#The Trouble With Peace

[wizardnaturalist]

just finished the trouble with peace and my number 1 hope for wisdom of crowds is that orso learns that there is a middle ground between "forge nobly and blindly ahead to my goals" and "just do whatever my councillors say because clearly I cant fight them".

orso clearly does care about his people and has notions about what is right and wrong, but he is also so easily discouraged when he fails. was he outmaneuvered by his council? yes, but in his first truly sticky political situation as king, and through that, he learned that the people meant to advise him cannot be trusted to put justice over personal gain. after that, the lesson he took was that clearly he does not actually have the power to simply decree what he wishes.

from here he could go two directions. 1. concede that certain evils are necessary to rule, and thats just the way things are so he might as well accept them. or 2. learn the rules of the game and make his goals known in any way he can. learn to outwit those trying to outwit him.

orso definitely came into himself somewhat on the field of battle. that was probably the first time he took proper control of the situation and had it work out the way he intended. and with a newly repentant sabine in his company again, he may now have the edge necessary to make #2 a real possibility

#the age of madness #joe abercrombie #the trouble with peace

[bookcoversonly]

Title: The Trouble with Peace | Author: Joe Abercrombie | Publisher: Orbit (2020)

#books #The Trouble with Peace #Joe Abercrombie

[scelestic-reveries]

Sometimes,” he murmured, “the only way to improve something is to destroy it, so it can be rebuilt better. Sometimes, to change the world, we must first burn it down.

Joe Abercrombie, The Trouble with Peace.

#The Trouble With Peace #Joe Abercrombie #quote #books #s/r #scelestic reveries

[smalltownfae]

Leo vs Orso in one of my favourite chapters of The Trouble with Peace.

Iconic how Jappo had one single scene and he became a favourite. I wish there was more of him.

#the trouble with peace #the age of madness #the first law #jappo murcatto #orso dan luthar #leo dan brock #sad to never see more of jappo and orso's friendship

[xserpx]

‘Be charming. You can be charming, when you want to be. You charmed me.’

‘Really? The way I remember it, you seduced me, fell pregnant, then talked me into a match.’

A hint of an exasperated sigh, and Savine took her hand away. ‘Talk him into a match, then.’

That felt like a dangerous choice of words somehow.

— The Wisdom of Crowds by Joe Abercrombie

‘Come on.’ Jurand’s turn to give Leo a nudge. ‘You know you can be charm itself when you want to be. Just flash that smile of yours and King Jappo will be putty in your hands.’ Leo grinned in spite of himself and Jurand grinned back. ‘That’s the one.’

...

‘I just hope you know how much I love—’ That word felt oddly dangerous, of a sudden. But he couldn’t think of another that fitted.

— The Trouble With Peace by Joe Abercrombie

The way the TWOC chapter is called "Different This Time" and yet it repeats certain sentences from (TTWP) "Grown Up". I'm not crying. 🥲

#joe abercrombie #the first law #leo dan brock #jurand #leo/jurand #leo/savine #savine dan glokta #the age of madness #the wisdom of crowds #the trouble with peace #i love how leo is flailing in different this time #i know everyone canonically ships it (except leo) but savine is the ultimate leo/jurand shipper #leo's lucky his wife is a good wingman

[jannaphia]

Oxel worked his mouth. 'We'll see, you little cunt.' 'I do the seeing.' Rikke nodded at Shivers. 'The dead are blind.'

- Joe Abercrombie, The Trouble With Peace

#books #the trouble with peace #joe abercrombie #age of madness

[nocontextfirstlawtrilogy]

By the dead, did he glimpse a muscular pair of buttocks in the shadows?

~ The Trouble With Peace, Joe Abercrombie

#the first law #joe abercrombie #first law ooc #first law out of context #tflooc #out of context #the age of madness trilogy #the trouble with peace #submission

[luckspren]

I'm finally reading the Age of Madness trilogy. I just finished part 4 (so basically part 1 of The Trouble with Peace) and I looove it. I'm trying my hardest to be normal about the series, but my god. Abercrombie is definitely an auto-buy author for me. On the one hand I want to take my time with the rest of the trilogy and on the other hand I can't wait to read more. I am legitimately nervous about where some of those storylines will go.

While I wasn't exactly worried about not liking the trilogy (beause I heard many readers apparently prefer this one to the first trilogy and so far Abercrombie hasn't let me down), next-generation books can be kinda tricky for me, especially if the characters from the books before are still around. But I really like the new pov-characters.

