#Rob Thomas

[hopeymchope]

No hardcore fandom has ever died so quickly and so completely as Veronica Mars. This is the story of its murder.

They should study Veronica Mars in Hollywood. I'm serious. It's an incredible story of how to go from "loud, passionate fanbase with its own fandom name that campaigns and advocates constantly for it" to "absolutely zero fucking interest" damn near OVERNIGHT with just ONE epically terri-bad decision.

If you weren't there, you don't understand: From 2007 to 2014, the fandom — the "Marshmallows," as they called themselves — were everywhere in the Internet's geek spaces, my friends. They routinely beat the drum about the series' three seasons and its excellence, lamented its cancellation, pushed others to give the show a try, and always - ALWAYS - proudly and loudly called for the series to be revived.

FULL DISCLOSURE/CONFESSION: I've not even watched that much Veronica Mars, frankly... ? Yeah, I'm sorry! it does seem pretty good from like the four-or-five hours I've experienced firsthand. I just never took the time to sit down with it. Regardless, I find fandoms and their dynamics — both how they operate internally and how they display to others externally — deeply fascinating. And I honestly find them easier to study from the outside than the inside. Like, if I'm IN a fandom, I'm more likely to stay in my corner and ignore places that seem negative. But being on the outside lets me just... absorb what's out there, looking into every forum without judgment. It's like studying pop-culture sociology or something? And it helps that I'm very close to some serious(-ly burnt) Marshmallows. It makes it so much easier to find and absorb the gamut of the fandom.

Besides: There is NO fandom story I've ever seen that's anything like what happened to Veronica Mars and the Marshmallows.

(Time to insert a brief explainer for the uninitiated: Veronica Mars was a TV series that aired from 2004-2007 on the now-deceased UPN network wherein Kristen Bell played the titular character, a high school girl whose single dad was a private detective in the fictional community of Neptune, California. She grew up working "unofficially" as his assistant, which meant that she herself was effectively a teenage private detective.

The three core elements of the series were: 1) Veronica investigating each week's big mystery with plenty of quips and snark, 2) Watching Veronica's various relationships develop and shift, with most of the focus given to a) her relationship to her father and b) Her romantic pursuits (which began as the Veronica/Duncan/Logan triangle before eventually becoming focused on the slow-burn, off-on Veronica/Logan love story), and 3) The gradual development of that season's "mytharc" — the overarching BIG MYSTERY that doesn't get resolved or wrapped until the season finale. So it went over the course of two seasons that took place in high school and the third, shorter season that was at the start of Veronica's collegiate career.)

Just how big and how passionate were the Marshmallows? WELL! When series creator Rob Thomas (not the Matchbox 20 guy) and star Kristen Bell announced the Kickstarter campaign for the Veronica Mars movie in March 2013, it achieved its heretofore-unprecedented goal of TWO MILLION GODDAMN DOLLARS within less than 12 hours. At that time, it was the biggest Kickstarter goal to ever succeed — and certainly the fastest to reach that kind of height. Fans fell OVER themselves to pay out for it. Hell, my own significant other was DEEP in the tank for VM at the time and invested enough to get multiple t-shirts as backer rewards as well as a disk copy of the movie when it eventually came home.

And AFTER the movie hit in 2014? It was thankfully beloved and embraced! The once-teenage characters were adults who were actually out living on their own and working for a living, but the fandom had grown up with them, so it wasn't like they were begging for them to stay young students. They embraced Adult Veronica and her new adventure. The fandom rejoiced loudly and continued to be all over the geek side of the Internet... where they, of course, still wanted more. Sure, there were new novels in the aftermath (which were written by the creator of the series), but most of the Marshmallows were calling for more movies or a streaming revival.

And then, at long last... season four was actually announced. And there was much (premature) rejoicing yet again.

Yes, Veronica Mars returned for a fourth season on Hulu in 2019. It was just eight episodes, and it was heavily centered on one season-long mystery instead of sprinkling that amongst a bunch of smaller ones, but it would still feature the same ol' Veronica. They promised a new, more "adult" mystery/investigation plus a strong focus on Veronica and Logan's love story.

