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richardsthirdnipple · 11 months

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The Avoidance of Context, Media Literacy, and sometimes logical thinking when it comes to Daemon and Nettles (and whatever relationship they had).

So this post is in reaction to a lot of things I've personally seen across different platforms when it comes to the established Context of the relationship between Daemon and Nettles.

A note to say is that a lot of this context paints a picture that they were lovers. It's not my preferred theory, but I rather this than the entire idea that we should downplay their relationship because at least this doesn't discredit their agency in the story.

Now, to start, there are three separate ways in which the fans discredit their relationship that I've seen

"The wrong context"

"That's morally wrong"

"Not for these characters"

Now I'll explain them further but it is important to realise that these ideas overlap with each other usually to come to a strange conclusion. From dismissing the impact Nettles had on Daemon to trivializing the sources all at the expense of not allowing these characters to exist in the story.

1. The Wrong Context.

This one comes up most often with the things they did together.

They ate together, from morning to night, slept in adjoining bed chambers, made her gifts, taught her the courtesies of court, bathing with her, 'both of them as naked as their Namedays', shaping her back and washing her hair.

I see too many people say that these things happen in the wrong context.

When it comes to the baths, they had to take the baths together like Jaime and Brienne in Harrenhall, or that they wanted to save the time the maids spend on their baths.

If this was the case, Daemon had no reason to touch her, and the maids wouldn't need to gossip because it would be expected that they did these things together, naked.

Instead, it turns into gossip, suggesting that that's not what is supposed to happen. They are going out of their way to be near each other in this capacity. Also, the maids would scrub her back or wash her hair. That's what they do. That's their role in that. Daemon instead takes over and does it instead.

Lord Mooton is entirely too proud not to find a separate bath for them if it was an inconvenience or hire extra maids to see that it would be done, but that's not what happens.

It is an established custom in their world that maids bath the women.

They supped together he taught her common courtesy.

This one is used to show that she needed help in those baths, but one thing we should recognize is that she's 16 and there are maids around. She's done this for sixteen years by herself allegedly, according to Mushroom, and again, the maids help with baths.

But when it comes to the common courtesy of Westeros, why would Nettles, a street urchin raised on Driftmark, need to know about it before this before she claims a dragon.

It clearly wasn't useful information and there was no expectation for her to learn it, so she didn't learn it. Now, when they return, she will have to start to assimilate into court life, so with all the time they have together, Daemon starts to teach her these things.

It's worth noting that it's how to dress and sit, and comb her hair appropriately. She knows how to do all these things beforehand, just not to the standard that is expected from a lady.

He also just isn't spending time away from her, but we'll circle back to this later.

Now on to the gifts.

A lot of people say that these gifts were just practical things she had to get akin to what he gave to the gold cloaks, but I disagree witht hat reading

Daemon equipped them with these thing because of his ego. He wanted them to show the power he had. So that they may wear these things, especially their Gold Cloaks with pride, and that they would be uniformed.

The closer parallel to draw with him and Nettles would be what he gave Rhaenyra. This isn't me drawing false equivalents either.

The way they spend their time together, the things he has made for her, the way they are found talking softly to each other and the fact that they spend a lot of their time flying to no end in Maidenpool, parallels his relationship to Rhaenyra.

Lastly, the adjoining rooms.

Typically, this wouldn't happen. They would have rooms near the other, or if we were to go off status, Daemon would have a bigger room on one side of the castle, and Nettles would have a smaller room still better than one the servants have but not fit for a prince. They instead have a room connected to the other, something worth noting as to how close Daemon keeps her at all times.

The wrong context also plays into this idea many people have when they talk about Nettles specifically.

For starters, she's an adult who grew up alone in Spice town and Hull. She's a very capable and smart girl seen in the way she tames Sheepstealer. She is also fearless and seemingly emotionally competent (grieving Jace and the war she just went through, crying while leaving Daemon) and literate (it isn't written that she wasn't and Daemon doesn't teach her).

She manages all these things while being alone for her entire life. So, the infantalization of her characters is clearly just an out of context reading. She isn't Brienne or Arya or Sansa, or even Jeyne Poole. She is by herself and has to understand the way the world works from very young to survive in it.

So, to parallel her with these girls purely because of her age denies who her character is explained to be.

All this to say, the reading of their relationship is a lot more equal than you would expect.

For one, she is, again, an adult when they first meet and a pretty interesting one at that.

But more importantly, in Maidenpool, they are both guests, and any of the inequalities they would typically have in King's Landing or any other place are avoided by Daemon. They share close quarters and do everything together. Whatever she needs, he makes sure she gets it. Whether intentional or not, Daemon's actions make them as close to equals as they can be in Maidenpool.

"When the girl asked what was in the letter, he said, 'A Queen's words, a Whore's work." Then he drew his sword and asked if Lord Mooton's men were waiting to take them captive."

That's not what the decree said. Mind you.

It said that Nettles had to be killed in her sleep and that Daemon was to return to Rhaenyra. A clearly different emotion captures Daemon and Nettles asks him what's wrong.

