his head like a toast as fireworks spark in the sky. They’re in a bad spot, only able to see the bare edge of the display, but the colors of the fireworks sparkle in the cracks of the pond, over the cleanest patches of the dirty piles of snow. Jason upends the bottle, adding more color, laughing uproariously as he spins in a circle before dropping it and raising both middle fingers to the sky.

“Happy fucking new year!” He howls.

And Tim laughs.

(Or; A different meeting in a different time and place has enormous consequences)

#tim drake #jason todd #different first meeting #bruce wayne #alfred pennyworth #stephanie brown #king snake #edmund dorrance #lady shiva #damian wayne #fic rec #batfam fic rec #fanfiction recommendation #batfamily fic rec

[zahri-melitor]

This is such peak Bat dynamics in Gotham Knight #48-49.

Bruce is using a mission to invade Kobra in the middle of a massive incoming storm to train Cass how to fly the jet. (He’s being so supportive!)

Cass and Tim are snarking at each other. (Nobody likes a backseat driver, Tim)

Dick is unwilling to let himself be outdone in the sass department.

“Scenario 327, Batgirl as Damsel”.

Look at Cass act!

And then Tim’s face is delighted in this combination of “sucks to be you” and “yeah I know how that strike feels”.

And then Dick gets the interrogation in his masterful way.

#dc #z canon read throughs #tim drake #bruce wayne #cassandra cain #dick grayson #I appreciate that this is a Sir Edmund Dorrance plot too on top of a Bane one #justice for Tim’s rogues #I enjoy that basically every time we have a King Snake story he is DEFINITELY dead at the end of it #(until the next time someone wants to use him and it turns out SURPRISE he survived again) #gotham knights

[mzminola]

/goes to double check something on wiki/

What the FUCK do you mean King Snake is Banes’s DAD?!?!?!

#WHAT #Sir Edmund Dorrance #King Snake #DC #Bane DC #WHEN DOES THIS COME UP???

[kudosmyhero]

Robin #5: The Dark

Read Date: February 18, 2023 Cover Date: May 1991 ● Writer: Chuck Dixon ● Penciler: Tom Lyle ● Inker: Bob Smith ● Colorist: Adrienne Roy ● Letterer: Tim Harkins ● Editor: Dennis O'Neil ◦ Dan Raspler ●

**HERE BE SPOILERS: Skip ahead to the fan art/podcast to avoid spoilers

Reactions As I Read: ● moon is STILL full even though days have passed. who needs lunar accuracy when you have aesthetic, I guess ● the columns in Dorrance's building are very cool

● Dorrance is gonna be pissed that his guards are shooting up that clock of his ● damn, Robin is handy with that sling ● aww, RIP Clyde ● is that Bruce in disguise? ● and Tim's back in Gotham to officially start his career as Robin. (look how happy Batman looks) Yay!

● 👏👏👏👏👏

Synopsis: Robin, Clyde Rawlins and Lady Shiva stake out the Dorrance Building in Hong Kong. Clyde's hunger for revenge forces him to depart from the others and he begins to make his way into the skyscraper's front lobby. Robin has reviewed all of the building's security measures, and sneaks in from the basement levels. He disables the security systems allowing Clyde and Lady Shiva to continue without interference.

Clyde eventually tracks King Snake down and faces off with him in a trophy room. King Snake is in his element however and easily outfights Rawlins. He describes how he made Clyde's wife scream before he killed her. He kicks Rawlins in the back, snapping his spine, before wheeling around to deliver a fatal chop to his neck.

Robin meanwhile, makes his way towards the clock tower room where King Snake's men have planted the plague virus. King Snake's chief lieutenant, Bobbo, sees Robin on the catwalk and opens fire on him. Robin uses his sling and fires a screw into the chamber of Bobbo's gun. The gun backfires and resulting explosion kills Bobbo.

Robin then makes his way to the trophy room where he finds Clyde's dead body. King Snake emerges and the two begin fighting. Robin remains silent, so as to keep what little edge he has against a blind opponent. Despite his blindness, King Snake manages to beat Robin back with several brutal kicks. Robin knows that he has little chance of defeating King Snake in the dark, and uses his fighting staff to create a whistling sound to distract his opponent. While King Snake is disoriented, Robin kicks him through the window.

Lady Shiva finally emerges from the shadows and finds King Snake hanging on a ledge over a fifty-floor drop. Robin refuses to finish Dorrance for Shiva, and races back to the clock tower room to secure the plague. As he leaves, he hears King Snake's screams as he falls to his apparent death.

