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hainethehero · 3 months

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Steve Rogers Trauma: A TED TALK

Why is it that any kind of commentary/analysis on Steve Roger's trauma has to be met with comparisons to Bucky or Tony's trauma? Or most of the fanfics I read completely gloss over Steve's trauma?

Some of y'all legit do not care or are blind to Steve Roger's trauma throughout the Captain America & Avengers films and it shows. And this isn't hate to any fanfic writers but rather an observation of most stucky and stony fanfics which seem to minimize Steve's character & trauma in favour of highlighting their fave's. And of course it's fine that people want to write about Bucky or Tony or even Nat's trauma, but MOST TIMES* I've read these fics and they all have an intentional disregard for Steve's traumas.

And this speaks to the wider discourse around Tony, Bucky & Steve- the three characters most written about in mcu fanfics.

Because why is it that anytime I bring up Steve's PTSD or his illnesses or the hell he would've gone through pre-serum, people always HAVE to add in their 2cents about, "well yeah & Bucky went through worse." Like.???? No, I'm not talking about him.

I absolutely love Bucky and he's one of my favourite characters in both the comics and the MCU but, respectfully, this ain't about him.

I'm talking about Steve and his life. The crap he would've had to deal with both in public and at home. Especially the horrors both he and Sarah would've gone through because of Joseph Rogers who was a terrible person and an alcoholic who beat up on his wife and sickly kid.

And even post-serum when he's completely healthy and living in the future now, I'm still seeing popular narratives about "Yeah he's alive now & hasn't gone through half of what Bucky's endured over the past 70yrs." OR "He's had it easy compared to Bucky who was being tortured by HYDRA."

Um, no one's saying Bucky's treatment under HYDRA was a good thing??? But we're talking about Steve here, not Bucky?

And how he was literally frozen in a state of purgatory & how traumatic it would feel to be ripped out of it and then basically thrown to the new world on your ass without any kind of therapy or help. Most people make it seem like Steve was in a Sleeping Beauty kind of sleep and then woke up completely fine. And I will admit the MCU has been the main culprit of that narrative because they deleted so many scenes that humanized Steve Rogers, that now the gen pop thinks:

he's perfectly fine

has zero trauma

should complain about nothing

hasn't had it hard like Bucky or Tony

is a lesser hero because of all of the above

I recently had a convo with a friend & we were talking abt the scene in Avengers 1 when they were all at each other's throats. And they said that Tony was right about Steve being a laboratory experiment & everything special about him came out of a bottle. And I'm like... yeah nah, that's the lazy ass writing that Whedon perpetuated that now makes Steve one of the most misunderstood heroes & people in the MCU. Because he was special before the serum because of his consideration of others. He was special because not only did he hate bullies, but he also went out of his way to protect those that couldn't protect themselves KNOWING what that confrontation might cost him as a chronically sick person. Tony needed a whole ass arc about literally witnessing & living first hand what his weapons were doing to innocents like Yinsen & his people, to change his ways. Steve didn't have, nor did he need any of that to make him special. (AND BEFORE THE TONY STANS COME FOR ME, I LOVE TONY, HE'S LITERALLY ONE OF MY FAVES IN THE MARVEL COMICS & MCU) But this hatred for Steve is ridiculous.

And once again, it's the MCUs fault because they made Tony the ultimate hero of the Avengers at the expense of Steve Rogers' character. Him being able to prove he was "worthy" all along by lifting Thor's hammer was a cheap payoff in the end, much like the entirety of Endgame was. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

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valkyrieandstrangeridingaragorn · 5 months

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It's absolutely wild how such a fantastic character like Wanda can be her amazing self for 6 whole years only for an absolute rookie to show up and destroy all previous work done for her in just two freaking hours.

But Marvel has done that a few times. They had Steve at his peak in TWS then CW and EG happened. Loki was awesome in TDW but then Ragnarok and his series ruined him completely. WandaVision treated Wanda and her story beautifully but then MoM released and everything they had achieved in her series went down the drain. And for what?

Steve was always going to leave post-EG so why ruin his arc? Loki could have become the guy who keeps an eye on the multiverse (or whatever it is that he's doing now) without having his character thrown under the bus. And Wanda had no need to be in MoM since that was supposed to be Stephen's movie, but if she absolutely had to be part of the story, why turn her into a caricature?

What of MoM changes if Wanda keeps her wonderful characterization from the series? Nothing! She's still corrupted by the Darkhold, her powers are still upped to 11 and she can be a little lost while at the same time staying a complex and fantastic character. There was no need to do what they did.

#wanda maximoff #pro wanda maximoff #anti michael waldron #mcu salt

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bedlamsbard · 11 months

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Reread the Hydra Cap AU and I really enjoyed it once more; it fucks supremely. I know that you are not a huge Tony Stark fan, and that’s legit, and if he wasn’t a major player in that hypothetical fic, it would make sense, BUT. I do really enjoy what you’ve set up for him in the concept writing. What’s he got going for him without his Vast Fortune, yknow? Obviously, the trope of the genius inventor working his way up from nothing is problematic and a bit silly, but. Well-executed it’s fun, yknow

Thank you! I really do think about this one daily, though there are a couple of reasons it hasn't gone beyond concept writing. Chief among which is that it doesn't have a plot, just set-up, and part of that set-up involves running out all the events of Phase 1. (The sticking point has actually been Thor, since so many of the events of that movie are driven by factors that wouldn't be affected by the HYDRA-SHIELD changeup, but have pretty drastic consequences further down the line; if Loki and the Chitauri are still invading in this AU, it completely changes the dynamics and plot of the story. If they're not, then SHIELDRA's response back in Thor has to explain why not.) (And the way my brain works I can't just ignore it because it's more convenient.)

Tony was always intended to be a main character in the story (or maybe a secondary character -- Yonder level of involvement, anyway, not Horizon level), since part of the conceit was setting up the Avengers in secret. The AU's divergence point is back in IM1, during the Tony-Obadiah fight at the end of the film, with Tony and Pepper believed killed when the building collapsed. (Possibly Obadiah did not get fried by the arc reactor overloading? Specifics aren't important.) SHIELD -- which was still run by Fury at this point -- pulled Tony and Pepper out of the rubble, but Obadiah had already rushed a funeral and completed his takeover of the company. While Tony and Pepper were recovering, Obadiah sold the prototype of his version of the suits -- the Chessmen suits -- to Alexander Pierce (a.k.a. to Hydra), which tipped Fury off and started him digging, tipping Pierce off and resulting in an attempted assassination and a successful hostile takeover of SHIELD. Basically the SHIELD on SHIELD violence from CATWS but the bad guys won.

Tony was out of the fight the whole time, since he was still recovering from having a building dropped on him, but was at Fury's secret base when he and the SHIELD loyalists limped back after the end of that fight. (The named ones are Clint Barton, Maria Hill, and Phil Coulson, but it was a pretty significant number of survivors; other loyalists, including Natasha and Sharon Carter, remained undercover at SHIELD/HYDRA.) Since then Tony's been with realSHIELD (and has upgraded the Iron Man suit); at some point he was able to get in touch with Rhodey, who's still with the USAF and is still technically the liaison to Stark/Stane Industries, now doing the spy thing. Tony built him the War Machine suit but I don't think he's had a chance to wear it yet. I don't know exactly what he would be doing in this hypothetical story, but he would be in it, especially for a rematch with Iron Monger and the Chessmen suits. He's with realSHIELD, so he's not exactly working himself up from nothing in this scenario. It would still be a Steve and Natasha focused story, but he's there.

As for whether or not I'm a Tony fan -- I actually am; he is not my favorite character in the MCU, but he is a character I do really like. It is just not super obvious in my writing because most of my fic has set been set post-CACW and because I mostly write with a Steve and Natasha focus, Tony does not come out well from their POVs at this point in time. I know that the fandom is really polarized on the team Iron Man vs. team Cap issue; it is one of the few times when I have been stopped IRL by a stranger over Marvel. (It is the one time I've seen Marvel fen act like SW fen in terms of taking sides in a fight I wasn't aware I was having.) Within the CACW to Endgame timeline there's not really any way to write any of the characters involved without having it come off as taking sides and that ends up reflecting back as "the author does not like either Steve or Tony," which is not true; I write the characters like I see them in the films and during this timeline they are portrayed by the PTB as being EXTREMELY polarized towards each other. I'm not a hack; if I'm writing him at a different point in time, I'm not going to write him the same way I do during the IW timeline. If/when I go back to Reaches he'll be a viewpoint character there and that'll be Avengers!Tony.

#typeoneninja #bedlam replies #ws steve au concept tag

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delulu-with-wandanat · 5 months

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When I see people from all sorts of backgrounds: incels, feminists,... yell from the top of their lungs about how Natasha Romanoff is sexualized & an eye candy. I assume that must be a very prominent part of her characterisation but then when I revisit her whole screentime, I can only think of : the suit not it's tightness all superhero suits are tight but the below average lower zip, don't come at me but didn't Wanda's suits in EG, IW,CW & lowkey AOU kinda accentuate her chest not to mention every Spiderman's suit accentuating his dick, I didn't see anyone reducing their characterisation to how they were physically represented. There are also 2 ass shots in IR2 &CA:TWS done for "surprise" effet which shares with her Steve in A1 & EG where there's a running joke about his ass and everyone got over those minutes where his ass was focused. There's that photo (in lingerie) that appeared on Tony's ipad? for like 0.1second but isn't that reasonable considering she is an undercover spy on a honeypot mission? I might also add that backseat car scene in IR2 is kinda understandable I mean it's just her changing her clothes and we can only get glimpse of Scarlett's bra and leg for fucks sake why are people acting like we got full minutes of Scarlett's naked body for no fucking reason? We are talking about a character with very loose (not in that slut shaming way but in morally gray/complex way)views on everything including where/how to change, what to do in her missions,... Her undercover time in IR2 is literally the embodiment of that statement "Natasha is comfortable with everything" that is said by Nick to Steve. This honestly an aspect of hers people overlook &is remembered only to describe her as the team's slut, a pass around who has no values. There's also that 1 scene in AOU where Bruce falls from what I don't remember" on her boobs I get it it was unnecessary but if people just for a second ignored their hatred for brucenat this scene can be overlooked if it was done in a way that makes it spontaneous and reasons why exactly Bruce would fall on nat instead of elsewhere, plus it's just 1 scene. It's sad that even her fans start by "even though she's so sexualized, I like her". I just want to know where is this grand sexualization to a point it's constitute part of the character. I know she was sexualized in a way, that fucking lower zip always drove me insane like ZIP IT UP WOMAN but she got a total of 3:45 min screentime, it's stupid or maybe very telling of the people's part if her unzipped suit is the most memorable of those nearly 4 hours. I honestly think it's because Scarlett is a hot woman with ample chest & those misogynist dudebro nerds only cared for her body & treated as an eye candy and refused to acknowledge her effectiveness then others just believed in the loud notices, it's like circular victim blaming.

I get ur point, but i think its good that ppl point this out so studios will stop with the unnecessary shots on female characters. And maybe actually put more efforts on building their story and their arc.

A character can be sexy and loose in a non sexualized way. They can be sexy spy without having to appeal to men or to anyone. I don’t think ppl meant to reduce her character to how she was represented visually, rather theyre pointing it out.

Because if we don’t, she’ll just stay a side character that they use to uplift other characters. I mean look where we are now? All the og avengers had their back stories all fleshed out, they showed it on screen and we get an even deeper understanding of their character.

Albeit Natasha is not a side character, but how much do we actually know about her? How long did it take til she had her own solo movie? No disrespect to Captain Marvel, but she was the first female avengers to be introduced in the mcu. Why did it took her death to get her a movie? how much did we get to enjoy her story on screen? They kept talking about the infamous Budapest story, yeah Nat told us the story, but are u really fucking staisfied with that??

You see where I’m getting at?

Natasha is such an amazing character with an amazing story and complex personality, yet we barely get to see it. Instead of exploring her character they often use her to push another character’s arc. It’s stupid, it’s lazy, and honestly waste of potential.

