#I love the *characters* in Supergirl—the same characters that the showrunners have the tendency to sideline and discount

[riyalizations]

Oh no, I’m so sorry that you think the showrunners were offended after the fans “bullied” them for bringing back a character who was literally modeled after a producer that was fired for sexual harassment.

I’m so sorry that the showrunners were personally hurt because the fans are calling out their continuous sidelining of POC characters, lack of respect for non-male characters, and total silencing of LGBT characters.

I’m so sorry that the showrunners faced great pain upon hearing that people were upset about the return of a character who’s time even non-Supercorp fans say is over (as evidenced by articles by large sources—such as The AV Club—talking about Supergirl’s “Mon-El problem”)

I’m so sorry that the showrunners are heartbroken because the fans used the trending “NO MORE MONEL” as a legitimate way to explain why they don’t want him back, adding substantial and valid explanations with their tweets.

The showrunners couldn’t give less of a shit of what the fans say—even if they’re supposedly “bullied”. If they did, we would have a proper reveal scene between Alex and Kelly. We’d have Kara act in character at the end of the 100th episode instead of completely breaking out of her arc. We’d have a meaningful and complex villain instead of goddamn Lex Luthor again.

And fans have the absolute right to speak up about this. Young women are recounting how they laughed along to Mon-El’s misogynistic jokes, internalizing that it was okay to say things like that and not unlearning that negativity till far later. People are upset, and they have every right to be.

Honestly, I didn’t even participate in this tag. I think the character of Mon-El was woefully misused—it’s why I like writing him as a himbo and supportive wingman in my fics. I think he had an incredible amount of potential, and I really like the idea of him; it’s just that the execution was completely and utterly flawed. But I admire how the fans took initiative to do something like this.

This isn’t a ship wars thing or whatever. This is a substantial group of people who have genuine qualms against the usage and harmful behavior of a character. I don’t care if you’re blatantly for or against Supercorp—that shouldn’t matter. Realize that people’s dislike for a character is rooted in something far more substantial than petty ship wars.

Fans are allowed to criticize. They’re allowed to have negative opinions. And they’re allowed to voice them. Supergirl is a show that has long suffered from bad writing, even outside this instance. It refuses to put emphasis on its more meaningful characters, instead time and time again, centering characters who have no positive impact in being centered. When a clear mass of fans finally speak their mind on it through a tag like ‘NO MORE MONEL’, you can’t be upset about it. And if you disagree, then go start your own tag, but don’t jump on people for actually speaking out for what they believe in.

#just because I love Supergirl doesn’t mean I can’t acknowledge how bad the writing is #I love the *characters* in Supergirl—the same characters that the showrunners have the tendency to sideline and discount #Y’all are complaining that the showrunners are being ‘bullied’ and we’re throwing a ‘tantrum’ when in reality: #we’re speaking out against a valid concern and the showrunners couldn’t give less of a shit #stop defending every criticism of Mon-El just because you don’t like Supercorp and take a step back #maybe see why and how people are criticizing him instead of just hurtling into outrage and blind defense #it’s not wrong to speak out at the showrunners with an issue you have with the show itself #that’s literally what they’re there to do: run the show #if you can’t make your feelings known to them #then who can you actually say these things to? #TLDR stop saying that every valid criticism is a Supercorp tantrum when in reality you just want to bring ship wars into this #also if you respond with some aggressive bullshit I’m blocking you #I don’t have the fucking energy for this shit #supercorp #lena luthor #supergirl #kara danvers #kara x lena #no more monel #kat’s supercorp rants

[afterglowlws]

Rant time. Something that bothers me about Supergirl is how they tell us how we should feel, without actually putting in the work to make us feel that way.

They did it first with MonHell. They gave him one of the worst introductions on the show and I assume thought people would get over his awful tendencies because he provided a bit of comic relief here and there. Then when they realized that didn’t work, they tried to bring him back from the future as some ‘reformed’ guy, but never had him do anything to prove it. They just told us ‘hey you should like him now he’s better’ when in fact he was not better, and had done nothing worthy of redemption. And this is all while they were still baiting Supercorp and then turning around and being like ‘why don’t people like K*ramel? 😥’

They did it with William too. He started off as an absolute asshole, and then they randomly said ‘oh haha it’s actually just an act’ and then just expected us to like him. He did nothing to make up for the awful things he did and continues to give everyone really weird vibes, but we are supposed to like him because they said so. And because ‘staz is just such a great guy in real life’ as if that’s relevent to anything? And once again, they baited Supercorp throughout his entire time on the show and then wondered why people responded so badly to him and his crush on Kara.

