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hellomystraightlacedfriend · 7 days

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The Osborns' 'Weird' Relationship: An Analysis

◇ Spectacular Spider-Man #146 - Gerry Conway/Sal Buscema ◇

Okay, so I know it was awhile ago that I said I might write an analysis of some of the emotional dysfunctional aspects of 616 Norman and Harry Osborn’s relationship, but I really struggled with the format and how I was going to present this.

One thing that I ended up having to do was throw out any speculation on the writers' intent. With comics, you have so many different writers - especially with a long ongoing, popular series like Spider-Man - that I decided to focus a lot more on the patterns I was picking up when I was reading.

But before I go any further:

CW: discussions of child abuse, mental illness, and suicidal ideation

Disclaimer: In this analysis, I am trying to provide an explanation for why Norman might behave the way he does. However, this explanation of Norman’s abuse is not meant to be a justification of his behaviour.

Also, before we start, you are absolutely allowed to disagree with this analysis! Every reader sees/interprets things a little differently, but I've seen other people pick up on the Osborns' relationship being well, strange, so I decided to examine that a little closer.

There were certain things I kept noticing in Norman and Harry's relationship that I found abnormal (you know, apart from Norman's extensive verbal abuse). Things like: Harry's really intense and misplaced loyalty to his father (that interfers with his other relationships.) The way in which Harry feels responsible for his father. The way Harry doesn’t have a strong identity outside of his father, and how his father doesn't allow (or think Harry needs) any emotional privacy. Also, just some of the ways Norman talks to his son don’t make it feel like a normal parent-child relationship.

In particular in this analysis, I did want to talk about emotional incest and enmeshment, which I am going to define now.

The psychological definition of emotional (or covert) incest is when a parent relies on their child for emotional support that they should be getting from another adult. They treat their child like a friend or partner, instead of well, a child.

And

An enmeshed family is one where there is a lack of boundaries, and often, the child isn't allowed to have an individual identity.

I think we see a lot of the after affects of this kind of emotional abuse in Harry as an adult, and while we don't see a whole lot of Harry and Norman's relationship dynamic when Harry is growing up, I do want to start from there, using what flash backs and other information we have.

Actually to give some background on why this kind of abuse occurred, I will go back a bit further than that and talk briefly about Norman’s childhood and his relationship with Harry’s mother.

Norman definitely didn't have a great childhood. His father was a bitter and abusive alcoholic who blamed all of his problems on other people, including his son. And while Norman's mother wasn't abusive towards him, she did fail to protect him. This betrayal from an early age from both his parents would have been a huge contributer to Norman's extensive trust issues (and his drive to be in control so he's not hurt again.)

Norman didn't get the emotional support and attention he needed while growing up, so that's really what he was seeking as a young adult, and he found it in Emily Lyman aka Harry's mother.

Now while I don’t think that Norman and Emily's relationship was perfect like he presents it to be, I do think from his point-of-view this was a great time in his life. He was finally out from under his father's thumb. This beautiful woman believed in him. They had their whole lives ahead of them. The possibilities were endless, and then - she died.

Or faked her death and left him because he was so controlling.

Either way, she was gone, and he still a young man was left to go on as a single father.

Interestingly, Norman both blames Harry for Emily's death and compares him to her. Much later in his life, when talking to Harry's grave, Norman says that he tried to be fair to Harry 'even though you were so much like your mother in so many ways.' In this scene, Norman is angry at Harry for dying and thus 'abandoning' him to be alone. And I think that's what Norman felt when Emily died too, this deep sense of abandonment.

◇ Spider-Man: Revenge of the Green Goblin #1 - Roger Stern/Ron Frenz | Peter Parker: Spider-Man #44 - Paul Jenkins/Humberto Ramos ◇

(Later, it's revealed that Harry is not dead. Or maybe he is. I am NOT getting into the whole post-OMD-Harry-is-a-clone mess. For the sake of this analysis, they are the same person. They would have the same memories anyway.)

Now I am going to be piecing some things together and doing a bit of speculating. One thing that always stuck with me is that Harry keeps saying that his and Norman's relationship used to be different, that they used to be 'pals,' and then something changed. While I know a lot of people dismiss this, become Harry is delusional about his father at other points, I do think when Norman became the Green Goblin, there was a shift in their relationship dynamic, and Norman stopped opening up as much to his son.

I still absolutely think Norman was a neglectful and preoccupied father, but I also think that Norman was an emotionally needy person, and once Emily died, Norman (who was most likely extremely depressed and lacking a support system) tried to have Harry meet some of those needs. I say tried to, because Harry was just a little kid, a baby, and he wouldn’t be capable of doing that.

I think a lot about a panel from Spectacular Spider-Man #178 where Harry is talking to his own son Normie Osborn. Normie is a very young child/toddler. While Harry is talking to Normie, and Normie is watching TV, Harry starts hallucinating that his father is in the room. (Both Harry and his father have had psychotic episodes.)

Norman tells Harry that Normie should be listening to Harry, and when Harry says that Normie is just 'a little guy' and 'doesn't really understand all this,' the Norman Sr. hallucination becomes angry and says that Harry was just the same. That Harry was lost in his own head when he was young, and couldn’t hear when Norman talked to him.

◇ Spectacular Spider-Man #178 - J.M. DeMatteis/Sal Buscema ◇

It's interesting the way Norman and Harry differ here. Harry wants his son Normie to be able to enjoy these early years and have this chance to be carefree. Whereas Norman doesn't seem to really understand the concept of childhood and childhood innocence.

I also find it interesting (because I'm obsessed with word choice) that both Norman and Harry use 'pals' to describe their relationship.

