#MDZS meta

[lgbtlunaverse]

I know that because the story takes place after wwx comes back jiang cheng's whole "i don't believe wei wuxian is actually dead i'm gonna keep obsessively looking for him" shtick got retroactively legitimized, but it is pretty important to remember that wei wuxian was in fact super dead the entire time and if it hadn't been for a depressed 20-something doing a suicide ritual, influenced to an unknown degree by a revenge plot that wasn't in play yet at the time of wwx's death, he would never have come back at all. And jiang cheng would've kept going "No! He's still out there I know it" for eternity with absolutely no proof or results.

Jiang Cheng, my man, what the fuck

#local man finds new and exciting means to cope with grief in the absolute worst way possible #jiang cheng: wei wuxian is still alive! he's somewhere out there! #jin ling: ok jiujiu let's get you to bed #mdzs #jiang cheng #wei wuxian #mdzs meta #yunmeng shuangjie

[muqingapologist]

i think it’s interesting how people often characterize lan wangji’s perspective of wei wuxian during and after the yiling laozi arc like “free my man, he did nothing wrong.” but to me, i feel like this is just selling short his character and his devotion to wwx. the way i see it, when wei wuxian is at his worst and in the years after when wwx comes back, lan wangji isn’t condoning his actions of that era. it’s more like, “i know you were trying to do the right thing, and things spiraled out of control, and i failed to help you back then, and i won’t fail you again.” it’s not wei wuxian’s actions that lan wangji is so defensive of but his intentions. even if lwj didn’t know at the time (and even when he comes back, at first) why wwx chose the ghostly path and gave up righteous cultivation, he has an unshakeable faith in wwx’s moral code, that wwx will do what he feels is right. or at least, doing what he thinks he needs to do to survive. this doesn’t necessarily mean that lan zhan thinks what wwx did as his mental state eroded WAS right. we see this so many times when lan zhan tries to help him, hoping that wwx will return to gusu with him. it’s not until it’s too late, when wwx is truly breaking down, that he understands that that wasn’t the right way to help wwx. the right way is to just be there for him, which is what he does when wwx returns. letting wwx make his own decisions while showing him that there is still someone who believes in him. imo this is much more meaningful than the other interpretation that i see a lot that i mentioned above. it’s about being there for wei wuxian even if he does make the wrong decisions because at the end of the day he knows that wwx, at his core, has good intentions.

#mdzs #mdzs meta #mo dao zu shi #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #wangxian #lan wangji #wei wuxian #lily posts

[doufudanshi]

ON GHOSTS AND DEMONS: Wei Wuxian's "demonic" cultivation?

There are a few big misconceptions I have repeatedly seen in English-speaking fandom about things that are fundamental to the story of MDZS. One of them is this—

Wei Wuxian is not a demonic cultivator.

To prove this, let's take a deep dive into the original Chinese text of MDZS.

(Adapted from my original gdoc posted on Twitter on May 27, 2022. All translations my own unless otherwise stated.)

Demon vs. ghost

Let's start from the very basics. In addition to orthodox cultivation using spiritual energy and a golden core, there are two other forms of cultivation that are mentioned in the novel:

魔道 (mó dào), or “demon cultivation/path.”

鬼道 (guǐ dào), or “ghost cultivation/path.”

To be clear, 魔 mo "demons" and 鬼 gui "ghosts" (and thus their respective cultivation/paths) are not interchangeable because of the in-universe worldbuilding within MDZS. Using the characters in the term 妖魔鬼怪 "monsters," MXTX created four distinct categories of beings, each of which has a strict definition in the novel. From chapter 4 (jjwxc ch 13):

妖者非人之活物所化; 魔者生人所化; 鬼者死者所化; 怪者非人之死物所化。 Yāo (妖) are transformed from non-human living beings; mó (魔) are transformed from living people; guǐ (鬼) are transformed from the deceased; guài (怪) are transformed from non-human dead beings.

And of course, WWX hoards all the ghost-type pokemon monsters at the Phoenix Mountain tournament, and he only exerts control over corpses, spirits, and the like (aka people who have already died). (As opposed to Xue Yang, who appears to have been actively trying to make 魔 "demons" out of living people with those "living corpses" of his, perhaps.) (And, ironically, in order to avoid showing necromancy / zombies on screen, CQL technically does show WWX practicing demon cultivation because everyone is "supposedly alive" even when they're corpses? Which is, funnily enough, far worse morally in the MDZS universe, lol.)

So, intuitively at least, we know that WWX must be practicing ghost cultivation—now let's look at some concrete examples from the book.

Running the numbers

1) 魔道 (mó dào) means “demon cultivation.” As such, it must use living humans.

魔道 appears one (1) time in the novel.

Yes, once. The only time it appears is in the term 魔道祖师 modao zushi, or the namesake of the novel, in chapter 2. This is a title the general public has given him through rumors:

魏无羡好歹也被人叫了这么多年无上邪尊啦、魔道祖师啦之类的称号，这种一看就知道不是什么好东西的阵法，他自然了如指掌。 Wei Wuxian wasn’t called titles like “The Evil Overlord,” “The Founder of Demon Cultivation,” and so on over the years by others for nothing—he knew these sorts of obviously shady formations like the back of his hand.