They did it with Dansen too. They gave them hardly any build up, and then once they got together there was barley any follow through. They don’t get the development that the straight relationships have gotten, they don’t even get the same screen time sanvers did (which was still pretty minimal). We barley get to see them kiss, be affectionate, have milestone moments, etc. We didn’t even get to see Kelly find out Kara’s identity when we’ve gotten to see it from all the other characters. We’re told ‘you shouldn’t worry about Supercorp because you have Dansen right there’ when in reality Dansen is barley shown at all.

They’ve also done it with Lex for way too long now. At first people were very excited to meet the iconic Lex Luthor. They were excited to see Lena’s dynamic with him and get some good Luthor family drama and backstory. And then we got it and it was great! And we fell in love with Jon Cryer! But then we got it again, and again, and again, and again. We kept getting his same recycled storylines over and over until we were just sick of seeing his character. Yet we’re just told we’re supposed to like him because he’s such a good villain, but once again they’ve done nothing to keep his character interesting enough for us to want him to stay. Notice how people love Alice on Batwoman even though she’s been a non stop villain? It’s because they have shown us her evolution time and time again, and have shown us through action (not words) why we should sympathize with her. And they also didn’t let her story take over Kates, because Kate was the main character. They didn’t tell us how we should feel about her, they showed us what we should feel about her.

I’m just very tired of the fandom being labeled dramatic or bitter for daring to call the writers / showrunners out on their lazy tendencies. Don’t tell me how to feel, show me why I’m supposed to feel that way. Make me like the character / relationship organically by making it likable. Not every character / relationship has to be toxic for the sake of drama. Seeing healthy practices displayed is much more satisfying to watch and I’m very tired of being told I should ignore toxicity because it somehow adds to the drama. If they do start out toxic, show me why they aren’t anymore. Don’t tell me. Show me.

#supercorp #supergirl #lena luthor #kara danvers #kara x lena #kara zor el

[softlenaluthor]

Hello, I wanted to share the Supercorp hill I have chosen to die on:

Because I keep reading fics where Kara and/or Lena are stupidly in love with each other and that’s totally cute and all but I have chosen oblivion and I cannot change my mind. Long post because I added screencaps and gifs because I can. Also can I just say that I’m pretty excited that I finally have A Thing again that is making me write such long posts? It’s been ages!

Here’s what I think is going on:

Lena knows, from the moment they’ve met, that there was a playful, flirty attraction she felt for Kara, but decided not to act upon it when it developed in the closest friendship she’s ever had. Her relationship with Kara almost became something sacred to her, Kara became her inspiration that people could still be genuine.

But you cannot change my mind about the fact that literally the second Lena laid eyes on Kara, she 100% knew that there was attraction. If it were any other place, maybe she would have even gone for it. Or at the very least, tried to figure out if Kara felt the same. I mean, look at the way she looked at Kara when jumped into the conversation and suddenly became all smiles:

For me, that also scene establishes for me how great Lena is at what she does. As a woman in a position of power, it’s inevitable that she needs to understand which questions to ask, which buttons to push and which playful, flirtatious jokes to say (to men), like the remark she made at Clark in this scene. It seems to come naturally to her.

However, her interactions with Kara felt different to me from the start. I probably still would’ve shipped it if Kara was a man, even if I’m sounding like I’m chalking it up to - if I were to put it bluntly: Lena needs to be flirtatious to men.

Kara almost looks like she isn’t quite part of this conversation, but Lena is quick to make it clear that she is just as interested in Kara, if not more:

I feel like after it became apparent that Lena and Kara were slowly becoming friends, it Lena just sort of shoved it to the back of her mind where she almost forgot about it as their relationship developed, and yet she couldn’t always avoid lingering glances, lip bites and blushes, and her tendencies to wear something that Kara might like. Holy shit that dress.

All in all, her relationship with Kara became more valuable to her than whatever it is that she felt for the other woman, which is why she never allowed herself to spare it much thought, though her body language failed to receive the message.