◇ Amazing Spider-Man #39 & #40 - Stan Lee/John Romita Sr. ◇

And just in general, Norman and Harry's relationship doesn't seem to fall into the typical parent-child relationship - where the parent takes care of the child and meets the child's emotional needs. Instead, it's more complicated and codependent.

Norman and Harry both view Norman as Harry’s provider and protector. Norman is abusive towards Harry, but he does show deep concern about Harry's safety and worries about what would happen if he (Norman) suddenly died - because he's afraid Harry wouldn't be able to fend for himself.

On the other hand, Norman really doesn't give Harry any tools to become independent or encourage a separate identity, and I think part of that is because subconsciously - as much as he keeps saying he wants Harry to be strong - Norman actually wants Harry to be dependent on him.

Like on one level Norman does want Harry to be strong and be able to think for himself, so that he can take over the company and continue the Osborn legacy (and he is angry at Harry and verbally punishes him for not living up to this). But on a more personal - and like I said before subconscious - level, I do think that Norman wants Harry to have to rely on him. Because Norman doesn't want Harry to be able to leave him. Because he doesn't want to be alone.

And that's the thing, I do think that Norman is also dependent on Harry.

Harry is the nurturer to his father's protector and provider. He cares for and worries about his father a lot, and as much as Norman does not like to be seen as weak, there are quite a few moments where we do see Norman be vulnerable around his son.

Why this happened is probably largely circumstantial. Norman is a very paranoid man, who constantly fears betrayal from those around him. Even with the other adults in Norman's life who he is 'close' to - like J Jonah Jameson and George Stacy, he is not open. He does not trust them. He thinks that people are conspiring against him. However, he doesn't see his young son as a threat, as someone who could turn against him and hurt him. And he pulls Harry into this emotional isolation with him by telling his son not to trust anyone but his family (anyone but Norman.)

◇Amazing Spider-Man #62 - Stan Lee/John Romita Sr. || Amazing Spider-Man #47 - Stan Lee/John Romita Sr. || Amazing Spider-Man #67 - Stan Lee/John Romita Sr. || Spectacular Spider-Man #200 - J.M. DeMatteis/Sal Buscema◇

That puts Harry in a very difficult position, because he has deal with these adult concerns at such a young age, and he also can't fully open up to anyone else. This strain, along with Norman's exacting standards and scathing criticism, puts a lot of pressure of Harry.

However, Harry is used to being his father's confidant, and he becomes extremely anxious if his father shuts him out - or worse if he doesn't know where his father is. In a way, as much as Harry says that his father is strong and great, I think (at some level) Harry must also see his father as (emotionally) fragile.

This is especially noticeable in Amazing Spider-Man #121, where Harry is supposed to be resting because he has just overdosed, but he can't because he's so worried about how his father will react to possible financial ruin. He goes to him, tells his father that he doesn't need to worry about him, that he can take care of himself, that he's just worried about his father. He then proceeds to collapse in Norman's arms because he is not well.

◇ Amazing Spider-Man #40 - Stan Lee/John Romita || Amazing Spider-Man #61 - Stan Lee/John Romita Sr., Don Heck || Amazing Spider-Man #63 - Stan Lee/Don Heck, John Romita || Amazing Spider-Man #121 - Gerry Conway/Gil Kane ◇

This collapse leads Norman to want to rid Peter Parker/Spider-Man from his life (by killing Peter), because he falsely blames Peter for Harry's drug overdose and also the collapse of Osborn Indistries.

Now Peter’s involvement in the Osborns' personal lives is interesting. Peter is the first person that Harry really opens up to outside of his father - when Harry breaks down and complains that his father had been very distant in the last few years. When Peter responds with the emotional support Harry had never gotten from Norman, Harry draws Peter further into his life by asking him to be his roommate. Harry’s demeanour toward Peter also becomes similar to his attitude towards his father, submissive and eager to please. (He even calls Peter 'sir' at one point when he's trying to get his attention - an address he uses towards his father.)

Peter, however, is so caught up in being Spider-Man that, like Norman, Peter often neglects his relationship with Harry. This leads Harry to be rather passive-aggressive. At one point, Harry offers to make Peter breakfast, but when he hears Peter locking his stuff up, he becomes insulted that Peter would think he would steal from him and storms off to see Norman instead.

This becomes an ongoing element, Harry being torn between Norman and Peter, and seeking love/support from both of them, but seemingly unable to get it.

Now I want to make it quite clear that Norman and Peter are not equally responsible here. Peter is Harry’s age and has troubles of his own. Norman should be acting as Harry’s father, but he really isn't, not emotionally anyway. He is meeting his son's material needs (to an excess), but he is emotionally neglecting his son while also emotionally burdening him with his own troubles. Plus Norman is constantly verbally berating Harry for failing to live up to his impossible expectations - leaving Harry feeling worthless and extremely depressed.

Harry takes drugs to cope with these negative feelings - first abusing prescription medication and then moving on to street drugs. There is even already a note of passive suicidal ideation here, as when Peter asks him how many pills he's taking, Harry's response is 'What’s the difference? Who counts?' (Amazing Spider-Man #97 - Stan Lee/Gil Kane.)

Now I refuse to believe that Harry doesn't understand that there's a possibility of overdose here: he's a chemistry (and business) major with a father who sells drugs for a living. He knows that it is a possibility. So, while he's not actively seeking to end his life, he also doesn't really seem to care if he lives or dies - as long as he can escape from his pain.

