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#QIN SU AND THE BOYS

littlesmartart · 4 months

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from this audio clip, for @guqin-and-flute's MBMSAM AU!

#mbmsam #tumodernau #jin zixuan #meng yao #qin su #mo xuanyu #qin su and the boys #the untamed

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cherubina · 7 months

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Hardly a day goes by without me thinking about what could have been if Jiang Cheng instead of Lan Xichen had been the object of Jin Guangyao’s undying affection.

Imagine. Jiang Cheng, new to leading a sect, new to being an uncle, new to being the only one left alive in his family, who only knows how to bite back and how to shield himself from all the pain through anger, comes to know sweet, accommodating Jin Guangyao who has just been accepted as his father’s son, proclaimed war hero but can never be good enough, who has to endure endless amounts of scorn and hatred and who has to act as his father’s vessel all the same. And suddenly they are facing each other over a screaming Jin Ling that they both rushed to see and they understand: We’re family now.

Imagine, one day Jiang Cheng finds Jin Guangyao, shaking from exhaustion, sitting in a corner of the gardens at Koi Tower. And even though he insists that he’s fine, that he does not need to be looked after, Jiang Cheng pulls him away to his rooms because this hardworking little weasel needs a rest. (Jiang Cheng used to know another weasel who was even more effective in brushing off his injuries than Jin Guangyao is and he will not have it again.)

Jin Guangyao is completely astonished by all that grumpy caretaking. Who does this Jiang Wanyin think he is, putting him to bed like a maiden? Because you are a fucking maiden, Xue Yang suggests. Unhelpful.

Time goes by and they develop a certain acquaintance? A closeness, even? They talk (bitch) about Jin Guangshan, Madame Jin, Lan Wangji, never Lan Xichen who Jin Guangyao still adores and Jiang Cheng is indifferent towards, Sect Leader Yao and basically everyone under the sun. And they like it. They like each other. They like taking care of their nephew together. Occasionally, Jiang Cheng will find himself feeling a weird warm sensation in his chest but he doesn’t linger on it. He only goes “Huh. Strange.” and thinks nothing of it. At one point, he will be the one catching Jin Guangyao’s hand and saying “Don’t be silly, there’s no need for these formalities here.” Jin Guangyao beams.

And is in despair. How could this happen? How could he fall in love with someone other than the girl his father had picked out for him? And it only adds one more thing to the long list of reasons why Jin Guangshan has to die.

When he finally is dead and Jin Guangyao is made leader of the Jin sect and Chief Cultivator all at once, Jiang Cheng comes to congratulate him. He stays until late at night and many cups of sweet wine later (Jiang Cheng has had many of them, that is. Jin Guangyao only had one or two and did he really? Or did he use them to water a nearby plant?) Jiang Cheng says, eyes sad and cloudy and serious “Why can’t I hate him, Jin Guangyao? Why can’t I condemn him, after all these years, after all that he did to my family? He was my family, dammit! Why do I keep his fucking flute under my bed like a fucking-“

Jin Guangyao thinks about this. He thinks about retrieving Chengqing from Lotus Pier and using it for his purposes. But he discards the idea, just like he discards all thoughts of ever harming Jiang Cheng. Ever. He takes the tall angry sect leader into his arms and holds him and lets him cry into his shoulder just like Jiang Cheng let him time and time again.

Sap, Xue Yang provides. Jin Guangyao doesn’t care.

And imagine, after many happy years (more or less), a certain demonic cultivator appears and it all comes down to Guanjin Temple. It is Sandu that pierces Jin Guangyao’s chest and it is Jiang Cheng who swears to stay behind with him, to endure anything that may follow.

But Jin Guangyao pushes him away and Wei Wuxian pulls his shidi away from death. Maybe Jiang Cheng screams that he doesn’t care, that he would have killed Nie Mingjue, Jin Guangshan, all of those people himself if Jin Guangyao had asked him. But it’s irreversible now. Jin Guangyao is dead, the Jin sect is finished and it’s Jin Ling’s task to rebuild it, just like Jiang Cheng rebuilt Lotus Pier many years ago (something like that at least.) Jiang Cheng will find a purpose in helping his nephew with that task and he might begin to think of something else occasionally, over time. But he will never get back those few years, a little domestic, a little fucked up but still their years.