New Hulu purchased the rights to the first three seasons and hyped up its presence on the platform while marketing the return for the new run. The marketing team played up the most popular quips from the show's history plus put out TONS of stuff centered on the Logan/Veronica ship to pump up the fans.

The season was dropped all at once using the classic Netflix "binge" model in July 2019. And then... afterwards?

There was a brief explosion of LOUD RAGE from the Marshmallows at what series creator Rob Thomas had to done to burn and spite the fandom and ruin his own goodwill.

SPOILERS FOR SEASON 4: See, at the end of the movie, Veronica and Logan finally entered into a long-term relationship. In season four, they've been dating for years, and Logan proposes marriage. But of course there has to be drama/obstacles: In this case, Veronica isn't sure she's ready to marry... or capable of being in a marriage. Ah, but of course she eventually realizes how much Logan means to her. The two are married, and, in the season finale... Logan is killed by a car bomb in the penultimate scene. The final scene is a flashfoward to a year later, where Veronica leaves Neptune alone.

For most fandoms, that'd be a memorable point of pain. A big ol' speed bump that ultimately throws some people off the bus, leaving only the die-hards. But the fact that fans had been invested in this relationship for literally 15 years and that Hulu (and creator Rob Thomas) had heavily marketed the new season as being a big romantic event for the ship... it was too much. Unlike the aftermath of the Star Wars sequels, there was no lingering group of die-hard fans who were open to whatever was next — at least no significant one. I did some Googling and could only find TWO people who still wanted another season.

Funnily enough? Critics LOVED this. Hell, Vanity Fair infamously penned an editorial about how Veronica Mars had "finally grown up" with this finale. I suppose all the other murders and deaths and drug overdoses and r*pe weren't "mature" enough before now for... some... reason. (The same editorial also featured the author openly hating on Veronica ever being in a relationship because it causes "arrested development" and declaring that the movie -- which was acclaimed by both critics AND fans alike, I remind you -- was a lame dud. So. The writer must be a reeeaaaal fun person.)

But a series doesn't live based on critical acclaim, as it turns out. The fandom was murdered overnight. "Marshmallows" stopped appearing in geek spaces online entirely. No one expressed interest in seeing the next season or the next movie. The constant flow of fan AMVs on YouTube and fanfics on AO3 dried up to nothing or damn nearly so.

Since 2019 ? Nothing. Chirping crickets. An intensely dedicated fandom of 12 years was just... vaporized.

I've never seen anything like it before OR since.

That's why it's so fucking fascinating.

So what went wrong?

Creator Rob Thomas was adamant about two things: ONE, the series was intended to be a noir show, which meant there couldn't be any happiness for its protagonist. And TWO, the death of Logan was necessary to evolve and grow the series.

Thomas thought that having Veronica in a relationship would be holding her back, and that a marriage would absolutely kill the series and leave her stagnant. It never even occurred to him that marriage isn't the end of a character's life and growth. It never occurred to him that plenty of drama can be had AFTER someone is married, or that development/growth could be that the characters mature enough to be capable of maintaining a committed relationship. Thomas' view of his own universe was so myopic that he couldn't conceive of any possible way that Veronica could still be a private detective involved in life-threatening investigations AND be married at the same time. Futhermore, he felt that fans just wanted Veronica to become a pregnant housewife, which is about as far from what Marshmallows were after as you can get without straight-up killing Veronica and/or Logan. He managed to do the only thing wronger than what he wrongly thought was their insistence.

On top of the above, Rob Thomas only viewed "noir" as a vehicle for total fatalism... despite the fact that many of the most famous noir stories are cynical and full of moral ambiguity, but they still feature a positive outcome. The Big Sleep still has the protagonist get the girl. The Set-Up arguably ends with the happiest possible ending in spite of the beating the hero receives.

