Tumgik
#I'm Villanelle to your Sandra Oh
villanelesbian · 2 years
Text
a Carolyn spin-off in the works when they dedicated an entire episode and so much of s4 to her and the twelve, the big baddies that they spent years twiddling their thumbs over before truly delving into that plot in the FINAL SEASON when the two actual leads themselves are never coming back
Tumblr media
56 notes · View notes
wearevillaneve · 2 years
Text
Sandra Oh the Homophobe? Yea or Nay: A Discussion (with Teeth!).
Tumblr media
This entire debate spun out several essays from @anevolutionarynecessity's page where she makes her case that Sandra Oh is a homophobe. Some of her posts can be found here, here, and here. Anybody who's read this blog knows already this is a Sandra Oh safe space. I freely admit my bias toward her., but I'm not put off by having a tough discussion with someone who puts as much thought into their position as @anevolutionarynecessity has in her assessment that Sandra is indeed homophobic. I contend that the assessment is incorrect. And away we go. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ anevolutionarynecessity said: @wearevillaneve With all of this firmly in mind, it is literally only possible to deny that Sandra Oh is homophobic, and that this is a problem, if you’re wholly willfully blind to it. Or if you disingenuously choose to shut down this viewpoint by dismissing it or excluding it by narrowly focusing on Sandra Oh’s race. Again, Sandra Oh is both Asian and homophobic. And her race isn’t the point here, her disappointing and hurtful homophobia is. She’s complicit in Killing Eve’s homophobia.
That’s an accusation, but an accusation is not evidence.  I am not trying to “shut down this viewpoint by dismissing it.”  I disagree with it.   That’s not the same thing.   Nor am I excluding the viewpoint “by narrowly focusing on Sandra Oh’s race.”  I’m expanding the discussion into an area you haven’t bothered to consider except to use Oh’s Korean heritage against her because South Korea’s culture is homophobic in your opinion. Sandra’s parents were born in South Korea.  She was born in Canada, but if you want to use her parents’ birthplace to indict their daughter, I certainly can’t stop you.  I agree that Sandra Oh is Asian.  Whether she is homophobic depends on whether or not I accept your insistence that she is.  I don’t.  My belief is you built the roof first and then set forth to construct a house under it.   The conclusion had been reached before you made a substantive case of Oh’s supposed homophobia. 
anevolutionarynecessity said: @wearevillaneve We know that Eve’s lover Villanelle is shot in the arms of the woman she loves, shortly after their passionate kiss and (implied) consummation of their same-sex romantic relationship. Sandra Oh even confirms Laura Neal’s disturbing viewpoint that Eve experienced a “rebirth”, as her comments in that awful recent Deadline interview identify her soul destroying scream as a “life cry.” Among Sandra’s many other shitty homophobic comments and her concerning roles over the years. I'm still waiting for the confirmation of what those "many other shitty homophobic comments" are. Do you have a quote where Sandra Oh says, "I hate doing these gay parts" or "Does anybody with half a brain really believe two women can have a happy relationship together?" That would really add some meat to this bone. What I've heard over the years is Oh casting doubt on the idea that there could be a happy ending for Eve and Villanelle. She disagrees with fans who crave just that, but what does she know? She's only played Eve Polastri over four seasons and 31 episodes. If Oh is guilty of anything it is not feeding into some in the fandom's desire for the Villaneve Endgame. Neither Oh nor Jodie Comer has gone all-in for such a thing, but only one of them has been put on blast for it.
anevolutionarynecessity said: @wearevillaneve Sandra Oh has a proven track record of being a straight woman playing explicitly same sex roles and on top of that problematic roles. The same sex relationship in Catfight is fraught with hostility and violence and raw emotion in a way that so obviously draws comparisons to Eve and Villanelle in Killing Eve. We all know how Sandra Oh’s bisexual role in that turned out, don’t we?
Actually, we don’t because Sandra Oh is not bisexual in Catfight. 
The same-sex relationship in Catfight is between Anne Heche and Alicia Silverstone, not Sandra Oh.  She plays the ex-friend of Heche’s character.  The synopsis for Catfight reads as follows:  Two former college friends, who now find themselves in very different walks of life, meet up at a fancy cocktail party: Veronica has become the entitled, wine-loving wife of a rich businessman, while Ashley, along with her lover Lisa, struggles to make ends meet as an artist. As the two women reconnect, long-buried hostilities, jealousy, and anger explode into a vicious, bloody fight that leaves both of them battered and bruised.
So this is not the example of Sandra’s “problematic roles.”  But I’m curious, if you have a problem with straight women playing same-sex roles, why is Jodie Comer’s name conspicuously absent in your damning of Sandra Oh playing these sort of parts?   Is there a double standard at work here? 
anevolutionarynecessity said: @wearevillaneve (cont) Catfight (2017) Sandra Oh plays a bisexual woman who runs into her ex girlfriend one night a social function and because of their unresolved romance and bitterness, they get into increasingly brutal fights that puts each of them in a coma. The violence and resentment escalates until they both have nothing left to lose but their lives. And they do. The movie ends with them literally beating each other to death.
Yeah, I saw the movie.  Her co-star was Ann Heche, the former girlfriend of Ellen DeGeneres.   It’s a black comedy that is brutally funny.  I liked it.  Sorry you didn’t, but the brutality is the point of the film.  There have been literally hundred of films of men beating the snot out of each other for various reasons, but when it is two women squaring off and going toe-to-toe, blow-for-blow, it’s jarring as Oh and Heche discussed in an interview:
Tumblr media
When you hear the title Catfight, you're expecting maybe a slap or some hair pulling. But you two full-on brawl in this. Why do you think that title was chosen?
Oh: I think that's one of the great things about the actual film. One of the things that I also liked about it is the actual title. Because it's exactly that -- you have an image of what a catfight is, and this film really upends it. Those images of what you might think a catfight is is not what these two characters do. At all.
Heche: It's also the depth of feeling that women have and how we express it. Like, women and our behavior, we're supposed to behave. But if we would let out our anger toward another girl, we wouldn't be violent. We'd just smack each other and pull each other's hair a little. Even "catfight" in its essence of fighting doesn't allow women to be powerful in the depth of emotion. I think that's one of the things that we liked exploring.
Like, if we can take all of this life that these two -- for lack of a more complicated term -- flawed women [have], who are so angry at themselves or the world or anybody else that they can blame, when you dig down as deep as you can possibly go to get yourself to the place that would make that fight happen, that starts to encompass what we think complicated women are about. And how it's expressed is through the fighting, and we loved that metaphor, obviously. I think, really, women are hungry to express themselves as we see men express themselves. But we've learned different ways to do it.
Having sat with you for about 15 minutes, you seem to get along really great. But you hear stories about how Hollywood and this industry can pit women against each other. Is that something you feel you've experienced?
Heche: You mean women who don't like women? Yeah, all the time. We're not those kind of women.
Oh:I haaate you. I know that you have expressed that before. I will say, for me, of course there is that, but [in] my experience, just the work that I've done over the past year -- all women, mostly women of color, directing and writing for me -- it's also my choice, to veer toward working with those people.
The blazing anger you have against Oh and seeming contempt for her has obscured the reality of how Oh purposefully seeks out projects with women to act with, women to be directed by, and to play the characters as they are written by women.   This includes queer and bisexual women.   But you are erasing all that because Oh has not articulated an unambiguous pro-gay, anti-homophobia position with the fervor and passion that you have for this issue.   I contend no one is in a position of such purity to demand anyone else fight as hard for an issue as you are fighting it yourself.  
Tumblr media
 anevolutionarynecessity said: @wearevillaneve And because you mentioned Sandra Oh’s prominent same-sex roles, I’m going to point out a disturbing pattern in all of them: they’re tragedies where the lesbian couple is punished via the BYG trope (literal death) or a break up. Every. Single. One. Here’s specific examples: Under The Tuscan Sun (2003): Sandra Oh plays a pregnant lesbian whose partner breaks up with her. 3 Needles (2005): Sandra Oh plays a lesbian nun on a mission in Africa battling AIDS. Lots of death and tragedy.
It's great that you did the work to do a deep dive into Sandra’s same-sex roles, but this is a case of being edgy without having a point.  Not one of those films was written or directed by Sandra. .  She was hired to be an actor and that's her job.  She may have some thoughts as to what her character might say or how she would respond, but she has no more power to change it on her own than a house painter can decide the owner’s home would look better in firetruck red than the light blue that was chosen.