Idk i just think about that sometimes yea

#ofc this au would also change A LOT with qin su and jin rusong out of the picture #but yeah #*throws this into the void and runs off* HAVE THIS CHRNGYAO NATION #we are a small but strong army i know #mdzs #mdzs meta #chengyao #jiang cheng #jin guangyao #xue yang #jin ling #wei wuxian #the boys can be happy not only apart but also TOGETHER suck on THAT haters #talk

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twistedappletree · 9 months

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Have any cute headcanons up share about how Jin Ling grew up with Qin Su, Jin Guangyao, and Jiang Cheng?

OK SO ✨🥺✨

I have so many thoughts about our precious baby peony in general but I definitely have some specific ‘bonding’ activities that I think these three would’ve shared with him.

• Jin Ling & Jin Guangyao

Catching tadpoles.

The reason why this is so specific is because I actually used to do this with my own uncle when I was a kid 💕 JGY would definitely take JL out to the ponds to play with, catch and release tadpoles together because JL was so enchanted by them and catching them was so satisfying. They’d name them together and even though JL came up with the silliest names (like Dumpling, Lily, Buttercup etc.), JGY would never make fun of him for it and would always tell him what perfect names they were.

• Jin Ling & Jiang Cheng

Martial arts.

JC would’ve been far more patient with baby JL and JL wanted to be like him so much that he’d try to copy every move and technique perfectly, kicking his little leg in the air and throwing his little punches. He’d try to keep his form smooth (though it was difficult because he was so excited to spend time with his jiujiu and he was very smol, balance is hard when you’re so smol 😭).

Sometimes the targets on the wing-chun were too high for JL to reach and he’d get discouraged, so JC would would occasionally ‘cheat’ to make him feel better by lifting him up so he could kick/punch the higher targets.

• Jin Ling & Qin Su

Jewelry and accessorizing.

It makes me so happy that JL canonically enjoys and wears pretty accessories, and I 100% headcanon that this was QS’s influence. She saw him take an interest in all of the shiny trinkets in her vanity room, so one day, she let him join while QS and her handmaidens put on her jewelry and accessories for the day and let JL try on anything he wanted.

Both QS and her handmaidens adored JL’s beautiful hair and would decorate it with all sorts of gorgeous headpieces, hair crowns, sparkly strings of golden beads and delicate chains, etc.

It’s something JL never stopped doing from that point on and he always has something pretty in his hair—most of his accessories were inherited by QS after her passing, which she definitely would’ve wanted him to have.

💛💛💛

#SO SORRY IT TOOK FOREVER TO ANSWER BTW #tysm for the cute ask this was so fun!!! 💕🥺🥺🥺💕#mdzs #the untamed #jin ling #jin guangyao #qin su #mo dao zu shi #mdzs thoughts #mdzs headcanons #jin rulan #jiang cheng #jiang wanyin #jin ling’s uncles #jin ling and his jiujiu #answered asks #baby boy #grandmaster of demonic cultivation

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peculiardollart · 1 year

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When you and all your secret half-siblings have a plot to murder your biological father but you’re still cute

Someday I will write the fic that this fit goes to but for now: Her.

#qin su #mdzs #the untamed #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #jin siblings #I'm gonna do the boys too obviously but she took Forever so for now I take a break

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leatherbookmark · 2 years

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i was wondering if reading mdzs in japanese (my third language, and i don’t even have half of the skill i have in english) wouldn’t be kind of... devoid of emotions, like a mandatory reading. but it’s not! perhaps precisely because i’m still (2 years after getting into cql! lol) emotionally attached to and invested in characters and events happening in the novel, i’m not only Feeling what i should be feeling as a reader but also determined to keep on reading!

on one hand i’m wondering why i never thought of it before, on the other -- before i probably wouldn’t be able to read it! i still need a dictionary app/website, but even if i don’t know many characters in a sentence, with this book i can at least figure out what’s going on, more or less.