Some thoughts and speculations under the cut:

So far I like the pov of Rikke and Orso the best. I do really enjoy the other perspectives too, though. Broad is probably the one I am least interested in right now

Rikkes prophecy... so up to the lion eating the wolf the events have already happened. So next comes the lamb eating the lion and we already know that Orso is the lamb. With the civil war brewing I have no reason to doubt that. So the question is who the owl represents. I guess the owl is often associated with wisdom, so maybe we are supposed to think that Bayaz wins it all again? Given that every other animal in the prophecy is connected to a member of the next generation though, I think the owl will also be one of them. Savine already likened herself to a snake, so I don't think it's her, even though she has a claim to the throne. So I think it's either Rikke or Jappo who we haven't really met yet, but Styria has to come into the plot sooner or later

(I haven't really considered Vick, Clover or Broad for the owl, because I read the animals/characters in the prophecy more as stand-ins for the nations they lead. Broad also already has the bull as an animal motif and so far Vick and Clover have no real power by themselves, so I just think it's unlikely, at least at this point in the story)

Leo is soooo doomed. It's amazing how he never learns from his mistakes. I don't actually dislike his chapters, but he is a very aggravating character to read about. He is so easily manipulated, I'm sure I still feel bad for him, when his downfall inevitably comes.

also with his colossal mommy issues I still can't quite tell if he's bi and in denial or gay and in denial. Either way, he's definitely into Jurand who I already feel bad for. Like I'm worried about Leos entire friend group. I feel like they are doomed by association. But not only is Jurand the only voice of reason in that group that nobody ever listens to, I also can't see Leo reacting favorably if his feelings ever come to light. Obviously Leo is married now, but I don't think even the friendship would survive, what with Leos pretty severe internalized homophobia. Also there was a moment in A Little Hatred where I thought Jurand may have something going on with Glaward (I think that's his name...definitely something with a G), because it's specifically mentioned that they spring apart when Leo runs through the camp after Rikke has her fit, so I thought maybe a little jealousy would move the plotline along, but that didn't happen. But maybe the Leo/Savine marriage reveal finally will ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Civil war is definitely coming and as I said before, I think Leos side will lose. Right now Orso seems in a worse position with everyone hating him. But Isher and co. seem to bank on the fact that Leo has allied himself with Stour who I can easily see betraying Leo. I don't know, I just think Leo will regret the decision to leave him alive. He should really listen to the women in his life but obviously he isn't gonna

I don't really know how things in the North will progress, now that the Dogman is dead ( :((( ). There is no chance in hell that Rikke will agree to an alliance with Stour and probably she's still pissed at Leo, so I guess she will rally the men (or at least a faction of them) behind her somehow... but the protectorate is also sandwiched between them and that seems like a terrible position to be in on her own.

Also I wonder if Styria will sweep in right after the Union weakens itself by infighting. Or maybe one of the sides will try to ally with Styria. Again that seems more likely for Leos side, buuut...Orso is half styrian and while Terez would fucking hate it, I could maybe see him giving up his claim to Styria entirely in his search for possible allies? He already didn't want to be king of the Union, I don't think he wants Styria. That would certainly be a twist regarding the tensions between the Union and Styria. But then again I don't now how that would fit into Vicks current storyline.

I am suspicious of everything. When Selest told Leo she wouldn't have missed his wedding even if Bayaz locked her in the House of the Maker I immediately went: Tolomei, is that you?? That's maybe more of an easter egg, but I am still pretty intrigued how and when the Bayaz plotline will come more to the forefront.

Jezal died (or was murdered?) and I'm being so brave about it. All in all not surprising. But I was so sure he would be assassinated at the end of the parade for Leo and Orso that I actually got my hopes up that he would at least survive book 1, only for the last chapter title to punch me in the gut. I literally started 2024 with reading his death. At least he died not knowing that his children had an affair.

It's amazing that I actually felt kinda bad for Savine and Orso and that they couldn't be together. It's him not knowing why that makes the situation so frustrating. I am not sure how many people in the story know of her true parentage. Maybe she will tell him herself later in the story. I guess he has to find out somewhere down the line

Given her marriage to Leo, maybe they will even use her parentage to strengthen his cause, but for that to happen, Savine would have to admit it to Leo first and right now I don't see it happening. Also the affair with Orso already seems subject to gossip, so trying to use her parentage wouldn't help her reputation at all (and I think Leo would also react with disgust) and people would for sure doubt the parentage of her own child

Speaking of which, I'm also not sure if I am supposed to question the parentage of Savines child? There was mention that she had her period shortly before Leo came to Adua, but wasn't Valbeck also right before his visit? Given that there are no paternity tests in this world, I am guessing I have to take Savines thoughts on the matter at face value and it's actually Leos child.