I love ur take on that car scene where she changed her clothes. But in my opinion that scene could’ve been done in a different way, yet still showed her loose personality. You can tell the studio meant for that scene to appeal to men. Compare that scene, with her changing clothes in BW movie. See the difference? Same type of scene, shot in a different way, with a different mindset.

As much as i would love to brush off those scenes as part of her character, if we keep letting these studios go like that. They’re just gonna keep using great female characters as a tool to push the arc of male characters while disregarding her own story.

#vlake answers

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adumpofdumbstuff · 10 months

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So on the subject of Stucky [VERY LONG, TW: DEPRESSION]

And a quick note, Bucky looks at Steve the same way Q looks at Picard.

So, some member of Marvel or something somewhere if someone could find the web article for me please???

Someone who works for Marvel essentially said that Bucky and Nat were both crushing on Steve.

HAHA OK so since it’s not on the screen, you can tell us?

Yeah, that’s my opinion on a lot of things. Sometimes on screen, it’s still so damn obvious. Qcard. SO OBVIOUS. Dakavendish.

Look at Dakota’s face. This is the dorky smile I would get around my ex.

Oh also book series, specifically WARRIOR CATS in which Scholastic said “No you can’t have Leafpool and Mothwing be together” and so that didn’t happen because the Erins are pushovers (???) and then behind the scenes they’ll stay stuff like “yes Darkstripe was gay” “some of us see Tallstar and Jake as something more” “oh yeah RavenBarley is canon”

Yeah, so actually making it happen will bother the censors, right? You do realize answers are a translate away?

Yes, this is a person who is aware how broken Google Translate is but believe me.

Alright, back to Stucky. I can understand why it wouldn’t get canonized. In the comics, Bucky was actually younger than Steve. A LOT younger. They had a father-son dynamic, think Batman and Robin from DC. I don’t remember why this was changed, but I suppose it could have been a bit strange. HOWEVER!!! I, like several other people, HATE the Endgame ending with a passion. Steve’s character arc revolved around Bucky. When was the last time Peggy was relevant? When Steve helped carry her coffin? All of a sudden he sees her in Endgame and “I’m with you till the end of the line” means NOTHING and he goes and lives out his life with a woman who had a full life WITHOUT HIM.

I’m just- I’m just… UPSET with Marvel about this. I’m upset with the Russo Brothers the most cuz they directed this movie.

Guys, when a slash ship is even PARTIALLY canon, treat it with respect on the screen/page. You anger the fandom beast when you don’t.

Oh, and that brings me to another thing that pisses me off. Fandoms bringing canon LGBTQIA-whatever-letters-there’s-a-plus-here-guys+ in so late in the game. Do you realize how long fandoms like Marvel and Star Trek had to wait for this stuff? I mean, I guess Seven counts, but the Seven x Raffi romance wasn’t the best executed??? And the fact Star Trek’s first same-gender kiss WASN’T IN DISCOVERY and was in DS9 and people FORGOT ABOUT IT??? However, even though Eternals SUUUUCKED, it did the whole “Phastos has a husband and son” thing right. Still a twinge annoyed.

Having characters canonized as queer later is cool tho. Warrior Cats with Ravenpaw, Harry Potter and Ron apparently (I do not support JKR) even though if the series happens it will probably suck and their romance would probably feel like shoehorned fan service (Don’t shoehorn your fan service).

BACK ON TOPIC, don’t know if you cared about The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I did. I thought it was… okay dealing with stuff like racism at a time where struggles that the Black community faces really started coming back into the public eye, as well as the idea of the interest narratives that could come from everyone returning after being gone 5 years.

But here, we’re talking about Bucky’s therapy. Don’t know if you know this, but the actress who played Bucky’s therapist, Dr. Raynor, said that this therapy, though court-mandated, could be LIFE-SAVING.

Of course he’s depressed, his best friend/love of his life (AKA NOT SARAH WILSON) ABANDONED him.

I’m just saying saying this stuff doesn’t help with how messed up Steve leaving was to begin with!

Now there was one more thing I was gonna say but I forgot so I’ll post a part 2 when I remember.

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hangovercurse · 3 years

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Until You Fall Asleep

After moving in with the crew to help cure your quarantine boredom, you find a new way to deal with your insomnia.

Request: “Could you please do a Colson fanfic where you're a friend of the gang and you move into their house for quarantine so you're not alone. Colson finds out you have terrible insomnia and starts staying up to keep you company and you gradually start sleeping in his bed because it's the only place you seem to actually sleep. You start to get really close through these late night chats, watching films, sharing stuff and opening up to each other... Friendship starts to develop into something else. I need some fluff to see me through these sleepless nights! 🙏😘 Thanks!”

Colson X Reader

Warnings: cursing

Word Count: 3487

Living with your best friends during a nationwide quarantine seemed like a good idea when you agreed to it, but after the 5th night of wandering the huge house late at night because you couldn’t sleep, you were starting to think you should’ve stayed where you were. At least at your own place, you didn’t have to worry about sneaking around so as not to wake anyone up.

Luckily, no one seemed to notice that you woke up earlier than everyone else in the house or went to sleep later. Or if they did, no one said anything.

Day five

Tonight hadn’t been going so well. You had tried showering, you hadn’t eaten for at least a few hours before trying to sleep, you turned your lavender diffuser on, you’d even tried yoga. Nothing helped, and you were left staring at your ceiling.

Frustrated and uncomfortable, you rolled out of your bed, sock clad feet pattering across your room and slowly pulling your door open. You made your way through the house and out to the pool, letting the cool night air wash over you. A deep breath fell from your lips as you began to pace around the deck, hoping to tire yourself out enough to sleep.

After a few minutes, you heard the sliding glass door open, looking up and finding Colson stepping out with a blunt in his hand. He smiled tiredly at you, “you’re up early.”

You raised an eyebrow, “what time is it?” You figured it was 4, maybe 5 am.

“Almost 7,” he looked concerned, “you okay?”

You were trying to figure out how you managed to stay up until 7 am without a wink of sleep, “yeah, just couldn’t sleep. It’s cool though. Why are you up?”

Colson lit the blunt as he spoke, “couldn’t sleep either.”

Day eight

You found yourself curled up on the couch, reading a book at 5:30 in the morning after hours of trying to fall asleep. You swore if you stayed in your room a second longer, you’d break something, so you snuck out to the TV room with the most boring book you could find.

“Do you ever sleep?” Colson’s voice surprised you, making you jump lightly in your seat. The man chuckled at your reaction, taking a seat next to you.

You pouted at his glee, “I could ask you the same thing.”

He shrugged, “sleep is for the weak.”

A sarcastic chuckle fell from your lips, “oh yeah, I feel so strong and cool right now.”

The man laughed with you, but soon turned serious, “serious though, are you good? Both nights this week I haven’t slept you’ve been awake, and I know you don’t take naps.”

You sighed, “it’s just insomnia, I’ve been dealing with it on and off for a couple years now. It’s not a big deal.”

He cocked his head in curiosity and worry, “how much sleep have you been getting?”

You ducked your head in embarrassment, “I slept for an hour at like 3, hopefully I’ll fall asleep again at some point tonight.”

Colson frowned, “can I help at all?”

A small smile fell upon your face, “sometimes talking helps, but honestly not much else. It’s not that big of a problem, though. I’ve been dealing with this for a while, I’m used to it.”

He looked shocked, “dude, you sleep for a few hours every night! That’s a problem. I don’t even know how you’re still alive.”

“Like you’ve never gone a couple days in a row without sleeping,” you said sarcastically.

“No! I go to sleep late as fuck, but I sleep eventually most nights. You’re on a whole different level.” His tone was slightly defensive, if not concerned, “do I need to get you some pills or something? I can do that.”

Your eyes went wide, “Jesus, Kells, no. I have enough to deal with, I don’t need another addiction on my hands too.”

He chuckled, “I’m just saying it might help. I’m assuming weed does nothing?”

You sighed sadly, “it did for a while, but I think my body got used to it. I just have to wait it out until I inevitably pass out.”

“Well, guess I’ll just bother you until you fall asleep.” He relaxed further into the couch, throwing an arm around your shoulders.

“Colson, you really don’t have to-“

“You won’t let me get you drugs, so I’m gonna stay up with you. It’s the least I can do.” He smiled widely, knowing he would get his way.

“You’re ridiculous, you know that, right?”

Day Twelve

“You think that Captain America has the best character arc? Seriously?”

Your nightly chats with Colson had moved into his room after Baze was woken up by Colson’s loud laughter during a conversation about what type of dogs you’d both be. So, you were sat cross legged on his bed, facing each other in deep conversation.

The man tried to defend his stance to you, “okay, I know everyone loves Tony’s whole asshole to hero thing, but Captain America went from this goody two shoes to this badass criminal and he still got the girl in the end.”

You shook your head, “you’re just wrong in every way. I’m not even saying Iron Man had a better story, but literally every other character developed more than Steve. He wasn’t that badass in the end, and the fact that he went back to get the girl just proves he never really changed all that much. He was static.”

“So, you’re telling me, if we watched every single movie with Captain America in it, you wouldn’t be entertained?” He crossed his arms and leaned backwards, eyeing you challengingly.

You scoffed, “the movies are fine, I just think that Marvel has produced better superheroes with better plotlines.”

“New plan, we’re going to watch every marvel movie in order and then you can tell me that I’m right.” He grabbed the remote and turned on the TV across from his bed.

Rolling your eyes, you moved back to lean against the headrest, legs spread out in front of you, “you’re not right, but I’ll watch them just to see the look on your face when you realize you’re wrong.”

Colson flopped down on the bed next to you, throwing an arm over your shoulder and pulling you so that you were leaning into his side. A yawn escaped his mouth, “if you get tired, let me know.”

You giggled, “I’m always tired, I just can’t sleep. I won’t get offended if you fall asleep though.”

He pulled a face, “I’m not falling asleep.”

About an hour into the movie the slow rise and fall of his chest indicated differently. You chuckled to yourself once you realized he had fallen asleep, turning further into his chest, and allowing yourself to get more comfortable.

Somewhere between 4 and 5 am, you found your eyes finally closing of their own accord, unconsciousness washing over you.

Day 17

Since starting your marvel movie binges with Colson, you’d found yourself getting more sleep. You couldn’t tell if it was from the movies or from Colson, but either way something seemed to be working.

Tonight, however, even your new routine wouldn’t lull you to sleep. You tried every breathing exercise in the book, but nothing seemed to work. Colson had fallen asleep a while ago, his arm wrapped around you as per usual, so you couldn’t talk yourself to sleep.

So, you decided to take a stroll around the house, hoping the small form of physical activity would help. But in order to get out of bed, you would have to find a way out of Colson’s embrace without waking him up.

You slowly and gently grabbed his hand and removed it from your side, laying it on the bed next to you. Then, you sat up slowly, only to be pulled back into his chest, “where’re you going?”

His voice was deep and gravelly, sleepiness very evident. You responded with a whispered, “I can’t sleep, was gonna go walk around.”

He pulled you in closer to him, nuzzling his face into the crown of your head, “but you’re so warm.”

You chuckled, cuddling into the man, “fine, I’ll stay.” You tried to close your eyes and find sleep, but again, none came. Sighing, you accepted that you would be stuck in your current position, realizing there were worse things than being wrapped up in a beautiful boy’s arms.

Day 25

“I know aliens probably exist, but do you think they’d ever take one of us to study?”

Colson chuckled at your question, “like a human in general or, like, you and me?”

“Like you or me. Do you think we’re important enough to be studied?”

He squeezed your waist, “I think you are in desperate need of sleep.”

Laughing, you responded, “I’m serious! And I have been sleeping, thank you very much.”

“Okay, fine. I think if aliens ever came to Earth, they’d probably be more interested in, like, genius billionaires or really dumb people, like people from Florida.”

You slapped his arm, “don’t be mean to Florida.”

You could feel the vibrations from his laughter, making you giggle. “Fine, but my point is they wouldn’t be interested in us unless they’re really into music.”

“Darn,” you huffed.

