#I'm not one of the people who think israel has absolutely no right to exist. but i think if this country as a collective stands so strog in

[gothhabiba]

Hi, this is very ignorant. I'm trying to read as much as I can on Palestine and Zionism but there is one point I cannot find an answer for. Given that Zionism is not Judaism, given that at the beginning most Jewish people did not share this view and was actually supported by christians with antisemitic views, given that it was conceptualized as a colonial project that could only be actualized by ethnically cleanse Palestine, one thing I don't know how to disagree with Zionists is the idea that Jewish people do come from that land. Even if European jews are probably not genetically related to the Jewish people from there, I think Jewishness is something that can be constructed as related to that land. This of course does not mean that Palestinians are not natives too and they have every right to their land. However I don't really know how to answer when Jewish (Zionists) tell me that Jewish people fled that land during the diaspora. Other than "yeah but the people that stayed are native that underwent christianization before, arabization later, grew a sense of nationhood in the 19th century and are Palestinians now"

It's a fundamental misunderstanding of what "indigeneity" is to believe that it means "whoever has the oldest claim to the land." Rather, to describe a people as "indigenous" is a reference to their current relationship to the government and to the land—namely that they have been or are being dispossessed from that land in favour of other private owners (settlers); they have a separate, inferior status to settlers according to the law, explicitly; they are shut out of institutions created by the settler state, explicitly; they are targeted implicitly by the laws of the settler state (e.g. Israeli prohibitions against harvesting wild thyme or using donkeys or horses for transportation); the settler state does not punish violence against them; &c. &c.

It is a settler-colonialist state that creates indigeneity; without one, it is perfectly possible for immigrants to move to and live in a new location without becoming settlers, with the superior cultural and legal status and suppression of a legally inferior population that that entails.

If all that were going on were some Jewish people feeling a personal or religious connexion to this land and wanting to move there, accepting the existing people and culture and living with them, not expelling and killing local populations and creating a settler-colonialist state that privileges them at the expense of extant populations, that would be a completely different situation. But any assertion of the land's fundamental Jewish-ness (really they mean white or European Jewishness—the Jewish Arabs who were already in Palestine never seem to figure in these arguments) is a canard that distracts from the fundamental issue, which is a people's right to resist dispossession, ethnic cleansing, and genocide.

Decolonize Palestine lays out some of the ethnic and cultural history of the region, but follows it up with:

So, what does this all mean for Palestine? Absolutely nothing. Although the argument has many ahistorical assumptions and claims, it is not these which form its greatest weakness. The whole argument is a trap. The basic implication of this line of argumentation is as follows: If the Jewish people were in Palestine before the Arabs, then the land belongs to them. Therefore, the creation of Israel would be justified. From my experience, whenever this argument is used, the automatic response of Palestinians is to say that their ancestors were there first. These ancestors being the Canaanites. The idea that Palestinians are the descendants of only one particular group in a region with mass migrations and dozens of different empires and peoples is not only ahistorical, but this line of thought indirectly legitimizes the original argument they are fighting against. This is because it implies that the only reason Israel’s creation is unjustified is because their Palestinian ancestors were there first. It implies that the problem with the argument lies in the details, not that the argument as a whole is absolute nonsense and shouldn’t even be entertained. The ethnic cleansing, massacres and colonialism needed to establish Israel can never be justified, regardless of who was there first. It’s a moot point. Even if we follow the argument that Palestinians have only been there for 1300 years, does this suddenly legitimize the expulsion of hundreds of thousands? Of course not. There is no possible scenario where it is excusable to ethnically cleanse a people and colonize their lands. Human rights apply to people universally, regardless of whether they have lived in an area for a year or ten thousand years. If we reject the “we were there first” argument, and not treat it as a legitimizing factor for Israel’s creation, then we can focus on the real history, without any ideological agendas. We could trace how our pasts intersected throughout the centuries. After all, there is indeed Jewish history in Palestine. This history forms a part of the Palestinian past and heritage, just like every other group, kingdom or empire that settled there does. We must stop viewing Palestinian and Jewish histories as competing, mutually exclusive entities, because for most of history they have not been. These positions can be maintained while simultaneously rejecting Zionism and its colonialism. After all, this ideologically driven impulse to imagine our ancestors as some closed, well defined, unchanging homogenous group having exclusive ownership over lands corresponding to modern day borders has nothing to do with the actual history of the area, and everything to do with modern notions of ethnic nationalism and colonialism.

I would also be careful about mentioning a sense of "nationhood" or "national identity" in this context, as it could seem to imply that people need a "national" identity (a very specific and very new idea) in order not to deserve genocide. Actually the idea that Palestinians lacked a national identity (of the kind that developed in 19th-century Europe) is commonly used to justify Zionism. Again from Decolonize Palestine:

This slogan ["A land without a people for a people without a land"] persists to this day because it was never meant to be literal, but colonial and ideological. This phrase is yet another formulation of the concept of Terra Nullius meaning “nobody’s land”. In one form or the other, this concept played a significant role in legitimizing the erasure of the native population in virtually every settler colony, and laying down the ‘legal’ and ‘moral’ basis for seizing native land. According to this principle, any lands not managed in a ‘modern’ fashion were considered empty by the colonists, and therefore up for grabs. Essentially, yes there are people there but no people that mattered or were worth considering. There is no doubt that Zionism is a settler colonial movement intent on replacing the natives. As a matter of fact, this was a point of pride for the early Zionists, as they saw the inhabitants of the land as backwards and barbaric, and that a positive aspect of Zionism would be the establishment of a modern nation state there to act as a bulwark against these ‘regressive’ forces in the east [You can read more about this here]. A characteristic feature of early Zionist political discourse is pretending that Palestinians exist only as individuals or sometimes communities, but never as constituting a people or a nation. This was accompanied by the typical arrogance and condescension towards the natives seen in virtually every settler colonial movement. That the early settlers interacted with the natives while simultaneously claiming the land was empty was not seen as contradictory to them. According to these colonists, even if some scattered, disorganized people did exist, they were not worthy of the land they inhabited. They were unable to transform the land into a modern functioning nation state, extract resources efficiently and contribute to ‘civilization’ through the free market, unlike the settlers. Patrick Wolfe’s scholarship on Australia illustrates this dynamic and how it was exploited to establish the settler colony.

#Anonymous #questions #long post / #Palestine #Israel

[ticklepinions]

Everyone should read the following. If we are a community you need to understand a few things.

Are you entitled to say anything you want due to "free speech"? Hell yeah!

Should you? Absolutely the fuck not!

The blatant racism, anti-queerness, transphobia, misogyny and fatphobia I have seen is down right abhorrent. And if you display any of these ideologies or opinions, you simply do not belong here. You shouldn't be comfortable making a safe space for yourself as you make this lovely community unsafe for the rest of us.

There is nothing political about human rights. But unfortunately that's where we are in this life. I'll try not to be biased but certain political leanings tells me all I need to know about you. POC conservatives will always make me laugh. You are nothing but a pawn for the cis/hetero/whites who don't give a shit if you live or die. Nothing but a slur, a body to dispose of. You may share their views but they are not sharing the power and privilege they have with you.

Let's talk about certain individuals who act so tough under the "big strong amurican sharing their views just to get shitted on, fucking snowflakes". Why do you want to be oppressed so badly? Why do you purposely antagonize people and then when they defend themselves you try dismissing them by saying how they're wasting their time... The irony of it all. The sheer ignorance.

I feel sorry for you people. Truly, I do. But I'll be damned if I let any of you try to tear any of us down for having opinions and ideologies (hint hint see the irony?) that fight for the rights of people who don't have them.

And let me get something clear- from the river to the sea. We all should not stop fighting till all of us are free. There are so many resources out there to educate yourself, yet you choose to remain ignorant. You do not belong here. You act as though you are better than everyone else because you have "edgy" opinions, opinions that literally call for the deaths of the marginalized and oppressed. You do not belong here. You have the gall to tell people they are wasting their time, when their sheer existence alone is putting them at risk for isolation and death (by the same bigoted people you support). You do not belong here.