Why is it Oh’s fault if these roles have tragic ends?  The answer is it is not.  By the way, you left out Tammy (2014) where Sandra plays the love interest of Kathy Bates.  It’s a Melissa McCarthy comedy and I haven’t seen it, but if anyone has please let me know if Kathy and Sandra get run out of the neighborhood by vicious homophobes or hold hands and bravely, but tragically drive off a cliff together. 
anevolutionarynecessity said: @wearevillaneve Nor does an affluent celebrity ever deserve my defence, especially not when their success is earned on the backs of LGBTQ folks’ passion, dedication, and money. Not when that same celebrity is complicit in homophobia and BYG. I don’t care about awards, race, talent, industry, eloquence, education, culture, religion, gender, age, or even sexuality–homophobia is homophobia in all its vile forms. And I’m going to spend my time fighting it, instead of propping up homophobes.
As well you should.   That’s your issue and you can fight for it as hard as you want and against anyone you want to fight with. That part about Sandra being an "affluent celebrity" whose success is earned on the backs of LGBTQ folks' passion, dedication, and money? That comes as a hyperbolic rant. Sandra Oh is not exploiting the LGBTQ community, but even if she was, why is she the ONLY person among the Killing Eve crew to receive ALL the blame?
You have singled out one person for all your righteous rage.  You are blaming Sandra Oh in a way you are not blaming Jodie Comer, Phoebe Waller-Bridge, Emerald Fennell, Suzanne Heathcote, Laura Neal, and Sally Woodward Gentle who by your broad brush should be equally culpable in conspiring to bring Killing Eve to fruition and pushing an anti-gay agenda under the deception of a women-led production.  
Tumblr media
Your absence of anger against those heterosexual White women illustrates how the selectivity of your rage is allocated.  You have all this bile to spill on Sandra Oh’s head, but not once do you condemn Comer for passing herself off as a queer woman for four seasons.   Not once do you condemn Fiona Shaw, an open and married lesbian for accepting the role of Carolyn Martens, the woman so desperate to return to the MI6 patriarchy that she orders the assassination of Villanelle, the most prominent queer character on Killing Eve. Selective outrage is the worst kind of outrage and you have carved out exemptions for Killing Eve’s White actors, writers, and producers while absolutely shredding the Asian actress as a malicious homophobe. 
This selectivity does your argument no favors. 
anevolutionarynecessity said: @wearevillaneve As with any actress taking on a major role, Sandra has furthered her career and made heaps of money because she played Eve, a bisexual character. Her success was fuelled by a fandom with over 80% queer people, and her contemptuous, condescending, and callous homophobic remarks that dismiss Eve’s sexuality and Villaneve are not something I will ever defend. Yes, you’ve made that clear, but where does your figure of the Killing Eve fandom being 80 percent queer people come from?  That number seems high and arbitrary.    What's the source for that percentage? 
Tumblr media
anevolutionarynecessity said: @wearevillaneve Aside of the government policies, Sandra Oh has spoken candidly about being raised by her Korean parents, and in strict Christian household. She’s very much a contemporary woman but she’s also had to grapple with her upbringing just like everyone else. You can’t ignore that aspect of her culture and race either. Finally, I love that Sandra brought her Korean culture to Eve’s character. It’s enriching. But in real world terms, Sandra’s homophobia does real harm.
What does Sandra being raised by religious parents have to do with your conclusion that she is homophobic?   You seem to be implying being religious equates to hostility toward gay people. What do her Korean parents have to do with this? Are they homophobic? How do you know that?   Do you know if part of her “grappling with her upbringing” was throwing off the shackles of her homophobic religious indoctrination?  
Unless you have proof of this, you’re throwing out bait of implied religious bigotry into the waters and hoping a shark swims by for a bite.  This is just wild speculation on your part. You can't fight religious intolerance by the religious with secular intolerance.
anevolutionarynecessity said: @wearevillaneve All this brings me to my final point, and it’s one I really cannot emphasize enough: Sandra Oh being Asian and Sandra Oh being homophobic are not mutually exclusive. It’s well documented that in particular, South Korea is still homophobic in its society, culture, and economic policies. Feminists and LGBTQ activists in particular have struggled since 2007 to implement anti discrimination laws that have yet to pass. If you want to talk about race, then you have to acknowledge that.
No, not really, because that's a cultural issue, not a racial issue. South Koreans are not a race. This entire line you're pursuing hinges on the condemnation of an entire country. This attempt to make Sandra Oh a proxy for South Korea’s homophobic culture might work if she was a native South Korean, but she wasn’t even born there.  Sandra’s parents were.  She was born in Canada, but if you want to use her parents’ birthplace to suggest their supposed sins were passed onto their daughter, I certainly can’t stop you, but I won't entertain this sort of character assassination either.
anevolutionarynecessity said: @wearevillaneve Sandra Oh is also straight. And so is Jodie Comer, and Camille Cottin, although in Camille’s interview with The Guardian she at least had the integrity to freely admit she was bisexual and tackle the burning question of if it was for her as a straight actress to play Hélène, an unapologetically same sex attracted woman. I critique Sandra on the basis of her sexuality too, because her remarks harm queer representation. I find it hard to believe you can’t see that as a dire issue. Okay, so which is it? Is Camille Cottin straight or is she bisexual, because you just described her as both, so I'm a bit confused here?
By the way, when did Sandra Oh declare she was straight? I missed that announcement. How do you know which direction her sexual orientation compass points and what is your point if she is straight? Surely you are not suggesting straight women should not play queer characters, because if you are I cannot wait to see how you rewrite your rules for Jodie Comer.
Tumblr media
Or maybe you already have?
I've never understood why you exempt Jodie Comer from the stinging criticism you blast out at Sandra Oh.   Comer gets a total pass from you despite playing the character who was presented early as coded bisexual and then as the show went on became exclusively focused on same-sex encounters.  Wasn’t Comer the one who said in a post-Season 3 interview that Villanelle and Eve walk away from each other on the bridge?  That might be where Laura Neal got her stupid idea to open Season Four with the two of them split apart for seven to eight months and at odds with each other again.
That also gets a pass from you.  The lengths you are going to blame Oh while absolve Comer is transparent.
anevolutionarynecessity said: @wearevillaneve And here are my closing points for you to consider, if you can: 4) Sandra Oh does not represent or speak for all Asian women, and she certainly is not representative of their typical struggles because she’s an affluent actress with tremendous, enduring popularity. I critique her along the lines of her privileged status that affords her the ability to overcome the hardship of racism comparatively easily to others groups. Her wealth and status eases many of her struggles.
It took me a few cracks at this to dial this down, but let me be direct with you @anevolutionarynecessity As a White woman, you are not remotely qualified to critique how Sandra Oh does or does not represent Asian women.   You have not spent one second of your life as an Asian woman. You know nothing of what their typical struggles are. The sheer audacity takes to even suggest you possess more insight into the Asian condition in America than Oh does is infuriating in its audacity and its arrogance.  
Sandra Oh is iconic in the Asian community.   She is a beloved role model who gives back to and stands up for the Asian community.   I know after a mass shooting of Asians in Atlanta I saw an impassioned Oh stand on a street in Pittsburgh yelling into a bullhorn to assert her right as an Asian person to simply live and be here in the U.S.   She didn't HAVE to be there. She didn't take a public stand to defend Asians who don't have as much money as she has or isn't as "popular" as she is. She did it despite the fact there was nothing of direct benefit to her. She wasn't promoting a movie or a TV show and she wasn't doing it for clicks, lives, retweets, or to trend on Twitter.
She did it because people who look like HER were being gunned down and she was PISSED THE FUCK OFF about it!  Sandra Oh’s “privileged status” didn’t get her the role of Eve Polastri.   After reading the script, she didn’t even know what role she was playing on the show.  She said she had been so brainwashed by the racism she had experienced that she couldn’t even imagine herself as the lead role in a television series.  And here you come along saying because she’s made some money and has a little popularity, she’s been insulated from the bigotry Asian people face every damn day in this country.  
How absurd.  How wrong you are to try to diminish and erase the woman who said, “It’s an honor just to be Asian.” and "Stop Asian Hate."
What even qualifies you to go at her in such a way?
Tumblr media
Nobody speaks for all Black people.   Nobody speaks for all gays.  Nobody speaks for all lesbians.  Nobody speaks for all bisexuals.   Nobody even speaks for the entire Killing Eve fandom.    Nobody speaks for everyone in any group. 
