#The Emperor's Coven | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

mdhwrites · 6 months

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Would you consider explaining here, in your opinion, the decline of the Emperor's Coven as an antagonistic force or even broadly as a concept within TOH's world? And - if you don't mind me asking - do you think it had that much of an adverse effect on the series?

So I'm going to break this up into two sections to answer the two questions here. The first is going to be their decline and then why that had an actually pretty big adverse effect though not one you'll immediately feel. I'll do bold text and what not to help clarify in case you want to go to each.

The Decline of the Emperor's Coven

So it is important to recognize that there is a decline at all because it is important, regardless of how quickly it happens. The first time we see an EC guard is during the Covention demonstration in episode 5. Before then, we only have the bumbling guards of the Conformatorium as the protectors of the Isles. They have all magics, Lilith beats Eda in a witch's duel implying that she is even stronger than her, bare minimum due to not having the curse, and in general is treated with reverence. They fill out an entire stadium of people wanting to join them. Amity's biggest motivation and desire for the future is to join them. They're a BIG deal and implied to be real threats. Enough so that Eda will actually hide from them unlike in episode 1 where the regular guards made her not worry about needing a disguise of any sort. She isn't reckless with the guard but they are definitely less than the EC, even if not absolutely stated.

But... The decline starts almost immediately as the next time we see them is episode 8, Upon a Swap. Not only do they struggle with keeping Luz entirely under control while in Eda's body but they have a humiliating loss at the end of the episode when Eda swaps everyone's bodies around. I believe we still see some Conformatorium guards, something that effectively stops by S2 but this is the origin of Steve. Still, they lost Luz from other madness going on and the joke at the end is followed up by Lilith's resolve. It could be brushed off.

Unfortunately they don't really ever get another big moment. They turn into the name drop for turning in Eda but otherwise, until Agony of a Witch, we don't see any EC members besides Lilith. Unfortunately, Lilith just lets Eda go once, loses a Grugby match a different time and that's it for TEN. EPISODES. Mostly just jokes as Lilith refuses to actually do her job.

Until in Agony of a Witch, Lilith and an entire squad of scouts are beaten... By Hooty. As a joke. Yes, at the end of the episode, Lilith gets a big fight against Eda but this isn't an even fight like before. They use all the same spells they did in the previous fight but Lilith has to cheat in order to not be immediately obliterated by the power gap between her and Eda. It's not an intelligence thing either as Eda isn't using tactics besides BLOW THE FUCK UP ALREADY. Lilith has to be saved effectively by the timer running out on Eda's magic because she never had a chance. Even if she's acting high and mighty... It still leaves a worse impression for how good her magic and her ability to fight are and she is the COVEN HEAD.

Hunter does not fix this in S2 either. His accomplishments are: Bullies a couple people without magic.

Steals defenseless palisman before losing them.

Beats up Kikimora while she's under sleeping drugs.

Kind of a step down from Lilith getting to claim to have beaten the most powerful wild witch in the Isles, isn't it? On the influence on the Isles side, we don't get a lot but Amity forsakes them kind of just because. No argument or debate about this still being her world and her needing proof that Belos and the EC are evil or can't be changed from the inside. No, she's just now a wild witch because her girlfriend is because otherwise we don't get a reason. Worse, Sport in a Storm... exists? An episode where multiclassing students have less than zero interest in joining the Emperor's Coven despite that being the only way for them to legally practice the type of magic they want. Also, just by concept, it requires that people are so disinterested in the EC that they now have to actually try to recruit people versus 20 years ago when people would curse each other just for a chance into the limited positions available.

Hell, by the end, it seems like most EC guards are honestly one bad day away from quitting, with no repercussions, because of Steve and the guard Dana voices who goes to the cute cat coven which isn't even one of the big nine.

Also means that the cute coven joke, which happened three episodes before The Day of Unity where everyone needed specifically one of then sigils (though why EC coven members were affected without a representative in the ritual is unknown) had to go past Dana so many times she VOICED IT.

