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delistravaganza · 5 months

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I swear I relate to everything you have written about the enemies to lovers trope and lesbians.

it’s not even about lesbian representation, at least in fandom, of course that’s important but it’s not the point here, it’s about having wlw stories that are as...complex? Messed up? Intricated? as straight or even (in more recent years) mlm romantic storylines are allowed to be. I feel like I am constantly hungry of complicate stories with lesbian or bisexuals female characters involved in messy relationship. But almost every popolar ship that I meet on fandom or tv shows either is watered down, made all soft and sweet and not threatening and so not complicate enough to be appealing. (or in the fews that are not like that in the original media they get made in this way by the fandom- it’s so unnerving). it seems to me that’s it is either “tragic dead lesbian” or “soft sapphic story all is sweet uwu”. As someone who love stories with romance only when the romance is very complicated and not necessarily healthy and full of ambivalent feelings (don’t judge me as you said it’s just a matter of preference ashahaha) I sometimes read slash (mlm) fanfiction on ao3 that feature very complicate and not necessarily healthy dynamics and I go damn I wish that there was a fanfiction exactly like this but with two women instead of two men.

I get this 1000%. To be fair, I don't think it's just the wlw couples being UwUified in recent films and shows, this happens to all queer representation because of the pressure to create "good rep". To some extent, it's even happening with straight pairings because people are more aware now of sexism and what it really means to consent, though everyone still seems to be willing to let this knowledge fly off if teh guy iz HOT.

But there seems to be a particular issue with writing f/f interactions that are manipulative, dark or somehow more adult, not necessarily meaning sex but rather a more nuanced portrayal of the relationship. Whereas all the straight toxic romances went to specific (and thriving) genres such as "dark romance" (which at least seems to be more self-conscious as the Reylo fic I mentioned before), and we get glorious epics of m/m fanfiction stories (and books that feel like fanfiction), it sometimes seems like the women characters are treated as little girls.

Even in a dark, creepy, cannibalistic, adult-oriented show such as Yellowjackets, I found myself more interested in the hypothetical Jackie/Shauna pairing because oh boy that was complex! than in the actual lesbian pairings involving Tai, who is a great and somewhat nuanced character except when it comes to her (sanitized) relationships. Is it really just me favoring problematic and unhealthy dynamics or is there some truth to this? (It may be me.) Is Tai a bit tamed down because she's gay AND black?

Also, to be completely fair, I think that I have more expectations when it comes to wlw plots, maybe because I subconsciously think of them as more "me" than the others. I've read a lot about how women use slash to slip away from the narrative and write more freely, and the fact is - I've read a lot of trash when it comes to m/m. And I definitely don't remember it with the resentment I save for f/f media like First Kill ("you fucking set out to be everything I wanted and turned out to be a pile of dog shit!").

I have also read extremely interesting books featuring f/f dynamics on the latest years, which I could post here instead of whining à la Louis de Pointe du Lac, but the fact is that these books already set out to be a work of literary merit and weren't written to dwell on the romance or possible romance itself. I'm not even counting MBF here as I read it a while back for the first time, but it could be an example - I don't know, but it definitely wasn't written with UwUification in mind. I'm still thrilled at how much the marketing DID and DOES UwUify our girls and their relationship. Sometimes the marketing is like: Wouldn't you just love to have such a special friendship like these two? Uhhh what? No, thank you, I had my share of that shit?!?

Oh, and also - I'm not even sure it comes down to self-identification either. I said I identify with Catradora, but the fact is I don't necessarily identify with either Catra or Adora. I just identified with their feelings, and I felt empathy for them, and I worried and I suffered and I felt frustrated and I so, so, so hungered and feared for their fights and God, you should really check this one out because it's really on the edge between UwU and dark, and I think it's this mixture what made it work in today's world. It seemed to appeal to both parts of me - the one who lowkey wants the positive, young-and-healthy-oriented rep she didn't have as a teen, and the more prevalent one who prefers angst and twisted things. And yes, it's a cartoon. A cartoon did what many real, adult-oriented shows and books couldn't do with me.

But Catradora probably also worked because we, the audience, were purposefully kept in the dark about them, so we got to experience their story as it developed and without any clear expectation as what the end would be (compared to: here's your wlw romance of the day! Ship them! Hope they don't die!), something I'm sure you wouldn't be able to achieve now that all the info is out there.

Anyway, I'm rambling now and already taking too much time off work. But I find this topic fascinating. If anyone else wants to join in the conversation or point me somewhere that isn't Buffy/Faith or Catradora or Villanelle or Nicky/Lorna (YES I STILL SHIP THEM AND WILL ALWAYS DO) or our Neapolitan toxic friends, please do. And as always, nice talking to you. <3

---

P.D.: Here's a long video analysis that I really liked that tackles why "good" LGBT representation is boring (not wlw representation exclusively).

#queer representation #my brilliant friend #yellowjackets #jackie x shauna #catradora #f/f #sapphic #first kill #wlw

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crazykuroneko · 7 months

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The Newsreader S2 Ep 6 (Finale)

A well-written, well-acted, and well-produced season. Anna and Sam showed their range. The whole cast is such a treat to see when they're all working together for a bulletin. Love how they wrote other characters/relationships to be a foil to Helen, Dale or their relationship, especially Rob/Noellene. The set and the fashion are impeccable. My only criticisms are I wish we could see more of how Charlie/Helen crash and burn in more than a montage and a scene and the score, which could have been better imo. Anyway, this should sweep AACTA idc idc

My unnecessary note on the episode under the cut

Sam is such a great actor, because we see Dale's acting like he's okay all smiley etc but you know he's breaking inside

Geoff looks sincere with his speech about Kay, but I bet it's Evelyn's idea to put that on the news. Idk I'm still sceptical about those two

GOD DALE he's really doing everything he's been dreaming of as if that would make him feel better about himself

that montage of Helen and Charlie doing drugs is insane. Especially when you remember their relationship started right after she covered a drug addict news

ugh yes Rob we know you're homophobic thanks

"He's turning into Helen" well more like Geoff

Oh fuck you Lindsey. he's the one without any principles at all and alway takes/turns anything into personal. He and Evelyn are my big villains UGH

Okay, Rob proposing her in Korean is sweet. A sign he's willing to learn

Don't forget Rob is someone who refuses his promotion even when he gets it because he's too comfortable in his place. OF COURSE he won't understand Noelene's ambition to develop her career. I'm so sorry Noelene. i wish you didn't fall in love with a loser

At least The Walters know when they have to pay back a favor

Helen really said don't talk about my bisexual almost-husband! She's so real for that. But I do wish we saw how the relationship with Charlie crashed and burnt in more than just two scenes.

"Just do your work" also "Do nothing" in the previous episode. Insanity

Poor Dale, no one can back him up. It hurts that Tim won't help him but it's very understandable after how Dale has been using him after all this time. Plus Tim is in a different relationship with his sexuality than Dale. He's not out, but he has embraced it and doesn't want to hide it anymore. Meanwhile that's impossible for Dale if he still wants a career in front of the camera with a good pay in that era. Which is why I don't see them get back together anymore. In my eyes, it's more like infatuation than love between them, with/without the internalized homophobia. And Tim does deserve to live free from all this drama

14 hours plus on the desk? it's insane. Dale is turning into a robot wtf

Dale Jennings disappointing the whole queer community. Where did that come from? Yes, season 1! Upon reflection, I don't think Gerry did it, but it's definitely someone from the gay club. Someone who saw he's dancing with Tim before. Could be that stranger he slept with. There's no way he didn't know who Dale was. Anyway, Dale feels like the community has betrayed him, so now like a naive child he's getting back at them. (He's still my baby though ❤️)

Oh Noelene was definitely going to say no even without Helen's problem. Of course she was. 💔

Could we unalive Lindsey pls? Like he's the epitome of a white man who only knows how to scream and take advantage of any situation. A lot of people's temper would be improved

Okay, maybe Rob does deserve some rights. The fact he has achieved his peak in sport really helps. I guess that's why he's so chill about his news career

I guess the only person Lindsey really appreciates is Dennis cos who would manage everyone if not him? Lindsey can only scream and scream. He'd really be nothing without Denis and Noelene

Dale has definitely been looking up to Geoff. So it's insane when Geoff, who has sacrificed his career for his daughter, is now congratulating Dale, who has sacrificed all of his relationships for his career. It's like the passing of the news desk trap

Why is it with this couple and believing marriage will just solve all your problems? No, I understand they know that they're the life raft to each other, so when they're in a dire moment, they want to make sure they'll have each other always. Forever. And it's insane. And it's so heartbreaking that the moment Helen realizes that Dale has always been fully committed to her and fully supported her is the moment Dale got a confirmation that he really has It to be the king of news, and he won't sacrifice that. Not right now when he's finally had it in his hand

You know, when you think about it, Dale's rejection protects Helen's principle. Because here she's about to use their potential engagement to placate the gossip writer to not publish Dale's story, which would lead to them having to feed her stories on their relationship forever. Which Helen has said before that her private life is not something she would trade. In the end, Donna only gets Dale's life.

It's insane how this episode starts just like Ep 1 and ends just like how season 1 ends.

Also, this is very unnecessary, but please know I worship Sam's and Anna's acting. They're insane throughout this season.

#the newsreader #the Newsreader spoilers

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euphoniouspandemonium · 2 years

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Now I'm quite curious about Leslie, Percy, and Florence (yes I do know more about Percy than I do about Leslie and Florence, but there's no such thing as "knowing too much about Percy")

Oh yes. Ohohoho yes. Thank you for asking and you are so right, there's no such thing as knowing too much about Percy, like I still feel like I don't know enough about Percy and I'm the author who has three (3) WIPs with him in it, one of which is almost a sort of biography, and is incapable of thinking about anything else.

Okay okay so! Leslie first, because I am currently having a lot of brainrot:

Leslie is a character in Clarity Is Blood On A Murder Weapon and I want to hit them with a brick. Affectionately. They suck but it's okay because I love them and I think they're hot.

Also they are my pronouns buddy (they use they/he/she as well, though I'll be using they/them for this ramble for the sake of clarity) <3

The rest is under the cut!