But one thing is certain.   Nobody OUTSIDE of a historically oppressed and discriminated group gets to speak whether someone INSIDE the group belongs there and definitely not a Caucasian woman declaring an Asian woman who has some money and achieved a degree of success and fame has forgotten the prejudice and discrimination she faced (and still faces). That is an appalling display of smug hubris and this is the part of this entire discussion that actually made me angry. It is so unfair and untrue.
anevolutionarynecessity said: @wearevillaneve If Sandra was a man or if she was white or in any other industry this would be textbook toxic workplace abuse. It’s the same thing with Sandra’s homophobic remarks–which by the way, I am not “reading into” with I’ll intent or hanging onto her words, I am literally QUOTING the woman’s words herself. Sandra is literally expressing herself and her own mind, and you are one of the loudest people falling over yourselves to defend her at all costs. Sorry, but I don’t do that.
Sandra is not a man.  Sandra is not White, but you are and so is Jodie who is for reasons unexplained totally immunized from any criticism.
What you call a toxic workplace sounds to me like honest disagreements on Grey’s Anatomy that occurred between an actress (Sandra Oh) and the showrunner (Shonda Rhimes).    If Oh were that toxic on the show they would have simply fired her ass the way they did Isiah Washington who DID make homophobic remarks about another actor on the show.  There have been ZERO reports of Sandra engaging in “textbook toxic workplace abuse” on the set of Killing Eve.   But by all means let’s dredge up some rumors about her interaction with Rhimes on the set of a show she left over a decade ago.   Apparently, there’s no statute of limitations on Oh’s bad behavior.  Behavior that was so egregious when Sandra made the TIME 100 list in 2019, Rhimes wrote this about her:.
One of the greatest gifts of my creative life has been the opportunity to write words to be spoken by Sandra Oh. The reason is simple: Sandra Oh is a virtuoso. She treats dialogue like notes of music—every word must be played, every syllable correctly toned. She’s always been an extraordinary actor. Her body of work makes that clear. Ten years of playing Dr. Cristina Yang on Grey’s Anatomy made her place in the acting landscape undeniable. Her award-winning turn as Killing Eve’s Eve Polastri makes her legendary.
Her comic timing is priceless. Her dramatic well is endless. Her talent is a song to be heard. With her nuanced characters, Sandra Oh has chosen to fearlessly take up space in a universe that has not always made space for her. Now, the power of her talented presence makes space for others. And that is a gift to every artist of color who follows in her footsteps.
Tumblr media
Wow.  Such glowing praise from Rhimes for such a terrible human being.  It’s SO bizarre. 
anevolutionarynecessity said: @wearevillaneve Sandra herself mentions race wasn’t even a factor of concern at the beginning, until Sandra herself became more demanding as she approached her departure from the show. Instead of showing solidarity with Shonda, Sandra threw temper tantrums and abused her influence as an actress for a beloved character to pressure her conworkers into giving her the story lines she demanded. Again, all as reported by Glamour and Variety. Sorry, but until you produce the evidence of these alleged “temper tantrums” and how Sandra “abused her influence as an actress” allegations are all they are.  If Glamour and Variety reported this obnoxious behavior it shouldn’t be hard to find the link to those stories, please provide a link.   Otherwise, I can’t accept the veracity of these allegations simply on your say-so.  Sandra has described the sudden rise to fame on Grey’s Anatomy as “traumatic” and harmful to her mental health, but I suppose that is irrelevant to casting her in the part of a shit-stirring prima donna.
anevolutionarynecessity said: @wearevillaneve You also mention SO and Grey’s Anatomy, but neglect to mention that she constantly pressured and fought with Shonda Rhimes, a black woman, the show runner, head writer, and executive producer. Glamour and Variety articles report that Sandra bullied the writers and Shonda into changing Christina Yang’s entire character arc to suit Sandra’s every whim. She was literally gloating about fighting every day with them. And the strangest part? It wasn’t about Sandra Oh’s race.
See above.  Proof, or it didn’t happen. 
anevolutionarynecessity said: @wearevillaneve You can’t be angry about the obstacles racism poses for SO and then reduce everyone else down to their own race, which they never chose, especially if they’re white. But once again, with utmost feeling, this isn’t about Sandra Oh’s struggles with the racism she’s over come or about her race. This is about her homophobia, and my reply to Anon was a case in point.
I disagree.   This IS about Sandra Oh’s struggles with the racism she’s overcome and her race.  I understand why you don’t want it to be about that because it undercuts your argument, but the unhappy fact is race does matter and it is relevant to this discussion.   You made it that way when you singled Sandra Oh out for your righteous rage but carved out an exemption for Jodie Comer who played the openly queer role of Villanelle. 
The KE fandom has always had a marked preference for Comer over Oh, and I totally get it.   There are a lot of young White women in the fandom and naturally they gravitate to the character who looks like them and is closer to their age and racial demographic.  
But if you want to tell me the obstacles Oh has faced to stay relevant and, in the picture, when Suzanne Heathcote deliberately reduced her to near-supporting cast status and sidelined her from an entire episode aren’t part of this discussion, then I don’t see what we are discussing has any merit to it. 
Race does matter.  Race always matters.  You put an Asian woman in a role where even the original author didn’t make space for her, and Phoebe Waller-Bridge had to fight for Oh as her Eve Polastri and race matters.   You put an Asian woman who is older than the White woman she’s playing off against and race matters.   You put an Asian woman as the only person of color on the set of a television show and race sure as hell matters.
It only does not matter if you purposefully remove race from the equation because that doesn’t suit the agenda of scourging Sandra Oh for not speaking out against the rampant homophobia on Killing Eve that you have perceived as being present from the first minute of the first episode. 
However, it begs the question of WHY is it only Sandra Oh that gets all this negative energy from you and everybody else evolved in the show gets NONE.  It also makes one wonder why you have largely chosen to hold your fire until the show concluded. 
It looks like the blame has fallen upon the Asian woman because her face and name is well known and she was the most prominent person in the production.  By going scorched earth on Sandra Oh and nobody else that lends to the perception her race factors into why she and only she, is being singled out for this vitriolic attack. 
Sandra Oh is being scapegoated.
Tumblr media
anevolutionarynecessity said: @wearevillaneve I was born during the Balkan wars. I almost died as a child from the bombings. I come from a homophobic culture, one that still hasn’t gotten any better. It is ridiculous and hurtful and again disingenuous for you to accuse every single white person as not speaking out enough about the racism SO faces because you see’ to have an axe to grind. I am not a typical North American Caucasian woman and it’s bold of you to assume other people are as well.
While I can and do respect the difficult circumstances you survived, you are still a White woman, I am still a Black man and Sandra is an Asian woman.  We all live different lives and how we appear impacts how we move through this world.    There is no hiding my Black face just as there is no hiding Sandra Oh’s Asian face and as Americans, we both have to deal with a racist culture.  You are not viewed the same way.  There are advantages to being White that people of color do not have, but this isn’t a “who’s got it worse” contest.   Not being a typical North American Caucasian woman does not mean you can’t participate in the benefits of being White in a predominantly White world.   Benefits that people of color like Sandra and myself cannot access with the same degree of ease that you do.  It is simply a fact that race and gender stand out in a way that sexual orientation does not.   I’m not here to tell you your concerns are invalid, but neither are you here to tell me mine are.   I DO have “an axe to grind” in regard to race, but I make no apologies for that. Your axe is just as sharp when it comes to homophobia and you aren't making any apologies for it either.  
The blade does not discriminate whose flesh it cuts and if my remarks in defense of Sandra Oh have been overly strident or accusatory or seemed like a personal attack, I sincerely apologize.
However, I will never apologize for standing up for women of color when they are being unjustly attacked.  I've done this within the Black community and I have no reluctance to do the same when the attack comes from without by another community.  
anevolutionarynecessity said: @wearevillaneve 3) Your own lived experiences and your identity as a POC inform your perspective. I am not a POC, which is why I have also not seen it as my place to write 10,000 word essays about this topic. There’s no reason to take that maliciously. More to the point, even thought I’m not POC, I’m a Slavic lesbian woman. I was born in a multi-ethnic state that has its own complex, violent, harrowing struggles with racism and ethnocentrism and religion. It’s so delicate and complicated.