Sorry, got off track. On the power side, we only had Lilith before Hunter and Hunter doesn't have magic so the members have to keep up the slack. They are then immediately replaced with Abomatons and the Abomatons lose to... Everyone. They are literally never a credible threat except to Luz who had the worst chances of beating one when that came up because she already been worn down by the rest of the demonstration. Otherwise, the only moments the scouts or the abomatons are treated as real threats are when the Emerald Entrails are captured because they don't actually have a reason to fight them and cause problems for the school and when Amity tries to pretend Willow should be worried about them. Not all of them, only Willow and it's pointedly to make sure the audience knows that Amity is an idiot when it comes to Willow. That she is blatantly wrong about how much of a threat these guys are. That's still worse somehow than in Once Upon a Swap where they at least recognized these people could kick their asses without a distraction of some sort.

But that's how it falls. With how few times it shows up though, it raises a question:

2. Why Does the EC's Fall from Grace Matter?

It's actually pretty reasonable to wonder about this. Besides Hunter, they don't get a lot of appearances so why does it matter that they're inconsistent? Well... For one big reason:

They our only sign of Belos being a bad ruler. Of him being a dictator. Of him... At all. They exert his force more than even Hunter does because Hunter is constantly questioning him and not doing his job. For a villain like Belos, who is effectively not in the series for 90% of it since he doesn't take an active role until the Hollow Mind effectively, before then it's always just sweet words to people that are all lies, THAT'S A PROBLEM.

If we can't take his coven seriously... Why should take him seriously? Worse yet, why should we take Luz's opinion of him seriously? When she yells about him lying to people and she claims he's hurting people, you're left asking how? The guards are bumbling fools without direction or ability. Most of them, Hunter included, are just one push away from not doing their job. That's not what happens with a dictator and it's not what you should be thinking abut when EC members become the primary threat to our protagonists.

Instead, the show has no tension for its second half except against Belos effectively. Whenever EC members are around, victory or loss is just entirely plot dependent and we know that. That's how Willow can effortlessly bury a person and their abomaton and then they just... show up, covered in vines once we're actually pretending these people are threats. It's why they during the entirety of Labyrinth Runners, its only Gus and Hunter we're following because their lack of magic makes them able to be threatened while Amity and Willow getting in each other's way is the far larger threat than the trained soldiers. An abomaton and captain of the guard is just one not that fancy combo move away from being beaten because they're that little of a threat.

For an adventure show, that's just explicitly bad. From a thematic standpoint, it actually gets worse the more times WILLOW specifically beats them. After all, Willow is the poster child of the regime. She practiced the wrong type of magic at first before finding the one that the Titan blessed her to be able to be a master of. The more times she specifically beats the EC handedly, despite them using multiple magic types like Luz and Eda preach you should be able to... It makes you question if Belos isn't right. The evidence amongst the main characters, Gus included, is that he is and them conquering his forces better than Luz, Eda, Lilith, Barkus, Jerbo or Viney just reinforces that they're better.

Even Amity, who still only practices one type of magic, eventually beats the poster boy of the Emperor's Coven, something Luz never does in a fair fight. So is Belos wrong in thinking witches should only be using one coven?

Yes, him lying makes that the case but the show supports his arguments far more while also discrediting him as some grand tyrant who is a force that needs to be opposed. Hell, Terra tried to poison kids and its his guards, and his laws, that protect Eda and Raine during Them's the Breaks because why not? The EC scouts don't like doing evil. Steve and the cute cat coven members make that clear.

It discredits the final villain and ruins the themes while also just making the show worse at its genre. So yeah, it's a real problem... But only a problem if you think about it. If you care about the worldbuilding. Otherwise, the lack of stakes is the main one that will dig at the back of your brain because you'll want to be invested in what's happening but everytime a fight scene breaks out, it's nothing. Because you know the result.

And as Belos' only manifestation for absolutely the first season and arguably the second... That should be the last thing you feel when one a squad of these guys steps up.

======+++++======

I have a public Discord for any and all who want to join!

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#the owl house criticism #toh critical #the emperor's coven #Lilith #emperor belos #hunter toh

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emeraldguard-the · 2 years

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something i wanna point out/theorize about is how Darius seems to have a bad habit of projecting hate and blame onto the wrong person in relationships.

first off, the more canon one: him and Hunter.