What pushed her over the edge is definitely Kara’s revelation, and the betrayal she felt as suddenly, Kara Danvers suddenly wasn’t someone who felt real to her anymore. Sure, Lena’s Achilles heel is betrayal, but she must realize that with Kara, it suddenly feels a thousand times worse. And why? She’s going to start knowing why. I believe Katie McGrath once mentioned that the one thing that’s going to save Kara and Lena’s relationship is one of them taking a big leap. I think that leap is going to turn into endgame. They’re both going to realize that they have feelings for one another, but one of them is going to take the chance, probably Kara, and then Lena will finally allow herself to realize the same. I speak that into existence. I’ve planted that seed and I will see the harvest.

As for Kara, she doesn’t know that she’s in love with Lena. Sure, she understands the happiness and warmth that she feels when she’s around her and she knows she’d do anything to keep her safe and stand in her corner, but she genuinely thinks that it’s because Lena is simply the Best Friend in the Whole Universe that she’s ever had and also, it’s kind of Kara’s thing to be loyal.

I haven’t seen Supergirl season 1, but I believe that people describe Kara’s reaction to Alex coming out to her like, “oh, I didn’t know that was an option.” Kara’s next realization is going to be, “oh, I didn’t know dating Lena was an option.”

For a while, I think she’s going to continue brooding and sulking a bit over the loss of Lena, but she too will reach a point where she’s going to realize that there’s a reason why she’s missing Lena so much, and why she was so terrified of telling her about her identity. There’s a reason why she felt happier, lighter, and stronger, after she told Lena and convinced herself that Lena was okay with it. And she will get that feeling again, because Kara and Lena will find their way back to each other. Lena just needs to know and understand that Kara is still who she is, and that their relationship wasn’t all a lie. Hence, why I think Kara will take the leap and perform the big gesture.

Also, the show keeps hinting at Kara and Lena being...something. Dare I say endgame? They’re not in your face about it (like all shows with a usually M/F endgame couple), but they’re giving off enough hints that even a neutral viewer can fill in the gaps. A character describing the betrayal “she broke my heart”, words that someone wouldn’t usually say about a platonic friend? Check. Romantic music with relatable song lyrics? Check. An alternate universe in which character’s motivations are shifted, and yet they make sure to specifically mention that this universe’s Lena is Supergirl’s biggest supporter? Check. I feel like they’re testing the waters and while I wish that they just had the guts to say “fuck it, they’re endgame” like Naughty Dog said “fuck y’all, Ellie is gay and there’s nothing any of y’all homophobes can do to stop it here’s a 5 min video of her kissing a woman” I guess it’s up to us to send them a message back: ya, we dig it, we want it, we’ll give you clout.

If they weren’t such cowards they would simply let Kara meet a Lena from a different universe and they would be wives and that would make Kara realize that there’s something there worth exploring with her Lena.

God, I’m so glad that they didn’t wipe Lena’s memories. They need to wade through all this shit but I truly believe they’re going to come out of it stronger they’ve ever been and they will both have girlfriends, as they will be each other’s girlfriends.

If not, and the SG showrunners are literally just using Supercorp for attention (which I’m starting to doubt more and more since news outlets are also beginning to speak up about them) then I will consider this queerbaiting betrayal of the highest order and I will take that resentment to my grave. Because I have eyes and common sense, and at this point it’s damn near impossible to say that Kara and Lena aren’t supposed to end up together.

#guys it's been so long since i've been so invested in something i'm.....glad #supergirl #supercorp #i wish i could be as into b99 as i used to be #but b99 is still thriving so i'll just appreciate it from afar :) #sg please don't turn into whatever xena mess occurred #xena was before my time but whatever happened that shit must have hurted #also the clexa thing #sc please be better

[bigskydreaming]

@seekingxanadu​

LOL I think you and I aren’t likely to ever agree on the subject of Jason’s role in the show, xanadu, as I actually like him being present and would enjoy seeing him end up more integrated into the team in the future. Yeah, there are a lot more classic Titans that they still haven’t gotten to, but IMO there’s a lot of reasons for that (like Wally and Roy currently being used elsewhere, Vic with the Doom Patrol, others perhaps ‘on hold’ because there’s always any number of projects or potential projects in the works that aren’t even announced to the public yet, etc).

Personally, I think its likely Jason’s role in the show and mythology has been expanded instead of introducing more Titans in his place for the same reason Hawk and Dove are here despite never being hugely present in Titans stories for the most part: they’re cheap.

Like tbh, that plays SO much more of a role than most people realize with shows like this, where budget concerns are constantly an issue, and special effects tend to carry the highest price tags. As far as the showrunners are likely concerned, the more they can bring in non-powered characters and give them screentime, the better....because it saves money.