Had it been any other person, they couldn't ask that because, again, that's not her station. She has holds to nothing and more than that, Daemon would've killed them at Rhaenyra's words, whether he believed it was her or not, if for nothing to prove his loyalty.

The other time is just before this when Lord Mooton is discussing it with the men. "The Prince is more than fond of this brown child, and his Dragon is close at hand. A wise lord would kill them both, lest the prince burn Maidenpool in his wroth."

Now, when we read the more than fond line, that's a lot of evidence to suggest they were sexual and / or romantic. I kid you not. I did a whole Rhaelaena post as to why and where that phrase is used to describe those types of relationships.

But more importantly, the brother of Lord Mooton says that a wise lord would kill them both. Killing a Targaryen prince, the consort to the ruler of the seven realms along with the street urchin would be easier than following the Queen's commands at this point with their relationship.

Because of who Daemon is and the way he treats her, as an equal in Maidenpool, it creates a dynamic where it would be easier to kill them both and disobey the Queen that dealing with him in the wake of her death. That means they can't simply kill her.

That quote also implies what all this has been about, the fact that his relationship with her is weird. It's weird for him to treat her this way, from the baths to the gifts to the question of her life being a bigger conversation than just kill the treasonous bastard who spells bind Daemon to her side. Because of Daemon and his proximity and closeness to her, her life is a question worth asking past guest right.

2. That's morally wrong.

This comes into play because Daemon is almost 50, and Nettles again is 16. So, at the risk of sounding like a weirdo, because of context and the world we are in, it's not that serious.

Again, if this storyline took place in King's Landing or Dragonstone, it would be a lot worse. They would be existing and operating within the systems of Westeros. Where she is next to nothing sans being a dragonrider, and he is the prince consort of Westeros. They would have to operate in that dynamic, and it becomes a lot less sweet and a lot more power imbalance.

Another point to make is that Daemon knew both Laena and Rhaenyra from conception. If you want to do further, he knew them when they were separate cells from their mothers and fathers.

So I don't think you care about him coupling up with an adult. I think you don't like that it comes at the cost of his relationship with Rhaenyra and are miscontextualising their dynamic because of it.

Morality has also come into play when I say Daemon's best / morally good decision comes at the expense of everyone, but Nettles.

Him sending her away and his immediate choice to go fight Aemond and Vhagar by himself are simultaneously his best and most selfish choice back to back.

Not letting Nettles fight and risk her life for a person who wants her dead and letting her go away from the political landscape of Westeros is the kindest thing he does for someone he isn't related to.

However, his decision to go fight Vhagar comes at the cost of his children's safety, Rhaenyra's safety, stability and life, and the allegiance of House Mooton. It comes at the cost of him being in their life, and he knows it. But in his own words, when Aemond says, "You have lived too long nuncle." He says,

"On that much we agree."

I also want to acknowledge that if Daemon and Nettles had cornered him, they couldn't chit chat.

On to another aspect contaminated with a wrongful play of morality.

To the people who deny that they were close and important to each other at this time, how do you come to this conclusion.

Because from what the text describes, they are the only person the other can relate to in Maidenpool. There are no other Dragonriders, no one else hunting a mass murderer day after day, assuming that everything they hop on their dragons it would be their last.

Who else would take the time out of their day to teach Nettles these little courtesies or dress her accordingly? Who else would they be able to bond with away from their family and peers respectively?

With the monotony of their day, who could they talk to about without it being an issue after a while, who else would understand?

Another thing is that Nettles lost Jace and her home after the Battle of the Gullet. She killed innocent people and was clearly affected by one or all of these things. Do you not think Daemon, who just lost 4 of his children, would be comforting and understanding and that she could be the same towards him? Especially at a time when Rhaenyra just can't be.

There is a basis for their relationship.

3. Not for these characters.

This is a term for the generalization of Nettles and her reactions in the story.

Why would Nettles risk herself and betray Rhaenyra?

She isn't risking much. What place does she have when she returns? She can't betray someone who doesn't hold up their part of the agreement. Ulf and Hugh betray her, Nettles isn't given the opportunity to do the same.

Another thing is the part where she's characterized as being fearless and clearly has a basis to think Daemon wouldn't let anything happen to her.

Daemon wouldn't betray Rhaenyra.

Let's be serious for a second, and I'll give you a different interpretation for both book and show Daemon.

Book: He's actively stepping outside of their marriage with Mysaria. He returns to a wife who's isolated herself in her grief and sends him away with an interesting person. He gets close to her in the same way he did with Rhaenyra, and their relationship escalated because they have human emotions.

Show: Daemon reacts very badly when grieving, like Rhaenyra. So he's away and loses two more kids and returns to a wife who's just trying her best and can't juggle him alongside ruling a kingdom with a lot of things wrong. She sends him away with this person, and again, he gets close to her because of it.

Then, when her life is put in danger, he prioritizes her and sends her away. He could return to Rhaenyra's side but decides he's tired and doesn't want to. So instead, he goes on his suicide mission and at least takes Aemond out with him.