Darius’s previous mentor was someone Darius likely idolized the Previous Golden Guard (PGG), and possibly knew the PGG as someone more rebellious or resistant to the Emperor’s ideals (although not openly so). when PGG was killed, Darius was likely crushed and looking for someone to blame. Belos, of course, if the obvious choice, but there’s not much Darius can do about it because thats the EMPEROR (who will also probably kill him if Darius said anything and Darius couldn’t actually prove Belos had anything to do with PGG’s death).

then comes in this little child, whom the Emperor was calling his nephew and claimed would be the next Golden Guard. a kid who bore the same (or similar) face as PGG. now, who knows what Darius thought of this- perhaps he knew the truth about Grimwalkers, but more likely Darius assumed PGG was Hunter’s father, older brother, or other close relative. whatever the mystery, all Darius saw was a kid bearing PGG’s face and likeness, and acting nothing like the GG Darius knew, as well as being a- in Darius’s view- loyal lap dog to the Emperor whom Darius now despises. so Darius blamed Hunter for replacing PGG and being the Emperor’s good little follower, and treated him accordingly, only showing favor when Hunter showed signs of being rebellious (more like PGG)

and the less canon one: him and Alador

this is all more speculation, and based off fanonization of these characters, but here’s the jist of it - Odalia, Alador, and Darius were friends. it’s likely Darius had a strong connection (be it crush or otherwise; but let’s assume crush) to Alador, and perhaps Odalia too. Odalia presumably had an interest in Alador as well (and perhaps Darius, although that’s irrelevant for this). Whose to say if Odalia had a true crush, or was merely impressed by Alador’s abomination and machinery skills. Either way, the scenario works like this - Darius is crushing on Alador, Odalia sees opportunity in Alador. Odalia convinces Alador with her seeing-the-future oracle magic that they could have a grand business together, and Alador, who perhaps does have a crush on Odalia, agrees, and the two get together, leaving Darius behind.

Darius likely chose to blame Alador for ‘choosing Odalia’ over him rather than blaming Odalia for possibly manipulating Alador will ill/selfish intents. so, as petty school kids do to their crushes, he gave Alador the nickname ‘hack’, among other nicknames I’m sure, and that was the end of their friendship and any friendly rivalry and the start of their frenemy and silent pining-yearning-hatred status. (of course, like i said, this one is more speculation. but it’s a curious thought, and, in the end, I think it’s the likely cause of Darius’s distaste of Alador, going off the patterns given to us from his and Hunter’s relationship.)

#character study #character analysis #the owl house #toh darius #hunter the golden guard #previous golden guards #the golden guard #emperor belos #the emperor's coven #alador blight #odalia blight #darius x alador #alador x darius #dalador #alarius #whats their ship name lmao?

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sergeantsporks · 2 years

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Ex Coven Scouts will be like “I know a place” and then take you to the top of a mountain.

#this is about Lilith going to the knee with Eda to hide btw #taking bets on whether that cave was the slitherbeast cave from before and they got rid of the slitherbeast #or if lilith used that cave during the mountain trial to stay alive #toh #the owl house #lilith clawthorne #toh steve #toh hunter #the emperor's coven

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m4rs-ex3 · 1 year

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pre-possessed hunter had giant, thick, dark scars on his ankle, his bicep, and his face, all of which are insane lacerations. those scars didn’t come from accidental scrapes.

what the fuck did they do to him.

#i have done #SO MUCH research on scars #my poor eyes #well #his poor life ig #hunter #hunter toh #hunter the owl house #hunter owl house #hunter noceda #the emperor's coven #emperor's coven #emperor belos #belos #toh #the owl house

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aroacemisha · 2 years

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So like, while working on one of my fic wips, I went to look at pictures of the Conformatorium to refresh my memory and describe it properly. While looking at it, I initially thought all the floors in the tower were just separate, and all of them except the first had a hole in the middle - kinda like some supermarkets I've been to, just without railings. And also with narrower passages.

But then I suddenly realized-

No, every single floor is connected. It’s a spiral.