Harry does eventually overdose - and it's an overdose that leads Norman to go after Peter & also Peter’s girlfriend (and Harry's friend) Gwen. Norman blames all of Harry’s friends for his condition, but especially Peter. And Norman blames himself for failing to protect his son from them. He threatens to kill Gwen if Peter doesn't end his own life, and when Peter doesn't comply, Norman goes ahead with his threat - throwing Gwen Stacy off the George Washington Bridge. (Amazing Spider-Man #121 - Gerry Conway/Gil Kane.)

Peter (as Spider-Man) goes after Norman in revenge, and Norman ends up dying (albeit by his own glider and not Peter’s hand.) Harry eventually figures out that Peter is Spider-Man, and this leads him to think that his and Peter’s friendship wasn't real, that it was entirely a ruse on Peter’s part. That Peter was just getting close to Harry to close in on his father.

Harry ends up forgetting about Peter Parker’s secret identity after his first attack on Peter though, and so for years the threat of Harry's revenge remains dormant. However, even from 'beyond the grave' (Norman, um, kind of faked his death, but Harry didn’t know that) Norman still had a hold on Harry’s psyche.

One early warning sign of the return of Green Goblin might have been that Harry names his child both after his father and himself (Norman Harold Osborn), keeping their names (and identies) close together. Harry also tells young Normie how special a man his grandfather Norman Osborn was. Then Harry begins to hear his father's voice telling him to revenge his death, to kill Spider-Man/Peter Parker.

Harry goes back and forth on how he sees his father. At times, he is able to see his father as who he really was/is, a dangerous criminal who ruined his own life. However, at other points, he calls Norman 'wonderful' and 'the greatest man this world has ever known.' He claims that his father's spirit is in him fuelling all his efforts, and blames Peter for both Norman's and Gwen's deaths.

Of course, it would be hard for anyone to admit that their father killed one of their closest friends, however, I think with Harry it goes even beyond that. Because Harry doesn't have a solid identity outside of his father, he is unable to fully see himself and his father as two separate people. So, in his head, Harry can't admit that his father killed Gwen, because then he would also have to think that he killed Gwen - something I don't think that Harry can wrap his head around doing. It's easier then to blame someone else - Peter/Spider-Man.

When Harry does finally admit that Norman killed Gwen, he still absolutely thinks (pretty understandibly) that it was Peter who ended Norman's life. Because of this, Harry decides that both he and Peter would be better off dead - and that their deaths would protect their loved ones from further harm.

It is only an outpouring of unconditional love from Peter (something Harry had never really felt before) that sways Harry from ending Peter’s life. He carries Peter out of the building where he had set up a timed bomb, but then seemingly dies himself (from side effects of the serum he'd taken to make himself stronger.)

🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻

Break!

🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻

Okay, this is here because this is getting long, but I don’t want to make it a two-parter, but also sometimes people need to take a break and breathe, you know?

I will also be concentrating more on post One More Day Harry in this section, though referring back to earlier comics as well. I will also be talking more about sex and romantic relationships, and how Harry's focus on his father (and Norman seeing himself as the most important person in Harry’s life) complicates things.

The Dan Slott and Joe Kelly runs leading up to and during Dark Reign were the first Spider-Man comics I read, and these were the issues where I first got to see the Osborns' relationship on page. What really struck me then about the relationship was how Norman talks to Harry more like a separated spouse than his grown child: 'I need you,' 'the world could be ours,' 'come home,' 'your place is here, by my side.'

During this period, Harry is pulling away from his father and trying to be independent, and Norman does not like this at all. He mocks Harry’s business ventures, then bombs Harry’s place of business - almost killing Harry’s then girlfriend Lily Hollister in the process. When Harry goes to confront him, Norman says that girlfriends are replaceable and tries to win Harry back. This, however, does not work, and shortly following this, Harry goes no contact.

Norman will not accept this boundary, however, or any boundary really. He admitted earlier to recording and listening to all of Harry’s therapy sessions, and when Harry won't answer his calls or letters, Norman has people spy on his son and report to him on everything Harry is doing. He then gets himself invited to a wedding that Harry is attending.

This is when he tells Harry that he needs him, something that does visibly affect Harry. Peter steps in between Harry and Norman, and tells Norman 'and that's what therapy's for.'

This scene is interesting because Norman does not like admitting that he needs other people, but also because Peter doesn't consider this (entirely) as a ploy on Norman’s part. He does think that Norman is being honest about 'needing' Harry. He just thinks that the way Norman seeks support from his son is unhealthy.

There is also an 'us'-ness in the Norman-Harry relationship, that is more typical of couples. This along with how Harry is thrust into this nurturing role with Norman, makes him (at times) seem more like his father’s spouse than his son.

And when Harry and Norman do end up cutting ties, Harry even says: 'I was never your son.'

◇ Amazing Spider-Man #573 - Dan Slott /John Romita Jr. || Amazing Spider-Man #595 - Joe Kelly/Phil Jimenez || Amazing Spider-Man #598 || Writer: Joe Kelly/Artists: Paulo Siqueira & Marco Checchetto || Amazing Spider-Man #599 - Joe Kelly/Stephen Segovia, Marco Checchetto, Paulo Siqueira ◇

This relationship with his father - before the eventual break up - does also lead to problems in Harry’s romantic relationships.

Because Norman basically sees himself as the centre of the universe and because he is very possessive of the people around him, Harry grew up internalising this idea that he belongs to his father and that he should prioritise Norman above everything else.

And because of this, Harry does tend to elevate and choose his father over his other relationships. Like how when he was seeing Mary Jane Watson, that relationship ended because Harry wouldn’t unlock the door for her - choosing to be alone with his dead father's costume over being with her. His marriage with Liz also deteriorates as Harry obsesses over avenging his father's death and continuing the Osborn legacy.

