#Secret Engima Rambles

[secret-engima]

Kumo Thoughts

So this will hopefully be quick but the most common take I see for Kumo in the Naruto fandom is that it's a overly militaristic hellhole (pardon the language) that kidnaps and forcibly breeds any bloodline it can get its hands on and like.

I get it?

the Naruto ninja world is absolutely messed up enough to accommodate a village like that. Especially with- *waves at Kiri*, *waves at ROOT*, *waves at Ame*, *wa-*. But I feel like personally I think that's. The shallowest take? Like if that's how you wanna world build it! You can! Lots of angst and interesting subterfuge down that way.

But we seen in canon that shinobi who live in Really horrible villages do tend to go missing-nin en masse; Kiri is the poster child for this, but Iwa and Suna both have some ... pretty noticeable defections. On the flip side the only REAL Kumo missing-nin we see, iirc, are the Kinkaku brothers.

From The First Shinobi War.

Like- what are things we know about Kumo *really* from the show/s?

and the one everyone harps on in worldbuilding- they tried to kidnap Hinata and Kushina.

HOWEVER. The rest of the things we know about them are:

2. Their Raikage is allergic to doors. He refuses to acknowledge doors. He can and will smash through any wall, window, or other non-door entity in order to exit or enter a room when at all possible. This is not the behavior of a Strict Rigid Militaristic Man this is the behavior of a feral gorilla someone stuffed in an office and expected to do paperwork. Which, granted, A is fully capable of doing his paperwork, by all accounts he's actually really good at running his village. But again. This man is allergic to doors or manners and anyone who is willing to arm wrestle Senju Tsunade to get medical assistance for his own men can't be all bad let's be real.

3. Killer B exists. I feel like he alone is enough evidence against the "military breeding program hellhole" fanon but to break it down. This "brother" of A is not actually his brother. In canon, B is literally just- *some kid*, AT BEST a cousin of the previous Jinchuuriki but that is not confirmed iirc, that was among several other kids that were all lined up and told "we need a new Jinchuuriki and A needs a fighting buddy, run at this training dummy and see if you can help him decapitate it" and when B was the one who succeeded they went "congrats you're his brother now, here's your complimentary octopus monster". And like everyone just accepts this? Not a SINGLE person calls B as a fake brother or points out that he and A are not actually related. Not to mention B has the strongest and most stable relationship with his Biju until Naruto and Kurama work out their bromance, and B was rocking that friendship with his biju *years* before Naruto even knew Kurama was a Thing That Existed.

4. B is also beloved by his village. BELOVED. The people adore him and his weird rapping nonsense. And yeah there's flashbacks in the anime to that not being the case when he was first introduced but B was actually able to work on changing their minds. You really think "small feral child rapping at civilians to make them warm up to him" would have flown in Kiri? In Iwa who canonically keep abusing their jinchuuriki to the point of running off? Nope. No sir. B is also allowed to have a team of his own, and seems to not only be an accepted member of the village but also a much trusted and beloved one who is even allowed his own team? Even Konoha doesn't have that good a track record lbr. It took Naruto face punching the guy who just committed genocide on the entire village for Konoha to go "you know what? We like you now".

5. One of the only other jinchuuriki we see that has fully mastered their Biju state and is on good terms with their Biju while also not being a missing-nin (or brainwashed and then immediately dead) is ALSO a Kumo ninja. Namely the holder of the Two Tails. Now on the wiki it says that she was put through a "detestable" training program but we all know how inconsistent Kishi is with... everything worldbuilding ever. And if we go off behavior alone from the brief scenes with her, Yugito Nii is?? Really stable??? And solid with her Biju??? She gave her pawprint for an Uchiha child's book of cat paw prints for crying out loud.

6. throughout the entire show, Jinchuuriki are consistently treated as the lowest class citizens. In basically every village. Naruto in Konoha, Kushina cried when she realized Minato was going to make Naruto a Jinchuuriki and put him through what she went through growing up as one so you know she didn't have a great time either, GAARA is his own entire dissertation on Jinchuuriki treatment and stability, Fuu was raised by the village leader of her village but had zero friends and was canonically super lonely and isolated, Han and Roku straight up ran away from Iwa because of whatever they were put through, a maneuver only repeated in another village by Utakata from Kiri. But in Kumo we find two jinchuuriki who have mastered their biju, are well respected by their peers and fellow citizens, and are basically treated like any other really weirdo ninja from the village barring needing to be monitored with bodyguards in B's case, which is mostly because he keeps running away to go train under rap artists so you can understand why A is ready to go frothing at the mouth feral at his brother sometimes.

All I'm saying is that if even the village's "monsters" are treated that way, why does everyone stick with the fanon that they're a breeding, bloodline stealing hellhole?

Imo it would be WAY more fun to world build Kumo as the feral mountain ninja-mandalorians of the Elemental Nations, who have a reputation for bloodline theft because they keep finding Actual Strays, Refugees from other villages, and Illegitimate bloodline children and going: YO ANYONE GONNA ADOPT THIS? and not waiting for an answer. Your a missing ninja from Kiri and you're fed up with both them and missing-nin life and want to come work for us? Great. Oh you also have a valuable kekkei genkai that can be inherited? Awesome have you heard of our red light district and child support program or better yet our tax deductible program for marrying one of our lovely civilians and raising a family here where no bloodline purges will ever happen ever. Oh you're a stray Uzumaki on the run from bloodline hunters? Well we may have been involved in destroying Uzushio (depends on your fan interpretation since canonically we do not know which villages did that other than Not Konoha) but we also have hot food, good housing, high ninja standards of living, and free weekly entertainment in betting when our Raikage is going to launch his desk at his brother like a high speed missile because B's rapping got too cringy.

Let Hinata's and Kushina's kidnapping either be the exception to their usual playbook of how they acquire bloodlines (hey it's not their fault if the other villages can't keep it in their pants/can't inspire loyalty) OR have it be seen, culturally in Kumo, as something more akin to a rescue mission. Yes these two girls are useful and have useful bloodlines, that's tactically wise, but also have you SEEN how Konoha treats their jinchuuriki? They have seal master princess and are treating her like a dog on a leash! And literally everyone knows what the Hyuuga do to their own kids if they aren't main branch, and we can't rescue any of those kids without their eyeballs exploding and them dying but hey we can snag the heiress and then any kids she has won't have to be branded so-.

Like I feel that would be so much more INTERESTING? Instead of having Konoha be the only "nice" village and make this weird tonal dissonance for how the "nice" village has the most incompetent leadership (Sarutobi) and underground atrocities (Danzo and Orochimaru) while every other village is Horrible All The Time For Everyone why not have Kumo be actually Really Functional and treat their shinobi and Jinchuuriki well and their horrible reputation is *mostly* (not entirely, because. Ninja.) be cultural clashes between the feral mountain ninja and Everyone Else and propaganda from the other villages who would like their shinobi to STOP DEFECTING TO KUMO PLEASE. WHAT DO YOU MEAN THEY HAVE DENTAL.

Seriously I feel like there is so much more you could do with that angle than just "yet another shinobi village that is Bad and Awful and Needs The Power of Friendship yet somehow has this really stupid goofy jinchuuriki man who loves his brother and his village shut up don't think about it".

#Secret Engima Rambles #naruto #naruto worldbuilding #ninja economics #naruto economics #kumo #naruto kumo #long post

[secret-engima]

While I’m throwing random Naruto hcs to the winds:

Uchiha were actually incredibly expressive by their own standards, but a side effect of being a clan of people with Super Detail Vision means that even those without the sharingan or with the sharingan not *on* means that they don’t need to move their faces much to convey a lot. Which was why to outsiders they looked so stiff and stoic for the most part. Because why bother doing large expressions when all your loved ones can see how overjoyed you are with just a tiny smile and the deepening of the laugh lines around your eyes?

This trait also makes them truly scary during police investigations because if you have *any* physical tell that you are lying, they *will* see it and use it to their advantage, with or without their sharingan on. These people are so detail oriented by default it’s insane. They also can have the Book literally memorized and ready to quote chapter and verse at you down to the grammar because their brains have evolved over generations to naturally memorize and rapidly process and catalogue information to compensate for said Super Vision.

This means, by extension, that Uchiha like Obito and Shisui who register to outsiders as the “normally expressive ones” are actually the Uchiha equivalent of Might Gai running down the street screaming loudly about Emotions and Youth.

That or Shisui is not actually that expressive by default (tho we know Obito is) and he just learned how to do that because he realized it made people more willing to talk to him and also it makes his relatives twitch in the Uchiha version of screaming “MY EYES” and he finds that really funny.

#Secret Engima Rambles #naruto #naruto worldbuilding #uchiha clan culture

[secret-engima]

*slaps table* hi. This is the post where I talk about, yet again, why Kishi is an idiot when it comes to the implications of his own worldbuilding. Point 1. being that Kishi’s insistence that peacetime is bad for shinobi business is hot garbage and point 2. being the implications of ANBU being Scary even to other shinobi. Because the show makes it clear that ANBU are supposed to be the Scary Ones, the Dark Ones who do messed up stuff. Many fics have already talked about this, but not *too* many I've seen actually explore the implications of what that actually MEANS when put in the context of a society who thinks it's A-okay to give a knives and bombs to literal kids and shoo them off to fight things. Buckle up I’m going to flex my logic center and start talking economics even tho I never studied economics outside casual worldbuilding interest.

Okay to start off with, I’m need to talk about Not Anbu for a hot minute and describe some of the few things we *do* know about Kishi’s “worldbuilding” of the shinobi villages and their history.

1. Literally everyone but Madara the Madman agrees that the villages are a Good Thing that happened, even the missing ninja never breathe a word about wanting to go back to the Warring States Era where everyone was in clans. The implications of this could honestly be it’s own entire rant but I will restrain myself and focus on the topic at hand for now.

2. Konoha and every village barring the trash fire that is pre-Boruto Kiri have a thriving enough economy to be literal *cities* of very decent size and decent quality of life, which the civilians have a major hand in I’m sure, but tellingly the shinobi *make enough income to get by* and seem to do so very easily. I will probably come back to this as I go on.

3. Ninja villages not only have a wide array of mission ranks (which I will also come back to) but they are the ones who set the prices for individual missions, not the employers. This is seen in the infamous Wave mission when the bridge builder fellow lied about the danger of the mission because he *could not afford to pay for a mission above a C-rank*, which I remind you is the second lowest mission ranking in the system.