For that matter, superhero projects belonging to the various live action shared universes love to cheat special effects whenever and wherever possible....and roster choices are absolutely made with an eye towards if any existing properties produced by the same companies have special effects that can be repurposed and used with other characters. Like, creating the special effect for the first time tends to be the most expensive part by far, whereas its often relatively simple and cheap to reuse it in a variety of ways....so they all like to do this as much as possible.

Just as an example, take the X-Men movies (sorry if they’re unfamiliar to you, they’re just the instances I can speak to as a sure example of this).....to most people, a LOT of the mutant characters used in the various films seem random as hell....like Azazel in First Class, and Sunspot in DOFP, etc. Thing is...those two and other characters were picked primarily because of the special effects. Azazel’s similarities to Nightcrawler wasn’t a coincidence, it was the point. The studio already had the special effect they’d created for Kurt’s teleportation power signature, and it’d been easily one of the most positively received and talked about special effects of the original trilogy....so they wanted to use it more. Cheap and easy, compared to making new ones for characters with entirely different powers. So by making Azazel one of the primary villains, they just used Kurt’s special effects and gave it a slightly different tint. Same thing with Riptide, Shaw’s other henchman in that movie....totally random choice given he’s never been remotely associated with the Hellfire Club and what they showed in the movie isn’t even really how his powers work in the comics...but the way they portrayed him in the movies allowed them to reuse some of the tornado effects they’d created for Storm in the original trilogy. Havok’s power displays were just repackaged versions of Cyclops’ special effects, and for Sunspot in DOFP they just reused stuff they’d developed in the original trilogy for Pyro...even though again, what Sunspot was shown doing in that movie isn’t remotely how his power works in the comics.

So like....this is a very very big consideration for studios with any and all superhero projects, both film and TV...its why WB picks nonpowered characters to center TV projects around whenever possible, like Arrow and Batwoman and the reason Hawk and Dove were referenced as being looked at for a possible spin-off pretty much since Titans started...and its not a coincidence that the Flash was the first superpowered character they chose to expand their TV universe with, as superspeed has always been one of the cheaper effects to create (its also why Smallville utilized Clark’s superspeed even more often than it did his superstrength). Same thing why when picking another ‘powered hero’ to add to Arrow early on, they went with Ray Palmer and gave him basically just an Iron Man style suit to start...because even when they eventually had him develop his shrinking power....again, super cheap. Size changing effects just involve shooting a lot of different takes using scale models or messing with proportions in post. Compared to what’s required for a lot of DC’s more high profile heroes....that costs nothing to do.

Odds are, Jason was originally introduced in S1 purely because they could use him to advance Dick’s solo storylines in ways very few other characters could allow for, given a key point of Dick’s story arc in becoming Nightwing over the course of two seasons has revolved around touching on where he’s been and come from, and how he’s now grown past that. To really make the most of that, you need something connected to his past, to Batman, and given its notoriously difficult and complicated to secure approval to use Bruce in any and all live action projects, with the sheer volume of different people you need to get on board with it....Jason was a much easier alternative.

And then once he was relatively well received, they jumped on the chance to expand his role because he enabled them to expand their core cast of characters without dramatically inflating their budget at the same time. Just like that’s why Hank and Dawn were never going anywhere any time soon.

So tbh....he’s very likely not taking anything away from any other Titans’ chances of appearing...since the same hurdles and reasons to take it slow are still there for a lot of the other characters. After Arrow ends, it might be a different story with that freeing up Roy to start making appearances...and who knows with Wally because even though he plays an entirely different version of Wally, bet you anything they’re waiting to be sure Keiynan is definitively done playing Kid Flash or the Flash show is for sure never going to bring him back, before considering either Wally for use elsewhere. Like, I know he already said he was done playing Wally but actors change their minds, so I doubt anyone in the studios took that as an immediate green-light to launch a new Wally project elsewhere.

This almost certainly played a factor in their killing off Garth in just his first appearance....water effects are notoriously hard to make look convincing, and this one’s on the writers too given that I bet people in the writers’ room in general weren’t pushing really hard to make Garth a core character for the show....a lot of TV writers reeeeeally hate trying to write for characters who are intrinsically affiliated with say, the ocean, if they’re not otherwise an ocean-themed show already.....because its just another version of why a lot of comic book writers say they have a hard time showcasing Arthur in JLA books, due to a lot of his most thematic abilities being so location dependent. (I mean, personally I say in both cases this is just a lack of imagination and not a good excuse for not using Garth or Arthur more, lol, but like, it is what it is. This tendency among writers as is still already exists).