If an elephant (Israel) has it's foot on a mouse's (Palestine) tail, tell me which one is truly the one at risk. There is a gen0cide going on. If Israel is trying to reclaim it's "land" why bomb it? Why destroy it? With a military with their degree they should be able to eliminate all these "terr0rists" with minimal to no "collateral damage" (aka the 30,000 innocent Palestinians, 2/3rds of which were woman and children, with countless injured, orphaned, homeless and starving). Why bomb hospitals, mosques, sacred places? Standing with Palestinian people is not antisemitism, it's anti gen0cide and war crimes (a multitude of which Israel has shamelessly committed).

And I'm not on anon. I stand for the people of Palestine. I stand for justice. I stand for equity. I stand for the freedom of all oppressed people.

And I implore everyone who follows me to educate themselves. The right path does not lead you to discriminate against the marginalized. Continue to fight my friends, continue to amplify the voices of those unheard, continue making this community and those you belong to, safe for all and unsafe for those who think otherwise.

For you @knismosexual + @littleonelee

I hope you truly reflect on how your actions impacts this entire community and the communities you live in. Until you learn how to act right, unfortunately this community isn't for you. You shouldn't feel welcome here. You shouldn't feel like you belong here. DMs are wide open if you have any thoughts. But again I say, supporting transphobic, racist, anti-queer, misogynistic, discriminatory views is not simply an "opinion" or personality to adopt. You are hurting real people, accepting the deaths and harassment that plague them every single day. You have no place in this community.

#twordpinion #tword community #tickle community #ticklepinion #tword content #tickling #important #important post #free palestine

[arunswild]

These kinds of comments really bug me because it's so clear how confused the person who wrote them is.

So let me clear this up for you, @nagashii

Israel has not stolen Palestinian culture. Of all the ridiculous claims you could make, this one is probably the most silly because it's absolutely meaningless. I'd love to hear what cultural things you think we "stole", but I'm just letting you know that whatever you think it is, you're wrong. I'm not gonna bother elaborating

You're making a very important distinction between Jews and Israel, which is great except you screwed it up. You are assuming that the existence of Jews is not dependent on the existence of Israel, while ignoring the fact that the REASON Israel exists is to protect the Jewish people. Even if there's a very Jewish person who has no interest in Israel, Israel has helped them in more ways than you can imagine. Israel gives money and aid to Jewish community and it's also gained the right to prosecute people who commit antisemitic hate crimes in other countries. So you can say that Jews are okay but Israel needs to die, but you're basically saying Jews need to die, which is, obviously, antisemitic and disgusting.

Israel doesn't have genocidal ideals, don't be idiotic. If Israel wanted to commit genocide, believe me, there would be no humanitarian aid, no warnings, no attempts to evacuate gazans. The IDF has absolutely no interest in harming anyone who isn't part of Hamas, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. The fact that Hamas uses its civilians as human shields makes this incredibly hard. I know people who are currently fighting in Gaza. Trust me, killing more people is the last thing they want. Obviously there are some morons who want to kill everyone and take Gaza back, but they're idiots and nobody really gives a shit what they think because they're being childish and narrow. Those few people do not represent Israel.

The Jewish people are absolutely and completely entitled to have a country of their own, and the fact that Israel was the land chosen has not only Historical and Traditional but also Legal reasons. I'll reblog this with links to useful explanations. As I said, Israel is essential to the continued existence of the Jewish people which means that yes, we are entitled to it. Absolutely. Whether or not all the actions of the Israeli government are okay is a completely different story. The botton line is that Israel must and will continue to exist.

Hope this helps.

#@nagashii #jewish #israel #jews #am israel hai #war #ישראבלר #antisemitism #ישראל #jumblr #israel hamas war #absurd #don't be stupid #Facts #facts don't care about your feelings

[decolonize-the-left]

You are literally going to get people killed by pushing them to vote third party. People voting third party is why Trump won in 2016, which allowed him to stack the Supreme Court with conservative garbage which is going to negatively affect us for DECADES to come (already has, since it led to the repeal of Roe v. Wade which has LITERALLY killed people). I'm baffled, because you've done so much good work on this website (like I still go back and regularly reread your posts on whiteness etc because they're so informative), but advocating for voting third party going into one of the most important elections in recent memory is actively harmful.

Like have you heard of Project 2025? In case you haven't it's literally like a 1000 page manifesto for the Republican party to reshape the federal government to essentially let the President become a dictator. It also expressly mentions plans to roll back rights for women, the LGBT community, and pretty much any other minority you can think of. I know things are bad now - not arguing that at all - but if Republicans win next year, things will get EXPONENTIALLY WORSE.

You can sit there and yell about Democrats being "just as bad" until you're blue in the face, but it's literally not true. The Democratic Party itself is obviously just another problematic institution and there are definitely Dems who showed their entire asses with supporting Israel, but like... Progressive Democrats do exist and while they're obviously not perfect, it's absolutely a step in the right direction. Not to mention Republicans literally need to cheat by gerrymandering and attacking voting rights for minorities in order to even get elected in a lot of places, whereas Democrats tend to win when more people are registered and actually show up to vote. They are not the same, and the harm they do is not the same.

Again, I have a lot of respect for the work you do, especially with your recent posts on the Palestinian genocide. But I vehemently disagree with your stance on voting third party in this upcoming election. Ideally I would love if we could vote third party and actually have multiple options that more accurately represent us as a population, but our current system is a two party one and unfortunately we literally do have to vote for the lesser of two evils, because one option sucks but preserves what little democracy we have (and gives us a chance of making it better) and one will literally bring genocide against trans people. I would personally rather not see that happen.

How can you say this and mention the Palestinian genocide in the same ask.

Democrats are getting people killed. In fact they're committing one of The worst crime against humanity possible and then only thing you're worried about is that things might get worse for gay people if a Republicans wins.

I'm the biggest queer I know. I'm native. I'm brown. I'm almost definitely on a watch list. And listen to me and understand the depth of my words when I say: my people have been oppressed the way Project2025 outlines.

And maybe you personally cared or helped us protest that. But most people didn't. In fact I can't remember the last time the US supported native rights at all.

But now that YOURE under threat I'm supposed to risk my life because the queer community can't be bothered to stop discoursing about neopronouns long enough to actual give an shit about saving the community?

Y'all got a lot of damn nerve, let me tell you.

Go bark up some other tree cuz this is not the one.

Also I'm not pushing anyone to vote 3rd party. I'm laying out facts. Facts are a Gallup poll says 63% of people would vote 3rd party. Facts are my Tumblr poll says that number is STILL at least 45% on the hellsite.

And since people are interested in voting 3rd party they should know their options. The people who say "I would vote 3rd party but they don't have support" also deserve to see the articles that said 63% of people would join them.

They deserve to know that 3rd parties currently hold a not insignificant amount percentage of support from the two main parties. 20% of votes. When 33% is an even split are good odds. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sorry, blue Fascists, but this country is in fact still a democracy and just because you Want people to vote blue doesn't mean they have to and you feeling they're the best doesn't make you right!

Other people aren't "wrong" for not wanting your conservative Jurassic party in power anymore.

They can vote how they want.

And if you see a poll that says 63% of people would rather NOT vote for either major party and your first thought is not: wow 63% is enough to elect someone we want, I'll support that.

And instead you go: how can I force them to vote for my party instead.

Then please understand it is not THEM splitting the vote. Biden will get MAYBE 40% votes. You gonna force 63% of the country to vote for someone they don't even want?

There's a name for that yeah?

How'd it work out in 2016 when y'all "forced" us to vote for Hillary by putting her on the ballot? She lost and she wasn't even actively commiting a genocide.

But you think Biden will not only earn votes from that 63% but he'll also win the election. Against trump. Which less blatantly shitty democrats have struggled to contend with?

Democrats are legitimately delusional.

Your problem is you see Democrats as being better than Republicans. While the rest of us see less and less of a difference every year. And you can only say you're "better" if you're different enough.

See this is what happens when you vote for the "lesser evil." Eventually that evil balances back out and you're left with the truth that your two main options are just evil.