Alright with those in mind I’m gonna talk about the “peacetime is bad for shinobi” garbage because that does actually relate directly to the worldbuilding implications of ANBU. Just. Just bear with me here and forgive me if this kinda rambles in multiple directions, talking about anything with Kishi makes my braincells run for the hills on a good day.

JUMPING IN WITH THE PEACETIME THING. This is stupid. This is one of the stupidest things to come out of Kishi’s mouth in my opinion barring the existence of the cannibal space aliens. Why? Because despite Kishi’s love of explosions and giant flashy fights shinobi are supposed. To be. STEALTHY. And the vast majority of them now live in villages, which means they need steady income.

Post the unification of the clans into villages, wars actually became too big and messy to be profitable because it’s during peacetime that people have money to spend on hiring ninja. And we see them spend it on incredibly frivolous things when it comes to shinobi. Just look at all the D-ranks we see or are referenced in the shows. Babysitting, pet retrieval, fence painting, carrying shopping bags for civilian ladies, house cleaning, the list goes on. And these pay well enough, are priced high enough by the village, that Might Dai, a single parent, was able to feed, shelter, and clothe both himself and an extremely energetic child while also having time to train himself and his son and walk Gai to and from school. And the price tag for missions only goes up from there. Higher ranked missions pay more according to risk, but peacetime is when people will be able to afford those kinds of missions. *Wartime*, as war is defined in the show post-village creation, are giant, messy affairs where a lot of manpower goes to maintaining front lines and countering enemy action, leaving far *less* manpower and time to take on these kinds of missions, and with the mass destruction of land and resources that these wars cause, people will have less money to throw at having the magic ninja men do things like escort caravans, deal with petty crime, retrieve stolen items, etc. And those examples are just C-rank/B-rank examples. Most wartime missions that we see in the show are actually missions assigned by the village itself, not from an outside client, which means the pay is coming from the Village coffers and not an external source, which can get messy very quickly if they do not have the manpower to take enough missions from outside clients to refill those coffers. Remember that I’m coming back to it later.

Wartime, for village ninja, is loud and messy and ugly. *Peacetime* on the other hand, is the playground of the rich, the powerful, and the *subtle*. Peacetime is when nobles pay top dollar to *flaunt* that they can afford to hire a ninja or three to escort them around in broad daylight regardless of any enemies they’ve made. Peacetime is when nobles have the money to pay for ninja to go in and spy on rivals or steal secrets. Peacetime is when the Daimyo and other elites hire shinobi to escort luxury goods at high risk of theft, to deal with underground human or drug trafficking that is inconveniencing them, or to spy on their neighboring lands for information that will become useful next time they meet up to flex on each other in a “you don’t want to make trouble with me I have and know X”.

More importantly, peacetime is when the *lower* classes can afford to pay for the magic ninja as well. If D-ranks are enough to support a single parent and his child, then C and B ranks are actually going to be the *backbone* of a ninja village’s economy, not the A or S ranks. C and B ranks are going to be the highest pay for the lowest risk, and those will predominantly come from the merchant and working class who have enough spare cash to have someone deal with the wild animals harming their livestock, take out budding trafficking rings and bandit gangs or escort people and goods.

     I don’t think I’m emphasizing this one enough. Look at a map of the Elemental Nations, look at the size of those countries. Now we don’t get a lot of info on cities in those countries (because KISHI) but there are bound to be plenty of villages, towns, and cities dotting those countries, and all of them are going to be connected in some way to each other via trade routes and highways. You’re going to have Konoha’s own supply lines and the trade deals they have with their own merchant families bargaining for preferential treatment in exchange for setting up shop in a ninja village on top of all the other merchants from all over the Land of Fire who, during peacetime, have both money and incentive to hire the fire-chucking magic people to ensure *all* of their goods arrive *on time, every time*.

You’re going to have merchants who have supply lines through multiple countries. Glass products from the Land of Wind. Inks, fine paper, and flavored teas from Land of Fire. Fish, oyster, and pearl products from the coast (which is especially high risk in areas near the disaster fire that is Kiri). Each and every country is going to have luxury products or famous higher-quality raw materials (*points at Iwa and their rock obsession, points at every product made out of high quality stone, silver, gold, or iron ore*) that the other countries are all going to want, and consequently you will have merchants that are going to be willing to pay top dollar to ensure those products get where they are meant to go and do so undamaged and in a timely fashion despite bad roads/bad weather/bandits/rogue shinobi hired by a competitor/wild animals/freak acts of the local kami because you forgot to pay tribute to their shrine last week.

The technology of pre-Boruto era is also still stuck in the *horse and wagon* stage, meaning you have caravans of this stuff moving on very strict, long term schedules, which means these are jobs that the village can charge per day or week on the road on top of the base price estimated from the level of risk to the shinobi. You have merchants who are going to give preferential treatment to the village of their home nation if they can, both because you Don’t Insult The Local Fire Breathers/Rock Gougers/Storm Summoners/Etc but also because the villages themselves likely offer discounts for natives of their country, or even contracts that are essentially subscription deals for those who have multiple caravans going out at the same time, multiple times in a year. A “pay this much up front and we will ensure that several shinobi are always on standby to guard one of your caravans” kinda deal. It’s been implied multiple times in the shows that the majority of any shinobi village’s workforce are chuunin and that jounin’s are elite, and C/B-ranks are literally stated in the wiki to be usually given to teams of Chuunin or sometimes two genin teams and their jounin pairing up for a joint operation. Chuunin are going to make their careers on guarding caravans, dealing with bandits, clearing road hazards, etc. If Chuunin are the majority of your workforce, then missions that chuunin can take are going to be, by necessity, the largest cashflow coming into your village.

If a war between two or more countries is happening, all of that gets heavily restricted because of the risk of infiltration, heavily impeded from road destruction and wartime front lines, or straight up *shut down* from lack of money and manpower to take those missions.

Can you see what I’m getting at now when I say Kishi’s peacetime line is stupid.

And here comes another fun aspect of this. Because where the money flows, so does the cultural norms. Now a lot of fics I’ve seen emphasize the child soldier thing and also how D-ranks are very likely a way to acclimate the genin to mission work while also training civilians to see ninja as Friendly Safe Workers who happen to have magic powers and knives. But the thing is, all of that work on acclimating the civilians to view their local shinobi as Safe To Hire is going to go out the window if you remind them too often that these people are literal killers for hire. Merchants are not going to want to hire Infamous Killers because that says to their customers and their potential business partners that they themselves are shady and possibly approve of murder to get their way. Poking at D-ranks briefly, farmers aren’t going to want to hire potentially unhinged murderers to till their fields, and nobody is going to want to hire even the genin to *babysit their kids*.

So.

In order to attract reliable patronage from these low risk, well paying areas, the ninja villages had to *alter their public perception*. Assassination missions, kidnapping missions, extortion missions, all of those over time became short-term gain/long-term loss for the village. So they took them on less and less, and those kinds of missions became increasingly *socially unacceptable* even to the shinobi, because if the village doesn’t approve of it, it’s not a good thing. What assassination/sabotage missions we do see or hear referenced in canon are always, iirc, targeting someone that can the ninja can safely point at and say “this is a bad guy”. High ranking rogue shinobi from other villages or crime lords or despotic warlords being I think the majority (if not the entirety) of the few examples canon gives us. Those are people that, when civilians hear about them being assassinated, the civilians are going to say “good riddance” rather than “oh no!”. And if those missions are the only ones that the common shinobi hear about themselves or take on, then that’s what they are going to associate with those types of missions. A high risk job that is nonetheless seen as Morally Right, even if their moral compass hinges mostly on who is the friend or enemy of their home village.

I could also get into how this has really interesting implications for what the Warring State Era shinobi economics were like and how Hashirama and Madara making Konoha was basically inventing the concept of unionizing but I’m not going to side track to that because finally, FINALLY, we get to the ANBU Are Scary Thing.

Because this. This whole thing about how peacetime is actually where ninja villages make their bread and butter and how the push-pull of being Socially Acceptable for Money turning into Actual Moral Perception is where ANBU’s identity as the Scary Guys comes into play.

Now we don’t know when ANBU was actually founded in Konoha or any other village, but I’m going to ballpark and say it was *after* the First War because of a few key things we know about ANBU.

1. ANBU are Scary.

2. ANBU are known to specifically hunt other ninja (specifically Kiri has a Hunter-nin branch of ANBU but logically every village would have this).

3. ANBU work is extremely psychologically and physically grueling to their members and has a high fatality rate.

4. Whatever ANBU does is considered messed up even by ninja standards. An example that comes to mind is a filler flashback where Gai ends up running into Kakashi on an ANBU mission where Kakashi is basically putting down enemy ninja that are defeated and attempting to surrender and Gai is visibly distressed by this.

The First Shinobi World War likely rocked the Elemental Nations as badly or *worse* than WWI did for the real world, because this was the first time “war” was not defined as two or three noble lords throwing peasants with spears or the occasional ninja at each other or two or three shinobi clans having a protracted blood feud that they could only initiate when they weren’t busy trying to feed their own families. Assuming Konoha has the average number of shinobi clans that can be found in a shinobi village, that means we had somewhere upward of 55 clans from various countries throwing everything they had at each other on open battlefields, destroying large amounts of landscape, and causing shinobi and civilian casualties on a mass scale that even the most fire happy Uchiha could not have achieved on their worst day. This was also after Jinchuuriki became a thing, so this war was the first demonstration of what it’s like to essentially duct tape a nuke to an emotionally volatile child soldier and see what happens when you throw two or more of them into a battlefield.

The economy of the villages and their respective nations would have been in chaos after the war. Entire towns, roads, and bridges are straight up gone, chunks of landscape for miles around have been drastically rewritten, the death toll is high and the missing persons list is even higher and in the wake of this you’re going to have *every* would-be warlord and their grandfather getting uppity and trying to stake a claim on what they can of the wreckage. This includes Rogue Shinobi, likely the first real appearance of Rogue Shinobi in ninja history, at least on this scale. Lots of shinobi are going to be disillusioned from the war, exhausted, more than a few are mentally broken from the traumas, and all the ninja who have no moral compasses and dreams of power are looking at this and deciding “hey, now is a great time to become a warlord”. On top of all this, since most of the wartime missions were assigned by the villages themselves and not an outside client (with *very minimal* cash flow coming from the Daimyo himself since presumably the war was partially his idea, but even the royal coffers are not enough to run a military city the size of Konoha kthanks), the village coffers are likely hanging out somewhere between “Naruto’s childhood allowance” and “I can offer you lint”.