but also :’( wwx tells bicao that qin su chose death because of the information bicao told her, and bicao starts talking but sect leader yao Fucking Interrupts her and i feel this is such a fucking mdzscore scene. it has everything! wwx noticing things others overlook, women who can barely say a word before men take their chance of speaking away, the mob arguing that who cares about the facts, are you gonna defend the villain?... DEEP SIGH

and once again a dry lol @ fandom deciding to take wwx’s side at all times but not when he’s squinting at the “everything everywhere always is jgy’s fault” song and dance

#granted wwx isn't a fan of jgy either. in fact he ends up being pretty fucking pissed at him! not to mention actively hiding the truth he's #seen when doing empathy so that lxc doesn't feel too compassionate for him! but wwx contains multitudes and its another thing the fandom #loses on when they insist he was a poor little meow meow who's never done anything wrong #and 'should bicao have told qin su' is a very interesting question! unfortunately it's not one that's easy to discuss w the 'jgy evil' camp #anyway!!! i'll be leaving soon so i'll pick up the novel when i get back #but also something that made me laugh at myself: the 4th volume is actually a package set of the volume itself and a booklet of the #extras. BUT NOT ALL OF THEM. just four; intrusion + iron hook + lotus pod + yunmeng (dream come true?)#and i was holding this little booklet like WHERE. IS 悪友. WHERE are my boys!!!#(the boys were in the main volume) (i don't know why they decided to separate the extras like that but hey)#shrimp thoughts

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labyrynth · 2 years

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thinking about trying to make an ace attorney-style investigation/trial game based on mdzs

theoretically would follow plot from wwx’s resurrection, but slightly canon divergent* to get a phoenix wright style emphasis on “no, what’s the whole truth?” …which is to say that jgy actually gets a chance to plead his case

*why is this canon divergent, you ask? because we’re pretending that wwx and lwj actually care about the concept of justice (and not just when it makes them feel nice) and try to keep jgy from dying instead of going “don’t listen to him/he should be silenced”

tbh mdzs actually fits the AA formula pretty well? featuring huaisang as the “twist villain” (not specifically as a Villain but as The Witness whose testimony winds up being highly suspicious and/or full of holes, where it later comes out that they have ulterior motives, and wind up getting the “true face revealed” moment—you know how AA does it) and like six different cases from years ago that all wind up being relevant

i kind of want wwx to play defense (maybe with jin ling as assistant?) but this leaves the question of who the theoretical prosecution would be…lwj i guess? cough jc JUST to play off of franziska’s whip animations

some things would have to be modified slightly to fit the format, and i would probably stick mostly to canon, though i might flesh some things out if canon doesn’t contradict it and if there’s fair reasoning to lead to that conclusion (e.g. nmj broke out of his tomb, jgy did not break in; jgy claims to have killed individuals that were clearly not killed by him, ergo this is a feeling of responsibility, not a confession to any particular action)

in any case: i know that renpy exists, though i’ve never used it…but i imagine the first thing that would need to happen anyway is mapping out events, interactions, and evidence.

if anyone has thoughts or wants to make suggestions or just talk at me about like an AA/mdzs mishmash, go for it 👀👀 (please do, actually)

#mdzs talk #i just wanna see jgy get a chance #and huaisang get his due #seriously the number of people that seem to think that huaisang was not only pursuing justice #but was JUSTIFIED?? in everything he did??#he dug up dirt about a woman who has been dead for years and aired the dirty laundry she AND her daughter committed suicide over??#desecrated the body of an innocent woman for absolutely no reason but spite #not to mention he drove mxy (and arguably qin su) to suicide??#he got the whole mo family killed #and there was NO guarantee that the ritual would work or that wwx would stick around #or that wwx would give a shit!#and all of the monks at the temple!#huaisang got so many people killed and endangered so many more #and he didn’t give a shit about collateral damage #so uhh yeah! ya boy deserves to get Called Out for that #(‘well jgy did that to nmj!!! it’s fair that he does it to meng shi!!!’ uh huh sure #except that meng shi wasn’t a terrifyingly violent fierce corpse so intensely out for blood that even CUT UP he was still killing with ease)#(and that was after being dead for years)

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wifiwuxians · 1 year

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@animeluver1798 i just chose jiaojiao at random for a laugh LOL but i can't see xxc ever reciprocating though i CAN see him being like aw you're just some grown ass kid. let me nurture you (which xy fucking hates until he doesn't) and suddenly he has a family and new clothes which isn't a spouse and 3 kids but is far less stressful and far more desired. again the humor is in the fact that xy never means it and has absolutely 0 romantic feelings for anyone so a spouse and 3 kids is not something he wants in the first place