You see, they were raised in a very "queer people gross only Feminine Woman In Kitchen and Manly Macho Man Dude Bro" because it was mid 20th century America so what can you expect. That was, of course, a problem, cause they're nonbinary and bisexual. So of course they left once they turned like 19. Also they have a younger sister - Roq - who got kicked out for being gay like a year later (when she was 17 oop) but that's another story. They did take her in, of course.

After they left, they met Kevin and Stephen and then a while later Roq started living with Leslie so The Friend Group was created. Stephen in the early days of their friendship was recovering from Very Bad Terrible trauma and later on a few other peeps were abducted into this friendship, but that is probably a story for another day.

Anyways! That's enough for their backstory! Tis time for... *drumroll* ... their personality! And such!

As I said, they suck (affectionate). They're a selfish dumbass honestly, and they just kinda act like they don't give a fuck about anyone's feelings but they absolutely do and they want the people they care about (*cough* their friends and their little sister and their boyfriend *cough*) to be safe and well and happy. But most importantly they always wear heart shaped sunglasses and of course in the scene where they are most vulnerable they are not in fact wearing said sunglasses. In fact they are broken. Do with that what you will.

But other than being a fool and an asshole they are an absolute darling of a person. They get so so hype every time their friends or partners get happy, ESPECIALLY if they're the one that made them happy. They are obsessed with everything heart-shaped. They know all of their friends' favourite songs. They're still a piece of shit but. A darling piece of shit <3

Also they fuck around with gender A Lot <3 because they can <3 and honestly they are really fucking gender in literally anything, ranging from dresses to shirts with giant sleeves to ridiculous pattern combos, like oh lord the gender envy. Also did I mention they're hot. And pretty. Actually I have a drawing of them, if you'd like to see.

And now! Florence!:

She's from the Earl/Edith WIP and honestly she could kill me and I'd thank her. I haven't developed her much yet, but all you need to know is that she says "Well, well, well. I have found a pretty little thief in my room" at one point. She has a really ethereal vibe and it seems like she draws moths and butterflies towards her~ and Edith is but a foolish little moth~ oh and I am implying some romantic emotions between Florence and Edith cause like. She was literally in a polycule with Edith and their husband Jonathan but then Something Happened. Don't even ask me what the something is because I don't know either. Also Florence is the antagonist's sister. Oh oh and she has two borzoi dogs, Frankie and Lola <3

And since I have talked about Percy A Lot I will make this a lil list of fun facts:

- named himself after Percy Shelley

- has watched Different From The Others - aka what is probably the first pro-gay film ever - in a cinema in Berlin in 1919. Makes me wish I was him.

- knows oh so many languages

- loves warm milk. It makes him feel very safe and comfy

- he falls asleep EVERYWHERE including but not limited to sofas, chairs, the ground, Oscar's lap, beds, tables, meadows, trains etc, and if you try to move him he just makes sad pathetic little noises and continues sleeping.

- has a birthmark near his nose

- he never lives in one place for too long but he always leaves something that will forever puzzle and haunt the person who's gonna live there next. Small boxes filled with weird old objects, like vintage pictures, teeth, children's toys. He can in fact be a bit of an odd boy sometimes. I would sell my soul to find such a box by the way.

#asks #percy #leslie #florence #this is very long. something about how i apologize for what you have unleashed.

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steeklover · 1 year

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stan and tweek for the ask game! :3

Stan

sexuality headcanon: bisexual. i also like to think about non-binary stan but i default to cisgender stan most of the time

otp: everyone who knows me already knows the answer to this because i won't shut up about them but of course it's steek! besides steek i really like stenny, stolkien and stutters.

brotp: style, stenny, stanman, stendy and whatever stan & bebe is

notp: i know this a very hot take but i just don't vibe with style as lovers. also i don't like stanman romantically either. same thing with staig

first headcanon that pops into my head: animal lover stan!! i just want to see him hanging out with a bunch of cats and dogs. i think it would make him happy.

favorite line from this character:

I can't think of anything off the top of my head but everything he said in Assburgers was a 10 to me. From that scene with Mr. Mackey which was heartbreaking to his scene with Kyle which was hilarious.

one way in which I relate to this character:

i'm more introverted ig. like i don't know if that's a popular opinion or not but stan is introverted in my opinion and so am i

thing that gives me second hand embarrassment about this character: oh stanley, there are so many things that stan does that gives me second hand embarassment. when he told kyle he loved him when he was drunk, when he rubbed his ass on the ground for some social media trend, DEEP LEARNING, he's just very embarrassing

cinnamon roll or problematic fave?: of course he's problematic, most of the kids are in at least one way but for the most part he's a cinnamon roll in my opinion

Tweek

sexuality headcanon: gay. i also really like asexual tweek

otp: once again, steek!! omg i love that ship so much. i also really like twason, twenny, cartweek, twyde, twete and creek. i like pretty much ALL tweek ships though.

brotp: twason (tweek & jason)!! people don't recognize that enough. like not to complain but i always see tweek being this friendless loser when jason is literally RIGHT there. like i get why people do that but sometimes i just want to see something different. another thing is they make jason a bully yet they don't make them friends?? i just don't get it. i could go on a rant about twason but i also like twebe and twendy. also cartweek, twenny and twyle. also stutters. sorry i'm done now

notp: i don't have one. like i'm not CRAZY about creek, atleast not like how i used to be when i first joined the fandom but i don't hate it, it's just because i like other tweek ships better. i guess shipping him with any girls is weird to me because he's gay but i don't see that alot

first headcanon that pops into my head: i already answered this in another ask but tweek is a very artistic kid imo.

favorite line from this character: omg that's so hard!! like i love everything tweek's ever said, I think he should say so much more but i'll settle with this:

youtube

I could make this my ringtone if I would.

7. one way in which I relate to this character

i have anxiety ig, like mine is more social while tweek's is more generalized

8. thing that gives me second hand embarrassment about this character

nothing, tweek is perfect, he never goes anything embrassasing

9: cinnamon roll or problematic fave?

like i said above tweek is perfect and has never done anything wrong. of course he is a cinnamon roll, he is THE cinnamon roll!!

ALSO I DID NOT MEAN TO POST THAT EARLIER ON YET!! I WASN'T DONE SORRY!!

Thank you for asking me about my two favorite boys, I could literally talk about them all day!! 😂😂

#south park #south park asks #stan marsh #sp stan #tweek tweak #sp tweek #asks #thank you for the asks!!

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superangsty · 3 years

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Hugh Grant + gay characters

Maurice (1987)//Rowing With The Wind (1988)//Our Sons (1991)//An Awfully Big Adventure (1995)//Paddington 2 (2017)//A Very English Scandal (2018)//The Gentlemen (2019)

#hugh grant will see a gay role and be like so is nobody gonna take this #yes two of these films they never actually MENTION him being into men but in one of them he is literally lord byron #hugh grant #maurice 1987 #ooh the pain of having to choose just one film to tag bc i didnt leave enough tags in the 5 that get read #anyway. i wanna do one of these where its his characters that arent gay but like. ARE gay #my gifs #sidenote dont watch rowing with the wind its shit #Oh also two of these characters are of course bisexual. I'm using gay as an umbrella term so please don't @ me

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writer-monster · 3 years

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11 reasons why cap 4 should reintroduce Bucky Barnes as the love interest, an essay

to start this off, i am not writing this essay from a shipping place nor do i believe that this would have any influence at all over the upcoming movie. i expect nothing. this is simply something that i would personally like to see. (of course no hate to anybody who thinks differently)

here are 11 reasons why i think making Bucky into Sam Wilson's love interest in Cap 4 would be a good move for Disney.

1. on the Chinese film market - and why it's an irrelevant argument against the inclusion of homosexual themes in Cap 4

the Chinese film market is something that has been blamed for a lack of diversity in Hollywood films a lot lately. many people claim that this market with a lot of buying power has been responsible for the lack of gay and black representation in particular within Hollywood films.

and we have certainly seen Hollywood treating it as such, going so far as to cut gay scenes from movies for their Chinese releases, and vastly minimising John Boyega's (a black actor's) presence in the Chinese poster of Star Wars The Force Awakens.

[image ID: on the left is an image of the American poster for Star Wars The Force Awakens, featuring John Boyega prominently on the right-hand side. And on the right is the Chinese poster for the same movie, in which John Boyega is barely visible.]

so we know at the very least that Disney believes this through their own actions and efforts to self-censor for the different markets.

but Captain America 4 is a black-led movie, don't you forget. and Disney can't minimise Sam Wilson/Anthony Mackie in the movie or the poster because it's his movie and his poster. and no amount of creativity in the editing room can change that (thank God!).

so if by their own argument the film is already going to be either banned, panned or slammed in China... then what do they have to fear from making it a gay movie too?

2. oh, the queerbaiting

queerbaiting is an unusual cultural idea. and sometimes i find myself thinking that the term is far too easily used, but then all of a sudden i will stumble upon a movie or show that is so quintessentially cruel and overt in it's... well... queerbaiting that i will start to wonder what the hell kind of a bizarre relationship all these straight people seem to have with their friends. take Troy and Abed from Community or John and Sherlock from Sherlock as the perfect examples of this. (in which my reaction to the show's creators saying the show wasn't gay was to ask so then why did you make it so gay?!)

i felt that Sam Wilson and Bucky Barnes in tfatws were getting quite close to this level of queerbaiting.

there was the field scene, the couple's counselling scene, the boat scene, the couple's counselling scene, Bucky going with Sam to face Karli when she told Sam to come alone, the couple's counselling scene, ALL the staring scenes, Sam checking out Bucky's ass here as they said goodbye, the "i would move in with him but" hidden scene, "Uncle Bucky" showing up at the cookout scene, the romantic walking off together into the sunset together ending scene, and the couple's counselling scene. did i forget anything? but i mean seriously, the couple's counselling scene!!! that thing they did with their legs and their crotches while staring deep into each other's eyes, would any straight guy willingly do that? do straight guys crotch-snuggle now?

[image ID: an image of Sam Wilson and Bucky Barnes during the therapy scene with the quote, "Isn't anybody going to drag me into impromptu couple's therapy and slot my legs firmly between theirs before staring deeply into my eyes?"]

(yeah i stole this image from a buzzfeed article on the fan reactions to the couple's therapy scene. but given that they stole 80% of the content of that article from fandom tumblr, i think it's pretty even-steven.)

there's also the fact that people started talking about bisexual Bucky Barnes a lot after the tiger pictures line, and the lead writer Malcom Spellman responded to the talk of Bucky's bisexuality with "just keep watching". well we watched, Malcolm. but it's beginning to feel like you were just jerking us around.

