#Panels showing Bruce being an understanding person

[gffa]

Okay, not to defend Gotham War or anything, but I think I'm talking myself into liking what I see it's trying to do. Starting with some great tags on this post:

#i get why people are hating on it i really really do. trust me#but TO BE FAIR... zdarsky has been making it overwhelmingly clear that bruce is SERIOUSLY unwell right now#like it's been nonstop Horrors for him for like. over a dozen issues straight. with no rest or time to process. and he doesn't have alfred#who was a HUGE part of his support system not to mention the finances etc etc#iirc there's even a panel that pretty much outright states that this is more of an issue of control than morality#and that includes the choosing sides thing like the batkids seem more concerned w how bruce is going off the fucking rails than#just the moral aspects#anyway (via @clownprince)

#Batman#Bruce Wayne#REAL#REAL REAL REAL#LIKE. Zur En Arrh is a LITERAL Defense Mechanism going Malignant at this point#Not only that but throughout Zdarsky's run there's been allusions to illnesses and Bruce Not Having A Good Time#Not Having a Good Time and Not Having Time At All to take stock of the sheer What The Fuck-ery that's been going on recently#Because it's been a CONSTANT steam of What The Fuck-ery nonstop#And the Worse is yet to come if one considers the future issues synopsis and the ''I am a Gun'' story by Zdarsky#(At most I'm a little bit concerned over how Zdarsky will try to wrap this up‚ but that's a normal concern especially about Comics)#(Especially Batman Comics considering how often Editorial likes to... do things) (via @kaosvrow)

I agree with so much of the criticism of Gotham War, especially that the arguments for or against Selina's plans are absolute garbage by characters who should be making better arguments and that the other characters are being used as bobbleheads instead of actually giving them their canon personalities--and, okay, I will also point out that in the VERY FIRST ISSUE, Selina's plan gets someone killed and so I'm willing to extend some grace that the story isn't trying to push forward that either way is actually right, I honestly don't think it's about that. I think it's a story about Bruce Wayne's mental state, because Zdarsky's been building this up for awhile now, like the issue immediately prior to Knight Terrors? Shows us Bruce's mental state is ALREADY absolute TRASH right then:

Zur-En-Arrh was already leaking through the seams of his mind, he was already feeling the impending doom of everything he cared about being burned away, that his mind literally couldn't watch his kids being happy and together and getting along without feeling like it was all burning to ash.

And then Knight Terrors happened, which was one more thing digging hard, boney fingers into his trauma, and he handled it pretty well in the moment, but it's such a giant, non-stop pile of stress on a mind that is already damaged to hell and back because of his trauma.

Further, the very first issue of the Gotham War storyline? The very first panel, the one that sets up the stage of what's going to happen, makes a very clear point about how this is about Bruce fracturing:

And then on the very next page, Zur-En-Arrh is literally stalking at the bars of the cage around Bruce's mind.

And then Bruce wakes up and it's immediately more establishing just how worried everyone is about him because so much has been piled on lately:

Bruce hides his missing hand from his family, just like he's trying to hide how scraped thin he is right now, and goes out on patrol.

Where his internal monologue is all about how defensive he feels lately, how he feels like the years are catching up to him, how nothing feels right but this, making it clear that Bruce is hanging onto Batman with a death grip because it's the only thing that feels stable to him right now.

And all of this is in the first TEN PAGES of the first issue, this is our set-up, this is our foundation, this is what we're being given to understand what this story is about. Then Batman #137 happens and it's literally ALL ABOUT BRUCE'S MENTAL SPACE, that Selina's plan is the catalyst, not the driving point behind all of it. Again, I'm in 100% agreement that the Batkids are acting like cardboard cutouts because you will never get me to believe that they didn't notice crime going down or that they wouldn't be pointing out that Gotham's wealthy are just going to start making their security lethal in response or that the Court of Owls won't step in, that this is not a long term solution to giving these people lives beyond crime, or even that a lot of them should be agreeing with Bruce, that they don't get to decide who is an acceptable victim. But the story isn't really about changing up the way comics deal with crime, it's about even the Batkids are framing it in terms of how it's about Bruce. Jason is really the only one who seems onboard with trying out Selina's plan, but even his confrontation with Bruce isn't really about that, it's about all their baggage, their fight immediately becomes about how angry Jason is at the way Bruce has treated him. This fight isn't happening because Jason's a true believer in Selina's plan, it's happening because he's angry at Bruce and Bruce is in a shitty mental place, after all the non-stop horrors AND feeling like he's been betrayed by the kids who he thought understood that people being victims wasn't acceptable, and so he lashes out at Jason.

When they fight, it's not because they're siding against Bruce, it's because he's become unstable and dangerous. The why of it doesn't matter, it's not about that.

(And I'm actually okay with the way that fight happened because I can buy that, for example, Cass might be holding back against him, she's a stronger fighter than he is, but he's being ruthless because of the state he's in, while she might be feeling more cautious.) When they fight, it's not because they're siding against Bruce, it's because he's become unstable and dangerous. The why of it doesn't matter, it's not about that. Even further, when Bruce fights against his kids, he's wrong and biased, especially in the fight with Dick, who he thinks has a sloppy offensive and doesn't know darkness like he does--to which Dick just immediately cracks him in the face because, yeah, Dick Grayson does know darkness and Bruce isn't as untouchable as he's trying to make himself seem (because being Batman is all he has right now).

I think it's important that it's Dick who defies his expectations here, because this story is building off context of what happened between Selina and Bruce, that they were truly together for awhile, they were about to get married--Selina mentions that it the first issue, it's a major thorn in that conversation when she throws out how she doesn't believe that Gotham needs Batman anymore, it needs her.

She's giving him what he said he always wanted, she's giving him the thing that kept them apart, he should be happy, should they head to the church now? Saying that he won't because he wants to be Batman more than he wants to solve the city's problems.

The failed wedding between them is important in part because of what Selina's saying here, illustrating that both of them are bringing a lot of baggage to the table but also because of what else happened during that storyline, why the context is so important. Because that storyline dovetailed into one about Bane wanting to take over Gotham and he needed Batman unstable and distracted, which was working after Selina left him at the altar, he was a mess. But you know what was saving him at the time, bringing him back from the ledge? THIS KID:

Dick was the one poking and prodding at Bruce with jokes and warmth and care and it was working. He actually got Bruce to cry in front of him, to release some actual genuine emotion!

Dick makes Bruce more emotionally stable, to the point that Bane had to hire KGBeast to shoot Dick in the head just because he was so good at stabilizing Bruce--this is also why Dick's the one who says he'll go talk Bruce down off his moral ledge in Batman #137.

So, it's Dick that has to be the one to defy his expectations in the fight, has to be the one who breaks through Bruce's offense and knocks him down in what feels like a betrayal even when it isn't, because this isn't a story about who's right and who's wrong, it's a story about Bruce isolating himself because he's mentally fractured to hell and back, because he's not trusting his kids, he's still hurt by Selina leaving him, he's still grieving Alfred's death, he's run ragged physically and emotionally and mentally by a series of exhausting horrors piled on him, he's lost his family's fortune, he's not even living in his own family home anymore. (I focus on Dick here as an illustration of tying this back to previous examples of Bruce crumbling and important context that the storyline is drawing on, but Gotham War isn't really specifically about Bruce and Dick's relationship, but more about Bruce's relationship with all his kids, like Tim and Jason and Damian all have equally important moments. But it's a very direct example of how his children are a huge part of his support system and draw him back from the ledge of being just Batman and back into being Bruce.) That's why the issue ends with Bruce getting the papers telling him that the bank sold Wayne Manor to Vandal Savage, because it's one more thing that's stripping Bruce Wayne away from the character, and leaving him with nothing but Batman and Zur-En-Arrh. Gotham War isn't actually a story about a war for Gotham. It's a story about Bruce Wayne going out of control and everything is written to serve that. The characters' fights are catalyzed by Selina's plans, but they quickly become about Bruce's relationship with the characters. The narrative makes heavy-handed points about Bruce feeling like he's losing his grip, that he's hallucinating and talking to himself, that he is extremely mentally unwell right now. Everything Zdarsky's been writing (like especially the "I Am a Gun" storyline right before Knight Terrors) has been building up to fracturing Bruce Wayne.

#lumi.txt #dc #batfam #bruce wayne #dick grayson #selina kyle #gotham war #long post #feral gremlin length post

[fractualized]

hi!! i hope you don’t mind me asking this but i recently read harleen (specifically issue 1) and wondered if you might know of any other comics that have an outsider perspective of batjokes? thanks !!

