#I mean same zuko

[theotterpenguin]

the performative accusation that shipping zutara (and occasionally this criticism is levied at jinko/zukka) is colonialist apologism has been addressed in some excellent posts, explaining the inaccuracies and problematic implications of this logic far better than i ever could - like this post and this one and this one and this one and this one.

and i know this topic has been talked about to death, but if you could indulge my contribution for a moment, i just find it interesting how this sentiment results from the cognitive dissonance of atla fans being unable to reconcile with the idea of their favorite show's political beliefs not lining up with their own.

atla is a largely philosophical children's show that at its core deals with themes of love, redemption, and destiny vs. free-will. atla examines these themes through an anti-colonalist, anti-imperalist lens that deconstructs the idea of racial divisiveness and the idea that people of different ethnicities are inherently different. this is message is pretty explicitly stated by guru pathik:

Guru Pathik: "The greatest illusion of this world is the illusion of separation. Things you think are separate and different are actually one and the same." Aang: "Like the four nations?" Guru Pathik: "Yes. We are all one people. But we live as if divided."

and also by uncle iroh:

"It is important to draw wisdom from many different places. If you take it from only one place, it becomes rigid and stale. Understanding others, the other elements and the other nations will help you become whole."

this theme is developed across three full seasons, with the crux of this message culminating in zuko's friendships with the gaang - despite coming from different nationalities and different backgrounds, they have all had their own experiences being hurt by the fire nation and work together to take down the oppressive fire nation government. the question of destiny vs. free will is also explored through zuko's character - despite starting off as an antagonist, he develops into a symbolic representation of how the fire nation's oppression hurts its own citizens. he unlearns the fire nation's imperialist propaganda while simultaneously unlearning his father's abuse. rather than following misguided beliefs of what he thought his destiny was as the heir to the throne, instead he forges his own path.

thus, to claim that zuko can never form a deep and meaningful relationship with any of the gaang because of his nationality goes unequivocally against the themes of the show. and a major part of this is because these are fictional characters being used to analyze different theoretical questions within the show and in some cases, are used as symbolic representations of different philosophical ideas - their friendships and their character arcs serve a purpose within the text that cannot be easily transcribed onto real-life dynamics between people.

it's illogical to criticize fans who are choosing to understand atla at the level of the themes that are presented by the text - who are interested in exploring similar philosophical questions brought up by the show through the context of relationships.

if you don't like the themes of forgiveness and redemption that atla explores, your criticism should be aimed at the writing of the show itself rather than other fans. because you are giving far more thought to the "implications" of a close friendship or romantic relationship between someone from an imperalist nation and someone from an oppressed nation than the writers ever did. (and if you fall in this camp of people, i would hope you wouldn't be reblogging fanart of zuko and the gaang together while simultaneously claiming zuko could can never escape the sins of his ancestors and can never form a deep relationship based on trust and intimacy with katara or sokka or jin - because that would just be hypocritical).

and as a side note, people seem to apply this flawed logic to zutara far more than other ships solely because the show spends the most time exploring the complicated nature of fire nation imperalism in the interactions between zuko and katara in the latter half of b3. this is because they've been juxtapositioned against each other and paralleled with aang since the beginning of the show in ways that toph, sokka, and suki are not, who have mostly been used to examine different themes. there simply isn't enough time to explore these complicated themes with all the other characters, even if they theoretically exist in zuko’s dynamics with these characters, so the writers focus the most on zuko's relationships with katara and aang, and these relationships are given far more narrative weight, so have more content to criticize. but zuko and katara also canonically become friends by the end of the show. if you want to discount the existence of their friendship, claiming that it will always be tainted by the fire nation's oppression regardless of what is shown in the text, then you also have to discount zuko's friendships with aang, suki, toph, and sokka - because even if this isn't shown as a permanent barrier to their friendships in the show, it’s also not shown as a permanent barrier to his friendship with katara. if your logic is solely based on the idea that a person's identity in a relationship as a colonizer or a victim is fixed and unchanging regardless of character development, this would apply to zuko's friendships with everyone else as well.