#I just like putting that boy in situations #But yeah it's gonna be tricky if he's killed the changs. Though some people are into that #And some people don't mind so much (Xun)#However if I did have to pair him off with a canon character to have a kid with #It would beeeeeeeee #👁️👁️👁️👁️👁️ Qin Su

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littlesmartart · 5 months

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aaaaand because I love you guys, you can have some runner up art too - jin sibs!

so a while back @justkeeptrekkin and I were discussing potential ideas for what a sequel to their amazing xiyao spy AU Beg, Bite, Kiss might look like, and since it's unlikely to get written now I thought I'd share some... I guess you could call it concept art!

essentially, the three eldest Jin sibs would team up to rescue their newly-discovered little brother Xuanyu from the clutches of the remains of the Wen corporation, who want to use his DNA to access the dangerous experimental tech in the Jin vault! it's very much a "retired spies come back for one last job and this time it's personal" situation.

#jin sibs #qin su and the boys #meng yao #jin guangyao #jin zixuan #qin su #mo xuanyu #tumodernau #the untamed

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latimeria-fell-from-heaven · 2 years

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hello lati ^^ I just started playing mystic messenger today and zen kinda..

hi hi mistu!

unfortunately i have yet to play mm bc midterms are kicking my ass, but ngl zen kinda gives me a butler vibe especially with how he ties his hair back,, he reminds me of lucien from mlqc but less sus and more pretty boy vibes hehe,,

#lati speaks #*has flashbacks to lucien and qin yi*#i can never get over the sus boys that papergames gave us

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little-smartass · 4 months

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you're Qin Su - you're the daughter of a minor sect leader, and during the war you're rescued by a kind, handsome, clever young man. after the war he's recognised by his father, the leader of one of the most powerful sects in the jianghu, and you decide to try and persue him as a match. he's ameanable - and though it is definitely you doing most of the chasing, you don't mind, as he's very polite and respectful and seems to like you very much! this seems like a perfect match! you two decide to consumate your relatonship to force your parents' hands.

it works! after only have sex once you're pregnant! you get married and everything is wonderful! except... now he won't kiss or touch you, let alone have sex, and seems uncomfortable even sharing a bed. but... he's still kind and sweet and respectful to you, so you try not be too hurt about it. maybe he'll relax over time.

he spends a lot of time with his sworn brother, but the sworn brother is probably the nicest person in the world and your husband doesn't really have many friends, so you don't mind. in fact, you're really pleased that he has the sworn brother to support him! they probably touch each other more than your husband touches you, and he probably spends more time with his sworn brother than he spends with you, but he still treats you with affection and respect, so you don't really feel like you can complain. you're just happy he's happy!

and then the baby is born, and it's a boy! you've given him an heir! it's perfect and you're so excited, because surely this baby is something the two of you can really bond over together and you can become close again-

and then he names your son as an obvious deliberate reference to his sworn brother.

like. what other conclusions can you really draw, at this point??? I am pretty confident Qin Su believed her husband was gay.

#xiyao #qin su #jin guangyao #lan xichen #the untamed #AND WAS SHE WRONG #I mean yes. I think JGY is bisexual not gay. but in spirit... like... no she was not wrong.

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symphonyofsilence · 1 year

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does Jin Guangyao play a villainous role in Wei WuXian’s story? yes. but is he also the Narrative’s special boy? also, yes.

