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rawliverandgoronspice · 9 months

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I can kind of see why Hyrule reads as imperialistic to you in totk, but why do they read white? Sonia is brown and rauru is a black goat. What makes the difference between them and Ganondorf so bad?

Hey, thanks for the ask!

So... I have an answer, and it's kind of in layers. So I hope it's fine if I kind of go on Journey TM where I figure out my own feelings on the topic alongside you, the person reading! It's long! Kind of meandery! Sorry!!

Also, I had written a great version of this reply to this ask that Tumblr fucking ate and I'm furious about it, so this version is slightly more annoyed as a baseline because of Tumblr and not the ask itself. But I got stubborn and decided I would rewrite the whole thing tonight. So.

Here we go.

Layer One: My Basic and Unfiltered Gut Reaction

My first, potentially unwarranted gut-level reaction would be: I kind of think it's a stretch to consider them POC-coded. Sonia gives me more tanned Ariana Grande vibes than anything else, but that's... I mean, I'm aware that there are brown people with lushious blonde hair and blue eyes out there, that race as USA-infused Internet understands it is Complicated (I'm half-brazilian, and even though I'm very very white and don't consider myself biracial but bicultural, I had people discussing my ethnicity to my face a non-zero amounts of time, including quite recently, including in my own family! so I super get that it's more complicated than what I make it out to be here). But given vibes don't count as an argument, I completely get + accept if that reading on her ethicity is therefore dismissed. She could very well be brown. Fine by me.

(so, I feel like I have to add this borderline-conspiratory reason why I'm suspicious of her skin color being considered a factor here, which can 100% be dismissed but I still want to bring it to the table: I've been to several meetings and heard about many instances where "diverse traits" are being handed over to characters with the explicit purpose of using that diversity as shields against deeper criticisms of core aspects of the storytelling instead of fixing the storytelling itself, and honestly it could very well be the case here. I really hope it's just the team thinking Sonia would be prettier with a darker skin tone, because her design is genuinely lovely and I really like it, wish she didn't die like immediately and had a character arc of her own, but. Imagine the kneeling scene with two very white ladies and everything else, etc. It might be overly paranoid of me, but I can't help but squint a little bit in this specific instance, especially since the biracial trait here is so toned-down that it's barely there and barely committed to anything. Which would also make a good argument against this suspicion too tbh! Anyway. Just wanted to bring that up so you get the whole picture of where my brain is at.)

Rauru... Okay. Here's the thing: I can't unsee The Rauru. The original one I mean (and his Skyward Sword Gaebora counterpart), aka: the White Patriarch of all times.

(this has nothing to do with anything but Link's little recoil animation here is so funny to me, like he looks so shocked and his nose is so pointy)

I do think that removing the origins of this character from his DNA for TotK is kind of overly convenient when discussing this iteration, especially when his role in this game is basically a mixture of OoT Rauru and the Unnamed King of Hyrule (and every king of Hyrule that came after). I mean, okay sure maybe the Unnamed, Unseen King of Hyrule wasn't white but... it's obviously not true, right? And while I understand this is a different iteration of that character, many characters in the series maintain their base ethnicity across different reimaginings (even Blue Pig Ganon remains a gerudo at heart post OoT, at least in the way we keep on understanding him). And beyond this, given the fact that Rauru retains this energy of a Founding Father (in the largest possible sense), I feel that, at the very least, that patriarchal energy is extremely important to his character to a core degree.

But even so, yes. Rauru is now indeed a Goat Man. Not only is he a Goat Man, but he dresses in ways that are very inspired by mesoamerican cultures; undeniably so. So that would make him at least mesoamerican-coded, right?

I mean... I guess? I guess. Sure. But. I have now to introduce the Layer 2 of my argumentation, which is that...

Layer Two: Zonai Culture is Hylian Coded

So. Pretty bold claim I know. Let me explain.

Now I certainly do not want to say that mesoamerican civilizations are not *everywhere* in the aesthetic inspiration for the zonai culture in Tears of the Kingdom; I'm sure these real life references are overflooding the moodboards, from the color palet to the symbols to the artstyle, the costumes and the buildings. It's the main way the game communicates zonai-ness to us the player. And it's great! I wish they had went even harder in that direction (I think there's even pretty dramatic differences between the zonai ruins on the surface, much more interesting imo, than what was done with the actual zonai architecture at its peak).