I don't mind at all, anon! I also enjoy in-universe outside perspectives on Batman and Joker's relationship (and I've included quite a bit of it in fic). Harleen #1 does have a pretty great one:

The most common commentary on Batman and Joker from other characters is the ol' "why haven't you killed him yet?!" but that reflects more frustration than any inkling of the connection between Gotham's most famous nemeses. So with the help of @distort-opia, I wrangled panels from a couple dozen comics that show characters having a better (even if incomplete) understanding of what the heck is going on there.

Many of these may already be familiar if you've been around batjokes fandom long enough. Regardless, spoilers abound!

I've ordered these (mostly) in cover date order.

June 1996 - The Batman Chronicles #5

This is a flashback that takes place shortly after The Killing Joke. Barbara is understandably bitter about being fridged, and it's clear that officers who saw Batman and Joker laughing together have spread the word, because heyyyyy wtf?

October 1996 - Catwoman (1993) #38

Selina knows releasing other rogues is a good distraction; Batman is always more concerned about Joker than her.

May 1997 - Batman: Batgirl

Before this, Joker was firing his gun willy-nilly, hitting his own men, and he hit Batman accidentally. Barbara doesn't seem to think he fully understands the consequences of killing Batman, especially given the surprise he shows when Batman goes down.

Five years later, this story gets retold (with a worse rendition of Joker's fantastic oufit):

July 2002 - DC First: Batgirl/Joker 

In this version, Barbara more actively realizes she needs to get at Joker by laughing at him, because he's caught up in a reality where Batman is the only other real person. (Not sure if this is the first comic to posit that idea, but it has shown up elsewhere.)

February 1999 - Catwoman (1993) #65

Joker has been terrorizing Catwoman for Batman-related reasons for a few issues, and she knows that saying she's killed Batman will devastate him. (You know, the more stories like this I see, the more I see Tom King actually didn't have too far a walk to jokerize Selina.)

August 2001 - Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight (1989) #144

Alfred has noticed that Joker's presence affects Bruce's behavior. 

September 2003 - Batman: Gotham Knights #43

This take from Barbara is set before TKJ and meant to foreshadow (aftershadow?) it. Here she shows a better understanding of Batman and Joker's relationship than Bruce does.

October 2003 - Outsiders (2003) #3

Luthor knows just how to get under Joker's skin.

March 2011 - Streets of Gotham #19

Hush also knows how to get under Joker's skin.

March 2011 - Gotham City Sirens #19 

Selina and Harley are thinking more about themselves here, but it's not hard to connect the dots. Joker is part of the criminal morass that Bruce is focused on fighting, and Joker's focus is constantly on how to best the Batman.

November 2011 - Batman: Noël

Bruce has been told that Catwoman has information about the Joker's whereabouts. Note that Selina isn't saying she's aware that Joker is up to something right now; she implies that Batman is always thinking about Joker. It's a fact she can bank on.

May 2013 - Injustice: Gods Among Us #4 (digital release #11) 

Perhaps the most infamous example. This is related to the "why won't you kill him?" trope, but Clark's accusation takes it further by directly saying it's because Bruce loves fighting Joker more than he loves his friends and family.

Clark says something similar about Joker being Bruce's playmate in another comic:

August 2014 - Adventures of Superman (2013) #14 (digital release #41

Even outside of the Injustice universe, Clark knows Bruce's priorities are out of whack when it comes to Joker.

January 2013 - Catwoman (2011) #14

Selina just stating the obvious here, again after a now-faceless Joker has tormented her for Batman-related reasons for a couple issues.

April 2016 - Batman (2011) #49

Heartbreaking example from Alfred here. He watched Bruce's obsessiveness and understood that Bruce, consciously or subconsciously, saw dying with Joker as his destiny. He probably suspects that Joker didn't really die either and knows they're going to end up back on the same track.

April 2016 - Batman: Europa #4

These panels sum up Europa. Bane, always looking for fresh ways to break the Bat, saw Joker as a clear catalyst (even if he had to make up a convoluted plot to make Batman see it first).

January 2017 - All-Star Batman #4 (backer)

Duke is pretty much repeating Bruce's soliloquy from Death of the Family here, so he's not saying anything Bruce doesn't really know, but he doesn't know that Bruce knows. lol Interestingly, this happens before Dark Days: The Casting, in which Duke watches Joker demonstrate his love in a more positive way by trying to stop Bruce from blundering into everything that happens in Dark Nights: Metal and beyond.

January 2018 - Batman: White Knight #2

White Knight is problematic from a batjokes standpoint (and other standpoints!) but poor Harley presents another infamous outsider perspective here.

October 2018 - Harley/Gossamer Special

She's right and right to say it!

August 2020 - Birds of Prey (2020) 

This take is interesting in how it posits that Joker already felt unfulfilled by Batman by the time he met Harley and that she was kind of a rebound.

August 2020 - The Joker 80th Anniversary 100-Page Super Spectacular

This is from "The Last Smile," in which Harley reveals Joker's recurring nightmare about Batman mocking him as he's put to death. Joker didn't picture Harley appearing to save him, but perhaps he felt like Batman's respect was "saving" him all the long.

September 2020 - Batgirl (2016) #47

Nooooo! That's the thing he's sensitive about!

April 2021 - Batman/Catwoman #3

I have… a lot of thoughts about Batman/Catwoman, few positive, but if you can push past the muddling storytelling technique (and the batcat if that's not your thing), Selina has a lot to say about Bruce and Joker's relationship, like in this and the following example.

May 2021 - Batman/Catwoman #4

Catwoman describes how Batman treats all his rogues and then equates that with how he treats his lovers. How much do you know, Selina? Who is Joker's main competition?? It's Harvey, isn't it?!

May 2022 - Detective Comics (2016) #1058 (backer)

Even newbie F-level antagonists like The Forgotten know what's up!

Well, that was a lengthy but surely not exhaustive account of what other DC characters think about the vibes between the Dark Knight and Clown Prince of Crime. (May they be bewildered for years to come!) I hope you spotted some comics that caught your interest, anon.

#batjokes #joker #batman #analysis #kinda

[toughguywithbossygirlfriend]

Selina wrote a letter to Bruce to tell him why they can never last...

As I write these lines, we're around DC Comics's Batman(2016) Issue 135 and Catwoman(2018) Issue 55 and things between the Bat and the Cat have gone rather bad lately. We are far from the glamorous wedding most of the BatCat fans dreamed about before Batman Issue 50.

I cannot really understand the hate some writers get because of the way they write both characters drifting more and more apart... I remember back then, several Issues after the "WonderBat Issues" (Batman #39 and #40), how I tried to cool down some of those shippers with some hard facts scattered all over the earlier Issues.. They were deaf to any argument.. now some of those same shippers start to hate BatCat ...

I agree teasing the romance the way it was done was not really fair but it wasn't as if the readers weren't warned.

With what happens lately between Bruce and Selina I wondered at what point Tom King tried first to show that BatCat was a dead end.. and I didn't honestly expect it to be this early ...

The first time Selina appears in TK's Run is in the very last panel of Batman's Issue 9.. Nothing there...

But then in the next Issue ... DC Comics Batman(2016) #10 written by Tom King and Pencilled by Mikel Janin ... I wasn't expecting anything either ... but I was wrong.

Once reading Selina's arguments I couldn’t help but to wonder why Tom King sent Bruce and Diana into Gehenna ... and teased them as a couple again.

(Edited from DC Comics Batman(2016) Issue #40 and #50)

To get TK's message from Issue 10 about the fate of the upcoming romance you needed to read Selina's letter to Bruce ...

There are handwritten sentences, I suspect intently scattered all over the 10th Issue, picture after picture, panel after panel, .. In a way you get either bored about the stuff and just ignore it for the real action, or you mix it up with the rest of the story and get a little confused.. You need to read Selina's sentences in one row and ignore the rest to understand easier her letter.

You'll find the first part of the letter at the end of the post. It is about Selina's youth and explains the reason why she supposedly killed 237 people.

So lets skip that first part and go directly to where Selina talks about "them" ... the Bat and the Cat ..

(Edited from DC Comics Batman (2016) Issue 10)

Sure there are some undeniable similarities ...

(Edited from DC Comics Batman (2016) Issue 10)

OK, that was a better argument than the animal costumes, and I can get the feeling, the idea, but Selina immediately points out that it is only a fleeting moment, “a second, just that second.. “… Seems rather thin to marry someone and Selina doesn't get fooled either by that fact because ...