Now the only people actually different enough to make that argument are third parties.

Coincidentally, that's what people are drawn to right now.

I know, go figure. It's almost like it makes sense to lose support when you consistently prop up shitty candidates nobody asked for every 4 years.

We do not have a two party system and you know that, that's why you sent this ask.

Cuz you're stressed dems might lose. Cuz you KNOW people have other options.

Good. Cuz they will lose if Biden is the democrat's nominee and Claudia de la Cruz stays in the race, which she will since she's running with PSL not democrats. So there's no competition. Her party is organized and chosen her and a VP already, she's guaranteed every one of their votes because her party works like a union does.

It's a wrap.

Biden can't use his "lesser evil" script with Claudia De La Cruz on the ballot actively challenging his genocide and imperialism.

Vote Claudia De La Cruz cuz you are a scooping water out of the Titanic trying to get 63% of Americans to think voting for a Genocidal warmonger is what's best for any of us, let alone the planet. And we didn't want him BEFORE he did any of this.

#asked #answered #voting

[matan4il]

Believe it or not it is possible for people to agree with the fact that Jews are native to the land, while simultaneously thinking that does not give them the right in the here and now to establish their own state there (and displace the people who have been living there for several hundred years).

Believe it or not, recognizing that Jews are native to the Land of Israel, while denying them the rights that come from that, is not the great line of defence you think it is.

Native rights are not conditional.

A people does not lose its right to self determination, to self rule in their ancestral land, no matter what they had done at one point in time. The Cambodian Khmer Rouge massacred at least 1.7 million people, Cambodians and other minorities living in Cambodia, but I'm sure you don't go to the blogs of Cambodians on Tumblr, to tell them that they lost the right to their state in their own land. The Japanese committed atrocities during WWII, such as the Nanjing massacre, yet no one says Japan has lost the right to exist. And of course, Nazi Germany started the bloodiest military conflict in human history, and committed the most extreme case of a genocide, which was actually industrialized. I'm looking forward to you coming off anon, to show me the asks you sent to Japanese or Germans on Tumblr, telling them they don't have a right to their own state anymore...

If the only native rights you treat as conditional, are those of the Jews, your stance is antisemitic.

2. That's before we get to the part where you distort Jewish history to vilify Jews, and their national liberation movement. Zionists absolutely did try to coexist with the Arabs in Israel.

Here's one piece on Jewish attempts to reach peace with the Arabs before the State of Israel was even established. Here's another on the Weizmann-Faisal peace agreement between Jews and Arabs in 1919, in which both sides agreed to respect and help with the national aspirations of the other side. On Faisal's part, the agreement was conditioned on Britain's promise to help create a greater unified Arab state. This was never fulfilled, so the agreement became void, too. But I think its importance is in showing the Jewish attempts at peace, and the fact that following it, Faisal wrote a favorable letter about Zionism. If Zionism had been inherently anti-Arab and hellbent on displacing Arabs, this agreement wouldn't have existed, and such a favorable view of Zionism by an Arab leader would not have been possible, not even temporarily.

Most importantly, at the moment when talk turned into practice, as the UN voted in 1947 on a suggestion to divide the Land of Israel roughly equally and create a Jewish state and an Arab one there, the Jews accepted it, the Arabs did not (the latter also rejected the 1937 Peel Commission, which suggested a similar divide, except the Arabs would get roughly 81% of the Land of Israel).

The displacement you mentioned cannot negate the native rights of Jews in Israel, because they weren't the ones who caused it. The displacement of the Land of Israel's Arabs is a result of the war the Arab leadership started, due to their rejection of what was essentially a two state solution.

If your anti-Zionist denial of Jewish rights cannot stand without blaming Jews for the decisions of the Arab leadership, it is both antisemitic, and racist, erasing the agency of Arabs.

3. Now let's go back for a second to your implication that one group displacing another from the land, where the latter has lived for centuries, negates the former's right to self determination. I'm putting aside for a second the centuries of discrimination and persecution which Jews had suffered in Israel, I'm putting aside the religious persecution (for example, how the Arabs succeeded in their campaign of harassment of Jews praying in Jerusalem, and in their demand that the British arrest Jews for blowing the shofar, praying out loud, or bringing Torah scrolls to the Western Wall, the second holiest place to Judaism, after the Temple Mount), I'm putting aside the repeated massacres of Jews, and I'll only talk about displacement, since that's what you mentioned. Because in 1929, Arab violence towards Jews in Israel resulted in the displacement and ethnic cleansing of Jewish communities from places like Hebron, where Jews have lived for THOUSANDS of years, and Gaza (to name just two of the communities harmed), almost 20 years before the State of Israel was established.

Somehow, I have a hunch that you won't come off anon to denounce the right of Palestinians to a state of their own based on this displacement and ethnic cleansing of ancient Jewish communities. Do I really need to explain why such a discriminatory application of this (very flawed) logic, in the name of anti-Zionism, is antisemitic?

But, you know. Congrats on at least not erasing the fact that Jews are native to Israel, two seconds before most of the world celebrates the birth of a Jewish man in Israel, more than 2,000 years ago.

(for all of my updates and ask replies regarding Israel, click here)

#israel #antisemitism #israeli #israel news #israel under attack #israel under fire #resources #terrorism #anti terrorism #hamas #antisemitic #antisemites #jews #jew #judaism #jumblr #frumblr #jewish #ask #anon ask

[spacelazarwolf]

I truly think the people who downplay antisemitism and act like fighting it isn’t as important as fighting other injustices do not understand that zionists can easily point to words like theirs and say: “That. That right there is why Israel needs to exist and continue what it’s doing.”

Because if Jewish life means so little to them to make them care, maybe them hearing that they’re dumbasses sabotaging the causes they believe in will.

EXACTLY!! WHICH IS WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING!!!!!!!!

and i know gentiles hate it bc then they have to give a shit abt jews, but sometimes in order to achieve liberation you have to do something you don't like. it fucking boggles my mind how non palestinian gentiles can justify last weekend's massacre as "necessary for liberation" but they can't stomach simply sitting down with jewish organizations and saying "hey what can we do to get you on board with our movement? what can we do to ensure that you don't need israel?"

like i'm sorry but if you're going to be an activist, sometimes you have to do things that seem unfair, or that are extremely unpleasant. trust me, i have not enjoyed my conversations with political zionists. but i have left them with that person asking questions they weren't asking before, asking why we should have to be the ones constantly being tossed around the globe instead of the people in the countries we live in confronting their own bigotry and hatred of us.

another thing that bothers me is the people that frame this as just "jews r white supremacists that just want to colonize and kill palestinians for fun or bc they want their land!!!!!!" if you are going to be an effective tool for palestinian liberation, or liberation of any kind, it is imperative that you understand the motivation behind your "opposition." most parents of trans kids who don't want their kids to be trans or get treatment aren't doing it bc they fucking hate their kid and would rather they die. most of the time, they genuinely care about their kid and don't want them to be hurt by this perceived evil. are they right? fuck no. but screaming at them is going to make them firmer in their beliefs. what actually helps, and i say this as someone who has actively been a part of this work, is meeting them where they're at. you can't drag them over a fence, but if you can convince them to unlock their side of the gate, you have a much better chance of getting them to come through to the other side.

obviously this doesn't work with people like the transphobic politicians who are making these laws, and it won't work for bibi and his party. but if your target is diaspora jews who support zionism, it absolutely will work, because i have seen it work. if you approach them with patience and understanding and a willingness to address the concerns you have, you are a billion times more likely to be successful in getting them to join the fight. anything less than compassion is allowing yourself to become a tool of the israeli government and the institutions that support it.

#ask avishai #i/p

[latent-thoughts]

The Jews weren't the first natives in that region. The Canaanites were there before the Jews showed up to violently erase them from existence for the terrible crime of not being of Yahweh's choosen people. All Jews know this. It is literally in the fucking book. You know this.