Belos, what the fuck is this architecture.

Not only does it lack railings, but the floor is also all tilted due to it being a continuous spiral?? I mean, makes sense I guess, since it’s mostly the “evil” witches and demons who will ever be in this area, so this shitty ass structure is gonna torment them further.

#the owl house #the emperor's coven #i'm changing it in my au

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pra370r1an · 3 months

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What if Luz had caught wind of Eda's involvement with the Batts

Eda, hiding behind a corner: I don't suppose you ignored my instructions, and secretly prepared your own CEEFour tonic?

Luz, also hiding: What if I had?

Eda: Then, naturally, you wouldn't do anything so insanely dangerous as carry it around with you, would you?

Luz, offended: Of course not. I'm a good girl. I do what I'm told.

Eda: Excellent.

Eda: Blow up that wagon.

Luz: 😀

#the owl house #pra370r1an #luz noceda #eda clawthorne #toh incorrect quotes #toh the batts #raine whispers #edalyne clawthorne #edalyn the owl lady #edalyn clawthorne #the emperor's coven

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httyddragonfox · 1 year

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How old is Hunter?

Yes, he's supposedly 16, but some say he wasn't born as a baby. Then we have to take into account when his predecessor was around. He was Darius' mentor into the Emperor's coven. We don't know when Darius entered the Emperor's coven or if the golden guard was his mentor for the entire time the grimwalker was alive. Still if the last one was his mentor around the time he met his end...we have some things to consider. Darius is in his 40s, 15ish years ago he would have been around 30, 10 years ago he would have been 35. Either way he would have been an adult when the Golden guard met his end and Darius entered the top ranks. Coven heads usually get into the emperor's coven in their 30s or 40s, so if Darius were to have a close relationship with him it probably wouldn't be when he was 30 when Hunter's predecessor died, so I'm thinking Hunter might've been born as a five year old.

#the owl house #toh #Hunter #Darius #Hunter's predecessor #The Emperor's coven #Coven heads #Grimwalkers

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thecoolestscoutonthecoven · 11 months

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[ It's Para here, Ahem, I will use emoji 🕊 to present A.G the one who will be talking to you ]

Every nook and cranny of the Emperor Coven Castle is bathed in golden light, ushering in a lovely day for a certain witch who always seems to be at the peak of delight with no regard for their commitments. In some circumstances, no one recognizes them and just dismisses them as one of the guards who lacks a sense of duty, which is not the case with the golden light eyes.

Someone is observing them, and they have the impression their skull is about to be burned off. But the poor witch had no idea who was watching at them so intently. Did anyone spot the palisman? Were they not cautious? Is the palisman making too many noises?

The Witch is becoming paranoid as a result of her ideas and sensation.

Then, at a certain point, the small witch finds herself alone, where no one should be able to stalk them any more. The only things visible are the walls and the lights. They believed it was over, that the sensation was gone, but then they heard an unexpected voice.

" Was it you? " The voice's direction was so close, but there was no one in sight.

- 🕊

The scout inmediatly got out their staff for protection, trembling with fear they looked around the empty halls but couldnt find anyone near her

"W-what?? W-who's there! I-if this is a joke i-its not funny! Y-you're messing with an emperor's coven scout you know?!"

Waffles wasnt the type to use that at their favour but thry thought it would be intimidating enough to scare whoever was following her.

They hold onto their staff tightly, they where so scared and paranoid at this point, could it be Belos? Did he really found out abouth the palisman??

@yourbeloved-angelguardian

#rp stuff #the owl house oc #doodles #the emperor's coven #the owl house self insert #FEAR #the owl house fanart

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sokkas-first-fangirl · 1 year

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Lilith: “You’re smiling. What happened?”

Hunter: “Can’t I just smile because I feel like it?”

Darius: “Kikimora tripped and fell in the throne room.”

#incorrect quotes #hunter noceda #hunter toh #lilith clawthorne #darius deamonne #kikimora #emperor's coven #coven heads #the coven heads #the emperor's coven #the owl house #toh #incorrect toh quotes #incorrect the owl house #incorrect the owl house quotes #every time kikimora gets hurt or makes a fool of herself an angel gets its wings #get wrecked kikimora #i wanna punt her across the room #source: ???

