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iaintyourbro · 4 years

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Hey! I just newly found out your acc and so far, I’m loving your posts/analysis. Idk if you’ve already answered or been asked this question but... how did you become a Cloti fan and the reason why you stan them (like what did you like about their tandem etc)? I’m just curious about your “journey” lol. Anyways, keep it up and have a nice day 😁

Hey anon! Thank you!

Oh you want me to ramble! I can ramble about this. Adding a Keep Reading!

You know, I’ve thought about this a lot today because of a conversation on Twitter. I can’t say I TRULY remember much about when I first played FFVII prior to the other pieces of the compilation coming out, things I saw in passing online, or other things that probably have affected how I remember it.

My Thoughts on What My Journey MAY Have Been

I played FFVII 20 years ago. Of course I THINK I remember how I felt about everything, but the more I do seriously think about it, the more I think the bulk of my opinions have been impacted by multiple different areas over that 20 years. On top of it, I’m not sure anybody who didn’t stay very active in the fandom would fully remember what went on 20 years ago with the game, nor could you truly remember what you felt prior to seeing everything else. It impacts your ability to say “Yes, I was this way, 100%.”

I wasn’t the biggest FFVII OG fan. I liked it a lot, but I preferred FFVIII and Xenogears by far. Those were the two I focused on the most. In terms of things like FanFiction, for example, I didn’t read Cloud and Tifa or Cloud and Aerith ones, I read Vincent x Lucretcia ones. As an adult, I appreciate FFVII OG much more.

I recall not being the biggest fan of Aerith, and I honestly don’t remember how I felt initially about Tifa. I do remember it feeling like it came out of left field when suddenly she’s in love with him in Mideel (we know it wasn’t sudden, but there was no real obvious buildup to me). If I’m being completely honest, I don’t think I cared at all about who Cloud “ended up with.” My assumption - and this I can say with certainty - was that Aerith died, so that was that. There wasn’t a relationship past that, nor could there be. She was dead.

Playing FFVII first, but FINISHING FFVIII first may have impacted this opinion as well. FFVIII was in your face romance. FFVII was not. There are a lot of people (myself included) that felt there was very little romance in OG. However, as with all of the other games I played, I did not question the story much at all. Cloud and Tifa have the Lifestream, which I do remember being like “WHAT?!” over that reveal of Cloud being a Shinra Soldier, not a First Class SOLDIER, they have some words Under the Highwind, and then at the end he catches her from falling. The dialogue during the ending bothered me because it made no sense to me at that point. After seeing the original story board, I can see why. I don’t think that was the intention, but for some reason they changed it. One thing I’m pretty certain on is that I got that weird feeling in my stomach where I got annoyed over that line.

I can recall being weirded out when people said that Cloud and Aerith ended up together, because I remember her dying. In life, 21 year old’s don’t pine for somebody that they knew for a month. That’s just reality. I’m not saying he didn’t feel anything for her, but it still weirds me out that people are okay with thinking he’d shut down and/or take more extreme measures to “reunite” with her, that I don’t even want to get in to. I will say that CA fans were much more vocal online, which I think is why folks like me who didn’t care never really got involved in online fandom. I never understood how it would make sense after beating the game, but I wasn’t the only one who assumed they did something weird at some point and made it where they could be together. I just didn’t care enough to look in to it.

My sister actually said to me, “Isn’t he with Aerith?” And I said, “No, but I had the same feeling at one point for some reason, and have no idea why.” And I reminded her Aerith died and she said “You’re right.. why would they be together?” Shrugs. I honestly think at one point I assumed they pulled a FFX and revived her in some offshoot game I didn’t play and that’s why people were saying CA.

Oddly enough, I think when I played KH and KH2 it made it obvious to me that they weren’t really pushing CA at all... even though I know some use those games as an argument. Mind you those are NOT canon to the FFVII Compilation, but I found it interesting that they bring in Tifa for KH2 and it ends up that a) Cloud was looking for Sephiroth and b) Tifa appears to have been his light. Even they way Aerith acts towards Cloud in KH never felt romantic to me at all.