#zuko #katara #zutara #i have seen people say that the zutara dynamic makes them personally uncomfortable and that's fine - to each their own! #but it's hypocritical to only dislike zuko's relationship with katara while simultaneously exalting his friendships w aang or toph or sokka #just because the show doesn’t take as much time to explore these issues with other characters doesn’t mean the same dynamic doesn’t apply #my post #my meta

[sam-crevellari]

Am I blatantly being zutarabaited by the new Netflix's Avatar The Last Airbender? Yes

Will I enjoy any crumb I'm being fed as if it were the most exquisite banquet? OF FUCKING COURSE, YES

#listen i don't think they will make it canon. i made my peace with it ages ago #however #that doesn't mean i can't enjoy new content of the ship i have since i was a child #i love them and i still think the ship made a lot of sense #thematically and aesthetically #they mirrored each other so well!!! #they complemented each other in a way rhat made my child self SCREAM #(in the same way i screamed with the scarf scene) #i dont want ship wars #i only want to enjoy my crumbs in peace #zutara #atla #natla #natla spoilers #netflix atla #netflix avatar #zuko #katara #prince zuko #master katara #frothing at the mouth

[comradekatara]

How conscious do you think Katara of Sokka's pile of neurosis surrounding her safety, their father, or the tribe in general?

Basically, how well do you think Katara understands her brother?

[thinks about my own incredibly weird, callous, prodigious, neurotic brother] does anyone truly understand their brother?

just kidding. sort of. i mean, this is a really difficult question to answer, because as i've already stated, sokka doesn't actually understand himself. and katara doesn't really understand other people very well in general. she has a deep, presiding love for humanity that accords her warmth and nobility, but she also has a pretty rigid way of conceptualizing any sort of moral quandary (she is in the eighth grade) and often misinterprets people's motivations and subconscious desires. (very dorothea brooke core)

for example, in "the painted lady," when katara says, "oh, sokka, you really do have a heart!" she's only partially joking, right? like she genuinely doesn't understand how he can be so "cold" and callous." she doesn't understand his point of view at all, she thinks he just doesn't care. and sokka could probably do a better job of explaining his point of view, granted, but i also understand why he's given up trying to reason with her, because she does not listen to him unless they are in grave danger (at which point she forgets that he is her stupid annoying brother and places all her faith in him lol).

so we, as an attentive audience, know that sokka cares about the wellbeing of impoverished villages destroyed by the fire nation, because we remember the first couple episodes wherein he was prepared to die defending his impoverished village that was destroyed by the fire nation, and we also remember his promise to prioritize katara's safety over the war at large, so we are not surprised when he says, "you need me and i'll never turn my back on you" (the sokka thesis statement). but katara doesn't really understand how much she means to sokka, or how sokka thinks, or how sokka sees himself, or how sokka sees their father, or anything beyond what sokka is willing to show her regarding his psyche, which is ultimately very little.

and it's not katara's fault, to be clear. katara is not a bad sister for not attempting to plumb the depths of sokka's twisted mind. even if she wanted to (which, who would tbh. don't look at me) sokka does not let her. being vulnerable with her (truly vulnerable, not just "i can't make things fly around woe is me") would go against sokka's core programming. protecting katara doesn't just mean protecting her physically (dying for her, attacking anyone who hurts her even if it's aang and he really didn't mean to, etc.) but also emotionally – protecting her innocence, her naïveté, her idealism.

like he'll say shit like "optimism and wonder are cringe and you're a loser for having love in your heart," but it's still so flippant, it's clear that he doesn't consider "provoking/annoying her" and "protecting her" to be mutually exclusive (frankly, anyone who doesn't succumb to the urge to provoke their siblings is simply not human and cannot be trusted) and has no problem criticizing her when he thinks that she's wrong for whatever reason, but he also avoids being vulnerable with her and uses flippancy and deflection to mask his more honest feelings most of the time.