The Hong Kong authorities are called in and the virus is safely contained. Robin meets Henri Ducard who informs him that King Snake sent a cargo vessel filled with laundered money to Gotham City. He had intended on establishing a new headquarters there after destroying Hong Kong.

Robin returns to Gotham City and stops King Snake's shipment of money. He also encounters Lynx, who now possesses only one eye – punishment for her failure to kill him. Robin lets Lynx and the rest of the Ghost Dragons go. He reunites with his mentor, Batman, and the two swing off into the night.

(https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Robin_Vol_1_5)

Fan Art: Batman and Robins by J-Skipper

Accompanying Podcast: ● Robin: Everyone Loves the Drake - episode 15

#dc #lady shiva (sandra wu-san) #robin #robin (tim drake) #podcast - everyone loves the drake #comics #king snake (edmund dorrance) #batman #batman (bruce wayne) #fanart #comic books #fan art #podcast recommendation #dc comics

[righteousruin]

Nobody makes this worm a hero in my house

#with my whole chest FUCK edmund dorrance #'i lost my eyesight in the gunfire and just assumed your mom was dead so i left ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ' but you didn't get shot?? you fuckin liar lmao #bad dc no making him a hero fuck this dude #Worth a Thousand Words || Comic Spams #Editor's Note || Analysis

[heroesriseandfall]

I think a notable issue with how fanon portrays pit madness is that it is clearly biased toward Jason even though Jason is far from the only person affected by Lazarus Pits.

In the comics, the primary person that pit madness is considered to affect is Ra’s al Ghul, because as the theory goes, Ra’s has used the pit more than anyone else and each time makes him progressively more “mad” (not mad as in angry, but as in mentally ill). This is supposed to be a driving factor of Ra’s villainy.

Notably, fanon doesn’t really use the pit to excuse or delve into Ra’s actions and motivations. Ra’s is treated as deserving of full retribution and having complete autonomy over his actions (not that I want Ra’s to be excused, necessarily). But pit madness is frequently invoked to explain or even excuse Jason’s actions.

The only way I’ve consistently seen the al Ghuls noted as affected by Lazarus Pits in fanon is via their eye colors, to explain why fanon Jason is frequently given green eyes. This phenomenon seems to come entirely from fanon—comics Jason still has blue eyes, and while Ra’s typically has green, Talia has brown and Damian blue (though sometimes this depends on the artist). Also, not every Lazarus Pit is green, and Jason’s pit was originally gold, so their eyes becoming green wouldn’t make sense in the comics anyway.

Even beyond the al Ghuls, Jason is far from the only character to get dumped in the pit. I mean, around the same time Jason’s first Red Hood storylines were happening, Cassandra Cain died and was resurrected via Lazarus Pit. And several other characters have also been dumped in Lazarus Pits: Dinah Lance, Edmund Dorrance, Bane, the Riddler, Nora Fries, Bruce Wayne, Kate Kane, etc…

Several of those characters experienced brief pit madness, but with the exception of Ra’s who has lasting effects from repeated exposure, comics pit madness is usually quite temporary. The exact effects can vary for plot convenience, but the main effect is just a brief episode of violence and hostility (Cass and Dinah both attacked their companions before being restrained and calming down; this is also how the pit affected Ra’s when he used it for the first time). Anything after that short episode is either much more subtle, stems from the healing of injuries, or is completely nonexistent.

Fanon using the Pits to relinquish Jason of agency and responsibility even while continuing to treat Ra’s as an unsympathetic villain and also ignoring that Jason is not the only non-al Ghul to be subjected to the pit…it’s just, sorry, I love Jason, and I get why adding more supernatural consequences to the pits can be interesting, but it’s just very strange and kind of a problem to give Jason special treatment here, especially to just use it to remove his responsibility and agency.

#jason todd #ra’s al ghul #red hood #batfam #lazarus pits #dc comics #cassandra cain #canon vs fanon #heroesriseandfall #ableist language cw #dc #pit madness #fanon negative #i suppose

[kiragecko]

Who’s Tim’s nemesis?

There are characters that have a clear nemesis. I don't think Tim is one of them. But some possibilities:

King Snake/Sir Edmund Dorrance - tangled with Tim while he was still in training to become Robin, and was set up as one of Tim's most important villains for years. He's one of the main reasons Tim hates Paris. But he died in 2004 and hasn't really mattered since. Also, he mostly came into conflict with Tim through happenstance - even his one period of revenge eventually switched focus to Lady Shiva.

Ra's al Ghul - was only really focused on Tim after everyone in Tim's life started dying, but the Red Robin series definitely made a strong impression. Wants Tim as his right hand man/heir/ ... whatever would be fun to manipulate him into becoming.