Don't lie in order to defend the idea that Israel is a thing that absolutely must exist. It's fine that you believe that idea, but what's getting irksome is this underlying insistence that "Israel must exist" is an obvious conclusion to the region's problems and anyone who has a modicum of moral fiber in their soul can clearly see that. Your religion isn't true to the people who aren't you. I do not recognize the Jews as a chosen, special sort of people and I shouldn't be expected to. And, yes, I can tell when it's expected because they'll get annoyed when I mention the Canaanites. Yeah, I've seen the eye-rolls, the "history's a complex mess so I'm justified in picking and choosing what events humanity should give a shit about based on how recent they are and how much the directly affect MY culture" bullshit, the accusations of antisemitism despite the fact that I would be completely fine with the existence of Israel if the people who made it didn't, well, slaughter the families of Canaanites in order to do so. Also, Israel isn't a person or a type of person, it's a state, it's completely fine to hate and isn't synonymous with hating Jews. If you think that it is, I'm going to remind you that people who aren't Jewish exist and they don't need to necessarily have the values Jews want them to in order to good people.

If the foundation of your state is built on moving into land that isn't yours and erasing the people that your god doesn't want there, it's completely reasonable to expect that other states might just return that favor in kind. After all, you set the precedent, right? And then constantly referred to it in your holy texts like it was the best, most necessary thing that ever needed to happen. That kind of zeal certainly won't spread.

Oh boy, I'm going to say it. I think that all of the states that have ever engaged in and justified (I'm going to say it) genocidal behavior aren't really... y'know worth defending? Worth giving a shit about? And yeah, saying "God needed us to do it! We are the chosen people! HOLY LAND!" is a shitty justification. Objectively shitty. Jewish people aren't the chosen people to anyone else besides other Jewish people. Nothing really wrong with that, but... nothing really that right with it either. It kinda cancels itself out.

Long ask, I know. Whatever. Stop lying. The Canaanites were there before the Jews. The Jews killed them all then called the land they stole from them "Israel". See? There are perfectly good reasons to hate Israel that have nothing to do with Palestine.

C'mon, the Americas had fucking slavery. England tried to take over the world. Hell, Germany tried to kill all of you! Israel is another shitty place. It isn't special.

I vow to ignore Israel from now on, achieving everlasting peace and making the entire Middle East envious of me.

Oh, and to be absolutely clear in the most awkward manner possible, I don't hate the Jews. I just find their bullshit to be really fucking annoying.

If the Jews killed them all, how is it that their DNA is still dominant in modern day Jews (plus Palestinians and other populations of Levant)?

The truth is that both Jews and Palestinians were part of the same people at some point in time, who also mixed with Canaanites and settled in the region that is modern day Israel+Levant. And Canaanites' ancestors had actually arrived in that region from further East.

So by your logic, then, even the Canaanites weren't the natives of that land.

(There may have been tribal wars, as was common in that era, but it's pretty clear that no one wiped out anyone.)

We can keep going back in time to disprove the indigeneity of people till we arrive in Africa. Which is kind of moronic, TBH.

Personally, I'm not denying the indigeneity of either Jews or Palestinians. Only you are trying to justify your hatred for Jews and denying that they have a right to live in their homeland. Just by saying that you don't hate Jews doesn't veil your anti-semitism.

Both Jews and Palestinians deserve to live there. A two state solution is one way for it. Terrorism by Hamas isn't.

Furthermore, if you know your history (which I'm having doubts about), you know that Jews were persecuted and driven out of almost all the countries and kingdoms they had moved to over the centuries. There were Jews in the Middle Eastern countries, African countries, Europe, etc.. Tell me what happened to them. If you can't, you don't understand why Jews wanted a country of their own, in their native homeland.

With the exception of India, they were either killed, forcefully converted, or driven out of these countries at some point in time. The Holocaust is just one such instance over the centuries, and it was a big deal. The present day rising anti-semitism only strengthens their belief that they're never fully accepted in other places. Hence their need for self determination and separate state of their own (which they already have, btw).

Also, I know you didn't bother to check before coming in my inbox to spew venom, but I'm not Jewish. I'm not even from that region. But I understand what it means to have a history that's full of massacres and genocide of my people.

Plus, I'm someone who likes to stay informed, someone who's against anti-semitism. I don't need to be a Jew to understand where they're coming from.

#antisemitism #jews #jewish #jewish history #Israel #anon ask #troll anons #istg these anons are so annoying

[mylight-png]

You know what absolutely baffles me about the pro-Hamas/anti-Israel movement?

If you ask the people who consider themselves part of that movement whether they would ever choose to align themselves with the Taliban, ISIS, Al Qaeda or Chinese government, or Russian government, or North Korea, or Erdogan (of Turkey), or Maduro (of Venezuela) then the answer would be a resounding "No!"

Because all of those people, groups, and regimes are notorious for their violations of human rights. Everyone knows of how Russia treats queer people and their actions in Ukraine (and in history in general). Everyone, or at least most people, are aware of China's mistreatment of the Ughyrs. Most wouldn't hesitate to recognize and often condemn ISIS and Al Qaeda as violent terrorist groups with negative intent. Maduro and Erdogan (and Putin) are known to be problematic and oppressive and backwards. And do I even need to explain North Korea?

So I'm fairly sure we can agree, most reasonable people would not align themselves with these groups.

Well let me tell you something. Russia and China have shown support for Gaza/Hamas in the current war. Erdogan's regime siphons money to Hamas. There have been remnants of North Korean weapons found where Hamas has attacked, indicating North Korean support as well. ISIS has repeatedly helped Hamas, and their flag was found in one of the places where Hamas invaded. Hamas's attack on Israel has been repeatedly compared on the scale of 9/11 for a reason, the two groups share ideologies and goals as well. Hamas has established an Islamist state in Gaza comparable to the rule of the Taliban, going so far as having the death penalty for being queer.

I think we can all agree that those groups/governments/leaders are awful and horrible. (Gov, not people.)

So why are people who are always so quick to condemn those groups are also quick to support Hamas in the war against Israel? Even though Hamas literally goes against everything those people stand for?

I don't really have an answer, but I have a few guesses. Let's just say the main reason starts with "anti" and ends with "semitism".

Even if the people at the pro-Hamas rallies would never claim to be antisemites, their views are shaped by the antisemitism so constant in our culture. As I've said before, the propaganda we're seeing is nothing new, it's just been reworded to fit the modern political world.

It's the same blood libel and slander we've been facing since we've began existing.

And yet, I am still baffled by the willful and selective ignorance of those who oppose Israel right now.

I'll be honest, I will most frequently assume benevolent intent. These people often believe that they are actually doing the right thing, actually helping people. But they align themselves with groups and individuals who definitely do not have benevolent intent. And I find the willful blindness appalling and confusing.

#jewish #jumblr #judaism #jew #opinion #proud israeli #israel solidarity #discourse #hamas is isis #denounce hamas #am yisrael chai #fuck antisemitism #fuck hamas #antizionism is antisemitism

[fairuzfan]

Can you help me break down my family's arguments? It's just that they're on Israel's side

And they say that Palestine deserves what is happening

Their arguments are:

"But Hamas started, taking people hostage, raping women and killing children. Israel is just fighting back. If someone did the same to you I would kill their family."

"But the hospitals on Palestine are Hamas' bases"

"But cutting off energy and telecommunications in Palestine is just to prevent Hamas from communicating"

"But Gaza is a place promised by God to the Israelites, Israel is taking what is rightfully theirs"

"But Hamas was trying to make an exchange between the lives of the hostages and Gaza with Israel and Israel did not accept it because Gaza is theirs, and Hamas should have released the hostages instead of exchanging their lives"

Hello, thanks for asking. I'm going to generalize these arguments a little more just to make it more widely applicable.

"Well Israel is just taking revenge/defending itself"

Well a couple things. Taking revenge is not an actual reason for people to attack other people. Just naturally, it's not a good ideology we should ever live by.

About claims that it's defending itself: Israel is a military powerhouse dropping TONS of bombs, I mean literal TONS. To say that anyone is defending someone with that level of ammunition and pure destruction, is just cruel. No one should experience that even in an equal footing type of war. Shouldn't we strive to protect people? Isn't it right to help others?