3. the writing

seriously though, what else is Bucky Barnes doing right now in the MCU? his only remaining connection to anything going on right now is through Sam. there is literally nothing else established that's left for him to do that doesn't involve Sam. he moved to Louisiana to be closer to Sam (canonically), he hangs out with Sam's family (canonically), and Steve is presumably gone and is definitely not coming back for more adventures.

he has no villains or loose ends left. he has no other superheroes that he appears to be in contact with. he has no girlfriend or potential love interest, or even other friends or family. he is living in a tent that he has secretly set up in Sam's backyard and is mysteriously appearing from the bushes when it's time for dinner like a stray cat.

in my opinion there is no other meaningful and pre-established progression for Bucky's character that wouldn't just feel cheap.

plus, i don't think the general audience would be all that surprised if they kissed. i think a LOT of people picked up on all that tension. i think a lot of straight people picked up on all that tension too.

4. the chemistry between the actors & the chemistry between the characters

the original pitch for tfatws was essentially just this, it was the chemistry between Sebastian Stan and Anthony Mackie and their respective MCU characters of Bucky Barnes and Sam Wilson.

now obviously Anthony and Sebastian are simply friends, and i wouldn't mean to imply anything more. but they are also not their characters.

Sam and Bucky's scenes together before tfatws were both limited and short, and yet audiences still fell in love with the dynamic between the two characters.

in interviews, these two actors are constantly slipping into character and flirting with each other and frankly it's adorable. plus it's really entertaining. i'd love to see that dynamic, unfiltered, in a movie.

because believe it or not the flirting is actually even more open in their interviews than it was in tfatws. and i'm leaving some links as proof.

this here is known as the "married" compilation

and here's a "lucky dip" selection of interviews - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,

and here's Anthony trying to get Seb to take his jacket off.

i'm just saying, why not let their chemistry shine? these two are so talented and so entertaining, especially when you put them in a room together. and can you imagine how absolutely hilarious and brilliant it would be to watch them navigate being a couple?

(and for those who bring up the "friends would be uncomfortable pretending to be dating" argument, i'm not here asking for a sex scene or anything. i don't think anyone would expect them to show any more intimacy (physical or emotional) while playing a couple than what they've already shown together in say... tfatws or in their own interviews. not that i actually expect anything regardless.)

5. if they were a man and a woman they would've gotten together in tfatws

i have no more to add here. just that... yeah, they would've.

6. and i'm not talking about the comics here, i'm talking about the MCU.

i understand fully that none of what i'm saying here falls in line with these characters from the comics. but the mcu itself doesn't fall much in line with the comics either, and these two characters especially are very different from their comics counterparts.

i'm not asking for these two to get together in the comics. tbh i don't think that it would work.

but the mcu Sam and Bucky are different and closer than their comics counterparts. they've got different histories, different backstories, and a very different dynamic. please rest assured that i am only talking about them in the mcu.

7. Bucky Barnes is believably bisexual. and Sam Wilson has never been proven to be straight in the mcu, nor has he had a love interest.

(now please continue to keep in mind that these points only stand for the mcu versions of Bucky Barnes and Sam Wilson, and not at all for their comics counterparts.)

Sam Wilson has never had a love interest, which is crazy because have you seen that man! he has had two blink and you'll miss it moments of verbal expression of attraction to women, both in TWS. and that's the extent of it, through his entire history in the mcu.

Bucky Barnes has had a number of surface-level female love interests, but none of them even came close to the level of connection and chemistry that Bucky shares with Sam.

and i'm sorry SarahBucky fans, but i just don't think there's very much to their relationship either. i love Sarah, i really do. but it's Sam who shares all the meaningful moments and history and chemistry with Bucky. and i don't see what making her into a love interest would do for Sarah's character either, what would that add to her story?

[Picture ID: Bucky at the cookout with Sam, Sarah, Cass and AJ. Bucky and Sam are looking at each other and smiling.]

and also there is the whole tiger pictures thing... again. which does strongly suggest that Bucky is bisexual whether this was intentional on behalf of the writers or not.

8. it's representation... AND it feels natural

marvel hasn't had a lot of queer representation that's been noticeably present in the MCU at the time of writing this.

there have been a lot of failures so far, from the bisexual erasure of Valkyrie in Thor Ragnarok to the wlw erasure in Black Panther.

there was queerbaiting almost identical to the bisexual Bucky baiting for Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2. when asked if he had considered featuring a gay hero in gotg2, director James Gunn stated that "We might have already done that. I say, watch the movie." after the movie's release audiences were understandably confused about the lack of queer representation. To which the director followed up his comments with, "But we don't really know who's gay and who's not. It could be any of them."

there is also Loki, considered by most fans after the airing of his six episode series on Disney+ to be both a poor attempt at both genderfluid representation and bisexual representation. with both attempts being summed up fairly well by the term "blink-and-you'll-miss-it". (also it's just terribly written and Loki doesn't wear any interesting clothes! fanficcers are a Goddamn blessing in this hard time!)

and let us not forget that Andrew Garfield was apparently FIRED for pushing for a bisexual spiderman. a bisexual spiderman within an interracial mlm relationship no less.

so for all these failures, marvel, why not allow us queer fans this? two brilliant and heroic men in a loving interracial relationship. two heroes that we can look up to.

now, one of the biggest detractions from the argument for representation is the idea of "forced diversity". and some poorly written characters certainly do end up feeling forced into the narrative. take Iceman in the comics for example, with Jean Grey just straight up suddenly telling him he's gay. like, marvel, sweetie, that's not how this works! and i don't know a lot of queer people who thought much of that "representation".

but the crux of the "forced diversity" argument is almost always that it feels unnatural within the story, right? and i don't think that anyone could say that about MCU Sam and Bucky ending up together, given these characters' existing chemistry and their history. they've both played characters in gay relationships before so we know that it's not outside of either actor's wheelhouse. and y'all know that Anthony and Seb can act, people. if it's in the script i believe that they'll make it seem like the most natural thing on earth.

9. it'd be a nice change

there's been an ongoing meme lately about "Disney's first gay character", the joke being that they continually announce gay characters without really ever including gay characters in their films.

this is to the point where Disney has formed a reputation amongst queer audiences of being homophobic.

if Sam and Bucky were to become a couple, then Disney could have its first actual gay character within a gay relationship. AND have him be in the lead of his own movie, no less.

it's also worth keeping in mind that there's likely an overlap between the people who were outraged by a Sam Wilson Captain America, and the people who'd be outraged by a gay Captain America. and if they were already not seeing the film, then i don't think much is gonna change that.

queer audiences would definitely love it, and the media attention would be guaranteed to be huge. i mean, simply look at the amount of media attention mere rumours of a character's queerness gets you and multiply that by a canon confirmation of said rumours.

but i'm pretty sure that Disney already knows this.

10. and yet, in truth, it's not about the representation

in truth i've never felt that i had any trouble relating to characters of any sexual orientation, race, gender, sex, body type, etc. (although that is not to throw any shade at all on people who do wish to see themselves represented) but for me, i think it's more about the story than the packaging.

and yet, a love story is still just a story. straight or queer, monoethnic or interracial. when two characters have chemistry and history and have sacrificed for each other time and time again, and they also can't keep their hands or their eyes off each other, then i'm pretty sure that that's a love story.

straight or queer, monoethnic or interracial, it shouldn't be about these simple labels. it should be about how well written the relationship is. it should be about chemistry, and history, and sacrifice.

because i'm fucking sick of all the hollow, forced romances in media no matter the genders of the participants. i'm sick of lazily written, shallow relationships where any two people sharing the same space for any extended period of time will simply fall in love. it's boring, it's repetitive, and as a writer myself it drives me up the wall!

romance stories suck! and everyone knows that romance stories suck. between twilight, and most of the entire YA genre, and love triangles (so boring), and romance used as poorly-written throwaway subplots in Hollywood movies, the world is in agreement that the romance in western media is simply dreadful. and yet we still want love stories. it's an entire genre that sits at the heart of the human experience (<3), and yet one which so few of today's best known writers seem truly able to capture.

i don't think that i'm the only one who feels this way, either. i suspect it's actually a large part of why fandom is so romance-centred in the first place, that we're all just starving for a good love story.

(btw i think fandom has a reputation for being something that as a whole that it is not. it has this reputation for straight up demanding things and harassing people until they get their way. while unfortunately there are a few people who do this, they're fucking annoying and i swear that they're far from the majority.

in my experience fandom is mostly about writing a five thousand word story at three am while drunk off your ass because it might make someone whom you've never met smile, editing it in the cold light of day, and then posting it. expecting nothing. sometimes getting nothing. and sometimes getting someone send you kudos or a comment so heartbreakingly wonderful that it makes you smile in return.)

11. so once again, it is all about the writing.

i want to see Sam and Bucky get together in the mcu, not because they would be a gay couple but because i genuinely believe that their story has potential to be an amazing love story.

and i know the mcu isn't about the romance. it's why in my personal opinion we haven't gotten a lot of good canon romances besides Peter Quill and Gamora. and i don't think that the mcu should be all about the romance either. i fucking love the action and the fighting scenes. i love the comedy. Captain America: The Winter Soldier had no romance and it was a fucking treasure, it was an amazing spy-action-thriller and it made my little gay heart dance. Thor Ragnarok had no romance, and it was an utterly brilliant comedic spectacle action film. not every movie needs romance.

but mcu Sam Wilson and Bucky Barnes were doing couple's therapy and fixing a boat and walking off into the sunset together in tfatws. they were inseparable on the battlefield. they've got a dynamic. it's beautiful, it's romantic, and it's gold.

a budding relationship between them in the next movie would be a good way to explore both characters more without the narrative feeling too stilted and separate. at the end of tfatws, both Sam and Bucky fans found that their respective fave felt somewhat underutilised and that their characters were underexplored.

now, that problem would be even more difficult to remedy in a movie, because the plotline of a movie needs to be really tight to work (giggity). and we know that the central conflict of the movie is gonna be action-based (which is good), but we still need each character's personal journey and growth to tie into the main conflict. (which is another issue that some fans found with tfatws, that these characters didn't really feel connected to the action-based plot on a more personal level.)

if Sam and Bucky are already in a relationship, however, this whole dynamic changes. first, their relationship has already been set up for nicely since TWS and through tfatws and they would officially be the best-fleshed-out couple in the mcu. but most importantly, a relationship gives them a perfect vehicle to explore both of their pasts comparatively and connect them personally to the action-based plot.

do you want to establish that Sam is a little too trusting and naïve? then establish this through his relationship with Bucky, and through showing his placing his trust in Bucky. (rather than through having him sympathise with a villain who threatened to murder his sister and his nephews).

perhaps you want to show Bucky recovering from his trauma? show us how comfortable he is with Sam. they get along, they're enjoying each other's presence, we see more of Sam's life and of his family, and then let Bucky tell Sam something that's raw and dark and honest about his life as The Winter Soldier. something about a memory, one that he only just recalled. he's opening up. and maybe what he tells Sam is even something that sets up the future action-based conflict, to ground that in something real.

you want to explore that Sam has trauma too? do this through Bucky. he tells Bucky a story about his time in the military. in the form of a flashback, he shares his own story of loss to evoke before the audience the shared theme of feeling at fault even when you're simply a helpless bystander to an act of pure destruction.

then, action sequence! and it's directly connected to Bucky's time as the Winter Soldier. explore the grief of someone whose life the Winter Soldier tore apart manifesting into a villain perpetuating the cycle of pain. establish your villain.