Obviously, these things need to be taken care of pronto, and with the villages scrambling to have the money to rebuild, the Kage in charge are going to be much more willing to take on dirty missions like assassinations, extortion, blackmail, *whatever* just to refill the village coffers. But. The ninja villages still need to keep their social acceptability in order to start getting their C and B ranks back, especially after the war opened everyone’s eyes to how destructive shinobi can really be in large numbers. They cannot afford to be seen killing left and right and the Rogue ninja are a huge stain on their village’s reputation, but openly advertising that “hey, if anyone leaves the village we’ll behead them” really isn’t going to do any favors for keeping the shinobi who are in the same mental space Tsunade was when she got fed up and left Konoha altogether.

And this, I think, is what gave rise to the existence of ANBU. The Kages picking their remaining highly skilled and most loyal followers, putting them in masks so that they cannot be easily identified by civilians, and sent out to quietly complete these high level, socially unacceptable missions. They were sent out to deal with Rogue shinobi and make them disappear without advertising to all the other traumatized village shinobi that their village is “serve or die” rather than the more patriotic “we fight for our home” that they were raised with. They were sent out to perform civilian assassinations, extortion, whatever they were offered in order to shore up the village’s shaky economy of the time and enable the Kage to pay their soldiers.

Then, after the economy stabilized, the ANBU just kinda … never left. Because by then the respective Kage had realized that being able to take on these kinds of missions with high pay and no loss of social acceptability was useful, and in the wake of the First War with everyone being simultaneously paranoid of their neighboring country but also on eggshells to not start another war, the anonymity of ANBU became a convenient way to keep an eye on each other and subtly attempt to sabotage the other when it looked like they were getting too powerful. The next two Great Shinobi Wars only solidified ANBU’s role in the hidden villages for those very same reasons, even though I would argue that they were ultimately a Bad Idea because they put too much power in the hands of the Kage without their village clans being able to hold them responsible, and that’s how we get stuff like Danzo™ and the crimes committed by Danzo™ and the Sandaime against the Uchiha. The existence of ANBU and the ability to “anonymously” jab at each other also just encouraged the animosity between the Great Shinobi Villages, and allowed warmongers (Danzo™) to ensure that an actual peace never fully settled in until the 4th Shinobi War happened.

And the peace post the 4th war, by the way, SHOULD have been a huge boom in the popularity and use of shinobi rather than the detriment that the Boruto manga/anime insists on for like- all the reasons stated in the economics part of this rant as well as the rise of CORPORATIONS that would happily pay a lot for shinobi in a host of different capacities and also people paying for shinobi to pretty please come help rebuild our destroyed homes and farmland with your fancy ninja powers.

It’s also canon that several shinobi retired and went into other professions in the wake of this peace and alliance, such as *acting*, which opens up an entire potential slew of missions geared specifically toward movie producers using their new technologies and their bigger budgets to hire shinobi as stuff like stunt doubles, live special effects artists (need to rehearse but the set isn’t done yet? No problem!! Just hire someone with *genjutsu* to make your actors the ultimate set/stage), *makeup artists* (hey those infiltration skills come in handy in a lot of ways), and more. And that’s just one “modern” profession off the top of my head that would adore having Magic Ninja People available for hire.

I’m sure I’m missing a ton of potential peace time jobs and economic implications because again, I only research this stuff in relation to worldbuilding fictional places. But there we go, I have just gone a 3k rant about ninja economics in order to explain why ANBU are Scary. I hope ya’ll enjoyed.

A side note I couldn’t find a good spot for in the actual rant but another factor in the shinobi villages having to change their behavior and seem Socially Acceptable is because of the rise of civilian-born shinobi in their genin/chuunin ranks. Because there’s no way a civilian family is going to *want* their child to become a murderous psychopath. A competent, magic wielding defender of your merchant uncle’s caravans on the other hand…

Other rants I need to do at some point when my braincells aren’t mush are:

1. My personal HCs on Konoha’s orphanage/foster system (aka Hi, Let Me Give You More Reasons To Hate Sarutobi Hiruzen)

2. Ninja Economics Two: Warring States Boogaloo (Edit: now available here!)

3. Why Cannibal Space Ninjas Are The Stupidest Idea of Multiple Stupid Options

4. Boruto Ninja Cults: What Kishi Could’ve Done Instead of the Garbage We Got

5. Genin Corps (Aka Reasons Kishi Could’ve Given for Why No One Thought Kabuto Was Suspicious But Didn’t. Aka Ninja Economics 3 Babyyyyyy)

#Secret Engima Rambles #SE rants #naruto worldbuilding #ninja economics #boruto #taking red string and thumbnails of logic to Kishi's hot nonsense

[secret-engima]

I have tea and a soap box let's spill something shall we (Wakfu Rant)

*sips tea*

I've been in this fandom for like. A month? more? Depends on how long it took me to work through the show. I've not actually interacted with the *fandom* at all, just the canon stuff and my own spiralling insanity. But while I'm here I might as well make enemies /s. Therefore:

Oropo is a much more compelling character deserving of redemption than Qilby. Qilby:

Had a loving literal goddess mom and a bunch of loving siblings.

A beautiful planet and thriving culture he could go anywhere and do anything on

The capability of going into space without any technological aids once he got bored of the Eliatrope world and started to suffer the effects of his eidietic memory thing. We know for a fact that Eliatropes and their dragon sibs literally don't need so much as a helmet to vibe in space, they could have gone out there any time, explored the cosmos a bit, found cool things as souvenirs and brought them back to show off to his siblings.

While this is very clumsily and blatantly retconned in s4, in s2 Qilby is very open and blatant about the fact he willingly picked a fight with Orgonax with the INTENTION of forcing his entire people to flee their world into space just so he would have more company than Shinonome. An entire world and no doubt thousands of Eliatropes and who knows what pieces of their history and culture were lost because this man, and I remind you again that s2 Qilby taunts Yugo with this fact no matter how s4 woobified him, wanted to FORCE his people to join him in space rather than just let manning the fuck up and going out there with his sister on a buddy roadtrip.

Seems very convinced that some or all of his specimens in his lab are the last of their kinds, which at best means he intentionally targeted dying species on alien worlds to capture and put into jars for literal eternity which is all kinds of animal cruelty (assuming some of them aren't sentient!!) and at worst means he is the reason they are the last of their kind because Qilby wanted his souvenir to be Unique.

when his people finally found a new world to settle on and be happy and try to reclaim their culture, he instigated a SECOND GENOCIDE, this one taking out not only their home world but literally every. living. adult Eliatrope (and dragon considering the propensity for dragons to have Eliatrope twins as stated in s1). Literally thousands if not millions of people are dead, thousands of children are orphaned and left trapped in a realm where they cannot *grow up*, the vast majority of his own siblings are dead and oh look at that. He's stuck in sensory deprivation hell. Man. If only there was some course of action he could have taken that would not have led to him fighting his own siblings, losing his arm, and getting stuck in the white void of horribleness. Man this truly is a tragedy of fate. Definitely no way he could have gone back into space without the Zinit. Definitely could not have just hopped on Shinonome's back with a packed lunch and gone out there on his own knowing he would have a loving family to come back to whenever he got lonely. Man.

upon breaking out of the White Void Of Horrible he is even more mentally unstable (and yes I know he's mentally ill during the above events, that does not excuse his actions when he is aware enough of them to gloat about them to yugo later) and immediately decides that he's going to kill this entire world in order to leave and he's going to take his siblings and the few surviving eliatrope kids with him by force.

has ANYONE other than me noticed the incredibly dark and horrific implications of him apparently planning to kill Phaerys and Yugo (and Adamai likely). Yugo says he couldn't go through with it and I'll believe that, but the fact he apparently consciously PLANNED it. Am I the only one who saw that scene and went "if he kills them, then they go back to the dofus and hatch without any memories, which means he will be able to RAISE AND GROOM THEM in the Zinit to believe that whatever Qilby says is right and do whatever he wants, like galavant in space for eternity".

S4 can retcon as much as it likes to make the Orgonax thing an accident and Qilby a mama's boy (which I freely admit was funny and I would have enjoyed in any other villain), but going off s2 and moving into s3 I REALLY cannot see why people like him more and hate Oropo.

And even if we DO count s4's retcon that made the first incident an accident the SECOND WAS STILL DAMN WELL INTENTIONAL. And Qilby is still responsible for the death of thousands twiceover on top of the death of an entire culture. All of Eliatrope history, culture, science, medicine, *music*, *STORIES*, it's all gone save for whatever the Emrub kids happen to remember (and the kids will not remember it accurately because they are children). All their architecture is destroyed, all their native cuisine is GONE and so are the ingredients to make them. All because Qilby wanted to force them into space WHEN THEY DID NOT WANT TO GO and HE COULD HAVE GONE ON HIS OWN AT ANY POINT WITH SHINONOME.

Speaking of Oropo! Let's look at what we know about him for comparison!

Was created by accident and is intimately aware of it.

was thrown back in time and lived most if not all of his life perpetually terrified of changing history or accidentally erasing himself and his siblings

Not only saw all of his siblings die off over the years but had their energy absorb into him in something that is no doubt extremely traumatizing to undergo. if any of you have watched the Oropo-centric ova, man for a mastermind manipulator he sure do look like he wanna cry and throw up and curl in a little ball when two of his siblings die in front of him and he is forced to assimilate their life energy.

"Supposedly" staged several key villain creation events which I personally press x to doubt because it's so clunky when mixed in with s1 and s2 lore BUT if we graciously assume that he did then gee. can't possibly be a factor of the third bullet point and his terror of erasing the timeline with his own existence can it? Can't possibly be Oropo falling into Every Heroic Time Travel Trope Ever where the hero ensures a certain event happens in order to maintain the timeline in key points hm? Even if it's a bad idea?

Has been successfully and lovingly married? partnered? mated? to a badass half-dragon wife for literal centuries and every time they are on screen together before the Dramatic Amalia Bullshit they are loving and balanced and give off so many Old Married Vibes and then THEY RESUME that dynamic for the few seconds on screen they have before they both die.