That which divides human beings is always so delicate and complicated.   But what unites human beings are we all have the same basic needs.  The reasons we shouldn’t be friends are many.   The reasons we are comes down to we both dug the hell out of a silly television show and a bond was forged.  Killing Eve was the place of confluence where all these disparate streams from around the world came together.   All our differences became secondary to our commonalities.  Now that the show is over the streams are diverging again and our differences are being pushed back to the forefront. We are not going to agree here.   Not this time on this subject. That’s okay.  I don't agree with your central argument or with some of the ways you are presenting it, but I won't say you are ALL wrong, because you aren't. We disagree, and we aren't going to reach a happy medium here.  I fundamentally do not believe Sandra Oh is a homophobe. You do. Two different things can both be true.  This is not a zero-sum game. Nobody has to “win” this.  
anevolutionarynecessity said: @wearevillaneve So please don’t be disingenuous. Especially when 2) Nothing in my particular answer to Anon even mentions Sandra’s race. This is not about Sandra being Asian. This is not about the obstacles she’s overcome. This is about her homophobic remarks, since 2019 and throughout the years. YOU explicitly chose to make this about Sandra Oh’s race. And that brings me to my next points. I made it about race only because you don’t believe it is relevant.   On the contrary, it is very relevant and the targeting of the only prominent woman of color while taking pains to exclude EVERY White person who might be equally or even more justifiably accused of homophobia can’t be waved away as irrelevant.  Why is Jodie Comer exempt from your critique?  Why are the White writers and showrunners and producers and executives exempt from your critique?   Sandra Oh and Jodie Comer have both only spoken once or twice publicly since the finale.   Jodie takes no questions about Killing Eve focusing instead on her one-woman play.   Sandra takes a question about Eve being straight and replies “No” and you say it doesn’t matter. Jodie’s silence is protecting her, but one day some interviewer who actually has some journalistic credentials will ask her about the finale and she will either have to lie, say “no comment” or give an honest answer.   When she does, let’s meet back up here and see how many words her response prompts you to compose, because right now the number is ZERO.   
It is my position that a bigot does not go out of their way to be around or exposed to groups they hate.  IF I were to grant your point that Sandra Oh is homophobic, she’s a pretty contradictory one because she is constantly saying things no straight woman says and constantly taking parts where she is loving on women (usually White) instead of telling her agents, “Nah, I don’t want to kiss on any more girls.”
That’s not a defense.   She’s an award-winning actress who could just be running an elaborate scam on the gays, but why and why for so long?   Sandra is going to be 51 years old this year and she’s been in acting since her teens.   Why gaslight the gays so long if she really hates them so much?
anevolutionarynecessity said: @wearevillaneve 1) You and I have been good friends for years. You very well know that I write whole ass dissertations about Killing Eve. And so do you 😉 And you reblogged this directly from me, too. So why don’t you call me out directly? Why take cheap shots and imply that a discussion of Sandra Oh facing racism is somehow not on my radar? You know it is. I was right there with you calling out the all-white writers room. And yet, when they added more POC it didn’t fix the story problems or BYG.
After Sandra called out Killing Eve’s lack of diversity on-set (and by default in the writer’s room as well), Sally Gentle added a Black woman, Isis Davis as a staff writer.  She already had Kayleigh Llewellyn, among the openly queer writers, but that didn’t stop the show from killing gay characters (Villanelle, Helene, Fernanda, Carolyn’s father) left, right and center and it didn’t get us any more people of color beyond Yusuf, Pam and the return of Martin.  There hasn’t been a prominent Asian character on Killing Eve since The Ghost two seasons ago.
This shows it isn’t enough to bring in a Black woman or a lesbian when straight White women are calling the shots and making the final decision.  I just posted where Llewellyn said how she had to fight to get her story ideas in a room with nine writers and answering to three producers.  
We’ll never know if Llewellyn would have given us all the Villanelle content we craved in a fifth season, but if people of color or gay people are always going to have to run a gauntlet of heterosexual gatekeepers to get their ideas taken seriously, there’s never going to be real substantive change taking place. 
I reiterate that racism within the KE fandom is not the same priority for most Whites as it is for non-Whites.    I know you��ve written about this on your own blog, but it’s not as nearly important to you as calling out homophobia and queerbaiting when you see it.   It’s not a “cheap shot” to say Sandra Oh facing racism is not on your radar when it isn’t as important or relevant to you as it is for me.  
anevolutionarynecessity said: @wearevillaneve You bring up so many good points here, including the misogyny and bigotry Sandra Oh has faced throughout her career. And especially the point that we all bring so many perspectives to discussions, including this one. There’s a few things I’d like to point out though, and I hope you’ll answer honestly.
When have I not?  
There’s a Sandra Oh interview for Variety, post The Chair and pre-Killing Eve’s fourth season from February 2022 where she said, “The social media… It’s hard to gauge when it’s going to bite you. It doesn’t matter what your intention is, or what your reality is for you. When it gets out there, it doesn’t belong to you anymore… and I find that dangerous.”
This entire discussion, this entire debate we’re engaged demonstrates how terribly right Sandra is.  It IS dangerous.
Someone can take one sentence from one interview in one sketchy publication, and it is hung around that entertainer’s neck like an anchor.   I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Sandra Oh and Jodie Comer haven’t done any more interviews with Gay Times since 2018.    Even then there were two points of view whether or not Killing Eve and Oh were queerbaiting the audience, but the other side never got as much play as the initial comment. 
I am a published writer with years and years of writings behind me.  It wouldn’t be difficult for someone to go back and find something I wrote that makes me look like the biggest asshole in the world.   Most interviews are not the complete record of what was said between the interviewer and subject.   I have no idea what the content was of Sandra Oh’s “you guys are tricky” comment to Gay Times, but I’m doubtful she was trying to gaslight the fans and bullshit the writer. 
I try to assume good intentions until I have reason to no longer assume.   You believe Sandra Oh is a homophobe.   I do not, and that is where I'm going to leave this. There's no absolute wrong here and no right here. Just an honest difference of opinion without a middle ground in between the opposing viewpoints. 
Tumblr media
32 notes · View notes
joe-the-lion · 2 years
Text
"Maybe Something A Little More Woody"
Tumblr media
(Pic not from the last ep. Congratulations, Jodie, on your face.)
There was so much beauty in this final episode, after a crushingly annoying and incoherent beginning to s4 (what happened?? on the bridge? ??)
Villanelle as Parishioner of the Week was funny, since she invented the award.
So, let me just start at the end of Season 4, with the aching beauty.
Eros and psyche are not mere figures in a tale but are two ends of every psychic process. We cannot view anything psychologically without an involvement with it: we cannot be involved with anything without its entering our soul. - James Hillman
The best moments of Killing Eve are when a fantastic cast has free rein, when they're allowed their natural incandescence and PWB's fantastic writing, and then later, they rose above mediocre writing. Other moments were quiet, unbelievably intimate—the micro expressions in this show have always been SO good—when the actors were given the space for their characters to be immensely monstrous and unlikable as well as compelling and hilarious.
There had to be an innate ability to choose whatever take broke open a scene just enough that I became erotically complicit and aware of my complete psychological involvement in the show’s generalized anxiety re: being human, and a woman of a certain age. Is Eve an everywoman? Are there recesses of the unconscious where Villanelle resides in us? Yes Of Course we have shadows and secret lives and, also, Not Really—because this is one iteration of a goofy spy thriller, the two leads are women. Within that genre, no one’s identity or character development is subsumed to the engine of the plot. Season 1 and 2 asked key things in slight different tones. Who can survive Love? Is there a soul (Psyche) at the End of Time and the End of the World as written by Phoebe “Don’t get drunk and shit in your sink again.” Waller-Bridge.
Hey, there’s a huge mythology dropped on our heads out of nowhere in the 4th season so I’m going to address it.
The books read like fanfiction. I preferred the show. Altho now I'm thinking a linguistic degree is pure genius.
This is a genre romp that didn't take itself seriously. What a relief. Yes, it’s about getting these two women in a room together, yes, it’s always been a love story. Yessss, it’s about a psychopath assassin in great clothes (not gonna lie, V's fashion choices was 50% of why I watched the show at first) who looks like Jodie Comer obsessed with a beautiful and bored Sandra Oh from Connecticut (who looks like Sandra Oh)—who loves and obsesses over and hates her right back.