notice how he basically completely shuts down in "the southern raiders," how even though he is standing there the entire time katara and aang are arguing, he says exactly one sentence and lets aang say literally everything else. notice how in the pilot he calls her a freak for waterbending instead of communicating either jealousy that she can do something he can't or fear that her ability will get her killed (again, it's probably a combination of both, but does he even understand that? probably not. because he refuses to introspect). which is why "you need me and i'll never turn my back on you" or even his admission in "sokka's master" that he feels insecure about being a nonbender shocks her so much.

katara and sokka's codependency is mutual, and they love each other a lot. while sokka isn't katara's first priority and entire identity the way katara is for sokka, when sokka is spirited away in "the winter solstice," katara basically shuts down, clings to his boomerang with a blanket around her shoulders and refuses to move from the spot he was taken until he gets back, and when sokka is gone for the day in "sokka's master," she spends the whole day waiting for him to return. and like, both of these take place in the span of no longer than a single day. but as much as they love and need each other, they also do not really understand each other, or themselves.

i would say that sokka understands katara better than katara understands sokka, but sokka also just understands people better than katara does, so that's not really surprising. for example, he knows that she would not benefit from killing yon rha before katara realizes it (and unlike aang, he is not a pacifist). but he does have some blindspots, like how he doesn't understand why she wouldn't want to see hakoda in ba sing se (he interprets it as a purely selfless act, which it just isn't), but again, that's more of a daddy issues blindspot than a sister issues blindspot. they also just have very different worldviews. katara primarily cares about individuals whereas sokka primarily sees systems (with the necessary caveat that he still prioritizes his family), katara sees the best in people whereas sokka sees the worst in people, katara misses the forest for the trees whereas sokka misses the trees for the forest yada yada.

but what's important to understand fundamentally is that katara and sokka have both been dehumanized by the fn imperialist project (true of every atla character, btw) and so their lack of self-knowledge stems from the formative trauma of cultural genocide. those gaps in understanding originate from the roles they have been forced to inhabit, and since sokka's entire identity revolves around what he can and must sacrifice for katara, it's understandable that katara would be unable to acknowledge or even recognize that.

and then again, even beyond the inherent tragedy of their situation, no fourteen year old little sister really understands the neuroses and contradictions and lamentations of her older brother. even if he wore his heart on his sleeve she wouldn't understand him, because katara does encounter plenty of people who are far more obvious about their intentions and she doesn't really understand them either. but she means well. and that's what matters <3

#the-wright #asks #katara&sokka #katara #sokka #analysis #i think the person who understands sokka the best is toph actually #at least by the end of the show #god i love katara so much #calling her dorothea brooke core made me rly emotional? lol #like she doesnt really understand but it doesnt matter because she loves she so deeply and cares so much!!!! #her enduring faith and love and sense of justice for her fellow man........ oh boy :'') #also i have a post in my drafts that i never published bc i still havent really figured out how to phrase it #about how when katara is mean to sokka she thinks she is 'punching up' in the same way zuko treats azula #i have a lot of drafts... #anyway. theyre insane or whatever

[descendant-of-truth]

I never really thought about this until now, but. why did Aang never express any opinions on Azula whatsoever after she literally killed him

Like, am I supposed to believe that he's not deeply afraid of her after that? Or at least angry? She left a scar on his back that interrupts his culturally significant tattoos, and we just... never see him notice or care about that??

I'm currently about halfway through Book 3 on my rewatch, and the fact that nobody's even told Aang on-screen that Azula was responsible for what happened is more than a little absurd. I'm pretty sure they acknowledge it at some point, but in some kind of offhanded way that really doesn't do the matter justice.

It honestly feels like the show didn't want to touch that plot point with a ten foot pole, only mentioning it when it was absolutely necessary to further the plot on Zuko's side of things. Which is weird! Why kill your protagonist on-screen, leave him with two permanent scars when he's revived, and then never have him confront or even talk about the person who killed him again???