Adopts and raises hundreds of orphaned demigods who apparently were more than happy to live in the Tower and follow him throughout their lives, and in fact show no sign of abuse or manipulation in their behavior until the finale when Anakam decides it's time for everyone to think Oropo is horrible

is actively DYING when we meet him and not just dying but faced with the prospect that there is no happy ending for him. He will never see his loved ones in the afterlife, he will never know peace, he will be assimilated by his creator Yugo and at *best* be essentially digested into raw wakfu and at *worst* be a ghost stuck in the head of a man he has extremely complicated and negative feelings about for the above time travel and sibling trauma.

Adamai EXPLICITLY MENTIONS THAT OROPO IN S3 IS ACTING OUT OF CHARACTER when he goes into his more Blatant Villain Moments. Which sure, could be "the mask" falling to reveal someone "oooo evil" but isn't it far more likely he's acting out of character because he's dying and having a crisis about it.

canonically hates violence, but was so desperate to ensure his loved ones would have a better world he was willing to resort to turning himself into a suicide bomber to "create a better world". Was this a good idea? no. but ppl apparently love to point out how Qilby is mentally unstable to justify his behavior soooooo like. Why is that excuse not applicable to the guy who's literally spent his entire life being uncertain he's even real and has a right to exist but is real enough to DIE and never see the people he loves again and therefor go off the rails in his attempts to make something better for them?

in s4, the same season that makes Qilby sympathetic so if you count that as canon then by gods you better count the Oropo moments as canon, Oropo gives Yugo a reprieve from the literal life sucking torture he's in, helps him get a new outfit, and lets Bouillon play fight him (because again, Oropo hates Doing Violence) to keep him distracted and SANE while his body is being horribly tortured. In the end Yugo even confirms they are real and a part of him which is literally all Oropo wanted in his dying speech if you rewatch the finale and boil down his fury to its bullet points (he is a clone without a future and literally says stuff along the lines of just wanting to be REAL and wanting Yugo to ACKNOWLEDGE him).

For a supposed mastermind villain who wanted Yugo dead Yugo sure does seem Super Duper Alive in the months/two years/whatever timeline Ankama is using this hot second since he created the clones and was therefore *no longer necessary* for Oropo to keep alive.

At the end of the day Qilby actively chose HIMSELF over the wellbeing of others and got multiple siblings killed as well as two worlds and an entire civilization/culture wiped out. OROPO set himself on a path of similar destruction and then ACTIVELY TURNED BACK because he was faced with the choice of his ambitions or HIS LOVED ONES and he PRIORITIZED THEIR LIVES OVER HIS OWN AND HIS OWN GOALS where as Qilby not only did not do that, he didn't do it TWICE. TWICE. Oropo's death count is miniscule and he chose to sacrifice himself rather than lose the people he was doing this for and Echo knew he would make that choice, which means she also knew his love of them was genuine. You cannot compare that to Qilby and tell me Qilby is in any way better.

Okay rant over I'm going back to planning my wakfu canon rewrite and my various Echo/Oropo oneshots thank you and good day.

#Secret Engima Rambles #wakfu #Oropo #wakfu oropo #wakfu qilby #SE rants #if anyone comes in here talking about the manga or the games don't even bother #if its information that the writers of the show cannot be damned to put IN the show then it does not count for the purposes of this compari #also if you like qilby that's fine? #s4 qilby was entertaining #but Oropo is best boy and Imma kill canon on this hill #thanks #long post

[secret-engima]

Shinobi Economics 2: Warring States Boogaloo

RIGHT IT’S TIME FOR NINJA ECONOMICS 2: WARRING STATES BOOGALOO.

Link to my previous 3k tumblr rant on canon era shinobi economics here , and a casual reminder that I do not study or research economics a whole bunch outside of a casual interest for fantasy worldbuilding. Most of this is just- trying to logic out some semblance of sense inside the Naruto setting.

But to summarize the stuff I think is relevant to jumping into this one, in the previous ramble I established that:

1. Peacetime is actually Really Profitable for shinobi villages of the Nidaime to Boruto eras, because that’s when the lower classes (Merchant and Worker) can afford to pay shinobi for jobs that are ultimately the most money for the least amount of risk.

2. Shinobi villages set the prices of missions, not the clients (as seen in the premise of the Wave arc, where the bridge builder lied about the risk so that he only had to pay for a C rank instead of a B or A rank mission), and that whatever prices they have set for missions, it allows even a single parent shinobi with an active child to live comfortably in a city. Not wealthy necessarily, but clearly able to feed, clothe, shelter, and spend time with their child on top of work and training.

3. In all of canon, all the movies, even in Boruto (up to the point I’ve watched so far anyway), there is not a single shinobi that suggests going back to the warring state era. Not even the missing-nin. Not even Madara, who was more than happy to plot the downfall of every shinobi village and the world at large, tried to get them to go back to warring states (admittedly he was more interested in brainwashing everyone with an overgrown weed, but hey).

In that previous rant, I also made an offhand mention that Hashirama and Madara ending the war between their clans and making peace was them essentially inventing a ninja union, and I kind of want to come back to that in this rant by talking about what the Warring State Era ninja economy was probably like, considering what little we know in canon (ie the anime flashbacks which YES COUNT AS CANON since it makes exactly as much nonsense as the rest of Kishi’s worldbuilding), 

Okay so. What do we know about the Warring State Era?

1. We know it was a very bloody time of frequent clan on clan fighting.

2. Medical chakra techniques/medicine in general were not as advanced (because Tsunade is infamous for her contributions to the world of medicine and she doesn’t exist yet) so fatalities or crippling injuries were definitely more common, and most shinobi wore samurai style armor which tells me:

2a. The armor was likely a response to how much easier it was back then for a shinobi to be crippled or killed through blood loss and infection (especially infection).

2b. It could also be a hold over from the Samurai era, since we honestly never get a straight answer from Kishi on where the heck Samurai fit into his swiss cheese timeline. There is, according to the Naruto wiki, a mention of them having split off from shinobi back when chakra use was still called ninshu but that makes … about as much sense as most of Kishi’s timeline and therefore is suspect at best and garbage at worst.

3. Child soldiers were even more of a thing than they are in the village era. For comparison, Kakashi was considered a prodigy for graduating and becoming a genin at 5, and Itachi was exposed to death at age 4, but that flashback is structured (in the anime at least) in a manner that implies that this was not the norm (thanks Fugaku) and that Itachi should not have been anywhere near the battlefield since he hadn’t even enrolled in Academy yet (canonically enrolled at age 6 and was allowed to take the graduation test a few months later). However in the Warring States Era flashback, Hashirama’s and Tobirama’s brother Kawarama died at age 7, and their father makes comments that imply Kawarama was considered at least enough of an adult to be a shinobi, which means he *probably* didn’t die on his first mission? Their other brother Itama, who we do not have an official age for but is clearly younger than Hashirama and Tobirama (who are drawn to at least appear 12 or younger) also dies young, probably around the same age as Kawarama did. We also see Izuna, during the river confrontation between Madara’s and Hashirama’s families, wielding a sword that is clearly *sized* for a child. Unlike Tobirama in that same scene who’s out here with an adult katana held on his back like a buster sword, Izuna is using a sword that looks like it was forged with a child his age in mind. Which … yeah. Not good. Hashirama and Madara also directly reference a desire for ending the deaths of children on the battlefield when they are discussing their dream of a village. So clearly children becoming shinobi at 6-7 and up was Not Uncommon.

4. Going off the continued existence of a Daimyo and his court in canon era, there were a lot of feudal lords in this era, hiring shinobi to do their dirty work. Not just Daimyo against Daimyo like we see in the village era Shinobi Wars, but likely neighboring lords hiring one shinobi clan or another to heckle, sabotage, and assassinate each other. Especially considering the Naruto world Warring States is clearly supposed to be reminiscent of the Sengoku period of Japan.

So, with those things in mind. How did shinobi economics in this era work and why was Konoha so revolutionary in more than just “hey the Senju and Uchiha aren’t killing each other!” way?

Well first thing is that the shinobi clans would have been at the whims of the various lords and the Daimyo rather than able to establish their own prices for missions, and the vast majority of the clan on clan conflicts would have either started or been fueled by the nobles of the era out of convenience. There are over 16 clans listed on the wiki as being “Konoha” clans, while we can discount a few of them (namely the Lee clan because that’s just Rock Lee, the Uzumaki who were from their own hidden village, and the Hoki family who I think immigrated in from Suna? If I’m reading the wiki right?), and those are just the clans that actually survived to the canon village era. That is a lot of competition for shinobi work in an era where most of those jobs would have come from the rich lords, the Daimyo himself, or a few very wealthy merchants would have been able to afford to both hire a shinobi clan and would have felt it worth the risk of gambling that their competitors wouldn’t also hire a shinobi clan to retaliate. The working class would not have been able to afford a shinobi’s services, and they also definitely wouldn’t want to risk going near a shinobi, because this era was when the clans would’ve had their bloodiest, most inhuman rumors and reputations as remorseless killers.

The staple/most common jobs for shinobi clans of that era would likely have been the violent ones that in the modern era get regulated to ANBU, because again, the Worker class can’t hire for D-ranks and the Merchant class probably either also couldn’t or wouldn’t want to unless desperate or trying to threaten their competition with the reputation of shinobi. These “common” jobs would have been assassinations of adults or children, kidnappings, sabotages, blackmail gathering, spying, and open battlefield conflicts (every Senju-Uchiha conflict we see in the flashback arc, not counting Itama’s death or the river confrontation, is on an open battlefield with both parties in varying levels of armor actually). And of course the other side of those common jobs would be missions from rival lords who are hiring a clan to prevent all the previously listed missions. Which is probably where a good chunk of clan animosities started, opposing contracts that got out of hand and started an all out blood feud. 

If a wealthy merchant hired a clan to guard their product/caravan, it was probably because some competitor or a lord who took offense to them for some reason had already hired another shinobi clan to sabotage said caravan and product. If a lord hired a shinobi to kill a rival or his family, that rival had either already hired shinobi bodyguards or was going to in response to this. Which, on top of fueling a lot of clan on clan grudges from being repeatedly on opposite sides of a job, means that shinobi clans couldn’t really demand a specific mission prices. A little bit of haggling over the price, yes, especially in the case of the more powerful/sought after clans, but if a shinobi clan tried to push for “too much”, the prospective client could simply leave and hire another clan. Likely a rival clan that had a blood feud with the first clan just to spite them. Any failed missions or missions that were refused because of the pay or risk involved would also definitely lead to the client spreading word against that clan to any allies, which would lead to less missions and valuable income down the line.