Yes, there are wild, mythological elements that the later showrunners 1) introduced randomly and banged over our heads with an anvil of foreshadowing and 2) COMPLETELY FUCKED UP because you know what? The Daniel Craig James Bond era did not have to piston in anything remotely like that. Whatever happened in the Bond universe made so much sense (yes there was a Mother Complex, whatever) and ended up being great fun. The man is like, 537 years old already and 3) that is NOT how the Eros and Psyche myth ended in this essay I will.
What happened to all the sausages from season 1? They were everywhere. They were a riot.
Even a wiki page got it right, wow. The show was about female agency and rage and the dissolution of ego and identity under late-stage capitalism and yeah, there’s a shadowy organization of Utter Chaos with faceless, nameless, anarchistic, ridiculous evil figures in different cells that know nothing of the other ones just for funsies. Like, who the fuck cares? There’s Jodie Comer. There’s Sandra Oh. Sure, why not. Whatever gets this road trip going. I was all in. It got me through the first lockdown in 2020 and I re-watched it. Obsessed. Because I LOVED it.
Honestly, some of season 3 and the beginning of season 4 were so godawful and weird it reminded me of my fanfiction and how ludicrous my final thirds can be. I was like, SAME.
Tumblr media
Someone still has to explain AUs in the Killing Eve universe. How do they work work, you know? I’m genuinely curious.
The cast was glorious. Sexy, funny and in on the joke. They also took it as seriously as we did. And I will forever love them for that.
I’m truly flummoxed and a little scared for the children. What was your deal with Niko? Do you know what an honor it is to have Owen McDonnell play opposite Sandra Oh? No? He was not a useless ex-husband. Grow the fuck up. Get a therapist. That man ate his role. He was the only sane one. His mustache was great. He's a great actor from Galway! He’s super handsome, I think. Do you know how sexy that is?? He was the least neurotic. He loved Eve. She destroyed him. He was pitchforked because he loved Eve. Tortured because he was in the way, and depicted as abusive in fanfics. I’m sorry y’all can’t deal with men and decent, well mannered, stew cooking, reliable, codependent partners. They are a gift. Enjoy them.
Kenny. Oh, my god. I’ll never forgive that death. Kenny's death was not needed and i hope he's off doing amazing things in some other show. Bill's death was awful. That one hurt.
What a group of amazing people! Kenny and Elana and Bill and Konstantine and Carolyn. And Hugo! Loved Hugo and his fried chicken. Croissants, hungover M15 meetings on the weekends. I loved Frank. I love that actor too! He was in “Imagine Me & You”, little homosexuals, he was in that movie! and the whole first season was extraordinary. I was literally scared of my reaction to that season. I was invested.
And then in a pretty strong 2nd season, Villanelle leaned caaaasually on the balustrade of a bridge in Amsterdam in a gorgeous ensemble of rare 2012 asymmetrical Alexander McQueen couture staring off into the distance thinking about idk, murder (Eve, steak knives, perfume, how perfect she, Villanelle, looks amongst the Great Unwashed) and I almost stroked out.
Tumblr media
I fainted? To say that I fell in love with her is pretty tame for what my subconscious was actually doing at that moment. Something something utter devotion to a fictional character who looks like Jodie Comer. I had the same reaction to Jule's special episode and S2Ep5 of Euphoria, when Zendaya gave a masterclass in everything.
Jodie is mesmerizing. Villanelle is mesmerizing, and she is vaguely immortal (to the "Ghost" assassin she is the embodiment of demons, faceless. And my god what a face. )
And, as it turns out, she is human. The toxins of undying love have infiltrated her—they’re eating away at her. She’s a construction: pathologized images of herself have moved her soul in several ways: she’s afraid; she feels vulnerable and in danger, dangerous. She’s fucking in LOVE. Just like that myth. Here we go.
Her life force, her passionate vitality, her chaos, her hilarity and murderous sexuality (interesting actually, that for a show showcasing so much about libidinal force, there's not much sex), her vulnerability, her queerness. Well.
Jodie was all, and I’m paraphrasing, “yes she's herself and gay as hell and I don't question it. No one does."
It almost doesn’t work. It’s almost too much. Nothing about the first season works except the idea of a monster. And Eves really naïve sense of safety. And it’s fascinating. V’s money, couture, her arrogance, her irritation, the untethered violence and confusion, her sheer glee in her flamboyant kills—was I ever more scared or turned on as she walked unhurried through the fields of Bletchem with that extremely hot look of utter calm? No, not until the Hélene kill, where she’s jealous and feral, in Season 4.
It’s probably her uncanny, austere beauty against the sunlit Pride and Prejudice English countryside. Mr. Darcy just railed you and ran over you with his car, twice.
If Jodie hadn’t played this with the exact amount of curiosity and awe during the undeniable moment on the road with Eve—recognizing their shared “both/and”—it wouldn't have taken. Sandra and Jodie got the vulnerability, the terror and threat, and the irritation and the pull—they got the irrationality exactly right, and so did PWB.
It was a simple throwaway acknowledgment of a lack of guilt (not amorality, but guilt) which belongs to the experiences of deviation—that pivots them both into the Mythos that should have really taken them from Death and The Sun into a future. I mean, the showrunners brought this up so let’s go.
Villanelle’s foray into Christ was a disaster. It was camp, and not very good at all. And I was the disaster gay who watched it. I wanted it the way Fleabag had done it, "Quaker Meeting. You're not allowed to speak. If The Spirit moves you to speak, you have to stand up and share it with everyone. It's Very Intense. It's Very Quiet. It's Very, Very Erotic."
Neither of them has the impulse to repair, except with each other.
But I have a real impulse to repair a shitstorm of a tarot reading. One of the funnier moments at the end. "Don't shove the Sun, Eve.”
Writer rooms? Writers? Do your research. Villanelle has always been the Revelation. She’s always been liberation. She’s ferocious.
And Carolyn knew her. She told her. You can’t find yourself outside of yourself. You’re good at what you are. She’s always been the Sun. The Sun is not a wholly comfortable place for anyone, there are 19 stages to get there I believe? You go thru Death to unification and completion. The numinous roots down into Being.
Enlightenment bears the same characteristics in all people, it is an experience—not an idea. You feel struck by a burst of light and suddenly the world is seen or felt as spiritual and eternal rather than a day-to-day existence of drudgery and confusion. You feel totally alive with a childlike joy that most children never really know—for you have gone beyond your childish fear of darkness by traveling through it.... Here we will see happiness. Here there is victory.
They got Villanelle right! She’s always been a preternaturally gorgeous, spellbinding, sadistic child who tortures and murders her way thru everyone Eve cares for just to get her attention. Why? For love. And power. And Villanelle goes perfume shopping. And she wants out of her golden cage. And Eve’s soul finds the God in the assassin.
So, the heartbreaking thing. She is the Sun. She and Sandra embodied and played every moment of beauty in the final episode. Jodie and Sandra had free rein with Eve and Villanelle, they gave them this moment. Eve crossed over to her. Eve made the descent into the underworld. She had yet to come out unless Eros claimed her. Psyche, or Soul reached the end. To hope for nothing, to expect nothing, to demand nothing. Eve reached analytical despair. Some otherworldly alchemy had to happen. Eve’s big, gorgeous, wonderful mind stopped. And all her intelligence asked for love, and she asked for help.
I could cry with how much they fucked this up. I did cry.
It’s just a card, Eve.
“Your “ego” is only a mask, never releasing energy—it fights even sexual climax, for at that moment it must partially dissolve. Accept the death of your “ego” mask and your fears will dissolve as you experience a new maturity and new freedom of energy. Simply give up the old “ego” mask and allow the transformation to take place.  By force of will and with the help of a guide…”
The Death card is neither here nor there. It’s just mere mortal-grade standard transformation. It ends, however, in ecstasy.
Sidebar: l love that V landed in a simulacrum of her fantasy Alaskan life with Eve and Gunn was as insufferable as V had once been and V was over it and noped out immediately.
SG and LN signed off on an ending that is godawful and abjectly literal. It was mean-spirited and unimaginative. It was a betrayal of Eve and of Villanelle. Not only did we have to endure the tediously morally punitive ending of a show I really enjoyed, not only did I have to navigate real grief and saying goodbye to characters that delighted me, all of whom I so absolutely in love with (Martin!), so annoyed by—Laura Neal and co. added an extra layer of pain and screwed up a unwieldy, funny, batshit insane love story between two idiots. I was down for that. It could have worked! Nice life, cool flat, fun job. Someone to watch tv with. We’ll never see this particular constellation onscreen again.