(Edited from DC Comics Batman (2016) Issue 10)

There it is ! ... in the important, good ways, ... we are not the same at all... and that's why the kiss never lasts ... "the kiss" being a metaphor for their relationship ... Selina knows they don't really fit together and can't make it work because in things were it really matters, where it matters as a couple, they are too different ... she even explains ... where those differences find their roots : He wants to make a better world, while She doesn't care about changing the world for the better, she just want to destroy those who hurt her and those she loves...

(Edited from DC Comics Batman (2016) Issue 10)

Here Selina tries to explain why she is the way she is and why Bruce is so different from herself.. She seems to consider that she had it worse because she never had that "first paradise".. Maybe, maybe not.. I can't decide if it is worse to have known “Paradise” only to loose it, or to never have known what you would have to loose ... was it easier to be alone in a giant Manor with an old Butler for only company or to live in an Orphanage with other kids to play even if it ended badly a little later.. hard to say but both resulting personalities seem understandable..

(Edited from DC Comics Batman (2016) Issue 10)

In that last part Selina finally tells us what would be needed for the two of them to get a chance to make a relationship work ... Bruce needs to give up his dream of a better future, to give up his fight for a better world, he needs to give up hope, ... he needs to forget about the lost love of his Parent ... and surely Alfred's love as well ... then, and only then, Selina tells us ... "the kiss" will finally last.

This pretty much means Bruce needs to quit being himself, quit being Batman .... Does anyone see this happening anytime soon ? ... never ? yeah that's what I thought too.. and Selina knows this just as well as anyone else. Selina doesn’t even consider changing herself to make it work.

Unlike Selina, Diana shares Bruce's dream of making a better world, she wouldn't want him to forget about the love of his parents, Diana wouldn't want him to feel left behind ... According to Selina's own words, Bruce and Diana are alike in the important, good ways, and that means their “kiss" if it ever happened would last...

Now you understand why Tom King mischievously added WonderBat in his run, then sent Bruce and Diana to Gehenna and made them say:

(Edited from DC Comics Batman (2016) Issue 40)

Tom King didn’t include Steve Trevor in the “Double Date” like he did with Lois and Clark. He intentionally excluded Steve and Selina from the picture to tease about Diana and Bruce as a couple. Unlike the "BatCat kiss" the "WonderBat kiss" can never happen ... because unlike BatCat, who will break up every time as Selina explained it, WonderBat is bound to last against all odds...

Diana and Bruce’s refrained love already lasts for decades even without a real relationship...

For those who want the whole letter ...

In the first, longer part of the letter, Selina is writing about her own youth and why she was supposed to have killed all those 237 people... The killing is not really important because we'll learn later that someone else did it : Holly Robinson, and Selina just took the blame ... so that part of the letter is a lie... but Holly and Selina shared that youth, shared the life in the orphanage and the bombing, the burning, the horror ... so when she talks about anything aside the killing, she talks about herself.

(Edited from DC Comics Batman (2016) Issue 10)

Sad story indeed for a little girl... You can't help but to want to support the little Selina, help her, love her ...Selina hardly talks about Holly's perspective here. What would be the point ?... But Holly surely shared Selina's trauma from the orphanage's tragedy.

(Edited from DC Comics Batman (2016) Issue 10)

Both Selina and Holly had to be present and survive that bombing.. The emotional description of the burning horror, especially the burning picture of the Waynes only makes sense from Selina's POV, imo... it feels too personal to be someone else's POV.

(Edited from DC Comics Batman (2016) Issue 10)

Like I said the killing is a Lie from Selina to protect someone that she love enough to sacrifice her own life for... and it is not Bruce. In most Catwoman runs from the past Selina had always some female character that she cared more about than Bruce.

#wonderbat #batman #bruce wayne #diana prince #wonder woman

[northsealight]

Hey, when you said RHATO Jason is the worst version on your last ask, were you referring to the first comic, second comic, or the Webtoon? (Honestly annoyed the Webtoon took that name, makes things even more confusing)

I have problems with all 3 (Webtoon most of all for sure, with the second and first switching places behind it based on what characters or plots I’m thinking about tbh), but I was just curious haha

oh. oh. oh you're not ready for this. I've been trying this entire week to find a good time to air out my thoughts:

so! in my opinion (again, this is not shaming anyone for liking what they like! if you happen to like RHATO!jason all the more power to you! dont read this!) all three reiterations of RHATO!Jason .. are not great. the one I think might have potential to be salvaged is the second one with Artemis and bizarro! (although roy harper is in my heart of hearts)

the way Jason is written in rhato... the rhato written by Scott Lobdell anyway, (who is actually a sexual predator and when you start to think even a LITTLE about how the women are written in RHATO makes so much sense) portrays Jason as yet another cookie cutter anti-hero-deadpool-esque personality who's mainly confined by the narrative restraints of his character.

I say this because hes so.... the way he goes about his vigilantism is so .. shallow. It's like the narrative is finding excuses to make him violent so the reader can be stimulated with Michale Bay explosions lol. You hardly see any stories in there where Jason is an actual champion for the people, and you hardly see his background as a street kid come into play... its like... he became... a vigilante because....he knows how the system can fail those... alienated and forgotten by those sworn to protect them... and thus channels his energy into said people through acts of radical protection... (also because the whole bruce thing yeah I know)

I keep thinking about injustice!Jason's monologue where he literally says something along the lines of "while bruce and clark were fighting I fought for the people who were being caught up in the whole thing" like if that doesn't just tell you who he is idk what will! and sure, injustice isn't Jason source material, so look at under the red hood! he literally becomes a drug kingpin TO CONTROL crime ... and then instead of getting these immense shows of care he has for the community in RHATO, we get panels like this:

like ok get it I guess 😭😭😭😭

this is the new and improved Jason!! he's suave.. hes American... he's... just like every other antihero now!!

I don't know how to explain it without sounding like an idiot- best bet is to read the comics yourself to kinda get what im saying! but even rebirth Jason is (kind of) getting what RHATO Jason doesn't-- he's a product of his huge heart. rebirth Jason has countless stories where we see how Jason ACTUALLY operates as red hood, and what his symbol means to the citizens of Gotham!

if you pour too much grit and "edginess" into Jason, then you kind of miss what he's all about- he can still be silly and sarcastic! in fact, one of my favorite Jason moments is from red hood: lost days, a series where he's portrayed as an edgy, "misfit" ruffian:

like. hello this is hilarious. and we can still have moments like these while balancing his emotional range as a vigilante that's motivated by his big fat heart! (ignoring the fact that he slept with Talia in the next issue 😭 Jason fans can't have shit 😭)

but anyway! ill likely add more when I'm not feeling so tired, but god!! is it so hard to show Jason's propensity for kindness!! is it so hard to realize that his character to the core is revolved around a deep understanding for others based on personal experience!!

there's a reason why DC (in the rare moments when they know what to do with his character) always writes stories with Jason consoling children, or Jason being good with kids in dangerous situations!

it's because he's been there before. he's felt the grief and confusion of being helpless in a situation of his control. he's felt the consequences of adults who were supposed to protect and raise him! he's been killed for daring to cling on to the notion of trust even after all he's been through!

and I don't know, I think his dedication to the people, children especially, is his way of forgiving himself- his way of telling little Jason that it wasn't his fault.

#I went a little crazy midway through but I hope this answers your q! #and I hope it makes sense. I swear im more coherent when I have my thoughts together #the last panel actually makes me sob god above what the hell is that and why are my eyes sweating #Jason robin :((((( #Jason todd #vee's soapbox #asks #thank you for the question btw!! I love answering qs like this #batman #red hood and the outlaws #under the red hood #red hood lost days #red hood

[sporkberries]

Do you have any Huntress/Helena Bertinelli issue or comic run recs? 👉👈 you have infected me with helena brainrot (positive)

So There are a two ways I can answer this question, the way i did previously with just the comics I'd recommend to get started or a full timeline for her- This time ill go with the full timeline. If you just wanna dip your metaphorical toes in the water check out this post, if you want to read her story from start to finish this is the post for you.