The clans with the most ability to haggle, at least in Land of Fire, would *probably* have been the Four Noble Clans Kishi mentions; The Uchiha, The Aburame, the Akimichi, and the Hyuuga. We never have it explained why they are noble clans or why there is only four, but basic logic says that they were clans who actually held positions in the Daimyo’s court, and having that position would have helped them set at least *some* level of wage standard for shinobi work they took on so long as they were careful not to annoy the Daimyo in the process. But even then, there was only so much they could demand before there was a risk of the client leaving and taking any future business from them and their social circle with them.

The Uchiha-Senju conflict was said to last for generations. According to Kishi it lasted since Indra-Ashura thanks to Black Zetsu specifically, but that is stupid on multiple levels that I won’t fully cover here. It’s much more likely that the descendants of Indra and Ashura clashed a few times and mostly tried to avoid each other until the Warring States Era actually started, by which point those descendants were the Senju and Uchiha (and Uzumaki but they’re canonically a neutral party in that whole deal iirc). The blood feud *probably* started when a noble lord spotted the natural avoidance/borderline animosity of the Uchiha and Senju and hired the Senju to sabotage either an Uchiha job or even to attack the Uchiha themselves if the Uchiha held a position in the Daimyo’s court at that point. And because Uchiha do not react calmly to basically anything, the response was very bloody and over the top, to which the Senju also reacted poorly and… *gestures at the blood feud*. After that, warring lords would have started to intentionally hire the Uchiha and the Senju to pit them against each other because neither clan would haggle too much over the price of a job for fear of it being thrown to their enemy instead, and with both clans so eager to get revenge on the other as the years went on, they were guaranteed to give their all on the battlefield regardless of the mission pay. Which is a technique that would have been used against most of the clans to keep them from getting too powerful or too uppity about the pay for their jobs, but especially the dangerous ones with kekkei genkai.

With the inability to really dictate the prices of their shinobi work, the civilians of shinobi clans likely would have sought to provide some other form of goods and services to help bolster the clan (the civilians not busy trying to keep the clan fed anyway). This has been explored by other fanfic writers in this fandom (shout-out to Umei_no_Mai’s series “the Compass Points North” for being really great at this), but of course depending on the size of the clan and their access to resources that don’t immediately go to either Feeding the Clan or Providing For Shinobi Work, how much money this actually brought in for each clan is entirely variable.

So there’s the Warring States Era cycle of shinobi work. Lord A hires Clan 1 to Do Thing, Lord B hires Clan 1’s most hated rival if possible to Stop Thing, both lords sit back and watch the two clans fight it out for far less than their work is actually worth. Wash, rinse, occasionally repeat with clans that are not hated rivals but are still going to fight it out viciously because if they don’t do a good enough job then they will lose any further work from that client and the client’s associates.

And then the Uchiha-Senju Alliance happened, and did not disintegrate within weeks or months as outsiders would have anticipated.

And this one thing. This one alliance. Completely destroyed the “comfortable” cycle the lords, Daimyo, and wealthy merchants had for their shinobi dealings up to that point. Because now, not only are the two most powerful clans in Land of Fire no longer available to hire against each other, but they also have two clans’ worth of civilian trade and shinobi revenue to keep them from starving the first time they said “no” to a client, and any client they do say yes to has the pick of Senju shinobi, Uchiha shinobi, or a mixed team of the clans’ respective powerhouses.

What do you think the response was the first time a client approached literally any of the other clans and tried to hire them to go up against both Hashirama and Madara, or, just as scarily, Senju Tobirama with a grumpy Uchiha or three following on his heels.

The answer was no. The answer was heck no. The answer was we would literally rather starve rather than choose that flavor of suicide. 

Because while other clans have clashed with the Senju and Uchiha before during this era thanks to it being logistically impossible for someone to hire a Senju to fight an Uchiha and visa versa every time, those clashes would still have been comparatively rare but memorable. Similar to the nobles funding these blood feuds, the other shinobi clans of Land of Fire would have grown accustomed to “your chances of dying via Tree Man or Angry Fire Cat Man are statistically low” and being able to kinda sit back and watch the Senju and Uchiha tear each other apart from a safe distance, with only minimal risk of running into far less skilled Uchiha or Senju on a job rather than the guy who gets named the “god of shinobi” and his frenemy rival. They’ve seen the damage either clan can do, and now you want them to go against both? Without the guarantee of Madara and Hashirama (and Tobirama and Izuna pre the latter’s death) being too busy trying to kill each other to bother with you and your squishy clanmates? Hahahaha no.

And now here’s where the Shinobi Villages are a Union thing really starts to kick in. Because the Senju-Uchiha alliance grinding the Warring States cycle to a halt would have been temporary if it had just been between them, if Hashirama’s and Madara’s dream had gone no further than peace between their respective clans. If it had remained just the Senju-Uchiha alliance, even with fear of Hashirama and Madara, the other clans would have eventually been prodded into fighting them, likely even being hired by enough lords who were all unhappy with this shakeup to the routine to temporarily band together in fighting the Senju and Uchiha and overwhelm them (or at least badly cripple the manpower of the Senju-Uchiha).

But Hashirama’s and Madara’s dream wasn’t just about their clans. And suddenly here’s Hashirama “my smile is photosynthesizable” Senju and Madara “consider my wrath as your alternative” Uchiha approaching the other clans and offering to let them join this alliance. To not have the risk of fighting either of these terrifying men or their clans, but rather to pool their resources together to make missions safer. To be able to turn down missions without starving thanks to the combined revenue of multiple clans and their civilian specialties (and the backing of the Uzumaki, who are generally accepted by fanon to have allied with the Senju by this point via Mito’s marriage), and to have other clans be extremely wary of taking any job against their combined might, which will make the jobs they do take a whole lot safer.

Not every clan jumps on board right away of course, canonically the first ones to join the alliance were the Sarutobi and the Shimura (fanon assumes that these two had connections to the Senju and Uchiha clans before this but I … couldn’t find mention of that in the wiki?), which means suddenly any job this alliance takes means that a rival will be up against a roulette wheel of anywhere from “maybe four Senju like normal” to “combined wrath of a Senju-Uchiha-Sarutobi-Shimura team that are working out their collective new-alliance stress on your hide”. The other clans would have chosen to jump aboard the alliance very quickly once it became clear that this wasn’t going away or splintering. Which means more and more clans are saying “no” to jobs that they feel aren’t worth the prices being offered, and less and less clans are willing to go against the alliance for fear of being stomped on. Suddenly the clans who are in the alliance can not only say no but can say “I want to be paid this much for this job” and the lords who once had the option to just take their business to another clan are stuck. They had to either pay up or not have the job done at all.

Tobirama comes in, probably somewhere very early on in the village founding with the start of what will eventually be the universal shinobi mission ranking system, and with that comes the ability for shinobi to have a set minimum wage for each level of risk. There’s an Academy for their children to learn skills from multiple clans and sources now rather than being forced to take to the field just to help pay for food/armor/resources for the clan.

In the real world, this kind of change takes … way longer on average. But in the Naruto world the options from the get-go were “be under Hashirama’s and Madara’s protection” or “be a potential enemy against them and their clans on a mission”, and none of the shinobi clans who survived to that point did so by being stupid. After they saw the Sarutobi and Shimura join without negative consequences (or subjugation as vassals), the clans of Land of Fire would have started joining the alliance faster than the nobles who used their blood feuds as a handy leash could keep up with or compensate for. Canon says something along the lines of the village negotiating with the Daimyo for permission to be there but realistically by the time the Daimyo realized this was not just a passing treaty, that the Ninja Union was not going away, it was already far too late to stop it. Trying to starve the alliance into compliance by cutting off their trades would have only meant that every shinobi clan now on board with Konoha’s existence (read; the majority of them) would overthrow the Daimyo and install a more cooperative leader in his place. Heck, for all we know that’s what happened, it’s not like Kishi bothers to keep a coherent history or timeline. But considering the Daimyo does have a say in who the Hokage of the village is and they are enough at the Daimyo’s beck and call to fight in the future Shinobi Wars, it is more likely that the budding Konoha did successfully negotiate with the Daimyo for a “our loyalty and your nominal supervision over our village in exchange for extra land and free reign over our internal structure” kind of deal.

The clans being united was also an advantage for the Daimyo, once he got over the “can no longer charge whatever he wants for assassinations”. Because with all the Land of Fire clans unified, suddenly any upstart lords looking to depose him or wars he might get up to with other Daimyo look a lot more winnable. The other major Elemental nations, seeing this and realizing it’s not going away, probably scrambled to get their own clans to unify, which is one reason why Kiri is … such a disaster in canon. Rather than being a willing endeavor by the various clans to unite for their own benefit, the Daimyo of Water basically threw all his feral clans off their respective islands and territories and said “you all live here now and you all do what I tell you or else the Land of Fire will wipe us out”. Which, as you can see, went swimmingly for them (sarcasm). That or the other shinobi clans in the various nations did actually unionize of their own will once they saw it worked for Konoha, but Kiri never got the memo of “actually make peace with your rivals” and instead just clustered together in a feral knot of “we hate each other but we hate outsiders MORE so we’re going to pretend we actually function as a society”. Which lasted… Not long.

And there you go, another shinobi economics ramble. I feel like this one is even less structured than the last one but hey at least it’s like. 100 whole words shorter.

#Secret Engima Rambles #naruto #ninja economics #naruto worldbuilding #warring states era

[secret-engima]

At some point I will go weed through my followers again for bots. I know I need to. But I just do not have the spoons today for that so.

This is also the reason that I have not answered asks in forever. i see them, I appreciate them. I intend to answer them. But I just have not had the energy lately to like. Do that. So have patience with me ^^;. Thank you.

#Secret Engima Rambles #tumblr pls stop making this site less and less fun to visit I don't wanna leave #but you're taking all my mental energy man

[secret-engima]

I recently found this one soulmate fic where every time you loose something, it ends up with your soulmate.

Now please imagine how Interesting this might get in Nox verse, considering that both Nox and Ardyn have propensity for displacing their cell phones.

(Drautos tries to call Ardyn to report something important that he just learned in Niflheim. Except Ardyn is Not Answering for the longest time. After twenty minutes he finally gets through and opens with very cranky "How difficult it is to answer your phone, you bloody idiot?".

". . . Drautos?" says a Very Confused Cor who just found this random cell in his sock drawer.)

*wheezes*

That would be honestly so funny, especially if it happens with platonic soulmates and not just romantic ones.