2) 鬼道 (guǐ dào) means “ghost cultivation.” As such, it must use dead humans. 

鬼道 appears 12 times in the novel.

Here is the first instance that 鬼道 appears, which I believe is the first time Wei Wuxian's method of cultivation is properly introduced. From chapter 3 (jjwxc ch 8):

蓝忘机 […] 对魏无羡修鬼道一事极不认可。 Lan Wangji […] had never approved of the fact that Wei Wuxian practiced ghost cultivation.

Here's another quote from chapter 15 (jjwxc ch 71) for funsies:

蓝忘机看着他，似乎一眼就看出他只是随口敷衍，吸了一口气，道：“魏婴。” Lan Wangji looked at him as if he saw through his half-hearted bluff. He took in a breath, then said, “Wei Ying.” 他执拗地道：“鬼道损身，损心性。” He stubbornly continued, “Ghost cultivation harms one’s body, and harms one’s nature.”

3) 邪魔歪道 (xiemowaidao) means heretical path/immoral methods/evil practices/underhanded means/etc—e.g., lying, cheating, stealing, bribery, and so on.

It appears ~24 times in the novel.

I mention this last term because it is often used to refer to Wei Wuxian's cultivation, but as a pejorative. Every instance of 邪魔歪道 is said by or to quote someone looking down upon Wei Wuxian’s cultivation (Jin Zixun, Jin Ling, etc.) and referring to it derogatorily, whereas every instance of 鬼道 guidao/ghost dao is said by someone discussing it neutrally and/or factually (Lan Jingyi, Lan Wangji, Wei Wuxian himself, random cultivators at discussion conferences, the narration, etc.). Here is a pertinent example with Jin Ling (derogatory) and Lan Jingyi (neutral) in chapter 9 (jjwxc ch 43):

金凌怒道：“是在谈论薛洋，我说的不对吗？薛洋干了什么？他是个禽兽不如的人渣，魏婴比他更让人恶心！什么叫‘不能一概而论’？这种邪魔歪道留在世上就是祸害，就是该统统都杀光，死光，灭绝！” “We are discussing Xue Yang,” Jin Ling said angrily. “Am I wrong? What did Xue Yang do? He’s scum that’s lower than a beast, and Wei Ying is even more disgusting than him! What do you mean ‘don’t make sweeping generalizations?’ As long as those practicing this kind of demoniac, heretical path are alive, they’ll continue to bring disaster. We should slaughter all of them, kill all of them, annihilate them once and for all!” 温宁动了动，魏无羡摆手示意他静止。只听蓝景仪也加入了，嚷道：“你发这么大火干什么？思追又没说魏无羡不该杀，他只是说修鬼道的也不一定全都是薛洋这种人，你有必要乱摔东西吗？那个我还没吃呢……” Wen Ning shuffled around. Wei Wuxian gestured at him to stay still, only to hear Lan Jingyi also cut in loudly, “Why are you getting so riled up? It’s not like Sizhui said Wei Wuxian shouldn’t have been killed. All he said was that people who practice ghost cultivation aren’t necessarily all like Xue Yang. Do you have to go around breaking things? I didn’t even get to eat any of that yet…”

Tl;dr—Wei Wuxian does not 修魔道 practice demon cultivation. When Wei Wuxian’s craft is discussed in a neutral and factual manner, it is referred to as 鬼道 ghost dao. 

In fact, Wei Wuxian’s imitators are also referred to explicitly as 鬼道修士 ghost cultivators.

魏无羡早就听说过，这些年来江澄到处抓疑似夺舍重生的鬼道修士，把这些人通通押回莲花坞严刑拷打。 Wei Wuxian had heard a while back that over the past few years, Jiang Cheng had gone around snatching any ghost cultivator suspected of being possessed or reborn, detaining them in Lotus Pier to interrogate them using torture.

So why the confusion?

Of course, there is the matter of the novel's title, which I will get into in a second. But the real issue is a matter of translation.

The idea that WWX uses "demonic cultivation" is a misconception in English-speaking fandom due to issues with the translation of terminology. Of note, EXR actually did translate 鬼道 guidao as "ghostly path" most of the time, though there were at least 3 instances of "demonic" and 1 instance of "dark," especially regarding the first few.

However, this misconception was perpetuated (and arguably worsened) by 7S's official translation, which not only mistranslated additional terms as "demonic cultivation/path" (at least in book 1), but also consistently mistranslated every instance of 鬼道 as "demonic cultivation/path."

So why is this book called 魔道祖师, commonly translated as "Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation?"

One possibility is one posed in Chinese-language meta online, which often cites that WWX himself is a sort of 魔 demon. While this may be true—after all, he can hear the voices of the dead—it doesn't quite explain the fact that the title sets him up to be the 祖师 or "founder."

My take is that this novel is very much concerned with hearsay vs. truth. This is one of the many monikers WWX is given by the public, who collectively view him as evil. (Also of note is that the non-cultivator public is not aware of all the nuances that cultivators learn re: distinctions between the 妖魔鬼怪 monsters.) In the quote from earlier, note that the first title we're given is actually 无上邪尊 “The Evil Overlord,” then 魔道祖师 "The Founder of Demon Cultivation." Like, what can that be other than MXTX telling us, "please take both of these with a HUGE grain of salt, lol."