Why I Like Cloud and Tifa

I like Cloud and Tifa because their relationship is very complex. It’s not flowers and sunshine like a lot of the FF romances. Not to say those don’t have drama - I mean Tidus is technically a dream, but they “revive” him anyway later on (never felt right about this, by the way... but I accepted it as part of the story).

Even in OG, it’s shown that they have quite a history, and Cloud pretty much has built all of his life decisions around Tifa. I do laugh every time I see the meme of the Lifestream and it’s all “Tifa Tifa Tifa”. I believe, I truly do, that the intent in the Lifestream was to make you realize that Cloud had a false persona up until he breaks at the Northern Crater, and once his TRUE SELF is revealed, along with it comes his true feelings. So up until that point, when you, as the player, could make decisions for Cloud and move him in a direction you thought was YOUR CHOICE, it’s not. It was an illusion.

I, in no way, thought that eloquently 20 years ago. However, I realized that he was in love with Tifa (which I thought was interesting for some reason) and that he created this fake personality to protect himself. The game doesn’t go into it much past that point, you get Under the Highwind, really, as a follow up to the feelings part, but that’s it. So I never saw the romantic aspect of it all as super important - it’s a nice to have.

Remake, however, really does seem to be pushing a more romantic angle, which ultimately made me a hard Cloti stan. I can’t say I WAS one before, even with all the “wait, is he with this or that one?” I never really thought he ended up with anybody TRULY except Tifa, but, like I said, I just didn’t care.

REMAKE MAKES YOU CARE ABOUT ALL OF THESE CHARACTERS. Like a lot. So I didn’t like Aerith in OG - I love Aerith in Remake. I love her relationship with Tifa, I love her sassy, judgemental attitude and her trolling of Cloud, because it’s hilarious. I don’t agree with EVERYTHING, but she’s by far better for me than she was in OG.

So Remake definitely made me go “holy cow” on the Cloti stuff. IT’S SO IN YOUR FACE. The Train Roll, the touching, the staring, the longing, the flirting. Even if you go the Aerith route, you can’t avoid a large chunk of that. You can skip all of her side-quests and still have a boatload of Cloti. Remake made me love the pairing and love all of the characters.

Cloti is now by far my favorite media pairing. When you compare it to Squall and Rinoa or Tidus and Yuna it seems much more interesting. Yeah, I’m saying it, and I’m a huge Squinoa fan. BUT - Remake didn’t make me care until now. Remake had me start researching the compilation, to understand where this and that came from. Folks on here have explained things that I may have missed or previously didn’t care about.

I also have a hard time with CA now after all of the compilation stuff. CC and ACC made it clear that Aerith loved Zack. This is NOT obvious in OG. The only references you get about Zack are “we weren’t that serious” when it’s first brought up in the park, IF you take Aerith with you to Gongaga, then she’ll say he was her first love, and Zack’s parents will say he wrote home about a girlfriend. None of that makes you believe that there was anything really serious between them.

CC clears that up, ACC reinforces it. After that, I can’t mentally do it because of the whole “bro code” thing. If Aerith knows Zack and Cloud were best friends, I can’t see her simply saying “cool I’ll just go with him now.” If Cloud was aware that his best friend was Zack, I don’t think he’d go with her. Prior to that, I can see why people would be okay with it. After finding out everything we know about how close Zack and Cloud really were, I can’t do it. This is a personal thing to me, it doesn’t mean I think nobody should ship CA. This is just how I view it, and I can’t see Aerith OR Cloud being okay with it if they were aware of it. This is also my view post compilation.

Remake reinforces, even further, the whole Zerith thing. As somebody who was meh before about them, I love them now. Remake makes you really look at the whole compilation if you’re not totally familiar with it or haven’t seen/played something in a long time.

So yes, I am definitely a Cloti stan, and probably always may have been, but just didn’t care until Remake.

But aside from all that - I took it as True Cloud’s One True Love was Tifa - and that’s part of what comes out in the Lifestream. So I don’t think True Cloud would have dropped Tifa.