Of note, in these moments Harry isn't exactly thinking clearly - there are definitely signs of psychic breaks, with Harry having delusions and hallucinations. Still, a huge part of Harry's psyche is consumed by his father - to the detriment of other aspects of his life.

Even after Harry sees Norman as a bad person (acknowledging that his father was Gwen's killer and knowing for sure that Norman has committed countless other heinous crime), Norman still has a hold over his son. Harry still holds out hope for winning his father's love and approval - and completely dismisses his then girlfriend Lily Hollister's encouragement and support. Instead focusing entirely on his father's criticisms.

◇Amazing Spider-Man #595 - Joe Kelly/Phil Jimenez || Amazing Spider-Man Family #4 - J.M. DeMatteis/Val Semeiks || Amazing Spider-Man #390 - J.M. DeMatteis/Mark Bagley◇

◇Amazing Spider-Man #126 - Gerry Conway/Ross Andru || Spectacular Spider-Man #189 - J.M. DeMatteis/Sal Buscema || Amazing Spider-Man #569 - Dan Slott /John Romita Jr.◇

Another thing involving Lily Hollister - a rather controversial decision - was to have her be in sexual relationships with both Harry and Norman Osborn (with the timing being so close together that the paternity of her child was called into question.)

I actually don't think it's so surprising that Norman would go after someone his son was seeing. He is very self-centred and delusion enough to think that he could somehow get away with it.

Also, back in Amazing Spider-Man #96, there was this whole thing about Harry bringing along Norman to watch the girl he was then seeing - Mary Jane Watson - dance. It kind of comes across like Harry is trying to impress his father with how hot his 'girlfriend' is, and Norman is quite publicly enchanted by her.

There is something similar in the Raimi adaption where Harry Osborn wants Mary Jane Watson to dress in black (like Harry’s mother/Norman’s wife used to do) because he wants Norman to be impressed by her/find her attractive. Which people have pointed out is kind of weird/creepy.

Also kind of weird is just how much empathy Harry has towards Lily Hollister after she ditches him for his dad. Like yes, I think it's a coercive relationship, and Norman is much more to blame, but I still think most people would be a little more angry in this situation. And what Harry does say to Lily at the start of her and Norman's relationship is very interesting to me:

'He's an amazing man, Lily...I know, and he takes very special care of his "nice things"...until he doesn't.

I hope you see him for what he is before that happens...

Because when Norman Osborn is through with you, no one gets to have you.'

One) because it's really quite strange to call the father you suspect is sleeping with your ex-girlfriend 'an amazing man'

Two) because the way Harry is saying this makes it seems like it applies to both her and him. The 'I know' in particular stands out, because what he seems to be saying is 'I know exactly what you are feeling/going through right now.'

Which given that she is in 'romantic' relationship with his father certainly raises questions.

◇Amazing Spider-Man: Extra! #3 - Joe Kelly/Dale Eaglesham || Amazing Spider-Man #96 - Stan Lee/Gil Kane◇

In any case, I could probably write more, but this post is already more than long enough. I just find the dynamic between Norman & Harry Osborn fascinating because I don’t think it's one we see as often in fiction, and I love reading about dysfunctional families/relationships.

I also find post-OMD Harry really interesting, because I think it's even rarer to see a person, who was in a relationship like this, have to move on, fully cut ties, and figure out how to build a life for themselves without this person (who they had such codendency with.)

#harry osborn #norman osborn #analysis #spider man #peter parker #gwen stacy #liz allan #lily hollister #marvel comics #marvel 616 #my post

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maevesheart · 1 year

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let’s make a deal

ˏˋ°•*⁀➷ she-devil (02)

PETER PARKER X FEM!READER

summary: slapping peter parker has its consequences. but mr stark and your father make sure that this “community service” will work out in both of their favors. but that means asking things neither you nor peter may be able to do.

WC: 2k

TW: swearing

“what?!” your loud voice cuts through the tension in the small office of your principal.

your father’s face is hard and stern, and he hasn’t spoken a word the whole time.

he is sat to your left, peter is to your right, and peter’s aunt may is on his other side.

“there is no way i’m doing that,” you laugh, shaking your head.

“excuse me, mr morita, could you repeat that?” you father asks, raising an eyebrow.

he is just as upset as you are. this is pointless. as far as he can see; you stood up for yourself.

“of course, mr griswold. here at midtown, we do not condone violence of any kinds. miss griswold’s harassment of mr parker today in the cafeteria violates our school rules. since i am the principal, and i am in charge of keeping our school safe, i must give miss griswold a punishment.”

he finishes, looking at the four of you.

peter and you are sat as far away from each other as possible. his aunt has an anxious look on her face, and you feel sort of bad.

maybe you shouldn’t have slapped him…

no! y/n shut up! he spread lies about you! you are in the right, not him.

“i understand, mr morita, but i’m sure a weeks suspension is a little dramatic,” your father put on his work voice, demanding and frightening.

you found yourself wincing at his words. he was the only person you were ever scared of.

“my father’s right, sir, i only stood up for myself,” you defended, putting on your puppy-dog eyes.

“i’m sorry, miss griswold, but if you wish to change your punishment, you must go to the board of education.”

you sigh, pretty much accepting the defeat.

wait! this is peter’s fault, so why shouldn’t he go down too?