(And not only the title, but the very first line—"魏无羡死了。" / "Wei Wuxian is dead."—is a lie.)

I think the title is genius, honestly. It intentionally makes readers come into the novel with preconceived notions that Wei Wuxian practices 魔道 demon cultivation and evil techniques—just like the public in the novel. What better way to tell a story warning about the dangers of how easy it is to fall for misinformation and jump to incorrect conclusions?

(Though, in our case, perhaps it worked a little too well.)

#魔道祖师 #mdzs #mdzs meta #mdzs translation #wei wuxian #wwx #demonic cultivation #ghost cultivation #mine #doufudanshi translation #crossposted from twitter #(sort of)

[symphonyofsilence]

I'm never getting over the symbolism of Jin Guangyao's coffin being sealed under the weight of Meng Shi's fallen statue! As if His fate had already been sealed by his mother's profession from the beginning and no matter how high he climbed it would always come to this!

And finally, he got crushed and buried under the weight that had been on him all his life. When all he ever wanted to do was to cherish his mother. He built a temple for her and made a statue of her as a god but in the end, he ended up in Meng Shi's coffin sealed by Meng Shi's statue, in what was once the brothel in which they both were abused.

#jin guangyao #meng yao #meng shi #mdzs #Cql #the untamed #mo dao zu shi #chen qing ling #the grandmaster of demonic cultivation #my two cents #mdzs meta

[wutheringskies]

The XuanWu Cave Scene is basically Lan Zhan absolutely losing it

Lan Wangji really just saved Wei Ying's life, screamed at Wei Ying, shoved him like thrice, told him not to flirt with people if he doesn't mean it, bit him like a dog, cried, told him to shut the hell up and that he is a fucking menace, took his underrobe, then apologized to him twice sincerely, then told him not to over think anything, then saved his life, then made him rest and grill him upon his sleeping schedule, then antagonize him, then stroke his hair while he's sleeping and let him roll about in his lap, then be angry at being called boring and then sing a song he'd written for Wei Ying to profess his immense love for him.

like

lan wangji is a fucking 13 year old teenage girl in love with that one popular guy in school. he's LOSING his goddamn mind. it's on "red hot alert" and alarm bells screeching in his head.

#canon lan wangji #lan wangji #wangxian #mo dao zu shi #mdzs #wei wuxian #mdzs meta #my meta #my thoughts #my essays

[enby-axels]

imo reducing the jiang clan dynamics to "wei wuxian was only a servant, never family" undermines the tragic reality that he was both. his position was a dubious, unclear thing, complicated by his debts and the jiangs' varying intentions.

jiang yanli had called him her brother and treated him like one in direct defiance of their class differences and her mother's words. jiang fengmian had seen wwx as a replacement for his parents, not a son, as evident in his passive refusal to defend wwx and his prioritization of his actual son's life. yu ziyuan had seen him as an arrogant servant transgressing class norms and threatening her son's position, and she had consequently scapegoated him at every turn. jiang cheng, the youngest, inherited all of their sentiments in one way or another.

the love was there, it was not enough. so mdzs concludes the jiang clan sub-plots by having jc let wwx leave. that's important. he chose to let to go of the yunmeng shuangjie promise, the oath of fealty. because wwx's position with the jiangs — a brother, yet also a servant, an outsider, never an equal, certainly never a son, bound by duty — made a mockery of love. i think that's more tragic than him being solely a servant and nothing more.

and not to make this lan wangji (actually, everything is always about lan wangji), but that's why it's so important that wwx found a home in him, in a relationship that has no need for debts like "thank you" and "sorry."

#mdzs #mdzs meta #my meta #wei wuxian #jiang yanli #jiang fengmian #yu ziyuan #jiang cheng #wangxian #relationship analysis

[esoteric-oracle]

Y'all, friendly reminder that Wei Wuxian was not actually a demonic cultivator. I honestly found it shocking how prevalent the misconception that he uses demonic cultivation is, and how casually people throw the term around. His title as “Mo Dao Zu Shi” is intentionally misleading, as Wei Wuxian himself states many times in the novel that he does guidao  - the Ghost path.

This fact is probably more obvious to those who've read more xianxia novels (especially for Chinese readers, whom MDZS was geared towards), where demonic cultivation is a pretty common trope. Classically, “demonic cultivation” involves actual demonic actions, (ie. eating another cultivator’s golden core) - and MXTX deliberately used a subversion of that trope. Demonic cultivation in MDZS would require demons - something heavily lampshaded when Lan Qiren asks Wei Wuxian the difference between yao, mo, gui, and guai in the Cloud Recesses Study Arc. MXTX literally spoonfed the difference between demonic and ghost cultivation to readers in this scene, but I still see people perpetuating the belief that he was an actual demonic cultivator.