Aang deserved to have a significant dynamic with Azula after what happened at the Crystal Catacombs and the fact that they dropped the topic almost entirely two episodes later lowkey fills me with rage

#avatar the last airbender #atla #aang #azula #analysis #meta #Not sure if this really counts as an analysis but I'm tagging it anyway #Also by 'two episodes later' I mean the second episode of Book 3 #Can you imagine it?? the intrigue?? the parallels with Zuko over being scarred by the Fire Nation royal family??? #If the Netflix version gets this far and keeps the same plot point at the end of Book 2 #then this is absolutely what I want them to expand upon afterwards

[anti-spop]

the way stans expect adora to be catra's caretaker (or older sister) reminds me of how some ppl demand zuko to take care of azula post-atla, despite the fact she abused and manipulated him. like yeah, it would be nice if zuko and azula could be siblings without their father pitting them against each other, but there's so much baggage here, zuko doesn't owe azula anything. and that also counts for adora and catra.

#i post #spop critical #yeah the way ppl downplay azula abusing zuko bothers me a lot #everyone treats it like a joke #the same way everyone treats 'hey adora' like a joke #or catra insulting adora overall like a joke #like honestly i feel like ppl don't take sibling abuse srsly #you always see literal abuse being treated like 'sibling culture' #i mean sure sibling relationships can be chaotic #but sometimes ppl don't know the difference between that and literal abuse #abuse tw

[yourhighness6]

Saw a shitpost about how the steambabies would be airbenders because of the elements mixing and all I could think was that it was the ultimate ex's revenge

#atla #avatar the last airbender #zutara #katara x zuko #zuko x katara #steambabies #no but can you imagine #everyone would loose their fucking minds #by which I mean katara would be in shock #zuko would probably be pissed for a few days but want to support his kids and eventually get over it #sokka would laugh his ass of once he heard #so would toph #suki would do the same a little more sympathetically #aang would try to play it cool and internally be like “oh fuck shit did I accidentally mess with the spirit world again” #not that aang swears internally

[bluespiritshonour]

Today in my full updo Zuko propaganda:

Zuko's a carbon copy of his father plus the scar. Now, the half-updo made Ozai look real fine. Adult Zuko grew into his father's features—he real fine too, like his father—he dresses like him (duh!)—he sure as hell ain't gonna wear his hair like him. 😤

Has anyone got fics where Zuko hates that he looks like his father? And honestly, that would affect his feelings about the scar. Him being grateful for it would be so fucked up and he'd know it too.

#zuko #atla #avatar the last airbender #fire lord zuko #kinda thinking how uncle should've been regent for at least a few years #that was a traumatised kid who should not have to deal with post-war nation #anyways #i have a tendency to go off on tangents like thjs #full updo zuko propaganda #i guess #my personal reasons is: it's an ozai thing he sure did look hot in it doesn't mean zuko has to wear the same style

[allgremlinart]

"I hate the kinds of parents they made Toph and Aang in tlok :/" <- good litmus test for how boring someone is

#now this one is mean. but its true #or 'I dont like Korra because she makes a lot of mistakes/has character regression' <- lame #do u think I liked Zuko as a kid because I loved characters that made the right decisions and never regressed ...? no. same with korra. #although every decision she ever made was correct <333 fyi

[fictiontbh]

Zukaang is a tism 4 tism ship and i think we should talk abt that more

#zukaang #zuko #atla #aang #aang atla #zuko atla #avatar the last airbender #tism 4 tism #i mean same goes with alot of my ships but... zukaang brainrot

[tachiha3]

I really don't understand when people say Zuko is better than Aang and Katara in terms of parenting when we've seen NOTHING of his family dynamics.

#i mean people would have said the same #if we only saw tenzin doing council work #or only saw kya being a free spirit #and only saw bumi being a goofball and a general #we don't know what zuko's relationship with izumi is #or izumi's relationship with iroh ii is #or iroh ii's relationship with zuko is #atla #avatar the last airbender #my post #weird

[kyoobie]

Me: I don’t have a type

The characters I latch onto:

#can someone say daddy issues #I MEAN CMON ZUKO AND TODOROKI LEGIT HAVE THE SAME SCAR #I’m a lost cause #vld #keith kogane #voltron legendary defender #keith voltron #voltron #adrien agreste #mlb #miraculous ladybug #chat noir #atla #avatar the last airbender #Zuko #bnha #mha #boku no hero academia #my hero acedamia #shouto todoroki #shoto todoroki #todoroki #aot #snk #attack on titan #shingeki no kyojin #eren yeager #eren jaeger #eren

[noexoozes]

Finished the conversation between Zuko, Bee, and Shot, which means it is finally time for the fun part: Jet and Zuko interactions.