“mr morita, if i may,” you start,

“of course,”

“like i said, i was only standing up for myself. i felt attacked by peter’s cruel words and he was spreading lies about me. lies that include activities which i did not partake in. he is practically sexualizing me, which if i’m not wrong, goes against rule 142 of school conduct. surely he should receive some sort of punishment as well.” you reasoned, planting a sweet tone and a charming smile.

you watched the corners of your fathers mouth twitch into a smirk.

“you are right, miss. i suppose mr parker has broken rules as well. two weeks of community service for the both of you. that’s all.” he dismissed the four of you with the wave of his hand, and you and your father exited with grins on the both of your faces.

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COMMUNITY SERVICE; DAY ONE

when your matte black mclaren pulls up into the parking lot where you’re meeting peter, you immediately don’t want to be there.

after you left the school yesterday, peter had given you his number so you two could communicate on where to work. mr morita said the only way he would let you both back was if you did the work together.

you were dreading it.

the minutes felt like hours, so when peter finally walked up to you, you thought you had been sitting there for seven hours.

he eyed you, and raised an eyebrow at your outfit.

you were wearing black tights, a burberry skirt, a white turtleneck sweater, and knee-high black chanel boots. what was so wrong with your outfit?

you gave him a look and crossed your arms over your chest. normally you didn’t care what people thought of you…

“god this sucks!” you breathed out, throwing your head back.

peter rolled his eyes, and sat down next to you.

“listen, y/n, i’m sorry about what you think i did, but i suggest that we somehow find a way to work together to get this over with,” he spoke, watching you out of the corner of his eye.

“whatever, peter, i don’t really care!”

he shook his head and stood up, walking over to the woman with the clipboard.

you watched him walk away and huffed, he was getting on your nerves way more than you expected.

deep down, you knew that he didn’t say the things harry said he did. harry was like that though; he loved drama, and usually started it on his own.

once peter came back, he was carrying two black trash bags, and two metal sticks.

“what are those?” you asked, reluctantly taking them from him.

“our community service. now stand up,”

➴➵➶➴➵➶➴➵➶

“peter! i’m tired. can we rest?” you pleaded, watching him pick up crushed soda cans.

“fine. but only five minutes,” he sighed, shaking his head at your laziness.

he had done all the work, the only thing you could really said you did was complain.

sighing as he slumped down next to you, his head shot up as you squealed next to him.

“gregor!” you jumped up, running to the black bentley that pulled up next to the gazebo the two of you were seated at.

he stood up and hesitantly followed you, unsure of this strange man.

gregor — the man you ran to — offered peter a smile as he got out of the backseat, and extended his hand once peter was within reach.

“doctor gregor mathers. you must be peter parker, it’s a pleasure to meet you.”

peter examined the man before giving his hand.

they shook hands for a slight moment before you started practically climbing doctor mathers.

“pleaseee tell me you’ve come to save me! i need to get out of here!” you begged, inching closer and closer to the car door.

“yes, i have actually. the both of you. your father wishes to meet with you both.” gregor said sternly, motioning towards the car.

you climbed in immediately, gregor slid in next to you, and then when peter got in, he was across.

gregor told the driver to head for gris-rise, the building that held griswold tech, the company your father owned.

gregor had heard of peter’s internship at stark industries — the competition for your fathers company — so he was hesitant when your father announced he wanted both you and peter to come to his office.

one thing was for sure, gregor would be keeping an eye on peter.

➴➵➶➴➵➶➴➵➶

the elevator ride up to your father’s office was quiet and tense.

peter awkwardly stood opposite of you and gregor, and continuously shifted his weight from one foot to the other.

he watched you carefully as you applied lipstick using the long mirrors along the whole elevator. gregor stood closely next to you, keeping an eye on peter.

the doors chimed and opened wide, presenting your fathers completely glass office. 50 foot walls lined the entire room, completely dark grey glass windows.

his dark mahogany desk sat in the middle, with two grey plush chairs across from it.

your heeled boots clicked on the marble floor as you waltzed up to your father, who was faced away from you, standing up and staring out one of his many windows.

“hi, daddy,” you smiled, giving him a peck on the cheek as he turned around. “hello, darling,” he spoke back, turning around and facing peter and gregor with a glimmering smirk.

“welcome to gristech, peter parker.”

peter’s chest tightened as he lightly squinted, taking in your fathers smile. his teeth glinted white in the bright office, and he looked almost sinister.

peter lightly nodded, swallowing the lump in his throat, next to gregor.

“gregor you’re free to go, my biggest thank yous.” your dad smiled, giving gregor a squeeze on the shoulder.

“of course, ken. i’ll be back shortly,” gregor said, giving you a tight lipped smile and nodding to peter as he walked past him.

the sound of his expensive dress shoes echoed in the open room as you and peter were ushered to your fathers desk.

peter reluctantly sat down next to you, uneasily looking around and trying to find the quickest way to escape.

“i’m very happy you agreed to come here, mr parker. i’m kennedy griswold, ceo and president at gristech, but please just call me ken.” a bright smile once again exposed itself on your fathers face.

“of course, sir.” peter said, lightly bowing his head.

“now, i spoke to midtown, and principal morita agreed to let me bend the conditions of your community service just a bit. i figured you two would quickly tire of the slaving away they had you both doing. so instead, i’ve had both of you transferred here. to be my interns for these 2 weeks.”

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AVENGERS TOWER

tony’s fingers pressed into his temples, listening to peter jabber about what ken griswold had told him.

gristech was stark industries biggest competitor. obviously, tony wasn’t happy, but he figured that this could be used to his advantage.