Demons come from living humans, so in the context of MDZS, the only true demonic cultivator we saw was Xue Yang, who use living corpses. Wei Wuxian only ever used the dead and resentful ghosts to do his bidding. The title of MDZS is a deliberate misnomer meant to act as commentary on how easily wrongful rumours and slanders spread, especially given how many criticisms tossed Wei Wuxian's way weren't even accurate - and somehow, 95% of readers fell for the same trap.

It's even worse how the official 7Seas translation perpetuates this misconception, by using "demonic" and modao to refer to Wei Wuxian's cultivation when he explicitly refers to his cultivation as guidao in the ExR translations and original text.

#mdzs #wei wuxian #demonic cultivation #guidao #ghost cultivation #mdzs meta

[thatswhatsushesaid]

more cql episode 23 thoughts, of the xiyao and twin jades variety

i just find it so very, very telling that the framing of this sequence of events has lan wangji sitting moodily all by his lonesome at his little table in the scorching sun palace

and then we see him shift his attention very deliberately--

--to lan xichen sharing a toast with jin guangyao (who as always only has eyes for his er-ge when er-ge is in the room). and then the camera returns to lan wangji's severe, pretty face and slightly downcast eyes, right before he stands up--

--and goes to find wei wuxian. it's so straight forward in its simplicity and execution, but imo speaks volumes about the emotional intimacy we are meant to infer about both relationships.

#mdzs meta #cql #xiyao #jin guangyao #lan xichen #wangxian #wei wuxian #lan wangji

[imafraidoftomorrow]

I love that MXTX made the seemingly big bad "Evil Overlord, Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation" main character a fucking virgin with a breeding and CNC kink.

Smh Lan Wangji could have gotten Wei Wuxian back to Gusu so easily if he had just blindfolded him and told him he was getting him pregnant.

#i love them ur honor #mxtx was so real for that #mxtx mdzs #mxtx #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #mdzs lan wangji #mdzs lan zhan #mdzs lwj #lan wangji #lan zhan #lwj #hanguang jun #mdzs wei wuxian #mdzs wei ying #wei wuxian #wei ying #yiling patriarch #mdzs meme #mdzs meta

[rejectedfables]

MXTX: so the story starts with the main character's death. Then we unravel his story and how he tried his best but had to resort to fucked up methods in order to create real change and save lives, how society supported him while it benefited them and then turned on him when it was convenient, how his complicated social status of being gentry-adjacent was intrinsically tied into every decision he made AND how he was judged before during and after those decisions, how he experienced abuse and abandonment and support and love, saved lives AND killed people. He sacrificed everything but never compromised his ideals once, and it got him killed.

MXTX: and then we close the story on the death of this other guy, who we're also shown having gone through ALL THAT SAME STUFF, except this guy compromises every single time and that ALSO got him killed.

MXTX: neither of them were killed because it was "right" to, or because they were "evil", but because those with power in society were done with them. Their past actions were used to excuse their executions, and it's kinda fucked up actually, wouldn't you say?

MDZS fandom: 1 billion years of meta on why JGY is an irredeemable villain, and WWX is a pure cinnamon roll

#Mdzs #Wwx #Jgy #mo dao zu shi #Jin Guangyao #Meng Yao #Wei Wuxian #Mdzs meta #the untamed #chen qing ling #Cql #the grandmaster of diabolism #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #Jgy is not a villain he's Wei Wuxian 2 and somehow everyone missed it #Like i know the adaptations made him worse on purpose but yall... its propaganda censorship purity wank... #Open your third eye and embrace complexity or you will fail

[yingandzhan]

A lot of stuff floating around about the Chinese concept of hun and po souls in reference to MDZS at the moment, as well as the usual stuff concerning WWX's cultivation, yet again.

Very, very brief explanation on hun/po: When a person dies po souls stay with the dead body and eventually go back to the earth. The hun souls go up to the heavens to face retribution and eventual reincarnate.

Firstly, before I continue, this is not the same for all xianxia novels and beliefs around hun and po. But, from what I can see in the Chinese text, MXTX has it that the hun souls that usually go off to eventually reincarnate when someone dies are trapped on the earth and form ghosts/various types of moving corpses when they possess resentment. Hun is mentioned in a number of places and the most compelling evidence I've found is the name of the Gusu Lan's "evocation" song which is aptly named 招魂 (zhāo hún) - this is the song they play when they are trying to contact a restless spirit using a part of it's body or a beloved item.

This shows us that it is not the po souls they are trying to save or suppress, but the hun souls - they are actively trying to help people move on, unless they have to suppress or even destroy them (preventing them from reincarnating ever again) if they refuse to see reason and pose a threat to the living.

WWXs cultivation gives the souls trapped on earth another chance to move on if 'liberation' does not work. Rather than suppressing the soul and prolonging their time trapped on earth or completely destroying them as is the third and final option available to cultivators, he has invented a fourth option - to help the souls use up their resentment (in a safe and controlled manner) that allows them to move on and reincarnate also. WWXs cultivation method is NOT EVIL and does NOT DISRUPT the reincarnation cycle - he's helping the souls that would usually be suppressed or exterminated. He is saving hun souls by using guidao, he is helping them move on and live again where most cultivators would hunt and destroy them instead.