Later, Sam is dragged into battle against this villain for protecting Bucky. But Bucky doesn't want Sam to protect him. He feels guilt for what he can't control and he doesn't want Sam getting hurt because of him. Bucky reminds Sam that he has a family, one who needs him and who loves him. He tells him to go home.

Sam reminds Bucky that he's a part of that family. And that sure Sam's a hero and his job is to protect anyone and everyone, but that he's doing it because he wants to. It's not simply to prove that he can, or to prove that he's not a bystander (this connects to Sam's trauma here), but that he's doing it to help people.

and this gets Bucky thinking about who he is and what he's doing here. is he a hero who stands by Sam's side? or is he an ordinary man who stands aside? or perhaps, does he stand alone? what does he stand for? Maybe Sam knows. But does Bucky?

Sam and Bucky fight off the villain again, and for the first time Bucky meets this adversary face to face. And Bucky recognises this villain, and has a flashback to the genuine pain that he inflicted upon them in the form of the Winter Soldier. Bucky freezes mid-fight, he almost dies, and Sam has to save him.

Sam chews Bucky out for almost getting killed because he was afraid for him. but Bucky takes this the wrong way and goes off to fight the villain alone, or perhaps to die alone, he's not quite sure.

He puts up a half-hearted fight. He apologises for what the Winter Soldier has done, and he waits for the killing blow, when Sam swoops down and he saves him. He asks Sam why he saved him and Sam calls him a moron. And then, Sam asks him what sacrificing himself would solve. He tells him that you can't choose your past but you can choose your future (connecting to his own experience of loss and guilt and grief). And that no matter what Bucky Barnes still has a future, whether that's as the Winter Soldier or the White Wolf or just some dork with a day job. And that he has a future as a part of Sam's family too.

Sam fights the villain, and it's toe to toe. He delivers a few good blows, but receives a fair few himself. And then the villain tears off his wings, first one and then the other, in a manner reminiscent of what the Winter Soldier did to him in TWS. Through Bucky's eyes there's a flashback to highlight the parallels. Sam gets back on his feet and he fights his best fight, but is now losing.

And then the heavily injured Bucky steps up and fights by Sam's side, and only together do they take down the villain.

"So... I inspired you, huh?" Sam teases with a smile, utterly exhausted. "With my heroism and-"

"You inspired me." Bucky said, equally exhausted. "Let's leave it at that."

Together, Sam and Bucky go back to the safety and warmth of their family. Sam fixes his wings. Sam goes back to being Captain America. And Bucky... he's around, but it's unclear what he's doing.

That is, until the very end. When Sam is in a fight, and suddenly Bucky shows up and helps him out.

"What are you doing here?" Sam asks.

"I've made up my mind." Bucky says. "I'm the Winter Soldier. But now I'll save lives, Sam. Now, like you, I'll be a hero."

Sam smirks. "So does this make you my sidekick, then?"

Bucky smiles. "C'mon, at least make me a partner." He says.

"How about co-workers." Sam says (in flashback, he remembers back to the death of his last on-the-job partner).

"How about friends." Bucky says, with a wry look.

"Bucky... I don't want to see you put your dumbass self in danger." Sam says.

"Oh, and it's ok for you to go running off into danger on your own all the time?" Bucky asks.

"Yes." Sam says stubbornly. "Absolutely it is."

"Why?"

"Because I'm not a dumbass?!"

"Sam, if you think I'm not gonna be watching your back for the rest of time... then you're the biggest dumbass I know. And I don't care if you need me or not, I will be there for you."

"Because Sam, you're more than Captain America. You're more than a good soldier. You're a good man. And I think sometimes, the world forgets what the difference is."

...or something like that.

(i only spent like 15 minutes on that. you know if i were actually writing this movie i would come up with something much better. and if anyone from marvel is seeing this, yes i can come work for you. i will make the time, let's do this thing right!)

finale

at the end of the day, whether or not the mcu chooses to make Sam Wilson and Bucky Barnes a couple, it's their decision. and they don't owe me anything.

i'm just some random person on the internet. who thinks that Captain America 4 should #givecaptainamericaaboyfriend

#givecaptainamericaaboyfriend #meta #analysis #captain america 4 #caatws #fatws #tfatws #captain america #cap 4 #sam wilson #bucky barnes #sambucky #marvel #mcu #mcu phase 4

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beepboop358 · 3 years

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A Prom in S4 Theory & Music Coding Predictions

Some leaked set pics indicate that there MAY BE a junior/senior prom at Hawkins High, which they are calling the "Lover's Ball". It's unclear if this prom will be included on screen, or if it will just be mentioned as an event coming up at Hawkins High because this flyer could just extra set decor. Regardless if the prom happens on screen or not, there will probably be some tension about 'who's asking who' to the prom that we will see in s4. Given that this picture was just leaked a few weeks ago, it probably falls closer to the end of the season sequentially.

Having a big school dance in s4 is suspiciously close to how they had the Snowball scene in s2. This would certainly follow the even/odd season patterns, (and actually add to the list of the patterns), which kind of makes me think we will see this prom on screen, or at the very least it will be mentioned in the course of the season.

The Duffer Brothers love Steven King and reference his work and especially 'IT' a lot in the show, but they haven't done anything with Carrie yet so maybe we will get a Carrie moment this season at the prom...

Carrie was on the video store fridays movie inspiration board for ST4.

At the "Lover's Ball", there will be definitely be some music coding relating to Byler. Since music coding is kind of a key thing in the show, I've been rifling through 80's songs to try and find some that may fit with s4's themes/character storylines (and I may do a seperate post about that later), but for this post I'm just gonna focus on what they might use at the prom for relating to Byler.

Since the season is most likely going to take place in 1986, I only selected songs that had a compatible release year so it would be historically accurate. (these songs would also be great for a byler playlist!)

Some strong contenders for the songs that might play at the prom to reference Mike and Will's relationship could be:

"True Colors" by Cyndi Lauper (1986)

This song is honestly too good of an option for them not to use. I'm reallllyyy crossing my fingers for this one.

It's hard to take courage In a world full of people You can lose sight of it all And the darkness inside you Can make you feel so small

"And I see your true colors Shining through I see your true colors And that's why I love you So don't be afraid (don't be afraid) To let them show your true colors True colors are beautiful (you're beautiful, oh) Like a rainbow Oh oh oh oh oh like a rainbow"

If this world makes you crazy And you've taken all you can bear You call me up Because you know I'll be there

"Heaven" by Bryan Adams (1984)

This first verse is literally just the story of Byler... 😭 The rest of the song applies but that verse verse is just sooooo accurate. (I'm crossing my fingers for this one too)

"Oh thinkin' about all our younger years There was only you and me We were young and wild and free Now nothing can take you away from me We've been down that road before But that's over now You keep me comin' back for more

Baby you're all that I want When you're lyin' here in my arms I'm findin' it hard to believe We're in heaven And love is all that I need And I found it there in your heart Isn't too hard to see We're in heaven

Oh once in your life you find someone Who will turn your world around Bring you up when you're feelin' down Yeah nothin' can change what you mean to me Oh there's lots that I could say But just hold me now 'Cause our love will light the way"

"Take My Breath Away" by Berlin (1986)

This song is on Will's Spotify playlist, and I thought it could also be used at the prom since it's a romantic song. I see it as an 'entrance to the prom' moment song, almost like a 'first look' - like the Mike and El moment at the snowball when she first walks in, but with Mike and Will this time. I think the lyrics clearly hint to this kind of 'first look' moment as well.

"Watchin' every motion in my foolish lover's game On this endless ocean, finally lovers know no shame Turning and returning to some secret place inside Watchin' in slow motion as you turn around and say...take my breath away"

Watchin' every motion in this foolish lover's game Haunted by the notion, somewhere there's a love in flames Turning and returning to some secret place inside Watchin' in slow motion as you turn my way and say...take my breath away"

"In The Air Tonight" by Phil Collins (1981)

This song was originally meant to be included in the snowball scene from s2, but it ultimately was not used and "Every Breath You Take" was used for this scene instead. Since it was intended to be a part of the s2 dance, that's why I think it may be used at the prom this season. (you can read the scripts on 8flix)

——— I forgot to include this explanation originally BUT, I think this song might be used to show some anger/resentment between the two, and to show a decent amount of tension, depending on their development this season. Like maybe Mike is kind of leading Will on in private by continuing to initiate intimate scenes between them, but in public Mike is still trying to put on his “straight boy act” and kind of being a jackass about it, and this song could be used to show the tension between them that has caused.

"And I've been waiting for this moment, for all my life, (Oh lord)

Well, I was there and I saw what you did I saw it with my own two eyes So you can wipe off that grin, I know where you've been It's all been a pack of lies.

Well I remember, I remember don't worry How could I ever forget It's the first time, the last time we ever met But I know the reason why you keep this silence up

No you don't fool me The hurt doesn't show, but the pain still grows It's no stranger to you and me"

"In Your Eyes" by Peter Gabriel (1986)

Some of the lyrics in this song just SCREAMS byler, just look at the 1st, 2nd and 4th paragraphs. I would be suprised if they didn't use this song in either s4/s5.