The General/Anarky/Ulysses Hadrian Armstrong - this little monster and spoiled brat has the longevity to count as Tim's nemesis, but I'm not sure he ever QUITE separates himself from the pack. Tim hates him. He's caused Tim a moderate amount of trauma (burn scars across his neck and scalp, his first taste of the Red Robin costume, and a bunch of guilt over getting Ulysses's siblings killed). He's also given Tim a valuable asset (Lonnie Machin, the first Anarky). But he's a petty little brat and 'nemesis' is too grand of a title for him.

Damian or Jason - no. They really aren't. Nothing they're upset about is actually about Tim.

The Concepts of Neglect and Adultification - strong possibility. Boy's so in his head that it makes sense for his greatest foe to be in there with him.

Can y'all think of other possibilities? I admit that my knowledge of villains isn't very deep.

#I refuse to give lynx any space #she's not worth it #gecko's lists

[timdrakequotes]

Bruce: Robin, I’m still not certain that Sir Edmund Dorrance is alive. But someone has singled you out for vengeance. Maybe it’s Lynx. Maybe someone we don’t know. The best strategy is to keep you out of this until we know more about what’s going on. I’m asking you to trust me on this.

Robin: All right. I trust your judgment. But you have to promise me something.

Bruce: And that is?

Robin: You’ll listen to Alfred and at least call it a night and give yourself a chance to heal.

Bruce: Deal. Gordon can hold the line for one night.

Alfred: Well played, Robin.

--Tim Drake with Bruce Wayne and Alfred Pennyworth (Batman #468 – Shadow Box Part Two)

#Robin #Tim Drake #Red Robin #Bruce Wayne #Batman #Alfred Pennyworth #timdrakequotes

[ao3feed-brucewayne]

Cobblepot Junior

by TheRoyalSnake By chance, Oswald Cobblepot becomes a father with a girl from the Balkans. After 26 years and almost 7 years of traveling around the world, their son returns to the great crucible of crime that is Gotham to build his own criminal organization. Of course, all this with one goal: to keep the Cobblepot name at the top forever and no matter the cost. Words: 3943, Chapters: 1/1, Language: English Fandoms: Batman - All Media Types, DC Extended Universe, DCU (Comics), DCU Rating: General Audiences Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings Categories: Multi, Other Characters: Oswald Chesterfield Cobblepot Junior (OC), Oswald Cobblepot, Killer Croc, Catman (DCU), Lester Buchinsky, Edmund Dorrance, Drury Walker, Lynx I (DCU), Barbara Gordon, Jason Todd, Alfred Pennyworth, Rogues Gallery (Batman), Bruce Wayne, Jim Gordon, Kabuki Twins (DCU), Original Characters, Original Male Character(s), Harvey Dent, Harvey Bullock, Bane (DCU), Robin (DCU), Dick Grayson, Slade Wilson, Rose Wilson, Roman Sionis, Edward Nygma, Rupert Thorne, Victor Fries, Joker (DCU), Harley Quinn, Original Female Character(s) Additional Tags: Original Character(s), Major Original Character(s), POV Original Character, Organized Crime, Father-Son Relationship, POV Oswald Cobblepot, Criminal Masterminds, The Iceberg Lounge, Gotham City is Terrible, Crimes & Criminals, Dark Gotham City, Not Canon Compliant, Gangsters, Weapons, Biological Weapons, Chemical Weapons, Black Markets, Underworld, Gotham City Police Department, Building a Criminal Organization, Crime Scenes, Partners in Crime, Gang Wars, Anti-Hero via https://ift.tt/uG3oTvW

#IFTTT #bruce wayne #batman #the dark knight #the caped crusader #gotham #dcu #dc #ao3 #ao3feed

[out-of-context-batfam]

Robin (2021) #1

#I DONT THINK THATS THE ANSWER KING SNAKE WAS LOOKING FOR #OH I LOVE WHEN DAMIAN IS ACTING LIKE A LIL SHIT TO VILLAINS #ITS A LITTLE UNREALISTIC FOR DAMIAN TO KICK KING SNAKES ASS TBH #BRUCE HIMSELF STRUGGLED TO DEFEAT THAT MAN… IT TOOK SHIVA TO TAKE HIM DOWN #dc comics #batfam #batfamily #out of context #robin #Damian Wayne #king snake #Edmund dorrance #funny #dammit damian #lil shit #that’s not nice #I love you

[pokeberry5]

i really wanted lynx to kill king snake in war of the dragons

redesigned her look a little:

notes + ref below

alt:

i adapted the dialogue from 'tec #685

i thought lynx's outfit was boring here though and adapted the outfit from her earlier appearances (modified the leotard but kept the short hair. what's up with leotards in 90's comics??)

she also doesn't actually have a push dagger, but that was the only thing i could think of to make the panel work

i also used photos of current UFC strawweight division champion weili zhang as refs bc i wanted lynx to have that mma fighter build (i should also note that i don't believe king snake should have abs but he doesn't deserve a character sheet)

@deepwithintheabyss requested a panel redraw of the panels below, from DC vs Vampires, and this is not that lol -- but i did use them as refs!