Nox at least is *decentish* about not losing his stuff because he has armiger but that also means whenever he finds a Random Item in his camp he just assumes it's his somehow and tucks it away into armiger and forgets it exists so it is a VERY one-sided exchange most of the time when it comes to losing stuff.

He does wonder the first time he realizes some of the products he is finding in his possession are noticeably Feminine Oriented. And then depending on whether he knows soulmates are a thing or not this could lead to some very distressed shenanigans on his part.

Meanwhile Nyx is always kind of ecstatic when she finds something that isn't hers in the apartment because FINALLY. How organized IS her soulmate that he never loses anything ever?

Nox: *walking disaster vibes only staved off by his magic mary poppins level handbag*

I have no idea if you intended Cor and Ardyn to be romantic soulmates or platonic but I think platonic is WAY funnier so Cor just- finding a very battered unknown cellphone in his drawer and answering it and being- Drautos? Who are you calling?

Drautos: *internal screaming intensifies*

#SE asks #raven-6-10 asks #Secret Engima Rambles #Nox verse #soulmates #laugh tag

[secret-engima]

Konoha’s orphan system

BACK AT IT AGAIN BOISSSSSSS. So a few people expressed interest in hearing me ramble about my HCs for Konoha’s orphan welfare system (aka more reasons to hate Sarutobi Hiruzen), so I GUESS I’M DOING THAT. Before we get into this, just know these are 100% HCs that only acknowledge canon long enough to kick it in the nuts. I *did* try to make it reasonably canon compliant so that it could work for multiple aus (yes ppl can use these HCs in their fics if they want, just credit me pls :)) but canon is barely compliant with itself so…

With that out of the way. ONWARD.

The Konoha Orphan Welfare System was established by Tobirama sometime before the First Shinobi War, likely around the time there was a population boom of civilian inhabitants that were not tied to any shinobi clans. Now shinobi clans all have their own system for caring for in-clan orphans (some better, some worse), but the civilians, and specifically the rising population of civilian born shinobi … didn’t have that. If the parents died and there either wasn’t any close family to take them in or the close family that remained were somehow unable/unsuitable for it, then you had kids on the streets and that is both against the literal reason for Konoha’s founding and also a security hazard, so Tobirama set up the orphan system in a way that could be expanded upon as the population required going forward.

The first layer of the system are the Konoha orphanages. While there was likely only one or two to start with in Konoha’s early days, by now there have to be more. Depending on where you estimate Konoha’s total population sits (I have been informed that canon references like- 80k exactly once?? But I don’t remember and I cannot find it on the wiki so *yeets*) I’m going to spitball and say there is somewhere around 10 large orphanages in Naruto’s time. That is probably nowhere near enough orphanages but in CANON we have Literally One so baby step improvements people.

Now, when a child of civilian or shinobi parents is orphaned, there’s a call put out in Konoha (and *only* Konoha, again, ninja security concerns) for relatives who can come take the child. If no one steps forward in a week’s time, then the child is put into the orphanage system. During wartime, this layer of the system tends to get overcrowded for … obvious reasons, especially with refugee children like Kabuto being shuffled into the orphanages alongside born Konohans. Any child from infancy to age 6 (academy starting age) lives in these orphanages under the care of the Matrons who run it, some of whom are civilians, but a good portion are actually retired shinobi (male and female, similar to nurse, the term is gender neutral in this context), I will come back to that in a hot second. Now, during wartime, again, this system can get backed up and so you’ll have kids above the age of 6 still living there as was the case with canon Kabuto. But when *not* clogged by a refugee/orphan influx, the next stage of the system are the Orphan Apartments.

At the age of 6 (or when there are openings during overcrowded times), kids are sat down by the Matrons and given the choice to join the Ninja Academy or not. Obviously since this is a shinobi village they are encouraged to take that route, but they are actually allowed other options, and kids who have things like physical disabilities are sometimes encouraged to stay out of Academy instead. Whether they are in Academy or not, they are then moved out of the orphanage they live in and moved into the Orphan Apartments.

Orphan Apartments are multistory buildings funded by Konoha and consist of a base floor with a common kitchen, common washroom for clothes, and storage room for extra blankets/bedding/etc. The floors above that are small, one room apartments, 11 per floor, as well as a group shower room (the apartments have water closets). 10 of these are given to the kids, one per apartment (barring twins/triplets/etc, who share an apartment), and the 11th belongs to the Floor Caretaker. The Floor Caretakers are all retired shinobi who have some reason for no longer being able to take missions, either ones who willingly chose to retire (rare) or ones who have lost limbs or suffered some other kind of disability and are no longer considered fit to serve on missions above a D-rank.

The Floor Caretakers are in charge of making sure the 10 kids on their floor are fed and healthy, as well as teaching them basic life skills like budgeting their orphan allowance, how to safely use appliances like washers/dryers, how to cook basic healthy meals, etc. They also help them with schoolwork if necessary and crucially, for the Academy students, teach them additional chakra exercises, weapon basics and other skills that the clan children would already have been taught, in order to help ensure the orphans aren’t all left in the dust by their counterparts. For Academy students living in the Orphan Apartments, they will be there until they graduate, at which point they will be moved to a genin apartment complex (there are lots of apartment complexes that cater to a specific rank of shinobi, with each rank having a set rent based on the average “a shinobi of this rank should be able to make at *least* enough to handle this on top of food” income. Of course, if an orphan is adopted pre-graduation, they will move instead into the home of their new family, freeing up the apartment for another orphan out of the orphanage.

Speaking of ADOPTION.

Any child in the orphanage or orphan apartments is up for adoption, obviously, but most adoptions don’t happen until a kid moves into the orphan apartments and has been added to either the Academy track or not. The Floor Caretakers compile regular reports on each kid on their floor to show to interested (and vetted) potential parents. Many clans choose to add new blood via adoption of a promising orphan rather than relying on marriage (though it is likely if the orphan marries later it will be to someone who has the clan blood), and will send discreet shinobi members to observe (spy) on the prospective kids for a second opinion rather than solely rely on the Floor Caretakers’ reports.

Children who are not on the Academy track tend to get adopted out more often than their shinobi counterparts, this is because children who are not going to Academy are instead encouraged to become an apprentice of one of the many professions keeping Konoha running. Adults who take an orphaned apprentice also become their legal guardian in the eyes of Konoha, until they have achieved mastery or reached the age of 17, whichever comes first, and are required to be able to adequately house, clothe, and feed any apprentice they seek to take before they are allowed to adopt/apprentice them.

Shinobi clans will often keep a close eye on non-Academy orphans as much if not more than Academy orphans, as each clan does have civilian specialties to pass on and enough shared resources to enable the adoption fairly easily. Apprenticed orphans are expected to work to pay off their “debt” to Konoha for 5 years, during which up to a third of any income they make will be taxed to Konoha. As apprentices *are* paid during the latter half of their apprenticeship, it’s usually expected that the apprentice will still be living with and at least partially provided for by their guardian/master during those years of service and so aren’t at risk of being taxed right out of house and home or anything. The point is to make more artisans and masters of needed crafts, not create a homeless population that poses a security risk remember.

Orphans who are either Academy students or apprentices can also be Sponsored. A sponsor is different from a formal adoption, and adopted orphans don’t lose their Sponsor if they are adopted down the line. Sponsors are … well basically anyone who has good standing in Konoha and at least *some* money to back it up. These can be retired jounin, retired *ANBU*, civilians who’s family have been in Konoha for at least 3 generations, or businesses who have been in Konoha for more than twenty years (and also aren’t owned by a new resident to Konoha, again, paranoid ninja security reasons). Sponsors can only sponsor up to three orphans at a time. A Sponsor will provide additional funds for clothing, equipment of the orphan’s intended profession (shinobi tools/protective mesh for Academy students, tools for any apprentices of a certain profession), as well as additional learning opportunities.

To use an Academy student for an example, a sponsored Academy orphan will be able to petition their Sponsor for money to pay for better equipment, and if they take an interest in a specific skillset, the Sponsor will use their influence to help procure additional training or mentorship in that skillset. An Academy orphan with a sponsor who takes an interest in becoming a kenjutsu practitioner, for example, won’t have to wait and hope their future genin sensei is proficient in a sword. Instead they can petition their Sponsor, who can then use either money or connections to secure a teacher in kenjutsu. Sponsors, in turn, can expect something in return once the Academy student graduates. For civilian Sponsors this is *usually* just being given priority by that shinobi for any missions they put forth in the future (or a discount for services rendered if the orphan is a civilian apprentice instead of a shinobi). Business establishments also get discounts or priority treatment from the orphans they sponsor. Some businesses that employ shinobi on the regular as security intentionally Sponsor orphans who only want to become career genin or chuunin, since those are far more willing to take “boring” long term jobs than a shinobi looking to climb the ranks and become a jounin (and are less likely to be pulled and sent off on a risky A or S-rank down the line).

Jounin who are retired also use this system as a roundabout way of passing on their skillset or encouraging talented young shinobi without having to worry about actually adopting a kid. ANBU agents in particular don’t necessarily have time or the mental balance to adopt a kid, but if an orphan catches their eye, they can Sponsor them to help them get the resources to excel, whether or not that kid ever grows up to join ANBU.

Okay so. With all that- mostly covered and hopefully I’m not forgetting any gaping holes in my worldbuilding, you might be wondering “how does Naruto’s and Sasuke’s horrible childhoods fit into this???” To which I say:

Shimura Danzo and Sarutobi Hiruzen.

Remember that bit I said earlier? That *all* orphans in the orphanage and orphan apartments are up for adoption so long as they live there? Remember how I also mentioned that *clans* usually have their own in-clan system for dealing with clan orphans and so those don’t get put in Konoha’s system? Welllll.

To start with Naruto: Naruto by rights *should* have never entered the orphan system, since he has a godfather (Jiraiya) and presumably a godmother (I do not know if it’s *canon*, but the fanon I see everywhere is Mikoto, which makes sense considering she was canonically good friends with Kushina). But Jiraiya is a (horrible no good waste of space) spymaster who lives on the road and Mikoto is an Uchiha, which Danzo has been subverting for years and in fact was still subverting *while* the Kyuubi was rampaging everywhere. Iirc he’s the one who ordered the Uchiha to not engage and instead stay back and guard the civilian bunkers, which led to a lot of rumors (that he also started) about the Uchiha’s “suspicious” involvement in the Kyuubi attack. Hiruzen is a pushover when it comes to his old “friends”, we see this in canon, and especially to Danzo, so it’s no wonder why Mikoto was never allowed to claim custody of Naruto even if you fanon that she was his godmother and had a legal right to him.