It also was established previously that taking on Vhagar alone was a suicide mission when Lord Mooton asked if it would be better for them to fly separately.

Is it a betrayal if he doesn't want to live?

Yes, absolutely, it's an incredibly selfish decision he comes to without care of regard for his family. But that's not on Nettles or their relationship. She wasn't in the story for two weeks when he could have changed his mind and didn't.

When it comes to the time they have, he isn't spending any of it away from her. There isn't a recorded conversation with him throughout the entire time more important than him at her side. Literally, the conversation we get is him saying they can't fight Vhagar by themselves so they can't split up.

Keep in mind that this is during a war. Every action they make from eating, to sleeping, bathing, and flying are all spent by each other's side day after day.

Overall, it's within the context that these things happen at notably tumultuous times for both of them that this relationship occurs. It's at a time when they are apart from anyone else who can relate to them.

I would like to note that they would more than likely still be close if they didn't go to Maidenpool. It would just have a lot more implications for their relationship and their power imbalance.

He dies for Rhaenyra.

I don't know why this is the hill many people choose to die on, but nothing he does indicated this.

He holds a maester to a sword when Nettles is put in danger by Rhaenyra’s decree.

He actively ignores Rhaenyra’s decree.

He lets Nettles go, betraying Rhaenyra.

At any point in time after letting Nettles go, he could have gone back to Rhaenyra and doesn't.

Instead of saying that's he's proving himself or that he's putting an end to Aemond for the realm, he says he's lived too long, acknowledging the suicide mission he's on.

Nothing he does in that moment is something he acknowledges doing for Rhaenyra or her Reign. He goes out of his way to defy her last words he hears.

Taking Aemond out is a good thing, but it's certainly not her priority at that point, and again, it comes at the cost of the thing she needs at that moment. Him at her side. The battle above the God's eye could be rescheduled for a later date, I assure you.

With all this said, I hope we apply nuance to this discussion instead of isolating these character fron who they are said to be. It's strange having to defend these characters because people refuse to contextualise them in the narrative we are given.

Something else to bring up is Rhaenyra when it comes to all of this.

She actively decides not to give Nettles anything and when she is presented with the possibility that Nettles may be sleeping with Daemon. Rather than saying, that's treason, kill her and tell Daemon to return.

She discredits Nettles and her relationship to Sheepstealer. She denies Daemon's consensual part in this and actively chooses to say that it's with spells she accomplished, binding herself to her dragon and sleeping with Daemon.

Then she goes on to calling her a low creature, clearly racially charged language when it comes to the only woman of colour in the story.

It's an incredible display of the historical demonization of Bipoc women and emancipation of white men from their autonomy when it comes to such exotic women.

I've come across a number of people who do not view media with media literacy. They can point to which scene in the show may reference a medieval portrait, but when it comes to understanding the parallel, the American author may be drawing between Rhaenyra and Nettles and BIPOC women specifically Black and Indigenous women in the United States and White Women, and the way they would rather blame young colored girls than hold their white husband's accountable is strange. Especially when in both cases they can't blame their husbands.

So I'll leave some articles about it.

https://bjornblomquist.medium.com/the-epidemic-of-violence-against-indigenous-women-5905f195f95e

Now I'll say it is not an exact parallel. However, the fact that the parallel can be drawn with that basis shouldn't be overlooked.

It isn't supposed to be frames as a sexually exploitative relationship. It's specifically Rhaenyra’s words that conjure the image and parallel.

I also want to address the incoming sexist comments I'll receive from this.

This doesn't happen because Rhaenyra isn't a good wife . It doesn't happen because Nettles is some manic pixie worth changing for.

We actually don't entirely know why it happens. But it does, and trying to contextualise it with the characters we are given and see operating in the narrative at this time isn't me condemning one and praising the other.

Rhaenyra, despite being really racist and classist, doesn't deserve what Daemon does to her.

And Nettles, being such an amazing character, deserved a lot more than what she got from Rhaenyra.

To say it's sexist that Daemon's behavior changes for the better because of Nettles does not allow for the analysis of these characters past buzz words, and is completely reductive to the points made.

To close this off, I've taken this fictional world entirely too seriously, but I would rather do that than avoid the blatant reduction and manipulation of this character for the benefit of Daemyra shippers who are upset because of war and the changes that may encourage woth their favorite characters.

This doesn't discredit your ship. Nettles doesn't change anything that happened between Daemon and Rhaenyra, like their lives together and children, for instance.

Blame Daemon for his betrayal, don't blame Nettles for doing what most people would do in her situation by making the best of it and simply leaving when she should.

#house of the dragon #hotd #a song of ice and fire #nettles #nettles asoiaf #house targaryen #netty #daemon targaryen #daemon x nettles #rhaenyra targaryen #blame daemon targaryen for his crimes 2023 #nettles deserves the world and nothing less #rhaenyra x daemon #stop being weird #leave Nettles alone if you don’t apply nuance

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