FIRST SOME CONTEXT ON HELENA BERTINELLI'S CHARACTER CREATION. Pre Crisis on Infinite Earth's there was a character known as Helena Wayne, she was the daughter of Earth Two's Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle and was The Huntress. She was fairly popular but the whole uhh massive crisis event erased her from continuity. The problem was people still wanted Huntress she was a recognizable name and also just people liked her so Helena Bertinelli was created. Despite sharing a first name and a superhero name Helena B and Helena W are INCREDIBLY different characters in personality and just.. in like every conceivable way. Alrighty now lets get started, Helena Bertinelli makes her first ever appearance in The Huntress(1989) I really like this comic run. It's pretty intense dealing with both CSA as well as SA but i think it does it pretty respectfully and well. Overall I really like this comic, that being said the art is a bit... rough, so i understand not wanting to read it. The Huntress(1989) 'era' of Helena ends with Justice League International Special 2, which btw if anyone has an actual good scan of this please let me know because my scan is ASS Then we got Detective comics #652-653 which has Helena's new costume and a team up with B-Man himself. Now its time for Robin III: Cry Of the Huntress- This is the first Helena and Tim team up!! I love them so much they r so silly so I consider this book required reading, also Helena has an awful mullet it's amazing Helena also has another story with Tim around this time in Benedictions which is a three part story in Dc Showcase 1994 # 5, Robin(1993) #6 , Showcase #6. Azrael is also running around as Batman during this so thats fun and quirky(i like azbat okay)

Next is Dixon's Helena with Huntress(1994) ERMM this is a comic that exists. It has some panels I like but i don't think its required reading it's uhh... Dixon!! and WOagh no wayyy another tim team up its almost like they are siblings bffs 5ever this is crazy Detective Comics #685-686 and Robin #17 also sidenote i like Lynx's 90's design a lot sighh Next is a string of complicated and long story lines. With Batman Contagion, Batman Legacy, Batman Catacylsm, and Batman No Man's Land. Also she gets her best outfit here yayyy :). Now parsing through all this stuff I don't really care that much about Batman: Legacy and I'm not gonna lie to you and say I've read Contagion in it's entirety because I haven't. Just know that Gotham gets hit by a mutated ebola virus and it sucks and is bad for everybody sjdkfbasdkg. Also again cool new Helena outfit top ten epic moments. Before all the No Man's Land stuff there is Birds Of Prey: ManHunt and Nightwing/Huntress. I do not like the latter and have no strong opinion on the former other than it's the start of a long line of Babs treating Helena like shit. ManHunt does have Dinah and Helena interactions though so :) yippeee Almost forgot this but Read Detective Comics #703 its a really cute Helena and Tim story read it right now thank you XOXOOXO I consider Cataclysm and No Man's Land, No Man's Land especially, CRITICAL HELENA READING. HELENA IS SO GOOD IN NML OH MY GOD. Cataclysm is kinda the set up to No Man's Land and also has a cool Helena/Steph teamup in Blunt Trauma. But No Man's Land is where the really juicy stuff is. I'm not really gonna say what specific issues Helena shows up in because you should really read all of or most of No Man's Land as its not only an important Helena story but THE MOST IMPORTANT Gotham story(in modern times anyway). I read the 5 trades but I've heard good things about the Omnibus as well. If you need further help with No Mans Land and how to read it just shoot me an ask or smth. READ NO MAN'S LAND Okay now after NML Huntres Joins the Justice Leauge of America in JLA #16. I have not read all of Helena's JLA stuff so i cant really comment on it I'm a failure sorry... NOW FOR THE RUCKA STUFF GREG RUCKA LOVE OF MY LIFE!!!!! So First check out Batman Chronicles #15, it's not all Helena but it does have a Helena story which is her first meeting with The Question so erm go read that !!! Now time for one of my fave huntress stories, Batman/Huntress: Cry For Blood. THIS STORY IS SO FUCKING GOOD. It does retcon Helena's previous backstory which i have mixed opinions on but the new backstory is far from bad and also its just soosososo good i love greg rucka so much go read it right fucking now. Now I have bad news for you gamers. We have the Hush storyline wherein Jim Lee introduced the dreaded Helena Ab Window. Hush is generally pretty good but that outfit is uhhh an outfit!! she starts showing up in Batman #609 Generally speaking I do like this storyline so I would recommend the whole thing. Helena regularly starts appearing as a main character in Birds Of Prey at issue 56. Birds Of Prey IS a mixed bag but most of Helena's appearances from here on are in there so... Be prepared for a healthy dose of sexism though. Outside of BOP check out The Question: Pipelines which is a story in Detective Comics 854-864 written by love of my life Rucka of course. Helena is not in the whole thing but its a good story and her and Renee are a great Duo so I recommend it. While your out it also check out both issues of The Question: Convergence. Also written by Rucka and featuring Helena, its good :). Now I did leave some shit out like Battle for the Cowl but thats because I dont like battle for the cowl and also I don't think Helena is very central in those stories so TA DAA here is my list enjoy anon sorry for any spelling errors Tutorial on how i read comics safely

#this whole list is all post crisis/new earth btw #tw csa mention #long post #helena bertinelli #dc #huntress #reading guide #spork says stuff

[hood-ex]

Did you read dark crisis? What are your takes on it, did you like it?

I just watched a YouTube video telling the whole story and I haven't seen you comment on it besides the amazing 'the more things change the more they stay the same' post

I honestly just found the whole thing discombobulating with all the talk of darkness and how it would better or worsen the multiverse. Like ooo the darkness is sentient... or not. It's just created from Pariah's own insanity... or something? (Dude, idk, they talked about it back and forth so much that I couldn't remember what the truth was by the end of it.)

Slade's motivation throughout the story (when he wasn't being mindfucked by the darkness) was ehhh. He wanted everything to end so that people wouldn't have to feel pain like he did when his children died or were hurt. Which, idk, is pretty weird to me since he didn't used to like endangering innocent people and would sometimes protect innocents even if no one paid him. (EDIT: I totally forgot about Slade's involvement with the destruction of Bludhaven when writing this ALKDA. Slade's willingness to protect the innocent depends on who's writing him.) It just seemed a bit out there for him is all. An overreaction, if you will.

Hal and Barry had pretty solid interactions throughout the story. They were getting shit done for sure.

Loved Roy and Dinah's reunion hug.

Black Adam was kind of annoying being all Mr. Doom and Gloom. I understand it was meant to juxtapose the whole theme of light/darkness and hope/despair but whatever. It was also weird af that they made him look like The Rock in one panel.

Gar got an eye patch after getting his eye shot out, and I thought it was interesting how his eye looked perfectly fine when he transformed into a tiger but then a scar appeared across his eye when he transformed into some werewolf looking beast.

Jon's solo fight against the dark army (or whatever the fuck they were called idr) was one of my favorite parts. Mostly because it reminded me of Ponyboy getting his shit rocked during the Greaser vs. Socs rumble.

I like that Clark jumped in to save him from Doomsday at the last second.

Let's see... there were definitely some Titans that could've gotten some more lines in. Some of them didn't really have a major part in the story. They were mostly background fighters.

Dick was not one of those Titans. He had a pretty big role in this story as the "light" in the darkness. Honestly pretty insane that his willpower was so strong that he was able to unpossess himself (he was a candidate to be a Green Lantern at one point though sooo). I thought it was hilarious as fuck when Dick gave his speech to Bruce about his little candle and how he wanted to keep candles lit to bring hope to other people, and then Bruce wordlessly took the candle out of Dick's hand and snapped it with his thumb ASLDKJA, and Dick was all *shocked Pikachu face.*

I mentioned it before but I personally feel a little iffy about how much DC is pushing Dick as the new leader of the future. Mostly because when Bruce previously wanted Dick to become a member of the Justice League, Dick declined. And now Bruce isn't even really giving Dick the option. He's just like, "So anyway the world needs a leader while the JL is on recess annnd that leader is going to be you." Y'know. Despite the fact that being the leader is stressful as fuck and Dick had to step away from two different teams because he was mentally and emotionally worn down from them.

Also, I hate that they didn't keep all the events of this story contained to one book. At one point Damian was like, "Brb," and then later he randomly showed up with some more heroes to join the fight. Like bruh. I'd rather read his little adventure in this story rather than have to hunt down whatever the hell he was doing in some other book.

And the veeery ending with Waller and her idea to get rid of metahumans just made me think of Nightwing: New Order. I'm doubtful that idea is going to feel new or fresh in any capacity, but we shall see.

All in all, the event was kind of just... meh. The art was probably my favorite part. It gave us some good whump shots of Dick and Jon. It also made Dick look more intense and serious which made him feel like his old self. That I appreciated.

#Dark Crisis #thoughts #anon

[rezonan]

Why do people use OOC/Irrelevant stories to justify their hatred for characters?

I'll admit I got this question from reddit but seeing as you are a big fan of Iron Man and certain characters afflicted by this issue I thought I would ask

Comic book characters and the consistency of favored portrayals

Why do people do the exact opposite to justify how cool they think a character is?