“listen kid,” tony started, placing a hand on peters shoulder, “ken griswold is no dummy. in fact he might almost be as smart as me. there’s definitely a reason he’s doing this, and it’s not for his daughter; lord knows he’s never cared about his family. especially after what he did to his wife… but that’s besides the point.”

peter gave tony a confused look, wondering where he could be going with this.

“i want you to keep a close eye on ken griswold. see his next moves, what he’s making now. then come tell me. we will always be a step ahead.”

“sir, i don’t know if i’m cut out for it. you know i’m clumsy and sometimes stupid and,” peter awkwardly laughed and rubbed the back of his neck.

“you’re smart, parker. you’ll do what’s right, you think with your heart. just don’t trust the girl, she’s beautiful, yes, but she’s a little devil. i’ve heard the things she’s done.”

tony was talking about you, of course.

“make her fall for you. make her trust you. make her feel like she can tell you anything. get her to tell you everything. we need this information to get ahead, parker.”

peter shook his head. he wasn’t cut out for that. how could tony expect him to fake feelings for you when he’s loved you for years? how would he live with himself?

“mr stark…”

“i’m counting on you, kid. don’t let me down.” tony gave him a rough pat on the back, and left the room, leaving peter alone with his thoughts.

his jumbled, twisted thoughts. thoughts that were going to eat him alive.

➴➵➶➴➵➶➴➵➶

GRIS-RISE

“no! i absolutely will not be doing that!” you screeched, appalled that your father thought you would ever associated yourself with peter parker.

“y/n arabella griswold. this is not me asking. this is me demanding. you will get peter parker to trust you, and you will get peter parker to tell you everything he knows about stark industries. i do not care what it takes. want a new chanel? consider it done.”

“daddy! i don’t want to! i hate peter parker! how can you make me do this after those things he said about me?” you we’re shocked. your father was a bad man, you knew this, but he wasn’t evil.

this was out of character of him.

yet, as always, you complied. you would do anything for your fathers approval, something you had been seeking all your life.

you never had a problem getting approval from your mother. she was beautiful, and kind. like a ray of sunshine. your father was dark and gloomy like a thunderstorm. they balanced each other out.

ever since your mothers death when you were a mere child, things hadn’t been the same. your father turned dark and cold and shut you and georgie out.

so of course, if it meant you had to make peter parker fall in love with you to make your father proud, you’d do it.

it can’t be that hard, can it?

ˏˋ°•*⁀➷

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lizallanosborn · 3 months

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I know I said I would stop being a hater but it's baffling to me that I'll see comic harry fans online and they'll talk about him endlessly but they don't/very rarely bring up liz as if they don't literally have a child together and are important people in each others lives, for better or worse.

#puzzling posts #liz allan #harry osborn

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gelstertherealgel · 2 months

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Some spectacular gals from my twitter

#my art #reposted from my twitter #tssm #tssm gwen stacy #tssm mary jane #mj watson #gwen stacy #liz allan #sally avril #the spectacular spider man

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ambafaerie · 9 months

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Oh what a very funny reference

#marvel #petermj #peter parker #mary jane watson #emma frost #tony stark #official art #may parker #logan howlett #steve rogers #riri williams #jean grey #scott summers #james rhodes #liz allan #harry osborn #sebastian shaw

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karmaspidr · 2 months

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Past Peter: Can I ask you a question?

Peter: You mean besides the million other questions you already asked me?

Past Peter: No, this isn't about Spider-Man or the Avengers. It's... personal.

Peter: sigh No, you and Liz don't work out.

Past Peter: Wha- How did you..?

Peter: I'm you. Besides, you should be glad. Her dad is a super villain. Calls himself the Vulture. Sells alien weapons in the black market. You and I will be taking him down tomorrow.

Past Peter: ...

Peter: You should try befriending Michelle Jones. I know she can be... depressing but she's nice. Some of my best memories are with her.

Past Peter: ...ok.

Peter: And if that doesn't work out, there's this really nice rich girl called Kate. You'll love her.

#marvel #peter parker #incorrect quotes #spider man #spiderman #mcu #marvel cinematic universe #time travel #liz allan #liz allen #michelle jones #kate bishop #mcu spiderman #incorrect spiderman quotes #incorrect mcu quotes

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candicepatton · 9 months

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LIZ ALLAN IN SPIDER-MAN:HOMECOMING

#liz allan #spider man: homecoming #spidermanedit #filmedit #mcu #marveledit #marvelladiesdaily #dailywoc #usermorgan #userjessica #userisaiah #tuserluz #usersawah #tuservaleria #*

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why-i-love-comics · 11 months

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Cult of Carnage: Misery #1 (2023)

written by Sabir Pirzada art by Francesco Mortarino & Java Tartaglia

#liz allan #harry osborn #marvel #wednesday spoilers #spoilers #comic spoilers

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theopolis · 8 months

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#harry osborn #green goblin #liz allan #normie osborn #mark raxton #theopolispost #osborns #harry #memes

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hoardlikegoldenirises · 10 months

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more self-indulgence!!

one part headcanons one part this is just how they are in my AU probably—uh... watching a parade? idk actually. i just. drew them.

because... i felt like it.... there are still missing characters because spider-man has five million supporting characters which is truly both a blessing and a curse (also like, i didn't include any foes or villains lmao but rest assured at least two of peter's rogues are queer...)

i decided this is like 2019 or something for?? no real reason other than i guess a lot of the adults finally being out or whatever... idk... that would make peter and his friends around 30-32 on average (well no felicia would be like 34) so still youngish but also definitely Adults™...