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drachenfalter · 4 months

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A new thought that came to me now.

Does the rest of the Bad Girl Coven even know that Eda's near execution wasn't the "first petrification in 30 years"?

Because it's not public knowledge and I don't think Lilith would have told them. The way she talks about her time in the coven in S2, you could easily get the false impression that she was just some paper pusher who knew nothing about what was going on in her coven.

(Sidenote: I'm not accusing Lilith of being intentionally deceptive. She probably just doesn't want to think about the bad things she did and thus doesn't bring it up.)

#lilith clawthorne #the emperor's coven #toh season 2 #toh meta #wild witch genocide

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mdhwrites · 11 months

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Have you talked about the emperor's coven? How the story treated it is confusing because I can't tell if it's suppose to be a serious threat (besides Belos himself) that we or the characters should be concerned about when it didn't feel like that until S1 finale. It's like I was watching a different show when the last episodes dropped, packed with angst out of the ordinary.

So I actually haven't talked a lot about the coven itself outside of talking about the show gutting them in S2 as they're... Hard to talk about. Until the last quarter of S2, they really don't exist. Not in a proper form. Really, they're just their figure heads of Lilith, Hunter and Kikimora. Not even Belos interacts with them enough to reflect on the coven really and Kiki still doesn't do a lot with the scouts, Hunter never does anything with them (mostly, we'll get into it) and Lilith is more about her sister.

Before I get too far though, I actually want to start with stating the simple fact that unlike a lot of shows, TOH DID need a governing villain for its theoretical main themes. It needs someone to enforce the norm in order for the weird to be embraced and for adventures to be about conformity versus self-expression and BOY WOULD IT HAVE BEEN NICE IF THEY DID ANY OF THAT!

For S1 though, the figurehead approach works actually for the same reason as why Stormtroopers work because that is what they're evoking with the guards. This isn't even a knock against it as the Empire is an amalgamation of a lot of tropes with Nazi Germany on top of them. The specific dynamic in S1 though is that of the original trilogy. Of VADER and the Stormtroopers.

See, regular guards in most media aren't a problem. Despite their training, they're just easily available fodder. So long as you allow the guards themselves not to matter and not to truly represent the larger governing body, they work fine for that. But that means the onus of intimidation is on the figurehead. This is why the Stormtroopers can suck and be a meme but you don't inherently assume the Empire sucks because they answer to Vader. A problem they can't deal with is answered by someone who NEVER gets brought down. Who never loses his intimidation.

Lilith is OKAY at this. Covention is a REALLY good showing for her and S1 doesn't knock her down until the very end of it when Hooty beats her. She's the butt of some jokes and can be tricked but her power is never in question. You know that if she took this seriously, you'd be screwed, a promise she makes good on in Agony of the Witch which makes Hooty making her a joke of that episode more okay because it's supposed to demonstrate a contrast to what she's doing at the end.

Also, points to her for actually playing with themes of conformity versus self-expression. That is explicitly the line between Eda and her. The comforts of conformity versus the freedom but risk of self-expression. Of a normal industry job or freelancing as I see it a lot. She never transfers to Luz though besides Luz wanting to check out Covens in episode 5.

But... Also the coven is hard to figure out properly in S1. The scouts themselves show up in probably like a handful of episodes at most and mostly at the finale. It's part of what points to a shift that SHOULD have happened. That we're not dealing with prison guards, we're dealing with royal forces now. Inquisitors (or those red guards in Star Wars) rather than Stormtroopers.

And then we meet Captain Phasm- I mean Hunter. Captain Phasma in Star Wars is pitched as the elite stormtrooper. The new leader of the forces not to be fucked with. She gets few intimidating moments building her up and then she comes head to head with the heroes and... Dropped in a garbage shoot. How different is that from Luz taking Hunter so not seriously as to lick his hand or other annoying, smug actions that are more to a rival than someone who tried to murder you and your family the last time you two met (as a note, the transition for them between Changing Tides and Hunting Palisman is... Awkward. It's not the worst but you really feel like there should have been an inbetween episode for them). But for the purpose of this blog, there's another element important to this beyond Hunter's arc.