Look this is probably the worst kind of question to ask me, back when I was in high school my classmates hated me cause when it came to arguments I would always 'Stand on the fence' or 'Never pick a side' and I agree, even when I disagree or agree I can't help but see the other side of things with some questions.

I think one of the biggest things comic fans need to accept with our medium is that, the only real continuity that exists is the one we try and brute force and make in our heads, some writers themselves don't really care, Geoff Jones ignored Batman previously basically begging for Hal Jordan to come back to life when he was The Spectre to writing Batman basically complaining that Hal was back because to him that is what he thinks Batman should act like with Hal, and considering he probably grew up with a comic like Dark Knight Returns the asshole authoritarian was probably was he knew of the character, who knows I don't know his personal life.

I think we can all say that you have fallen in love with a character based of Non Canon stories, Hell my favorite comic for Superman and the one that got me into liking the character was All-Star Superman. The exact opposite of that like what you asked tho, Hating a character because a story depicted them poorly whether it's canon or not is valid as well, I mean it's pretty damn short-sighted if they have been exposed to better represented sides of those characters, but it doesn’t change the impact they initially felt, wether they can get past that is on the person. Like for example, I fucking hated Superman growing up cause the first movies I remember seeing him in was the freaking Dark Knight Returns duology and certain parts of Young Justice Season 1 but overtime seeing better versions and representations of the characters and also hearing put fans on what he represents has pushed him up to my 5th favorite hero, I do understand not everyone can do this. People just want to support their view of the character.

I also do think people who hate certain characters do reach a lot of the time, sharing panels of stories older than their parents sometimes probably not even knowing what comic it even came from, just happy they have this image of the character they don't like being abusive or something. It's even worse then the he outright go out of their way to find these panels or stories to use for hate on purpose even after knowing it's generally agreed upon it's a shitty representation of the character. Seriously nobody should bring up All Star Batman and Robin as some 'Got Ya!' moment in an argument, just no. Sometimes some people have just predetermined in their mind they want to hate a character and will go out of their way to farm for anything that can paint them in the worst light possible.

With Iron Man it's people bringing up Civil War again and again and again continuously like the 40 years of stories before that don't show why Tony would never do any of that in his right mind. With Superman it's people bringing up injustice in literally any relation to him or people bringing up a scene of Jason Todd blaming Bruce for his death as evidence of how whiny he is even when one of the highlight lines of his first appearance as Red Hood is 'Bruce I forgive you for not saving me but-'

With characters like say, Hal Jordan, Magneto or Venom and meny more, it gets more interesting here. Here what the characters did that was bad IS/WAS(considering reboots in Hal's case) in continuity but a version of the characters that were received much more popularly then makes fans disregard these past appearances as wrong, say they have had this entirely new portrayal longer than they had that one or writers themselves will retcon them away by making them, in the case of former villians now refromed, seem less evil than they were. No no those people Magneto killed weren't innocent humans in the silver age, they were actually anti-mutant bigots that killed a little girl for being a mutant. One of my favorite examples of this is Hulk. Yes Hulk the rampaging monster from movies to series to comics, in comics in I think 2008 was retconned to have never and I mean never killed a single person in all his rampages In the in-universe 12 years at that point, not even indirectly because Bruce Banner was subconsciously calculating all the angles of where he would throw or smash stuff apprently. All those crumbled buildings, nope, nothing.

And you know what? I can agree with some of that (that Hulk retcon is still dumb) because let me tell you the real truth to all this.

Consistency

People love consistency, They don't care about Magneto killing innocents in the 60s or Venom eating people in the 90s, they care about the take that has been supported consistently in their view for longer or just showed more consistently in what they have seen. Even for the haters it's the same, if for example my only experience with Batman was All Star and Certain Post New 52 issues, I would be happy knowing I hate this borderline sociopathic dude that's what I know Batman as.

You see it even with the movies, When The Amazing Spider-Man came out you had people saying it was an inaccurate take or not liking the changes even though it was actually more comic accurate that what came before but fans of the Raimi movies have consistently seen Peter as a meek and nice kid before being Spider-Man not an asshole, they have consistently seen him with organic webbing not with web shooters. Anything that breaks the portrayal they have known the most if gonna make them react either well or badly. People who only knew Tony Stark from Civil War probably reacted well to his MCU version seeing as he broke the consistent borderline villian they knew him from the comics.

So the big issue is people trying to force their own consistent idea of a character on others when comics just aren't consistent, everyone like I said at the start has their own makeshift continuity in their head they made up with books they liked or think fit, the consistent portrayal they know about, so this is why you get people arguing about if Batman is the real identity or Bruce Wayne or if Clark Kent should wear trunks or not I could go on and on like if Wonder Woman should use a sword? Someone who is used to the New 52 version would say yes and someone used to the Post Crisis version would say no. Or maybe it's what love interest Spidey should end up with, people who say Gwen probably grew up with TASM and Spectacular Spider-Man. Better for people to just respectly discuss the takes of characters different people have instead of childishly pushing the version they have in their head as the correct version and putting down everyone else's pretty damn subjective takes. That's with superhero comics of course, the nature of what is canon and isn't and how fans of this stuff talk about it with different 'takes' is way more unique than talking about disliking MCU Spider-Man or talking about why you hate Sasuke or something.

I don't really have a good way to end all this cause that's just it, all about consistency if I didn't get that across the 10 times I used that word. As usual feel free to disagree with me and if possible tell me how and why.

#dc #batman #jason todd #red hood #marvel #iron man #superman #hal jordan #magneto #venom #spider man #wonder woman #hulk

[dyslexicandakeyboard]

muah. muah, mauh. Anti bullshit. Don'r read if you like Talia. And don't go harrassing Talia stans.

I'm tired. So I'm just reading up No Man's Land and I came across Talia. Again. Yay.

I want to go through a scene with full context and say why it bothers me so.

So for context, Gotham destroyed after a plauge and earthquakes. Gov said, you are no longer in the country and Gotham was barred off. The LoA along with Talia did some shitty stuff too.

First intro to Talia is regular. These people have a habit of showing up unwanted or detected.

Then this

Maybe I'm just overly sensitive but I hate this. It's not like they both fighting. He's in his hotel room and she slapping (drawing blood) him for telling her to leave? And it's portrayed as a good thing (and that they still have feelings for each other? That's what some people say.)

He pulls away, rejecting her, multiple times.

Something which I've always found very interesting is that Talia (and Ra's) mainly call him nicknames given by them or his alias. "Detective" "Beloved". More on that as a wider topic in another post maybe.

I understand that point of her dialogue is to rouse Bruce and say that he's acting "dumb" in this situation. Maybe it's my modern sensibilities but it comes out wrong. Talia sounds more possessive (and objectifies Bruce basically) more than anything.

The idea that he's dishonoured her by being in a bad mental place. The lack of calling Bruce by his name. Constantly tying his worth to her. That his importance lies directly in the fact that she loves him.

Again, the same problems as listed up above. Also (small segue), I will never understand the constant posting of these panels (usually out of context) to state that either Talia and him had sex (it's vague and I'm pretty sure they don't) or that Talia values his consent (which is the hinge for their argument).

She undermined his consent at the very start of the interaction. Violently. He's told her to leave him alone. Multiple times. She doesn't listen.

What's interesting to me is that with this interpretation of the relationship, its explictly stated that they wouldn't work out due to the fact that Talia is more attracted to the ideas of Batman than Bruce as a person (evident by the fact that she never call him by his name) and that Bruce, now, has Gotham and protecting the citizens on his mind. It's also implied that Talia knows that it's an endless war between them because they are opposed on their morals. Making her visit to Bruce useless for the furthering of their relationship.

*deep breath*

Finally, if they did have sex, that would be real disgusting. I'm not saying they did, but if people do interpret it that way (it's a pretty vague ending) then this encounter would quite literally be rape.

Bruce:

A pretty clear no.

Talia:

If they had sex, those phrases have rapey-vibes. Plus, we never get any confirmation that Bruce did give consent. (And if he did, one could argue that is was more forced due to the circumstances)

#anti talia al ghul #anti talia #not an anti #bruce wayne #dc comics

[robinverse]

Jason Todd is definitely not the angry Robin, and neither is Dick Grayson.

Reducing the two of them down to an emotion that they both are very much entitled to feel is not a great way to characterize them both—makes them two-dimensional. When I see panels go “Jason wasn’t the angry Robin, Dick was!” with well picked out comics of Jason being a cutie, wanting to do his homework, Bruce calling him Jay and Lad, and panels of Dick from Dark Victory where he’s in a perpetual state of grief and despair and bottomless rage, I think to myself of how this isn’t really solving anything.

