#The Innocent Sleep

[juicingbeetles]

Halfway into reading Seanan Mcguire's The Innocent Sleep and

And

The cat people are robbing the Costco they're fucking emptying it

Im shaking

THEY ROBBED TWO

Brb im going to rob the costco at midnight with the Cait Sidhe

#october daye #the innocent sleep #tybalt king of cats #costco #im LOVING this book so far giving me that sweet sweet Tybalt content

[sithiegoodness]

THE COVERS ARE OUT!

Gizmodo got a special sneak peek AND EXCERPT FROM SLEEP NO MORE! You can see the article here!

Seanan's tweet about them said to pay special attention to the reflections. I think Tybalt is in Toby's mirror and Toby's reflection is in the water Tybalt is looking into, but I'd love to hear if anyone spots anything different.

Toby's eyes look green to me. That could be a style choice but it might also indicate that she's under spell.

EDIT: The colors for Seanan's name and the book titles also mirror each other.

#October Daye #Seanan McGuire #Sleep No More #The Innocent Sleep #Toby Daye #Chris McGrath

[rheadionne]

Check out my review of The Innocent Sleep by Seanan McGuire 

#seanan mcguire #the innocent sleep #book review #urban fantasy #october daye

[reviewsthatburn]

*I received a free review copy in exchange for an honest review of this book. 

THE INNOCENT SLEEP, best read after SLEEP NO MORE, is Tybalt’s perspective on the time after Titania’s actions at the end of BE THE SERPENT. Because Tybalt has a radically different perspective than October (even more so than usual), trying to read this book first would spoil some mysteries out of turn. By necessity, as the books are a pair covering much of the time and even a few of the same scenes, some of the resolution is present in both. I love them singly and together, and am working on a long, spoiler-filled essay analyzing some of the key elements in both books.

Full Review at Link

#BookReviews #ARC #Fantasy #Highly Recommended #seanan mcguire #the innocent sleep #october daye #toby daye

[avocado-ramen]

My Tybalt Exposition

I read somewhere (likely on Twitter, but no guarantees) about people getting really upset with the depiction of Tybalt in the two most recent October Daye novels (Sleep No More and The Innocent Sleep) which cover the same events, one from October's POV, the other from Tybalt's. This is the first time there's been another narrator in the October Daye series outside of short stories/novellas.

That original poster said that while they saw Tybalt's behaviour as problematic in Sleep No More, they had hoped that The Innocent Sleep, since told from his point of view, would clarify matters and perhaps 'redeem' his character. They went on to say that The Innocent Sleep made it much worse, and (I am completely paraphrasing here, I read this weeks ago and no longer have those posts available for reference) that Tybalt was basically abusive trash. If I recall correctly, they toed the line with calling the author a DV sympathizer/apologizer, but it was a near thing.

Even if I remembered where that original post was, I wouldn’t link to it, because I don’t want to bring attention to what they said, nor do I want to risk people piling onto them as is common when people feel like an IP they love is being attacked in any way. I’d rather just make an entirely too long post explaining my own views, and possibly rambling too much and make no sense – because that’s what I do. 😊

As I’ve now finished The Innocent Sleep, I felt the need to get some thoughts down to address some of the things brought forward in that post/thread/whatever I read just after The Innocent Sleep was released.

The author: people need to realise that these books are FICTION. The bonus of writing fiction is that you can safely explore troublesome parts of humanity and society without actually agreeing with those troublesome things.

A significant portion of the books I read have murder happening either on page or off screen in the first few pages because the mystery of a dead body gives the protagonist something to do. Do I think these authors all believe that people should be able to go around killing each other just for fun? No. So why on earth would people think an author including any other kind of violence in their work approves of that violence? This could be it’s own post, and many others have made this point much better than I ever will. Tybalt’s behavior in Sleep No More: We are seeing Tybalt through October’s eyes. Sure, we as readers are privy to the previous 16 books worth of information (even more if we’ve read all the shorts and novellas), but at this point in time, October doesn’t know Tybalt. She’s never seen a Cait Sidhe. She doesn’t know anything about them aside from what Titania’s illusion tells her. From this framing, Tybalt comes across as brash, angry, controlling, and violent. He has a tendency to storm off if things aren’t going his way. To October, Tybalt’s behaviour is completely out of line, and she’d be correct – from everything she knows at this point. Tybalt’s behaviour in The Innocent Sleep: One thing people need to remember before they start applying present-day human morality to Tybalt is that he is not human. At all. He’s fae. Cait Sidhe. He is both a cat and a humanoid, but he is not, and has never been, human. One of the things the author has reiterated time and time again is that both the fae as a whole, and Cait Sidhe specifically, live by an entirely different set of rules than humanity does. Titania hates the Cait Sidhe because she believes they are beasts and below the perfection of her other descendant lines like the Daione Sidhe. As much as Titania is the villain, she’s not entirely wrong. First and foremost, the Cait Sidhe are cats. When backed into a corner, they’re going to lash out. If they’re stressed, or hurt, etc., they’re going to lash out. It’s what they do. I have the scars from my own cats to prove it.