He is our new figurehead and while intimidating at first... Now he's a joke. He's a mad but sad boy who no one, including the Coven, treats seriously. So... Why should we take his coven seriously?

And the show only doubles down on this. By the next time we have a major encounter with them, Kikimora is both the figurehead now AND she is being knocked down because she is literally nothing but crazy and paranoid that entire episode to the point where she makes mistakes that wreck her entire squad but one without ANY real intervention by the heroes. So now we don't just have implications but explicitly the show is showing us that the EC is pointless and ineffectual.

The final nail for this coffin is of course Sport in a Storm where... They just shoot the theme that the EC is there for in the head for really, REALLY lazy character work. Hey, all those bonuses to conformity, reasons to work with the EC, etc. like that to have this push and pull? Nah, they're pure evil and even take on what modern society sees barbaric practices by the Spartans of yeeting kids onto mountains because how old was Hunter when he was doing the test? In fact, a LOT of coven scouts don't seem happy in the coven and one explicitly leaves at the end of Labyrinth Runners and so does Steve in Titan, Where Art Thou'? And with no consequences for either of them.

It reinforces a feeling that was already present LONG before now with Amity in S1/S2A of conformity and telling authorities to go fuck themselves not only to be just objectively the right thing to do but easy. After all, when Amity did it, she got a power boost, despite letting her grades slip, and no one ever gave her real consequences that lasted for more than five minutes despite the show claiming that her parents are pure evil and hyper controlling. The EC in the last quarter of S2, the part they're most involved in and so the only time they actually start creating an identity for themselves, feels a lot like this. Like this force and law that we've been told is hard to break, hard to fight against and now... It's nothing but a joke. An easy hurdle to bypass.

It's made even worse frankly by the fact that the literal only time, in the ENTIRE series that a normal coven scout is treated as a threat by ANYONE... Is at the start of Labyrinth Runners to make it clear just how objectively wrong Amity is about Willow's strength. So even then, they're not being taken seriously? And why should they? S2 almost OPENS with the coven scouts being replaced as a threat by the Abomatons. We haven't EVER seen the scouts fight properly except for the end of S1 where Hooty beat them easily. You haven't tried to make them as threatening as most Power Ranger footsoldiers before you're adding a new elite enemy who is supposed to be taken seriously... Who we ALSO never see actually pose a real threat to anyone (besides when plot demands it in Clouds on the Horizon shortly after Willow effortlessly BURIES ONE). The first one we see in a group of threats that are active are taken out by the environment in Eclipse Lake for a Coven Captain to instead be Eda's enemy but by then, Coven Captains haven't been built up and the abomatons are still waiting for a moment to be than more menacing.

The EC is just... Of a kind though. I mean, in S1 it worked... But only kind of. In that season, Lilith is still a joke. She isn't knocked down but she's put in a dog's body, she still loses the duel in Covention by trickery, she still feels the need to cheat rather than just believing in the strength of her pupil, she loses the Grudgby match against Eda and she is taken out by a bird tube on ACCIDENT. It's VERY easy not to take Lilith, and thus not to take the EC, seriously in S1 which is just matching the tone of S1.

But when it actually had to cash the check of the concepts it was writing, it couldn't do it. The foundation wasn't there, the care wasn't put into it and so the problems of S1 that could be ignored because the show still felt like it had any real interest in being a kid's show shatters when it is claiming to be more serious.

But the Emperor's Coven is never more serious. They're always a punchline. The joke is on the viewer though who ever expected the cast to be challenged or for the main threat of the series to actually have a point.

==========

I have a public Discord for any and all who want to join!

I also have an Amazon page for all of my original works in various forms of character focused romances from cute, teenage romance to erotica series of my past. I have an Ao3 for my fanfiction projects as well if that catches your fancy instead, If you want to hang out with me, I stream from time to time and love to chat with chat.

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#the owl house criticism #toh critical #The Emperor's Coven

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