Keep in mind that Dick in Dark Victory, is FRESH from his parents murder. He witnessed it first hand, is completely certain that it was no accident, and has lost every sense of belonging. A constant he’s had for all his years—a home (the circus) a family, being surrounded by people who love you. It is understandable why he would regress to a state of anger to leash his grief. To soothe it. He’s a tiny little boy in it too (which in addition, is a great detail imo bc it shows how young he was) and vengeance governs his actions.

AGAIN, if we continue on to Robin: Year One, we see a Dickie who’s dealing with the grief and anger. He’s playing basketball with his friends. He’s talking to girls. He’s making puns as he fights criminals. He’s painfully smart and he’s incredible. Robin: Year One is one of my fav comics ever. His dynamic with Bruce, his run with Two-Face etc. But this isn’t about that so let me get back to my main point.

Does Dick Grayson have anger issues? Yes he does. He had a lot of them. But does that make him the “Angry Robin”? Not really. He was more than that. All of them were.

At the same time, Jason doesn’t need to be a super sweet cute 14 year old all the damn time to not be labeled the “Angry Robin.” In Death in the Family, he WAS flipping out. He WAS angry. And that anger is JUSTIFIED. Jason grew up dirt poor in a neighborhood where he probably never believed he’d make a name for himself or have an adult look out for him. Bruce making him Robin and providing him school and shelter and food does not make all that trauma go away. Traumatized poor street children have the right to be angry at the unfairness of life, they have the right to be furious at the men who hurt kids like him.

Reducing them to just one personality trait or emotion just takes away so much nuance and context. 14 year old Jason Todd can be in the drama club and finish his English Essay 3 days before it’s due and help Alfred with the cooking and STILL want to beat the f*ck out of a child abuser. He’s allowed to be a sweet kid and want to make a change and save kids like him and he’s allowed to be angry at the scum on the streets who have hurt him! Jason Todd is a kid who KNOWS what it was like—and he wants to help.

And yes, folks, it’s classist to think the lower class poor little street kid who was taken in by Brucie Wayne is just some angry violent little brat. He was not. But if he punches you in the face for it then that’s a well deserved punch!

#dick grayson #bruce wayne #jason todd #let traumatized children be angry #let them experience all emotion without giving them permanent labels #dc #my rants

[nightmareinfloral]

HI BESTIE i am thinking night and say about this panel of bruce blaming dick for jason's death and then hitting him like. dick keeps thinking about it when he trains damian. he now understands what kind of hell bruce went through when he lost jason. but he also promises himself he will NEVER be like bruce. he will love this boy and never, ever will he break his heart. Damian will not be his soldier in a mission. He will be his partner. His friend. His boy. His... son.

OMG HI! yes I totally agree with all of this and i think their relationship is so important, especially to damian, because dick was probably the first person in his life to NOT treat him like a solider. dick treats him with kindness and like a human being, not like a weapon. dick COMMUNICATES HIS FEELINGS, which is something bruce doesn’t really do.

dick does everything in his power to not be like bruce and be a father for damian, even if it means he might get hurt in the process. he opens himself up emotionally and allows himself to be vulnerable, which is something damian needed. to be trusted and shown that someone cares. he showed dami that emotion is not a weakness.

whether or not he sees him as a father figure, damian loves and idolizes dick (he wears nightwing merch frequently lmao). i love their relationship sm and think it was so monumental for damian and dick’s character development.

#i’m in my dick & dami feels rn besties #those panels you posted took an emotional toll #i hate the ‘mini bruce’ characterization that they give dami #like no! he should be better than bruce! #he’s been shaped so much by dick #and has so much potential for growth and healing from his trauma #dick grayson #damian wayne

[gffa]

These two pages from Dark Victory have stayed with me ever since I first read it because they're visually hella interesting, I enjoy Tim Sale's art for how stylish it is, but also because every time I see it, I hear the click of a spotlight being turned on, almost like this is a play being acted out. It highlights the connection between the characters, but that it also is shutting everything else out. That makes sense in the moment, Dick just watched his parents die, there's nothing else in the world for him. Bruce is reliving his own trauma of having watched his parents die, as well as watching another child go through the same thing--but, in a way I can't shake, it almost feels like Bruce is intruding on this moment, too. That Dick's loss gets interpreted as a mirror of Bruce's loss--Dark Victory goes to great lengths to hammer home that parallel, it is not at all subtle about it:

But what strikes me about the moment of the Graysons' deaths is that it feels almost like a play being acted out, that Bruce becomes part of it because they mirror each other so strongly, that for all they grow as individuals and come to love each other as uniquely different people, they will always be rooted in this mirroring of each other. Bruce isn't just a bystander to Dick's loss and grief, it fundamentally connects them and defines them--that in many ways Dick understands Bruce the best because, as Dick says about himself, when he was Robin, he was smaller than everyone else, so he had to learn to read people better, to know what they were going to do, because Dick was with Bruce the longest, because Dick and Bruce often are the most similar. But it's also that Dick understands Bruce best because Bruce allowed him in because of this mirror, that sometimes it feels like Bruce only understands people through the lens of his own grief, that's why Dick's the closest to him, because Dick shares that same loss. This isn't to undercut that Dick was a bright, lively child who brought laughter and joy because that is also absolutely true and I will fight tooth and nail anyone who says otherwise. Bruce loves that kid because Dick refused to not be loved, because he's not the same as Bruce, he's brighter, he's better, he's more in so many ways. Bruce and Dick's relationship isn't just one thing or another, there are times when it borders on almost being kind of healthy and then there are times when it's toxic as hell, yet it's always underscored by how much they genuinely love each other, how Bruce keeps thoughts of Dick in his mind to turn to for solace just like he turns to thoughts of his own father, how Dick demands to be worth just as much to Bruce's parents even when they've traveled into the future to be directly in front of him, and Dick gets that worth from Bruce. But sometimes I think about that panel, I hear a spotlight clicking on in my head, I think about Bruce unintentionally inserting himself into this moment of Dick's loss and how Bruce sometimes holds him closer to his heart because Dick's hurt mirrors his own so much. How sometimes Bruce sees the world through that lens of trauma and only how much people can understand it, that the rest of the world drops away and is nothing but black, empty space, except him and the person who understands his hurt.

That I can look at that panel and see it as its meant to be--a moment of pure connection, "I understand what you're going through, I can't take it away, but I can be here with you." and how that saved Dick Grayson's life, how it allowed him to heal and grow and thrive. I can see Bruce's heart breaking because he would have done anything to save this kid from that pain. And sometimes I can look at it and see Bruce watching a horrific play unfold before him and relating to it through his own issues, rather than true empathy. Ultimately, it's really more that they're kindred spirits, that's what the follow-up pages show, that Dick goes through the same process that Bruce went through, he does the same things Bruce did, all while Bruce isn't there to influence him into that at all. Dick is his own person, Bruce couldn't make him be a copy of Bruce if he'd wanted to, he couldn't even win an argument with a nine-year-old about putting on a costume and fighting crime with him and absolutely not staying out of the line of fire. Dick Grayson did what he was going to do, Bruce had nothing to do with making him into that person. But part of the reason they're such an interesting dynamic is because they're not just purely one thing or another, that for all that at the end of the day, Dick and Bruce are naturally like each other in a lot of core ways, it's also possible to read them as unhealthy co-dependent on each other, that them being everything to each other comes with some sharper edges, especially when Bruce sometimes resents Dick for growing beyond him and leaving him, even while desperately proud of him at the same time.

It's a thing Bruce struggles with a lot when it comes to Dick and I think of this tangled web of emotions every time I see that second splash page above. That Bruce came to love this kid as a son, but also as someone who understood what it was like to live with that kind of devastating loss, and how hard Bruce connected with that--and then how hard it was to let him go, when Bruce can't let go of his parents. That it's hard for Bruce to see Dick grow beyond being the son who understood him best, who mirrored his tragedy best, and he'll do it, he loves his kid enough to keep climbing back up out of that desire to hold onto him as his reflection even if he falls back into it sometimes, that some part of him will always see Dick as the one who had that connection that blocked the rest of the world out and understood him in a way no one else could.