Tybalt knows he is barely in control of his emotions. He freely admits that, and the fact that he at times needs to walk away before he lashes out and does something he’ll regret, which I feel is smart and responsible of him.

Tybalt’s attack on Ginevra in the throne room in Golden Shore is excessive. And it’s meant to be. It’s completely unexpected and jarring in Sleep No More when seen from October’s point of view. In The Innocent Sleep, being in Tybalt’s head, while still a severe overreaction to a situation he wasn’t paying attention to and therefore didn’t have full context of, it is completely in line for how a) a cat would react, and b) how a Cait Sidhe king would react when they believe someone has attacked/injured/wronged someone that ‘belongs’ to them. Does that make it right? No. And Tybalt himself shows as much shame as his position allows when he sees Ginevra at dinner. Do I think Tybalt is an abusive asshole that needs to be shunned, killed off, or whatever other over the top reaction people have had? No. And no, that doesn’t mean I approve of his behaviour or think he should face no repercussions. But context means a lot. I can see when his behaviour is completely in character for his species and title, while also admitting when he’s crossed a line. The benefit of an ongoing series is that it is quite possible that Tybalt will face the fallout of his behaviour in Book 19, or even further. I don’t expect everything to be wrapped up in a perfect bow at the end of each book. None of the characters in these books is perfect (with the exception of Spike, Cagney, and Lacey), and if the author can foreshadow some of the things we’ve seen in Book 16 way back in Book 1, then we can believe she’s got plans for them for Book 19 and beyond.

This is the same author that took one of the most loathsome characters and made me want to wrap him in wool and protect him at all costs (ok, I still want to shake him now and again), to the point that I named my new kitten after him. Please, admire Simon “The Tiny Terror”.

#Seanan McGuire #The Innocent Sleep #Sleep No More #October Daye #Tybalt #Books #my cat

[darkladynyara]

A Short, Spoiler-Free Review of The Innocent Sleep

Ow, my emotions. :(

Titania needs better hobbies. Tybalt needs a hug and also to kill his mother-in-law. Everyone. Needs. Therapy.

#the innocent sleep #october daye

[deweydecimalchickens]

I'm reading The Innocent Sleep at the moment and among all the murder, abusive families, disemboweling (twice! In one book! She got better), exploitation, etc in the October Daye series I am really, really having trouble with...

The Cait Sidhe struggling to feed themselves, their kittens, and the mortal cats under their protection.

The bit where October's cats cry to Tybalt that she's gone and they don't know who will feed and pet them fucking BROKE me. I had to go give Pinky and Perky extra cuddles.

#seanan mcguire #October Daye #The Innocent Sleep #October Daye spoilers #Animal cruelty

[darkfrog24]

Your mouth is an international incident

SIMON: Patrick! You're not smushed!

PATRICK: Simon! *leSMOOCH!*

SIMON: Wutwutwhawhawhut?!

PATRICK: Smooch is what?

SIMON: I'm a married man!

PATRICK: I know. Hence smooch?

DIANDA: WHO DARES?!

TYBALT: The homophobia should wash right out, I swear.

#The Innocent Sleep #Innocent Sleep spoilers #October Daye spoilers #Ocotber Daye #seanan mcguire #lovable chumps #original posts

[papercranes07]

clearly it's been way too long since i read the novellas cause what do you mean his name was rand

#how does this keep happening to me with this series specifically lolololol #story of my life #toby daye #the innocent sleep #when fandoms collide

[beccastareyes]

It's Time for Scream about New Book!

The Innocent Sleep + bonus Novella. But with spoiler tags, because I'm not a monster

(The tag lets everyone block things right? I am inexperienced at the Tumblr.)

I have a lot to say, and I'm glad we got the look at what the spell looked like from the outside. Some things I noticed:

Tybalt noted that Berkley was always independent, and that while most people assumed it was because of the university, it was not.