Now for your specific case, if they're arguing that they would "kill their family" as revenge, I'm not gonna lie, I think you're going to have to delve into that with them and dismantle that idea by emphasizing revenge is never justified.

You should center the humanity of Palestinians and emphasize that they should never experience such horror in their life.

"The hospitals are Hamas bases"

There is absolutely no evidence provided of this other than Israeli propaganda. I'd show them this video, which is a testimony from a European doctor.

There's also this pamphlet they released saying that they "know that Hamas is safe" and still willingly bombs the people of gaza anyways.

You should center the humanity of Palestinians and emphasize that they should never experience such horror in their life.

"Gaza is promised by God to the Israelites"

Why is it necessary to enforce one's religious beliefs on someone else? Why must the Palestinians experience violence in order for Israel to exist? Besides, if it was "promised" to them, does that mean God is allowing them to kill people indiscriminately? Does God, the most loving Being in the Universe, ever condone such acts of horrific violence on people? I speak as a Muslim that grew up being taught that Judiasm, Christianity, and Islam are quite similar religions, so I doubt that any of these religions would condone such large scale violence.

I'm not an expert of actual religious scripture of different faiths, so I can't provide quotes or anything like that, but I'd argue that God's main purpose in our lives is to remind us to love each other.

You should center the humanity of Palestinians and emphasize that they should never experience such horror in their life.

"Hostages—"

I'm not sure what the argument in your specific case is, but I think any argument having to do with hostages does not make any logical sense. Wouldn't Israel want to protect the hostages? Isn't bombing indiscriminately dangerous for everyone, but especially the Hostages?

But even hostages aside, Palestinians shouldn't have to suffer en masse! They've been sectioned off into the largest open-air prison for 20 years! It's just plain cruel to blame them for the genocide they face when they've been victims for 75+ years!

I'd recommend introducing them to this resource that explains the history of Palestinians from around 1948 to now:

There is also this that has scholarly research for and by Palestinians:

Let me know if any of this is useful. Good luck, and thank you for sending this in.

#palestine #gaza

[koheletgirl]

israel as a state has no reason to exist and there is no resolution except one where settlers return every single iota of land and power to the people they stole it from.

this being said, the idea that mass Israeli death will happen if the above comes to pass is literally just pathetic settler anxiety and projection.

israel as a state has no right to exist – i agree. i wish it had never been founded.

you need to define what you're talking about when you say "settlers". if you mean settlers from the west bank, those who are stealing palestinian land right now as we're speaking, those who are currently represented in the knesset by smotrich and ben gvir and their friends – you're absolutely right. this is a black and white situation, there is no nuance here. they need to be stopped and they need to get the fuck out of palestine and those among them who came from the us for the sole purpose of stealing palestinian land need to get the fuck back to the us (this is a phenomenon that does very much exist. it doesn't mean every settler is american).

if you're referring to every single jew in what's currently known as israel as a settler, it's more complicated than that and i encourage you to read about it. it doesn't mean we're not still on stolen palestinian land, that is absolutely the case. but a lot of jews came to israel as refugees, because they didn't feel like they had another choice (and sometimes they really didn't). no, me or my family can't go back to iraq. i dont think that's what you were suggesting, but a lot of other people seem to think that's the case.

again, this doesn't mean we're not living on stolen land. the right of return to palestinians is a necessity. reparations are a necessity. the land should be given back. you're absolutely right. i don't know what that would look like in practicality, i don't think you do either. but we agree on this.

i agree with everything you said. i am not going to ask you where you think all israelis should go in that case, because that would be a bad faith question. i dont know if you meant to argue with me, but there's not much for us to argue about.

israel shouldn't exist. the fact is, though, that it does. the right of return is a necessity, and there has to be a solution here that doesn't include the notion of israeli jews going "back to where they came from". when people say "from the river to the sea", that is what i choose to hear. i choose to believe no one wants me to disappear. this is what i believe, this is what i actively work for. the situation is what it is. the only way forward is to live together.

i do know, however, that on tumblr.com this isn't always true. people on here do want me to disappear. they do want me to die. and those people aren't palestinians, they're usually americans with a fandomized perception of justice. and i'm allowed to call it out. i'm allowed to say that i don't feel safe on this website as a jew. and this is nothing in the grand scheme of things, but it's still happening. and i will not talk about the rise in antisemitism in the diaspora because i'm not there. but when i ask you, the people of tumblr.com, to look at yourselves in the mirror, i fucking mean it with my whole heart. i don't need to hear "there are no civilians" and "they all have dual citizenship" and "they're all from new jersey". and i absolutely don't need to hear it from people who actually are from new jersey.

hope i managed to make myself clear.

#ask #anon #politics cw

[havegaysex]

Why are you telling people to vote for the guy committing genocide :/

because voting is not an endorsement it's harm reduction.

Trump is going to be at best doing the same as Biden and likely much worse for Palestinians and all the countries suffering from American Imperialism than Biden is.

Republicans want to bring back child labor and get rid of social security, medicare, Medicaid. As someone who is surviving on Medicaid and social security I don't want those taken away. The Republican majority house already put a lot of limits on food stamps in this past term and I don't think we'll still have food stamps if we get a republican Congress and a Republican president.

They've made it pretty clear that if they get a republican Congress and a Republican president they're going to enact project 2025 and call a conference of states and try and take our rights back to the days when only wealthy white men had any rights when women and racial minorities had no rights, they want to make it illegal for LGBT+ folks to safely exist in public and get lifesaving healthcare.

In short

Do I support every single thing Biden has done as president?

No.

Do I like him?

Not particularly. But I'm still voting for him because apathy is not a choice.

Do I think that Joe Biden having another term means that we can actually make more progress for labor rights, trans healthcare, abortion access, advancement of the rights and protections for disabled people and so much more?

Yes absolutely.

Do I think that the genocide in Gaza needs to end and the United States needs to stop sending weapons to israel?

Yes, I think that un restricted flow of humanitarian aid into Palestine needs to happen, the siege needs to stop, and the country of Israel and the United States need to be held accountable at an international level. I think that the soldiers of the IDF/IOF need to be held accountable for their war crimes and pillaging that they continuously post evidence of on social medias. I'm trying to put a read more here so ce I've put a few linked articles and quotes from them.

A quote from the article below:

"While our map focuses solely on high school aged youth (age 13-17), some states, such as Oklahoma, Texas, and South Carolina, have considered banning care for transgender people up to 26 years of age. "

I've seen lawmakers in some states try to make it felony punishable by life in prison to get your trans child healthcare to keep them alive because they want to make it illegal for us to exist and a legal for anyone who helps us exist.

some quotes from the article above:

"Led by the long-established Heritage Foundation think tank and fueled by former Trump administration officials, the far-reaching effort is essentially a government-in-waiting for the former president’s second term — or any candidate who aligns with their ideals and can defeat President Joe Biden in 2024. With a nearly 1,000-page “Project 2025” handbook and an “army” of Americans, the idea is to have the civic infrastructure in place on Day One to commandeer, reshape and do away with what Republicans deride as the “deep state” bureaucracy, in part by firing as many as 50,000 federal workers. “We need to flood the zone with conservatives,” said Paul Dans, director of the 2025 Presidential Transition Project and a former Trump administration official who speaks with historical flourish about the undertaking. “This is a clarion call to come to Washington,” he said. “People need to lay down their tools, and step aside from their professional life and say, ‘This is my lifetime moment to serve.’” The unprecedented effort is being orchestrated with dozens of right-flank organizations, many new to Washington, and represents a changed approach from conservatives, who traditionally have sought to limit the federal government by cutting federal taxes and slashing federal spending. Instead, Trump-era conservatives want to gut the “administrative state” from within, by ousting federal employees they believe are standing in the way of the president’s agenda and replacing them with like-minded officials more eager to fulfill a new executive’s approach to governing. The goal is to avoid the pitfalls of Trump’s first years in office, when the Republican president’s team was ill-prepared, his Cabinet nominees had trouble winning Senate confirmation and policies were met with resistance — by lawmakers, government workers and even Trump’s own appointees who refused to bend or break protocol, or in some cases violate laws, to achieve his goals. While many of the Project 2025 proposals are inspired by Trump, they are being echoed by GOP rivals Ron DeSantis and Vivek Ramaswamy and are gaining prominence among other Republicans. And if Trump wins a second term, the work from the Heritage coalition ensures the president will have the personnel to carry forward his unfinished White House business. “The president Day One will be a wrecking ball for the administrative state,” said Russ Vought, a former Trump administration official involved in the effort who is now president at the conservative Center for Renewing America. Much of the new president’s agenda would be accomplished by reinstating what’s called Schedule F — a Trump-era executive order that would reclassify tens of thousands of the 2 million federal employees as essentially at-will workers who could more easily be fired. Biden had rescinded the executive order upon taking office in 2021, but Trump — and other presidential hopefuls — now vow to reinstate it."