But now, I will ask a question that I asked myself often while playing. What is zonai culture, beyond the feathers and the indented patterns and the swirls and the dangly bits? What characterizes it? I would say that zonai civilization is primarily interested in automation, technology, mining to develop said technology, and things that float in the sky. Beyond this, and from the limited perspective the game gives us through Rauru and Mineru, we see a society ruled by a patriarch (neutral term, it is just patriarchal in nature), married to a woman who is a priestess and doesn't seem to hold an equal amount of power (she doesn't speak as much, seems content to handle the religious side of things), who values collaboration and engineering prowesses, has an army, servants, robot servants, administrates other races through, to be docile and go the game's way, collaborativeness... It's Hyrule. It's just Hyrule, except older and with a different paintjob; but at heart, the style of society upheld by Rauru is very (eerily?) similar to what we get to know in the TotK/BotW era. Actually, this version of Hyrule seems extraordinarily similar to the Hyrule we get to see in BotW pre-Calamity: replace the zonai technology with the sheikah's, and what's the difference --except that this later version of Hyrule isn't trying to pass itself off as perfect? Zelda doesn't experience any kind of culture shock. Even the language seems to be basically the same. It is Hyrule, because it is. It's the origins of the kingdom. This is the whole point of the zonais: being that familiar thing that we know and love, except more pristine and more glorious and more mysterious so we can be sad when it gets destroyed.

So is it aesthetically inspired by mesoamerican cultures? Yes. Does it evoke specific details about said culture? The way politics and religion interconnect perhaps (unless we consider Rauru coming from the gods as such, but it's nooot super specific and not really elaborated upon)? What that culture valued, or what we assume it once valued? Cultural shortcuts we tend to make with these cultures, for better or for worse? I may be extremely uncultured here, and if that's the case I apologize, but I never really saw any of the aspects highlighted as the core pillars of the zonais commonly associated with either mesoamerican ancient civilizations, or current living native decendants of these civilizations. The biggest connexion or shortcut I see is the "mysterious ancient advanced civilization", which is pretty vague and was honestly more convincing in BotW.

Then of course, it doesn't invalidate that connection. But now, as a point of comparaison, to see what happens when Zelda takes active steps in coding one of their fantasy races... Let's take a look at the gerudos, shall we?

(Urbosa appreciation break. She's just so freakin cool look at her goooo!!! okay now we can keep going.)

I have said my whole spiel about the gerudos about a bajillion times now so I will try to make it quick. My tl;dr is: gerudos were always meant to be culturally disruptive. It's their whole point in the Zelda series. I won't rehash the whole thing about the crescent moon, the orientalism etc, but I think it's important to remember that they are meant to be considered foreign in a way no other Zelda race ever is. What I mean by this is, if we return to OoT: they are the only race hostile to Hyrule enough to not only consider and carry out an invasion, but to forbid entrance to their territory if you are not one of them. They have a different (apparenly evil-looking) god and their ears are rounded when everyone else is some sort of elf, their script is different, their cultural values are different, it's a weird semi-matriarchy where the man-king's occasional patriarchy has a very different social role than the king of Hyrule even if we don't get to see all the details... Won't return on the thievery and the 90s islamophobic kick of that time period, but the gerudos were very obviously crafted to be culturally deviant to the Hylian norm; their difference so great that getting accepted by them is an actual fighting and infiltration challenge. And even though they are much friendlier in TotK/BotW, they are still, by far the most innaccessible and different race out of all the rooster of, and it's worth mentioning, fish-people, bird-people and rock-people. They are the only one with their own language, their own strict rules that oppose your freedom as a player, a series of side-quests that directly address the subject of culture clash and differences; and, even then, they still parallel the real life western fantasy about the Orient TM (even more-so in TotK I would say, which I didn't love): the locked-in harem foreign men are forbidden to enter. This core idea is so entrenched that it becomes gameplay.

When it comes to Ganondorf, the parallel remains, more present than ever: in that game he gets to embody the foreign, cruel, brutal, cunning, manipulative, uncomfortably feminine at times, envious, physically intimidating, oppressive Man of the Desert in a long tradition of Men from the Desert and the rich legacy of literature and movies that portray them. It's not new to TotK, to be very clear: but TotK did double-down on the trope at the cost of Ganondorf's specificity as a character instead of questioning the trope that birthed him the way the series had tried to do in the past (even TP wasn't that bad, doing away with a lot of the baggage altogether --for better and for worse).