Confirmation that 'Eira' was Karen Brown, but a further mystery of what role Cassandra was playing.

It seems like Titania took three days to get some things straight; Raysel and Tybalt were booted as soon as possible, but the Cait Sidhe spent 3 days stuck in the Court before the 'we have always lived in the castle' thing hit.

For someone who was always about refinement, Titania really got lazy, or just assumed that since she caught Oberon and the Luidaeg off guard and Maeve continues to be MIA, she didn't have to care about the details herself since it was only 4 months. Because a lot of people seemed to key into 'this makes no sense' when confronted with it. As soon as Grainne realized the Cait Sidhe were alive, she connected 'that's why Candela can still access the Shadow Roads -- we couldn't be sustaining them ourselves. Gabriel noted that there shouldn't be this many thin-blooded changlings among the Cait Sidhe if they'd been trapped for centuries without contact with the mortal world. Even Toby herself -- with a double dose of the illusion -- had the realization that she would have had to have cut herself once during a childhood, but she never remembered it.

Since I assume Quentin was the intended sacrifice, having 'Evening' taking a more active role in his fosterage to create the illusion that he had seven years of paradise probably didn't help. (I also wonder if Titania edited out the memory of his sister; Quentin was pretty miserable in Shadowed Hills in canon because he knew what having someone close to you and equal enough to call you out on things was like, in addition to 'Sylvester is not doing well'. )

(I do appreciate the irony that Titania gave Amandine what she thought she wanted -- look, here your husband and daughters all love you, and everyone is willing to flatter and celebrate you... because you are the only one who can sustain Faerie as Titania made it, so get to work. Probably because Amandine's bloodworking meant she could penetrate the illusions, so she needed something to buy her off, with the promise that once the spell was anchored in the Heart of Faerie, they could reopen the doors to deeper Faerie and Amandine wouldn't be needed.)

... I probably should be breaking some of these up. This is getting long.

I also liked the novella. Which... Helmi noticed that the magical signature during the Earthquake was 'roses and wood smoke'... that's August's signature. (Well, roses and 'campfire smoke' but close enough. Unless the source isn't August but is part of the explanation for why Simon's magical signature is unlike Sylvester's despite them being twins.) (Also Mary stating that the Roane were only sure about Dianda's daughter after Simon started having sex with Patrick and Dianda, and the daughter's magical signature including whitebeam flowers when Simon's has whitebeam smoke seems to suggest that the daughter will be biologically Simon and Dianda's.)

#october daye #the innocent sleep #spoilers #october daye spoilers #the innocent sleep spoilers #doubtless and secure #doubtless and secure spoilers

[sithiegoodness]

I'm losing my mind over here!!!!!!

#october daye #toby daye #seanan mcguire #sleep no more #the innocent sleep

[blueinsideout]

No context spoilers for The Innocent Sleep (October Daye Series) aka my new nightmare fuel.

#october daye #the innocent sleep #october daye spoilers #seanan mcguire #nightmare fuel #no context spoilers

[reviewsthatburn]

*This essay excerpt contains minor spoilers for Babylon 5 (S3 E4 "Passing Through Gethsemane"). 

The full essay (at this link) also contains moderate spoilers for the first sixteen October Daye books by Seanan McGuire, with major spoilers for SLEEP NO MORE and THE INNOCENT SLEEP.

INTRO

When reading SLEEP NO MORE and THE INNOCENT SLEEP by Seanan McGuire (the newest October Daye books), I was struck by similarities in the ethical framework of these two books and certain aspects of the 1990's sci-fi show Babylon 5, particularly the way that changes in personality or memories are treated with relation to assumptions of personhood. I am certain that Seanan McGuire is also very familiar with Babylon 5 because one of her telepathic characters in the Incryptid series uses specific aspects of Babylon 5 as a framework for ethical telepathy. 

THE DEATH OF PERSONALITY IN BABYLON 5

In Babylon 5, set in the late 2250's and early 2260's at a time when capital punishment is not in use by EarthGov, some criminals are sentenced to "the death of personality". In this punishment, a telepath takes the mind of the condemned and strips everything away, reworking and rebuilding them until a completely different person inhabits the body. They have killed the previous personality by overwriting them with a new one (hence the name). Whether this stays shy of murder is something the show grapples with on several occasions. There are two parts to this: did someone die, and was that death a murder? I tend to use the definition that murder is killing which is not sanctioned by the relevant ethical/moral framework. When the life of a body is ended, there’s often little debate over whether a death has occurred, but room for much ambiguity over whether that death was murder. In the case of the death of personality, there’s also room for debate over whether anyone died at all.