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #mdzs novel #wei wuxian #hun and po souls #mdzs translation #mdzs meta

[archiveoftragedies]

In mdzs, when the public opinion started shifting and everyone turned on jgy it made me feel vindicated. Finally they're siding with me against the guy that keeps pissing me off. But that only lasted an instant. Slowly, progressively, I started going wait. Wait no hold on. Go back. I didn't mean it that way go back. Because they were saying about jgy the exact same bullshit they had been saying about wwx the entire novel. And suddenly it felt really off.

Then, during the flashbacks leading up to Nightless City, I kept thinking back on that thing wwx tells nhs in volume one, when nhs explains his family's solution to their haunted saber problem. "Well, that's hitting a bit close to the demonic cultivation path". Doesn't nhs refuse to swordfight as well? Is he even carrying a sword? How come he can get away with this (and wwx can't)?

Wwx and jgy have similar origins but were raised in different environments. They learned similar survival methods and tried to play by the rules up until they couldn't anymore. They had the two more prominent roles in winning the sunshot campaign, and yet everyone forgot about that the second they decided they were irredeemable. They met similar ends, fighting and protecting people they loved.

Nhs became the kind of person his brother would despise in trying to avenge him. He became like his brother's murderer. His survival method is also trying to make himself seem harmless, not with polite smiles or clever distractions but with tears. The only reason he didn't meet the same end as the other two is that he managed to stay out of the public's eye, and because his reputation was unstained from the beginning. Although I should note that he is Nie Mingjue's half-brother, which might hint at a more complicated heritage, more similar to that of the other two, than one would suspect at first glance. But whether that's the case or not, the point is that nobody would call nhs a bastard, and that means that people will overlook certain things he does that have condemned the other two to death.

That's what makes them such great narrative foils. In the end all three of them are cheating, but nhs had better cards to begin with.

#mdzs #mdzs meta #wei wuxian #nie huaisang #jin guangyao #wwx did most things out of love while jgy did most things to get ahead in life #but jgy went out of his way to help people he loved too #given his childhood his goals are not less noble than the other two's just because they're selfish #most of the things jgy did he was forced to do or genuinely saw no other choice. and most of them he doesn't regret #but also #why should he have helped lan xichen. then a stranger. when he was fleeing the destroyed cloud recesses #qin su would have suffered more than him if they had not married #call me lan xichen the way i will apologize for yao-mei's crimes #mo dao zu shi #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #mxtx #my meta

[liverbiver9]

i’ve been thinking about modern au huaisang recently, and while i do think it’s charming to have him still use a fan, i’ve been trying to come up with a modern equivalent. literally been wracking my brain trying to think of something until i was in the shower today and i felt so stupid for not thinking of it earlier:

huaisang would use his phone.

he would be that motherfucker with an iphone max or something that doesn’t even fit into the back pocket of his skinny jeans, which he claims is an excuse for him to buy more designer handbags to carry the damn thing. everyone thinks he’s chronically online (which may actually be true but not in the shallow, narcissistic way they assume) because he never puts it down. it’s always up in his face, at least covering his mouth, as he types and scrolls away.

when someone has their phone out, it is universally assumed they aren’t paying attention to what is going on around them. so huaisang, who never seems to put his down unless he’s shopping or gossiping, is assumed to be completely engrossed in his online sphere rather than what’s around him. he’s the one everyone tells to go outside and touch grass. but the thing is, he’s always paying attention. his eyes may be glued onto his screen, but his mind and ears are focused elsewhere.

his brother has tried locking his phone up, throwing it away, even breaking it, but huaisang just sees this as an opportunity to buy himself a new one, so it’s a lost cause. all his friends tease him about it but don’t truly complain because he puts the phone down when it really matters most.

the point of his fan in mdzs is to paint him as frivolous and naive, as well as to hide his face and accentuate the fact that he’s not paying attention. so if we were to translate that to modern time, that would be a fucking phone

god i felt so stupid when i realized it because it seems so obvious in hindsight

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #nie huaisang #i really don’t know! #nie mingjue #the untamed #nhs #cql #ideas #mdzs meta

[icyolive]

"Wen Ning hadn't gone over to help support Wei Wuxian in the first place, nor followed them into the cabin. Instead, he crouched on the deck outside. The boys had found this strange at first, wondering why he didn't go in. It was only now that they realized just how wise the Ghost General truly was."

Wen Ning: Follow Hanguang-Jun as he bridal carries Wei-gongzi into a small enclosed area? After a fraught day of fighting corpses, getting dissed by the cultivation world again, and meeting dead loved ones? No I Do Not Think I Shall.