I don’t remember the post, but the fact that Wei Wuxian, and by extinction, the narrative sympathizes with Jin Guangyao has already been brought up. He draws a comparison between himself and JGY when the crowd suddenly turns against JGY in Lotus Pier and wants WWX to deal with him, and again when the other Sect Leaders led by Sect leader Yao assume that the Guanyin statue is made to resemble JGY himself ‘cause he’s a narcissist, and when people are saying nasty things about JGY in a tavern after his death.

but another way in which the narrative sympathizes with JGY is that every time JGY is shown doing a shitty thing, it’s immediately followed by him being shown in a situation in which he is a victim, or has done something good.

he paralyzes Qin Su after she finds out some horrible truths about him and hides her in the creepy room where WWX finds JGY’s sworn brother’s head? A chapter or an episode after that we see him being trash-talked and cast out by other Nie soldiers when they’re drinking the water he brought, while he’s doing thrice the work they’re doing. we see him cleaning the battlefields and helping the commoners after battles, we see him voluntarily do the work of the servants as a deputy general when they lack staff, and pour people tea, while they rudely clean their cups when they take it from his hands (which NMJ does nothing about), we see him loyally arguing with LXC that he can't leave NMJ for his father’s sect after all NMJ has done for him, and learn that he has saved LXC. CQL shows him in his Meng Yao Era more. We see him repeatedly receive scorn when all he gives others is curtsey and smiles, we see beforehand the Nie Captain be an absolute bitch to him so I'm sure nobody in the audience regretted his loss, but even then we immediately get that jumping in front of NMJ and taking a stab to the chest to save him, and the teary banishment scene that cancels the "guy is now officially a scheming murderer" out.

He's being a bitch to NMJ in the Nightless City? He kills Wen Ruohan & turns out that he has been bravely spying for the Sunshot campaign all this time and they owe him their victory. But even then, he apologizes to NMJ, kneels down, and surrenders himself.

He's protecting Xue Yang? You have him explaining to NMJ why he can't go against his father's wishes, and how he's scared of everything and everyone because he was never given the luxury of safety, status & power, so he can practice that power freely. In the end, NMJ offends his mother and kicks him down the stairs (which he's well aware is a trauma for JGY). Which honor-bound ancient man wouldn't have killed the man who disrespected his mother and kicked him down the stairs? What would have NMJ done had this been done to him? But even then, in the book, the narrative does even more to make JGY sympathetic, LXC comes to NMJ to calm him down, and he says that JGY's in a difficult situation right now. His stepmother beats him & his father doesn't listen to anything he says anymore. Otherwise, he wouldn't have talked back to NMJ. & after that, NMJ's qi deviation happens when he drops eaves on this conversation between LXC & JGY:

I mean if you've tried to murder him thrice, shoved him down the stairs, & called him a whoreson, taken any opportunity to scold him, & you don't like it when he talks back to you, at least let him talk behind your back. He's not even lying or being disrespectful or anything.

He retaliates against WWX & LWJ’s attack by showing WWX as a villain and the way he has killed NMJ comes to light? a few chapters later WWX is surprised that JGY hasn’t visited LXC to demand a search but to tell him that he has prevented everyone from searching the CR and thinks it’s best if LXC, whenever it’s convenient for him opens the doors of the CR so JGY can get this search over with and shut the other sects up. And reassures him that he won’t let LWJ’s reputation be tarnished in any way. (At the stairs of Jinlintai, JGY knew fully well that LWJ was doing what he was doing because he was in love with WWX, as we learn at the Guanyin temple, but he loudly suggested that LWJ is being deceived in front of the crowd to save LXC's brother reputation.) The Donghua even has a wartime flashback from a young Meng Yao saving LXC, feeding him, hiding him, washing his clothes, getting beaten up by the Wen soldiers to keep LXC safe, and even then bringing back food for him with a smile.

He takes everyone hostage, twice (his hostages are children the first time) and is at the peak of his villain moment? You have the whole Guanyin temple thing happening. (which, personally for me, was what really elevated him from an interesting character to my poor little mew mew in my eyes.)

When JGY kneels down, WWX feels uncomfortable. He feels embarrassed on his behalf:

the same effect of inducing pity & sympathy for him is achieved in the show by somber music swelling in this scene, reaction shots, slow-mo, and a wide-shot of everyone in the temple as JGY kneels down to make him look especially small, while almost 2/3 of the shot is of the candles of the Guyanin temple. in the exposition scene when LXC kneels down to hear JGY out, the statue of Guanyin is between them. THE LOCATION OF ALL OF JGY TRAGIC EXPOSITIONS IS A GYANYIN TEMPLE! The temple of the bodhisattva of mercy who is considered to be the physical embodiment of compassion!