Outside of this punishment, there are several other instances where someone's personality is manipulated or rewritten against their will. It is, stripped of context, often thought to be kinder than murder of the body as well as the mind. However, by its very nature, if it's successful then the prior person is gone, utterly and completely. In at least one instance where the previous person could be partially recalled, the results were horrifying in their own way. The episode “Passing Through Gethsemane” involves a monk who begins having horrible dreams of death, and is threatened with violence in his waking hours. Towards the end of the episode, he is kidnapped and tortured. At this point it’s revealed that his previous personality was that of a serial killer, and his kidnappers are relatives of the victims. He dies (mentally and physically) as a result of his injuries, and his kidnappers/torturers are sentenced for his murder. The end of the episode shows the lead kidnapper after undergoing the death of personality himself. The new person is being sent far away, to live a life of service far from those who were harmed by the previous personality. It sets up a kind of horror in the final moments of the episode, as the circumstances which lead to the other monk’s torture seem to be now set up to potentially repeat. In the greater context of the show, it reinforces the concept that personalities can be changed or overwritten, but that each personality is treated as a new entity with their own moral history and responsibility. 

The key for me is that the loss of a previous personality is recognized, specifically, as a death in terms of punishment but not necessarily in terms of the law and the conscience of the telepath/executioner. There’s some ambiguity in the way that the new personality is sentenced to a life of service for something they didn’t do, rather than a judicial model focused on punishment long after the crime. Those who want to believe the person was punished can (hopefully) rest easy that the personality who committed some terrible crime is gone forever. Those who want to say that the executioners didn't actually kill anyone can point to the body who walks away to live a new life in a new place, with (hopefully) nothing to trigger the old memories. It allows for a social and legal fiction existing in a delicate balance, a kind of Schrödinger's murder where everyone has agreed not to look too closely at the same moment. 

Full Post at Link

#babylon 5 spoilers #the innocent sleep #sleep no more #seanan mcguire #october daye #the death of personality

[regallibellbright]

OFFICIAL TYBALT ART OFFICIAL TYBALT ART I AM SCREAMING

#october daye #october daye series #the innocent sleep #HE LOOKS SO GOOD?!

[darkladynyara]

The Innocent Sleep Reactions

So many spoilers

I knew Tybalt was having a rough time, but somehow I wasn't expecting it to be that rough. "I need to contact a firstborn. Time to jump off a cliff" Toby needs to hear about this. (Along with Amphitrites threat to turn Tybalt into a nudibranch if he tries it again.) Look, Eira. You wanted your descendants to be ambitious, and I think "murdering Titania" qualifies. You should be proud of Patrick. ...And the Undersea looked at the night haunts and said "meh. We can do worse". Titania writing fix-it fic with peoples lives and memories: absolutely horrifying. The fact that this is an established habit of hers, that an entire race of faerie is aware of and has traditions around: actually kind of hilarious. (And still horrifying, don't get me wrong. I am laughing and screaming.) I want to know everything about the Libraries now. (Titania doesn't have a card, and I am dying)

Genuinely love the fact that Tybalt has spent enough time interacting with the mortal world to see the value in cleaning out a Costco. I love Theron and Chrysanthe so much. (Just "Welp. We're going against Titania. We're gonna die. We'll do it, but we're gonna die".) Man, Amandine is terrible at being told "no". Like, that's not news, but throwing in with Titania to remake faerie so she can basically mind-rape August into being her pet perfect, loving daughter again is just...ugh. Titania, I know you suck at parenting, but still. Thinking that "[Amandine] agreed to raise the babe as if it were her own" is something other than a dire threat is an almost impressive failure of understanding. Seriously, Tybalt needs to stab Amandine until she stops being horrible. Or at least until she stops squirming and can be stuffed in the sack with Eira and Titania. Those three deserve each other. (Fuck. I think Amy actually deserves Titania more than Eira does. Eira didn't have a choice in being Titania's child.) I am so glad that "at least some of faerie knows what therapy is" has already been established. (Poor Quentin.)

Grianne and Garm were unexpectedly delightful. I hope we see more of them in the future.

#october daye #the innocent sleep

[alwaysbeyondhope]

just started The Innocent Sleep and oh Tybalt. My beautiful cinnamon roll precious boy Tybalt. I love you so much.

#personal #seanan mcguire #october daye #the innocent sleep #tybalt