#lynx #lynx dc #sir edmund dorrance #king snake #dc #sart #me every time i see king snake: why aren't you dead yet? #it's bc he's white #anyway thank you lynx for singlehandedly drawing me out of an art rut #making my slow way though tim's earlier appearances!! #if lynx does kill king snake eventually i havent gotten there yet #this was created bc i was so salty about the dynamic they established between king snake and lynx in war of the dragons #(altho she did end up fending batman off and taking over but STILL) #bring back their weird power dynamic from those like 2 panels when she realized king snake was terrified of robin

[sendasan]

Concept on what BTAS!Bane’s parents would look like (and bitty baby Bane on the side).

I’m not gonna draw how they hooked up together, ‘cause King Snake is such an unfun pain to draw.

#bane #btas #dc comics #king snake #edmund dorrance #batman the animated series #or eduardo dorrance for gotham bane wankers #my doodles #dcau

[zahri-melitor]

...oh comics. While correlating a bunch of dcuguide appearances I worked out Helena AND Babs AND Dick are all in Black Canary Vol 2 #10, so of course I had to look at this proto-Birds of Prey comic, because you know, 1992! Before the first BoP line up! But Babs is now Oracle! Surely there is some interesting material they later mined. Well. That was uh definitely a story. And has killed any desire of mine to read the rest of Black Canary Vol 2.

#me prior to reading this issue: the part of BoP I would most like to remove from my memory is the Ra's romance plot #me now: I don't even know where to start with outlining the problems going on in this issue but I'm very happy to excise it from BoP #which is a pity! #I like all these characters and I like them together! #I just don't need the white slavery storyline going on here #let's stick with Dinah facing off against Lynx as the first BoP team up #Lynx I'm used to reading as written less racistly #secretly well written Lynx in my brain makes fun of Edmund Dorrance by playing up the Dragon Lady near him #she does it to manipulate expectations #dc

[mzminola]

Tim’s choice to walk away from Lady Shiva & King Snake (Edmund Dorrance) at the end of the Robin 1991 five-issue mini is just so fucking interesting to me.

Tim’s spent significant time this arc with Shiva training him, most of which is her kicking the shit out of him. Dorrance was planning to unleash a bio-weapon on Hong Kong, which Tim stops. Dorrance has killed Clyde Rawlins, the other adult who helped Tim stop the bio-weapon, who was primarily on a revenge quest.

Tim has an injured rib by the end of the fight, but manages to kick Dorrance through a window so he’s hanging onto a walkway. Which is when Shiva shows up; she made it clear to Tim & Rawlins at the start of this that her goal is to find King Snake and kill him just because he’s a very skilled martial artist.

And we get this exchange:

Shiva: “Kill him, little bird. Kill him and become a predator.” Tim: “I thought you wanted to kill him, Shiva. You wanted to be the baddest of the bad. Shiva: “But I will be killing him. Aren’t you my weapon? My instrument of death? Say you are mine.” Tim: “No.”

And Tim just...turns and walks back inside. Half-glancing over his shoulder at a loud “Nooooooo” from Dorrance, with Tim’s narration box saying “Fifty stories is a long way to fall.”

Tim doesn’t try to stop Lady Shiva from killing Dorrance. He doesn’t even protest, say Dorrance is defeated, so why kill him, etc. He just quietly says “No” and walks away. Then he carries Rawlins’ body out of the building despite the pain in his ribs. The trio has saved the day, but the tone is forlorn and melancholy.

It felt very different from the superhero comics I’m used to, and it’s not much later that we will see Tim going up against impossible odds to rescue even villains.

But right here, at the end of this arc, when Tim is tired, injured, far from home, heartsick over Rawlins’ death, facing down a woman he 100% knows he cannot win against, who only wants to kill one man who would have killed an entire city...

Tim walks away.

#we'll find out later Shiva just kicked Dorrance down one story to the next walkway level and made fun of him #but that's not really relevant #Tim Drake #Robin 1991 #or is it #Robin I #? #DC #Batfam #Robin #comics meta #this whole moment just really interests me #what do you want? what are your goals? what will you compromise?