Interesting how the national conflicts are also kinda personal because of the partner switch at the end of A Little Hatred. Given that they are married now, I think Savine will support Leo in his treason. Still think he's a bad investment so to speak. So maybe she will use her pregnancy to get back into Orsos good graces once her side is losing.

Clover killing Wonderful also was quite the gut punch. I literally went 'oh no' the moment Stour made the request, because of course he would do it.

I find the similarities between Clover and Vick pretty interesting (in the sense that they both are betraying people around them so easily, at least seemingly)... While I am probably supposed to think that Vick will defect to Styria, the scene with Vitari makes me believe that she might actually stay loyal to Glokta in the long run. Clover on the other hand mostly thinks about his own well-being...and I don't know, I feel like Stour should watch his back around him. If the right opportunity comes along to get rid of him, I think Clover would take it. I would certainly cheer him on and it would endear him to Rikke... so maybe he will end up in her camp.

Even with all my precautions about spoilers, I think I managed to get spoiled about the identity of the weaver. I can only hope that is something that gets revealed soon, so I can go into book 3 completely blind

There is so much more I could write about these books and I am not even really halfway through (I haven't even touched on the breakers/burners etc)...

There is not one pov-character that I can't see ending up as a villain. Even the ones that start out more genial like Rikke and Orso might change for the worse, but Abercrombie does a good job of making them all the hero of their own story, if that makes sense.

I also keep thinking about people who start reading First Law with the Age of Madness trilogy and how that changes the reading experience. Don't think I would recommend that, but things like the half-sibling-reveal probably hit harder.

#First Law #The Age of Madness #A Little Hatred #The Trouble with Peace #first law spoilers #age of madness spoilers #just realized that all my speculations relies on Rikkes prophecy #hopefully Abercrombie doesn't pull the rug out from under me in that regard #I guess I just have to read and find out

[unbizzarre]

Crown Prince Orso

Love this character from Joe Abercrombie’s “Age of Madness” trilogy.

#firstlaw #joe abercrombie #first law #wisdom of crowds #a little hatred #age of madness #the trouble with peace #orso #crown prince orso #Orso Dan Luthar #fanart #first law fanart #joe Abercrombie fanart #age of madness fanart #orso fanart

[random-jot]

#polls #tumblr polls #the first law #joe abercrombie #the first law series #the blade itself #before they are hanged #last argument of kings #best served cold #the heroes #red country #sharp ends #a little hatred #the trouble with peace #the wisdom of crowds #logen ninefingers #jezal dan luthar #monza murcatto #ferro maljinn #sand dan glokta #Lord bayaz

[fantasy-hoe-25]

Honestly, the biggest plottwist of The Age of Madness was that the twink turned out to be a top.

#I mean Jurand just to be clear #I thought Glaward for sure was going to be a top since he's such a hunk and all yet #Joe is finding ways to make even the gays astonished #I just finished my re-read and I'm not okay #None of this is okay #the age of madness #Jurand #joe abercrombie #A little hatred #the wisdom of crowds #The Trouble with peace

[scelestic-reveries]

One cannot despise a thing without acknowledging its importance.

Joe Abercrombie, The Trouble with Peace.

#The Trouble With Peace #Joe Abercrombie #quote #books #s/r #scelestic reveries

[xserpx]

Leo🦁 for the blorbo bingo!

Thank you so much for sending me this ask 😆! And just to be extra obnoxiously self-indulgent I'm gonna ascribe each square I picked to a specific chapter in the Age of Madness trilogy! 🦁❤️:

OUGHHHH *disintegrates into dust*: "Jurand looked up and their eyes met, and Leo froze, his breath held, his face tingling." The Same Side, TWOC.

Blorbo from my special interest: "Leo bared his teeth, squelching forward through mud battered and mashed by countless boots advancing and retreating, advancing and retreating. The fighting had been fiercest here. Bodies everywhere. Bodies from both sides. Men still and men still moving, crawling, crying, pawing at the ground, pawing at themselves. Leo stepped between them, stepped over them, teeth clenched, head throbbing, pushing on towards the bridge." Settle This Like Men, ALH.