So to me... saying that zonais are mesoamerican-coded, in a world where we simply do not actively interact with these cultures all that much anymore (not at all to minimize the very real oppression of their descendants and the extreme and sickening violence their ancestors were met with to be extremely clear --I'm just saying that the violence wouldn't have worldwide cultural resonance in the same way and I don't think would have much reality in Japan unless, again, I'm saying dumb things and in that case please do correct me), or the extremely mild and non-invested way Zelda handled these cultures (to me it's much more costume than coding), positively too (good!), and comparing them to the active coding of the gerudos (and especially Ganondorf) as a means to equalize them as "basically the same thing" feels... a little off to me.

But! Now we're getting to the last layer!!

(you have no idea how long I searched for this gif, I typed "Ganondorf kneeling" in the gif search, like a fool, and parsed through much, much horniness to finally find my little dude anyway layer 3!!!)

Layer Three: It Isn't What Actually Matters Now Is It (at least according to me, the person writing this post)

Honestly, I don't really care whether Rauru and Sonia are white-coded or not. They could be, they could not be, cool by me either way. I don't really care if the zonai culture is meant to stand-in for mesoamerican cultures for Real for Sure or not, and heavily doubt it was done to increase diversity (otherwise Rauru wouldn't be, like, a Goat-Man but just a brown man). I do appreciate the visual diversity of the cast of NPCs, that hylians can look like a whole number of people and it's really cool Hyrule is moving into that direction instead of being very typecast into a sort of Japanese-ish representation of western middle ages/fantasy/fairy tale thing.

But at heart, what bothers me between this whole dynamic has less to do with whom is coded as whom than the fact that this game twisted itself into knots to tell a very suspiciously clean story about its complicated world and complicated history, and I feel like it's completely fine to ask for more than the bare minimum of visual representation and question the way these characters get to interact with each other and how their real life struggles are meaningfully talked about in the worlds Nintendo spend millions crafting? Sometimes, what they do is already great! Sometimes it's half-great! Most of the time, it could be so much better --especially when some of these subjects have been talked about to death for over 25 years (sorry to beat that dead horse one more time btw)

At the end of the day, the story itself is strange for many reasons. The power dynamic between the characters is attempting to be several things at once; maybe it's not on purpose, but either way, the world TotK paints is a strange one that only holds itself together if we accept to take it at face value. Which we don't have to.

And to me, TotK felt particularly shallow in that specific department of representation due to the whole... Imperialist Vibes thing (the other ask about this is queue'd, it's coming!), which nullified a lot of these efforts for me. It's not only about who's represented, but how they are represented as well, and, very importantly, why.

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rhineposting · 10 months

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So is the implication from that headcanon is that Belos sexually a*saulted Hunter? If yes, why did he do it? Is it like a chain of harm thing, like he himself was abused as a child, or was it just to be a prick?

The short answer would be yes, but the long version is a bit more complex than that.

More in-depth, but possibly triggering answer, below the cut

Okay, so. I'll begin with a disclaimer again.

The Belos pictured above is not canon Belos, and never was supposed to be. He exists solely as a device to explore an alternative scenario that would not make sense for canon Belos, as well as the weight behind it.

The main difference between this Belos and the canon one, is that he does not perceive Hunter as his nephew - to him, he was simply the boy he made specifically for being available at the snap of a finger. The abuse depicted in canon was clearly based on familial bonds, so I wanted to stray from that.

Disclaimer over.

So. Let's begin with Hunter.

While he is certainly a victim, assault isn't exactly the word I'd use to describe the specific type of sexual abuse he had gone through. To me, assault always implied something sudden, violent and unwanted from the get go - you know it's wrong from the start.

And that's precisely the opposite of Hunter's situation as depicted in the fic.

He's what I like to call an Unsympathetic Victim - the kind that most people doubt when they describe their story, the kind that doesn't fit into the convenient, tasteful or sometimes fetishized box of what being a victim means. Sucks, but unfortunately, it still happens everywhere. Those people, though their experiences and feelings are viewed unsavory or even sometimes disgusting by society, are still just as valid as those approved by it. Trauma isn’t a fucking measuring contest, and that’s that.