#mdzs #mdzs meta #rereading mdzs #wei wuxian #wwx #lwj #lan wangji #wangxian #wen ning #ghost general and professional third wheel wen ning

[sandumilfshou]

constantly thinking about the headcanon that wei wuxian's ghost lady harem are made up of women who were either prostitutes or killed by men, so they dont trust men at fucking all, but wwx is the exception (or maybe not, i like playing with wwx's gender identity) and he is SO fucking protective of them while also giving them the power they need to protect themselves and get revenge if they need to. what if he gave them the strength to get revenge on the men who killed them / treated them badly in life, and then in gratitude they decide to hang around this tragic absolutely pathetic dumbass of a necromancer because he needs people with braincells and they need to protect their sweet idiot boy and if they enjoy playing it up and acting like hes a sexy powerful demon king to scare people all the better

#mdzs #mdzs meta #wwx meta #wei wuxian #idk how to tag shit ngl #the untamed #i was gonna tag cql then remembered he doesnt have them in the show. a pity

[wutheringskies]

List: Wei Ying's Attitude Towards Lan Zhan (Pt 1)

Cloud Recesses Arc (Chronological)

1. First Impression: Lan Zhan is very, very pretty with a stern expression on his face, as if he's in mourning. Learning of his reputation, learning that he's well-spoken, smart and academically an ace.

2. Their dynamic forms: Wei Wuxian is annoyed by how Lan Wangji treats him, how he appears to be an immovable polished piece of jade and wishes to break through his composure by annoying him - he wants to be treated specially.

3. Respecting Lan Zhan's talents and genuine desire for friendship: Learning that Lan Zhan's reputation isn't fake. Despite being so young, he can carry three people onto his sword, think logically, and help people. Secondly, Wei Wuxian respects his integrity as Lan Zhan punishes himself as well for breaking the rules, despite the gap in their status. He wishes to become closer to Lan Wangji as they share similar values.

4. The first tones of romance: Wei Wuxian has always been interested in seeing how Lan Wangji would be as a romantic partner, thus baiting him with porn and "girls in Yunmeng." As Wei Wuxian hangs out with his friends, he sees Lan Wangji alone and wants to give him friends as well - the kind that Lan Wangji will like - so, he gives him two rabbits, which were in a compromising position and turned out to be both male. Secondly, he is very interested in Lan An's story as this is a new context to be applied to Lan Wangji.

Pre-Sunshot Campaign

1. Lan Wangji as his maiden: Wei Wuxian unknowingly always puts Lan Wangji into the place of a "maiden" - what I mean by this is that, when the girls chase after him in Yunmeng, he sighs and thinks of Lan Wangji. When he sees Lan Wangji's forehead ribbons, he thinks of pulling a girl's ponytails and tugs it. Thus, he has moved on from baiting Lan Zhan with girls to see how he would be in a romantic context to placing Lan Zhan as the maiden in a heterosexual context.

2. Stage of Denial: As Wei Wuxian's feelings for Lan Wangji keep surging subconsciously, yet he keeps facing with one rejection after the other, a proud man as him enters the stage of denial. Here, he constantly lies to himself, gives excuses for his actions, hides his thoughts and reframes events - aka, he gaslights himself.

• We know he has been thinking of Lan Zhan well after studying in Gusu (he studied for 3 months, Jiang Cheng studied for a year. In the lotus pod extra he's still talking about Lan Zhan and it's a common occurrence, so at least until 9 months later, he's still talking about him) yet he says in Qishan Archery Competition that he has forgotten about him. Secondly, he says he doesn't recognize Lan Wangji, yet he mentions that his fingers look suited to playing the guqin, thus he already recognizes this handsome man and his emotions surge, yet he calms himself down by framing his thoughts to make himself seem less attached.

• This behavior continues throughout the Qishan Wen Indoctrination. He went to Mianmian's side to get the perfume pouch after he heard it had medicinal herbs, and Lan Zhan's leg was injured. Yet Lan Zhan gets jealous and refuses his help, Wei Wuxian later takes a jab at his broken leg when he's bejng supported by Jiang Cheng - upset that he was refused once more.

• At this point, 2 years after meeting Lan Zhan, Wei Wuxian is giving up on his thoughts of them becoming friends, even petulantly whining to Lan Zhan, that "why do you not like me???"

• He shoves all of his feelings down, and accepts that he needs to give Lan Zhan more space.

• Yet even after the Xuanwu Cave, we can see that though he wished to give Lan Zhan more space, he continued to ask questions after question about him to Jiang Cheng.

Sunshot Campaign

1. Takes a Hint: Now, Wei Wuxian is no longer a child. He has been through too many things, has too many responsibilities to worry about his "childhood ambition" of becoming friends with Lan Zhan. After his return, the first thing they do is have a fight - to Wei Wuxian's point of view, it is that, after each of his attempts to become closer have been squashed, now finally they're fighting - aka, they are on opposite sides. Thus, Lan Wangji suddenly turning 180 degrees back by wanting to take him back to Gusu registers as a "punishment." He simply can't even imagine a context where Lan Zhan likes him. Thus, this stage, I call - Wei Wuxian takes a hint (the wrong one.)

2. Confusion and Hurt: Wei Wuxian is already suffering through major identity crisis and plenty of trauma. In such a setting, he cannot evaluate Lan Wangjj's actions and arguments with him as "concern, care or worry." He cannot think of his opinions over digging graves etc as "righteous." Lan Wangji is "against him." Wei Wuxian suppresses his feelings well, and has moved on from wanting to be friends. Yet he does not agree with those who call them enemies - refusing to take Lan Zhan's behavior towards him as "hate."