Perhaps most importantly? Despite Thomas own insistence that Veronica Mars was always "noir," the majority of both TV critics and fans did not think that designation ever truly applied. I suspect that's the reason why Thomas decided to go as dark and fatalistic as possible: He wanted to be noir, and he was being told that he wasn't. So he went so far into noir that he killed his own most popular property.

He was adamant that it was the only way for the series to grow. But as it turns out, it was instead the only way for the series to permanently end. Without that season four finale, a passionate group of fans would still be begging for more. With it? It's over. Nobody fucking cares now.

That's kind of amazing.

#veronica mars #rob thomas #fandom #dead fandom #marshmallows #burnt marshmallows #fandom histories #the death of veronica mars #the day veronica mars died #gifs #television gifs #tv gifs #veronica mars gifs #vmars

[zetterbabe]

Closest to the pin, Hockey Edition 🎯

#sidney crosby #travis konecny #matthew tkachuk #brady tkachuk #jack hughes #jack eichel #nazem kadri #adam fox #anze kopitar #anders lee #mario ferraro #rob thomas #troy terry #I tried to get everyone lol #hockey stuff #*xp

[chrissysky]

Veronica Mars characters with some of their TV Tropes.

Note that Dick should actually be "Heart of Gold, Dumb of Ass" but that's not actually on their TV tropes page... But know in my heart, that's what it is.

and lily should be "laura palmer".

#veronica mars #my edits #kristen bell #jason dohring #enrico colantoni #rob thomas

[veronicamarsconfessions]

The Unfortunate Pattern Of TV Shows Lying To Fans

Showrunner Dick Wolf is in hot water this week with fans of Law & Order: SVU on Twitter. Digging into the complaints, the current outcry isn’t really a surprise. Take a ship that’s been working on a slow burn for almost a quarter of a century, add in some bait-and-switch advertising, and you have a perfect storm.

While it’s true that showrunners have the right to run their shows how they see fit – and while fandom teasing is pretty much a staple of the medium – no fan appreciates being lied to. And there is very much a difference between teasing fans and lying to them.

Shippers of Elliot Stabler (Christopher Meloni) and Olivia Benson (Mariska Hargitay) have been hanging in through thick and thin for almost 25 years. Their dedication seemed like it was about to pay off, as promos for the most recent episode teased that this couple might finally – finally – kiss. Ultimately, not only did a kiss not happen but the shot featured in the promo – with Benson caressing Stabler’s face – was cut from the episode entirely.

Things happen in editing shows, and sometimes things get cut. So is this a case of “teasing fans” or lying to them? After almost a quarter of a century, it’s hard not to feel like this isn’t the latter.

Zoey’s Extraordinary Playlist showrunner Austin Winsberg earned the fandom’s ire in the show’s second season when he promised the end of the dreaded love triangle. Only to very much keep the love triangle alive. Now, in this case, this was a case of the showrunner genuinely misunderstanding what “love triangles” mean in fandom spaces. He seems to have interpreted “fans hate love triangles” as “fans hate arcs in which a character can’t or won’t decide between two romantic prospects.”

Failing to realize that “making one choice and then later making another choice, and then later going back to the first choice” is, indeed, being unable to decide. Still, the promise of “no more love triangle” was followed pretty quickly by the return of the love triangle leaving fans feeling intentionally misled.

The case of Zoey’s Extraordinary Playlist is a good argument for shows to have fandom consultants for showrunners who have probably not engaged in fandom spaces the way fans do and thus may mistake how things will be perceived. Winsberg professed the entire problem to have been a massive misunderstanding on his end. Perhaps that’s why fans of the series were willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and successfully fought to save the show from premature cancellation.

Veronica Mars showrunner Rob Thomas got into similar trouble for handling the show’s last season. The Logan/Veronica ship (LoVe) had been a major focus of the series and subsequent movie. It was no wonder, then, that they were outraged when the fourth season ended with Logan’s death. Adding insult to injury, Rob Thomas explained the decision by basically saying that Veronica is “boring” when she’s happy in love and not traumatized and that he wanted to completely change the concept of the show moving forward.

