i honestly really dislike the palace rulers being treated so drastically different from akechi in the fandom. even though there's still people who refuse to say anything positive about akechi because he's a terrible guy, the majority of the fandom still treats him like a character and read into his backstory, behaviour, and motivations.
but when it comes to the palace rulers, there's not a single ounce of that attitude for them. it's so strange because not even the story itself has such a crazy bias; the same amount of sympathy towards akechi is given towards the palace rulers too. madarame and okumura are my most obvious examples, with yusuke often expressing his conflicting feelings on the matter, and haru learning about her father's motivations through takakura during her confidant.
in that sense, joker and akechi's relationship parallels that of haru/yusuke and the respective father figure; the two mutually love and care for each other, but unfortunately, one cares more for themselves and it causes their bond to break.
the cut backstories for the palace rulers add a lot to their character, and maybe that's why i like them so much. it makes them feel as rounded out as akechi was (in vanilla, i know he's much more humanized in royal's third semester. that might add to the bias, actually) and it makes me feel kind of bad for those sick, twisted bastards.
but obviously, that content was cut, and it's not very widespread knowledge, unlike akechi's backstory which he explains in-game, right in your face, unavoidably.
there's also this thing i've noticed that i call "fandom activism" where any deep analysis into a good-written character that is a genuinely bad person is seen as condoning their actions because WE ALWAYS HAVE TO SHUN THE EVIL GUY!!! WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT THEM IN CASUAL CONVERSATION!!! WE NEED TO HOLD A FICTIONAL CHARACTER ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE NOT REAL AND...... the way we treat them makes no difference in the world? huh.
personally, i was informed that the way i talk about kamoshida makes people uncomfortable. it's not like i said anything creepy about him, all i do is read into him the same way one would with akechi. he's a genuinely good villain, the same way akechi is! and his mindset is really interesting to look into!!!!! i think they're all missing out!!!!!!!!
my last line of defense is that the palace rulers are unfortunately made way less conventionally attractive than akechi is. that's something i don't like about them, and the fact that everyone lets that sway their opinions of them even less. i know atlus pulls the "make the unsympathetic character ugly" shtick a lot and it's suuuuuuuuuuck.
yeah. i'm kind of peeved about this and i thought you were the best person to send this to. kaneshiro isn't a cute twink but i'm still going to love him with the little attention he gets........... :')
FRICKEN NAILED IT THERE! NICE JOB!👍👍👍😭😭😭 AND I CAN RELATE TO YOUR PAIN AND STRUGGLES!
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Unused Akechi Thieves Den conversations
There are some unused Thieves Den conversations that Akechi had with the other PTs, so I wanted to show them here. This is a long post btw.
Zorro - Yusuke & Akechi convo
Yusuke: ......
Akechi: You're looking at that Persona rather intently. Is he that intriguing?
Yusuke: Absolutely. It is an unparalleled luxury to lay sight on the physical manifestation of another's self-image. Not just any artist can claim to have borne witness to the likes of Personas, or Mementos. It would be foolish not to use this opportunity to incorporate these concepts into an art piece.
Akechi: I... see. Well, you have fun with that.
Yusuke: Ah, before you go. Would you be so kind as to show me your own Persona? I'd love to use him as a model for one of my sketches.
Akechi: ...I'm going to have to decline.
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Goro doesn’t want to model for Yusuke lol
Robin Hood - Ann & Akechi convo
Ann: Seeing this reminds me of the days you still acted like a prince. Things have gotten pretty dark since then...
Akechi: Complain all you like, but this is who I am. I'm not going to change back.
Ann: I'm not complaining. It's better to know you're being honest and not hiding anything from us.
Akechi: Honest, huh.
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I like how Ann is accepting of Goro’s true self.
Robin Hood - Sumire & Akechi convo
Sumire: This Persona is yours, Akechi-senpai? I'm surprised. It's very, um... noble.
Akechi: Ah, that's right. I suppose you've never seen this one.
Sumire: Never! Do you fight with it the same way? You know, "Muahahahaaa! You're all gonna die! Sayonara, suckers!"
Akechi: Heh. Are you mocking me?
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Sumire’s friendship with Goro is so adorable!
Robin Hood - Ryuji, Ann & Akechi convo
Ryuji: It ain't fair that he gets to have two Personas. Aren't you kinda jealous?
Ann: Sometimes. Is it something you can train yourself to do?