#jetko #jetko zuko figures it out au #gotta lay the foundations for their relationship after all #can't just focus on Zuko figuring out the mystery #things I need to remind myself sometimes because i have the same focusing issues as zuko #meaning i focus too hard on one thing and lose track of everything else

[fantasticgothicpeachsludge]

I’m so obsessed with the idea of Avatar Mako (not because I hate women, stfu Korra is still kicking ass, but just water-bending style in this AU) because the idea of an orphaned kid living on the streets, working with gangs, and fighting in underground bending rings while trying to raise his younger brother, not giving a shit about who the Avatar is or where they are, being the Avatar without knowing is so good.

Maybe his parents knew because when he was a kid, they did some little rituals or something to see if he was an earth or fire bender or if he even was one at all. But they never told him (or anyone else) because they were going to wait until he was sixteen, like traditional. So, they just went with fire-bending because of his appearance and because fire is probably more dangerous untrained, and more likely to be done on accident. (I choose to believe fire sneezing is a very real risk)

Anyway, I just.. I love this AU so much.

#also I don’t think air-bending would be something easy to do on accident #because there’s no way a random kid in a post atla world would know anything about airbending technique #also also water would be the hardest for him to learn let alone do on accident #I love this for the same reasons I love avatar Zuko #I can’t stop thinking about this #also I don’t mean to make it sound like mako is like a lot older then bolin I think that’s how mako thinks tho #new to tlok but it’s also been a while since I’ve watched it so be kind to me #tlok #mako tlok #the legend of korra #my preferred kind of fanfic is Scenarios #I LOVE WHAT IF SCENARIOS #PLAYING WITH THE LORE #I should go to sleep now

[princess-of-the-corner]

Lila: I am also a surviving Airbender!

Chloé *loud, frustrated groan*

Okay so /technically/

I don't think I ever decided on that AU if like. It takes place post-atla/lok or if it happens in its own separate continuity? It's funky because the way I envision it has the tech and such be a mix of the original series, but there's reference to more Canon lore bits.

But either

1.) It /does/ take place in the world, but it's post LoK so Airbenders are properly repopulated

or

2.) It takes place in a 'within the worldbuilding of atla/lok but those plots aren't heavily referenced', in which case the Air Nomad Genocide is just kinda nonexistent to them.

#ml atla au #that said there is one plot point that makes me want to make it that they're in the same world #and they've just circled around to the new water avatar so it's far in the future #and that's the idea of Chloé and Zuko being related lmao #though i may have to shift some things since i usually make it that andre isn't chloé's bio dad but GOD could you imagine fire lord audrey? #i mean ozai exists so it's pretty easy just genderswap and get some hair dye BUT

[cainpdf]

azula will never cease to fascinate me and make my heart clench. being so much smarter and more skilled than anybody around you that it makes you aspire to impossible levels of perfection. having your own mother think you are a monster and that there is something wrong with you. yes she might have grown to be just as bad or worse than her father but she was still only a child. how would any of that not make you go insane

#rewatching atla in this year of our lord #she might be a foil to zuko but on her own she is just. she is not a comfortable character. #we feel for zuko because he is clearly torn between wanting to be loved by his horribly abusive father #and he longs to fit in an environment that does nothing but hurt him #but the same applies to azula. she does not fit she is too much too mean too cutting #she says and notices things adults are appalled when kids say and notice #how would that not fuck with her head. #zuko is my favourite but he is the safe character he is the safe option #he gets out of it. #but it destroys azula. #my mind goes !!!!! when thinking about her #the beach is such a good example of that. she is the perfectly groomed tool her father could use for his purposes #but she is a teenager who cannot act like a teenager should #her only interpersonal skill is manipulation to an extreme #yes i know this has all been said before<3 #atla #azula #mine.txt