"There’s a “top to bottom overhaul” of the Department of Justice, particularly curbing its independence and ending FBI efforts to combat the spread of misinformation. It calls for stepped-up prosecution of anyone providing or distributing abortion pills by mail."

Personally I think that voting for Joe Biden is better than someone who wants to enact this stuff on day one. It's like they read handmaid's tale and want to make that the reality of this country.

"Chapter by chapter, the pages offer a how-to manual for the next president, similar to one Heritage produced 50 years ago, ahead of the Ronald Reagan administration. Authored by some of today’s most prominent thinkers in the conservative movement, it’s often sprinkled with apocalyptic language." Ronald Reagan is a big reason we have a lot of problems we have today with our economy and with a lot more things. The people that supported Ronald Reagan do not need another term in office.

A quote from the article linked below:

"Trump has given no indication that he would be more sympathetic to Palestinian claims, nor that he would place more pressure on Israel to agree to a ceasefire. “The approach of the United States would be that Israel needs to win this war, it was attacked brutally,” Trump’s ambassador to Israel, David Friedman, told the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, describing how Trump would act. Friedman is now a campaign surrogate for Trump."

Personally I think Trump telling Israel to finish the job is indicators that another Trump presidency doesn't mean that weapons would stop being sent to Israel from United States

I fail to see how another term of Donald trump will be any better for the victims of the ongoing genocide in Palestine than President Joe Biden.

i think our system is absolutely messed up and broken but I don't think abstaining from voting is going to actually help.

#I don't support the genocide happening but I don't think that a republican will improve the situation happening in Gaza #I think that there needs to be a lot more grassroots effort for any third party candidate to be viable on the presidential level #We have two choices this election another term of Biden or another trump term #(if by some miracle the republicans managed to elect anyone else for their party nomination I still don't believe that a republican will #Improve the situation of Gaza or anything the United States is doing in the international level) #Asks #Mutuals #Im open to having further discussion about this #Also since this wasn't a DM or marked for private response I'm assuming you're fine with me posting my answer publicly. #I tried to pick out decent articles to link sorry if there not the best #None of my responses above are me trying to be hostile or combative #I'm genuinely trying to answer this question and I am not great at proofreading before posting but I did try here #vote blue no matter who #vote biden #vote democrat #vote blue #voting #us elections #election 2024 #trump 2024 #2024 election #biden 2024 #biden administration #president biden #joe biden #2024 elections #kamala harris #palestine #Israel

[unforth]

I'm glad your KS problem got solved. Can you please use some time to post about Palestine? People are being killed in your name. Use your platform please. Thank you

Hey anon! So...no, I won't be doing that. What the fuck do you even mean "people are being killed in my name"? Absolutely no one is killing in my name, and I owe talking about it more to no one.

First, I trigger pretty severely to harm to children, which automatically means that a great deal of the coverage of Palestine is very triggering for me.

Second, I think there are plenty of people already blogging about this, that not every single blog needs to become wall-to-wall discussion of Palestine, and that mass-blogging about the conflict is entirely performative.

Third, in general I rarely blog about political events, and when I do it's virtually always US election (FOR FUCK'S SAKE YOU HAVE TO VOTE) and/or things about censorship, because those are the areas that interest me and that I personally feel strongly about.

Fourth, I think the demand that a stranger blog about that one specific event, ignoring all the other ongoing tragedies in the world (the war in Ukraine and the genocide in the Congo, to name two that spring immediately to mind) is honestly heckin' weird.

Fifth, I own and run a business, and it's entirely within my rights to decide to keep that business apart from incredibly divisive current events. The business account (which is entirely separate from my personal account - it's not a side blog, it's a separate log in) - when it interacts with political topics at all - primarily blogs about recent happenings in publishing and related fields (so, legislation about free speech, ongoing strikes, etc.) and about recent happenings related to queer things (positive legislation and negative legislation being proposed or passed). I intentionally do not blog about other political topics, because they have nothing to do with the business. The most political the Press has gotten about the conflict in the Middle East is that we've quietly removed a couple books from rec lists that were written by authors or released by publishers who have managed, by publicizing their OWN views, to become especially controversial (especially on Tiktok) and even that I did extremely reluctantly, I just don't want to get Tiktok cancelled because we spent 5 seconds saying we liked a book by someone they currently hate, because Tiktok is Like That.

As to my own personal views on the conflict, which you are in absolutely no way entitled to know but which I have previously shared publicly so don't mind sharing again, I am a Jew and I was raised to believe that when all the rest of the world turned on us, Israel would always be the one place where we'd be safe, and I clung to that belief over 40 years of watching Israel become increasingly right wing and jingoistic, continuing to believe that the surest path to safety and security for everyone involved was a two-state solution.

As I previously wrote here, in the face of Israel's current actions against Palestine, I no longer believe that. If this is how Israel behaves, I no longer think Israel has a right to exist. I do still think that the best outcome right now is a two-state solution, but one that involves the complete abolition of the current Israeli government and army, to be replaced with a system that isn't, ya know, disgustingly fascist - and that if that can't be done, we need a one-state solution, and that one state shouldn't be Israel. This is my personal opinion.

However, I also acknowledge that for many Jews, this is an incredibly loaded, difficult topic, and I would never align my business to an official position like this because I have no desire to alienate people who I know feel as conflicted and complicated about this as I do myself. I take it as a matter of simple real fact that I respect my friends and colleagues enough to accept that they may reach different conclusions than I have about this, and I don't want them to feel unwelcome in a space that I've created because I on an individual level have reached a different conclusions about what I believe to be the best ending for this conflict than they have. We also do not allow political conversations of this stripe in our server for the same reason.

No matter how much people on both sides keep trying to paint this conflict as black and white, right and wrong, with one-and-done magic single-switch solutions, it's not that simple, never has been, and never will be, and the reality on the ground of ways to resolve this are also not that simple. Now, to be clear, I think it IS simple and accurate to say: the killing needs to stop i.m.m.e.d.i.a.t.e.l.y. That's a given and I think I'd be hard-pressed to find anyone in the circles I travel in who'd disagree. But what should happen AFTER that? That's where I think reasonable people can still disagree about what should happen next to that land and the people living on it.

Anyway.

I should probably stop talking before, in my effort to be nuanced and balanced, I say something that leads someone to think I should be canceled. I am against the genocide 100% and this conflict has turned me from reluctantly vaguely okay with zionism to anti-zionist, but I also am tired of seeing people act like big problems have easy solutions, and I'm tired of the suggestion that anyone who isn't performatively outraged about this specific situation 24/7 is a bad person with wrong opinions.

Like, I think you need to take a look in the mirror and ask yourself why you thought this was an appropriate ask to send a stranger. I'm genuinely disgusted that you'd try to turn a conflict that has nothing to do with me into something I'm personally responsible for because it's being done "in my name." Honestly, what the fuck is wrong with you? Antisemitic much? I'm a Jew, but that doesn't and never will mean that the Israeli government speaks for me or in my name. Fuck you.