Veronica Mars was a particularly special case of showrunners lying to the fan base because of the unusual nature of his salvation. Fans – a large number of them LoVe shippers – had directly been responsible for funding the Kickstarter that got the film sequel to the prematurely canceled series green-lit. Which led to the show’s subsequent pickup on Hulu. And Thomas knew how invested these fans – fans he directly called upon to resurrect his series – were heavily invested in LoVe. There was even an entire series of promos featuring Kristen Bell and Jason Dohring reading LoVe fanfiction leading up to the fourth season.

Teasing fans is a natural thing for shows to do. It keeps fans engaged. It creates buzz. But, as evidenced by Veronica Mars, when fans feel like teasing has become lying, they may not stick around to give the show another chance.

#Veronica Mars #Rob Thomas #Logan Echolls #Law & Order: SVU #Elliot Stabler #Olivia Benson #Elliot x Olivia #Logan x Veronica #Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist #Jason Dohring #Dick Wolf #L&O SVU

[hit-song-showdown]

Year-End Poll #51: 2000

[Image description: a collage of photos of the 10 musicians and musical groups featured in this poll. In order from left to right, top to bottom: Faith Hill, Santana and Rob Thomas, Santana and The Product G&B, Joe, Vertical Horizon, Destiny's Child, Savage Garden, Lonestar, Matchbox Twenty, Toni Braxton. End description]

More information about this blog here

Welcome to the new millennium. A good year for country, ballads, and country ballads. Alternative rock is starting to appear more in the pop charts, and the genre will soon come to define the sound of rock for this decade (along with post-grunge, which will come later). Latin pop and rock is also growing in popularity, with artists like Ricky Martin, Enrique Iglesias, and the mainstream resurgence of Carlos Santana. This sound would also have a lot of influence over pop and R&B songs by non-Latin artists. Not coincidentally, this is also the year the Latin Grammy Awards was created. These genres do have there distinct sounds and characteristics, but a lot of American music publications at the time used the labels to describe "any pop or rock song in Spanish". I don't think I could do the nuances of this topic justice, so for more of that I'd recommend reading Rock the Nation: Latin/o Identities and the Latin Rock Diaspora by Roberto Avant-Mier.

2000 is also notable for being the year Metallica sued Napster. This suit would later be followed by A&M Records, Inc. v. Napster, Inc., in which Napster was sued by A&M Records and 18 record companies and members of the Recording Industry Association of America. But for most of the year, Metallica (specifically the band's drummer, Lars Ulrich) was the prominent example of artists fighting against music piracy. This is important to bring up, because issues surrounding the cost of music will continue to shape the record industry for the following decades. But more importantly, it gives me an excuse to share this anti-Napster PSA Metallica made for MTV. You're welcome.

#billboard poll #billboard music #tumblr poll #music poll #2000s #2000s music #2000 #faith hill #santana #rob thomas #the product g&b #joe #vertical horizon #destiny's child #savage garden #lonestar #matchbox twenty #toni braxton

[zappedbyzabka]

:) :) :)

#Billy’s leg practically on Tony’s THANK GOD! #It’s just like. this is how subtle Johnny is when he wants to sit in his lap #He could have given him some room but he said NO I want our thighs to cuddle #And Ron’s leg is under Tony’s w #They’re so close THEY’RE SITTING SO CLOSE #I know they had to but I’m so #I’m so GRAHHHHHHH #Just wish Chad were there #og cobras #Cobra ot5 #Tony’s o’dell #ron thomas #rob thomas #William Zabka

[lucymontero]

I loved Knives Out.

I loved Glass Onion

Benoit Blanc mysteries are perfect murder mysteries.

And as a bonus - as a Veronica Mars fan - it is delightful watching Rian Johnson achieve massive success writing mysteries that - according to Rob Thomas - should not work.

For those who have forgotten, Veronica Mara creator Rob Thomas claimed he had to keep Veronica perpetually traumatized because that made her more interesting ; and he had to kill off Logan because the mystery show itself is only interesting if there is the constant possibility of her sleeping with a suspect. And he claimed what he really wanted to do was have Veronica do more stand alone murders like an Agatha Christie manor house murder - and the only way that happens is by killing Logan.