[hella1975]

your sokka is SO sokka and i say this as someone who holds him so dear ur writing of him is amazing. tbh im sooo fussy with his portrayal but its pretty nailed. like so many fics (esp zukka and zuko centric and ESPECIALLY ones where hakoda like adopts zuko) he's constantly pushed to the side in favour of zukos issues and zukos problems when in reality sokka is very hurt himself and has suffered a lot. man i GET taob sokka i really do bc people seem to think he was a lil mean but nobody seems to realise when you're in sokkas position it would've read like everyone was against you. all the swt men, including his dad who snapped at him, and even katara and aang and suki tell him to give zuko a chance and the fact that they were trusting someone who had hurt all of them so much- because yes WE know zuko wouldn't have killed them, but the gaang didn't. not when they were being chased and terrorised, and when sokka had his trust betrayed in the prison, he had absolutely every right to hate zuko, esp when it felt like everyone who he thought would understand his feelings, including his own dad who had been hiding his relationship with zuko from him, seems against him. his conversation with hakoda was probably my favourite scene in taob just bc he was allowed to feel like that without being treated by the narrative as someone just being mean to poor little zuko. he gets to be a sourpuss and angry and jealous at zuko for feeling like hed been replaced by his own dad. all of the water tribe men get this treatment like they're not written as bad people for being wary or disliking zuko initially (even chena despite being enemy no.1 at the start). his convo with hakoda was so important bc it stressed the detail that yes zuko has suffered and deserves to be cared for but SOKKA is his son, his actual child who is so hard on himself for things out of his control and who has hurt so much and deserves just as much as zuko does. sokka is just a baby my boy. he's not the main character but he's just as complex and intricate as zuko, not just in taob but also for the times we have seen him in tams there's been keen detail to his emotion and how he's feeling pointed out

me rn

#BESTIEEEEEEEEE YOU GET IT <333 #like ik the atla fandom including unfortunately some taob locals are generally AWFUL with sokka when zuko is involved #but it really was only a handful of taob readers esp in the grand scheme and i do want to clarify that #but now we're on the same page. OH MY GOD WHEN I SAY I WANTED TO PHYSICALLY FIGHT SOME PEOPLE #JUST THE SHAMELESS FAVOURITISM??? THE EXPECTATION THAT I TREAT A CHARACTER AS SOMETHING NOT-HUMAN BC THEY HAPPEN TO BE MEAN TO THEIR FAVE?? #like idc if zuko means a lot to you!! idc if it's sad seeing people be mean to him bc you relate to him so much!! #id be a terrible writer if i treated the other characters as planets in zuko's orbit. THEY dont know they're in his story #and sokka is a fucking sixteen year old. like come on i get mad when people do the same with chena being a dick to zuko #but at least he's a grown man. sokka is a TEENAGER. even if he was being irrational that would be completely fair #bc teenagers ARE FAMOUSLOY IRRATIONAL!?!?!?! GO OUTSIDE??!?!?!!? #anyway. im so normal about this topic and hold noooo grudges not any haha #remembering when someone commeted saying me personally as a real life person i was insidious and evil for insinuating #that adopted children arent worth as much as biological children and i should NEVER adopt bc im clearly the Worst #when that is not only an insane thing to say to a stranger on the internet but also. not what happened #hakoda never adopted zuko. that's a joke made in fandom. jokes are when people say untrue things for comedic affect #adoption is an actual official process of willingly and actively bringing a child into your family #NOT taking some teenage symbol of your culture's oppression as a prisoner and unwillingly growing attached #and now he's someone you're fond of and feel protective over as is natural of an adult towards a hurting child #but your actual son feels replaced and it's especially cutting bc of aforementioned symbol of your culture's oppression #and also this specific kid was a dick to him. like as a pretty notable part of his character he was a dick to him #so you reassure him bc that is your actual real life son. yeah? #are we on the same page? are we good? please i dont know how much more i can take- #taob asks #ask