He raised an eyebrow at you, “you want aliens to take you and study you?”

Balancing yourself on his chest, you lifted yourself up to look down at him, “yes! That would be so fucking cool.”

He shook his head with a laugh, “you’re crazy.”

“Think about it, who else would be able to say they got studied by aliens. And then you’d know that you were important to someone, even if it is just alien scientists.”

Rolling his eyes, Colson pulled you back down into him, your hands still resting on his chest, “I don’t need aliens to know I’m important.”

“Well not all of us can be ubertalented rock stars with millions of fans,” you joked, a teasing smile on your face.

You glanced up to find his eyes trained on you, holding a softer look in them than you had expected, “I didn’t mean that.”

It took a few moments for his words to get processed by your brain, but you immediately dismissed the thought that he could be talking about you specifically. More than likely he was referencing his family in general, which you could be included in.

Day 31

To celebrate a full month in quarantine, the guys had decided to throw an in-house only party, which just meant that everyone had an excuse to drink together more than normal. You were staying mostly sober, knowing that otherwise the boys would most likely break something, most likely themselves.

You watched from your place on the kitchen counter as Rook, Baze, Slim, Dre, Irv, Dub, and Colson played a round of King’s cup.

“Y/N, you have to drink,” Rook called from across the room, “it’s a six.”

“If there’s no women playing then you just skip that card, Rookie.” You called but took a sip from your cup anyways.

Colson whined, “this is boring.” You chuckled as he moved away from the table to come stand by you, the rest of the guys continuing without him. He leaned against the counter next to your dangling leg, letting you run your fingers through his blond hair, “parties are boring now, Y/N.”

You could tell that he was gone, the alcohol having almost full control of him. “When we get out of quarantine, we’ll throw the biggest party ever, Kells,” you said, letting your hand fall to rest on his shoulder. The man grasped your hand in his and moved it back up to the top of his head, silently begging for you to continue. He turned into a cat, practically purring as he leaned into you, “hey, Kells, you tired?”

He shook his head, “no, ‘m gonna stay up with you, remember?”

You laughed softly, “it’s okay, Kells. You should get some sleep; I’ll be okay for a night.”

His arms wrapped around your middle, head burying into your stomach, “I’ll go to sleep if you do.”

“You gotta let me off this counter for that.” This was a side of Colson you rarely saw; the drunk, very cuddly version of Colson. Occasionally he’d cling on to you when he got really tired, but that was in the privacy of his room. Here he was hanging onto you in front of all his friends, though granted they were too drunk to notice anything unusual.

You hopped off the counter, taking on some of Colson’s body weight in order to get him up the stairs and to his room. Truthfully, you planned to leave him in his bed once you got him there, but he had other plans. As soon as you moved to walk away from the bed, he grabbed your arm sleepily, “why are you leaving?”

Running a hand along his jaw softly, you softly said, “I’m gonna go to my room.”

He whined, “you never sleep in your room, stay.”

You bit your lip, unsure how to respond to that, “Kells, you’re drunk, you need some sleep.”

“I can’t sleep without you.” His eyes were glazed over, making his pleading look even more appealing than normal.

Sighing, you muttered, “yes, you can. I’ll be right down the hall,” but he wasn’t taking no for an answer, hand still firmly around your wrist.

“No.”

You rolled your eyes, climbing into the bed next to him, “I’m only doing this because you need to go to sleep.” He hummed in response to that, wrapping his arms around you and pulling you tightly into him, leaving no room for you to escape even if you tried.

Day 37

Nights with Colson had slowly turned into every moment with Colson. You woke up together, ate breakfast together, spent time together. You were rarely separated for long, not that either of you minded.

At some point, the line between friends and whatever lied next had gotten blurred, but not fully crossed. You and Colson were touchy and cuddly during the day as well as at night, and everyone in the house was starting to notice it.

Part of you just wanted to kiss him and see what happened, but you knew messing with a situation like this could go very wrong very fast. So, you just left it up to him to figure out where this thing would go, knowing he probably wouldn’t make the first move either.

But as you laid in his arms, listening to his midnight ramblings, you couldn’t help but wonder what would happen if you took matters into your own hands. You watched his lips move as he spoke, wanting nothing more than to lean up and press your own against them. Of course, you would never actually do it, but it was nice to dream.

There was a lull in the conversation which was spent with your eyes dancing across each other’s face, trying to figure out what to say next. Suddenly, he blurted out, “can I get your advice on something?”

You nodded in response, a soft smile on your face. He continued, “this sounds so stupid, but there’s this girl I’ve been talking to recently and I can’t figure out if she ‘s into me or we’re just really good friends.”

You sat up slightly, perking an eyebrow up, “well what signs has she given you that she’s into you?” Your heart burned, hoping he was talking about you. It was a feeling that had been happening a lot recently whenever you were around him, which was almost all the time.

He sighed, “I mean, we talk like, all the time about everything. And I think she flirts with me, but I’m not completely sure if she’s flirting or she’s just being friendly.”

“Well, what signs say that she’s not into you?” You ask, biting your lip to hide the grin forming on your face.

Colson hesitated, “I mean, none, really. I’m just scared of messing up our friendship, you know?”

You nodded, “well, you’ll never know if you never ask her. I’m sure it’ll work out.”

He was quiet for a long time, clearly turning the advice over in his head, “I would but, with quarantine and everything, I just don’t think it’s the right time. We wouldn’t be able to actually, you know.”

Your heart fell, realizing that there was no possible way he was talking about you. It felt like every bone in your body turned to Jell-o at the realization, a lump forming in your throat. “Right, well, maybe you could invite her over to the house. Or do a cute facetime date or something.”

He nodded but stayed quiet. You fully sat up, swinging your legs off the bed. “Where are you going?” he asked softly.

Something inside of you was slowly crumbling, and you needed to get yourself out of his presence as soon as possible, “I just need to take a walk, I don’t think I’m tired enough to get any form of sleep.”

Colson let out a small “oh,” as you stood up and swiftly left the room, tears forming in your eyes.

You felt silly for letting yourself fall so easily and for thinking that he might have felt the same way. But you could’ve sworn there was something forming between you two.

And how had you never heard of this new girl? How long had that been going on?

So many thoughts swirled around in your head as you made your way downstairs and out to the empty pool deck, pacing the familiar space. You tried to convince yourself that your feelings weren’t as strong as they actually were so that this could somehow be easier, but you knew it wouldn’t work.

The sound of the door sliding open caught your attention, your eyes meeting those all too familiar blue ones. “You okay?” he asked, leaning against the wall of the house. You flashed him a fake smile with a nod. “This doesn’t have anything to do with what I just-”

“No, no,” you cut him off, “I’m just restless right now, needed to get some energy out.”

He nodded, watching you cautiously, “I’m actually super tired, so I’m gonna get some sleep. I’ll see you in a few?”

You nodded, knowing full well you had no intention of getting back into his bed, “yeah, goodnight.” You turned your head to the ground, studying the cement below your feet.

The door opened and shut, but when you looked back up, Colson was still standing outside, watching you. “I don’t know why I said that. There isn’t a girl in quarantine. Well, I mean, there is, but we wouldn’t not be able to see each other.”

Your head was spinning, trying to make sense of whatever he was saying. He kept talking, “I got nervous and chickened out and then you left and I felt like an idiot.” You looked up to him, confusion evident on your face as he continued on the borderline of rambling, “so I’m just gonna throw this out there and whatever happens, happens.”

You stared at him blankly, not fully processing his words or what was happening.

“Would you wanna go on a date with me? Or, like, whatever kind of date we can pull off here?”

Your eyes went wide in shock, the rollercoaster you had just been on emotionally twisting your mind. You didn’t speak for a few moments, making Colson nervous, but you finally got out a stuttered, “yes.”

He sighed in relief, “god I feel like such a teenager right now.”

You came back to your senses, narrowing your eyes at him, “do you realize the emotional turmoil you just put me through? I feel like I’m crazy!”

He chuckled, moving towards you, and wrapping his arms around your waist, “I know, I’m an asshole. But it was worth it, right?”

“I was literally rethinking my entire life out here,” you pouted, leaning into his touch.

He leaned down and pressed a kiss to the corner of your mouth, “I’ll make it up to you, I promise.”

You rolled your eyes, “look who’s all Mr. confident now.”

The vibrations of his laugh shook your own body, “well, you said yes. This would be a completely different story if you had said no. Then I would be the one rethinking my entire life.”

You smirked teasingly, “I could always change my mind.”

He shook his head with a chuckle, “shut up.” His lips met yours, one hand reaching up to softly hold your jaw. You melted into the kiss, your arms moving to wrap around his neck loosely.

You pulled away slowly, a smile spread on your face, “this almost makes not being able to sleep worth it.”

Tag list:

@bakerkells @elviablo @iambashfulperson @sunflowerbebe107 @crystalbaby12 @stormrider505 @ticketstomydaydreams @mvrylee @daddyavesxx @pettyvxbes @prettydreamboy

#mgk #mgk imagine #mgk fluff #machine gun kelly #colson baker imagine #colson imagine #machine gun kelly imagine #machine gun kelly x reader #Colson baker #colson x reader #colson baker fluff

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sineala · 3 years

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The gay Invaders

Hi, internet! Today I'd like to talk about one of the chronologically-first canonically-gay couples in Marvel Comics history: Brian Falsworth (the second Union Jack) and Roger Aubrey (The Destroyer). (I mean "chronological" in terms of in-universe timeline rather than RL publication date; I'm pretty sure Northstar is still the first to publication as far as unambiguously-gay Marvel heroes go.)

If you are a fan of reading or writing about Captain America being queer, you should care about Brian and Roger, because they were two of Steve's fellow Invaders in the 1940s, meaning that they are two of the people on the list of Steve's Old Gay Friends And Teammates, because, yeah, Steve sure had a lot of canonically gay friends during the war. Probably more than you'd think he would have had in the forties! (The other two are Percival Pinkerton, who's part of Nick Fury's Howling Commandos, and of course Steve's childhood friend Arnie Roth. Pinky is gay by word of Stan Lee, IIRC; Arnie was as canonically gay as DeMatteis could make him in the early 1980s, so they didn't say the word "gay" but it's really, really not subtle. Steve compares what Arnie feels for his "roommate" Michael to what Steve feels for his girlfriend Bernie. Yeah.)

I previously made a Tumblr post about Brian and Roger, rounding up some of the canonical evidence of their relationship, but that post is six years old now, and in the intervening years, Marvel has thoughtfully put the rest of the 70s Invaders run on Unlimited as well as the two Citizen V miniseries that star Roger and retcon his relationship with Brian as romantic. So I've read them now, and I've got panels.

Okay. I should probably begin by saying that Brian and Roger are not canonically gay in their first significant appearance together, which is in Invaders vol 1 #19 and #20, published in 1977. Roy Thomas does not seem to have intended them to be a couple, and they aren't canonically one in any of the original Invaders run. However, if you enjoy gay subtext, it's very nice.

This whole arc is the one that introduces Roger in modern canon. He's been brainwashed by the Nazis and the Invaders rescue him and get him back to his normal self. But in #19 we get his backstory in flashback, as related by Montgomery, Lord Falsworth (Brian's father; yes, MCU fans, the name should look familiar) and it turns out that Roger and Brian were basically best friends since childhood:

They were the dearest of friends!

Anyway, they both ended up captured by Nazis, they presumably changed their minds about appeasement as a policy, Brian got out and joined the Invaders, then they had to rescue the brainwashed Roger, and it's a fair amount of fun in a two-issue arc.

The subtext is even more prominent in Invaders #34, in which they find out that someone going by the Destroyer (which is Roger's codename) has been doing villainous deeds, and the Invaders worry that Roger's gotten himself brainwashed again. Brian immediately insists that it can't really be Roger because he knows Roger and Roger Would Never:

Unsurprisingly, Brian is right. It's not really Roger; Master Man is impersonating the Destroyer, and the villains have taken Roger captive, and the Invaders break him out and there is an extremely significant moment where it just so happens that Roger has to catch Brian, saving his life for a change, and they stare deeply into each other's eyes and Brian seems to be having difficulty finishing his sentences:

Some people who read this therefore concluded that Brian and Roger were extremely gay for each other. While ordinarily this sort of shipping is mostly confined to fandom, in this particular instance, one of the people who started shipping Brian/Roger was Fabian Nicieza, and Fabian Nicieza, as you probably know, writes comics for Marvel. I think you see where this is going.