the kids are meant to be late teens early 20s but drawing that very specific age group is like, way difficult... also all the youths are short compared to peter's friend group of exclusively 5'9" to 6' people XD (well gwen and harry are shorter so i guess it's fine XD)

some of these are more firm than others. like. should randy be straight? i dunno. is aunt may straight or are all the alive parkers bisexual lmao? idk. what about literally all of the teenagers except andi? i have no clue and a lot of the stuff with them is waaaay later and I am not anywhere close to, so i just put them all in rainbows cause why not! but i do think janine is a token heterosexual in this instance lmao—see, not ALL of my AU versions of characters are queer, just most of them

also i'm going to put a few close-ups/crops below the cut just because it's hard to see them in the lineup without zooming in or w/e

obviously felicia and peter are bisexual and flash is... probably also bi? but i'm really still not sure... but she is trans :) and they're probably poly together but even after writing man-spider i'm genuinely... not actually sure if felicia is peter and flash's girlfriend or not 😂 they've got SOMETHING going on with the three of them but what it is, idk... i think peter is definitely polyamorous regardless, it's just a question of whether their relationship is or not.

red and blue hearts on peter's cheek technically poly but double as spider-man LMAO—plus earplugs cause pride is loud…

obviously felicia's also into leather and bdsm and stuff (and so is peter...) so i included some little hints of that... but didn't bother including any of the kink flags cause there's only so much i can fit tbh a collar works well enough.

i made his tie teal satin because of the teal ribbon for sexual assault awareness. but just a hint, cause i don't think he would be comfortable being public about that. he's out and proud as a bi jewish dude with a trans wife but he's really not out about being a survivor to anyone except a few very close and trusted friends/family. similar for kaine. so a teal necktie is just something for him. he's been through a lot in his life but he's happy 🙂

anyway i think i made flash's hair shorter than it's supposed to be here but it's fine, maybe she got a trim or something

supportive aunts!! i already established like 3 years ago or something in some offhand line that MJ's aunt is an Eccentric Lesbian (huh wonder where she got that from—) so i'm sticking with the lesbian spinster aunt there. I don't know about Aunt May though. I always kind of waffled there on whether she's like straight, or bi... cause I like the thought of old ladies in love. I think maybe they have some kind of queerplatonic thing going on or something... either way she is proud of her boy :>

MJ I never know so I just go with the umbrella—she's Queer. What kind? Gender? Sexuality? Yes, (relatable)

What matters is that she is always Glamorous.

i don't have any deep reason for making Glory bi, i just thought it would be fun, and also cause I like Glory/MJ... they are so fun... they compliment each other so much... I know that can be a just straight gal pals thing but listen, i like it

Gwen is the lesbian who's a teeny tiny bit bisexual but mostly into women. Also: not dead. lmao.

Harry is 100% gay (and divorced) but I still don't know when/if he ever comes out. Liz will def be out as a lesbian by the late 20-teens though cause I think she starts exploring her sexuality w/in 3-4 years after she and harry get divorced... also cause i thought it would be funny if liz and lily (who i did not draw) hooked up LOL

i didn't draw the babies because i ran out of steam for that but they would be... what... i think normie might actually be in like 5th grade or something at this point now that i think about it... stanley would be like... 5 though

Hobie is bisexual almost entirely because when I read the newspaper strip and the prowler showed up, he and Peter were giving me Flirtation Vibes so he is bi, and also punk because I enjoy the aesthetic Spider-Punk has going on, so even though that's not going to be a thing in this universe, I still like to make some little nods to it. also it just feels like a fun combo. he's a kind of alt guy, he's not very straight, he's not very normal, he's had issues in his life trying to figure out who he wants to be... it feels like it just fits well... i like it

he gets MORE punk AFTER college and shaves half his head etc. (instead of having his twist-out), which is funny to me but you know, it takes time to figure shit out sometimes... i didn't draw his girlfriend Mindy (wife? idk if/when they get married in this AU...) cause like i said, omg, so many people to draw... also idk if she's like, straight or what. probably? there's gotta be SOME straight people XD how does she feel about hobie's fro-hawk...? hmm

ah, cain and abel ben (and janine)

Ben is bisexual... like Peter. They both prefer women to some extent, but they have slightly different tastes (...well maybe not SO different) and Ben is more uh, subby? LOL—at least with Janine. Switchy. Unlike Peter, Ben has/had? a crush on Robbie LMAO but that's more of a like, mentor/mentee admiration kind of thing... not like a "i wanna make out with you" situation. Robbie is far too old for him. and also happily married.

In my notes I have that Ben was ofc also abused by Warren but a lot of his was medical and psychological (some physical as well), but... i would think there is an undercurrent of medical sexual abuse there nonetheless esp as much of this w/ warren hinges on sexual power dynamics and control, but i won't get into that here as it's partly still being developed and I don't want to get TOO heavy on this post lol

Kaine is, like I mentioned, a little complex and i'm not 100% sure about (also aracely painted his nails) I think that he's ~bi/pan in general? but maybe not? could be only into men? or not into anyone at all. but the thing about Kaine in this universe is that he's got a difficult relationship with sex and sexuality because of what he was put through by Warren, so while I don't necessarily think he's asexual I do think in this universe he's a little bit sex-averse or sex-repulsed and has a difficult time dealing with that stuff. He also just really desperately wants to be loved and he doesn't care who as long as it's someone, which is toxic in a lot of ways i think... being around Aracely would imo help him a lot in coming to terms with having like, normal, platonic, non-sexual, non-romantic, healthy (or at least healthier) interpersonal relationships, and understanding things like that... idk where he's at by 2019 though, mental health-wise... but yeah i wasn't really sure what colors or patterns to put on his clothes so i went with the dark purple and gray tones since they are the kind of common recurring colors on a lot of ace-spec flags including repulsion and related stuff.