#lumi.txt #dc #batfam #dick grayson #bruce wayne #batman: dark victory #long post

[martyrbat]

how would you change tim's character to make him ""better""

(in reference to this post (i think?))

ooh! this is a very interesting thing to ask and deserves an answer for when i can actually think on it more thoroughly but for now:

firstly, for the record, i fully agree with this post about how steph should been the third robin

but okay. i think a key element to any post!jason robin is actually exploring Bruce's grief and how its effecting him. i understand its a comic so they have to keep the action flowing instead of indulging entirely in the vast and deep topic of grief (unfortunately) but i think by actually acknowledging jasons death they can shape the narrative and have it be high stakes and a continuing arc!

bruce couldn't save his own son - how is he trusted to save someone else's? how is he going to save a city and stop evil when he couldn't for the person that mattered most? how he's once again fighting in hopes to prevent someone else from experiencing the same loss but it doesnt take away his pain.

especially with bruces complex to save everyone. anyone dies or has a tragedy occur to them and bruce blames himself every single time. he believes should of (and could of) done something - even if it was impossible. so tie that with how hes supposed to always be prepared, always save the day, always be that dark knight and hero? but failing to the extent that his own child is dead? how jason died hoping bruce would burst in there and save him and then died as a hero when he should of been living as a boy? him being responsible by introducing jason to thie vigilant lifestyle and how his memory lives on in everything bruce does.

show me that guilt! that insecurity and how he still loves jason!! this man hung onto the death of his parents this obsessively, itll be even worse for his child! i literally cannot stress this element enough, he needs to grieve. its gonna be messy and complex and difficult. he's never going to stop grieving to an extent, you never do.

NOW. onto tim (unfortunately). each robin has been a reflection of Bruce's characteristics and sides to its most extreme. if it has to be tim, personally ill go more for tim being more like bruce's detached side. countless nights staring at a screen or paperwork, not knowing social cues as well, having a tendency to isolate when overwhelmed or to avoid reality, paranoid. i think of this panel immediately:

[ID: Alfred scolding Tim after he punched Damian for falsely believing he was attacking Alfred. Alfred says, "He was stopping me from falling. The poor lad is afraid. He needs comfort... Not a fist in the face. It's all very well being blessed with fierce intelligence. But that doesn't mean a thing if it's not tempered by compassion, Timothy. Mr. Wayne knows that." END ID]

not careless, not heartless - to be a robin, you have to care and want to help people. but how you help and style is very different. his compassion being linked to 'the greater picture' vs jason who was so much for the actual people and individuals and "small details' that often get forgotten about in said general picture. jason focused on the brush strokes that were the people of gotham while tim would go for gotham as a whole. what would be the best long term effective? what would it take to reach it?

i think by making tim more logic based in his compassion and is a good way to challenge bruce in a way that all the robins have before. its how that dynamic works, there has to be chemistry and that balance.

let him see this kid as a reflection of why he cant deprive himself from his heart despite how much it hurts seeing another little boy running around in a yellow cape when it should be his little boy still. that it hurts because he had someone to hurt over. have bruce mourning and grieving and impacted by jason's death (canonly he was rougher as batman because of it/emotionally withdrawn more) while also scared shitless that this kid is going to be next and he'll be making another father go through the same lost hes going through

it also allows tim more room for character development and to have a distinct factor instead of his cherry picked perfect traits and 'flaws' from the others before him. its still robin but hes so different from jason and as a result bruce has to actually confront his feelings and how jason taught/reminded him that he cant forget the people while waiting around and planning for the perfect big picture. that without the people, who cares if the city is saved? it acknowledges jasons life and death and honours jason beyond a perserved costume:

[ID: Robin telling Jason he's gotten too emotionally involved with a case due to not picking up on obvious signs of their convict, Felipe, being on cocaine. The next panel is Batman and Robin on a stakeout. Batman's internal narration reads, "Over the next three days we have a dozen opportunities to bust Felipe holding. But we hold off. I want to take out a part of the Senior Garzonas' operation when Felipe takes his fall. Robin doesn't like this idea." Additional note is that because of this, Felipe had time to intimidated the woman he raped into killing herself. END ID]

i know a lot of this is about jason and bruce instead but you cant ignore him or pretend he didnt happen. jason's death is was what gave birth to tim's existence (and capitalism but yknow). its going to impact him and the robin dynamic forever. its going to change bruce forever because he didn't want another robin. he didnt want someone else's kid. he wanted his son who was six feet under

people talk how tim is the robin that chose to be robin and to involve himself instead of the circumstances causing it. go heavier into that. its why he clings to that title and is an asshole to damian - because he thinks without that mantel - hes nothing. have him insecure and obsessive over it. have the obvious distance between him and how bruce was with the robins before him because they were his actual sons. you can love and care about someone but not see them as family. ESPECIALLY with tim's parents - who did love him but were still neglectful and how that'll make him insecure/grow a complex.

have tim having to learn to trust others and how to be vulnerable but still struggle. have him learning to not isolate as much and snapping at others when he does. have the conflict of tim saying its a sacrifice to help the greater good. hell, have him lean more into the mad scientist and invention route even, he did cloned his best fucking friend. i dont care what, just give him SOME personality beyond batman's lapdog and always being so perfectly imperfect that his few 'flaws' are polished and excused.

#in context its 3 am and my nose and eye are simultaneously bleeding as I type this #HOWEVER i finally had spoons to go through my inbox some to hopefully stop avoiding eye contact with it in shame #but just. yeah. #you cant erase jason out of the narrative because the narrative and batman's entire dynamic forever changed afterwards #and i think for any third robin jason's death should be very much felt. the narrative killed him and now he haunts it #itll impact everything and by contrasting more you can have a fun batman and robin dynamic still while making tim unique in his own way #and while actually acknowledging jason existed beyond a perserved costume (got my own issues with that) or shitty writing blaming him for #his own death. #does any of this make sense?? probably not but its fine i think u all expect mediocrity from me #company in the crypt #jason todd #tim drake #bruce wayne #meta #posts from the crypt

[bruce-waynes-parenting]

Robin! Jason Todd & Dick Grayson being nice to each other/knowing each other: a compilation

Okay so I dislike Batman fanon just as much as the next girlie, but I’ve noticed that recently there’s this idea that Dick and Jason interacting and being friendly/on good terms pre Jason’s death is fanon-y, or that Dick hated Robin!Jason and I gotta say that it is straight up untrue.

We’re Dick and Jason the closest? No. Did Dick like Jason at first? No, he was kind of a prick, but the majority of his resentment (not all, but most) was directed at Bruce. Dick and Jason ended up getting along and were at LEAST friends during the times we get to see them interact outside of their first meeting. Here are my panels:

Exhibit A:

Dick is being a bitch here (I also think that it’s interesting for Red Hood!Jason to maybe remember Dick as more of an angry person than other bat-heroes may see him, but that’s a post for another time). Not much to say about this one except yeah they did not get along to begin with. I do think that it’s interesting that he throws Batman in Jason’s face here.

Okay so here are some Nightwing: Year One panels and I have to say I adore this comic. Dick approved of Jason in his internal monologue and there’s some light-hearted teasing.

How could I make a Robin Jason and Dick post without the ski trip (?) Polaroid? I think this is really forgotten about a lot, and even though the art is horrifying to look at, it gives us more insight into Dick’s relationship with Jason while he was Robin. I really think that even if Dick was a distant somewhat brother figure to Jason, this panel shows that they at least liked each other to take a picture together (a picture that Dick labeled and kept!) while Jason was alive. And maybe even have gone on a trip together (though that is speculation) depending on what the context of this picture is.

These panels are a little funny to me because of Jason’s elf suit. But anyways, I do really like them. I think these show the “getting over it” idea, Dick burying the hatchet and moving on, and Jason understanding why Robin is important to Dick and even trying to find a different name to fight crime under. Dick telling Jason “it’s okay.” And passing on the torch telling Jason that he earned it. I love these panels.

I’m not really sure how many times Dick has given Jason his suit but there isn’t much more to say that wasn’t said in the last photo set—other than Dick giving Jason his number and the advice. (And specifically telling him that he’s available to talk)

These panels are good too, and solidify their friendliness while implying familial ties too. (Dick referring to Bruce as “the old man”) These also speak to Dick recognizing Jason’s skill and help with Dick’s rescue.

Lastly (for this post)…there’s this page. I really think that Dick’s reaction to Jason’s death does speak to their relationship. Albeit a distant one, it was positive for the majority of the time that Jason was Robin. I’ve seen people use this panel and claim that Dick is more so reacting to “someone he gave his mantle to” dying than to someone he felt close to, or even knew, but I have to disagree. Maybe they weren’t the closest, but Dick has every reason to react this way.

I’ve seen it said that Dick’s reaction to Jason’s death is the only evidence that they were friends (still legally brothers). But I really just do not buy it. I do think that Jason’s death became a guilt-well for Dick, but I do not think that his guilt is the only reason he reacted like this to Jason’s death; especially not with all of the evidence for the contrary right there in the source material.