#cloti #cloud x tifa #ff7r #ff7 #zerith

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imaginative-spirit · 4 years

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hii! i found your twitter acc when i was searching for sefikura meta/analysis, and i found your tweet! i wanted to ask if you know some blog posts (or any posts) of their relationship analysis, as i am quite new to the whole ffvii series and i am intrigued by their relationship. i wanted to ask through cc but i noticed you dont have curiouscat so i’m asking through tumblr, sorry ;;

I didn’t mean to put all of this under a readmore but tumblr is being an ass so that’s what we’re doing now, I guess...

Hello!! Unfortunately I can’t really come up with anything on the spot, because despite seeing posts like that around before, I’m very unorganized and bad at keeping track of posts... so I decided to write you one on the spot instead, lmao!! I’ve been planning to write a more coherent, longer analysis for a while but still haven’t gotten around to it, but I’ll share some of my condensed thoughts here. The sefikura relationship is what intrigues me most about FFVII after all, and I usually yell quite a lot about them on twitter!

You say you’re new to FFVII, which means that I should definitely give a spoiler warning here. I’m going to address spoilery stuff from the OG, Remake and also some of the compilation material, because it’s hard to talk about their relationship without doing so. (I’ll also assume you’re familiar enough with the world of FFVII to know what I mean when I talk about stuff like SOLDIER, Shinra, Jenova, the Lifestream and such... this would get too long if I explained all of that here, lol)

Okay, so. Cloud and Sephiroth are narrative foils, which means their stories and arcs parallel each other in many ways. The most central themes surrounding them are their loneliness, sadness and how they cope with trauma.

Sephiroth was most likely raised by Hojo in a Shinra lab, and if you know Hojo, you know that there’s no way Sephiroth was treated as anything but an experiment. He never knew his mother, and the only person he had any respect for - Professor Gast - vanished when he was young and this seems to have given him abandonment issues. Cloud, on the other hand, had a mother but not much else. He felt alienated by the other children growing up in Nibelheim and seems to have been generally disliked by the adults as well, due to them blaming him for the time Tifa got hurt. In other words, they were both very lonely as children.

Shinra sent Sephiroth to war when he was very young (people disagree quite a lot on how old Sephiroth actually is but it’s assumed that he was around 12), and as the years went by, Sephiroth became the poster child of SOLDIER. We know that Cloud grew to idolize Sephiroth for how strong and brave the media made him out to be (A.K.A. had a celebrity crush on him), and that was what inspired Cloud to leave town and try to join SOLDIER.

As we see in the prequel game Crisis Core, Sephiroth at this point is well-respected by his peers after his efforts in conquering Wutai. His two only friends are Genesis and Angeal, who are also SOLDIER 1st Class, but they end up leaving SOLDIER, which means Sephiroth gets left behind. Considering that he already had abandonment issues to begin with, being abandoned by his only friends must’ve hit hard. I’d say this sets the foundation for Sephiroth’s downward spiral. However, at this point, I would argue that Sephiroth is still a good person at heart, despite all the trauma he has endured. He persists, refusing to hunt down his deserter friends, and even begins a hesitant friendship with Zack, who was Angeal’s apprentice.

Cloud befriends Zack as well, but doesn’t make it into SOLDIER and instead remains in the ordinary Shinra infantry, which is a crushing loss for him because he can’t achieve his dream. It’s at this point I like to imagine that if Zack had introduced Sephiroth and Cloud to one another, things could’ve gone better. Sephiroth is older than Cloud and outranks him, but with how isolated Sephiroth has been for his entire life I think there’s potential for a meaningful friendship here. They’re both very lonely and neither of them is really a people-person, so I think they’d get along well once Cloud gets over his hero-worship and Sephiroth manages to open up a bit. I would say that sefikura, if Nibelheim didn’t happen, has the potential to be a healthy relationship.

But of course, that’s not how canon goes. The Nibelheim mission happens, Sephiroth finds out that he’s not human and finally snaps after years of mistreatment, burning the town to the ground. Cloud manages to kill Sephiroth, ends up spending several years as an experiment, gets injected with Jenova cells, goes into a coma, wakes up just in time to watch Zack die, and ends up so traumatized that he creates a false identity for himself as a former SOLDIER 1st Class.