Love, I get so lost sometimes Days pass and this emptiness fills my heart When I want to run away I drive off in my car But whichever way I go I come back to the place you are

All my instincts, they return The grand facade, so soon will burn Without a noise, without my pride I reach out from the inside

In your eyes The light, the heat (in your eyes) I am complete (in your eyes) I see the doorway (in your eyes) To a thousand churches (in your eyes) The resolution (in your eyes) Of all the fruitless searches (in your eyes)

Love, I don't like to see so much pain So much wasted and this moment keeps slipping away I get so tired working so hard for our survival I look to the time with you to keep me awake and alive

"Heroes" by David Bowie (1975)

David Bowie was bisexual. A cover of his song “Heroes” is used in the show twice already, sung by Peter Gabriel. The song plays when they pull Will's fake body out of the water in season one and Mike cries in his Mom's arms, with some very queer-coded lyrics in the background, and after Hopper's letter in s3 (which is very Byler-centric)

"I will be king. And you, you will be queen 'Cause we're lovers, and that is a fact. Yes, we're lovers, and that is that. Though nothing will keep us together. We could steal time just for one day We can be heroes forever and ever. What d'you say? I, I wish I could swim, like dolphins, like dolphins could swim I, I can remember (I remember) Standing by the wall (By the wall) And the guns shot above our heads (Over our heads) And we kissed as though nothing could fall (Nothing could fall) And the shame was on the other side. Oh, we can beat them forever and ever. Then we could be heroes just for one day We're nothing, and nothing will help us Maybe we're lying, then you better not stay But we could be safer just for one day"

I just thought the above songs might be some highly likely possibilities given that they fit the year of the s4 and also make references to not only love, but the idea of hiding, pain, shame, longing, etc., and can make some (partially stretching here) references to other things in the show such as:

RAINBOWS and TRUE COLORS, SHINING THROUGH (rainbows imagery is always associated with Mike & Will in the show and a is symbol of lgbtq+ pride, True Colors shining through = who you really are on the inside finally coming out)

IF THIS WORLD MAKES YOU CRAZY ("crazy together", "only love makes you that crazy" and references the "world" motif in the show)

YOUNGER YEARS, ONLY YOU AND ME, YOUNG, WILD AND FREE (references "not wanting things to change" and wanting "to make things go how they were" part in Hopper's letter, and the "But we're not kids anymore" comment during the Byler fight)

ENDLESS OCEAN and SWIM, LIKE DOLPHINS (references water's significance in the show)

FLAMES (Will in front of the burning car in s4 teaser?)

LIES and LYING (Mike lying to El about how he feels)

INSTINCTS RETURNING, FACADES BURNING, WITHOUT MY PRIDE, I REACH OUT FROM THE INSIDE (Mike's feelings for Will are his instincts, the facade is the act he put on in s3 to seem straight, burning could reference Will & fire, and I think the last 2 lines of that 2nd verse reference vulnerability- perhaps in an apology/confession)

I GET SO LOST (confusion about his sexuality, feeling lost without the other) and SO MUCH WASTED TIME (known each other since kindergarten but were unaware the other felt the same way/was dealing with same things, they could have been even closer)

KINGS and QUEENS (the d&d game mike wrote where he has king Tristan give him a medal in s1)

STEALING TIME (references "turning back the clock, to make things go how they were" part in Hopper's letter and the time theme in s4 and time is central to the s4 plot)

AND WE KISS - AND THE SHAME (references the shame they both feel about being gay since it was so stigmatized in the 80's)

Byler @ Prom Possibilities:

If Mike and Will did dance together at the prom, they will probably get bullied because they live in a small conservative town. They will probably either run out, upset, or Eleven will step in to protect them which could lead to the Carrie moment.

Or Mike and Will will not dance together in the actual dance room, but instead sneak off to somewhere else in the school and have a private Byler dance moment where they can't be teased and it's just them together.

OR Mike and Will are still acting weird at this point in the season because neither of them is communicating what needs to be said out of fear, or one of them has confessed or done something to indicate how they feel, but the other hasn’t so everything is weird between them. There would be lots of tension from this and we would get lots of longing looks and adoring moments between the two of them from the sidelines. (I think this one is the most likely)

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deanwasalwaysbi · 3 years

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I've gotta say, I find the concept of Bedlund trying to Ben-Hur Jensen absolutely hysterical. I'm just imagining Jensen getting a script and being like "Ben?? What's this? Is this gay? This seems gay????" and Ben just soothing him like a frightened horse.

Hahaha - Look it wouldn't be the first time. What is this verb we're working with? Okay. Strap in everyone. The Multi-Oscar-winning 1959 movie 'Ben Hur' had a bunch of gay subtext. The writer, the director, and the second lead actor all knew that Charlton Heston's character, Ben Hur, was gay. However, one person didn't find out until the 1990s: Charlton Heston. The consensus on set was "Don’t tell Charlton, because he’ll freak out." and when Heston found out in the ninties, freak out was exactly what he did. (x) [the movie may have gotten a reference from Misha back in season 6 (x)]

Whether this happened with Jensen on SPN depends on two things.

Was the character of Dean intentionally written as Bi and, if so, at what point did that become true?

Did anyone tell Jensen? Did he figure it out? if so, when?

I personally DO believe at this point, I really do, that Bedlund - Ben Hur'd Jensen. I think it was part of the writers room but not all of it, until it was. (Which RN I believe finally happened under Dabb.) I think Jensen wasn't in on it, until he was. So for me? I think he really was in the dark at one point. But at what point that changed? Probably only he can answer that question. and RN? He ain't talking.

In the meantime we can only look at things Jensen has said on the subject - Like this unbearably ambiguous GIF set from @nikadd. Was this tongue in cheek? Legitimate ignorance? You're killing me, Jensen. That cheeky lil smile, Jensen. Nvm - I'm going to kill you instead. It's for my own survival. No hard feelings right? You understand.

UH OH HERE COMES A CUT TO HIDE A LONG DERANGED POST...

We can look at the text for number 1 - and I do that uh - a lot - see the blog name #Dean Was Always Bi

For number 2 we can look over some points when we got clues from what Jensen thought was going on [regardless of whether they make sense based on his jacting or directorial choices I guess] and get left wondering whether at any point he felt pressured to lie for his career, for self protection, or to protect the narrative from the network:

2010 - 'We're missing the gay angel' (x) (Season 5 gag reel) (x) “Sorry man, not what the show’s about.” Jared: One of the good and bads about playing the straight [non-comedic] character on the show… Jensen: What wait? I’ve been playing him so wrong

2012 / S8 - Trenchcoat - Jensen talking about how sometimes they change the lines because they're way too gay. Calls Cas a third brother

2012 - "What's Destiel?" Ben Edlund: That’s some weird shit. Jensen: Is this something that you created, Ben? Ben: You don’t want any part of that.

“Don’t ruin it for everyone now” “I still don’t know what the question was. I’m going to pretend I don’t know what the question was.”

2013 @ JIB, re Dean’s reaction to Aaron’s flirting in the season 8 episode Everybody Hates Hitler, (x)

“And the scene wasn’t written to be that kind of - I mean - It was written to be awkward. Ben Edlund wrote the - my favorite line in that scene was ‘carry on . citizen’ that was - I almost couldn’t say that with a straight face I was laughing so hard. But it was - you know - it was comedy. It was a comedic moment in the show and fortunately Dean gets a lot of the comedic moments in the show and it was just, you know, Ben was poking fun at the fact that - you know, how can we make this very kind of manly, heterosexual guy uncomfortable - uh -you know, or or have him back on his heels and throw him off his game a little bit.”

The thing is - Bedlund and Phil Sgriccia made very clear on the commentary track that THEY saw this scene as a 'romantic comedy kind of fluster' "This potential for love in all places."

Ben Edlund calling the writer’s room a boy’s club in 2013 (x)

Misha Collins telling Destiel fans they aren’t Crazy in 2013 after some executives said they were (x).

2014 Jensen says he was glad there wasn’t much Dean and Cas in season 9 - HA Hah HAH (x)

“I think the whole Cas and Dean thing has gotten out of hand” “I don’t think there’s anything secret to their relationship even though a lot of people wish there was” REMINDER - that season we got the nightstands acknowledgement and “play him like a jilted lover” and the “he dumped me James” cut and -

I certainly know that Misha and I don’t play that. SIGH. they Ben Hur'd Jensen.

2014 - the fan fiction joke - 10.05

“I didn’t have a positive reaction, The first time in I think 200 scripts I went and sat down in the showrunners office and said, ‘What in god’s name are you doing?! Why? I need to understand why this is happening.’” “[Carver] gave very eloquent answers and did a great job of explaining why we were doing what we were doing, I guess I had been aware of this ‘fan fiction’ for a while and I felt like maybe if I ignored it, it would eventually go away. When I read it in the script that is what I do for a living and is my work—I’m very protective of these characters and the story and I think we have a right to be—I wasn’t angry. I just wanted to understand why and what was the message we were ultimately sending with this script and story. By the end of it, I felt good and it gave me all the confidence I needed. It was better than I could have ever hoped.”

But then there's Jensen in 2015 talking about all of Dean’s bromances. (x) [gifs at the top] Could go either way - starting to figure it out? or No?

What had changed if anything? the entire Crowely season 10 story line? This was July 2015 - the same day as the SDCC 2015 panel where Misha talked about Destiel (x @ 13) Carver and Dabb were there -

By this time Jensen and Misha were nominated for a teen choice award for best chemistry against various tv couples (and one ensemble cast, but the award nomination did NOT include Jared) .... Misha and Jensen would go on to WIN this award one month after the panel.

At the Panel Rob and Rich ask the question: “You two have branded yourselves as TV’s greatest team since, ... idk who.... Ernie and Bert so.” [Misha says to Jensen & Jared, half not on the microphone: “I really didn’t expect them to throw us under the bus.”] “are we going to see that continue? Is the Castiel Dean relationship still aflutter and still growing as we move into season 11?” Jeremy Carver: “Ish.” [mocking from panel ensues] “Yes. Of course. I mean Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. There’s no doubt.”

Jensen Directs 11x03 and the choreo mimics Goodbye stranger (x)

2016 - Jensen: Dean could have a huntress, but you’d kill her.