So what about the other clans? Minato was incredibly popular and beloved, the other clans by rights should have been fully willing to take Naruto in, even with the whole- Kyuubi Jinchuuriki business. But then you have to consider the Politics™ of the situation. Jinchuuriki are considered less people and more living nuke repositories. We see this all over canon, in literally every village. If a Jinchuuriki’s identity is known, they are shunned and feared. So handing Naruto over to another clan would not, politically, have been seen as giving a child into the custody of someone who can raise him, but rather handing *one* clan the keys to immense power that the other clans wouldn’t be able to fight against. Massive power imbalance. Which Hiruzen wouldn’t want in the wake of the Kyuubi attack and then like 3 years later the Hyuuga Incident, and Danzo certainly wouldn’t want because he’s a paranoid old coot who thinks that the only person who can be trusted with ultimate power is himself. So Naruto is, politically, kind of impossible to adopt without majorly upsetting the power balance of the clans.

So. If we want to be *generous* and assume Hiruzen didn’t default directly to sticking Naruto in a shoddy apartment on his own when he was a literal infant, what he probably did was try to loophole his way out of the situation by not revealing Naruto’s parentage to anyone if he could help it and submitting Naruto into the orphan system during the high influx of post-kyuubi orphans in the hopes that Naruto would skate through unnoticed until Hiruzen could either arrange for a civilian family to adopt him or just hope that Naruto can slide by unnoticed in the system until he’s a genin and leaves the orphanage/orphan apartments.

Cue red-eyed t-posing Danzo meme. Because of course Danzo wouldn’t want a “weapon” like Naruto to fall into the hands of cushy civilians. Danzo is at fault for the entire campaign to smear and isolate and then kill an entire founding clan of Konoha, spreading the rumors that Naruto is actually the Kyuubi in human form or other such things is absolutely within his preferred method of isolating perceived problems. So Danzo has a few key people leak Naruto’s existence as Not A Normal Child throughout the village, causing a grieving, traumatized village to pick him as their scapegoat of choice, which meant Naruto would never be adopted by civilians. Because the civilians would either hate him or be too afraid of the reprisal of their neighbors if they went near him. With the civilian option shredded, and also the anonymity that could have let him skate through the orphan apartments unadopted until his genin years also destroyed, Hiruzen’s options are then “have this child raised outside the system entirely” or “give the child to Danzo and Root” and Hiruzen at least had the braincells to realize giving his old friend who has tried to murder him in the past a *whole entire Jinchuuriki* was a terrible idea. So into a slummy apartment all on his own the toddler goes. As for why it was a slummy apartment and not being raised by Hiruzen himself?

*Points back to the clan power imbalance thing*, *points at Hiruzen being a pushover doormat who let Kumo behead a HYUUGA TWIN BROTHER OF THE CLAN  HEAD to avoid conflict*.

As for Sasuke, very similar deal. Konoha’s system was never set up with the total annihilation of a clan in one fell swoop in mind. A mass genocide like that was just- never meant to happen. Sure clans can dwindle and die out during wartime (see- the Hatake clan), but that was not an instant process, there is supposed to be time for a dwindling clan to see the worst coming and prepare for it, make arrangements for what they want to happen to any orphaned kids if the clan adults all die out. Sasuke didn’t have that, and the Uchiha *had* no system in place. Arguably if they had a system for such a catastrophe in mind it likely would have been an agreement between them and the Senju, that either clan would take on the orphans of the other if the worst should happen. But by that point the Senju clan is just Tsunade, who has already run for the hills years ago.

Once again, Sasuke got treated less as a child in need of help and more as a political piece that no one could claim without causing a riot among the other clans for the imbalance. Now I’ve seen different fanon on if Sasuke grew up in the empty clan compound or had an apartment in Konoha, and canon has … literally *both* interpretation depending on *what flashback episode you are watching* so either Sasuke got taken out of the compound and moved into a genin apartment that Hiruzen paid for out of guild (not orphan apartments because again, anyone in there is available for adoption by legal default), or Sasuke just had to suck in up and live with ghosts for 6 years, which did his head NO FAVORS.

ADD TO THIS is Danzo again, who categorically would not want Sasuke to get help of any kind. Because Sasuke is a loose thread that he can’t take care of himself. Canonically, before Itachi leaves after the clan is dead, Itachi goes to Danzo and says something like “you do anything to Sasuke and I will come for your head and air all of your dirty laundry to Konoha on my way in”. If Danzo is seen taking Sasuke into ROOT, or killing him, or harming him, then Itachi will come for him. But if Sasuke is just … benignly neglected by Konoha as a whole to the point of death or defection … well that’s not his fault. His hands are tied.

I could *also* at this point go on a long ramble of my personal hcs that it’s REALLY INTERESTING that Shippudden introduces the glorified radar seal keeping track of any intrusion into Konoha and yet Orochimaru (who has worked with Danzo before to commit inconvenient warcrimes) and Sound Four (who work for Orochimaru) managed to get in multiple times specifically to try to kidnap and subvert Sasuke (thereby taking him out of Konoha without Danzo being to blame and making it far more likely he will be killed by a third party and thus is no longer a loose thread in Danzo’s machinations). And yes I know it’s actually just an example of Kishi’s swiss cheese worldbuilding but I just went on a 3k rant about an orphan system I made up wholesale to deal with those holes SO. But I think I’ve rambled enough for one post so I will leave that there.

#Secret Engima Rambles #naruto worldbuilding #ninja economics #my headcanons #naruto #konoha #this probably has holes in it #but I TRIED MORE THAN KISHI DARNIT #HEY REMEMBER THAT TIME DANZO TOOK OVER AS HOKAGE #AND THE FIRST THING HE DID WAS PUT A BOUNTY ON SASUKE'S HEAD #WOW RANDOM HUH #ESPECIALLY FOR THE GUY WHO'S BEEN ADVOCATING WW4 FOR YEARS #TO JUST PUT A BOUNTY ON SOMEONE'S HEAD SUPPOSEDLY BECAUSE THEY ASSASSINATED A RIVAL VILLAGE'S JINCHUURIKI #okay i will shut up now

[secret-engima]

Do you know who would make the funniest time travel blorbo for a Naruto time travel au.

Mitsuki from Boruto.

yes I’m biased but hear me out. Mitsuki is exactly the brand of overpowered but *actually sneaky about it* to be able to cause maximum chaos in whatever time period he lands in. He’s respectful when he wants to be, just enough ignorance over Social Cues to lead to some very hilarious misunderstandings, cunning enough to not instantly blow his cover as a time traveler but feral enough that if he decides his best option to deal with a problem is Explosions well *time for explosions :)*.

Also if you threw him at Warring States Era specifically then he would absolutely be mistaken for some kind of youkai, which is *even funnier*. Because yeah shinobi clans can look pretty wild and feral but Mitsuki has an entire other level of Well Meaning Creetur Pretending To Human thanks to his entire upbringing and origins that would completely freak out WSE shinobi.

The SECOND funniest option for time travel would be Sumire.

Because again, feral child with skills to infiltrate, but with a side package of literal otherworldly space cat animal friend that is willing to help her steamroll over problems.

Maximum chaos would, of course, be both of them time traveling together for some reason without any of the Boruto cast Braincells there to convince them not to Be As Feral As Possible. No matter what era they land in. Naruto OG era, Minato era, or Warring States Era, they are bound to cause Maximum Chaos™.

Arguably if you really wanted the world to tremble in confused fear you could also add Inojin to the pool, but then you would honestly need to add Shikadai or else the timeline might genuinely implode from sheer Gremlin Energy.

#Secret Engima Rambles #naruto #boruto #au ideas #...i should one shot these #feel free to enable this idea in my ask box

[secret-engima]

*dramatically leaps down from Hokage mountain like an anime op*

HI I HAVE MORE UCHIHA CLAN THOUGHTS.

-I’ve seen the HC floating around that the Uchiha are really ableist about blindness and people with vision problems, like ostracizing a clan member etc. To which I say LIES AND SLANDER.

-This is one of the *only* dojutsu clans in canon, and the *only* one who canonically go permanently blind from overuse of their ability. Hinata in canon only went blind for a few days from eye strain, but with Uchiha the only time we see vision loss mentioned it’s *permanent* unless they get an eye transplant. Now blindness is only mentioned in canon specifically in relation to specific op abilities (Izanagi and Izanami) and the mangekyo sharingan, but the fact that blindness is *baked in* to the most powerful sharingan evolution and abilities indicates that eye strain is a very common problem for Uchiha, and it’s not unreasonable to assume that Uchiha who grow old are at high risk of eventually just. Going blind. It’s not from the mangekyo, it’s not even really from sharingan overuse. It’s because the sharingan is hyper evolved for perfect vision and so as an Uchiha gets older and their body naturally starts to degrade one of the things that tends to break down is the chakra pathways that allow the sharingan to work, and once those are gone, the brain probably just- stops being able to process the data the eye is transmitting. Because Finicky Brain Things.

-Not saying that every Uchiha goes blind if they go old, but I’m just sitting here thinking that it’s probably a very common problem. It’s the Uchiha version of going bald when you get old. It’s *natural*.

-On top of that, something that would definitely have cropped up more often in the Warring States and pre-Warring States eras would be Uchiha being *born* blind. Again, that kind of evolution that enables the sharingan is *finicky*, especially when it’s being developed. So stuff like really bad sickness during pregnancy, premature birth, or even injury from the mother being attacked (or being on the battlefield before she knew she was pregnant) could all contribute to an Uchiha child being born straight up blind, or at least super near-sighted.

-Once Konoha was founded and things were just- in general safer/more stable for Uchiha mothers as well as the advancements in medicine, this risk would have gone wayyy down, but it would still be like. A Known Thing. There would be clan superstitions about ways to help prevent the baby from being born blind.

-Anyway what I’m getting at is blindness is a known thing in daily life of an Uchiha and *they would account for that*. While I can see there being old clan laws about blindness affecting inheritability of like- high ranking positions in the clan (since they are a shinobi clan and thus high ranking positions are directly tied to shinobi capability), overall the Uchiha would probably be the *least* ableist about blindness in their members? I can easily see them being the ones to have rigidly organized streets to make for easier navigation, a specific pattern of houses and streets so that you can find your way to and from a place by sheer memorization. Houses all probably have a similar layout of rooms, if not furniture, to again assist in any navigation problems.