Post-Sunshot Campaign

1. Hiding all his weaknesses: Now, Sunshot Campaign is over and Wei Wuxian is very aware that he's going to be hated by everyone sooner or later. He's scared and he doesn't know what to do, where he stands, and also regrets some of what he has done. He is without any backing, without any support - he covers up his vulnerability by standing up too tall, by talking arrogantly, by pretending that he's so strong - in his act, he doesn't notice Lan Zhan subtly moving towards him (metaphorically and literally), and walks past him, leaving him behind.

2. Shifting of Dynamic, Rekindling Hope and Extreme Fear and Vulnerability: Now that for the first time in years, that Wei Wuxian has time to breathe and momentarily, no immediate responsibilities or distractions his feeling surge again. He is still in denial about his feelings, but now the amount of gaslighting he does is truly remarkable. Firstly, he wished to place Lan Zhan in a romantic context (whether or not it included him), secondly he imagined Lan Zhan as a maiden for HIM, now thirdly, he is placing himself into the spot of "the maiden"

-> Throwing flowers at Lan Zhan along with other girls

-> Conveniently making the remark that of course, he doesn't imagine that Lan Zhan will ever take the initiative and kiss someone (aka, he wishes Lan Zhan will take initiative because he's put himself out there for so long, and he is tired.)

Now, Wei Wuxian's feelings towards Lan Zhan are very much real, the minor crush growing into something more - like a flower bud that wants to be watered to bloom. But since it isn't welcomed, he forces them back into his heart:

1. Admitting he finds Lan Zhan handsome - admitting some degree of physical attraction and admiration by throwing a flower at him.

2. Asking for his headband knowing it is somehow symbolic (something important to him, a privelege). Subconsciously playing Wangxian, and then finally getting kissed. For some reason, he FAILS to mention Lan Zhan's signature scent of sandalwood despite his senses being so keen. Why? In my opinion - it's him suppressing that thought. He knows the maiden is remarkably strong, he has an inkling that it is HIM so, he allows the kiss to go on, excusing it with the excuse that "how embarrassed the maiden will be once he sees her." After all, even when Lan Zhan asks him much later "you didn't know whom the person was so why didn't you resist, and then why did you tell me this?" Wei Wuxian doesn't answer him, but instead laughs at him for being jealous. In truth, I feel, this is another one of Wei Wuxian's deflections.

He knows admitting that he smelt the sandalwood would make it impossible for him to not relate to Lan Zhan. He knows only Lan Zhan was in the vicinity. He knows only Lan Zhan has showed any significant connection to him - someone like Wei Wuxian would definitely know if a girl liked him. But he can't read Lan Zhan. He also knows Lan Zhan is conveniently acting different than usual - yet, he doesn't probe too much, which is uncharacteristic of him. Not to mention, Lan Zhan is showing significant negative emotion towards him - asking him to go away. Wei Wuxian subtly sneaks in one of the doubts he's carried for three years now, "do you hate me?" But it's unanswered. Wei Wuxian is afraid and he's feeling self conscious again, eyes tearing up, so what does he do?

Act pretentious.

"Of course, I've a lot of experience. Even if it was you, it doesn't matter, haha. This isn't special to me. You aren't making me feel anything special. You aren't making me weak. You aren't hurting me."

After this, he is relieved. He has hid well. His feeling are hidden perfectly. To confirm, he even asks Lan Zhan og he's ever kissed, etc. Lan Zhan doesn't say yes or no, but Wei Wuxian has convinced himself that it wouldn't have been Lan Zhan. He makes up an imaginary maiden who kissed him. He says he never tried to find her to not embarass her. After he is sure it wasn't Lan Zhan, he is not interested in finding out who kissed him.

Successfully gaslighted □

The next incident is at Yunmeng, and it's by far the most obvious thing Wei Wuxian has done to show his feelings towards Lan Wangji. He casually admits that Lan Zhan is very handsome, and bestows plenty of flowers of all meanings upon him.

But the most important is the peony. Wei Wuxian reaches out towards Lan Wangji all the time. Each time, he's a bit more hurt, a bit more scared, a bit more vulnerable. So, this time, he's giving Lan Wangji and his surging feelings a chance - either Lan Wangji takes it and he allows his feelings to surge, or Lan Wangji doesn't take it and he swallows all his feelings back inside, rewrites the whole narrative and moves on with his life.

Thus, he throws out a flower that can either mean "a confession" or a separation.

He doesn't expect Lan Wangji to come up the inn. He expects it to be a separation. But he does come up - yet what follows is an argument, their last one. From Lan Wangji's point of view, it is also last time he asks Wei Wuxian to come to Gusu with him - to walk the same path moving forward, a last offer of protection. In a way both of them are confessing, yet they don't know.

When they part on dubious terms, Wei Wuxian doesn't know what to do - Lan Wangji DID come up, he did talk to him - that is not indifference or hate. It does not guarantee separation. Wei Wuxian just takes it as concern, without any confirmation from Lan Wangji himself.