#unforth replies #politics #antisemitism #i'm not tagging the other major things in this post because I don't want it to be that visible #but if anyone needs something specific tagged please let me know

[blessedarethebinarybreakers]

Don't you think there's better ways of showing support for Palestinians/Israeli Christians than by perpetuating the "Jesus was Palestinian" myth that people constantly try and use to deny Jewish indigeneity. Allegory or not, it's not a great look for someone who purports to be against that kind of erasure and supercessionism. Also, having 1 line about how his death was the Empire's fault so don't blame the Jews is meaningless when in this allegory, the Empire (Israeli government) *is* Jewish

(anyone curious about what anon's referring to, I believe it's my poem here)

Hey there anon, thank you for your feedback. In this situation where various marginalized peoples are being pitted against each other (and/or conflated with political groups), I've been struggling to make sure my words don't add to the misinformation and harm. So whenever someone takes the time to remind me of that danger, I'll take the time to re-examine my words — even if I end up standing by them, as I mostly do in this case.

I can't promise to say and do all the perfect things, because there isn't time to waste getting my words just right before saying something — people are dying right now (and yes, anon, that includes those Israelis who are still hostages of Hamas, who are also endangered by Israel's continued attacks.)

I have been spending much of my free time these past few months learning more about Israel and Palestine, and I still don't feel I'm even close to knowing enough! But I've listened to those who are actually in the midst of the violence who say that all of us across the world must join their cry now, not letting our ignorance be an excuse. That means there have been a few things I've said that I then had to re-consider after learning more.

...

Just a few days ago, I was actually trying to look into the origins of the statement that "Jesus was a Palestinian Jew." (Btw if anyone knows the origins of this statement, please hit me up!)

Arguments against it note that the term "Palestinian" didn't exist in Jesus' day. Looking into the accuracy of that statement is still on my to-do list; I did skim over this article calling it a myth but yeah, still digging. Regardless, sure, I don't think Jesus called himself a Palestinian in his lifetime.

That doesn't necessarily mean that the statement is useless, however. I do very much believe that if Jesus were born today, in the same place, he'd be born to a Jewish Palestinian family, not an Israeli one.

That does not erase his Jewishness; it confirms God's "preferential option for the poor," God's choice to side with and become one with the most oppressed and discarded. It also does not assert that Jewish persons don't "belong" in the region — only that the modern nation/colony Israel isn't necessary for them to live and thrive there.

All that said, if anyone has more info on the statement that "Jesus was a Palestinian" — its origins, how it's been used over the years — I would absolutely like to examine it further. For now, I stand by the phrase, with an openness to re-considering that with further education.

...

I feel more confident in talking about Empire — how I used it in my poem, versus how you've interpreted it. I'm genuinely grateful to you for bringing your reading of it to my attention, because it's shown me that my words weren't clear enough there!

In these verses from my poem:

"...And now, as then, some may blame Jesus’s death on his own Jewish people — but resist this lie! Now as then the crime is Empire’s and those of us who would cast stones should ponder first what our nations gain from genocide. ..."

You interpret Empire as being Israel.

My intention was that Empire with a capital E is a much larger network of all imperial forces on earth. Israel is entangled in that, and directly backed and funded by those forces. My own country, the United States, is one of the nations at the helm of Empire.

So when I talk of Empire being to blame, I'm not saying just Israel — honestly, I'm personally more concerned with the US's complicity, because I feel as a US citizen I can help demand they stop.

So I'm going to rework that bit to better express what I mean by Empire, so it doesn't sound like I'm focusing only on Israel. Empire is so much bigger than any one state, colony, or government.

...

Okay, I'm out of steam. I'm going to link a few pieces that have been helping me frame all that's going on right now to resist pitting marginalized groups against each other:

This art piece naming "contradicting truths"

This article by Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg also naming seemingly contradictory truths

Since I didn't really get deep into this part of your ask, I also appreciate this article discussing the question of indigeneity. It discards the "need" to figure out "who was there first" in favor of exploring intersecting histories.

Oh also, because you claim that the Israeli government "is Jewish," I think discussions on how Israel isn't actually a safe haven for all Jews, only those that fit into their goals, are vital.

#chatting tag #idk how to word this but. like. #what's happening right now is both NOT complex: we MUST side with Palestine. #and also very very complex with a need for nuance and context. #both and not either or #does that make sense?....

[doberbutts]

not the prev anon but re: "Israel has a right to exist" not being a Zionist statement and saying otherwise us antisemitic. - that's a bad faith reading because we're not talking about Israelis, we're talking about the state of Israel. The settler colonial state Israel doesn't have a right to exist. That doesn't mean that people have to leave, it just means that Palestinians need to have a say in how to use their land again and expelled families need to be able to return to where their homes once were. That in itself is not an antisemitic point of view unless you conflate the state of Israel with Jewish people, against the wishes of antizionist Jews everywhere.

I wish I could say it was a bad faith reading but I have unfortunately literally seen people uncritically posting that Israel as a state should be dissolved and as part of it all Israelis should be sent back where they came from because they're all settlers and not a single one of them can consider themselves indigenous to the land. I'm not making that up. I'm not reading ill intent into anything. It's not a strawman. I've genuinely seen people saying this.

That's ethnic cleansing too. And anyone protesting this gets called a Zionist and a colonizer and a settler- often by Americans who are not indigenous and are living stolen land themselves. Though, recently, I even saw an indigenous person saying exactly this, and like... did you see the asks I was sent immediately after saying "I don't like that people are saying go back where you came from" because that anon absolutely did directly state that they are of the opinion that as part of the dissolution of the Israeli state and land back, Israelis should be expelled from the area en mass whether they want to leave or not.

So there are, absolutely, people conflating the two. And people are calling for genocide to answer for genocide.

Also, as said before, it becomes very difficult to say who the land "belongs to" (idk this might be the Native in me but land does not belong to anyone, how self-centered to think that the Earth can be divided into pieces by humans who have been here only a short time compared to its whole lifespan, but w/e that's a point for a different day) when both Arabic Israelis and Arabic Palestinians are indigenous to the land. Do they not get a say? They also trace their roots to that area. They are indigenous too- so how can giving "their land" to the other indigenous group be considered "land back"?

It's not like in the US, where most of the colonial efforts are being driven by people who never originated here in the first place. It's way more complicated than that.

Do I think "the state of Israel" has the right to exist? Personally I think that the entire area needs a serious policy re-write and constitution put in place to equalize rights between Israelis and Palestinians and ensure that it stays equal, a ceasefire needs to happen, the genocide of the Palestinians needs to stop, and a peaceful solution with both Israelis and Palestinians living together in harmony needs to be reached. People need to be able to move back into their homes, people need to be able to be free of displacement and constant fear, and without relying on segregation because we all know how "separate but equal" turns out. Would that dissolve the state of Israel? I mean, as it currently stands, probably by definition yes.

Do I think "Israel" itself has the right to exist? The word "Israel" has existed since about 13th century BC. The word "Palestine" has existed since about 5th century BC. Those are the earliest known mentions of these names and not even within those borders (Israel's document was found in Egypt, Palestine's in Greece) so who knows how long the area itself was calling itself one thing or the other or who the scholars of the time talked to to get that name in the first place. The exact borders of these have shifted since then and exactly who controls those borders have largely traded hands back and forth for literal millennia, which is why I'm saying it's way more complicated than that and that both of these people have a claim to the land that stretches back thousands of years. I think it's a little haughty of me to say that something that's existed for the past roughly 3000 years doesn't have the right to exist.

[hellsbellschime]

I need to say this and you're really only one of my mutuals who I feel kinda safe saying this to, but as a pro Palestine supporter I'm horrified by the way some Pro Palestine supporters (not on here) approach the issue of sexual assault on October 7th which I've been forced to accept happened. From these people I get the undeniable sense that they actually think that if they address it, even show sympathy for any victims, they're endorsing Israel or their IOF or the lives of Palestinian people that were tragically lost in the months after October 7th which is just wild to me. Even if no sexual assault occurred on October 7th it's the way these people were so ready to believe that it didn't because they thought it would invalidate the Palestianian cause when the Palestianian cause is (tm) is about justice, and no context will ever justify or excuse sexual violence. These two issues should be able to co exist, and somehow it fucking doesn't for these people!