Jan 2017 Con the infamous - no hedge - harsh - “Destiel doesn’t exist.” (x)

I would hope that if he knew he wouldn’t have been so harsh with it. So by that point either he still didn’t know - OR - to him ‘Destiel’ was specifically about internet porn/sex and not like - the potential for feelings / a relationship. It makes me think about something Misha had actually said, around 2013, “It’s called ‘Destiel’ and it’s about the romantic interludes between Dean and Castiel.” (x)

2017 - jib8 Jensen called Dean a lover of the ladies

May 2017 - After filming the end of season 12:

2018 - Misha confirms he and Jensen have talked about Destiel (x) - also 2018: The Bisexual Dean essay "? No." (Oh god was this really this recent?! I can't deal with this.)

Well. SOMETHING happened in 2019. cuz here it comes

2019 - "Dean has no taste, clearly." 2019 - 'So, tell us just a little bit about what you're most excited to tackle with your character this final season.' "Cas. Just like a full football form tackle."

Look at this face he gave Dean when Cas told him he loved him and tell me he wasn't playing into it here. You can't. (x)

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lochnessies · 2 years

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I'm pretty tired of certain edelkinnies projecting on her that she's some kind of grand sapphic rep we were all waiting for or something... As a non-edelstan wlw who enjoys pretty much every f/f ship in this game (that doesn't involve the few female characters I don't care for) I get really tired of the argument that not liking her means you hate gay women. Her story and character have nothing to do with telling an LGBT story of any kind, you could literally play as M!Byleth and she comes across as yet another waifu meant to pander to sweaty Reddit dudebros, but some people have decided that she's primarily meant as queer rep above everything else and decided the rest of us should view her that way too. It's already bad enough that "progressive" male fans will call you sexist for not liking their pixel waifu, now I have to deal with people from my own community acting like her being S-supportable by the female avatar erases all her flaws as and I gotta be okay with her bigotry and imperialism because she can be gay (also IntSys is like, SUPER woke and was totally thinking about people like us when creating her, yup!) I should just resort to using the same strawman whenever they talk shit about Rhea, who they don't seem to hold to the same ridiculous standard (and who has substantial f/f subtext in the game that doesn't involve the avatar). "You guys just hate to see a sapphic girlboss winning" will be my mantra from now on.

“certain edelkinnies” i feel like i’m missing out on some drama lmao but oh yeah anon i completely agree.

i can see why some lesbian/bi women would latch onto edelgard since wlw rep is pretty much always a welcome addition but it’s not a shield for her (or rather her stans) to hide behind when someone makes an argument they can’t go against and it’s definitely not cudgel to use against other people to attack their morals just bc they don’t see her in the same holy light u do. also being a villain doesn’t negate her sexuality in any way. she can still be in the wrong and have a crush on byleth of either sex… it’s not two exclusive traits.

personally, i’m not naïve enough to think that intsys made edel bi in an attempt to be more inclusive- it was a marketing ploy 100%. and guess what? i would say the same thing for rhea, dorothea, yuri, lin, etc. does this make me dislike them or view them as less bisexual? of course not but let’s not delude ourselves lol

and i find it kinda telling that i only see this behavior from one section of the fandom. i don’t see yuri or lin stans acting a fool (sometimes doro but not to the same extent). i might joke that rhea is a gay pope and if you hate her ur homophobic but never in a million years would i use that as an actual argument. rhea is bisexual and she still definitely torched those bitches at the end of cf.

#ugh there are so many good f/f ships in the game. ingrid/mercie is good. so is annette/lys. oh and doro/manuela. leonie/mari is a fave ❤️#asks

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abarbaricyalp · 3 years

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Idk if you are still taking prompts, but you know the vine two dudes chilling in a hot tub 5 feet apart cause they're not gay, and a girl quoting it in a park about two girls in the distance and one of them hearing and going "Actually I am gay" Like that scenario, only involving them fixing the boat? Maybe Sarah quoting it to give Sam shit when she thinks Bucky cant hear and Bucky goes "Wait, no I'm gay" or something, or just the general gist of that. Sorry if this us too specific, I've never sent anyone a prompt before :P

Hello Friend! Thank you so much for sending anything in at all! I know the vine you're talking about, but I couldn't find it on Youtube. (I did find a two day rabbit hole of old compilations though) This was also my first foray into writing Sarah as a fully fleshed character! I was excited to get the practice 'cause I had an idea bouncing around in my head about her and Bucky talking after he wakes up in the Wilson house. I kept her a little more like she had been in my other fics pre-show here. I so wish we got a little more of her!

Feel free, anyone, to send me Sambucky prompts!

The North American Superhero in a Domestic Situation

Sarah Wilson loved her brother deeply. The kind of soul crushing love that could only be formed through family, loss, and approximately four thousand brawls around the living room throughout their life. She looked up to her brother more than she could ever imagine looking up to anyone. Even when they were fighting or picking on each other, she couldn’t help but feel a swell in her chest when he came into her line of sight.

That didn’t mean she understood him. In fact, from the age of eight, watching her brother interact with the world had become her go-to pastime. Why did he have to roll every pea around the plate individually before eating them? Why did he and his friends spend seven years socking each other in the arm to prove friendship? Why did he talk to himself in the mirror, even when he knew Sarah or someone else was standing in the doorway?

Sam Wilson was just deeply weird. She had no idea how he had tricked the Avengers, a plethora of bad guys, and half of the media world into thinking he was remotely cool. She saw a news story once that had King T’Challa standing on a platform with Sam and the newscasters talked about how impressive Sam’s suit was. It was unnatural, the effect he had on people.

And in all her years, she never thought she’d see anyone weirder than Sam. But then James Barnes had showed up. It was like a complete reversal of Sam. Sarah was taken in for approximately three hours by his charm and face before she realized he too was deeply, deeply weird.

She justified sitting on the edge of the Paul and Darlene, watching her brother and James Barnes spar off about some dumb trivia fact, by deciding it was an anthropological expedition. The North American Superhero in a Domestic Situation. She watched Sam watch Barnes take a long pull off his beer. She watched Barnes kick his feet up near Sam’s legs and then draw them back quickly when a current jolted the boat. She watched Barnes’ fingers tap-tap-tap against the edge of the boat, inching closer to Sam’s shoulder before he chickened out and brought his hand back to his own lap. She watched Sam suggest Bucky take his jacket off, ‘unless you plan on sun blinding me with the robocop arm.’ She watched Sam look away when Barnes did shrug his jacket off.

When she was seventeen and Sam was fifteen, she had found Sam crying in his room, pillow pressed to his face to muffle the noise. They were at the age where going into each other’s rooms uninvited started international conflicts, but Sarah, who watched her brother intently, felt like she knew what was going on. So she let herself in through their Jack-and-Jill bathroom and shut the door behind her.

Sam didn’t stop crying, not even to yell at her to get out, so she sat on the end of his bed and rolled a baseball under her foot for a while. Finally, she’d said, “You don’t have to tell Mom and Dad, y’know.”

Sam had just about wailed and bit the corner of his pillow to stop himself.

“That’s gross, stop it,” Sarah ordered and pushed Sam’s shoulder back enough to yank his pillow free and then reached over to wipe the tears from his cheeks. “I should make you do the laundry this week so I know I’m not touching your snot germs,” she teased softly.

“How did you know?” Sam hiccuped out. Tears were still brimming at his eyes, but they didn’t fall.

“I’m your older sister. I made you. Like a doll. You think there’s something about you that I don’t know?” she joked. And when the tears did spill over his long lashes, she sighed and pulled him closer to her side. “I just know the way you interact with that boy from the basketball team ain’t just friendly.”

“Jesus, do you think he can tell?” Sam asked and she could hear the mortification in his voice.

“Sam, he’s a freshman in high school. The only thing he knows is that he’s scared of everything too. No one’s paying that much attention to you.”

“Screw you,” Sam muttered.

“What’re all these tears for you if you didn’t make a move and get shot down?”

“God, Sarah, can you not say things like that?”

“Watch your mouth,” Sarah warned with no heat in her voice. “Come on, tell me what’s wrong. I’m not leaving until you do.”

“I just…” Sam sat up and worked his jaw for a while. His chin dimpled and his eyes watered but he managed to control himself. “I’m scared, Sarah. I’m scared of never being in love. Of having to leave if I am. I’m scared to say something and I’m scared not to say something. I’m so scared of...losing any of it.”

“Sam,” Sarah sighed and pulled Sam into another hug. “You’re fifteen. You’re not supposed to be in love yet. You don’t have to think about any of that. You just have to focus on passing Geometry, alright? Mom’ll whoop your ass more for failing than anything else.”

“I have a B+, that’s not failing!” Sam snapped. He kept his face against her shoulder for a second long before he sat up and wiped his tears away. “Please don’t tell anyone.”

“Who am I gonna tell? I told you, my friends don’t like you as much as you think they do.”

“Your friends like me more than they like you,” Sam shot back and he almost sounded normal.

Sarah smiled softly and patted Sam’s cheek. “I won’t tell Mom or Dad. Of course not. That’s for you to do. But--”

“I’m always going to tell them when you sneak out the window.”

“No! Sam! You can’t! You owe me now!”

“Going to field parties is not the same thing!” Sam said in a shriek as Sarah leaned over to pinch his sides. They grappled for a second before Sam managed to push Sarah off the bed.

“You owe me,” she reminded him as she walked back to the bathroom.

Sam wiped his eyes again and nodded. “Sure, Sarah. I do.”

Sam almost had the same look on his face now. Like there was something he wanted to reach for that he thought was too impossible to hold. The Older Sister Instinct to Antagonize into a Solution kicked in.

“Two bros, chilling on a boat, five feet apart ‘cause they’re not gay,” she sing-songed. Sam looked mortified again but masked his face into something more irritated with a roll of his eyes when Barnes looked over at him.

“Ignore her. It’s this old video--” Sam started.

But Bucky interrupted to say, “Actually I am gay,” as he looked back over at Sarah. “Sorry if I got your hopes up,” he added with a grin that really did get the hopes up.

“What?” Sam asked and Sarah, ever watchful, could see the beer bottle shaking in his hand.

“What?” Bucky repeated innocently.

“He said he’s gay,” Sarah clarified.

“Thank you, Sarah,” Sam ground out. “Why didn’t you say anything?”