Putting them thru the horrors: "‘I’m fine,’ said Leo, weakly shaking the man off. Fine. Broken, defeated, in constant agony, with a useless arm and an amputated leg, convicted of treason and already on the gallows. Fine." A Footnote to History, TTWP.

I HATE YOU: "Before the Great Change it would’ve been him asking whether they should do something. Bursting through that door in some self-indulgent, self-defeating puke of gallantry. But then he used to be a reckless, soft-hearted fool." Love, Hate, Fear, TWOC.

Fandom is so mean to them 💔: "‘Are you sure?’ asked Brock. ‘I have three-score flatbows with a different opinion.’" The Sentence, TWOC.

Explodes them with my mind (affectionate): "‘No, no, it’s the small cutlery, Leo.’" Common Ground, TTWP.

Gay infinity: "They’d touched each other a thousand times. They’d wrestled and sparred and hugged. But there was something different about that touch. More than one old friend supporting another. Far more. Jurand’s hand didn’t just rest there. It squeezed, ever so lightly, and Leo felt a strange need to tilt his head and press his cheek against it. Take that hand and hold it to his face, to his heart, to his mouth." Grown Up, TTWP.

Bouncing off the walls: "‘Cheer up.’ Leo hugged him roughly with one arm, looking back to the building. The one lit window. ‘There are plenty of ladies for all of us.’ Though he couldn’t think of any close to Savine dan Glokta’s class. ‘Plenty of ladies,’ Jurand echoed, gloomily." A Bit About Courage, ALH.

Killing them with hammers: "Now they huddled in close. United by a common enemy, and a shared purpose, and a righteous cause. Just talk, of course, fuelled by Leo’s frustration, and jealousy, and the pain in his leg. Just talk, perhaps, but dangerous, still. Exciting, still. Just talk, wasn’t it? But with each word said it became more thrillingly real." Future Treason, Past Affairs, TTWP.

Bestie it's not funny anymore get therapy: "They’d both stabbed him in the back while they stabbed each other in the face, yet somehow they could glide away friends, ruling the gardens, loved by all, while he was left nursing unhealable wounds, hated and feared and alone." Good Times, TWOC.

Free Space: "As handsome a crowd of young heroes as you could hope to find. What a painting they’d make! Maybe Leo would get one commissioned. Who’d know an artist?" Young Heroes, ALH.

Babygirl 💖 (has committed horrific atrocities): "‘They love the fire,’ said Leo, tugging his jacket smooth, then turning away. ‘They can have the fire.’" Purity, TWOC.

HGGHHGHHJKGHJURTGEHJM etc: "He wanted to say it all. To puke up his resentments. He had his mouth open to do it. But why bother? The past isn’t made of facts, not really, just stories people tell to make themselves feel better. To make themselves look better." Not For the Prizes, TWOC.

Smacking the floor: "What he wanted to do more than anything was lurch into Jurand’s arms and never let go of him." Different This Time, TWOC.

Rotating in my brain like a rotisserie chicken: "He hated Styria, hated Sipani, hated Cardotti’s, hated this degenerate excuse for a king most of all. He raised his chin, trying to look haughtily down his nose, but his eyes kept being drawn to that trail of dark hair from Jappo’s navel into the not entirely concealing shadows of his gown…" All Tastes, No Judgements, TTWP.

The fandom doesn't know them like I do: "‘We both know you’re not a fool, Leo. For whose benefit are you pretending to be one?’" Where The Fight's Hottest, ALH.

pls talk to me about them I promise I'll be normal :))): "‘You can call me treacherous. Call me ruthless. But ask who I learned it from.’" The Villain, TWOC.

Explodes them with my mind (derogatory): "‘Goes to show,’ he grunted, ‘you have to be your own hero.’" Redemption, TWOC.

Tearing them apart with my teeth: "A representative from the Angland delegation was plucking at the hem of Leo’s jacket in an effort to pull him down, but Leo angrily slapped his hand away. ‘Sit down, you bloody fool,’ Savine forced through gritted teeth, gripping the rail of the gallery. But the Young Lion would not sit down." The King's Justice, TTWP.

Tucking them into bed and kissing them on the forehead 💖: "Tits. Men talked a lot about tits. So Leo did, too. Nudge in the ribs, look at the cargo she’s carrying. But if he was entirely honest, he didn’t really understand the appeal. To Leo, tits were just… there." The Lion and the Wolf, ALH.