Now, Wei Wuxian goes back to Lotus Pier in a dark mood. He says he met someone who wanted to lock him up - in a way, it must be addressed that Wei Wuxian's feelings are like chains for him. They don't liberate him. He needs to constantly suppress them. Jiang Cheng remarks it must have been Wei Wuxian who called out to Lan Wangji. Wei Wuxian comments that he himself is ridiculous. He is frustrated over his feelings, unable to understand why he is placing himself into a position like this, why he has hopes only for them to be crushed again and again, yet unable to actually realize anything as he hasn't admitted it all to himself yet. Later, they talk about Yanli and Zixuan, and Wei Wuxian finds himself the perfect cover to talk to his shijie. He asks why people like one another - why does he have to feel so scared and afraid and vulnerable - and tells himself he's asking on part of his shijie. He convinces himself that he won't ever like anyone that much, thus once again - suppressing his feelings.

Later, at Koi Tower, he drinks from Lan Wangji's cup, unable to see him be disrespected and presents his case to the banquet. He ends up having to threaten everyone. Wei Wuxian HAS to make himself into something he is not. He's unafraid. At least that is what he wants to think.

Wei Wuxian glanced over at him (Lan Wangji). In those eyes, light as cat’s eye chrysoberyl, he saw his own near-hideous reflection.

This is how he truly feels - not just about himself (my boy literally has to carry a fake persona and be so strong and so alone for YEARS) but also how he perceives Lan Wangji's attitude towards him, and it stings him, but luckily he has more things to do than worry about how Lan Zhan feels about him.

YiLing Laozu

1. A ray of hope, separation and acceptance: Few weeks in the Burial Mounds has matured Wei Wuxian. He is naturally someone who works better when there is a goal, when there are people depending onto him. He has made his decision to walk his chosen path to its bitter end. Far away from the public's eyes, with his fear of being hated and ostracized, realized, now it is like he has little to lose, so he tries to make the best of it. When Lan Zhan visits YiLing, Wei Wuxian doesn't throw any curveballs to him. He doesn't ask too much, doesn't hope for anything, doesn't play around. Just enjoys some company time with him. Even when Lan Zhan brings up their persistent issues and pushes back them into the sphere of reality, Wei Wuxian deflects and only then shows some of his frustration. Yet, when Lan Zhan leaves, he chases after him to bid him goodbye. He tells him of his chosen path, asks him to form his own opinions about things, shows some trust in his integrity. They eventually go their own ways, the mood sombre. This time Wei Wuxian accepts that they aren't meant to be friends, but does say that they aren't enemies. Just people meant to walk separate paths. Thus, his feelings are no longer useful to him. They can't lead towards anything. He accepts it.

2. Extreme, Extreme Hurt: Acceptance doesn't mean it does not hurt. Just how long has Wei Wuxian suppressed his feelings? Just how long has he swallowed every hurt, every rejection? Just how many times has he called out first? Just how many times had he waited? When Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji stand on different sides in Nightless City with their weapons pointed at each other, Wei Wuxian finally "terms" Lan Wangji's attitude towards him: I knew from the start that we would have a real fight like this one, sooner or later. You've always found me disagreeable, no matter what.

"Wei WuXian had already lost his judgement. He was already half-mad, half-unconscious. All evil was being augmented by him. He felt that everyone loathed him and he loathed everyone as well. He wouldn’t be scared no matter who came at him. It wouldn’t matter no matter who came at him. It was all the same anyway."

He'd been scared, vulnerable and weak for so long, masking it with a layer of arrogance and humor. Yet now he simply can't do it any longer and his fears spill out, the darker thoughts he'd suppressed. He's like a child crying, saying it won't matter whatever his feelings were, he'd hurt them all. He was done of being hurt and scared, of hiding, of being treated like the problem. Note, that he has always wanted to be Lan Wangji's friend, always stated that they weren't enemies even when everyone around him laughed at his audacity. Now, he is done harboring hopes. He is ready to spill out all those things he's been holding back, all the fears he held.

Yet later, Lan Wangji is the one who helps him, hides him away, talks to him softly. If any part of Wei Wuxian was conscious, he'd have felt utter and complete exhaustion. "Get lost." As in, he is done. He doesn't wish for Lan Wangji to owe anything to him. He doesn't wish to change his perspectives once again. He has lost all hope, all will. He doesn't want to deal with it anymore. He can't leave by himself, he can't pretend otherwise, he can't make excuses, he can't hide in the face of Lan Wangji's action - so he can only drive him away.

Conclusion

If Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji ever had a few years of peace after they hit the age of eighteen, they would've figured their feelings out. Yet, everytime something is about to come out of their relationship, Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji go through a major ordeal that pushes them back to base zero. In their first life, their relationship ends on a tragedy.

Lan Wangji's full-grown tree of his feelings doesn't get to provide Wei Ying with its shade, left forever alone until the tree eventually dies. Meanwhile, Wei Ying's sprouts never get the water it needs to grow spontaneously.

One can't fall in love as deeply as Wei Ying is with Lan Zhan after his revival in just three months. Thus, I hope this post made it easier to see just how deep his feelings ran. I will write a follow-up post about his attitude towards Lan Zhan in his second life!

Do let me know your thoughts as well.

#mdzs #mdzs novel #my meta #my thoughts #mdzs meta #my essays #wangxian #lan wangji #wei wuxian #lan zhan #wei ying #mo dao zu shi