Death is the end, in the final seasons very mainstream interpretation of reckoning. It’s like, someone got uncomfortable with a hurricane and panicked. Unless there’s a reboot. Which, who knows, it’s happened. I’ll kiss Konstantine when he fishes V out of the Thames.
They were both exasperating and irreplaceable. If I was Eve? I'd drown myself. It’s that simple and that stupid.
Psyche and Eros ends with a marriage, and immortality. It is triumphant. It’s one of the oldest, wildest and eeriest and best stories in the western canon. Greek myths and the Pantheon are petty, fractured, vengeful, brutal, blood-soaked and a fair approximation of the Mystery.
So let me back up. With all the mess of Showrunners switching off between each season (and they basically all said that was a major mistake for everyone involved), and loose ends, and weird kills and lost characters and promising alliances and dumbass character dev.... You had Jodie Comer and Sandra Oh (AND THE OTHER CAST MEMBERS) serving everything they had in the last few episodes, and throughout the uneven seasons and honestly in most episodes. The actors got it exactly right.
I’ve read Jodie and Sandra especially were pretty much given free range. Their giddy and tentative beauty and joy, THE UTTER JOY IN THE LAST EPISODE, was ravishing for 42 minutes. Weren’t you ravished? I was crying through the whole thing. Jodie cried all day and night on the last day onset—when they shot the last sequence.
I’m so sad. And so tired of writers who think they know better than their characters and the very powerful emotions they invoke. That ending, well, that was certainly a choice.
A friend who has minimal investment in this clown car said that you really had to work hard to screw up that amount of beauty and fun and love. Like, that took work.
I’m so so tired and heartbroken.
Give two psychos in a fictional, ridiculous universe a happy ending. And never, ever use the word problematic in a serious discussion about it.
Thank you, Killing Eve cast. I hope to see you all again soon.
Tumblr media
From Joy all beings have come, by Joy they all live, and unto Joy they all return. - The Upanishads
@orangeyouglad8 I got snacks and said something
37 notes · View notes
loving-villanelle · 2 years
Note
"What does it feel like to get it SO wrong?" Lol Kayleigh girl we feel you. That's the only sentence to describe the finale and the shit takes Laura has about it.
But really, how can you get it so wrong when it has been so simple? This last season GAVE us Villanelle wanting to be good (for Eve, for to be loved), wanting to stop killing, actively getting away from the Twelve nonsense. It also GAVE us Eve embracing her darkness, not giving a fuck about anything and being on this suicide mission not caring if she died. It also gave us Eve saying in the second to last episode "I survived but for what?". She had already kind of completed the mission and Villanelle was not there to distract her. She had every chance to go back to "normal", - hell, to be carefree and happy with Yusuf even - (who clearly cared about Eve a lot) but she didn't want that, because that didn't feel like ANYTHING. Eve CHOSE to continue with the killing spree, she chose to be with Villanelle and for the first time in the whole series we saw both Eve and Villanelle truly happy together. It was like all of the pieces finally had clicked. They accepted that they have hurt each other and forgave each other. It was so so beautiful to witness their happiness when they finally were with the person who "loves you and understands your very soul". There was so much freedom and acceptance in that they can truly be who they are, all the bad and the good, and be loved. They had everything they both have been craving all along. Both the excitement and danger and the domesticity and "normalcy".
And then, what? We're supposed to suddenly believe that when Eve was dancing with the strangers she was like "oh wait, here is where I'm happy, this is what I want" and V killing just because that's all she's made of? We're supposed to see, that after everything the end take is just "they realize they are different and want different things"? That is so unbelievably stupid that I can't even.
When Eve was dancing, she was happy and free because of Villanelle. Villanelle had the strength to kill the 12 because for the first time in her life she had something to fight for, her future with Eve. I don't understand how delusional or homophobic you have to be to not get that. It was written from the very start, you can't just chance the course and fuck up the meaning of the show in the very last minute.
That's exactly what she did though. She fucked up the meaning of the show in the last minute. I have seen numerous posts that basically say "if you had asked me what Killing Eve was like before 4x08 I would've told you one answer, but after 4x08, I would give you a completely different response". Because the show and these characters have almost become unrecognizable to us. Jodie and Sandra are absolute powerhouses who saved this season. They did, because without them I wouldn't have even bothered finishing the series. That's what just makes this all the more heartbreaking though. This is was the grand finale. The last chance to write as much quality content for Villaneve as possible. And instead of honoring their story and their journey, Laura decided to create one of her own making. Instead of ensuring that they ended up in the same room together, she ensured that they were torn apart in the most vile and cruel of ways I can ever recall bearing witness to.
35 notes · View notes
Text
KILLING EVE 4X07 SPOILERS WAAAAA
waaaa. waaa (nervously)
keep being sad for pam. and worried for carolyn
GUNN'S ISLAND?? MF OWNS AN ISLAND??
oh these lil guys. these goats <33
man i will admit i love this on vill. very good large ass poncho
Oh There Is A Man? whomst. THAT MOSS ROOF OMW YES
villanelle master of spycraft. THE MAN IS BEING DRAGGED??? villanelle looks so confused omw. Oh He's Been,,, oh GROSS WTF
eve?? nice outfit. fucking Aye for sandra oh <33 man i love her & good music.
who is this person....... has eve eloped....? GOOD FOR HER BUT WHAAAA. Love these looks <3
wait whose phone is this. HELENE OH
"a new ordinary" yusuf honey dyou even Know
THEY'RE GONNA PUT THE F IN FUN?? i Love seeing her happy but oh goodness i'm so worried.
WAIT IS EVE GONNA SING. these actors must have had so much fun omw DAYUM
ohh,,,,,,,,, the karaoke flashback. bill. niko,,,, her dress.....but wow she actually Does have a singing voice & oh these actors i missed so wholeheartedly,,, EVE OH MY ABSOLUTE WORD. i love her so much,, the trauma omw. NO SHE'S ABOUT TO CRY
why is it just about "bearing" yk? Oh He was a Soldier; makes sense.
"what if i don't want to?" oh. oh eve,,,, crying
this was SUCH A GOOD IDEA MS NEAL watch me sob this whole episode.......
THAT'S SO MEAN YUSUF,,, but i totally get it. oh that's actually so tender of him, i'm so worried about eve. tbf though i think it's good for him to be out of the picture somehow?
KONSTANTIN BAHA. IRINA WHAT OMW IRINA. IRINA???
of Course she calls her shithead. poor konstantin,,,,,, am waiting on cuba somehow
oh how the Hell is carolyn coping folks. Oh No there come some Guys.
ANGRY SANTA CLAUS BAHA. of Course he's heavy on the foam. she's gonna get it on, yep. there it is
carolyn Is traitoring left right and centre yes
"a pain in the posterior" LMAO. oh the Barn Swallow,,,,, hmmmmm. she IS the very best yes
oh she is Smiling mmmmm i'm not surprised she is apathetically willing to die
beloved villanelle. silly chaotic woman
"is that what you shot me with" LMFAO
OF COURSE SHE WENT TO THE THERAPIST BAHA. the Nervous Energy omw,, oh he's so patient. SHE USED TO PLAY BRIDGE
EVE WE KNOW HE WAS AWFUL BUT LIKE WHAT
"and unbelievably, i survived". yeah well done for what WHAT THE FUCK THE FOURTH WALL BREAK
"some joy in the little things",,,, crying that was never enough for her was it?
"go to the people that love you" WE KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN OH MY WORD. OH MY WORDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD. if it's villanelle,,,,,
oh babe eve,,,,,, her hands are shaking
"that woman cradling you in margate" BAHAHA.
see, but Did eve rot her,,,,,? or did she give her a version of her true self that they both continuously ignored for reasons.
OH YEAH PAM WAS A KILLER EMBALMER BAHA. am Laughing
"worms? they are Nutritious" what Music behind this
i suppose alcohol would be easy to make w all her fruit & stuff but Blegh poor vill. yeah why Did gunn want her dead
GUNN'S ENTIRE VILLAGE?? i am So not surprised that she got the island from helene
Big Bitch indeed.