Akechi: Personas are part of your personality, correct? Why don't you try acting like someone you're not?
Ryuji: Dammit, Akechi!
Akechi: Down, boy. Learn to take a jo—
Ryuji: You're a frickin' genius! Let's do it!
Ann: Good idea! I wonder what I should act like...
Akechi: Hah. And here I thought I'd seen the limits of your idiocy.
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Goro was like “Why don’t you try being a wildcard?”. It ain’t that easy though lol
Morgana Car - Akechi, Ryuji & Yusuke convo
Akechi: This car was a lot more comfortable than I expected. I can't say I mind it.
Ryuji: Dude, have you forgotten how bumpy that shit was in Mementos? I thought my ass was gonna split in half.
Yusuke: Agreed on the bumpiness. It was rather effective at abating my hunger, though.
Akechi: I don't usually ride in cars with such weak suspension. It was a new experience for me.
Ryuji: THAT'S what you call it!?
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You learn something new everyday.
Kamoshida Statue - Sae & Akechi convo
Sae: Honestly, when I heard there was a teacher like this at Makoto's school, my blood ran cold.
Akechi: If it was that much of a concern, why didn't you bring it up with the faculty?
Sae: It's not that simple.
Akechi: You should be more upfront about your feelings. Then again, I suppose you are who you are.
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Did Kamoshida had some way of making the students’ parents/guardians not complain about him? Is that why Mishima was like “the parents know but don’t care”?
Kaneshiro (Ruler Form) - Makoto, Ryuji & Akechi convo
Makoto: Say, Kaneshiro mentioned that there was someone using other people's Palaces to do whatever they pleased...
Akechi: Yeah. I suppose that was me. I'm surprised a petty criminal like him had caught wind of me, though.
Ryuji: But Shido's the one who was takin' advantage, yeah? I thought you were just followin' orders.
Akechi: Hm... It's not quite that simple.
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What do you mean by that Goro? Do you have more freedom when you’re in palaces or something because the conspiracy is not aware of what goes on in there?
Shido (Ruler Form) - Akechi & Sae convo
Akechi: I never thought the scheme would end with Shido. I always assumed some other monster would take up his mantle.
Sae: Even so, I'd already decided that I wouldn't give up on exposing the guilty parties. ...I want to keep my faith in justice.
Akechi: Oh? Something so cliché coming from you is rather surprising, Sae-san. I suspect the Phantom Thieves have rubbed off on you quite a bit.
Sae: That's a possibility. Maybe you could do with some change yourself? Like, drop the "cool customer" act and just live in the moment?
Akechi: Hah! Surely you jest. I'll pass.
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Oh Goro is putting up his Detective Prince act on this one.
Interrogation Room - Akechi & Morgana convo
Akechi: How nostalgic... It makes me sick to remember that day. I can't believe I was so thoroughly tricked.
Morgana: It was quite a gamble on our end. But ultimately, our justice saw the light.
Akechi: Justice, huh... Sure, let's leave it at that.
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Sounds like Goro doesn’t believe Morgana there.
Penguin Sniper - Ryuji & Akechi convo
Ryuji: Pool's pretty fun once ya get used to it. Aight Akechi, let's go a round! It's time for the Ultra Mega Poolin' Schoolin'!
Akechi: Ignoring that ludicrous title... Do you honestly wish to play against me?
Ryuji: I'm a man of my word! I know I got no chance when it comes to brainy stuff, but this? I can take ya. Or what, are you chicken?
Akechi: Heh, of course not. Sure, I'll play a round. And I won't be holding back.
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I think Goro is gonna use his right hand, but Ryuji you should still prepare yourself. 👀
Loki - Yusuke & Makoto convo
(Akechi is not in this unused convo but the convo is about him)
Yusuke: To think we would fight side-by-side with Akechi once more... His personality seems to have shifted, though. It's a far cry from the Detective Prince we once knew.
Makoto: That is true... But somehow, I think it made him easier to talk to. He's honest with us, at least. I don't worry about him hiding things anymore.
Yusuke: Yes... His murderous screeching may be unsettling, but I've come to realize that is simply a part of who he is. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to paint a portrait of him, knowing this...
Makoto: If you do, I'd love to see it. ...I'd like to hear what he thinks of it, too.
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Murderous screeching LOL! Again Yusuke, Goro will not model for you 😆
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and that’s all of the unused Goro convos in the Thieves Den.
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