Bucky snorted. “When would I have said anything? ‘Sorry for ripping your wings off and kicking you off of a hellicarrier, by the way I’m gay.’?”

“You did what?” Sarah asked.

“‘Sorry for claiming I didn’t bomb the UN only to be reverted back to the assassin who would have done that and then fighting you again. By the way I’m gay.’ ‘Thanks for saving my life. Sorry about the giant undersea prison. By the way I’m gay.’ ‘There’s an imminent battle with weird ass space dogs that want to eat our faces. By the way I’m gay.’ ‘Sorry about Tony Stark, whose life I kind of ruined. Lovely funeral. By the way I’m gay.’ ‘I’m in the middle of being pissed at you about the Shield. By the way I’m gay.’ ‘Maybe don’t take me rolling through a field of flowers. It does things to me ‘cause I’m gay.’ ‘John Walker’s fucking insane. I’m gay, but definitely not for this bullshit.’ I mean, come on, Sam.”

“Flowers?” Sarah asked.

“Besides, why would you care? I don’t make it a habit of telling straight guys I’m into guys.”

“You don’t seem to make a habit of telling many people that,” Sarah pointed out. “I googled you. Nothing suggesting that came up.”

Bucky shrugged. “I’m a guy from the 30s. It was trained out of me.”

“Wait, wait, wait,” Sarah said quickly. “Back up away from that because we’re not gonna try to Oppression Olympics our way through our histories. Did you just say Sam was straight?”

“Sarah!” Sam hissed.

“Sure. I mean, I saw him with Romanov. Hill. He has Tinder on his phone.”

“Samuel Thomas, you better not,” Sarah warned lightly. “You’re better than that.”

“He’s a lady-killer.”

Sarah snorted and had to bring her hand up to her face. “He definitely is not. There has been no lady-killing on his end for a long time.”

“Sarah!” Sam tried again.

“You explain it to him then. Mr. 30s is gonna need the long way round explanation.”

Sam sighed and dragged his hand over his face. “Dammit. Fine. I’m not straight either, alright? I’m...bi, or something. It’s been a while since I’ve had to think about it.”

“What?” Bucky asked, not unlike Sam had.

“He said he’s bisexual. Interested in both parties. Swings either way. Hit a homerun and then hasn’t really swung since.”

“Sarah, Jesus Christ,” Sam groaned.

“What?” Bucky asked again.

“I was engaged. To a man,” Sam said.

“Why didn’t you tell me?” Bucky asked, clearly missing the irony.

“Oh, it was inconvenient for you but I had plenty of opportunities, huh?” Sam asked. “Ms. Tell-It-All over there wasn’t joking. I haven’t swung any direction in a while. Not since before I met Steve. My fiance died. And then it never came up.”

Bucky blinked at Sam. He kept bringing the bottle halfway up his body and then setting it back on his leg without ever taking a drink. “Fuck, Sam, I’m sorry,” Bucky said, which was not what Sarah was expecting and it clearly wasn’t what Sam was expecting because Sam finally moved closer to Bucky on the bench.

“What for? You didn’t do anything. This time.”

“Yeah, but if I’d known you were into me too, I woulda kissed you in Germany.”

“Oh, I am so not into you,” Sam denied. “And I wouldn’t have our first kiss ruined by immediately running into the government’s roving show monkey.”

“That’s the worst,” Bucky agreed and also finally moved over on the bench until they were pressed thigh to thigh. “Tell me how much you don’t like me again,” he challenged.

“I can’t stand you,” Sam answered and brought his hand up to Bucky’s jaw.

Sarah couldn’t fight down the grin that came to her face and turned to prop her feet on the pier, back to Sam and Bucky. Just this once, she didn’t need to watch her brother to understand him.

Read on AO3 here!

#anonymous #prompts #sambucky #writing #fanfiction #i answer things #sarah wilson #sam wilson #bucky barnes

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cinematicnomad · 3 years

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Possible controversial opinion time - I can't help but see parallels between Buddie and Destiel. The writers spent 11 years showing how much Dean and Cas meant to each other, and yet it culminated in whatever that abomination of an ending was. I'm still so disappointed and hurt. I feel Buddie is headed that direction. I just don't think the show will ever follow through. It's hard to stay invested when I'm pretty sure I'll just end up sad again.

prefacing this with my usual i'm-a-pessimist-at-heart-and-won't-believe-buddie-will-go-canon-until-it's-happening-on-the-screen-right-in-front-of-my-face:

as much as i love destiel (and oh man, anon, i FUCKING love destiel), i don't think these ships, or shows, or dynamics, are comparable. bear with me for a minute as i provide some really necessary context that i think people tend to forget when making these comparisons:

supernatural was a bush-era (white, straight, cishet) male power fantasy tv show. like, not even the tail-end of the bush presidency, it started airing in 2005 right around the start of bush's second term. we were pretty firmly in the middle of the bush presidency. queer characters on tv were few and far between (usually relegated to one off guest stars or premium networks like showtime or hbo etc etc), gay marriage wasn't even legal yet, don't-ask-don't-tell was emblematic of the ~*coexist*~ ideology, and in the realm of tv even if they weren't overtly homophobic or anti-gay, they were culturally complacent. tv writers felt v comfortable making derogatory comments about queer people just for the ~*laughs*~ (please go back and rewatch gilmore girls and just....wait for the homophobic jokes to pour in, bc holy shit, there are a lot of them) and supernatural fell in line with that pretty squarely (haha everyone thinks sam and dean are gay, the motel owners are always offering them a single queen bed, dean's totally compensating for ~*something*~, isn't it funny).

and supernatural, despite growing and evolving over 15 years, really did hold on to that demographic. supernatural was one of those random shows that appealed to both democratic and republican viewers, and the network, the producers, the showrunners, the writers, WHATEVER, were not going to alienate their conservative audience. because: money.

9-1-1 just?? isn't comparable. the show started airing in 2018 and despite all the terrible things in the world, there HAS been progress in society and we can see that reflected in the show. we have several named main and regular queer characters on this show, who have plots and storylines that aren't just about their sexuality, who aren't used for the very-special-after-school-episode, but exist as fully rounded characters. hen is a main character and has been since e1 and we've gotten such beautiful storylines about her relationship with karen and their family and it is a jOY to watch on my screen compared to the types of (v limited) representation i saw as a teen in the mid-00s.

i mean...i think there are arguments to be made that bisexual representation still has far to go, and i have serious doubts that a ry*n m*rphy project will be the place to see any of that happen (he's biphobic af and i'm not talking about "oh there were some questionable plots in glee"), not to mention i still think that show creators have an easier time getting greenlit when pitching defined characters as queer from the outset compared to arguing for a character who was envisioned as straight-presenting at the start be allowed to evolve/grow/discover themselves through the course of the show (off the top of my head, characters who started out straight and came out several seasons after the fact...callie on grey's, willow on buffy, and marissa on the oc?). like i agree with you there! again, i'm a pessimist, so like i'm not telling you to be more positive or whatever?

but i just think that arguments that destiel and buddie are going to follow the same path lack a lot of nuance and tend to overlook some really important distinctions between both shows and the world writ large, and??

speaking of ship dynamics on their own, i'd just point to the fact that supernatural, for all that i loved about it, genuinely seemed to want to constantly run away from dean and castiel's dynamic? they spent entire seasons coming up with contrived ways to keep the two characters separate or to force them at odds with each other. like, ACTIVELY wrote plots and character arcs that undermined dean and castiel's bond at every turn bc the show didn't or couldn't address how much they mattered to each other. they'd give you like...breadcrumbs and then try to pretend like none of it mattered. (also this is when i plug that if you're not already you should 110% be watching bob weiss's destiel deep dive series on youtube)

on the other hand, whether or not buddie goes canonically romantic (which again! i doubt will happen!), 9-1-1 HAS canonically made their bond central to both characters and has repeatedly underscored just how much they matter to each other and just how involved they are in each other's lives. like, whether or not you think the writers will ever let them confess their romantic love for each other, the show DOES routinely center plots for both characters on their relationship with each other and repeatedly goes back to the same well to define just how much they matter to each other. s4 literally ended with eddie revealing that he made buck christopher's legal guardian like....they are doing the opposite of supernatural tbh.

this ran away from me so i'm just gonna publish this ask as is sorry

✨sleepover weekend✨

#ask #anonymous #I DON'T KNOW ANON #i don't know if any of this makes sense i just kind of typed forever

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if-music-be-the-food-of-love · 2 years

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Hey, I want to read the color of love but I don’t know anything about shadowhunters. Will I be lost?

oh heyyyyyyy 💕 You have no idea how happy this makes me!! I'd love for you to read it. I love that au, and I miss it sometimes. Writing it made me so happy, and I loved the Robbe/Jens/Sander dynamic so much.

Do I think you need to know anything about Shadowhunters to enjoy the story? Not really. I explain a lot of it along the way, and the references I make to the books and outside events are there for atmosphere (there aren't a lot). They don't have anything to do with the plot or characters. Since I'm using the book world, people who've only seen the tv show wouldn't understand most of those references either. It was really just to help me make the world feel more real, give it depth.

But what I can do for you is give you a little crash course here, though you'll have to forgive me. I'll do my best to keep it brief, but this is probably my 2nd favorite fictional world and one of my favorite book series and tv shows ever...so I get a little excited just thinking about it. Putting it under a cut:

Shadowhunters - they're warriors with angelic blood whose sole existence is to fight demons and protect the world. they have super-human abilities, like they're naturally faster, stronger, and start training to fight at an early age. they draw runes on themselves with steles (a fancy pen or whatever) that enhance their abilities or help them, like stamina or healing. they can be stuck up and often don't mix with other kinds of people.

They mostly use seraph blades made of adamas to kill demons bc they’re imbued with aglow power, which is why they have to say an angels name to activate them.

Leadership is called the Clave; local leadership is the Enclave

Live in Institutes (huge buildings that are glamoured to be invisible) in all major cities; not everyone lives in one.

Silent Brothers - creepy order of Shadowhunters that sew their mouths shut and speak telepathically; usually the healers

Parabatai - Shadowhunters who are non-romantic, lifelong partners who've chosen to go through a magical bonding ceremony that makes them closer than siblings. They fight best when together and are rarely separated.