THAT SEEMED TO BE AN INTENTIONAL POISONING UHHHHH. GUNN.........
go eve do your thing girly. the Look on eve's face. OH SHE APOLOGISED AW
LONG STORY. OFC WOMEN WILL KILL HIM BAHA
the twelve went DIGITAL WHATTTTT. i am So Glad he laughed at this International Crime Org doing Digital Bird Postcards.... "very dead" BAHA EVE
poor konstantin. Why Would She Find Villanelle. OHHHHHH VILLANELLE AND GUNN FUCK
the upset in eve's face & the konstantin encouragement alfjaljd am dying </3 she Knows baha
pam Does suit the little hat :] but oof the worry
we have nearly only eleven minutes left am scared. this poor beige birder man
EVE IN MUSTARD. good for Her.
oh gunn........... oh no. oh of course,,,, THE RUSSIAN POP BAHA konstantin are you okay,,,,
oh yeah pam isn't adjusted to the leaving huh
konstantin,,,,,, loving man,,,,, crying. what if they find them,,,,
my excessive use of commas is indeed an indication of my nerves folks am sorry.
Yeah. fear is in my blood moment. glad pam is getting out of it. DID SHE KILL KONSTANTIN NOOOOOO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOOOOOOOOOOO IT WAS HELENE...... NOOOOOÒOOOOOOOOOOO
i,,,,,, will cry,,,,, the moment i saw that pizza roller,,,,
he didn't deserve to die like this. NOOOO PAMMMMM WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL HER :[[[[
babe,,,,, pam,,,, oh pam my dearest. (i am crying feel like i should warn everyone)
pam is whimpering....... oh the letter for carolyn..... oh this Music. OH CAROLYN AND OH THE "I'M SO PROUD OF YOU" I AM CRYING,,,,,, oh,,, she keeps holding him. the shock. cry
SHE LAID HIM TO REST. OMWWWWWW
konstantin, rest in peace. i'm so sorry it had to end like that sir :[
IS EVE IN THE SPEEDBOAT
of course she is yeah. oh THANK FUCK THEY DIDN'T LEAVE US THERE
she used her Boat for Firewood of course she did. that seems a bit presumptuous, to have her sleep there just bc.
Villanelle Staring At Immobile Objects #2. THE TENDER KISS ON THE HEAD
"i'm leaving" yeah Valid. No Violence Gunn. NO GUNN. NO
OFC SHE'S RUNNING AWAY FROM A WOMAN W A SHOTGUN SLASH KNIFE WTFFFFF
EVE THIS WAS SUCH A BAD TIME DUMBASS
OH SHIT EVE. yeah Run yeah Run. DUMBASS OMW AND VILLANELLE IS JUST LOOKING ON.
of Course they'd leave us at that they Love the death scare. villanelle will probably end up killing her next episode first ten minutes,,,, AAAAAAA THIS WAS A BRILLIANT EPISODE THOUGH WTF
10 notes · View notes
plotbunnyslayer · 2 years
Text
Killing Eve Finale
I woke up today still filled with a sense of disbelief. Did that really happen last night? I don't follow that many KE tumblr accounts, but a quick search shows that I am not the only one who feels this way.
Going into this last episode, I had various scenarios in my head on how it would all end. Would the assassin be assassinated? That was my running guess because it's the expected ending. Too cliche, but since when have tv writers ever tried anything original as of late. So I had an inkling Villanelle wouldn't survive. I even thought that she might die saving Eve. What was the point over the last 4 seasons if that obsessions doesn't end in some kind of selfless sacrifice?
So I was all set for this big moment.
But then the ambiguous ship became canon halfway through the episode. And not in a confession and gentle kiss sort of way. But in a full giddy, make out as we walk down the road followed by a (possible) camper romp.
And then the dread set in. Because the "upcoming death" was confirmed the moment the tarot cards came out. My sister, sitting next to me during out finale watch party, was getting annoyed at my ability to both predict the 'lovers' and 'death' cards and my guess at who was going to die and how.
I told her about red herrings and how Eve getting the death card was the biggest, most obvious red herring that I've even seen. And that Villanelle's sun card practically sealed her fate.
Villanelle was going to die and she'd do it saving Eve.
What an ironic twist given the title of the show.
I hate to be wrong, but I never wanted to be more wrong as I was last night as I watched the show.
Even Variety called the finale a "betrayal"
What really gets me is some of the reaction that I've seen from some Clexa accounts. People who rallied against Bury Your Gays saying that just because the queer person dies doesn't automatically make it BYG. And yeah, that's true. But in this case.... to be fair it seems that these people never really watched KE so they don't know about the queer baiting this show has done over the years.
6 years ago, when Lexa was killed off, Clexa fans were left with a total of 2 kisses (in two different seasons and 1 love scene....well the afterglow of a love scene).
KE fans had 4 seasons of this obsessive tension that spanned the entire show. And it culminated in this explosion of feeling and action by these two characters. Flirting, kissing, so much kissing, banter and just this look of finally finding their person.
It made the ending so much worse. I never expected Villanelle and Eve to ride off into the sunset together in complete bliss. But to give fans that and then just rip it away and then try to explain that the heart wrenching scream Eve gives is of survival and not grief just blows my fucking mind.
I'm still trying to understand the thought process that went into this last season. I didn't have much hope when the very first episodes featured Villanelle interacting with Jesus, who took Villanelle's form.
This last season was a shit show.
I mean when asked about the finale, Jodie Comer said that the only thing good about it was that she got to film her last scene together with Sandra Oh. And the fact that both leads weren't out promoting the series finale.
That speaks volumes.
From the head writer:
Neal doesn’t see Villanelle’s demise as tragic, either. For her, the character has simply ascended to a new plane of existence—an explanation that may help fans feel less upset about the finale. Villanelle’s body floating away in the Thames was also an opportunity to allow Eve to finally move on from the obsessive, problematic relationship between the pair.
“In my head, that’s not a death of Villanelle. That’s the elevation of Villanelle to another realm.”
Hard pass.
Villanelle could have still died saving Eve and I would have been perfectly okay with that. But to put all that other stuff in the episode first and then do this was over the top and unnecessary. It was the ultimate queer bait. I didn't even attempt to ship these two because I never thought that the showrunners would 'go there'. They'd never make these strong women leads into a canon ship. Never. But of course they do at the 11th hours and it just goes to shit. Forever.
9 notes · View notes
pynkhues · 2 years
Note
I just read your KE finale analysis, and I totally agree. I’m not sure if you typically take KE asks, but I was wondering who your fav character was? I love Villanelle (even though she’s done some terrible stuff lol) Jodie Comer is just so talented.
Thank you so much! I take asks for anything really, haha, I've just never really gotten Killing Eve ones before, so these have been pretty fun.
I love a lot of the characters in Killing Eve, and while I adore Villanelle a lot (like you said, Jodie's fantastic!), Eve really is my favourite. I just love Sandra Oh, and I'm particularly interested in character arcs which involve a person's moral decline (in case you couldn't tell from all my GG love, haha). At the show's best, it explored Eve's intrigue so well, and the emotional complexity and sort of - - mmm, I guess I'd say fracture of identity that came along with that.
I especially loved the way her attraction to who Villanelle was and what she represented just burned a hole through her life, and the way Eve was never entirely sure if she should stamp the fire of that out or fan the embers of it was just so rich and interesting.
To me, Eve was always a character self-immolating to see what would grow out of the ash of her, and I find that just so wildly compelling. The fact that it was so well realised by Sandra Oh, and involved the crazy, sexy, emotionally rich chemistry with Jodie Comer's Villanelle too was just confetti to me, haha.
7 notes · View notes
Bury Your Gays: Villanelle vs Lexa
I've now been checking out all of the Killing Eve finale reactions on YouTube and here on Tumblr. And there was one thing that kept popping up that just made me kind of go 'hmm'...
Fyi, this is just my personal opinion. If you don't like or you think it's going to upset you, please do not read.
Tumblr media
Lexa was definitely a Bury Your Gays. Her death did not make sense within the story or for her character. While there were obvious reasons for the character to be written out due to circumstances going on bts, the way they wrote her out was terrible. She didn't need to die, and even if she did for " story reasons" (she didn't), it shouldn't have been done the way that it was. It should have been handled a lot better. Lexa was a Grounder, a warrior, and for her to die by a wayward gunshot meant for Clarke by one of her own lackeys -- that was just stupid. (and as we see, the caliber of writing only got worse from there) There were many other ways for that character to die that was worthy of her character and her story line, to the massive impact she had on Clarke's story and this alliance/interaction with the Sky People and the Grounders (alongside the story lines of Octavia, Lincoln, and Indra) that ends up heavily influencing and impacting the rest of the story of the series. They killed her that way because JRoth has a massive ego and is an idiot the writing got lazy and they thought it would be a shocking twist that 'oooo no one would see coming'. Yeah, no one saw it coming because it was stupid and made no sense, but I digress.