We’ve now reached OG FFVII. At this point, Sephiroth, while technically dead and chilling in the Lifestream, uses Jenova as a vessel to move around and takes advantage of Cloud, using him as a puppet for his own gains. He constantly dehumanizes Cloud and generally doesn’t give a damn about him as a person, while Cloud resents Sephiroth but can’t resist his manipulations. In a lot of ways, I think Sephiroth projects his own trauma onto Cloud here, because if Sephiroth had to suffer as Shinra’s puppet for his entire life, then Cloud should suffer as Sephiroth’s puppet as well. As a victim of horrific abuse, Sephiroth has a lot of justified anger, but he takes it out on the wrong person entirely. It’s definitely a very unhealthy situation.

But of course, unlike Sephiroth, Cloud doesn’t let his trauma define him. He reaches his breaking point and falls apart completely, but he gets back up, because unlike Sephiroth, he has a support system of friends who stand by his side and work together with him to defeat Sephiroth at the end of the game. For most of his life, Cloud has been chasing Sephiroth. This is where he finally catches up and surpasses him.

And here, the tables turn. Cloud kills Sephiroth but that’s never stopped Sephiroth before. This is where Sephiroth first develops his Cloud-obsession. He fixates on Cloud so hard that his hatred keeps him from completely fading away into the Lifestream. Cloud is literally his lifeline. (Isn’t it romantic? lol) He returns in the sequel movie Advent Children, where he fights Cloud one-on-one and basically just taunts him for 10 minutes before Cloud kills him again. It’s implied that Sephiroth can keep coming back as long as Cloud exists as well.

Canon beyond this has, for a long time, been unknown territory. There’s a sequel game called Dirge of Cerberus that the fandom at large pretends doesn’t exist because it’s... kinda weird to say the least, lol. And it doesn’t really have anything to do with sefikura anyway. People have written post-canon sefikura as something that continues to be toxic, but there’s also fic that offers redemption and forgiveness for Sephiroth, acknowledging that he was a victim too. It’s left very open-ended.

All of this basically explains how I see sefikura. They’re two people who were alike in many ways, who could have been friends before everything fell apart around them, if things had been different. But they never did meet, before it was too late. Instead, they keep chasing each other, full of hate even though they’re probably the only people in the world who could truly understand each other’s trauma. The only real difference is that Cloud had friends to back him up while Sephiroth was abandoned, and I really, truly wish they could get an opportunity to reach some sort of understanding. And that would basically be it...

...but then the Remake happened. Diving into speculation territory here. I firmly believe that the Sephiroth we see in the Remake is a time traveller, or is at least aware of the future to some degree, and that the remake is actually a sequel where Sephiroth is quite literally remaking OG ffvii. He’s completely obsessed with Cloud to a degree that he never was in the OG, and considering how loyal the developers stayed to the characterization of basically every other OG character this immediately stuck out to me like a sore thumb even though it took me until the end of the game to piece it together.

I’m not kidding here. Sephiroth is desperate for Cloud’s attention in the Remake. He's constantly trying to touch Cloud, everything he says to Cloud makes him sound like a pining ex-husband, and he generally doesn’t do anything to harm Cloud except scaring him shitless simply by showing up. He actually has quite a few moments when he’s very gentle with Cloud. At the end of the game he basically even proposes to Cloud by asking Cloud to join him and genuinely seems upset when Cloud rejects him. And even then, he claims he doesn’t want Cloud (nor himself) to die.

For the life of me, I can’t wrap my head around what Sephiroth’s goal is in the Remake and I have no idea what they’re planning to do with his character in future parts, but I’m very excited to find out. The sefikura content in the Remake was very delicious and at this point the only thing they could do to surpass it in the future would be to have them actually make out on screen, lmao.

I hope this is coherent enough to read, I basically just tried to condense everything I could into a neat little essay and there’s definitely things I didn’t mention here, lol. I’ll write a proper, more well-thought out analysis another time!

Also, if you want to ask me anything else or talk to me about sefikura in general, my DMs are always open, both here and on twitter ;D

#hhhhhh I didn't mean for the entire thing to end up under a readmore but tumblr is a bitch and I can't fix it >:(#adventures in answering asks #sefikura #ffvii #Anonymous

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