Mundanes - normal, non enhanced people

Fey - the people of Faerie; mix of Angel and Demon; they have a Seelie Queen and an UnSeelie King, two halves of the kingdom; they can look like anything and be a number of different species like pixie, nixie, brownie, etc. Their access to and use of magic varies, but it's a common trait. The main thing to know is that they sided with the wrong side in a war 5-6 years ago and were essentially shunned and treated like 2nd class citizens. They've only just been welcomed back and not by everyone. Things are tense.

Warlocks - immortals who can wield magic; have one demon parent; can be hired by Shadowhunters when needed

Werewolves - exist but I don't think they're really pertinent to my story.

Vampires - also exist but I don't they're pertinent either. These are all the different groups of people.

Magnus Bane - High Warlock of Brooklyn; main character from the actual series and one of my favorite characters of all time; to quote him he's a "freewheeling bisexual;" he's known for helping shadowhunters and is extremely kind, funny, and flamboyant; and he's on the Clave council and married to the Consul

Alec Lightwood - (my love) currently the Consul, leader of the Clave, and the first Shadowhunter to come out as gay; he and Magnus adopted 2 boys. There's so much more but you don't need it for the story. Their ship name is Malec.

I know this is a lot. I hope it's not too much. You honestly don't need to know any of this to enjoy the story. I read Merthur and Buddie fics before I watched their shows.

If it sounds fun, I highly recommend the books, called The Shadowhunter Chronicles by Cassandra Clare (first trilogy is rough at times, but it picks up after that), and the show, just called Shadowhunters.

Thank you for your ask! I had a lot of fun revisiting this world and thinking about what you needed to know. I hope you enjoy the fic and have a lovely day!!!

#lovely anons #my asks #Color of Love #wtfock/shadowhunters crossover au #sobbe

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bottlecaprabbitgames · 3 years

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Oh my god, yes. Directors and developers would honestly start frothing at the mouth of you tried to describe asexual/aromatic orientations to them. I can imagine the same for people who go by neo-pronouns or by she/they + he/they (I'm not sure if these are considered neo-pronouns or if they go by something else (Demi-boy and demi-girl I think??)) or simply anything outside of male and female considering they don't seem to get they/them either.

And I totally get what you're saying about the asshole gay men! It seems that -- in my experience at least -- as a gender-questioning bisexual individual, gay men are always the most judgemental. Of course, it's not representative as gay men as a whole but whenever I see transphobia in our community is always gay men (and the TERF lesbians) who are delegitimizing the identity of trans folk. You'd think they'd have a bit more respect since the gay rights movement was led by a black, trans woman.

Also, I 100% agree. The way people tend to portray neuro-divergent characters already (either as the horror movie murderer or as the all-knowing social reject) is pretty harmful, and I'm afraid that trying to add in the extra layer of Queer™ would just add to the harmful stereotypes. Let alone having a Queer, neuro-divergent, POC -- I feel like that combo would literally put some people in the grave with how representative it is.

Once again, too much, but thank you for reassuring me :D I get nervous asking questions on blogs, even anonymously, because I always assume I've said the wrong thing. Thank you for being a safe space! [|:7

God, neo pronouns... hell, there's a good portion of the LGBT+ community itself that isn't even inclusive of people who use them, let alone people outside of it.

Well, a lot of it also deals with TERF lesbians and white cis gay men tend to copy the same rhetoric in a lot of circles too, I've noticed... and they also like to conveniently forget black trans women built the rights we have, but that's mostly because they can easily pass in most circles, too. And, well, a lot of TERFs are racist and it's not that uncommon to find white gay men who are, too. I mean, god, there was even one on a season of Survivor... who was VERY openly racist. Idk, it's just kinda wack how some people in the community act towards others; feeding into how people want us divided.

Oh, I agree. But I think a queer, neurodivergent POC in widely available media would not only put people in the grave figuratively, I think it'd be literal, too. In a really bad way. I feel like a lot of conservatives would go apeshit and I don't even wanna know what that'd come to, given all they've already done in the last two years alone.

I'm glad you feel comfortable enough to ask, I hope that's not being presumptious of me but I do really hope you feel comfy here! We do try to be as open as possible, as often as we can, given Faye and I both are queer people who know what it's like to be excluded, and even though I know I am talking negatively about white gay men, I'm not trying to exclude them; I just want them to be aware that there are many white cis gay men who are incredibly negative in the community, and as such, they should be mindful of what their words will carry to other people.

#lgbt+#diversity #discussion

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norgestan · 4 years

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SPOILERS!!!!! // i actually despise the route they've taken, i really do. if they really wanted dani and amira, and if they were endgame, i actually wouldn't have minded - i would've sighed a little bit sure, but i'd be ok.... but what they're doing with kassim... i'm just ... wow. disappointed and frustrated is a huge understatement. if they wanted representation it would've been great, but making that representation someone who could've been a really amazing love interest for amira? smfh.

uhhh i tried to put a “read more” but it’s not working???

yeah like i really like how the show has handled the first steps on the damira relationship, where there’s a lot of communication and you can see that they’re both negotiating. my biggest complaint is still that dani is a white man taking the spot on what originally was the place of a muslim man of color. and in that sense, i won’t give eskam a pass. while skamit pretended that they “ethnic-looking” white non-muslim female actress was a hijabi teenager of color, and that’s something i don’t think eskam would do, eskam is the second remake that has taken away one of the spots of that couple with two people of color, so they go to a white actor/actress.

but i agree with you: the worst this has got to be the kasim subplot. i DESPITE it with all my being for the following reasons:

perpetuates the notion that all muslim people are homophobic, something that they show has fought before in cris’ season and in the video lucas filmed with amira.

actually, let me go back to that video. because i feel like the eskam writers didn’t look at that video when they were writing this bullshit. both amira and lucas make points about how homophobia is not inherent to islam, that one can be gay and muslim because it depends on how people interpret their religion and how they feel their faith, etc etc. but then kasim spews out the same bullshit amira was fighting in the first place: that lucas, who lives in a christian environment, will have the support of his friends and people around him, but because kasim is muslim he’s deeply scared and doesn’t want to come out. it’s not because lucas is white while kasim is a brown man, it’s not because kasim has had particular experiences with his sexuality outside his religion. no. it’s because lucas is christian and kasim is muslim. and of course christian people are waaay more open minded than muslim people, right? that’s how LITTLE NUANCE was put in the whole thing. the entire story is written like any youtube comment under a clip of las labass, saying that they will punch cris for being bisexual and other islamophobic bullshit.

this kinda shits on the entire religious subplot of og s3. in og, isak’s mother insistence with showering his son with the word of God(tm) was what held him back from coming out to her and part of his internalized homophobia. the season also made points how what isak believed in, aka the evolution, could also lead into homophobic rationalizations of the presence of gay people in the story of humanity, while sana made sure to tell isak (and the audience) that hatred came from fear, not from religion. isak suffered because he was in a white and christian environment, where people were either disgusted by him (his parents at first), completely okay with outing him because “it’s 2016, get out of the closet” (emma, vilde at some extent, bunch of other people who spread the rumors in school), casually calling him slurs (magnus), fetishizing him and even (the dance girls, the skam fandom), and then people who were supportive of him (admittedly, not all of these things were called out in the show, but people got the point with the first two groups). the only muslim character in the show had absolutely no problem with isak being gay, and supported isak and even’s relationship: sana even got mad when she thought the balloon squad hit isak bc he was gay, when they actually hit him because he fought them first out of jealousy - and back then it was the white girls who insulted sana in the bathroom and who theorized that the balloon squad were homophobic. so, like, absolutely all of that is gone here. and in the last dani/amira clip, dani says how his parents aren’t actually “good christians” (hmmm the christian cult survivor in me absolutely loathes that term) because they’re intolerant and homophobic, but the fact that it’s kasim, the muslim gay guy, who says he’s in a bad environment, means that the show wants us to believe and empathize with him, right? UGH. very progressive of you eskam. i’ve never seen this before.

let me expand real quick on that last point. so far it’s only been amira, a straight muslim girl, who has told us that homophobia is not inherent in muslim spaces. HOWEVER, we have an actual muslim gay character say to out faces that he feels oppressed and that his circles will never understand him the way lucas’ christian circles understand and accept him. and because he’s the gay muslim guy, we’re supposed to believe he’s right over amira, who has never experienced being lgbtq+ and muslim. WOW. I ABSOLUTELY HATE IT.

yet again other western stereotype of a gay guy nonchalantly asking amira to play as his beard. WOW. WOWOWOWOW. WHAT THE ABSOLUTE FUCK. but what i hate the most about this is that amira is clearly SO disgusted by this, the narrative wants us to be on her side and demonize the closeted muslim guy of color for this. all while we were supposed to take dani’s al qaeda joke as a funny thing that amira adds to the list of why dani is the funniest guy she knows and why she likes him. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

moreover, i hate this entire conversation: because amira has had two people come out to her. cris and kasim. and when cris, white christian cris, told her she liked a girl, amira was immediately okay with all of that. but when kasim tells amira that he likes a dude, amira’s reaction it’s just SO baffling: she accuses him of FOOLING and LYING to his family and the people around him. but she never once questioned why cris hadn’t told anybody this yet, much less call her a liar for not coming out to everybody. what the fuck is this!!!!!!! not only this is yet another way that the show demonizes kasim, but it’s purposefully writing amira ooc to do so. wow. i absolutely hate it. i don’t think i have said that yet?

and to close this huuuuge rant off lmao, i just really dislike that everything about kasim’s sexuality is misery porn: begging for the white guy he likes (loves?) to understand him and be with him, the pressure of being the only man on his family, the pressure of his sister trying to find him a good muslim girlfriend, how oh so homophobic muslim people around him are... even if at the end the show ends up saying (again) that coming out as a muslim is Not That Bad, all of this is just, immediately gonna make white/non-muslim people look at this and think: “yep yep yep, muslim people are sooooo intolerant, not like Me, raised in a good Christian environment, where we’re Open Minded not like those arabs”. and i already hate all of that, no matter what the resolution is. this is SO catering of western audiences only. terrible writing choice and i won’t let eskam get out of this one. even if they found a way to say the right stuff at the end, what they’ve done for now it’s enough for me to step away from the remake. but i’ll be here to criticize it when the entire episode is out, you bet.

#skam españa spoilers #answered #skam españa #anti eskam #wow #never thought i'd use that tag before

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