And the sympathetic reaction shots when he talks about JGS continue throughout the scene.

then we learn that he had to marry Qin Su because she was already pregnant and he didn’t want QS & JRS to have his and his mother’s fate and that the reason they had to rush things through like this and conceive a child was that JGS might have further caused problems for their marriage because he really disliked his son. and that if a political fall-out happened between Jin & the Qin clan, JGY would get the burn of it. (still a shitty act, but you can’t help but understand where he’s coming from & pity him), he goes on about his father kicking him down the stairs of Jinlintai on his birthday while celebrating JZX’s birthday, we learn about his childhood in the brothel, about JGS saying that he could save Meng Shi but he didn’t ‘cause she would be too much trouble, and that their son wasn’t worth mentioning, we see JGY & SMS deep connection, the show gives us some very good Xiao Shushu & A-Ling moments, & even though it’s been always clear & is especially clear during the whole Guanyin temple scene, we see truly see the depth of love, respect, and loyalty JGY has toward LXC.

We see him in the Villainous Friends chapter telling Xue Yang that he can vandalize people's shops and restaurants for no reason, only under the condition that he doesn't wear the Jin uniform. But it's immediately followed by the mention of the bruise on his head given to him by his stepmother because she can't vent her anger on her cheating husband, who JGY has to retrieve from brothels every night to ensure his safe stay in Jinlintai for another day. We see him massacre the He sect, and right after that, he goes to retrieve his father from the brothel and hears those awful things and you can't help but sympathize with him.

Because what is really important is that you understand Jin Guangyao. There are about 14 chapters in the book and 4 episodes in the show of JGY explaining himself while crying on the floor because it's less about "Jiggy eVIL" & more about look what the society who turned his back on him & his mother when they needed their help, and sneered at them when they tried to improve their situation, and never forgave JGY for being born has done to this man to make him do such horrendous deeds. (And his sword's name is Hensheng. Meaning "hate to be born". They made him never forgive himself for being born either.)

So by saying that X & Y has happened to JGY, and so what he does is for self-preservation, nobody's JUSTIFYING his genocides, & nobody's denying that JGY had a choice in everything he did. Even if his other option was to accept his place, sit down, shut up, and suffer in silence, NOT murdering a whole sect that includes children by doing experiments on them is the better option. The point is that it's not the point. JGY's atrocities are only means in the story to tell the cautionary tale of a classist, cruel society. The things that JGY has gone through cannot be erased from the conversations because "JGY EvIl. Periodt." The Narrative doesn't want the reader to do that! It's specifically structured to put the reason JGY's got to this point on the forefront every time he does a crime. The fight with NMJ's fierce corpse ends as quickly as it begins. The Climax of the story is mostly JGY's monologues. 14 chapters of monologues cannot be dismissed as JGY gaslighting LXC & shedding crocodile tears.

in a story that has Wei WuXian as a protagonist, and literally starts with the monster the society has made of him through rumors and has this theme going on through the rest of the story, especially with JC, and baseless accusations are the first thing that happens when JGY's secrets are out in the Lotus Pier, and then ends with society making a monster out of JGY after his death through rumors when Sect Leader Yao speculates that the statue's face is modeled after JGY himself (which WWX especially comments on), and in the tavern when people made such crude remarks that even those who were participating in the conversation felt uncomfortable, I think it's clear what and who the real villain is.

MXTX could have written people talking about literally any real atrocity that JGY has done, but instead, they talk about what he hasn’t done and read the worst out of his every action in life.

And actually, with everything that JGY has been through, he’s not even the worst case that could come out of his situation. He did have good intentions. For all his genocides, unlike Xue Yang, he didn't actually want to see the world burn. He did help the innocent common folk. He helped them during the sunshot campaign, and with the watchtowers, he fought against systematic corruption, and he treated everyone with respect. He rescued LXC and QS. We don’t know how many others he has personally saved. It's that the means he had to use to have the power to help the poor was incredibly dirty because he was playing an unfair game that was especially designed against him. (I'm not saying helping the poor was his only objective when he tried to gain his father's approval and a secure place in Jinlintai for himself. Though it's sad that he had to fight for these things at all.) The best he could honorably do was be NMJ's deputy general, which didn't save him from being bullied and people cleaning the cups they took from his hands. He knew that if he tried to help the innocent without having the political power to do that, he would end up like WWX. But what he didn’t know was that he would end up like that if he, unlike WWX, played by the rules of the game and compromised his morals anyway. There was no winning for people like them.