Thanks u for coming to my TED talk

#Jason Todd #dick grayson #NOT a ship #nightwing #Robin #jason as robin #do not tag as a ship #thinkpost #panels #shove panels at everyone

[musiconanironingboard]

9 May 2022: Chapter and Verse, Bruce Springsteen. (2016 Columbia release of 1966-2012 recordings)

At 9:30 A.M. on May 9, I had jury duty in downtown Chicago. This is the fourth time I have been called to jury duty in the past 13 years, and three of them have been since 2014. I’ve been called twice during the pandemic. I don’t even want to reveal that I’ve only had to be on one jury; two times I went and sat there until I was dismissed and was never asked to be interviewed, and one of these four times I called the hotline the night before and the robot voice told me I didn’t have to show up at all. I feel like just talking about all of this will ensure another summons in my mailbox as soon as legally possible. Maybe it sounds like I’ve gotten off easy, but being summoned four times in 13 years is outrageous considering I know dozens of people who have never been summoned at all in their entire lives, including my eighty-something parents. In fact, I’m not sure that I know a single person who has actually sat on a jury other than myself! (Well, that’s not true. My partner at work gets called as much as I do, if not more, and surely she’s sat on a jury.) 

Anyhow, the mere notion of having to physically go and do this sets off all kinds of dread and anxieties for me, not least of which is getting downtown (or to whatever other far-flung courthouse they can make you go to) at the, for me, ungodly hour of 9:30 A.M. The robot voice told me the night before that anyone whose surname began with H through P (that’s me) had to report, and it all just filled me with dread. Another part of the dread involved missing work: sure, I take vacation days, but those are planned and desired. Missing crucial time on work projects is another thing. Of course I understand the civic duty involved, but again, can they call one of my other friends and take me off their speed dial? I dragged myself to the Daley Center downtown and was in place and reading my book by 9:30. Everyone, and there were probably 250 of us, got a number assigning us to a panel. I got #6. I had no idea how many panels there were. At 9:45 they announced that everyone on panel #2 had to line up to go into a courtroom to be interviewed. At 10:15 they called another panel, but jumped ahead to something wild like #34. By this time I was listening to headphones and continuing with my book and yearning deeply for the lunch hour we would be afforded at 11:30. At ten after 11 the microphone came on again and I feared my panel would be called, but the voice said “We have everyone we need for today, your jury duty is now fulfilled for one year and you are free to go.” I was so pleased. Excused before lunch! In 2014 when I went, there were also about 250 of us but I had to sit there until everyone had been picked but me and another guy and they didn’t let us go until 5 P.M.

As soon as I went to the food hall across the street from the courthouse and ate lunch, I went straight to the record store. Reckless has a tiny outlet in Chicago’s Loop and I don’t get there much. It’s often closed when I am there, so I was happy to have a chance to browse. And since I’d already arranged to miss work, after all the dread I’d felt I decided to treat myself to a few hours off downtown. 

Now that I’ve written the kind of personal essay ostensibly about an album that I used to scream at young Pitchfork writers for doing, let me get to the music: this compilation of Springsteen music was released to accompany his 2016 memoir Born to Run. I read the book when it came out, but for whatever reason I never felt like chasing this compilation. Out of 18 tracks, only 5 were previously unreleased, not a great ratio (even if some of them are pre-fame recordings from his early bands The Castiles and Steel Mill), and to paraphrase my brother’s hilarious statement about David Bowie after he realized he owned a zillion Bowie albums, “I’m not even a real Springsteen fan!” You wouldn’t know it, for I’ve religiously bought all of Springsteen’s albums, including his dreariest, most dreadful ones of the 21st century, and I’ve seen him live at least three times that I can recall. Sometime in the past couple years, another branch of Reckless got in a copy of Chapter and Verse, and it was a colored-vinyl edition originally released through Barnes and Noble. I get sick of colored vinyl and I am not fond of buying music from big-box stores, but when I saw that Reckless had one I thought it would be the perfect copy to buy: a limited, special one that I never even had to chase, it just fell into my lap. By the time I got over to the store to buy it, it was gone. Then on my chance visit to the Loop Reckless some years later, after escaping jury duty, I found another one in the new-arrivals bin. I am guessing there are people who frequent the vinyl department of Barnes and Noble when it’s gift-giving time, or maybe titles like this seem like good Father’s Day gifts, or something, and the recipient isn’t always enthusiastic. I don’t know why else two copies of this Barnes and Noble edition would pop up at the same chain in a relatively short period. I never see used copies of the regular, non-Barnes edition. Anyway, I was happy to find it. And I had to tell the jury-duty story, because this will forever be remembered as a jury-duty purchase.

Above are the front cover, hype sticker, and back cover. The top of the back cover is a bit banged up, but with the shrinkwrap slipped back on—amazingly, this used copy had its shrinkwrap opened but not damaged or gone—you don’t see the creases.

Below are both sides of the two inner sleeves (this is a double).

Next up are all four labels.

Last, here’s a shot of that tortoise-shell vinyl.

[longlistshort]

Currently on view at Bortolami is Tom Burr’s excellent multimedia exhibition. With new discoveries around every corner, the show keeps you engaged, at times even on an emotional level.

From the press release-

Once more Burr has assumed his dual role as artist and exhibition maker, relocating the act of making from the traditional studio space into the gallery. An architectural intervention of four walls defines the show, a deconstructed box whose contents have been scattered both in view and out of sight yet remain connected on levels of materiality, memory, biography, and history. Moving through the gallery, the viewer is directly confronted by Burr’s work, activating the artworks and the physical space created for them. As the interconnectivity of the different facets of the exhibition comes into view, not only here and now but in its connection to the entirety of Burr’s career, we begin to understand this as not merely an assortment of objects as artworks, but on a larger scale as a total artwork.

Four new wooden panels populate each makeshift wall, continuing the signature plywood sculptural series begun in the 1990s. Each painted a different color, the artist loosely utilizes the shipping crate motif, a point of interest for Burr. Adhering stainless steel and brass plates to each panel, the images portray the artist himself as well as his own simulation of stereotypical “faggy gestures,” as he refers to them, creating an intersection of public expectations of artistic sensibility, identity performance and exposure.

Also on view in the main gallery are a series of furniture-based sculptures. Set behind the walls, each work draws the viewer into the constructed architectural space as they grapple with themes of legacy, memory, and biography. Pulse utilizes various items once belonging to the “lounge” at Burr’s project space in Torrington, Connecticut—a disco ball, a couch, a lamp, a wool blanket — the disco ball being a relic from American Fine Arts, the legendary SoHo gallery run by Colin de Land where Burr exhibited throughout the 1990s and early 2000s. Accompanying the work is a wall text listing the various academic definitions of the word “pulse,” while the last line, a new addition by the artist, is a reference to the infamous shooting at the gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida, a signal to both the individual and communal meanings associated with the word. Similarly, the artist has gathered various items belonging to his father to create Johns (my father’s chest)—a chest of drawers, long johns, a metal storage box, and a handkerchief— evoking the same ideas of legacy and biography.

A new photo series entitled Capricornus I, II, III, and IV lines the outer walls of the main gallery. Depicting Burr in the three public bathrooms of his Torrington space, he is in the midst of various movements—lounging, laying down, reading. In a string of associations from Bruce Nauman to Francesca Woodman, as well as nods to his own past work, here the studio becomes a stage as Burr equates the everyday banal and artmaking.

Occupying the small gallery space, Floor Model (adolescent), is the most recent continuation of the artist’s series His Personal Effects, while in the office Burr has installed a series of new collages made in homage to Stefania Bortolami. The Visit, I, II, III depicts images of a visit by Bortolami to Burr’s space in Torrington, CT, as well as images of plant foliage from Burr’s seminal work, Construction of An American Garden, currently installed in the Torrington space. In the words of scholar and curator Blake Oetting “the body of the dealer emphasizes the commercial system that supports Burr’s work and translates it into exchange-value, a framework, he reveals, that often moves beyond the physical boundaries of the gallery.”

This exhibition closes 5/4/23.

#tom burr #bortolami gallery nyc #bortolami #nyc art shows #art #art show #mixed media #art installation #pulse nightclub #sculpture #photography #conceptual art

[adazzlingsakura]

Justice league(2011) #33

#I need more of this #Panels showing Bruce being an understanding person #This was just so sweet #Batman #Green lantern #power ring #bruce wayne #jessica cruz #lex luthor #justice league #dc comics #dc