However, first I must inform you that, sadly, Brian has been canonically dead for years. Captain America vol 1 #253-254 -- the two-parter about Baron Blood in the Stern/Byrne Cap run in the 80s -- establishes that Brian died in a car accident in 1953. (This is also the run where Joseph Chapman -- a friend of Jacqueline Falsworth's son Kenneth -- becomes the third (and current) Union Jack.)

(Roger then appears in a bunch of T-Bolts issues; I assume there's nothing interesting there on the gay front because I feel like someone would have told me. I should probably read more than three T-Bolts issues someday.)

So, anyway, in 2001, Fabian Nicieza wrote a miniseries called Citizen V and the V-Battalion. Roger, who is still superheroing as the Destroyer despite being pretty old by this point, is part of the titular V-Battalion, and he has a very prominent role in this miniseries. And in #1, we have the usual splash page of character backstory, and there's a very, um, interesting line there:

Regarding Brian and Roger's relationship, the narration informs us: "It sounds much gayer than it probably was."

This is interesting, obviously for a couple of reasons. One is that, up to this point in canon, as far as I can tell, literally nobody thought any of this sounded the slightest bit gay at all. (Other than, I guess, Fabian Nicieza.) The other reason is that, as we soon find out, it actually was as gay as it sounds. Thanks, Fabian!

In 2002, Nicieza wrote a second miniseries, Citizen V and the V-Battalion: The Everlasting. Issue #1 opens with a flashback set in 1953; specifically, we see Brian's funeral:

Roger is extremely sad, and when Lord Falsworth expresses his sympathy about the death of Roger's "friend" and saying that he knows how much this hurts him, Roger mutters under his breath that he doesn't have the slightest clue:

All is revealed on the next page, when one of the other characters tries to ask Roger about superhero business and Roger snaps at him because, as he says, "I just watched my friend die in my arms."

Except "friend" isn't the word he starts to say:

Yep. That would be "lover." So Roger nearly outs himself. So, yes, now it's absolutely canon. Hooray.

Later on in the issue, which is set in the present day, we have a couple pages of Roger staring at pictures of the two of them and continuing to be sad:

Yeah. They were a couple.

So the question you -- being a Captain America fan -- might ask yourself is, okay, did/does Steve know about any of this? (The reason I started looking all this up was because I wanted to know if Steve knew.) I don't know if we have a panel of Roger specifically admitting any of this to Steve (and if we do, I would like to know about it), but I would be comfortable saying that Steve probably knew back then -- because, well, he seems like the kind of guy who would actually have been fine with it in the 40s, what with all his gay friends -- and also that I can't think of a reason why he wouldn't know now. Because he's definitely worked with Roger again in fairly recent comics, and also Roger is very much out, these days.

In fact, New Invaders #4 (2004) opens with Roger attending Pride:

So, yeah, he's out.

(Then he has to fight, as far as I can tell, homophobic Nazi vampires. They're yelling slurs in German. Great.)

In All-New Invaders #10, which is from 2014 (and which is not the same series as New Invaders), Roger shows up to help out the Invaders, and in passing, he just happens to mention to another character (Joseph Chapman, the current Union Jack), that he is in fact gay:

He and Joseph don't really like each other much; as far as I can tell, their acquaintance in New Invaders consists of Joseph being vaguely homophobic and Roger being bitter about him being Union Jack because he actually wanted to be Union Jack himself to honor Brian's memory -- you know, that thing superheroes sometimes like to do to honor their dead superhero significant others, viz. Hank when Jan was dead after Secret Invasion -- and now Union Jack is this annoying kid and not, y'know, the love of his life. This exchange from New Invaders #4 seems pretty representative of their relationship:

Anyway, yeah, he's pretty obviously out.

Steve isn't actually present for this conversation in All-New Invaders, but he mentions in a later issue of this run that he knows what Roger and his pals have been up to, plot-wise, so I feel comfortable assuming that he's talked to Roger at some point in the previous ten years or so, and therefore, since Roger is completely out at this point in canon, there's no reason Steve shouldn't know now.

On an unrelated note, it's also a fun issue if you're a Steve/Tony fan because this is clearly running in parallel with Hickman's Avengers run, which means that he spends half a page telling Namor that he's mad at him and the rest of the Illuminati (but mostly mad at Tony because... he's just obsessed with Tony in this run, I guess?) about the mindwipe:

This is the sum total of my knowledge about Brian and Roger. No, wait, I know one more thing, which is that Brian was a character in the late, lamented mobile game Avengers Academy, in which he was also actually gay; Roger does not seem to have been there. There's a CBR article that you can read about the whole thing, which mentions some of these details from the comics in passing. (I have no idea why it says that their relationship was alluded to in the Stern/Byrne run; unless I missed something big, the only thing those issues do is establish Brian's death. As far as I can tell, no one is gay in them.)

So, yeah, that's Brian Falsworth and Roger Aubrey, the two gay Invaders. Steve sure has a lot of gay friends.

#posts i actually wrote

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themadamespod · 3 years

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Sharon Carter: A Study in Selfishness

The Falcon and the Winter Soldier spotlighted some hard truths. Beyond its real-world parallels, it’s changed our perspective on the MCU. And on the heels of the finale, we can’t help but reflect on how we got here.

It feels like ages ago that an alien invaded Earth believing it was his right to do so. This madman imposed his will upon a whole planet. He wielded god-like power over an entire species. He took the lives of countless people, leaving the rest to pick up the pieces of their shattered lives.

In doing so, he became one of the most beloved characters in the MCU.

So why is it that many of the people who adore a monster are now so disappointed with Sharon Carter?

Easy. Loki is a man.

Angels and Demons

Relax, everybody. This is not an anti-Loki treatise. I’m writing this post with a Loki poster behind my chair, a Loki mug on my desk, and a Loki t-shirt on my back.

To be fair, it helps that the God of Mischief is played by one of the most charming, attractive men in Hollywood. But Emily VanCamp is no slouch. She’s a beautiful, talented actor who elevates any project. So why are people upset that she’s the Power Broker?

Women aren’t supposed to veer from familial or cultural expectations.

Women aren’t supposed to put themselves first.

Women aren’t supposed to seize power in a man’s world.

The events of Civil War alone had a tremendous impact on the characters we love. Sam and Bucky’s respective ordeals changed them forever, and The Blip forced them to adapt even further. So many people are praising their growth in the TFATWS finale, and we’re among them. But it’s frustrating to then see comments like these:

“Omg wtf is wrong with Sharon? That is NOT who she is!”

“Since when is Sharon evil? That ain’t her.”

“Sharon is totally a Skrull. The Sharon we know would never turn her back on everything she stands for.”

Guess what, folks? Just like Sam and Bucky, the Sharon we once knew no longer exists. She, too, changed and grew - right out of the box that the patriarchy built for her. And people don’t know how to handle it.

Double Standards

Misogyny is so deeply woven into the fabric of our society that a lot of people, women included, often don’t see it. But it’s in almost every facet of daily life, leaching into our brains like a toxin. And TFATWS called Marvel out on it by illustrating a simple fact:

Men and women who behave in the same way are treated very differently.

A man who tramples others for a promotion is ambitious. A woman is a conniving bitch.

A man who sleeps around is held up as a ladies’ man. A woman is looked down upon as a whore.

A man who logs extra time at the office is a good provider. A woman is neglecting her family.

Despite centuries of fighting for our right to exist, women are still brainwashed to be and be seen as lesser than men. We’re expected to conform to roles meant to keep us subservient. We’re told that caring for others is more important than caring for ourselves.

Sharon Carter received the same cultural programming. And it’s likely that she felt familial pressure (either explicit or implicit) to follow in Aunt Peggy’s footsteps, whether she wanted to or not.

And follow she did.

Sharon joined S.H.I.E.L.D. She fought armed HYDRA agents. Then she sacrificed her life, her career, and her freedom for the greater good. And what did she get for it?

The same thing women always get when they put everyone else’s best interests ahead of their own.

She got fucked.

A Matter of Perspective

Let’s pretend the TFATWS finale had gone differently. The Power Broker is a previously unseen bad guy, a Wilson Fisk type. After the U.S. government branded her as a fugitive and the Avengers forgot her, Sharon has just been trying to survive in Madripoor.

Nonetheless, she helps Sam and Bucky neutralize Karli. Sam secures Sharon’s pardon and she reclaims her former post as a dutiful C.I.A. agent.

Talk about disappointing; that would be like watching a woman return to a man who beats her.

In reality, Sharon is revealed as the Power Broker. After the people for whom she gave everything betrayed her, she built a lucrative business from scratch using a canny brain and the skills S.H.I.E.L.D. taught her.

Now for those who are incensed by Sharon’s turn because she’s selling weapons, please see Exhibit A:

Even after Tony Stark stopped manufacturing weapons for the U.S. government, he continued making them for S.H.I.E.L.D. If memory serves, he also created a sentient murder-bot that leveled a city before nearly annihilating mankind.

Tony’s intentions were noble, but that didn’t make him any less responsible for a humanitarian disaster. The Sokovians would have been well within their rights to demand Tony’s arrest and incarceration.

But we love Tony, so we don’t like to go there.

And speaking of the U.S. government, let’s be real. American politicians wouldn’t condemn Sharon for illegally selling weapons to dangerous groups. They’d condemn her for cutting into their own profits.

If there’s one thing the U.S. government excels at, it’s creating and arming terrorists. Sharon’s just running their playbook.

Redefining Selfishness

In all fairness, some people’s disappointment over Sharon’s arc has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with heroism. For this discussion, see Exhibit B:

Ever since Steve Rogers got his happy ending with Peggy Carter in Endgame, the Marvel fandom has been divided into two camps.

Camp 1: Steve is a selfish bastard who abandoned his family, his country, and the world when they all needed him the most.

Camp 2: Steve did more than enough for his family, his country, and the world when they all needed him most and deserved his happiness.

I will always be a card-carrying member of Camp 2, which is one reason I exited my Endgame theater as a human ball of snot.

Steve Rogers gave enough for his country even before he was defrosted. He liberated a POW camp behind enemy lines. He defeated Red Skull. He saved countless lives by crashing the HYDRA bomber into the arctic, sacrificing his own life in the process.

And when he was resurrected after 70 years, did he stop and smell the roses? Read a book on the beach?

No. He saved the world. Again, and again, and again.

It’s incredibly noble that a life with Peggy is all Steve wanted. Think about Michael Bay’s uber-patriotic Armageddon. Those roughnecks had quite the list of demands for saving the world, all of which seemed perfectly reasonable because, hello, they were saving the world.

So what does this have to do with Sharon Carter? Well, if you’re in Steve Rogers Camp 1, you likely see Sharon as a selfish bitch. I’ll make the same argument in her defense:

She’s given more than enough for others. She has every right to now put herself first.

We as women need to redefine selfishness. It’s been weaponized against us for far too long. We have to reframe it as a positive concept whereby we simply make our needs a priority in our own lives.

If more women embraced selfishness, we would be unstoppable.

Oh, and if you’re in Steve Rogers Camp 2 but still disappointed in Sharon Carter, you’ve got some hypocrisy on your chin. Might want to wipe that off.

A Final Note

Alice Walker, who knows a thing or two about feminism, once said, “The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don’t have any.”

When the name “Power Broker” was first dropped on The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, it felt cheesy. But now it seems like the perfect title for a woman who not only refused to give up her power, but actively sought more.

Sharon Carter is unequivocally selfish, but that doesn’t make her evil or even wrong.

It makes her one powerful woman. And we can’t wait to see her again.

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crystal-witchiness · 3 years

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***Okay so I found this in my notes from May 2021 as a reaction to the scenes in the beginning of Endgame when Captain Marvel first brings Tony and Nebula back to Earth, when they first get off the ship, and when Tony yells at Steve a few scenes later when he looks like ‘Death Warmed Over’ in his robe and i thought I’d share -

Every time someone argues with me about my ABSOLUTE 100% belief that Steve and Tony had romantic feelings for each other, I’ll just show them this scene. “And I needed YOU.” He didn’t say “You guys” or “Your help.” Tony looked at Steve with so much pain in his eyes and said, “I needed y o u.” And Steve is just as broken watching Tony. This isn’t the first time this has happened between them. They had MANY scenes like this in Civil War (but I like to pretend that movie didn’t happen cause ‘ow blow a hole in my ship why dontcha?’) I mean technically I could submit that whole movie as evidence of their feelings but there are too many negative emotions wrapped up in it and it hurts. This movie is the first time they’ve seen each other since Civil War and when Tony first gets off the ship he basically falls into Steve’s arms. First of all, Steve fricking S P R I N T S when he sees Tony getting off the ship, then Tony sighs in relief and lets Steve take his weight. AND IMMEDIATELY begins unloading his grief about losing Peter cause he knew Steve would understand and comfort him. You can SEE s e e when Pepper runs up that (Ofc Tony does another sigh of relief that the snap didn’t take her (which I wish it did sorry Pepper your character stopped being interesting in the 2nd Iron Man)) Tony has to pull himself off of Steve and pretend to have it more together than he does because Pepper immediately begins crying and Tony has to comfort her. But Steve doesn’t leave his side. Tony cradling Pepper but he’s turning his body so that Steve can cradle him and ugh. Honestly I would have accepted a polyamorous relationship. Tony NEEDED someone to be the leader. THATS LITERALLY WHAT PEPPER WAS TALKING ABOUT. Tony NEVER rests because he always thinks he has to be the one to do everything, EXCEPT for when Steve’s around. Steve is the Captain and even though they bump heads (a lot, awww couples’ squabbles) Tony ALWAYS defers to Steve when it’s important. And Steve? Steve HAS to be a leader, to be helpful, in a healthy way because he couldn’t be that for most of his life in the past. He was a scrawny defenseless guy who always had to depend on Bucky. So to be able to take care of this group of wonderful people who are so powerful and yet STILL NEED STEVE? It’s who he his. It’s who Tony is too but he doesn’t WANT to be that way, he does it because he has to. He does it when no one else can or he doesn’t want to lose anyone else. This scene right now is Tony feeling helpless and so he lashes out at the easiest person, Steve. Steve is their leader and has saved them many times. Tony saw that picture of Peter and couldn’t handle his own feelings of helplessness so he lashed out to bring down the next ‘leader figure’ of the group. Steve and Tony have always been the parents of the Avengers. Steve is the most dad-est dad ever to dad. Meanwhile, Tony invites everyone to live with him while feeding them, clothing them (armor and civilian clothes) and making sure they have top of the line protection. HE LITERALLY EVEN SAYS THIS IN AGE OF ULTRON. SUCH a mom. So he wanted to make Steve feel his pain because Steve made a promise that they would lose together and Steve wasn’t there on that moon. And OF COURSE Tony knows that Steve was on earth fighting his own battle against Thanos but he wasn’t WITH Tony. And they are always stronger together than apart. (Civil War kinda proved this too) Tony sees Steve’s absence as the reason they lost, because ‘if only they’d been together’ ‘maybe we could have won if we’d only been together.’

ALSO DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED ON TONY LITERALLY GIVING STEVE A REPRESENTATION OF HIS HEART. I know he did it out of anger and to make a point but he took away this piece of him, that he made SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE HE FELT VULNERABLE WITHOUT THE ARC, and gave it to Steve. Once again shedding that responsibility and giving it to Steve. Because even with the residual anger over Civil War, Tony trusts Steve. He says otherwise in this moment out of anger but that “vision” he talks about here? He literally watches Steve die (YEAH THATS RIGHT I SAID STEVE. Not PEPPER, NOT RHODEY, NOT ANY OF THE OTHER AVENGERS.) Wanda showed him his worst fear in Age of Ultron and it was the death of the Avengers, but he didn’t see THEM die. Everyone else, Thor, Bruce, Natasha, and Clint were already dead. Tony watched STEVE die and it was STEVE saying that Tony could’ve saved them that spurred him into creating Ultron. He was so scared of losing them and letting Steve down (and letting him die) that he wanted to wrap the whole world in armor to protect him. And he tries to do it again in this scene. He means it to be spiteful but he gives Steve his armor and tells him to hide from Thanos. WHICH IS ANOTHER THING UGH. Tony doesn’t know that out of all of the people who fought Thanos in Wakanda that day, Steve was the one who engaged in hand-to-hand combat with him. Everyone else had armor and suits, weapons, etc. Steve has his serum strength and he u s e d it. It didn’t help for very long but he used his BARE HANDS to fight an alien-monster wielding 5/6 of ALL POWERFUL infinity stones, and ofc he was never going to win, but even Thanos looked at Steve in incredulity at his bravery and resolve. A human (a super charged one at that but still a human) fought him with his bare hands and wasn’t going to stop. (Steve proved this again at the end of Endgame when he’s the last one standing against Thanos and his entire army and just tightens the strap on his broken shield, (and most likely broken arm, based on the flinch/hiss) and readies himself to fight alone. Steve also gave Wanda time to destroy the mind stone (unfortunately, that didn’t mean anything in the end)

AND YET Tony doesn’t know any of this. He doesn’t know how hard Steve fought, just like Tony did on Titan, to stop Thanos. And I REALLY wish we had seen Tony’s reaction to Steve standing up to Thanos at the end of Endgame OR EVEN WIELDING MJOLNIR, but anyways.

Back to the basics. Boss level stuff most people don’t remember or think about- Tony’s dad very unhealthily IDOLIZED Steve. He canonically compared everything Tony did to Steve. So Tony grew up idolizing this man that he also despised because it fueled his father’s abuse of him. Tony shows this anger in the first Avengers. When they have their argument on the quinjet. “Everything special about you came out of a bottle.” He even says something about how Steve didn’t live up to his father’s hype (I don’t remember Tony’s exact words but that’s the gist) And ofc Steve says Tony’s nothing without his armor. But then they go on the prove each other wrong multiple times, but mainly in their last moments in the MCU. Steve proves it by standing alone against an ENTIRE alien army and later by picking up mjolnir. And Tony? Tony is that ONE factor in a million that Stephen sees. Tony, a beautifully pure human-being, with no powers or serums to help, takes on the powers of the stones. KNOWING it would kill him. He had proof. It nearly killed Thanos and Bruce and they were hulking (pun intended) beings with super strength and all that.

Tony and Steve were always set up to be spoils to one another and that makes them perfect together. They balance each other out. Pepper was a boss b****, no doubt, and I loved their relationship in the first two Iron Man movies, but as their characters grew and Tony’s personality was intrinsically changed through trauma- Pepper was no longer right for him. She was good for him, no doubt, but Tony couldn’t relax with her as he did with Steve. Tony could trust Steve to take over and everything could be fine. Pepper was like that for Stark Industries but not in other ways. Tony always saw himself as Pepper’s protector. I will 100% give her props for telling Tony that he’d never rest until he tried Scott’s time travel theory, but other than that she wasn’t particularly supportive of Iron. Man. What Pepper never seemed to understand, and what Steve didn’t understand when he FIRST met Tony, is that Tony and Iron Man are synonymous. Their is no ‘man outside the suit.’ Tony Stark is Iron Man and Iron Man is Tony Stark. Steve was placed into an already created persona of Captain America. Steve didn’t create Captain America even though that’s who he was. He was literally MADE for the role. Tony on the other hand, MADE Iron Man. He was the one who built the first suit - dying in a cave in Afghanistan. He was the one who took responsibility for Obadiah and his father’s actions and became a superhero to save the countries that were affected by Stark tech. Steve may have volunteered to be a superhero because he felt like he had no one other choice but Tony DIDN’T HAVE TO. He had fame, money, power, ALL OF IT. He could’ve EASILY hidden his company’s dark underside once he found out. But instead, Tony was like “Hey um so my company has done some bad things and instead of delegating aid through my money and power, I’m going to personally handle this with a titanium alloy suit and technology that I helped create in a cave while being held captive by a terrorist cell.”

Where was I going with this? OH YEAH.

I will believe in TonyxSteve (Stony) for the rest of my life and I will use fanfiction to fill the void of their deaths. Basically, if I lost anyone in the word vomit above, what I’m trying to say is that- Steve and Tony completed each other. They provided something the other needed. Tony needed stability and protection. He needed to feel like he could let go. Steve needed an anchor in the present. Someone lively and opinionated, SOMEONE ADVENTUROUS AND FUNNY, who Steve could smile with and protect. But also. Steve trusted Tony to be a leader as much as Tony trusted him. They had their ups and downs. Trauma and the Accords didn’t help their relationship at all, but should’ve been it for each other. And I honestly believe they would have t h r i v e d.

Honestly I applaud anyone who made it this far. I don’t know where this all came from but I will not apologize✌🏻

I rest my case your honor.

#avengers endgame #steve rogers #tony stark #captain america #iron man #stony #marvel endgame #steve x tony #i will die with this ship #i ship them #rip stan lee

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carol-effing-danvers · 3 years

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Steve Rogers is a Monster

Yeah, that’s a hell of a title, isn’t it? Strap in, it only gets worse from here.

(click here if you’d prefer to read this on AO3)

Forewarning, if you enjoyed the epilogue for Endgame, this particular essay is not for you - and no, I am not bashing the Steve/Peggy shippers, you are beautiful human beings who make the fandom brighter and I’m happy that at least someone in this fandom got the ending they wanted.

Additional warning: if you expect this to be another Civil War debate, you will also be disappointed. There has never been a measurement invented that can adequately describe how much I loathe the verbal dick measuring contest that seems to pass for human interaction between Tony Stark and Steve Rogers in this franchise. It’s not funny or entertaining - it’s exhausting, uncomfortable, and frankly it’s rather lazy writing.

This is about the very specific way that the epilogue in Endgame completely changed the way the character of Steve Rogers can be interpreted, and I don’t just mean the very illogical and contradictory way that time travel is explained, both in the movie itself and the fact that the writers and directors have two completely different views on how that worked out.

I mean that the choice made by Steve Rogers in the very last minutes of that movie alters the way I view each and every one of his actions starting from The First Avenger and that alteration is exactly what I want to talk about, because whether you view it as deserving or not, what Steve does at the conclusion of Endgame was the most selfish thing humanly possible. Time is a thief, but somehow Steve managed to steal even more than Time.

Side note here: I understand that I am a completely biased Stucky shipper, a friend to Barnes and Noble, a Starbucks aficionado - sorry. Anyway, I’ve always believed that Steve and Bucky were destined blah blah blah, but I was never expecting a Stucky ending. Disney wasn’t going to do that, and I knew that, I wasn’t bothered that Steve and Bucky weren’t doing the smoochies by the end. But Bucky’s facial expression during those last minutes was gut-wrenching. Like...I have no idea what kind of cues the script and directors gave him, but in the future, please don’t ask Sebastian Stan to look sad unless you want soul-crushing devastation. It’s not Seb’s fault, his features are just arranged that way - but the fact that the editing staff allowed Sam to be sad though elated to be entrusted with the Shield and Bucky looked like his soul was being physically torn out of his body was an… interesting choice.

Other side note: if you’re writing about time travel, I’m begging y’all to get your facts straight. Or just don’t write about time travel. It almost always sounds better on paper than it does on screen and it means that you’ve opened doors to more questions than you’ve probably got the answers for. I know this was about trying to set up the idea of the multiverse, I get that, but there were better and less messy ways to do that, and I know that because I’ve done it before. @Marvel: Let me write you a six-way orgy you fucking cowards~

By going back in time, Steve robbed Peggy of the future that would have been hers - not only that, he’s robbed her of even the chance of making the choice between those futures, because you honestly could not tell me with a straight face that Steve told her the complete truth of what he had done and she would be okay with him alternating the very course of the future. It doesn’t help his case that he has a history of not disclosing truths that he knows will be painful or inconvenient for other people in his life.

He robbed his loved ones - Sam, Bucky, Wanda - of the years they would have spent with him. Sure, he ‘came back’ after Peggy passed away, but they are adults in the prime of youth who knew him sixty years ago in his own time and he is an old, old man who has lived an entire life completely separated from them. He is practically a stranger with a name they know, but a history that no longer belongs to any of them - not even his oldest friend. They have him back, but judging from his age, they’ll be lucky to get even ten more years with him. Assuming of course, that any of them can stand to speak to him - I certainly couldn’t blame them if they tell him to go to hell and take his dad jokes with him.

Steve has stolen away their friend and dropped off an elderly and dying near-stranger in his place, and this is treated by the writing (and the majority of the acting) as a wild and unexpected but not tragic event.

Is it really that unexpected, though?

I recall seeing a Game of Thrones essay on Daenerys across my dash (I’m sorry, love, I don’t recall who you are since it’s not a fandom I’m in, but if someone knows who wrote that, please post the link!) which detailed how her ending in the series was foreshadowed many times by her penchant for bloody killings and her habit of surrounding herself with her own fawning friends.

Months after reading that, I had the thought: though Steve is never really shown thinking about Peggy after Civil War, except in a few scattered scenes in Endgame, was this foreshadowed? Whether you believe that his actions are justified or not, what Steve does is still, in the end, selfish at its very heart, and Steve Rogers is not a selfish person.

Oh no, my dear friends and readers. Because taking this action has solidified and clarified Steve Rogers as the biggest and most selfish asshole in this whole universe.

Steve does not do the right thing, Steve does the thing that will most make him feel better. The fact that this often happens to be the right thing in the end is more the result of happy coincidence than any special sort of moral authority that the man holds.

Rescuing Bucky Barnes and his fellow captives in a prisoner of war camp from being experimented on by an insane Nazi eugenicist? That was not a moral stand, that was endangering himself, Peggy Carter, and Howard Stark because he couldn’t handle the reality of his best friend being killed in war.

Sacrificing himself by putting the Valkyrie down in the Arctic Circle? That was not about sparing human lives, that was about Steve seeing his friend die right in front of him and not being able to deal with the grief. There were ways he could’ve prevented the plane from killing people without killing himself.

Trying to make Bucky remember who he was? And later on, saving him from the government agencies who wanted to hunt him down? Although, arguably, that last one is also just good common sense - Steve was already shown that government agencies could and were corrupted by HYDRA and he’d also seen how dangerous the Winter Soldier could be when unleashed.

Steve did, I think, truly believe that this was the right thing to do, but it was also about keeping his connection - his very last, since Peggy had descended into dementia caused by Alzheimer’s before she ultimately died - to a past that for him, was only months or years ago, rather than decades. In some ways, this is completely understandable - Bucky might be the very last person left alive who truly knows who the real Steve Rogers is, because the rest of these people only know Captain America and we are consistently shown through multiple movies how uncomfortable this makes him.

This gets...considerably less and less understandable as we are shown Steve’s growing relationships with Natasha, Sam, Wanda - even Sharon, though she barely gets any screen time and they share the most awkward kiss I’ve ever seen - and indeed, what might be the most uncomfortable kiss in cinema history.

Side Note 3: This is made even more awkward by the director’s choice to have two of Steve’s friends watching them the whole time - seriously, who even does that? Why would you make them do that? Only sociopaths make out with their friends staring at them like that. It’s so fucking creepy - and don’t even get me fucking started on the fact that she’s also apparently his own niece. AHHHHH!

But we are shown, over and over again, that Steve is capable of building close meaningful relationships with people in the present. They don’t know his whole history, but they do know Steve Rogers rather than Captain America and they care about him deeply.

Side Note 4: Notice that I don’t count Tony Stark among those people - despite this strangely persistent narrative that the various writers and directors tried to sell to the audience, Tony and Steve were not friends. They were never friends. They were colleagues at best, but these were two men who neither liked nor understood each other very well, but had to work together. And sometimes that’s okay, too. (Oh dear, I just gave the Stony fans a fit too, didn’t I? Sorry, guys. Enemies to Lovers is a great trope, I support you!)

But let’s set aside Steve’s gross betrayal of the people who loved him. We’ll also ignore the question of whether the motive for these good actions has tainted the actions themselves. Because even without questioning these, the conclusion of this story arc still transforms Steve into the biggest monster this franchise has.

The very fundamental way that the writers and directors can’t agree on how the time travel mechanics in their own story work mean that Steve has just done one of two things and they range from shady and very questionable to absolutely fucking horrific.

The first, that he’s created his own alternate universe to exist in, is morally dubious at best. Even the people who support this theory and liked the ending seem to feel that it wasn’t necessarily a ten out of ten on the moral goodness spectrum. They’ll say things like ‘he deserved to have his happy ending’. Even that phrasing seems to acknowledge that doing this was the opposite of the right thing. It just considers doing the wrong thing as being justified rather than horrifying.

But let’s examine this first idea for a minute - even this, the more innocent of the two implications, means that rather than really processing his grief or dealing with the repeated tragedies and losses that have occured in his life, even as he was running group therapy sessions and grief counseling, Steve Rogers chose to escape his current life by creating an alternate universe that specifically allows he himself to live out his own fucking fantasies of the way his life should have turned out.

That, in case you are not aware, is wildly fucked up. I thought I was playing pretty fast and loose with Steve’s characterization when I turned him into an extremely polite serial killer but as it turns out, I clearly just wasn’t setting the bar high enough, because that’s somehow even more fucked up than being an undercover child soldier with a small sadistic streak.

Hm, and now I feel I should have been more creative there...

The second, and even more horrifying option, is that this older Steve Rogers has been in this world the whole time, watching as things unfolded just as we’ve seen over the past decade, taking ‘the slow way’ through time.

Side Note 5: I do kind of understand why you would do it this way, because that’s really cool and shocking when you say that! Until you think about it for longer than three seconds and suddenly you realize…

Everything that has happened here, every tragedy and downfall these people experienced, happened because Steve Rogers lived his happily ever after with his beautiful wife and did absolutely nothing to stop it. He got to fuck Peggy Carter and watched as his wife built an empire of intelligence networks, knowing that her efforts were completely in vain because her agency was rotten to the core and he never told her.

Every horrifying act committed by HYDRA under the guise of SHIELD was permitted through Steve Rogers’ negligence. And that’s just the wider big-picture worldview, large and shocking, but not personal.

What about the people that Steve claims to actually care about?

This means that Steve lived his whole life in contentment with his wife and children while his best friend was physically and psychologically tortured for over seventy years and just...let that go.

He allowed one friend to murder another in the nineties, when the Winter Soldier was sent after Howard and Maria Stark. Then their child was being advised by a greedy self-interested warmonger who paid terrorists to drag him off to be tortured and slaughtered, and Steve did nothing about that, either.

Bruce Banner was exploited, experimented on, and made into a monster against his will in the failed pursuit of recreating what was done to Steve, resulting in billions of dollars in damage and dozens or even hundreds of lives lost, and Steve allowed that to happen, too.

Like Bucky Barnes, Natasha Romanov was physically and psychologically tortured for others to use her as a living weapon - except that this was probably happening to her since early childhood, and a man her future self loved and trusted implicitly did nothing to save her from this upbringing.

The Maximoff twins are shown to have not wealthy but loving parents who are murdered in front of them and they both endure days of laying in the rubble of their ruined apartment, wondering if the bomb in their living room would go off and kill them. Later, they are taken in by HYDRA, experimented on, and recruited as child soldiers to the cause when they show signs of having supernatural powers. They start a series of events that result in the destruction of a major city and the loss of what is probably thousands of lives. Pietro is murdered while trying to help the Avengers to stop this, and Wanda suffers the loss of the very last living person she loved. None of these things seem to have bothered Future Steve.

Steve “I can’t sit on the sidelines when I see a situation go sideways” Rogers, planted himself on that fucking sideline and observed for nearly eighty years as friends, colleagues, and his own wife were lied to, brainwashed, tortured, vilified, and hunted down like animals.

And then there Steve Rogers himself - not the Endgame Steve Rogers, the Steve Rogers who brought down a Nazi plane and will lie beneath the ice for seventy years while everything he knows disappear (mostly) innocent of these horrors, the life he would’ve lived stolen from him by a stranger with his name and his face from another universe.

What I’m saying here is that if you consider this idea for any amount of time, it took Steve Rogers less than ten minutes to become the most evil and disturbing figure in the entire MCU, only (not really tho) contested by Thanos himself.

Gross and poorly reasoned libertarian ethics aside, Thanos genuinely believes that he did what he did for the sake of the entire population. It’s made fairly explicitly clear that Steve didn’t do this for anyone but himself.

Call me crazy, but if everyone you know needs to suffer and multiple planet-wide devestations have to happen in order for you to get your happy ending, you might be the bad guy.

Maybe I’m just old-fashioned?

#forever bitter about what they did to steve #steve rogers #captain america #the avengers #marvel

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smol-bean-buchanan · 3 years

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okay so, the basis of Loki is that he messed up the timeline and has to help fix it. what i’m wondering is, what did they (or do they) plan to do to steve? he messed up the timeline big time when he stayed with peggy; and he doesn’t (didn’t) have to face any consequences, but loki does? idk it doesn’t make much sense to me ;-;

note: i apologize for like the gazillionth time. i know i promised to make these short, but i can never help it, lmao. thankfully ya girl finally found out how to use the “keep reading” feature on mobile, so here’s to saving both of us the headache of seeing my long-ass incoherent thoughts on the dash. 👍🏼

i’d honestly be surprised if they mentioned steve’s case at all. i feel like marvel is so focused on setting up a new story arc that we’ll probably get a cheap excuse or simply nothing at all. my hunch is that if they do decide to address it, it’ll be something along the lines of “steve rogers was a righteous hero, and loki is, well, loki, they’re each getting what they deserve” kind of thing. not the best-worded scenario, i know, but you get the picture. i get deeper into it below.

let’s start with loki. it actually makes sense that the tva is harsher on him since the series centers on 2012 loki. 2012 loki is still a pretty vindictive person following the events of the first thor and avengers films, so of course he’s gonna pose as a bigger threat than the loki we knew who went through a slow but sure character growth. aside from mobius making it a point to call out loki’s backstabbing habit, it’s also literally his title as the “god of mischief” to fuck things up, so him being a problem for the tva doesn’t really come out of nowhere. based on the trailer/teasers, it actually opens up the nice possibility of his character growth coming sooner in that particular timeline, so working with the tva could maybe be beneficial for him? heavy emphasis on “maybe.”

anywho, moving onto steve. something that kinda irks me is how it’s never been canonically answered if steve’s decision to stay with peggy in the past had any lasting effects on that particular timeline. i know theories have been thrown around and the russos have put in their two cents during interviews, but my clown-ass has still hoped for a solid answer as to what the fuck happened. for now, here’s my own hot take:

in endgame, we learned how timelines/realities could be drastically altered by a single interference. in the context of endgame, taking an infinity stone would cause serious damage to the timeline from which it came. that’s the whole reason why the ancient one refused to give banner the time stone from her timeline to use in his. she believed his intention was simply to take and didn’t give in until banner reasoned that returning the stone actually erases the possibility of creating the harmful timelines she dreaded. the key takeaway here is that returning saves the timeline.

after the final battle, steve goes back in time and returns all of the infinity stones to their respective timelines, saving them from any danger. i’m gonna assume that the tva was fully aware of what was going on at this point but decided not to interfere because they knew 1.) the stones would be returned and 2.) it was for the good of each of those timelines, including (and most importantly) the main one. this goes into why i don’t think the tva would’ve done anything about steve’s decision to switch timelines — in the end, steve returned to his own timeline. sure he probably only did so to give sam the shield, but in the process, similar to the infinity stones, it’s likely he actually saved the main timeline from a drastic change with his return, so the tva let him off the hook.

i wasn’t too familiar with the tva in general before it was announced that they’d play a big role in the series, but from my brief research, they don’t seem to interfere with good will-driven situations, so maybe i’m not too far off? (narrator: she was, in fact, too far off. and a dumbass for thinking she wasn’t.)

idk. that’s my take. it makes no sense, i know. i’m sorry. it’s 1 am. do take all of these thoughts with a grain of salt.

side note, i think it would’ve been cool to introduce the tva in endgame, if they summoned tony the second he figured out that time travel was possible. like, wouldn’t it be funny if they just came to him and said “listen, we know it’s to save the universe and all, but if you fuck it up, we fuck you up, capisce?” and left lmao. god i need to sleep. g’night.

#it’s been a hot minute since i’ve answered questions maybe that’s why i rambled too much lmao #marvel #mcu #marvel studios #loki #loki series #loki laufeyson #loki odinson

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thehollowprince · 3 years

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I have truly grown to hate shipping. Between every fandom having at least one ship that ruins it for everyone, to people fetishizing mlm relationships, to queerbating, which is a serious issue when it happens, being turned into a buzz word thrown around for whenever two straight (usually white) men don't bang when they want them to, it's just become a shit show. It's no longer a fun fandom thing. It's entitled fans, that throw temper tantrums, and sometimes even send death threats, because they didn't get what they want. I hate it.

Oh, you're preaching to the choir!

I've said this multiple times over the last few years, but shipping culture is ruining fandom for so many people. Far more often than not anymore, if you were to enter a fandom space for a show or book or movie, because you thought the premise was interesting or you loved the story, only to find that all the majority of that fandom space cares about is the ships... be they canon or not. That's all anyone seems to care about anymore.

Take The Falcon and The Winter Soldier as a recent example. The storyline was good (if a little heavy on the propaganda) but if you were to go through the fandom tags, most of what you'd see is people gushing about Sambucky and how they were so in love over and over and over again. Now, I know not everyone was doing this in a malicious way, or even trying to make that the center of what the show was about - we were just working with what we were given - but the amount of people intent on ignoring the relationship that Sam and Bucky had on screen in order to prop up the one created by the fandom was still a lot. Hell, it even got to a point by the second episode where many fans were accusing Marvel of "queerbaiting" them, tossing out the word as a means to invoke an emotional response and get people to side with them on this issue that wasn't an issue.

I even made a post about how it wasn't queerbaiting and how tossing that word out whenever fandom was inconvenienced was doing more harm that good.

They did the same thing with Stucky, focusing more on the fanon relationship than anything that actually happened on screen between the two of them. They took that one line "I'm with you til the end of the line" and made it their catchphrase, repeating it so much that I wanted to scream.

The thing that made it all the more frustrating was the fact that I liked those ships. I liked what was there between Sam and Bucky, or Steve and Bucky, or even Steve and Sam, but I couldn't go into a fandom space to talk about those characters without the conversation quickly being diverted to the ships themselves. I could make a post right now about Sam's arc in TFATWS and how he went from rejecting the shield and mantle of Captain America to embracing it and actively taking both by the end, and it would quickly be taken over by the thought of how instrumental Bucky was to all of that and how he motivated Sam and so on and so forth.

And that's not to say that those things aren't true, but sometimes I just want to talk about a singular character without bringing shipping nonsense into it.

Same thing happened with the Buddie (and to a lesser extent, Tarlos) fandom. I like both Buck and Eddie on 9-1-1, but whenever you mention either character, all the fandom does is scream about how they're queerbaited because these two are going at it on screen. Oliver Stark, the actor who plays Buck, recently deleted his entire Twitter because of the shippers that were tweeting at him and in his DMs, talking about how Buddie had better be canon by the end of the season.

That's not healthy!

Let's talk about Teen Wolf for a minute, as I usually do when this topic comes up. For years, even to this day, people are convinced they were queerbaited with this show when it came to the ship of Sterek. A ship created between two characters that hardly shared any screentime in the first season (and even less when you take Scott out of the picture) that somehow took over the fandom. It took over the fandom to the extent that they started making things up, either scenarios that happened "off screen" (Stiles helping Derek look for Boyd and Erica/Stiles hanging out with Peter playing chess) or even assassinating characters ("Scott is a bad friend") all in order to make their ship more palatable, especially for the "fans" who relied on blogs for this content and never actually watched the show.

Hell, I saw this...

... today, not even two hours ago, almost four years after the show ended, and six years after one half of this ship left rhe show. The shipping got so bad, consumed the fandom to such a degree, that they have utterly convinced themselves that they were the victims of this whole thing, all because a ship that they made up didn't happen on screen. The way they throw around the word queerbaiting, completely ignorant of its meaning and how harmful it is when it's actually done, all while ignoring the canon gay characters of this show is just further proof how how shipping has changed fandom.

Its no longer about just liking a thing, it's become this whole thing that some people have made into their entire personality.

It's why I always hesitate to call myself a shipper, or to say that I ship something, because the immediate connotation when someone says that is that that's the only reason why they're here.

Shipping Culture is the Death of Fandom.

#shipping culture is the death of fandom #queerbaiting #i really wish people would learn what those words mean before they throw them around like confetti

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thechildofstark · 3 years

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The Problem With Civil War

Civil War was supposed to be a Captain America movie. It was not a Captain America movie.

However.......

The problem with it being a Cap film is that Steve (+ his team) are supposed to be the ultimate good guys. In all the previous Hero Title films (Iron Man Trilogy, Thor Trilogy, Etc.) the guy whose name is on the poster is the guy the audience is supposed to root for. However, because of CA:CW’s marketing and story arc, it was very much a Steve & Tony / Steve vs. Tony film, while trying to simultaneously portray Tony as a secondary character.

This post isn't about Team Cap or Team Iron Man.

The catalyst for the story of Civil War is...........interesting. (in the comics, its different. and a whole lot easier to understand the reasoning of both sides of the argument. but that's a post for another time.)

Tagging/registering/tracking every mutant/mutate/superhero/powered person is objectively a very bad idea. but so is running amok with no supervision in other countries and destroying property whilst literally wearing the American flag.

There are big problems on both sides.

The issue I find most people have with Tony is that they find him an entitled sellout who only cares about himself and that he committed war crimes, and the problems I find most people have with Steve is that he defended a baby Nazi and went on an violent international rampage in direct violation of the UN because his dead terrorist ex-boyfriend may or may not have murdered a whole bunch of people.

Ooof.

The main reason I think people get very annoyed/attached a specific side is because they are still projecting the characterisation from the earlier movies.

Iron Man 1 and The First Avenger? I love them. No notes.

Obviously yes there are issues in-universe but these are flawed characters with complicated issues and stories and so on, and I like them that way.

If I wanted a Nice Unproblematic Superhero I’d rewatch the Christopher Reeves Superman films. That is not why I am here today.

But by the time we get to Civil War, Tony and Steve have become caricatures of the ideals that they represented, so that the studio can make a movie.

Morally, Steve is in the right. Legally, Tony is in the right.

Ethically? I don't fucking know, they both suck equally in that regard.

Okay to be fair, Tony does try to help Steve like.........so often in the film. Because Steve is the Protagonist and he is Right even though half his actions don't actually fit with his previous characterisation/character arcs/basic human logic.

CA:CW was supposed to be a movie about Steve Rogers. But it failed in the single regard that the story wasn't about him. Even other Hero Title movie, the main character either does something, or has something done to them, and then they react to the situations and there are gratuitous explosions and a life lesson and probably a kiss near the end. But this film had the kiss nearer to the middle ew Sharon why and while plenty of shit got blown up, plenty of civilians and local law enforcement also got mashed by/because of the title character.

That is not how the lead in a superhero movie is supposed to behave.

And the film also continues down the general path of giving Tony shittier and shittier character arcs. The war he behaves in his own movies vs the avengers films? it’s a complete values dissonance. It is literally not the same character. Probably the closest to consistency we get is Iron Man 3/Age of Ultron but even then the differences are pretty startling. At the beginning, Tony was, idk, a realistic if fictional person. But the time we get to CA:CW all we have is an avatar for the writers to manipulate, damn character consistency, damn reasonable behavior and logic and everything that the audience has been told about him in the past.

Same with Steve. Heck, same with everyone in the entire damn movie. Barely anyone acts or reacts in a way that either A) previous behavior would suggest, or B) an actual human person would act or react.

Yes. I know. It’s fiction. I can suspend my disbelief.

But like........damn they fucked Clint and Natasha over.

The creators were trying to recreate a well known and well liked comic book story arc, capitalize on the growing divide in parts of the fandom over preferred characters/character ideologies, and do so without using the expanded universe and added context which made the original comic book arc so fucking good.

They tried to split the Avengers in half, only to realize that they had split the Avengers in half, and then when Infinity War came along, they basically had to write a plot where both sides did their thing without sharing a single second of screen time together, because the whole -

S: you tried to kill my best friend

T: he killed my mother

S: actually he was brain washed

T: but you knew and didn't tell me for years

S: well I was worried you would react badly

T: I wouldn't have

S: you literally tried to kill him

T: yeah I'm sure you be totally fine if you saw your parents being violently murdered and the guy was right there and your teammate lied about it and you were very sleep deprived to boot

- drama would start up again.

ANYWAY

the point is, I used to really like both these characters - I still like the comic book versions tho - but then they got way fucked over. I'm extra salty about Steve, because this was supposed to be his movie but loads of the screen time was given over to other shit and he literally commits so much crime and murder and has absolutely zero moral or emotional consistency. especially when it comes to Bucky and Wanda vs. everyone else.

Also with Tony, there is so much of an issue with Telling vs Showing vs other characters in-universe opinions of him I genuinely don't even know what the creators want me to feel about him anymore.

uuuuururhrhrhrhrhrhrhghfjjhdhjf.

tl;dr -

I saw this movie like six years ago and the way I feel about it has changed a lot over time. I used to be team iron man, could you tell? But the basics of it is this should have been an Avengers movie if it had to exist at all, there are so many cool Captain America stories worthy of being put to film, and this really wasn't the most perfect option. Civil War has so many problems, and I can even begin to try and list them here.

But I'm making this post because I just followed a really cool blog who happens to hate on Tony a bunch (I don't really mind consciously) but that annoyed me out of habit, so I started examining why I liked him as a character, and it mainly boiled down to A) some of the comics are cool, and B) CA:CW said I had to pick a side and Steve did so much dumb shit I just went with the easy option.

the blog doesn't seem to be a huge fan of Steve either.

my current stance is that they both got fucked over and if you want some solid positive Marvel content go read Runaways, or the Hawkeye comics.

The Hawkeye comics are the best.

#literally only one person is going to read this #anti tony stark #anti steve rogers #pro Tony stark #pro steve rogers #cacw #civil war #captain america civil war #marvel #disney #mcu #hawkeye #clint barton #natasha romanov #wendy mayomoff #bucky barnes #marvel comics #team cap #team iron man

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dexi-green · 3 years

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Okay so wrap up thoughts for ep. 4:

Where is Zemo? Do not let this man loose. Also bless marvel for releasing the longer cut of Zemo dancing earlier 🙏🏽

We love the Dora. However I wonder if the arm thing was a gag or if it’s going to come back. I could definitely see Buck having some questions and beginning to wonder whether they actually freed them or just put him under Wakanda’s control with a longer leash. He obviously has reason to be skeptical about people’s intention with him (see; how Zemo used him) I can definitely imagine them explaining that it was impossible to wipe out the WS controls but rather they just changed them and just never intended to use them, making him a sort of unintentional sleeper agent White Wolf for Wakanda. He is clearly very thankful and grateful to them, and is very close to the Dora, especially Ayo, so I could see that distrust being a good future character arc. But I stand by that with T’Challa in charge they would never seek to take advantage of Buck in that way. Also I was never a HUGE fan of Stan’s acting, I felt he got too hyped up for just brooding, like he was good but not Oscar worthy as some on here tried to say (you can just say you think he’s hot, you don’t have to lie about his acting to justify your adoration of him and watching his whole filmography, it’s okay I promise), but that scene at the beginning was actually amazing. I love the change between fear to relief and realization. Chef’s kiss.