And that has gone nowhere. And here is Rian Johnson basically giving us a healthy, stable, compassionate detective who remains charismatic without ever pursuing a relationship with any of the suspects. And the mysteries are fresh and fun and delicious. So now Rian Johnson has the closest thing to a modern Poirot we’ve seen and his success came from following zero of Thomas’s sexist af formulas.

That’s why he’s the king and Thomas is a schmuck.

#veronica mars #glass onion #Rob Thomas

[asexual-juliet]

ok in veronica mars 2x02 (“driver ed”), veronica cites phone records to prove that ed doyle called the cotter home at 4:05pm on a wednesday, fifteen minutes before he drove the bus into the ocean off the pacific coast highway, placing the bus crash itself at about 4:20. presuming that the bus crash happened the wednesday before logan’s september 24 “life’s short” party, we can place the bus crash itself on wednesday, september 21.

but in 2x14 (“versatile toppings”), keith tells terrance that the bus crash happened on september 13, which was a TUESDAY, at 7:03pm. rob thomas explain!!

#vm #vmars #veronica mars #vms2 #rob thomas #found this in my drafts lmfao

[catloves3]

What Jeff Davis did to Derek was the equivalent of what Rob Thomas did to Logan. Never forgiving them.

#sterek #teen wolf #derek hale #logan echolls #veronica mars #LoVe #jeff davis #rob thomas #never forgive

[lydiahosek]

[Image ID: A traditional pen and watercolor drawing of Suki from Avatar: The Last Airbender in modern clothing, including a blue sweater that is too big for her. She hugs her arms around herself and smiles. /.End ID]

First thing: We make you feel better

Next stop: We pull it all together

I'll keep you warm like a sweater

Take my hand, hold on forever

Sukka Week Day 6: Boyfriend Sweater

Prompts by @sukka-week

"Hold on Forever" by Rob Thomas

#sukkaweek #avatar the last airbender #suki #atla #rob thomas #hold on forever #sukkaweek2023 #art

[majestativa]

My muñequita, My Spanish Harlem Mona Lisa You're my reason for reason The step in my groove.

#Music #Mexican #American #Carlos Santana #Rob Thomas #Smooth #Supernatural #Youtube

[prettyboyharrington]

there will never not be a deep, visceral rage inside of me for rob thomas, imagine fans raising 5.7 million dollars 6 years after your show gets cancelled to fund a movie for said show only for you to, 5 years after the movies release, give them the absolute horse shit ending that is season 4

#veronica mars #vmars #rob thomas

[candygirl33]

Oh Darling, save the last dance for me ❤️

#rob thomas #acoustic #Youtube

[stglennfucker]

Gonna compile a list of every male character in sunny that could conceivably pound Dennis just for @nailgunstigmata

#including pondy #rob thomas #fuck it sinbad too #the other Bruce Mathis #all of Mac’s male relatives #the entire Mob #and a full gay bar

[veronicamarsconfessions]

Viewers have always shown their support for scripted shows that kept them coming back week to week — or bingeing all in one go. However, there are just some of the projects that ended on a sour note after disappointing their loyal fanbases.

#Veronica Mars #Rob Thomas #Jason Dohring #Logan Echolls #Kristen Bell #VMars #news

[veroniconique]

Rob Thomas is a sadistic, controlling, barely talented little ball of rage and ambition. He's the ex-boyfriend who burned your apartment down and tortured your dog to death who, in a dry spell, calls you and says, "We had some good times together, didn't we?" Most of the "shocking secrets" in this article are about how Veronica Mars succeeded despite Thomas's "better" judgment because of the talent of his cast and the intervention of the writer's room/producers. The absolute audacity. Never again, Rob, you piece of filth. Never, NEVER again.

#veronica mars #rob thomas is dead to me #rob thomas #logan echolls #kristen bell