-For heavens sake the three *known* Uchiha-related contracts are Crows, Hawks, and *House Cats* (Hawks are in canon only related to Sasuke, but since we never have any canon explanation on where he got them- *points at the old Uchiha fortresses scattered around Land of Fire*. And as for the cats, they’re the same thing, we see ninja cats in Neko-baa’s place and she is specifically an *Uchiha* weapon/supply provider). None of those are strictly combat summons unless you have the chops to summon a cat the size of a house or something but do you know what all three of those are really good at? *Navigation*. The two bird species both have very good vision, and cats have excellent night vision on top of just being generally really good at finding their way around. Plus, all three are feasibly small enough to be near or on a person at all times.

-These people literally have three very good to perfect contracts for *seeing eye animals*, and I know Kishi in no way intended that since Kishi world builds in the same way a goldfish contemplates philosophy, but these tools and ideas are there and I’m gonna use them to make something interesting and coherent doggonit.

#Secret Engima Rambles #naruto worldbuilding #uchiha clan culture #uchiha clan #naruto #*yells softly*

[secret-engima]

Snippet of Pebbles verse chap 8

     Madara had expected that of all the people to break the ceasefire following Butsuma’s death, Hashirama’s little brother would be near the top of the list. With a close competitor being Madara’s own father but, for better or worse, Tajima had been leaving more and more of clan head duties to Madara since the deep cough last winter had nearly taken him. Officially, Madara was still only the heir until he married, as per tradition, but with his father spending most of his time at home or supervising the forges, most of his snarling over the ceasefire was contained only to the ears of those who wouldn’t actually go out and follow through on it. Some were even whispering that Madara might ascend to the clan headship before his arranged marriage took place, but none of them wanted to go through with the upheaval that would cause, however minor, while the ceasefire hung by a thread.

     A thread that, if Izuna was right, Tobirama had chosen not to cut.

     Izuna’s cursing was winding down again, enough that Madara pulled out of his thoughts and nodded to Izuna’s fist, “Are you holding something?” Izuna usually gestured with open hands, not fists.

     His little brother pulled his fist close to his chest just like when he was six and hiding a stolen snack, “No.”

     “…Izuna are you still holding one of the-?”

     Izuna lunged for him over the writing desk and Madara shunshined away with his little brother’s shriek ringing in his ears, “I am not and it’s mine-!” He fled deeper into the compound to find something to do until Izuna had actually calmed down enough to stash the marble he was definitely still holding from the incident.

#Secret Engima Rambles #Melodies and Manuscripts #Pebbles verse #Shisui Time Travel verse #evil laughter

[secret-engima]

Hey hey wanna know what the most consistent worldbuilding in Naruto Arguably Canon is?

...

It’s how the time travel works. That’s the most consistent worldbuilding I’ve seen in Naruto, yes even more than basic stuff like water and wall walking.

In the movie Lost Tower (which yes I know movies are not technically canon except for the Last Movie and Boruto, shut up they make as much world building/timeline sense as the rest of the actual show), the time travel there is a stable loop in which the characters have their adventure, something causes them to forget it when it’s over, but there are lingering after effects that prove it was real. The time travel started because it had already happened. The setting Naruto walked into was the aftermath of the adventure he was about to take (to avoid being too spoilery) and you can see the after effects in his present once he returns to his proper time in the form of some character interaction and items (specifically a chakra blade he gave to someone in the past, and when he gets to his present, the granddaughter of that person has it as a family heirloom).

In BORUTO there is a time travel filler arc (yes you read that right) and it is ALSO a stable loop. The characters were *always* meant to go back in time for a bit, even though the past characters forget their presence in their timeline once the loop ends, and there are lingering after effects in Boruto’s present that are a direct consequence of his presence (specifically one of the modern conveniences that shows up in the show frequently turns out to have been invented because the *guy who invented it* overheard Boruto complaining to himself that “X thing isn’t around” and he thought it sounded like a pretty neat idea and decided to make it). Like-

Ya’ll might not understand how big a deal this is to me. That of all things it’s the TIME TRAVEL that is fully consistent. There are full on movies and shows and franchises where time travel is a MAJOR COMPONENT to the plot that do not keep their time travel consistent like this. Like- TERMINATOR. Terminator 1 is a stable loop, while Terminator- I think it’s 2? At least 2 is instead a Butterfly Effect style time travel where stuff majorly changes based on actions of the time traveler rather than the time traveler’s presence having kicked off some or all of the events that led to their time travel in the first place, or at least part of the present they came from.

AND NARUTO IS CONSISTENT WITH THIS.

COMPLETELY BY ACCIDENT. and you know it was accidental because it’s KISHI and he can’t even keep his character’s BIRTHDAYS consistent. Like-

*gestures aggressively* HOW. OF ALL THE ACCIDENTAL CONSISTENCIES HOW IS THIS LIKE THE TOP ONE.

I can oNLY assume that whoever was in charge of that filler arc is a fan of Lost Tower and decided to follow the time travel rules that movie set up. Considering another filler also used Blood Prison as a setting and another one referenced Land of Snow ... it would make sense?

#Secret Engima Rambles #naruto #naruto worldbuilding #naruto time travel

[secret-engima]

As someone who has been in the Naruto fandom for *years* via reading fic well before I actually watched the show or started writing for it, I have only just now realized that my perspective on fandoms for trash-fire shows is skewed.

For instance when I say that “kishi’s timeline is garbage” the majority of the fandom who is also in Naruto for the fic and especially those who’ve had to try to make sense of his mishmash of conflicting dates or *lack* of dates understands that I’m not saying I hate the show, just that the timeline is. You know. Garbage. That, as a professional writer, he should really be better at managing his own timeline, especially when the majority of his fans are able to crack it open and make *multiple better versions* out of it. That doesn’t mean I dislike Naruto the show (save for the really tiresome parts nobody likes), I just enjoy cracking open canon and picking out the juicy bits for fic, or reading stories of others doing the same and like-.

As a whole, the majority of the Naruto fandom I have ever encountered over the years is in that same boat as me to some degree or other.

And now I’m getting back into writing rwby fic and I have come to the amused realization that this is, apparently, an unacceptable point of view to Certain Parts of the RWBY Fandom. Apparently, a random internet nobody like me sarcastically talking about how RT’s timeline skills suck and using what is in Naruto fandom a *very common joke* about “killing canon” is some kind of grave offense. Who knew!

I just thought that was amusing enough to comment on, now excuse me while I get back to lovingly shredding open rwby canon so I can pick out the fun bits for my fanfic, just like I do Naruto.

#Secret Engima Rambles #rwby #naruto #thoughts on the fandom #I make a point to avoid Discourse where i can usually #but this time it apparently came to me

[secret-engima]

Snippet of Pebbles verse Chap 8

He stopped. If they had been farther apart, or if Madara had not been looking for it, the Senju would have looked like a blank slate.

     Looking for it however, Madara could see the conflicted micro-expressions, the mix of passion-doubt-grief. Madara finished the sentence for him, “To risk being killed too young.”

     Red eyes flicked toward him, meeting his eyes for a split second before looking away over the valley again, “There are too many knee high graves already.” It was not a direct response, but it was an answer.

     Madara rocked back on his heels, mind spinning. Of course he had thought of the village when he could, had dreamed of Senju and Uchiha children growing up side by side without risk of pain or heartache, no longer being forced to die on the battlefield before their time. But Tobirama had taken it a step further, hadn’t he? He had thought of how to keep them from dying so young. How to bring each generation closer together simply by gathering the children in one place and teaching them as equals, sorting them into groups, multiple stages of learning and tightly controlled risk that actually make strides for the core of his and Hashirama’s dream; protecting the children. And of all the people to put such intricate, practical thought into the dream, it had been the White-.

     No.

     It had been Hashirama’s brother. And maybe that was a distinction that Madara should have focused on more than his blood connection and obedience to the previous Senju clan head. But from how he acted on the battlefield, how could Madara have ever imagined that such a mind and passion for peace existed in the younger man? “You have put a great deal of thought into Hashirama’s dream.”

     “It is more than just his dream,” Tobirama retorted quietly, and Madara considered the ceasefire unbroken for longer than he had ever hoped possible, the intricate, concrete plans for something unlike anything the world had yet seen.

     “Fair enough, but what convinced you that peace was even possible between our clans? Hashirama certainly never mentioned his brother having a childhood Uchiha friend.”

     Grief flashed through Tobirama’s features so quickly that if Madara had not been daring to stare right at him, he would have missed it. The flicker of the eyes, the tilt of the mouth and bob of the throat that all rang with the pain of the heart. The kind of quiet, deeply rooted pain that came from loss, mingled with the guilt of any loved one who would spend the rest of their life wondering if there was something, anything, they could have done to stop what was now set in bleeding, heartbroken stone. “Some lessons,” Tobirama whispered, “are only learned too late. All we can do after … is pick up the pieces left behind and carry them with us to try to make something better than what was broken.”

#Pebbles verse #Shisui Time Travel verse #Secret Engima Rambles #EHEHEHEHHEHEHE #I GIVE YOU NO CONTEXT FOR HOW THESE TWO ARE HAVING A CONVERSATION

[secret-engima]

Hey, are you ok? I haven’t seen you post in a while so I’m a bit worried.

Sorry for the delay and any worry I caused! I'm doing okay. Just taking a break from Tumblr in some respects and busy with other rl projects in others :). I recently took up jewelry making as a hobby and it's been fun, but time consuming, so that's partly where I've been.

Also been scrambling to make sure I have a backlog of stories for my Patreon. Not that I need to scramble, I *have* several months' worth. But I fret so I want it to be a bigger backlog just in case.

#SE asks #any-mouse asks #Secret Engima Rambles

[secret-engima]

NYXSUKEEEEEEEE

IT'S MY BOYYYYYYYYY.

I commissioned @akinaw to draw Nyxsuke in his Naruto og/genin stage and she did SUCH AN AMAZING JOB. Look at him. He is so cute and amazing. Small Galahdian Uchiha child out here calmly preparing to sow chaos in Ninja society.

And because I do not trust that tumblr will actually tag Akinaw, here's a LINK to her tumblr if you wanna look at her art and maybe commission her too!

@a-world-in-grey LOOK AT MY BOY.

#Calling for Rain verse #Calling for Rain fanart #Secret Engima Rambles #I LOVE IT SO MUCH