Dismissing the good that JGY has done, the real desire he had for helping the poor, and what he’s been through cheapens the character, cheapening JGY’s character to a one-dimensional Marvel villain, and dismissing the commentary that he represents on society as a whole is a disservice to the story. And that’s a crime cause the story is great.

his fall from grace, the heinous acts he had to commit to find himself the slightest bits of safety, security, and respect wouldn’t be that much of a tragedy if he didn’t want to be good and do good for people.

Then there is JGY's death and the framing of it. Here is a wonderful analysis by @sapphicdalliances of why his death wasn't justice and that was the point, how he died because of an act he didn't commit, and here are great analysis by @thatswhatsushesaid & @crithir about how his death is described as a gut-wrenching horrible scene framed through his horrified nephew & ward's eyes, both in the book and in the show, how it didn't bring the Nie brothers any closure either, and how through the lenses of LXC and JL, and by JC’s & WWX’s reaction we see his death as a tragedy.

His death is because of a dishonorable trick. His last act in life, pushing LXC away is an act of love and of forgiveness. In the CQL before that, he pushes Jin Ling out of danger, too.

As said in the aforementioned posts, after it, we don't see a victorious Nie Huaisang or Wei WuXian. In fact, neither of them is victorious.

WWX, and by extension, the narrative blames NHS for his scheming & risking innocent lives. WWX is especially appalled by NHS' treatment of Meng Shi's body. He points out that JGY, being a big liar with a considerable criminal record, will be forever accused of lying, no matter what. While he immediately after brings JGY's last genuine act toward LXC as proof that JGY couldn't have been lying.

In the CQL, he straight-up calls NHS the devil with the coldest tone he's ever had towards NHS.

NHS for his part doesn't seem victorious either.

Dare I say he even looks like despite years of scheming he was not ready for it when JGY pushes Shuoyue deeper inside his own chest. (Who would he be acting for at that moment? Nobody's looking at him. And he’s sweating!)

And I think there's a "no, he didn't" in his last "I don't know." To LXC (at least in the show) when he's insistently asked whether JGY was going to attack LXC or not and he insistently answers "I don't know". It's a confirmation without confirmation.

And then in, IMHO, one of the most beautiful and nuanced scenes, NHS finds A-Yao's hat, in the book, he bends down, picks it up, and quietly goes away (and that's the last we see of Nie Huaisang), in the show he wipes off the dust on it, and his hand finally gets bloodied, literally & metaphorically despite trying his best to not do his dirty work himself. And we get a flashback of A-Yao's childhood that I always assumed we're seeing through NHS because maybe JGY had told him that story. Not only does the order of the scene, combined with NHS' deep in thought look seem like it but also NHS cleans JGY's hat when in that memory A-Yao's mom tells him that he needs to take good care of his hat.

And that scene is especially beautiful because the show went out of its way to show their close relationship pre-time skip. And we see NHS keep A-Yao's principal by cleaning his hat when JGY himself is too dead to do that. Even when the reason for his death is NHS himself. And by NHS getting his hands bloodied while cleaning the hat, and staring at it with a deep, nuanced look, that combination of care & hatred is shown in that scene.

I think he feels empty. He's spent years after years planning this thing. It was his only drive. Now it's over. And it wasn't a grand, victorious moment. It just...happened. and it was something that needed to happen, in his eyes.

And he did love his san-ge for a long, long time before the betrayal came to light for him. And then he hated him for a long, long time. But at that moment with JGY's bloodied hat in his hand? I think that's the moment when love and hatred have both run their passionate course and they've finally reached each other in the middle and collided and ran out of strength and intensity and separate, clear meaning and they just take their exhausted leave together, leaving only a trace behind.

And most prominently we see a devastated LXC and JL. We see Jin Ling's flashback of when his Xiao Shushu gave him his spiritual puppy. We see him being the only one who could cheer JL up when he was down for days.

We see JL choosing to keep loving him despite everything.

His loss is felt and the memory of his good deeds keeps coming back in JL's narrative: