#ThisPostIsLongerThanMyLifeSpan

[worstloki]

Mischief Gremlin Appreciation

Thor & Loki: Double Trouble Issue #1 (2021-)

#a good reason to read comics #~* loki *~ #that's it #he hasn't even got style or class he's just got big words and a bigger attitude and 1 pair of gloves he never changes #devious chaos icon #never question him again #Thor & Loki: Double Trouble #yes i just made an entire post solely to get loki in #ThisPostIsLongerThanMyLifeSpan #TPILTMLS #this art style is so good #this comic PROVIDES

[worstloki]

(Un)fortunately I didn't jump on the Marvel train until recently, and I'm a bit confused regarding Loki and the torture everyone keeps talking about? My rough timeline is, after Thor 1 he ended up in Jeff Goldblum's planet,,,,, aaand Avengers 1. I don't know when or why Thanos had him or whatever. Also, does it get outright stated in a movie or is it subtext? My biggest question is what the even fuck was doing Loki hanging out with Thanos in the first place

Welcome!! I do hope you enjoy the movies and fandom!! Your timeline seems to be missing Thor 2, and the chronological watching order should be:

- Thor 1

- Avengers 1

- Thor: The Dark World

- Thor: Ragnarok

- Infinity War

That Loki is/was tortured around/during Avengers 1 is canon! And so is the fact that the scepter he was using through the movie was also influencing him! Both of these are made pretty explicit and shown on-screen, though it's never talked about or referred to again outside of the film, so many people watching casually are likely to miss or dismiss it due to his role as the main antagonist in the film.

At the end of Thor 1 Loki fell into a wormhole, then in that same movie we are shown in the credit scene after the film that he survived, but he isn't exactly looking too good:

This follows into Avengers 1 and it's typically accepted that it takes place around a year or so after Thor 1.

In Avengers 1 Loki is implied to have spent his time in space with 'allies' (later revealed to fall under the Ultimate Big Bad who is Thanos, someone who can and has used torture on-screen on numerous occasions to get what he wants). The film opens with it being revealed that Loki will be allowed rule of Earth in exchange for the Tesseract (which he has the unique ability to obtain), and is able to use the army his 'allies' provide to complete both sides of the bargain.

Upon his arrival at Earth he looks and acts disoriented and crazed, attacking agents and using the sceptre he was given by his allies to mind control a few people. He stumbles and can be seen sweating profusely during these scenes as well as contradicts his position through the previous movie that he didn't want to rule. He also uses an oxymoron about freedom and proceeds to leave hints at his plan through the film, but that leads into the theory that he wasn't trying to win with his invasion and is open to interpretation.

Despite coming from 'allies' he essentially looks in worse condition at the beginning of the film than the end when the heroes have defeated him, including chill non-hostile behaviour immediately after losing.

Loki is only shown conversing with his 'allies' once, and we are shown he is doing the invasion under duress (threats, physical harm, heavily implied psychological harm) which is why his forced cooperation by them is explicit during the course of the film.

Deleted Avengers 1 footage tells us that the 'allies' had a telepathic link which caused pain and had him being monitored through the course of the invasion too but those scenes aren't canon canon.

Here are a few other posts about this with gifs detailing symptoms and going into theorizing into what torture was involved because while we know Loki was tortured during the film we're not given many details, and a lot of people deny it. (x) (x) (x) (x).

It's worth noting that this never being explicitly addressed in-canon again has basically resulted in the MCU retconing it years later and deciding Loki was motivated completely on his own with the invasion and was using Thanos to achieve the goal of gaining power because he's powerhungry and has control issues since he was a baby apparently (they also got rid of a few other backstory things of his), but that's kinda not what the narrative Thor 1 and Avengers 1 tells us on-screen, so it's open to however you wish to interpret it and future appearances.

#listen listen #loki was shown being tortured on-screen and thanks to the end of thor 1 we know stuff was dodgy with him for like a year #what was he doing with thanos? #well if you take the show and the movies over the last 3 years he was wooing the man and talking his way into an army #if you go the first 7ish years you get that all thrown in WITH torture and likely training for battle along the way too #some people go the route of explaining loki's condition at the start of the movie as the teleportation putting him in a terrible state #which is one way to do it i guess #but he was still tortured on-screen #and there are some things which don't make much sense unless loki was completely out of it during the invasion or trying to fail #he basically hinted at what he was doing the entire way #got himself captured for no reason other than to escape i guess #tony stark tells him he p*ssed off all the avengers personally so they hate him and loki says ''that was the plan'' #just a whole bunch of stuff #loki's eye colour was also recently confirmed to be blue rather than green but a lot of people theorize full mind control with the scepter #since we aren't ever told how much influence the sceptre had on loki that's open for interpretation #anyway #welcome to the marvel fandom #i hope you have fun :D! #ThisPostIsLongerThanMyLifeSpan #TPILTMLS #thank you for the ask!! #always fun to go over Avengers 1 again :) #if i missed anything feel free to add on

[worstloki]

Top Forty Thor-Being-Thor Moments from Thor 1

just absolute dumb*ssery that this 7yr old kid’s life goal is to “hunt down the monsters and slay them all”. I’ll go easy on him here and let the Thor/Loki expressions do the talking because of “...just like you did Father” but seriously can his hands even fit around a sword handle??? this kid isn’t even punching the air right??? if there was a sword in his hand he would’ve cut his head with the way he’s moving???? pure tiny-himbo energy here just look at that >:o face he’s making. contrasts very nicely with Loki’s ‘,:|. 10/10. such a baby idiot.

“the jotuns must pay for what they have done! they broke into the weapons vault! if the frost giants had stolen even one of these relics!” thor. thor please. can you even name one of these relics. thor. hey thor. thor. shut up. “well, what would you do about this?” odin asks him. “march into jotunheim! like you once did! break their spirits! so they’ll never try anything like this again!” wow okay so we’ve fast-forwarded by like a thousand years and thor is still going on about genocide. huh. that’s funny, i thought loki was the genocidal one. hmm. i also just realized that the loki exclusive clip gives loki the same hairstyle thor has here so do what you will with that information.

0/10. horrible. terrible. i dont care how angy thor is about not getting to kill some jotuns or become king today this very instant, that is a tremendous waste of food. an absolute fool. how can he just remorselessly throw the bread to the floor. if loki stabbed him when he was 7 he would deserve it for this table flip alone. what a privileged white *ssh*le.

loki came skulking around a corner and suggested not to go to jotunheim and not only did thor not suspect anything but he also then went on to decide to go to jotunheim. 10/10 himbo material. 

if tumblr didn’t have a picture limit i would put every instance of thor smiling in this list because look at that stupid smile. he’s such an idiot. 11/10. this is the thor content i’m here for.

“I have no plans to die today” thor says with the stupidest open-mouthed smirking smile ever captured on film. right after he also told heimdall not to tell anyone they’re gone. he’s literally planned to strand them on jotunheim. thor’s grand plan was to strange themselves on jotunheim and also start a fight. i repeat: thor’s plan was to successfully slay all the frost giants and not need to return until they’re all gone. what an absolute d*mb*ss. this is getting ridiculous. this was originally a top-ten-thor moments list but i’m not even twenty minutes in so i’ll have to extend the list. thor. thor are you listening? thor, you’re such an idiot.

“HOW DID YOUR PEOPLE GET INTO ASGARD?!” thor you sweet sweet summer idiot, please, i am beggin,g you,, learn to rea,d , a room,, literally everyone else who came with you is regretting it, there is complete silence and only the rumble of the opposing king is meeting your “I AM THOR, SON OF ODIN”s, please, please take some notes from Loki, or, you know, literally anyone else in the room, since everyone is asking you to get out of this realm while you still can,

thor’s stupid smile makes an appearance after he gets called a princess and decides to fight a whole realm over it. you know what? thor is a princess. he’s the prettiest princess in all the lands. what’s thor gonna do about it? is he going to fight me too? I hope he does the stupid grin first. minus 15 points for the sexism. thor is a complete and utter sadistic fool who needs to get a hobby. seriously, he’s 1500 years old and still going on and on about slaying all the frost giants. boi, i hate to break it to you, but your dad is not the best or only example of greatness out there. i don’t think your dad even qualifies as an example of that. 

“THEN. GO!” 🥰 ahh yes, just thor thingz 🥰🥰 like when one friend has had his arm burnt 🥰 and another friend has been impaled and needs medical attention, 🥰🥰 and all the rest of your friends are yelling for you, 🥰 and your brother is telling you they must go, 🥰 and you decide to buy everyone time by laughing maniacally and killing more frosties because you care for them and dont find joy in destruction like a loon 🥰🥰🥰 

THIS is the iconic Thor moment that makes my day whenever I think about it. Just Thor, an absolute bumbering 6′6′’ giant boodlusting dummy sees Odin and just decides to yell “FATHAA!! WE’LL FINISH THEM TOGETHAAA!” as if the last thing Odin told him wasn’t “no, thor, we’re not going to do anything to the frost giants, do not go after them and try to kill them all.” 11/10 d*mb*assery right here folks, I couldn’t ask for Thor to be more of a fool. This is PEAK Thor energy. Look at that face. I feel like Thor spends half this movie with his nostrils flared. I love it.

okay i gotta give thor credit for rightfully calling odin “an old man and a fool” but also there was not even 1 frame of the scene where Thor had a decent face so now all i see is >:O >:| >:o >:[ when i watch that scene. yelling at odin was great, not yelling at odin after he HUAERGHed at loki was less great, but to be fair it’s thor and he is the definition of Peak D*mb*ss. 

thor literally GROWLS and starts yelling “HAMMAA?? HAMMER??” over and over. He was hit by a van, he fainted, he woke up and started growling. I don’t know what else there is to say about this.

“you dare threaten me? puny human?”. so. uhh. basically. Thor knew she was threatening him? He KNEW she had a weapon? instead he made a face and started yelling as he tried to walk his way closer????? thor you complete and utter dum dum. you frickin hairball-for-brains. im not even surprised darcy tasered him. with that kind of face, i’d taser him too.

when you wake up in an unknown place to a person smiling at you without a stupid smile, the first step is always to attack first and ask questions later 😌😌😌 (but seriously thor you imbecile why didn’t you ask where you were instead of throwing multiple people around the room and getting your butt needled. you clueless buffoon. you’ll remain a clueless buffoon if you don’t listen to anyone.)

just a quick recap but thor was knocked unconscious by a van and these people kidnapped him aboard and the next scene we see him in he’s checking himself out in  mirror after presumably changing right there in the open?????? these are the things that make thor thor. any other character and i’d question it so much, but this is thor, and i truly believe this is in-character for him. just change in the open because why not? thor is a beefcake and that’s his only redeeming quality and he knows it. 10/10 thor moment. 

I am now convinced that Thor saw Jane and “5k van-hitter to lover slow-burn height-difference himbo-scientist trope” flashed through his mind.

“but no more smashing!” Jane says, and then Thor proceeds to check her out and smile unlike an idiot and like a douche. was this his version of flirting???? i’m not one to decide, but yes, yes it was. He threw a cup to the ground and broke it, and she’s getting mad at him and berating him about it, and he’s liking it. y’all i’m sorry to break it to you like this, but thor has a canon fetish. i am so, so sorry.

im DYING. THAT ISN’T EVEN A KISS, HIS MOUTH IS OPEN. he SMUSHES his mouth around her knuckle???? WHY. I can’t keep noticing things like this. send help. please. Jane’s response makes so much more sense now; she’s laughs for a solid 3 seconds and shakes her head and is like “uhh, thank you? ahaha,” and then she keeps looking back longingly when walking away. they are doing this in PLAIN sight of EVERYONE. Darcy and Erik are standing RIGHT THERE, and Thor is doing weird things to her with his mouth. I’m out. I am done here. goodbye. 

return of the stupid smile AND the douche smile in quick succession through the entire trip. their entire dialogue is peppered with innuendo. “I’ve never done anything like this before. have you ever done anything like this before?” “many times, but you are brave to do it.” “I have nothing else to lose.” “ah but you are clever, far more clever than anyone else on this realm.” “realm? rEaLm?” “you think me strange?” “yes” “good strange or bad strange?” “I haven’t decided yet.” I AM DYING OVER THIS. plus, we get Return Of The Himbo with Jane asking after Einstein Rosen bridges and Thor is like “uh, actually, more like a rainbow bridge 😜🤪” i feel so sorry for jane here, didn’t know how much of a d*mb*ss Thor was when signing up for this van-trip and knuckle-sucking 😭😭😭 i also no longer have questions about how the trip that SHOULD HAVE BEEN A HALF-HOUR ONE turned into one that LASTED TILL THE SUN WENT FROM THE MIDDLE OF THE SKY TO SETTING by the time they arrived. I have no questions. please. I don’t want to know what they were doing in that van. please no. don’t make me think about it.

thor’s plan had 3 steps and they were 1. give jane his jacket 2. walk in and get his hammer 3. fly out. that was literally his plan. he had the first “I have a plan. attack.” moment in the MCU. pure concentrated 0-brain-cells energy right here. how can you not stan this king of d*mb*ssery. look at him, flaunting his big boy muscles. he’s about get his hammer and fly out, like he just told jane with a trademark stupid-smile.

crop-top hair-mop thor is my favourite thor. the way the entire fight scene parallels a hamster in a maze only exemplifies the thor vibes for some inexplicable reason.

“you’re big. fought bigger.” + Thor douche-smile + subtext from earlier + rolling around passionately in the mud = not a happy me. 

I swear i’m not making up this romantic subtext but it’s barely even subtext. the entire scene leading up to Thor’s attempt at lifting the hammer is actually filmed erotically. I’m not kidding. First there’s a shot where Thor pulls aside a hamster-cage-wall blind which mirrors a shower-curtain, and THEN he walks around the hammer while smiling douche-ly at it, we get a few close-ups to his face which are shot from angles slightly lower than himself, giving him an aire of superiority, plus the music adds to this, he reaches out for the hammer’s handle with a mud-covered arm in the rain, in non-slow-motion slow-motion, and he wraps his arm around it, like, he fully twists his arm, unecessarily sexually, around it as he grabs the hammer. This is not okay. On the plus side, it makes the movie much more entertaining,, on the down side,,.

im not going to call Thor dumb for not knowing he’s not worthy. im not going to. because odin literally whispered the enchantment to mjolnir after he’d thrown thor to midgard. it is very funny watching thor grunt in frustration though. he starts yelling because he couldn’t lift the hammer and just lets himself get caught. like, dude, get a life, go buy a new weapon from the store, seriously. he mourns for the hammer on-screen longer than he does for loki. he also looks like he’s in far more pain here. he becomes catatonic and unresponsive after this, but when loki dies he’s already feasting the same afternoon. 10/10 dum dum thor material. never change thor, never change. (that’s code for please change, thor, please,)

thor trying to establish dominance wherever he goes is the funniest thing because at this point he’s being a complete asgardian *ss about it and it’s reaching points of pettiness never seen before. side note: he is possibly flirting with selvig too. maybe. i’m not saying anything happened, but Thor’s openning lines when bringing him home carried over his shoulder are “he’s fine, not injured at all,” followed with an apology to selvig, and an explanation to jane which consisted only of “we drank, we fought, he made his ancestors proud,” and then he puts the man to bed and before he falls asleep erik says “i still don’t believe you’re the g*d of th*nder, but you ought to be,” so... your choice, i guess...

thor’s got his trademark stupid smile and stupidly takes jane’s life’s work notebook and starts doodling in it about trees. the last time his father told him this story about Yggdrasil was when he was 5 and he clearly hasn’t payed attention to any lesson about anything since and it shows so so much. thank you thor. very insightful knowledge you’re passing on hear. ‘i come from a world where [science and magic] are one and the same,’ ok great, now elaborate on that please. oh, right, you can’t because you’re thor, my bad, 20/10 thor behaviour. he couldn’t even doodle nicely. all his lines are wobbly. epic art fail. i wouldn’t trust him near my sketchbook with a 2B pencil.

THIS is thor’s realization face. in case anyone was interested in what ‘dawning truth’ looked like on him. 😰😪 THIS is the face of a thinker, of a man betrayed by his own beloved brother for unprecedented reasons. look at the nuance in his expression. 😩😩😩 so many emotions, I can’t even count them all 😩💯😪

stupid smile and “do not worry my friends, i have a plan,” he says, “i’ll just try and abuse the fact that Loki’s super selfless and kind and has no self worth to my benefit as i have countless times before which is exactly what he’s rightfully angry about this time,” he doesn’t think to himself because that is NOT the smile of someone who is thinking... like, at all. +10000 points to gryffinthor. the d*mb*ssery really jumps out.

“im sorry bro for whatever i did and whatever you’re blaming me for as an excuse to do this, im sorry bro, but you’re disturbing innocents that i don’t really care about but you’re the one making a scene in front of them so why don’t you admit you won’t kill me and are just having a temper tantrum and we move on? hmm?” and then he proceeds to get slam dunked in the face with a metal arm like yEAAAA BOI that’s what you GET for going up against the SENTIENT LAVA-SPEWING metal-man ya absolute dunderhead clod. thunderhead clod? yeah, that. he’s just so dumb, your honour, please, you must understand, the victim pleads guilty on all charges of d*mb*ss and d*mb*ss alone.

I can NOT describe the emotions I feel knowing that Thor is suck-kissing Jane’s knuckles. Like, his mouth is literally jelly-ing it up against her hand. There is suction there and it shows when he is placing and removing his mouth. I promise that’s what is happening. I’m not any happier than you about this. I regret everything. This is why Loki should be what is focused on and not Thor; Thor’s going around trying to frick frack everything in sight even if it’s just Jane’s hand. He’s maintaining eye contact with Jane while he licks her fingers. Why did I decide to rewatch this movie. 

i’m only adding this in as a thor moment because of how desperately and badly they kiss. seriously. 2/10 kiss. im not surprised jane broke up with him. they look like two actual seals fighting over an actual grape. while i’m here i’m going to criticize every fic ever that decided thor is an experienced gentle lover. what were y’all on when watching this movie. thor can and will f*ck literally everything in sight and he won’t even do it well because he is the peakest of peak d*m d*m. look at this man. look at his face. that is the face of an absolute himbo idiot, and it’s the face of an absolute himbo idiot who knows it. he’s been stranded on earth for 2 days, max, and his flirt-count is at 69 people because his name is one letter away from thot. i bet his terrible use of a pen from early means he writes his ‘r’s like ‘t’s and he doesn’t even care. 1000/10 thor moment. doesn’t get much more romance-thor than two individuals smooshing their faces together after some finger sucking. that finger sucking is gonna leave jane simping for years. and that’s true love babey. <3

“I’ll handle my Brother!” Thor says, as if Loki didn’t send a metal-murder-bot that quite virtually killed him less than ten minutes ago asdfhkhsdgsdjf Thor, you horrific himbo you, Loki’s weapon of choice is literally throwing knives he will literally kill you before you enter the room if he’s on his game and wants you dead which he just proved he would do and you’re just gonna???????????? jog on over to him????? Thor??????????? bruH???????????? buddy??????? pal???????? you really wanna go 1v1 the brother you very clearly underestimate and know nothing about????????????????? im loving the confidence, but, no.

Loki: “you literally can’t stop this from here.” Thor, immediately: “i’m going to hit it with the hammer and see if that works” and then it does in fact work later... technically speaking, even if it ends up causing chaos destruction and death and loki falling off the bifrost 😔😔😔 but Big Brain Thor is the Biggest Brained Thor!!! The plan worked!! in a messy-Thor-ish way, but it did!!!

“you can’t kill an entire race!!!!” Thor yells, teeth gritted, as he faces his brother, his coward pacifist brother, who has suddenly decided he wants to join the age-old family tradition of realm-destroying, when this is supposed to be Thor’s dream, Thor’s, not Loki’s. How dare he, Thor thinks to himself, fist clenched around Mjolnir in anger, the pain of the handle pressing against his palm perhaps the only thing preventing him from lashing out at this thought, that’s my planet of monsters to slay, he should go get his own! Loki hits Thor across the face with the back-end of his spear. “Now fight me,” Loki says, but Thor, well, Thor cannot fight, as he remains stunned that of all things Loki would dare steal his life’s ambition, and he is sent sprawling backwards across the observatory, slowly but surely sliding to a stop despite his catatonic, very symbolic silence.

the elegance, the poise, i see your time on earth has made you no less graceful, Thor. the simple magnitude of this sprawl. the spread of the arms. the turn of the feet. this is not a dude, this is a man.

sometimes your brother starts vehemently talking about he’s gonna kill the race of monsters and about how he’s only ever wanted to be your equal and about how he’s not your brother and never was and sometimes you just have to say “this is madness” instead of addressing the issues or asking for any of the  deets 🔥 👊💯😩

Loki is whipping Thor’s butt. Both literally, and metaphorically, Loki is whooping Thor’s d*mb*ss. Earlier he knicked Thor’s face, now he’s just pushing Thor around, he uses the spear as a pole and later kicks Thor’s face by kicking vertically up, and Thor, bless him in all his blond golden muscled glory, doesn’t think anything is up with this, gosh he’s such an absolute utter idiot

sometimes your brother laughs way too much and also cries too much in a fight and there are also too many of him so you just need to blast lightning so you get a shot at all of them 😌😌😌 and then put your magical infinitely-heavy hammer on his chest 😌😌😌 but it’s okay because Thor left holes in Loki’s container 😌😌😌

now THIS is the meat to Thor’s funny bone, just the pure unadulterated humour that is Thor saying that there will never be a “wiser king” or a “better father” than Odin, it cracks me up every single time without fail, just the way he says it with a straight face and— what do you mean he wasn’t joking

look at Thor’s stupid smile as he asks Heimdall to spy on jane every single day while conveniently never asking after Loki ever. This is Thor’s face in mourning after he attended a feast after everyone was celebrating after Loki’s death. Look at his stupid smile. I love him your honour. He’s just,, he’s just so frickin stewpeed, just Thor being Thor, just the purest of d*mbest of *sses. 

#listen #if people can interpret loki and the grandmaster as a thing when loki spends the entire time looking uncomfortable about every situation #then i can interpret thor as flirting with people when there are actual canon questions which get solved when other explanations dont work #so #dont mind me here #in conclusion: thor is a dum dum idiot and it's *chef's kiss* #thank you for coming to my ted talk #ThisPostIsLongerThanMyLifeSpan #TPILTMLS #Language! #language #im one of those people who comments on things through movies but you can't be mad because it's worth it and i've got points #obviously writing means i can get the full gist of the comments out without summarizing #but #like #my family is simply underappreciative and i'm a genius

[worstloki]

what?? comic???? is?? the one???? where loki can turn radioactive at will?????? i would like to read it

Oh it's not a big thing but that would be Issue #1 of The Avengers (1963) which I believe was the first comic where the team formed ;)

He can just Do That for a few minutes according to Thor, which I'm pretty sure means he's done it before sdjhbagvjhydbj they get rid of him by dropping him into a lead box sahgjvadbhka

I feel the need to warn you of the art in the first few issues of this comic especially but in Avengers (1996) in issues #10-11 he does something I think is similar when he absorbs the energy of a nuclear reactor and while that isn't becoming radioactive it's real cool bc we know he can use energy like that and also Amora Wanda Thor and Agatha Harkness all have to use their strength to provide a distraction to him. That's fun.

He does get cool moments through the run though because he tricks and schemes and all :') it's also incredibly funny to watch the ladies kiss people in the name of scheming :') good for comedy and Loki being a dastardly bad guy :')

#he can do it but i don't recall him actually going radioactive again? #sorry #the latter comic though is fun #it has iconically bad panels in it and everything #Amora's LEGS in this run #all the lady legs are like x1.5 what they should be like the thighs are just so >>> i worry for what their femurs look like #it's ridiculous #along with all the giant steroid-y muscles everywhere #but hey!!! i liked how Loki and Amora's outfits matched okay #they looked shiny and cool #comic rec #comic recs #ThisPostIsLongerThanMyLifeSpan #TPILTMLS

[worstloki]

wait i always thought the blonde ponytail thing is like a ribbon or tassel or something, is it hair??

It’s drawn like hair and uses what I think is hair physics a lot of the time so I assume it’s hair when it’s like this

i mean it’s not like he’s never done a regular ponytail 

plus there’s this

BUT sometimes he also uses a ribbon??? multiple ribbons???

in conclusion

#I've thrown which universe out the window here #because this is about character design and this character has... a few... designs #specifically with the hair/ribbon #of all the 616 i've read I've been seeing blonde hair ponytail #I'm only just noticing King Loki has ribbon things at some point too #so yeah #i don't know which it's meant to be #could be fake hair could be real #i figure if he's not bothered to dye it just stick a ribbon on XD #ThisPostIsLongerThanMyLifeSpan #TPILTMLS

[worstloki]

please read the article 'How White Fandom is Colonizing "Character-Coding"' by Shafira Jordan and quit while you're ahead

Okay, so I read it and see the problem, and I’ll try to address all their points in order because I don’t wholly agree with the article. I know it’s a lot to read so I’ve put tldr; sections at the end of each :)

Misusing the Term Reinforces Negative Stereotypes for Marginalized People 

The article essentially argues that labeling characters which are villainous as POC-coded is bad because they’re not morally pure and doing so "reinforces the idea that people of color are naturally dangerous and not to be trusted.”

Which is fair as you don’t want all the representation to be of ‘bad’ characters, but I also don’t believe all representative characters have to be ‘good’ either as it would be equally racist to divide good/bad in such a way. Not that I would place Loki under ‘bad’ to begin with, but arguing that characters shouldn’t be labelled as POC-coded for reasons unrelated to what’s presented in the narrative or because they did bad things is :/ even if lack of good representation is a prevalent issue in current Western and influenced media. 

Ideally there should be a range of representative characters that fall into ‘good’, ‘bad’, and ‘anywhere in-between’ because variety and complexity in character types should, in theory, be treated as common practice (which can only happen with a multitude of representation!).

And a bit unrelated but... within the fictional context of Thor 1, all the Jotnar (sans Loki) are presented to the audience as ‘bad’ by default. They desperately want to get their Casket back to the point of attempting stealing it (from the ‘good’ characters), they fight the heroes and even when the gang and Thor (’good’ characters) are enjoying or going overboard with taking lives it’s inconsequential, Laufey wants to kill the opposing king (who just happens to be a ‘good’ character) and will resort to low-handed methods to do so, etc. The narrative itself is from the frame of reference of the ‘good’ and we only see warriors of Jotunheim though so we understand why it’s like this, because regardless of their race/experiences the narrative carries, even if it most definitely would be seen as racist from our real-life perspectives if the ‘monstrous’ race were presented by actual people of colour, even if it would make sense for the people on on different realms living in different environments to be different from each other, and realistic even for that to be the root of some conflict. 

tldr; not using a specific label to prevent negative presentations of the characters seems a bit strange to do when the coding would be based off the text, but with limited representation available I see why it would be done, even if I still believe minority-coding is free game to expand/interpret.

Improperly Labeling a Character as “POC-coded” Suggests the Experiences of All People of Color are the Same 

The article argues that labeling Loki as POC-coded “suggests that all people of color have the same experiences, when in reality, people of color come from different places, have different cultures, and have different traditions.” And while it’s true that the term doesn’t go into detail about which particular experiences (and these experiences can vary vastly due to diversity!) the appropriate measure would be to remove the umbrella term POC altogether as people of colour tend to also vary. But that’s also exactly why it’s an all-encompassing general term? It’s a way to denote anyone who isn’t “white” and has the associated cultural privilege that comes with the concept of white supremacy.  

And, obviously, in the fictional setting presented, the concept of white supremacy is not prodded at, but cultural supremacy is definitely one that makes recurring appearances, right next to the parts about Asgard being a realm built on imperialism with ongoing colonial practice. 

My take on this is that Loki’s narrative features a struggle with identity after finding out he’s of a different race and was being treated differently his entire life and being Jotun was presumably a part of the reasoning even if he didn’t know it. He’s basically treated as of less worth for inherently existing differently. I do believe that racism is a common-enough POC experience, but that while Loki was born with blue skin he passes/appears white which is why I don’t say that Loki is a POC, just that he has been coded/can be interpreted this way. 

There’s also the entire thing with Loki trying to fit in and prove he belongs by trying to fit the theory and be The Most Asgardian by committing genocide (which ultimately makes no difference as he’s still not the ‘acceptable’ version of Asgardian), and the denial/rejection of his birth culture in destructively lashing out towards them (which even Thor is confused by because Loki isn’t typically violent), and the fact his self worth plummets and he is passively suicidal upon finding out he’s Jotun (internalized racism? general drop in self-worth after finding out he’s adopted and has been lied to? Bit of both?), but what do I know, I’m sure none of those are, at their base, common experiences or relatable feelings for anyone or decent rep because we see such themes on-screen presented wonderfully in different lights all the time. 

tldr; every set of experiences could be different, some types of discrimination could overlap, if you limit an umbrella term to only very specific circumstances then it’s no longer an umbrella term.

Suggesting that White Characters are Meant to be Seen as People of Color Ignores the Actual Characters of Color that are Present in these Stories

I don’t agree with most of this section, but that may just be the way the arguments are put together, which I don’t blame the author for.

“ Implying that Loki is a person of color completely ignores Heimdall and Hogun, the only Black and Asian Asgardians who appear in the movie. ”

Characters such as Hogun and Heimdall which are played by actual people of colour have smaller roles in the films and any prejudice they could face for being POC in-universe isn’t made apparent, while Loki at the very least comes to the realization that something he couldn’t change (race, parentage,) was having him treated differently his whole life and had to come to terms with it. The Vanir/Aesir are also both treated similarly on-screen, and Heimdall having dark skin isn’t plot relevant, whereas Jotnar are treated as lesser consistently and are relevant through the movie (breaking into the vault, Thor and co. attack Jotunheim, Loki’s deal with Laufey, the attempted regicide (and the successful one XD), destroying jotunheim, Loki saying he’s not Thor’s brother,). 

I also see including characters as POC-coded as... more representation? In all canon-compliant interpretations of the characters Hogun being Vanir is always explicitly mentioned because it’s a fact that just is, up to the appearance and even the world-building of Vanaheim in some fanworks use particularly East Asian culture as inspiration. I have never come across a Marvel fandom Heimdall interpretation where he’s not Black... but because these characters are more minor/side-characters of course they get less attention! 

“ In Loki’s fandom, Heimdall’s name sometimes gets thrown in to suggest that it was he all along who was the real villain due to his “racism” against Loki and the rest of the Jotun. It is, of course, ironic to suggest that somehow the only Black Asgardian to appear in the movie can oppress the privileged white prince. “

I... don’t know where to start with this. But the example of theorizing given in the article wasn’t suggesting Heimdall was bad or trying to explain his actions in Thor 1 by saying he is Black... and just looking at a character’s actions shouldn’t be done less or more critically because of skin tone in my opinion. Heimdall may have been trying to do what was best and protect the realm but if the audience didn’t know that Loki was up to dodgy things then the coding would be switched around because he was trying to spy and committed treason and then tried to kill Loki. People... can hold feelings towards others... regardless of skin... and suspect them... for reasons other than skin... although I do still have questions about whether Heimdall knew Loki was Jotun or not. (Even if I personally don’t think it’d make a difference to how he’d treat Loki?)

Some Loki fans have also suggested that because Jotuns have blue skin that this alone makes him a person of color (even if the audience is only allowed to see Loki in his true Jotun form for mere seconds of screentime). This, again, shows a lack of understanding when it comes to race. It doesn’t matter what skin color the Jotuns have. 

Race can differentiate between physical and/or behavioural characteristics!! Not being blue all the time doesn’t make him any less Jotun!! He’s got internalized stuff to work through and is used to being Aesir!! At least 1 parent is Jotun so even if Loki was passing as Aesir he’s probably Jotun!! (I don’t know how magic space genetics work for sure but Loki being Jotun was an entire very important jump-starting point in Thor 1!!). It’s a fantasy text and typically things like having different coloured skin indicates a different race or is sometimes if a species has multiple then is just considered a skin colour. That’s how coding works!! The Jotnar are very specifically the only race we see in the movie with a skin-tone not within the ‘normal’ human range, which alienates them to the audience from the get-go!! They’re an “other” and on the opposite side to the ‘good’ characters.

Both Loki and his birth father, Laufey (Colm Feore), are played by white men, and it is impossible for a white man to successfully play a character of color. 

The specification of men here bothers me, but yes, you don’t get ‘white’ people to play characters of colour if it can be avoided. (And it can be avoided.)

This also connects with the previous point made that people of color come from various places. There is nothing specifically about the Jotun that could be traced to any specific person of color, and even if there were, there would be no way for white men to portray them without being disrespectful.

This is where arguments about the definition of coding and how specificity/generalizations and do/don’t come in. I know I’m subjective and lean towards the more rep the better, but while I agree ‘white’ people wouldn’t be able to respectfully play a POC I don’t think that rule should have to carry over into fantasy-based fiction. I know texts reflect on reality and reality can reflect within texts, but if contextually there is racial discrimination and there are similar ideas which resonate with the audience’s own experiences I’d say it’s coded well enough to allow that.

tldr; Thor 1′s narrative revolves mainly around Thor and Loki, of which race is kinda kinda a significant theme in Loki’s part of the story. Not so much explored with less-developed side characters such as Heimdall and Hogun, even though their actors are actual people of colour. 

How Much of this is Really Well-Intentioned?

In the fantasy space viking world Heimdall and Hogun don’t face any on-screen prejudice and their appearance is not mentioned (which is nice, for sure! good to have casual rep!) but adding on to the roles they play in the narrative the explicit fantasy-racism in the movie isn't aimed at Asian/Black characters, but towards the Humans -to a lesser extent- and the Jotnar, including Loki, who only just found out he comes under that bracket.

The article mentions how fandom space toxicity often “reaches the actors who portray the characters,“ which is true, and it’s shameful that people have to justify their roles or presences are harassed for the pettiest things like skin tone/cultural background, but I don’t see coding characters as removing the spotlight from interesting characters such as those which are actually POC, rather expressing a demand for more rep, since well-written complex characters which are diverse are often absent/minor enough in the media, and therefore can get easily brushed aside in both canon and fandom spaces.

tldr; It’s obviously not a replacement for actual representation, but, if a character is marginalized and can be interpreted as coded, even if they would only be considered so within the context of the textual landscape, I don’t see why spreading awareness through exploring the coding as a possibility for the character shouldn’t be done, even if the media is being presented by people who are ‘white’ or privileged or may not fall into the categories themselves, as long as it’s done respectfully to those it could explicitly represent.

#please don’t patronize me by asking to quit while i’m ahead #it doesn't help anyone #so anyway i've summarized my opinion on the coding thing here for the many anons whose answers could be answered in this ask alone #i think i covered everything? #the article started out okay but I found it kinda :/ in places even though there were valid concerns #I do believe that in-universe context and creators of the media should be taken into account #and that if marginalized themes can be touched on by non-marginalized groups then... great? fictional texts can help people understand #i do also think that rep being presented should if not on-screen have people working on the product to support and ensure it's done well #the world is cold and harsh and cruel and i just wanted a desi Loki AU but here we are #I've got to try and summarize how I think Thor 1 presents Loki's part of the narrative well with POC-coding there because of fantasy-racism #even if the POC-coding is ignored the themes of racism are far too apparent to ignore #loki spends the entire film being a multi-dimensional character and having an entire downfall fueled by grief and a desire to be loved #I don't think attaching a label to such a character would be a negative thing... but perhaps for casual watchers it'd be a bit :/ #apparently not everyone takes into account the 1000+ years of good behavior around that 1 year of betrayal/breakdown/identity crisis/torture #MetaAnalysisForTheWin #MAFTW #ThisPostIsLongerThanMyLifeSpan #TPILTMLS #AgreeToDisagreeOrNot #ATDON #poc-coding #yes i ignored everything not about loki in the article what about it #hmmm I know people are going to disagree with me with what should and shouldn't be allowed #I know some people are okay with it but some don't like the poc-coding thing #and that's fine #completely understandable #makes me uncomfy to talk about fictional space racism in comparison to real life but I do think that lack of rep is why coding is important #for some people coding is all that they get #but also!! @ifihadmypickofwishes suggested the term racial allegory and I do believe that is also suitable here!! so I’ll try using that too #rather than poc-coding even though I still believe it applies

[worstloki]

Odin did nothing wrong he just hid the truth so loki won't feel different and will feel included and odin apologized in ragnarok i don't understand why everyone is hating on him

Is this a good time to tell you that Odin didn't apologise at any point in time? Because he only referred to Loki in his pre-death speech with “Frigga would have been proud” and “I love you my sons” and... that was literally it. There was no apology. :)

Here, I made you a little table just to clarify what your definition of doing “nothing wrong” is. Hopefully it will help you understand what Odin did other than the single deed of ‘hiding the truth so loki wouldn't feel different’.

Here’s some nice links you should check out to gain a deeper understanding and familiarise yourself with the canonical material and hopefully not make a fool of yourself in the future by saying Odin did “nothing wrong”: (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x)

#I only mentioned direct interactions which are or can be supported with sufficient canon evidence at this point #but if there is any confusion please feel free to ask questions #or correct me on anything #I don't think I missed any interactions between them? #I also took the liberty of linking some meta-analysis that could generally help you understand what Odin AND Frigga have done #because if you don't understand what Odin did I assumed you believed Frigga to also be blame-free? #The third link is especially interesting so be sure to check out that one #its a theory but since its what we actually see happening its more trustworthy than what Odin says #hopefully you wont find my own explanations too confusing but just in case I've also linked in @nikkoliferous' compendium #they word things simple enough for everyone to understand so reading up on their meta would be good too #TPILTMLS #ThisPostIsLongerThanMyLifeSpan #Have a good day :) #I wrote this at like 3am so tell me if I've badly explained something #I start off explaining things vaguely at the beginning because I hope people see the issues in saying "u were both born 2 be kings'' #I'm actually really hoping this anon wasn't being serious #All you've got to do is watch the opening of Thor 2 to see how bad Odin is #odin and loki only interact like 7 times and only 2 of those times involve an actual conversation smh

[worstloki]

Wait...ATLA AU with Waterbender!Loki, and FireNation!Asgard. Mayhaps the spirits are more relevant in this AU, so people especially blessed by non-main/non-elemental spirits (so anyone other than La, Tui, Agni, uhhh Guain and Shu are the earth kingdom ones I think, and The Autumn Lord or air) can have some manipulation of Qi, but it works differently and is very, very rare, depending on the power level of the spirit, a bending blessing can last 1 generation without renewing it through more bending blood, or like 20 generations but it skips a few. So you can have Non-bender (but actually water bender Loki), or Insert Cannon Spirt that can give him some shape shifting blessed and maybe still Water bender but figures that that out waay later Loki. This ask is a little bit of a mess, but just Water Tribe Loki (who’s stuffed full of ‘water Tribe’s are barbaric’ propaganda) Living in Fire Nation Asgard.

because Loki, like me, simply must be the center of the universe:

- Asgard is the fire nation, obviously, and Odin has 3 kids: the fire-bending lightning-bending prodigy daughter, the spare fire-bender who is good but not as good who will strive to do what his father asks because Father simply must be right (even if he’ll realize later and switch sides), the non-bender who is the dishonorable family disgrace who freaks out and makes a run from home when he realizes he can water bend and neither of his parents can and realizes he was adopted? stolen?? and is maybe the avatar and oh frick Odin’s razing the other nations trying to find the avatar and AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

- The “air nation” can be four temples/realms (svartalfheim, alfheim, vanaheim, muspelheim) which were wiped out on by the last Sozin’s comet, so the cycle moved on to the water nation (southern water tribe/jotunheim) (northern water tribe/nifleheim) and there ain’t no way he’s going there those people are barbaric monsters... aren’t they?

- he joins a Midgardian (earth-kingdom) circus road-trip that’s touring across the realms (yes, he juggles) that’s actually just the Avengers and maybe they’re all non-benders? maybe some of them are? None of them are too flashy but Loki’s trying to observe the mix of bending styles and pick up on bending techniques without making it too obvious that he’s not a non-bender

- cue Loki getting in touch with the Earth spirit and getting some neat blessing gifts with bending and now he can Earth bend too and suddenly BAM Thor attacks the circus and Loki water bends to defend his circus friends from his fire and they make eye contact and Loki is so scared/devastated at having to go up against Thor who is angry at Loki for leaving home and has been tasked to retrieve Loki - the water bending throws Thor off and in his confusion Loki freezes him to the ground and apologizes and runs for it.

- now the circus folks are all “um, dude??? the prince of the fire nation just attacked us and you didn’t tell us you could bend?? what’s up with that???” so he tells them he may or may not be Fire Nation Prince Loki and they all feel betrayed because “those colonialist jerks??” but Loki explains how he’s actually a water bender... and may also be an earth bender... and they’re all totally on-board with the avatar returning because it’s about time and the earth kingdom is on thin ice with them (ba sing se is Svartalfheim btw) and yes the reason we’re a mix of benders is because this circus is actually the white lotus the avengers and were touring the realms to low-key try finding the avatar who is supposed to be the saving grace and end of this war please

- now the circus folks are helping Loki meet all the other nation spirits (yes they venture into the terrifying Jotunheim and Nifleheim while searching for the spirit (”what do you mean you don’t know where the spirit is?? how’d you find the last ones??” “I only met one!! and it came to me!!” “well I guess we’re stuck searching everywhere in this frozen wasteland then”) and additionally he only gets to meet the spirit who grants him the bending after he accepts parts of himself and others (for example, the water bending was a result of him finally realizing that he didn’t stand a chance at the throne and it wasn’t until every shred of hope that Odin could one day be proud of him was gone that he was messing with the turtleduck pool and maybe saw the water spirit in the reflection and bent water) (the earth spirit comes to him when he accepts that there are people that will still be proud of him and he can move on with life because the circus folk like him for who he is and were excited when he successfully landed a bunch of throwing knives on targets and decided on that as an act he can do)

- The circus folk are also trying to teach Loki what little they know about bending btw since he’s admitted to copying and mixing their techniques together (he does all the bending in one style and yes it’s as chaotic for the opponent as that sounds because you can never tell what he’s going to bend) but there 100% has to be an episode where he steals the water-scroll  

- Thor chases them down and Loki can bend water now?? and he’s just trying to bring Loki back like Odin asked him too and then one time he catches up to them and Loki panics and bends Earth too and Thor realizes and stops fighting and tells Loki to just go. Thor goes back to the Fire Nation and argues with Odin and calls him out because Loki is the avatar?? he’s from the water tribe?? and he feels betrayed and does the Zuko-Ozai-Black-Sun-Speech-Without-The-Black-Sun about how neither Loki nor Thor need to prove themselves and he won’t tear this family apart any further (Frigga is in fact an absent mother here btw) and then Thor goes and chases Loki down over weeks and saves him (blue mask hero?? except... feathered-helmet hero??) from Fire Nation soldiers who got their hands on him and the circus folk are NOT happy to have him around (air bending comes to Loki when he finally forgives Thor for being an arrogant self-righteous meanie to him for years because Hela is attacking them now and this is so much worse and Thor gets his eye burnt by Hela and Bruce isn’t that good but he can water-bend and heal a bit so it’s not too bad and he takes a moment to breathe and goes for a walk and BAM air spirit) 

- they get attacked a few more times, loki tries getting over the trauma that is realizing the harm that the fire nation has done to all the other realms (and thor is learning this too by the way so when hela attacks you bet they try mentioning the damage and loss of culture the fire nation is resposible for even if she doesn’t care because she’s the heir she needs to be perfect because her two brothers weren’t and look what happened to them they were exiled and live with a blasphemous blend of peasants (and rich-kid-metal-bending-earth-nation-runaway-royalty tony (”WHAT?! SO THAT’S WHERE YOU GET THE MONEY?? I thought you were scamming people not selling cool metal toys and what are we doing that attracts all these royal snobs to us??”))

- Loki has a dream where the fire spirit tells him to keep searching and then one day Hela goes to burn Thor again and Loki just goes ahead and fire bends right back at her and hoo boy his fire isn’t blue but it sure is a lot and Thor does the “........YES!!!” thing and Hela gets stuck in a ring of fire while everyone else laughs and leaves and she can’t lose so watch as her “close friends” end up not being ty lee and mai but the valkyries (the kyoshi warriors are the Red Room Assassins in this AU and no it’s not a childhood torture house it’s just a mostly-women midgardian protection group (maybe Nat trained there so if the circus ever bumps into them she’ll know them? Jane should get to be one of them too even if she’s more into inventing... she and tony should Talk... maybe she and Pepper can beat him up and give him some Respect Women Juice the same way Sokka got his?)) 

- epic chase across the realms since Loki can bend all the elements now he just needs to figure out how the Avatar state works but until then the gaang is struggling to stay ahead of the Valkyries and get Loki trained up to take down Odin (Thor teaches Loki fire bending so that’s covered but no one else except Tony who is a metal-bending expert really learnt properly and Loki isn’t even a metal-bender)

- eventually Hela snaps from all the losses and as she becomes more unhinged Brun jumps sides and Hela kills off (or fires, if we’re staying PG) the rest of the Valkyries and now Brun is super guilty but she’s fighting to avenge them now 

- blah blah blah Sozin’s comet day and Loki goes up against Odin with the help of the Avengers (maybe Thor can take down Hela with the help of Brun and Nat?) etc. etc. 

- so anyways Loki takes Odin’s fire bending and that was the first time he’s entered the Avatar state and when everyone asks how it felt Loki goes “oh i’m not the avatar” 

- “you’re WHAT” “not it” “but you JUST went into the avatar state and everything” “yeah and kyoshi gives good head pats but I’m not it” “but-- you mastered ALL THE ELEMENTS?!” “yeah because I was gifted them by the spirits” “but you needed to renew the cycle after it was gone from the world for so long--” “nah I think the spirits just liked me and wanted me to have it” “they... just... like... you...??” “yeah” “so you actually ARE a non-bender Brother??” “oh yeah definitely I was, but not anymore :)” “so you ARE the avatar” 

- [twenty minutes later] “I just went into the avatar state and they just told me i’m not it” “...this happened while you were in the avatar state though???” *shrugs* “eh” “don’t SHRUG this off is there an actual avatar out there or no???” “maybe the real avatar was the friends we made along the way” “shouldn’t we go find them???” *cue everyone setting out on another grand quest to find the ~actual~ Avatar*

#ThisPostIsLongerThanMyLifeSpan #TPILTMLS #okay so Avatar!Loki AU but also not #just because #I hope you didn't expect a short response #I may have gone overboard #just a bit #just a small tad teensy weensy bit #now if only someone would write this #I love the idea of Loki being a water bender living in Fire Nation Asgard though #like... the drama #Loki would have a Thor-1-worthy breakdown upon finding out #he'd jump to conclusions and be right #and then when he actually meets another water bender it'll be BRUCE and he's NICE #loki's going to be getting whiplash #the entire show is going to be like Zuko ALone with the learning except Loki isn't alone

[worstloki]

Part 1: I love ur blog, I really do and I also love Loki but. I can like him and admit that he’s done some f*cked up stuff. Most of it can be excused given the circumstances but in the first Thor movie he attempted genocide? He was gonna kill all of them. It’s fiction and therefore I don’t think real life morality has to be applied, so imo it’s fine to like him. But that definitely happened. And he wasn’t mind controls then.

Loki isn't completely innocent, but I think the point people are making when saying he’s not entirely at fault is that you’ve got to take the circumstances of the events into account... not only was Loki’s emotional distress a huge factor in his skewed decision making where he decided genocide was okay where he normally wouldn't, but culturally Asgard didn't have any qualms against it. 

The cultural thing is important because we need to keep in mind that Thor also attempted genocide (and talked about it since childhood?? that's a THOUSAND years of systematic racism right there) and it wasn't the ‘taking lives’ part that he was punished for when he was exiled. They were both raised in a society that dehumanised the other race and as a result taking their lives wasn't even seen as a crime.

Asgard (or at least Odin) generally gives the life in other realms less, if any, worth. During Avengers 1 Loki was under the influence of the sceptre but still managed to prevent the loss of life and subjugation of the planet, and his actions in different circumstances also prove he doesn't share the same view on the life in other realms, which is where the whole morality argument comes in: it is extremely easy to argue that Loki’s moral compass is stronger than Thor’s because as the audience we get to see Thor’s changing mindset on the worth of life, while Loki demonstrates that it is something that already existed for him. 

Loki is still to blame for his actions, because yes, he tried to kill an entire race. 

He’s arguably responsible for New York depending on how much weight you put into being tortured and coerced by the mind stone to do it. The reason morality even comes into the entire thing is because Loki demonstrates that he knows what is right and wrong but keeps finding himself in situations where he gets pushed into making the worse decision. 

tldr: he was emotionally unstable in the first thor movie and not in the best mental position to make decisions even if his actions were his own, and doubling that over with Asgard’s messed up value of the worth of other people’s lives (its racism) it wasn't culturally inappropriate for Loki to commit genocide.

The fact that the circumstances around his actions are always tediously open to interpretation leaves so many theories possible, and from what we’ve seen of Loki at the beginning of Thor 1 and after Avengers 1 there’s way more evidence leaning towards his innocence, or at least sincere regret and guilt for his actions, because his morality is fine... up until a few decisions made under duress and psychological pressure

#sorry for the long reply #but basically: Asgard sux #as far as I can tell Asgard doesn't have anything against genocide and doesn't value lives of other species anyways #Loki actually shows more consideration for the worth of other species than basically every other character #except for that time he was having a crisis on the rainbow bridge #Loki's done some messed up stuff but its not a case of 'he COULD'VE done worse' its that he actively prevents worse (with that 1 exception) #the only reason Asgard saw anything he did worth punishing was because Odin was mad about it #ThisPostIsLongerThanMyLifeSpan #TPILTMLS

[worstloki]

Part 3

Fury: I cannot believe the Avengers No. 1 unattainable criminal right now is a seventeen-year-old twink Clint: I can’t believe you’re calling Loki a twink Tony: I can’t believe he's been the legal godparent of kids his own age for months and I didn't realise Steve: You didn’t get him removed? I thought you made Rhodey their legal godparents instead?? Tony: nah I removed Thor Natasha: ?? why would anyone do that ?? Fury, having a breakdown: we nearly lost New York and the entire world to a 16-year-old twink with daddy issues Clint: yoU just did it aGAIN- Tony, the only actual Avenger who knows Loki isn’t actually evil™: heY! Daddy issues are a serious thing! Don’t make fun of the guy for having a crisis and finding out his life was a lie and he’d faced over a millennium of abusive environment for nothing!  Avengers: are you… defending Loki… the megalomaniac WAR CRIMINAL who turned every SHIELD facility into ice cream earlier today…? Tony, hands up in surrender: I’m saying maybe we shouldn’t be so quick to judge the guy. I wouldn't be able to guess what but maybe he had an ulterior reason for the New York fiasco? His normal stuff is usually harmless.  Avengers: ... Tony: What? It could’ve been much worse. Strange, rolling his eyes: Yes, at least it wasn’t Stark Raving Hazelnuts Loki, who has been standing at the back listening to the entire conversation: That flavour is way too chalky to suit SHIELD anyways [everyone turns to Loki with their weapons ready, except Tony of course] Loki, raising his hands in surrender: what? A Hunka-Hulka Burning Fudge is way better, and its green, and for some reason they didn’t have a Loki flavour so that was the next best option-

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Loki: hey Morgan what would you say if i offered you an officially evil part-time job with decent pay and extremely good evil workplace benefits? Morgan: do you offer evil dental? Loki: of course?? we also have A-Grade coffee 24/7 because top class extremely good evil deserves only the best Morgan: Excellent! I look forward to working with your evil team and being a part of your nefarious schemes and plots in future Loki: Thank you. Tomorrow we replace all Tony's vehicles with incredibly realistic wax models. Morgan: ...including the jets? Loki, scoffing: what kind of amateur villains would we be if we left his jets, boats, bikes and single vintage helicopter untouched Tony: its 4am can you maybe not have this conversation right next to me in my own workshop?!

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Tony: I THOUGHT YOU SAID YOU WOULD REPLACE THEM WITH WAX MODELS Morgan: What kind of low-grade predictable villainous evil doers would we be if we did what we said we would Tony: oh $#!^ now you're speaking like him too Loki, cutting his shoulder to reveal cake: Just so you know, it wasn’t JUST the vehicles ;)

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Peter: *following loki around with a notepad* Loki: Terribly sorry if you mind but he's MY intern now. Tony: You don’t think there’s anything wrong with what you’re doing, do you? Loki: I don’t think anything I’ve ever done is wrong Peter:  *avidly taking notes and nodding along*

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T’challa: I cant believe you filed an application for ‘time off’ Shuri: I NEED at least 3 hours a week reserved specifically for training if I want to keep my part-time job T’challa: you don’t NEED a job! You make up 90% of Wakanda’s research and development departments! Your technology work IS a job! Shuri: yeah well my ACTUAL job is fun and has proper work benefits and I simply must empty the time blocks I specified for it! You wouldn’t stop me from meeting with Peter and Morgan would you? They ARE, legally and spiritually speaking, my siblings, brother :) T’challa: what job could you have that would need you reminding me that a mischief deity adopted you before telling me what the job actually is Shuri: The official position is called Secretary of Evil but that’s only for the probationary 2 week period and I’m allowed to request a name change if I think of anything better T’challa: T’challa: you are working as a SECRETARY?! Shuri: The job pays well, Brother, T'challa:  T'challa: mother will be so disappointed

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Scott: I can’t believe you did that Maggie: I didn’t know he was a supervillain! OBVIOUSLY! Scott: how would you noT KNOW! He wears nothing buT LEATHER and BELTS and GREEN BOOTS AND- Maggie: I needed someone to watch her and she showed up in pink sweatpants and a black tank top and was charging a decent rate Scott: Scott: are you sure their name was loki

---

Clint: you told me it was a ‘family gathering’! Tony: yeah, it is, and the avengers are family Clint, pointing at Loki: so what’s the twink doing here and why are MY kids along with every other person here who is under drinking age clinging to him like a frickin’ koala bear Tony: morgan wanted to get her ‘the floor is lava’ badge and loki was the only one immune to the lava so they jumped him - and he enjoyed walking around covered in them way more than he should have -  and also loki is legally peter and morgan and harley and shuri’s godparent so he’s allowed to be here on more of a basis than anyone else here at this point Clint: There was LAVA near MY KIDS?! Tony: no of course not – it was FAKE lava that just looked and functioned like real lava Clint: im taking them all home Tony: good luck convincing them not to want another playdate Clint: this isn’t a joke Tony Tony: I’m serious. Good luck. The kids love him, and you’ll need all the luck you can get if you want them to ever root for the side of good instead of wherever-loki-is-at instead. 

---

Pepper: *watching the news* Pepper: oh hey the Avengers are on Peter, running into the room: woW NICE Pepper: wtf why is Hulk wearing giant boxing gloves Peter: Language! Pepper: is Steve's shield padded?! Peter: i don’t remember that being normal Pepper: did most of the Avengers just ditch Steve? Why’re they leaving Peter: I guess the danger must be over? Pepper: WHAT is going ON out there today Peter: I think Loki had planned an attack today so maybe he did it as a joke Pepper: oh they're facing Loki yeah okay that explains it Peter: Loki always does the funniest things of course he baby-proofed all the Avenger's gear! Classic Loki! :D

-meanwhile-

Captain America, tears streaming down his face: pl,,ease, loki,, stop,t his, I cant hit ,,a child Loki: Look at you, the American icon, unable to save all these innocent people from having their skin turn into primary colours, all because you are TOO AFRAID to fight me! Captain America: I’m a national icon, not a good soldier but a good man, I will do whatever it takes to keep innocents safe, but I can NOT beat up someone who isn’t even legal enough to vote Loki: I was around causing chaos before this ‘voting’ was even invented! And I’ll NEVER legally vote even if I could!! mwahahAHAHA- Falcon, to Bucky in the background: How did we not realise he was a teen, all his comebacks are ‘no u’ and ‘uno reverse card’ and ‘look over there!’ Bucky, to Falcon: I don’t know but I really really want to know where he gets his outfits from Falcon: if it means I’ll be seeing you geared up in leather again then I want to know where he gets his outfits from too ;‘) Thor: I think my brother makes his own outfits Loki, still tormenting Captain America: *SISTER Thor: ah, my bad Captain America, crying x2: wait does this mean I’ve been lobbing my shield at not just a child, but I’ve been misgendering them while doing it?! Loki: only occasionally and I don’t blame you that was on me for monologuing too long, really— Captain America, taking off the helmet: nope I’m done Loki: what are you doing Steve, handing Sam the shield: It’s yours. Enjoy. Sam: woah woah woah what’re you doing you cant retire just like that  Steve, unzipping his suit to reveal American flag boxers: watch me Bucky to Sam: hello new best friend Sam, realising that Cap and Bucky are a duo: oh no no no STEVE is your best friend Bucky: he hasn’t been my ‘best friend’ since I saw him with the American flag splayed over his butt Loki, holding his hand out for Sam to shake: Hello there new Captain America its nice to meet you formally, my name is Loki and yes I’m a child but I’m actually 1075 but that is irrelevant if I’m causing trouble and looking for a fight, I’m also genderfluid so yes sometimes my pronouns will be different but I’ll be sure to inform you if it happens Sam: what are you doing Loki: I’m… formally introducing myself Sam: Sam: why?? Loki, blinking to hide that he’s getting teary eyed: well, the last national icon I didn’t do this with ditched me because I didn’t Bucky, a trained assassin, who isn’t a fool: *hugs loki* that wasn’t your fault steve just likes to carry the stupid with him Loki: thanks Bucky: is this a bad time to ask where you get your clothes from…? Loki: I make them Bucky: oh. Well $#!^. Loki, sniffing: if you join the dark side I’ll make you some too Bucky, immediately: done. Sam: JAmES Bucky deadpan: Yes, Samuel, what is it that troubles you, my new arch nemesis? 

---

Sam: HE TOOK BUCKY Natasha: What do you mean ‘he took bucky’ he’s standing right next to you Sam: He’s “infiltrating the enemy” Natasha: *lifts an eyebrow and looks to Bucky* Bucky: It’s true. My loyalties lie elsewhere now. Natasha: ??? Bucky: note to self – unexpected outcomes confuse the black widow. Natasha: how did this happen?? Sam: he SOLD himself out to the ENEMY Natasha: well when you say it like THAT ;) — Bucky: I think friendship is a decent price to pay for decent clothing Natasha: ??? Sam: oh also I’m Captain America now because Steve broke down and quit Natasha: ?!?!?!

---

Peter, entering the room and high-fiving Loki: I heard you got Mr. Bucky to switch teams! Loki: well, my fashion skills ARE legendary Tony, under his breath: he’s not even trying and he’s gotten every kid and the freaking winter soldier on his side and I am so so grateful he isn’t actually TRYING to make everyone go bad

---

Bucky: we’ve been over this Steve, Loki is young but he’s also over a thousand years old Steve: I was beating up a KID, Bucky, a kid who was SMALLER and WEAKER than everyone else where he lived but wouldn’t EVER turn down a FIGHT for what he BELIEVES IN and he was probably BULLIED and I wanted the guy DEAD, Bucky– Bucky: don’t forget the genderfluidity thing Steve: he said it wasn’t my fault but I should’ve asked Thor after he referred to Loki as ‘she’ instead of thinking he’d made a mistake and I just can’t – he isn’t even old enough to DRIVE or VOTE or DRINK or BUY A KNIFE or -- Bucky, holding Steve and patting his back: hey now, there, there, it’ll be okay, Bucky: *gives Loki a thumbs up as he sits on the couch with popcorn and watches Steve be miserable*

---

Loki: We need to get through this locked door. Tony, quick, give me your card! Tony, handing the card over: Take it! Loki, pocketing it: Thanks! Morgan, fire at the door Morgan: *pulls out an iron man gauntlet painted green and gold* Tony: hOW COULD you deface YOUR BIRTHDAY PRESENT with GREEN Morgan: MINE is still being used as a paperweight. This is one of YOUR gauntlets.   Tony, under his breath: maybe it’s not too late to burn the physical evidence and hack Loki’s name off the digital copies of the adoption forms Loki, whispering back: oh its definitely too late. I’m already on your christmas card and everything.

#LokiAdoptsAU #where all the kids can enjoy loki tormenting the world because its funny and no one actually ends up seriously injured ever #loki is about mischief and chaos not death and destruction #the avengers don't know why the kids are attached #tony knows that loki isn't evil but so far Shuri and Peter and MJ and Ned and Cassie are the only ones who know about the torture #because everyone else is an *d*ot #watch as loki cajoles the avengers to his side 1-by-1 with the promise of good coffee decent prankster material and custom leather outfits #ThisPostIsLongerThanMyLifeSpan #TPILTMLS

[worstloki]

thor 3 rewrite where:

- when Thor gets to Asgard Loki drops the illusion because Thor obviously sees through the illusion for once and is trying to go in for a hug. Thor laughs about the play and asks if Loki was even trying to hide the past 2 years before asking how and why he didn't tell him he was alive and then he asks where Odin is and Loki says he’s safe on earth and they go. no threatening with the hammer because what even was that--

- Loki doesn't step out of Strange’s circle because he’s curious about it

- The first thing Thor does when he gets to Bleeker street is demand Loki back. Loki nabs a few of the sanctum’s books while Strange talks to Thor. “You cant just take those” “why not” “well for starters you attacked New York 3 years ago” “I sincerely apologise for that, as I was truly not acting as myself” “...ooookay” “I can take the books now, right?”. Strange sighs and gives up because its not like he can take them out of a pocket dimension. but loki promises to return them.

- thor and loki find odin in the alleyway and odin actually apologises to loki (think: that deleted alley scene)

- their secret older sister? yeah that's Angela and the portal she comes out of is just a rift to the 10th realm which odin sealed her away in

- Angela was odin’s firstborn and he didn't want any husband of hers to take the throne so he would dump her in the 10th realm to “train” with the violent Angels so she wouldn't get the chance to develop relationships with people but especially with any men who might inherit asgard if she married before odin produced a male heir.

- Angela didn't appreciate being locked away in a vault another realm until Odin had use of her and so she tried to run away with the love of her life Sera, a Valkyrie.

- when Odin sent the Valkyrie to retrieve her she refused to give up her freedom to be the weapon of war she was raised to be and killed them. Sera jumping in front of one of her blades (and saving Valkyrie’s/Brunhild’s life) was her trying to prevent Angela from killing them because she knew Angela would live to regret killing the only group of friends she had and because the Valkyrie were both her and Angela's shield sisters, and she would be continuing the violence she was seeking to escape. 

- When Angela’s blade struck her love she fell to her knees and surrendered to Odin who then dumped her heartbroken in the 10th dimension before using the odinforce to seal that realm off from all the others. (he didn't seal it permanently in case he ever had need of her again, because he thought she’d just cool off eventually, like the fool he is)

- a thousand and something years later the Angels want revenge from Odin/Asgard for blocking off their realm and Angela blames Odin for Sera’s death and wants to take back everything that’s his - by claiming the realms for herself rather than leaving them with the unworthiest and worst person; Odin. (If the Asgardians and their army hadn't opposed her it would’ve been enough for her. But they did. And Angela is extremely angry and still grieving Sera and wants to tear everything Odin has down because she blames him for taking everything she had from her.)

- Loki asks if the reason Valkyrie doesn't want to help the Revengers is because of the 10th realm (because when Loki goes to talk to Thor in the circle-prison they put the idea of the Revengers together--). She is suspicious and attacks and asks what he knows about the 10th realm and they exchange information, but its mostly Loki giving her information and trying to recruit her. Instead of knocking him out she gets a blade to his neck and he smiles (#callbacktothor2 #lokiwouldLOVEtolosetoavalkyrie). She gets up and as she walks away he says the least she could do is tell how they took Angela down the last time. Valkyrie flashbacks and we get those iconic shots of the fight along with one where Angela falls to her knees in grief. “We didn't.”.

- Valkyrie finds Thor and Bruce (and Thor respects his decision not to go green and Hulk out just for the record. he still invites him along and says he’ll use the Bifrost to drop Bruce off on earth after he defeats/speaks to his sister.) and takes them to her room but not because she’s joining their team just because its a good thing to do. They reach her room and Loki is just casually hanging out there. because loki has been on the planet for 2 weeks and deserves at least one friend, marvel

- Heimdall recounts the tale of Angela’s past to the hidden Asgardians and that's how the audience finds out about her past and how she was covered up. 

- Valkyrie is convinced to join them because Thor insists that even if their chances of winning are near zero they’re got to try because that's the honourable thing to do. Loki makes a joke about how ‘The Mighty Thor, Lord of Thunder’ just wants to avenge Odin, because it wouldn't be fair to forget those who have died and pretend the issue doesn't exist and Valkyrie sighs and says “I guess the name fits, you’re getting revenge, he’s getting revenge, I might as well too” and that's why she joins - to avenge, and to honour those who died (it mirrors the same reason Angela’s fighting)

- After that, to lighten the mood: ”one could even say you’re getting... ra-avenge? eh, Mighty Thor? Valiant Valkyrie? Not you Bruce. I told you ‘Revengers’ was the right name” “...” “perhaps now isn't the time for wordplay” “brother that is still an atrocious pun and you should never be allowed to name anything ever again” “hey that's not fair I name things perfectly fine” “sleipnir” “I’m still proud of that one” “throg” “that one was mother’s idea” “laeveteinn” “no. no. no-” *thor tells the story about that time they were 8 and loki named a knife ‘damage twig’) 

- loki doesn't do some flimsy betrayal, but when everyone is boarding the ship he stays behind, saying “I guess Sakaar suits me”. He then gets the revolution going and helps overthrow the government.

- the chase scene still happens, and the reason they can do interrealm travel is because with the 10th realm’s barrier weak all the realm barriers are weaker making jumping around through random portals work (that's why they landed on sakaar when thrown out of the Bifrost instead of being stranded in space). We’re not applying earth science logic to how magic tornado wormholes on a trash planet work thank you. 

- Thor vs Angela and naturally Thor is losing when Loki shows up and then Thor unlocks his lightning powers 

- Loki tries to reason with Angela at some point, using actual information he’s put together on her, and arguing that acting violently to enforce peace is what she’s against AND what she’s doing.

- Angela freezes upon seeing Valkyrie and avoids her the entire fight. Valkyrie is irritated by the fact that she’s clearly not hurting her on purpose. But on the upside its a one-sided fight when its Angela vs Valkyrie so Valkyrie gets some hits in, even if its only because Angela is letting her.

- Angela flees and leaves them fighting the Angels at some point, going into the weapons vault and placing Surtur's crown onto the eternal flame. If she’s going down she’s taking whatever is left of Odin with her.

- when she gets back to the bridge to continue fighting Valkyrie pins her to the ground (benefits of not having the opponent try and hurt you) while Thor and Loki combine their magical strength to put Angela in the 10th realm and lock her there. Loki apologises to Angela as this is done. he knows what its like to feel like a relic/weapon being used but cant let her destroy everything and kill even more people. 

- When that's done Thor turns to see Surtur huge and burning Asgard. 