as a sidenote as someone who has a kind of aro and ??? relationship w/ my own bisexuality etc. (idk if i consider myself ace necessarily but it's not totally irrelevant) i also don't want to like, Just Make Him Ace because trauma (but obv betty is aro at least) cause it's not that simple etc etc etc but also there absolutely are people who consider themselves asexual from trauma or for whom it's informed by trauma (though trauma would inform any aspect of interpersonal relationships, of course, and for kaine it does)... idk idk kaine is always like, much to think about for me. He's def not like... "normal" in the eyes of cishet patriarchal culturally christian society. I mean he's disabled for one thing,

ofc peter has many similar traumas esp after meeting kaine and HE'S def not asexual (though peter is also disabled)

idk idk i am always thinking about it and never quite sure. kaine has a very complex and largely negative relationship with his body.

i was also considering genetic mosaicism (46,XY/47,XXY) but i did not include any intersex colors etc. because a lot of this wasn't fully hammered out yet when i drew this. I think Kaine is probably intersex though. It's not necessarily obvious to anyone who looks at him, but it's also not something that comes as a huge surprise to him.

obvs the tiny hint of a teal ribbon is the same as for Peter, sexual assault/abuse awareness, and it's small and easily hidden. probably was given to him by someone trying to be supportive (ben and janine maybe? idk)—i mean ALL of it is from other people really. the sticker on the noise cancelling headphones? def from Aracely or someone else. his presence in the first place? dragged out of the house by a 19 year old girl. he didn't even have time to do his hair and he would rather be drinking coffee in a dark room alone :/

Anyway, Janine. Less complicated.

I decided at some point Janine is straight (but not narrow, as they say) so she gets an ally shirt lol. Like Peter and Kaine, I put her in some teal including a little ribbon bow on some satin ballet flats—obviously her history as a sexual abuse survivor etc. is very, very public in contrast to peter and kaine (and arguably ben, though i don't think he necessarily conceptualizes his abuse by warren in the same way, in part because it was very medicalized) but... it's not like she would want to draw a lot of attention to that. but i also do just like teal so i think it looks nice.

like those are just genuinely cute shoes 😂 but also it's to tie it all together.

the kids, the teens, the youths,

i really don't... feel like i know enough about them to figure out sexualities or if any genders are involved, and I'm a million years away from including them in any fics so a lot of that stuff simply has not been built out right now cause finer details aren't relevant to me yet (like. i'm in 2007 rn? miles is like... 8. lmao), so I just put them in some fun rainbow-y stuff. teens like going to pride and wearing rainbows right??? i mean i did.

i'm SURE miles and ganke have got something going on i just don't know What Exactly. nerdy friends...? nerdy boyfriends?? something else??? miles is wearing a tracksuit to hide his spider-man costume lol.

aracely is an enigma, i don't think anyone knows what's going on with her tbh. she is there to have candy thrown at her. she seems to like boys at least a little though.

i actually do know what's up with Andi cause she's actually supposed to first appear in 200...8? when she's like. 10. she is trans, and she is also why Flash was able to accept herself more and also why Flash transitioned. Flash wanted to be a good role model to help Andi feel good about herself and to not make her feel like there was something wrong with her, and then later re: transitioning, Flash saw how happy Andi was and wanted to also... be happy like that even though she was scared. and Andi herself really was (will be, idk i never know what tense to use for this stuff) helped a lot by Flash trying to self-improve, by having a supportive babysitter, and a dad who loves her, and so on and so forth... makes a big difference!

Andi and Flash are kind of intentional contrasts here in that, where Flash took until her late 20s to really fully be able to accept herself, Andi is the kid who goes on puberty blockers in high school and knew right away she wasn't what everyone said she was. (Flash had like, hints of that, but really didn't even realize until around ~19 years old and wasn't able to act on it for like... 9 years whereas Andi just really got motoring lol)

also Andi is a lesbian 💖

As far as Betty! I wasn't sure about her at first but I was chatting with Kita and I was like, thinking about her relationships and stuff and thinking, you know, she seems kinda aro... and then i was like... I can just do that. If I want. So I did. so now Betty is aromantic (at least, in my little alternate universe) and ALSO bisexual 😂 Peter's social circle is just a bunch of quirky bisexuals. bi4bi4bi

also dolled the fuck up. Betty said "overdressed? i don't know her. a pearl necklace goes with everything." (...😜)

I also am not sure about Randy (he also just has not come up yet i guess...) but I was thinking, you know, IDK, maybe he's straight as well. two whole straight people. i know he's dated a couple of girls in 616 (...i mean... so have most of the male characters lol) including like, Norah... but I'm not 100% sure what I would do there. I did end up making him a little bit of a hipster 😂 he's probably like... heteroflexible or smth... 🤔

Maybe Randy is ALSO bisexual??? or queer of some flavor.............. at least seems to KNOW about community stuff

idek what the hell is going on with these four but Robbie and JJJ sure do run a bisexual-ass newspaper (...well now that i think about it peter doesn't technically work for them anymore by 2019 but i'm sure he drops the occasional photo) (still a lot of bisexuals)

jk jk there are plenty of other employees of presumably various sexualities including straight ones AND gay ones (probably?) but like, betty, glory, ben and peter are all bi here which struck me as amusing. Two 60-something year old men supportive by way of having a bunch of homos working at their newspaper. Also because it's funny to me to have Jameson be actually very chill about The Queers. something something "you don't tell me what to do in my private life, and i don't tell you what to do in yours!"

anyway that's it. have a gay day 🌈

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