#the first law #the age of madness #joe abercrombie #leo dan brock #a little hatred #the trouble with peace #the wisdom of crowds

[trorklin]

RIKKE DUDE. FUCKING RIKKE THE GOAT MY GOD STEAL THAT FUCKERS CITY YEAHHHHHH

#the trouble with peace

[nocontextfirstlawtrilogy]

"Who the hell are you?" demanded the spoon-thief.

~ Best Served Cold, Joe Abercrombie

#the first law #joe abercrombie #first law ooc #first law out of context #tflooc #out of context #the first law trilogy #the great leveller trilogy #the age of madness trilogy #the blade itself #before they are hanged #last argument of kings #best served cold #the heroes #red country #sharp ends #a little hatred #the trouble with peace #submission

[luckspren]

Finished The Trouble with Peace

I love Orso. He's my guy. Which makes me sooo worried that with him complaining about hangings all the time, he will end up complaining about his own. After all the lamb is next in line to be eaten. I loved the scenes he had with Jappo and the dinner with Leo (and how those scenes show the contrast between Orso and Leo) ... man he's intelligent enough that I could actually see him maneuvering around the restrictions of his title and changing at least some things for the better if he applied himself and if he had the time, instead of mitigating/surviving one crises after the other

Where do I even start with Leo. There were so many moments where I wanted to reach into the story to throttle him and just by reading the blurb on the back of book 3 I suspect that he might still not have learned his lesson. What do you mean he wants to be a hero of the new age. How many limbs does he essentially have to lose and how many of his friends does he have to get killed before he stops to think for once.

His head really is empty, but he's definitely an expert when it comes to justifying his decisions. So maybe he will actually embrace his role as a traitor somewhere down the line. I feel like he always doubles down on his decisions right after he momentarily doubts himself. So once he realizes that the breakers/burners are on the move and also want to get rid of the crown, maybe he will feel vindicated after all?? Just like with the Stour/Leo duel in A Little Hatred I now am worried that Orso will regret sparing Leo.

I wish Finree would have told Leo that he is pissing away everything his father worked for. I can't believe that didn't really come up.

So while Leo did seem to be more reflective after he lost, in true Abercrombie fashion I expect him to fall back into old habits. Still gonna be interesting how he adapts to his new circumstances, though. I guess he has to do at least some things a little different now.

I actually was right about Jurand and Glaward after all. And Leo reacted as expected. In a way Jurand dodged a bullet. But it is kinda sad that Leo still can't parse his own feelings at all, even after the fact. Maybe he will actually get a second chance at repairing that relationship.

While I always thought that Savine would eventually help with the treason, she really did not have to think about it at all. The total disregard she had for Orso and especially her father... my god. Obviously she went through a lot and I understand her anger towards her family for keeping her parentage a secret. But it still made me feel bad for Glokta. He seems to care about her so much

Speaking of which I hope we do see him again. While this is very much the story of the next generation, I would be disappointed if he just died off screen of old age. Would love to see his reaction to Pike being the Weaver

Also the Savine/Leo and Ardee/Glokta parallels kinda make me doubt my assessment that Savine is actually pregnant with Leos child again. I guess I have to see if Orso starts to wonder. I'm not even sure if it's supposed to be ambiguous, it's probably Leos.

I am in general a little nervous about the breakers/burners- plot taking center stage. Mainly because Broad is still my least favorite pov (by far) and characters like Judge might work in small doses, but could become overbearing in more of a main role. I liked Vick way more than in book 1 though, so maybe she will bring me back around

Clover betraying Stour happened faster than I anticipated. I don't see how anybody can really trust him after this. Still happy to be rid of Stour though, I think Calder is the more interesting antagonist for Rikke

The axe with the owl on the cover of Wisdom of Crowds makes me think of the North (mainly because of choice of weapon) and I had Rikke as a contender for the owl. But based on the blurb the northern plot does seem pretty separate from the Union plot. So I don't know. Maybe Orso flees and then Rikke turns him over. I'm not even sure if the cover means anything. Like Leos sword is specifically mentioned in the text, but I can't remember is Stour ever wore a wolfs helmet. Hmm. I'm sure the identity of the owl will become clear while reading.

Any hope I had like five books ago, that Bayaz would finally be taken down in this trilogy is dwindling by the page. I do not think there is time for that

#First Law #Age of Madness #The Trouble with Peace #Joe Abercrombie #god I am sooooo nervous #I'm almost dreading reading further #right now Orso is too likable for a character in a first law book #the death flag is enormous :(((