And the DC expanded universe and which production companies are affiliated with which properties and studios and stations and all that is a huge complicated mess, so I’m not even going to try tracing the connections to verify for sure, but I’d be willing to bet Titans has access to either some of Supergirl’s special effects or some of Superman’s movie special effects or both (or possibly just to Superman special effects developed for various projects that have come and gone over the years without ever making it to completion). Either way, bet you anything that has as much to do with the decision to introduce Superboy into this particular ensemble, as does just them wanting to have a Super-family character in the mix and Superboy was next on the list, not already being used elsewhere.

*Shrugs* But yeah. Never underestimate the power of the dime even with something as fundamental as picking a core roster. Actually, ESPECIALLY with something that fundamental, since that’s the foundation any and all budget concerns spring from. As much as I love the original Judas Contract storyline, I’m not at all bothered to see Rose kinda shoehorned into Terra’s role in a truncated variation of it here....because first, that story’s been adapted a ton in a variety of different ways, so its not really a huge loss to not have it fully adapted again, but second.....its less likely that Rose took Terra’s role here and more likely that Terra was never remotely an option for the show given how ridiculously expensive her powers would be to render well....so they looked at what else they could make fit a similar role and decided hey, why not bring Rose into this as well, even though she’s not primarily associated with this generation of characters?

And Joey was obviously always a strong candidate to add to the cast as early as this, of course. My bet is other than possibly Roy, depending on WB’s overall plans for him, like, I would guess the next most likely Titans to show up/be added to the cast are Lilith, Mal and/or Karen. Telepathy’s cheap and easy to gimmick up some power signature for.....tbh, I wouldn’t be surprised if the only reason Lil HASN’T shown up yet is because they’ve been saving her for after the Jericho storyline is done, given that her powers would cut through all the stakes and suspense and reveal Joey was riding shotgun in Slade’s head from the very first time the Titans encountered Deathstroke this season. For that matter, it’d be extremely difficult to write her as not sensing the sheer chaos going through Dick’s mind this entire season and cutting off that storyline early, and it does seem they’ve known exactly where they wanted to go with Dick this whole time so I can easily see them having decided early on they viewed this as a necessary part of his evolution into Nightwing, and Lil’s mere presence would throw a spanner in those works.

And as for Mal and Karen, again, the shrinking powerset is relatively easy to pull off and its likely more just not wanting to invest in Karen’s suit/flight just yet that’s been the delay there, and Mal’s sonic powers OR his teleportation powers are both relatively easy and cheap.

And of course, other non-powered characters not usually affiliated with the Titans are always a possibility. I’d put money on freaking Golden Eagle being a more likely contender to show up than some of the other powered Titans, for that matter.

Anyway, just my industry take on the matter in general, lol. You know I’d always be for Jason as a Titan as I think he would have ended up one eventually if he hadn’t died when he did, and I’d love to have just one adaptation that doesn’t stick to his death and Red Hood storyline. He doesn’t need it to be an interesting character, just good writing. Its not like Bruce or Dick are definitively chained to one specific storyline outside of their own origin stories, so no reason Jason should have to be either. (And honestly, in line with everything I was talking about here......IMO the nonpowered characters are always a degree safer from being killed off than the powered characters. Doesn’t mean they’re ever totally safe, and it doesn’t mean the show’s necessarily ‘at capacity’ for powered/expensive characters already, but at a certain point the cast list likely will end up sticking with just the powered characters they have until one of those powered characters is killed or otherwise written off...before adding another ‘expensive’ character to take their place.)

But yeah, anyway, lol. Don’t know if that might make you a little more positively inclined to Jason taking up a slot on the show....all things considered, I truly doubt that it was ever a case of them picking to make Jason a series regular OVER adding another classic Titans character in that place instead. It really is more likely IMO that the cast list we have this season was more or less already otherwise in place and they just looked at things and said “we can’t really afford to introduce an additional character on top of the other ones we want to add already this season, like Joey, Slade, etc, and especially not one with special effects heavy powers...BUT we can bring Jason in as more of a presence in the ensemble and bump him up to series regular without too much trouble.”