Moving on.
Tumblr media
I don't think Villanelle was a Bury Your Gays and certainly not similar to what happened to Lexa. Villanelle's death (whether you agree with it or not) made sense within the story, for her character. While I don't necessarily agree with the show going the death route, those who have watched since season 1 I think always kind of knew that there was a possibility of Villanelle dying before the show was over, Eve dying, or both. Villanelle was an assassin and the organization she had been a part of was just eradicated. First Helene, then Konstantin, then the Twelve. It didn't surprise me that the last remnant of that organization was the last to go. (some may claim Pam was a part of the Twelve, too, but the show purposely chose her to end Konstantin and to turn down the job Carolyn offered her and walk away)
I guess my point is that ending was viable within Killing Eve's story line, within Villanelle's trajectory as a character, while Lexa's was not. That's the difference.
I admit, I was reluctant to check out any articles on the response to the finale at first, especially seeing Tumblr posts about Laura Neal's comments (yeah, sometimes I wonder if these showrunners are drinking the same water as the rest of us), but I'm so glad I read this one where Sandra Oh and Jodie Comer also chime in. (they're the two I care about tbh) I really agreed with their takes on their characters' endings and I respect the hell out of them.
I will say, I'm so glad they didn't have Eve dying and Villanelle surviving because that to me would not have made sense. Realistic if they both took on the Twelve, but definitely more tragic, and would have made me wonder what the whole point of Eve's story was. To me, this end result makes way more sense.
Do I wish showverse!Villaneve got an HEA? Absolutely. But I also really like everything we were given and that nothing was wrapped up in a neat little bow. But I also like that not everything was left open-ended (other than Eve's question of moving on in her life). To me, that was the right semblance of tragedy that made sense with the show. But that's just my personal opinion.
I'm sorry for people who are hurting. I really am. I mean, GoT, SPN, The 100, Lexa, Dean...trust me, I get it. My heart goes out to you all and I just know the fans are going to create some amazing masterpieces of fanfiction and fanart and fan videos while also some are now going to read the books (not giving away any spoilers but they are not the same, I will just say that). And I hope that all of that can ease some of the pain. <3
8 notes · View notes
mermaidsirennikita · 2 years
Note
I fully thought you were gonna go off about the Killing Eve series finale in your tragic ships vocaroo 😅 since it's very topical rn
I mean, definitely gave them a thought, but I never got into Killing Eve besides like the first 5...? Episodes? In part because I kinda knew where the tide was turning for that show and idk. When I'm watching a queer love story, I'm more about happiness than tragedy. And in part because I couldn't stand the fandom obsession with Villanelle to the point that Eve's journey was like... ignored?
Idk, I tried the show because I love Sandra Oh. I felt like she wasn't getting enough focus.
3 notes · View notes
rosadiazofficial · 1 year
Text
Tumblr media
I posted 192 times in 2022
11 posts created (6%)
181 posts reblogged (94%)
Blogs I reblogged the most:
@strange-aeons
@rosadiazofficial
@doubleca5t
@biggest-gaudiest-patronuses
I tagged 39 of my posts in 2022
#gcse mocks - 18 posts
#2023 cohort - 18 posts
#killing eve - 4 posts
#villanelle - 4 posts
#jodie comer - 3 posts
#sandra oh - 3 posts
#eve polastri - 3 posts
#fuck you laura neal - 3 posts
#laura neal - 3 posts
#gcse maths - 3 posts
Longest Tag: 102 characters
#tomorrow is two history papers and a geography paper so tune in tomorrow for me complaining about them
My Top Posts in 2022:
#5
I'm girlbossing (sitting on my bed staring into space forgetting I even exist)
0 notes - Posted September 30, 2022
#4
How the fuck did I lose like 30 followere
0 notes - Posted July 22, 2022
#3
HELLO LITTLE GAY PEOPLE IN NY PHONE HAPPY PRIDE
0 notes - Posted June 2, 2022
#2
I'm so upset by the ending of killing eve that I have genuinely started writing my own season 5 just to deal with my own grief
12 notes - Posted April 19, 2022
My #1 post of 2022
gcse mocks started today and it has been Super Fun
17 notes - Posted November 7, 2022
Get your Tumblr 2022 Year in Review →
0 notes
wearevillaneve · 2 years
Text
Tumblr media
226 notes · View notes
oksanaastankova · 2 years
Photo
Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media
You can’t. I can.
813 notes · View notes
loving-villanelle · 2 years
Note
Having been religiously following all the cast interviews and reviewers' thoughts since the start of S4, I'm now like 99.99% certain that either V or Eve kill each other. All this talk about the scorpion and the frog since the start fits perfectly with that dynamic.
It also aligns with how Sandra and Jodie have emphasised that "the story led them there truthfully/it's true to the characters" etc. etc. because let's be honest, the KE team never believed these two could have a lasting romance. They've repeatedly said they're doomed from the start.
Imo, that's gonna be a worse ending than the two of them dying because of the Twelve. Surely some of us expected the Twelve being the death of them, and it would've been plausible but we'd never expect V or Eve to turn on each other again so that's the surprise factor they're going for. I think they firmly believed the Eve and V would always be the death of each other and they're now simply acting on it. (Remember Sandra's interview? "Eve realises that to reach her end, it must be with V" or something along those lines)
And it'll be oh so disappointing to see that play out because it'll throw all the character development out the window and quite literally tarnish their entire relationship once we see how it ended. I mean if they had to kill each other, could've just done it in Season 1 and call it a day, y'know? Sure that would've been disappointing in its own right cuz it wouldn't have the ~build-up~ but would've saved us the agony of this back and forth for more than 4 years.
I'm betting that's what's gotten everyone so disappointed.
Also, sorry to put this negativity in your asks but I've just got SO many thoughts and theories and have no one else to share them with :(
"The story led them there truthfully/it's true to the characters"
If one kills the other, you will never in 197064469 years be able to convince me that their story truthfully led them there or that it's true to the characters.
Even in season 1, Eve didn't really want to kill Villanelle. The second she stabbed her, she immediately regretted it and was saying "let me help you."
When Villanelle shot Eve, she was so clearly struggling to move on after and was so relieved when she found out that she was still alive.
These are not two women who have ever truly wanted the other dead. So if KE brings us to that conclusion, it'll be the biggest joke in the history of television because I can't think of anything that would be more untrue to the characters. That wouldn't be where their journey truthfully led them, it would be the show literally just erasing 4 seasons of growth and connection and discovery and development.
If they wanted to go the "they'll be the death of each other" route, why not at least make it beautiful? Why not make it that they were so drawn to each other and found it so impossible to stay away from each other that they just couldn't help themselves, even knowing they were risking their lives. Then have them go down together. I have said from the beginning that I could live with that happening. If they died but it was with each other, that would be truthful because we already know how impossible it is for them to stay out of each other's orbits.
What I couldn't live with is one of them betraying the other and killing them. Not after everything they've been through. Not after 3x08, which they can't just pretend didn't happen because it did. If I stuck with this show for 4 years for an ending like that, I can't think of a worse ending quite honestly and how anyone on the KE production team could've greenlit it would absolutely boggle my mind. How anyone could think an ending like that is glorious or triumphant or funny or "a little bit" heartbreaking. That would be a lot bit heartbreaking. That would be ripping out the heart of your audience, stomping on it, and giving them the middle finger for good measure. No one wants that. Even casual viewers who don't necessarily view Villaneve as romantic (all 2 of them) are rooting for them and don't want to see their dynamic and their relationship be destroyed by something that ridiculous.
But this whole season has been ridiculous, in my opinion, and I never thought Eve would betray Villanelle. So what the hell do I know
27 notes · View notes
moonflowergayy · 3 years
Photo
Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media
-Sue Zhao
486 notes · View notes
saphiiiic · 4 years
Video
Why did this sound like she was talking about reuniting with a lover she hadn’t seen in a while aksksdksskkd. 
455 notes · View notes
eadazuq-nara · 4 years
Text
Tumblr media Tumblr media
Villanelle when she inevitably runs into her Spanish wife while she's with Eve
62 notes · View notes