- Thor understands that while he can choose to fight Surtur off and get everyone re-established on asgard that they would have to rebuild and that would take time so they leave instead. In time they will return, and when Surtur’s destiny of burning asgard to the ground is over they’ll try and resettle but for now the planet’s surface is burnt away. He puts the people over the place. 

- Back on the ship Thor is officially getting the mantle of king by being asked the coronation questions. Instead of the usual “I swear” he looks at his brother and says “only if i have my brother by my side” and Loki and Thor actually get to hug and maybe there are even tears. Then Loki and Thor get to co-rule for the 10 minutes they have before thanos shows up

#I don't even think it'd be called Thor:Ragnarok since it... isn't...? #sure loki destroyed asgard and hela was there but the movie messed up comic and myth versions of ragnarok #in THIS version Hela is still around but she's the ruler of Helheim and the dead obviously #Odin already had a secret older firstborn daughter that the MCU could've used and I don't know why they didnt #Angela was... right there?? #I guess I just didn't like how Hela as a character was butchered #she was given... no motive...? no reason to attack...? #odin suddenly has a 3rd child no one remembers that was locked away in a mysterious space prison...??? #in the comics thor and loki combine their strength to access the 10th realm so in THIS version they use their strength to do that too #by locking her back there but also showing that they didn't want to it leaves the character's future role open-ended #like if they had said Odin had kept Hela in Helheim at least it would make sense if in the future they went there to visit and she was there #now we have no idea is Helheim is even a thing in the MCU and whether Hela is there of just Death or what #ThisPostIsLongerThanMyLifeSpan #TPILTMLS #aldrif was right there and someone decided that hela should be their secret older sister smh #OH! perhaps Loki's death in infinity war was just him escaping to acquire help from the Angels #he would turn up there as a woman and ask what it'll take for their help #now that Angela killed Odin and destroyed Asgard (loki assures her its ruin) she isn't thinking unclearly in angry #Loki could offer her Sera in return for any assistance they give!! he could go to Hela and make a deal where Sera is brought back to life #we don't even need to see the deal being made #the Angels could've just showed up whenever and when Thor asks Angela could just say that Loki asked them for help #Loki didn't even have to show up in the final fight for that to work

[worstloki]

the films robbed us of some golden comic moments

#the real reason thor became depressed was that he lost half his people AND the ceremonial eyepatch of sorrow #he couldn't even show the dead his sadness by donning the sad patch :( #the 1990s comics sure do have some gems don't they #its canon that odin has an eyepatch for when he's sad #cut out of context that one panel looks like spidey is calling thanos a bimbo #I've got to wonder where this line was in Infinity War #it should've been there even if Tony or Peter had to say it #ThisPostIsLongerThanMyLifeSpan #TPILTMLS

[worstloki]

instead of actually showing people moving on from their mistakes and choosing to follow a more heroic path the MCU gives heroes who have already been through their “worst” behaviour before they’re even introduced on-screen and as a result they’re framed as heroes from the beginning. 

Its hero-framing and there is nothing wrong with that but its why marvel is unable to present an actual complete character redemption arc where people change for the better or worse: they forget there are things between good and evil, and that a change from ‘evil’ to ‘good’ is possible without having someone go from ‘villain’ to ‘hero’ to do it.

examples of hero-framing are: 

- tony as the merchant of death is where tony’s journey to becoming a hero begins. he isn't shown as the person carelessly approving weapon deals or flippantly signing off weapons of mass destruction after his transportation is attacked. the only glimpse into his earlier actions which he strives to make up for with good deeds is assuming comments such as “I'd be out of a job with peace” and his proud display of the Jericho and glimpses at previous one-night stands are regular behaviour, of which none are immediately morally ‘bad’ on his part with all things considered. As the audience we aren't shown how low of a person Tony started off as, making him easily forgivable because from what we’ve seen his few acts of on-screen bad were minor acts and that outweighs the good we see him do once he gets the suit functioning.

- black widow’s dripping ledger is brought up multiple times as she tries to make up for her past as an assassin. meanwhile, the closest glimpse into any of what she did was loki listing things. there were no details, only that she did bad things and she feels guilty and is trying to make up for it. she is introduced as ‘good’ with her ‘bad’ past self being referred to as a different person, since the audience has not actually seen proof of her actions. 

- thor is the closest thing to an exception to the hero-framing as he is introduced as brash and arrogant and it is shown in action. Even if only due to loki, thor’s flaws and unsuitability to rule are brought up and his journey to heroism begins after the audience has glimpsed him as ‘bad’, which means thor’s character development would need to be more comprehensive to further him into the role of ‘good’ as well as ‘hero’ after being shown happily committing genocide but then refusing to stand and watch it occur later in his debut film. His character development regarding his ‘bad’ traits never occurs on-screen, and he is regarded as a hero regardless of any actual change.

- Gamora is introduced as the most dangerous woman in the galaxy and working under thanos since childhood it is unquestionable that she has killed/had no regard for innocents. rocket groot and peter start off as criminals too, but in showcasing them together their past selves are easily disregarded for their new team dynamic and action sequences, where they’ve all committed crimes and are okay not mentioning them and instead focusing on the stopping the bad guy part. With the past Gamora being brought to the future her previous establishment as a hero influences the audience’s views on her.

Prime examples of the reverse where characters are initially framed as villains are Loki and Ava, with Wanda and Nebula being framed as ‘good’ but acting evil conditionally:

- Loki scenes which humanised the character when he was being introduced to the audience were intentionally removed to establish his change in Thor 1 as going from ‘slightly evil’ to ‘full-tilt evil’ as a natural reaction even before he had been proven to have done anything bad. marvel was unable to show loki ‘redeeming’ himself after New York and sought to kill him off doing a good act and apologising for his previous bad actions instead of actually becoming a ‘good’. After that he is withheld from becoming labelled as a ‘good’ person because of his past actions which keep being brought up especially in Ragnarok. Despite being implied a victim he is framed as the villain throughout his appearances and is made to ‘redeem‘ himself, dying before he gets to exercise actions other than his own sacrifice as an actual ‘hero’.

- Ava was trained as a weapon, and even when no longer under contract sees no problem with killing others to achieve her goal and fix herself. Even though she was willingly ‘bad’ her actions were seen as negligible once she achieved her goal and the problem was solved, with her switching to a ‘good’ individual without any moral changes. She is presented as a victim to the problem.

- Wanda, although introduced as a villain who messed with the heroes minds (cruelly) and unleashed the hulk with knowledge of what he would do this close to civilians (intentionally causing the unnecessary deaths of innocents??), regardless is accepted as a hero after switching allegiances after realising she would be dying along with the rest of the planet if she did not switch sides. She was introduced as a victim/prisoner despite consenting to the experimentation with the gem and results in an arc similar to loki’s in thor 1 where she (and Pietro) become circumstantially evil due to the events around them, except instead of dying and returning on the villain side she notices her mistake and puts aside hate to join the good side again. her journey, although appearing to take her from bad to good, actually starts with her as a good person who became bad but simply became good again.

- Nebula is introduced as being overshadowed by Gamora who is favoured. she is presented as a victim, even if her hostile reactions are witnessed more directly by the audience, and she is shown as not ‘bad’, simply trying to be ‘good’ where the only example to follow is the favoured Gamora. While her change from ‘bad’ to ‘good hero’ is partially shown, the changes in her morality are naturally presented, implying the changes happened off-screen, if not a one-time thing.

tldr; marvel’s character arcs are incomplete and basically all of them lack portions of the beginning or end, leaving gaps in the development of the characters. all the redeemable characters are explained as already being ‘good’, and are victims in their own rights, even if it isn't addressed. They have yet to present someone who actually changes from ‘evil’, although Loki is the closest they have come, even if he’s only a villain because he believes himself to be.

#no reasons for the moral changes or the sudden gained value of life #except for tony i guess #but he wasn't shown actually committing bad actions #he was shown suffering for those actions and then changing #loki was framed as a villain despite being a victim but marvel never got around to addressing that #everyone else either pulled a 180 or actually secretly had morals and the ability to love being hidden deep down #the closest thing to an actual on-screen bad person becoming good was Ava #Loki was bad but if the mind stone was involved it wasn't his fault #he still took the blame and worked on building himself back up so he gets second place for successful arcs with tony in first place i guess #no one kill me for attempting to comment on marvel's presentation of people who are 'bad' and 'good' i don't normally write stuff like this #mostly because articulation is only my forte if i get to be dramatic about it #nebula and wanda aren't framed as villains when they're introduced but loki and ava are ( with Ava not getting the WHY explained till later) #but since Ava isn't shown after she's healed we don't know enough to comment on her goodness #MetaAnalysisForTheWin #MAFTW #TPILTMLSP #ThisPostIsLongerThanMyLifeSpan

[worstloki]

Tag List - 

#Language! #L! = swearing

#TheBadKindOfDeath #TBKOD = graphic character death, graphic mentions of suicide

#NotSafeForWitches #NSFW= sexual-ish inappropriate-ish content

#AgreeToDisagreeOrNot #ATDON= fandom discourse

#ThisPostIsLongerThanMyLifeSpan #TPILTMLS = long post

#TriggerWarningAndTheSexualKind #TWATSK = more than brief mention of sensitive sexual content such as rape, abuse and assault

#MetaAnalysisForTheWin #MAFTW = analysis

#TagGame #TG = I was tagged and the post may not be Loki-related

#TheWorstLokiWritesTheWorst #TWLWTW = ficlet and related post and/or anything based off a post

#PeopleHavePhobiasAndThatIsFine #PHPATIF = less common specific triggers (currently including: realistic snakes, spiders, lots of blood,)

#FoodTalk #FT = food is a major topic in this post, or repeated mention of medicine

The Spirit Library - (AO3 Bookmarks)

Forbidden Texts - (my fics)

#LINK LIST #(not the zelda kind) #and yes please feel free to tell me if there are any other tags I should add #always happy to add tags for trigger warnings and similar