I just have immense sympathy for Jewish people particularly women who are feeling alienated/betrayed thanks to this whole matter because I hear genuine nonsense like "Oh you're weaponing SA" if you want to acknowledge what occurred on October 7th. It bothers me to put it lightly that some people are willing to take what was more than likely the worst thing that happened to these people and just basically not hold the perpetrators accountable because these people belong to a cause they support.... that's really fucking dangerous!

Its even more unforgivable when some victims involved were apparently minors and still these people are silent because their too much of a coward to speak about it because they don't see Israelis as human. You're justified in hating Israel but you're not justified in just.... avoiding the horror of what was done to Israelis because it makes YOU uncomfortable, because you're afraid, because whatever. This feels even more urgent to me given its Women's History month but some of the worst perpetrators of this whole issue have been women themselves which makes it even worse.

The whole denialism also reeks of antisemitism from some corners.

Um yeah, I have a lot of feelings about this, one of the biggest of which is that it's beyond disturbing that you feel unsafe saying this publicly, because it is so obviously and undeniably wrong. I understand that people just want there to be an easy villain and hero, but sexual assault and rape are such a telling and important war crime because there is no utility in it. You can make an argument that almost every crime you can imagine, theft, destruction of property, even murder can be "useful" in war, but sexual violence has no purpose or utility beyond humiliation and trauma. It is cruelty for the sake of it, and you can't even create the illusion of some kind of justification.

But the denialism is antisemitic, and not just partially or in some corners. Horrifically, rape of women (and men and children too) has pretty much always been seen as "the spoils of war," so these rapes and sexual abuses are unfortunately not unique in that sense. But denying their existence is antisemitic because A. once again, 10/7 was not some rebellion or resistance against Israel, it was a terrorist attack on civilians that was perpetrated by a directly stated antisemitic terrorist group, and B. because rape has been used as a weapon against Jewish people for millennia as a specific and targeted form of terrorism and abuse. I mean, one of the prevailing theories about why Judaism is matrilineal is because rape of Jewish women was just that common. So to have absolute proof that these things have happened and either act as if it's justified or literally deny the reality right in front of their faces is antisemitic, across the board, zero exceptions.

And I hate to speculate because god knows what will happen, but it's extremely likely that things are going to get worse before they get better. There are still a lot of hostages that haven't been returned or even seen in weeks or months, and Hamas has repeatedly turned down deals to exchange hostages for a ceasefire. There are only a few things that this can mean. One of the most absurd but still likely options is that they just don't know where the hostages are anymore, which also almost certainly doesn't mean anything good anyway. It's highly unlikely that all of these people vanished into thin air and are coincidentally being treated well. And another obvious possibility is that whatever has been done to them is so horrific and/or so undeniable that Hamas doesn't want them to be released, because as of now they're winning the PR war and are literally getting people to agree that either the sexual violence didn't happen or it was somehow deserved.

Clearly I can't know that this is the case and there are other possibilities to explain why Hamas has repeatedly passed on a ceasefire, but there's no benefit to not even showing proof of life for these hostages unless something REAL fucked up happened or is happening to them. But regardless, I feel it really bears repeating, an organization with the stated intention of destroying all Jews then raping and sexually abusing a bunch of Jewish people is SO absurdly antisemitic that it's like the kind of comically outsized example you would try to make to explain bigotry to someone who heard the word for the first time two minutes ago, so the people who are still denying this reality are neo-Nazis in SJW clothing.

#tw rape #antisemitism for ts

[matan4il]

To the Nonnie who (we really need to find you a better nickname) asked me about the Druze and the Bedouins in Israel, you're very welcome, and likewise, I appreciate your kind words! :)

I still think Israel should strive to include our closest brethren in law as much as we can

We actually refer to Arabs as our cousins. ;) I think the Druze in particular, as well as the Israeli Arabs and the Bedouins who are not hostile to Israel, who do not support terrorism and violence against Jews, are in fact generally seen as closer than that. And I already said in my first reply to you, that I absolutely think that Israel, like all countries, should constantly strive to make life as good and inclusive for its minorities as possible. So on that point, we def agree, Nonnie. To me, it's also clear that Israel must remain the Jewish nation state, while to you it isn't (you say you're undecided what the answer is, to me there's not even a question), and I'll admit, I'm not sure why. Being a Jewish state, doesn't mean Israel is solely a Jewish state (meaning, it is NOT a state for Jews only), but we've already covered that. You want it not to be solely Jewish on a national level as well, not just that of citizen rights, or who gets to be one. You still haven't provided me with an explanation of why you think Jews are the only ones not deserving of a nation state? Historically, many bigger and more powerful unions, have disintegrated into smaller nation states, because no one group wanted to feel controlled by, or dependent on the good will of another. Why is that acceptable for the former Yugoslavia's Serbs, Bosnians and Croats, Slovenians, Macedonians and Montenegrins (as one example), but not for Jews?

And why do you think anyone will thank the Jews for throwing our right to self determination away? The Druze, for example, have been forced to do exactly this. Under the French Mandate in Syria and Lebanon, they were given self rule from 1921 to 1936. Then, as part of establishing the independent Syria, the Druze State was taken away from them, and it was forcibly integrated into Syria, while they were still allowed some autonomy. By 1944, that was canceled, too. And what has happened to them since? Syria doesn't even recognize them as a distinct ethno-religious, let alone one that deserve protection or rights. In Syria's official demographics, the Druze are registered as Muslims (in fact, the only country in the Middle East that recognizes the Druze as a distinct group, is Israel). And according to at least one Druze researcher, the Civil war in Syria has made the Druze realize that their very existence there is in danger. And this is despite the fact that the biggest Druze population in the world lives in Syria, and that since the rise of the Allawi minority to power through a military coup, at the expense of the Suni Muslim majority, minorities in Syria were treated better than in most of the Middle East (while the majority was oppressed, leading to the war).

Groups without any power, without self protection, marginalized and vulnerable, have NOT been historically treated well. I don't really know many examples to the contrary, if at all. We, as Jews, should know that better than anyone. I know that you know this, but I want to emphasize it. NO ONE will thank the Jews if we throw away our right to self rule away, and NO ONE will protect us, if we choose to make ourselves once more weak and defenceless. It's just not how human nature works.

From your last ask, it sounds like your environment is very radical, and likely anti-Zionist? And I commend you for not being as extreme, as well as for being able to carry on a respectful dialogue. I think that's maybe the biggest counter to hatred, the ability to communicate respectfully even with people we disagree with. So I don't take it lightly, that you disagree with me, but we can still have a nice conversation. But I think you can and should pose some of these questions to the people around you, who you implied are radical. Do they recognize the Zionist nature of Judaism, and the unbreakable bond of Jews to their ancestral homeland in Israel, that Judaism sanctifies? Do they recognize that before the Jewish state, and the self rule and self defence it provides us with, Jews were horribly abused in the Middle East? Do they understand how Israel continues to save Jews since its inception, both by giving them refuge in Israel, and by protecting them in the countries around the world where Jews live? Do they understand and care, that dismantling Israel as a Jewish state, takes that protection away from Jews worldwide, at a time when antisemitic narratives about us are at their strongest since WWII? And why do they think it's okay for Jews to be the only ones deprived of the right to have a nation state in their ancestral land? Hopefully, you can have a respectful dialogue with these people about these questions. But even if not, I think it's vital to ask them, because Jews have suffered too much, for too long, and there's too few of us left, to risk the safety of those of us still left on this earth, by just being optimistic, or going on a sanitized version of the past (in which nothing was ever wrong between Jews and Arabs in Israel before the advent of 19th century Zionism), and not truly confronting the real facts, history, and rights regarding Jews, and the consequences of depriving us of a nation state.

I'm glad my posts and opinions helped you reflect on and form your own. And I'm happy to share whatever knowledge I have, or why my conclusions and beliefs are what they are... I would be happy to meet for a coffee, and to kvetch together if you come to Jerusalem, and you're absolutely welcome in my inbox! Have a great day and week, and I hope you really enjoyed your Hanukkah! ^u^

(for all of my updates and ask replies regarding Israel, click here)

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