As for what that exactly entails...

Hunter, due to being isolated from peers and other adults, ended up developing an unhealthy infatuation with Belos, which resulted both from him being the only "good" adult in his life, as well as intrusive thoughts based in his already existing trauma, on top of teenage hormonal changes. Of course, he had no idea that it was wrong. He had no reference points whatsoever on what was right and wrong.

At some point he had admitted to those feelings and normal for his age desires - which, unfortunately to him, Belos decided to entertain. I won't go too much into detail, but eventually, Belos and Hunter's already awful relationship ended up gaining a sexual layer to it.

Here is where the "unsympathetic" part starts :

Due to his lack of proper education and severe emotional manipulation from Belos, Hunter never considered himself a victim. Right up until he started watching that movie with Luz, he thought it was perfectly normal for a teenager and an adult to be in a sexual relationship. Of course, for him the adult in question turned out to be a genocidal maniac and narcissist, but he never hated those more intimate parts. If anything, he was always happy to participate as he did enjoy it, as ugly as it may sound.

Of course, his logic skips on the parts where Belos guilt-tripped consent out of him, or that he was afraid of the disappointment that would follow after openly saying no, which as we know resulted in physical abuse in canon. All he knew was that he trusted Belos and that the act itself was physically pleasurable for both of them, so it couldn't have actually been something wrong. That it couldn't have been abuse as well.

That is, again, right up until he was proven otherwise by Luz, to which he reacted with brief panic then shutting down. Not only was that last illusion of normalcy taken away from him, now he believes it was his fault for having those thoughts to begin with. If there was one thing Belos taught him well, it was the art of self-victim blaming.

But in shorter words...

No. Technically speaking Hunter was not assaulted - rather, he was groomed and coerced, and mayhaps gaslit. While those two situations are both sexual abuse, they are two different kinds of it and that kind of distinction is important.

Now, as for Belos...

I personally do not like writing him with a "chain of harm" trope, as likely as it might've been, because I feel like it defeats the point of him consciously making the decision to do the wrong thing for over 400 years.

However, reducing it to him just "being a prick" misses the point as well.

Canon Belos first and foremost, wanted to have complete and utter authority and control over Hunter, while also demanding devotion, adoration and loyalty from him - which applies to This version of Belos as well.

So, when Hunter ended up coming forward with his intrusive thoughts and desires, to Belos it was an opportunity for two things :

Truly becoming Hunter's number one everything - further preventing him from finding someone else to possibly prioritize over him, which is why in canon he detested the sight of Flapjack so much, on top of him being Caleb's/Evelyn's palisman. Anyone from the outside of his influence was a threat to his control over Hunter. So, with him being Hunter's God, mentor, caretaker, superior and then """lover""", he was This close to stopping the redemption arc from happening. Alas, Flapjack and Luz still came around.

Satisfying physical urges without having to look too far, and without the risk of landing with someone who could stab him in the back. Hunter just so happened to be the perfect fit : willing, obedient, not ugly and always available. Sometimes, that's all there is to it with abusers.

In shorter words, again :

It was more about asserting his control and blowing off steam while at it, not just being an asshole.

Again, I cannot stress enough that this headcanon/interpretation/whatever is NOT meant to be in any way titillating or romanticizing sexual abuse. It is, first and foremost, a character study that’s based and inspired both by personal experiences and observations of both fiction and real life - in hopes of partially bringing light to often overlooked or stigmatized effects and types of trauma. In case you were wondering, no I am still not a therapist or any other kind of licensed professional, so do Not take my word as 100% credible and without fault as I am only human. That will be all for now.

#tw trauma talk #tw csa mention #tw child grooming #toh #the owl house #rhine rambling tag #storyboard belos #toh hunter #alt belos #I should probably get a different tag for this guy so people can filter him out easier if there's a need for that.#empgold #??? is that the right tag??? I dont' ACTUALLY ship them in any way shape or form.#I really don't want people to get the wrong idea. I swear to God I don't view the dynamic like That.#On another note #To the people who had similar experience/s like described above...#I see you. You're not disgusting for that and you didn't deserve it just as much as every other victim/survivor out there. You're not alone

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