As I mentioned several times, I love that this show is carefully exploring warring ideals, and actually saying them pretty plainly. It’s giving me what Civil War could’ve been. In Civil War there was just too many blatant misunderstandings and things that could’ve been cleared up if the Avenger’s didn’t share one (1) brain cell and it somehow ended up with Peter Parker who had homework to do. In this show, the ideals come from very understandable different perspectives, different lives lived. I know I want a conversation, but that alone won’t truly solve this like it would’ve in Civil War. It comes from very real criticism of our very real govt and society which I thinks helps cement this so much more in reality in a way that isn’t boring to watch like some other comic things that try to be gritty and realistic. The only part that has taken me out so far was the so very subtle cop scene in the second episode, which leads me into my next point

ISAIAH BRADLEY! Loop his story back in, let’s get some backstory and information and all that good stuff. Obviously Isaiah has made it pretty dang clear he wants nothing to do with any of this but obviously that’s not gonna happen, and it’ll be a tremendous waste of an absolute amazing and groundbreaking story to just bring Eli in at the end in some shoehorned way or something. Isaiah needs to be a part of whatever solution this story/season comes to. I’ve seen a theory floating around about either Isaiah being Wakandan (either like killmonger with one or both of his parents being from Wakanda, or more distantly) or perhaps Erskine’s secret ingredient for his serum was derived from the heart shaped herb (which would’ve made Cap White Panther 😬) which I think would be an interesting way to completely tie in Wakanda but perhaps a little unnecessary, specifically the first theory, we don’t need every future black person in the MCU to be secretly Wakandan. I just need his story to be more prominent then it has so far. It’s very important and not something that should just be a basically D grade side plot at this point.

I feel like we have shifted away from much focus on Sam. But I feel like the focus has pulled more on Zemo, Karli, Walker and Buck. Like Sam is doing what he needs but we aren’t getting as much insight into him as we did in the first episode. Which is why I think I liked his talk so much with Karli. We went back to his history of counseling and got to see how it uses it, how he calms down a situation, and his own insight into Karli’s ideals, he agrees but wants to go about it in a different way. We have constantly seen him offering help to others, but hasn’t really received much in return. I feel like now every time the shield comes up it’s just Bucky being all pissy that Sam gave it away which really turns me off his character. Sam already explained that maybe he made a mistake, but also Buck is so set in his way and his ideation of Steve that he can’t for a second consider Sam’s side. Like at this point it’s getting kind of annoying how Buck is being with Sam about it. I want more insight into Sam’s feelings about Steve, and Cap, and all that. Hopefully these last couple episodes with shift the focus back. At this point I feel I know more about Karli and John as people than I do Sam and that’s not great considering the title of the show. This was one of my earliest concerns for the series when it was announced, that it was going to focus too much on Bucky who has had his story almost front and center for almost all of the Cap films, they almost all in some part revolve around Bucky. Perhaps I need to rewatch and there has been some bits of Sam’s I haven’t appreciated enough, but it feels unbalanced, not in favor of him.

Sharon is being sketchy I fear. I do kind of like the idea that she is the power broker, but it’s hard to wrap my head around her threatening Karli like she has been. I mean she obviously has changed a lot, but if she is the power broker her motives have to be something different than what she is trying to lead people to believe. I think what’s more possible is her working for the power broker or perhaps working for/as the power broker as a cover for Fury or some other person/organization. She’s worked undercover for Fury before, she is obviously loyal to him, which might’ve changed since she talks to much about being abandoned by everyone, but I don’t know. It’s obvious something else is going on with her character, and while I love if she had just pivoted to this crime lord role, I just think of her speech at Peggy’s funeral and her loyalty to Cap and Fury in TWS. It’s possible she flipped on a dime like that because everything done to her and what she’s been through, and it may be too predictable for her to have the exact same storyline as TWS but who knows... that or she’s a skrull, always a possibility, can’t be too careful.

John Walker is clearly becoming the actual Anti-Cap. They are getting storybeats to line up. A ‘good’ soldier, turned propaganda tool, turned govt lap dog, serumed up, best friend dies, then what? Switched on by society? I love the moment with him and the flag smasher. It brought me back to when I was in the theater watching Civil War and I swore Steve was going to chop Tony’s head off with the shield. Steve just smashes the arc reactor of course, but John straight up murders this guy. And people are watching, the world is, people were recording. Definitely some purposeful similarities to our very real recording of police brutality irl. Which makes me think what will the govt response be? Will they spin it and try to get him out of this (which will feel really...weird? With the trial going on rn) or maybe will they abandon him completely and leave him high and dry? Hopefully we will see whoever the current MCU president is (prolly maybe Thaddeus Ross??) speak on it as well as the flag smashers and GRC. Walker is obviously not a good person at heart. I theorized before that he had already been given the serum, which clearly isn’t true so he has just taken it but there is something about his background that needs to be revealed. It has to be more than just “‘we did bad stuff while we were deployed” like... yeah it has a profound and damaging effect on people, but I feel like when he was talking to Hoskins it felt like they were remembering what went down slightly differently. I don’t know why, I’ll have to rewatch the scene. Either way, I think there is some stuff we still don’t know about Walker, something so terrible about him that made the serum change him like that. He was already clearly on edge, feeling insecure about people not giving him the respect he thought he deserved just from putting on the suit and carrying the shield, feeling that same imposter syndrome Sam did/does, and his pride was clearly DECIMATED by the Dora. He has this seeming obsession with super soldiers... he’s just giving weirdo vibes.

One thing I noted is that I think this series is taking apart Steve/Cap and spreading him out over several different people, and having them all pick at and dissect what makes/made Captain America the symbol he was, and what happens when you dig a little deeper. Karli seems to be the embodiment of the kindness/concern for others. She is fighting for the people, to protect them, as Cap was. But she is not holding back and is willing to put everything on the line, but where Cap was putting himself in the line of fire to protect people, Karli is putting others. Buck may be the classic idealism and Steve himself, I’m not 100 sure, but he seems to embody the kind of idea that people need something to put hope in, something to lean on, the idea of true good. He always brings up what the shield means and represents, doesn’t ever actually get specific though which is interesting. This may be because Bucky has a hard time separating Steve from Cap, since he saw the two grow up, when he talks about the shield and Cap he IS talking about Steve, there is no symbol or hidden meaning, just the Steve he knew. He conflates it all together. So I guess he represents whether or not the classic ideals can survive, the idea of hope, and Young Steve. Sam I think could be change. Where change is unwavering, like Cap’s fight for freedom never changed, but also where it is inevitable, in Steve and Cap’s place in a time that isn’t their own. How the idea of Captain America needs to be updated for modern times, or whether it should be thrown out altogether. I don’t know this is all ramblings. I though I had something but it’s almost 5am 😩

I believe we have 2 more episodes left so it’ll being interesting to see what they do with it. Fingers crossed 🤞

#tfatws spoilers #tfatws #tfatws liveblog #marvel #mcu #captain America #Bucky Barnes #Sam Wilson #Zemo #dora milaje #Karli morgenthau #Sharon carter #agent 13 #powerbroker #spoilers #episode 4

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polarb2709 · 4 years

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Romanogers

The post is a long time coming. On May 12, 2019, I said my romanogers post was on its way. It is now August 18th, 2020, in the middle of a pandemic, that I’ve decided to actually write. I don’t know what has taken me so long. I guess between raising a toddler, holding down a job, and trying to advance my writing career, I’ve neglected some of the more, how do I say, fantastical sides of my life, my love for romanogers included.

And I suppose it’s for the best. It’s been over a year since Endgame. We’ve had everyone from the writers to the directors to Scarlett Johansson herself comment on the appropriateness of her character’s ending, which is such shit, to be honest, but whatever. The point is: I’ve had time to think about why my love for Romanogers is so strong and why I felt like there was such a disservice to both characters, and for that, I think my post will be more substantive than if I had fired off right after Endgame. Welp, here it goes…

DO I REALLY NEED TO SAY SPOILERS?

Okay spoiler alert for reading further ahead.

...

Okay.

It’s all about conflict.

What any good script writer will tell you is that conflict is the main road to which plot and character development can be done. It’s the foundation of everything. And the conflict can’t be something minor, either. As any screenwriting book will tell you, it has to be huge: DEATH, FAMILY, LOVE. These major conflicts allow for the greatest growth. There can be external conflicts such as LOTR where most of the character growth is pushed forward by external forces – HELMS DEEP, THE RING, SAURON or internal forces – GUILT, GRIEF, ANGER -- such as the case with Natasha, where much of the conflict is her “Red in her Ledger” that everyone keeps talking about.

This isn’t to say that there are not multiple internal and external forces acting on a character at the same time, but in the case of LOTR much of the character development comes from circumstances they are placed in, and for Natasha – despite all the external forces (Ultron, Thanos) – it was not as significant as her past “RED IN HER LEDGER.” I guess Thanos’s destruction was the only external conflict that propelled her to take “care of her family” but as I’ve noted in previous posts, I disagree strongly with this sentiment.

Conflict also comes from relationships, when two people differ on such fundamental levels that it makes for compelling drama on screen. HOUSE MD is a great example of that. House was ALWAYS in a moral or value conflict with the person he was trying to help, and thus, led to nuanced messages at the end of each episode.

Which brings us to Romanogers. What is immediately apparent and what engages us as viewers is that Cap and Black Widow in Winter Soldier are FUNDAMENTALLY different human beings that are forced to work together. They see in the world in completely different ways, and just because it is cliché (the soldier and the spy mentality) doesn’t make it any less compelling to watch, especially when Chris and Scarlett have such fantastic chemistry on screen. By the end of WS, Cap and Widow have learned and GROWN from one another – Cap can no longer see the world as black and white as he thought it was and BW has to begin trusting and standing for something. The chemistry between them makes it easy for us to want to see more of these two together moving forward. It’s the foundation of not only a good friendship but also romantic relationship. This reflects real life. We want partners not exactly like this, but that build us up, force us to change.

Now compare this to Age of Ultron where out of the blue we are TOLD not SHOWN that BW and Hulk are together. This is fatal flaw numero uno in the romantic relationship – we NEVER got to see it develop on screen, as compared to the two hours we saw Cap and BW share, playing off one another. Joss simply tells us that “hey these two are an item now deal with it.” I would have been amenable to the relationship if we actually watched it play out on screen where the characters differ fundamentally but they don’t: both Hulk and Widow view themselves as monsters, which is sad, but doesn’t make anything compelling. We never get to see how Banner views things like truth, black and white worlds, and choices – all of which were raised by Winter Soldier.

I always thought it would have been fun for Joss to push forward the relationship with Cap and Widow – either romantically or not – in the sense of Steve saying something like: “you’re not a monster, Nat. You’re one of us.” I think that would have cemented the “I would now” comment in WS. Their bond would have deepened. The problem with marvel movies is that there is a different director and a different vision for each movie instead of having a streamlined idea written out that everyone has to adhere to. It’s nearly impossible to adhere to that over ten years, I get it, but once Feige saw Scarlett and Chris’s chemistry on screen they should have stuck with it – not just because it would have been a great romantic pairing but because of their differences become one of the most compelling interactions on screen. Tony and Cap is another example. How compelling are those two when they are in the room together? They differ on so many levels.

By Civil War, Cap and Widow are comfortable with one another, and it’s beautiful when they are put on opposite sides and they check on one another. I thought Civil War was a great set up for the eventual romance between the two. Anyone else think that?

RETCON TIME

I think the saddest thing, above and beyond the fact that we didn’t get much Nat and Steve screen time in Infinity War or Endgame, is that Endgame did a whole retcon of the major character arcs, foregoing the last few movies. That was particularly salient with BW, Hawkeye, Cap, and Thor.

Besides the blatant sexism throughout BWs character arc, Endgame was caught in the trap of trying to tie to many threads together, and instead of staying the course of the character’s current behavior, they reverted back to how everyone was in their original movies. Cap was back like he was in the first avenger despite living much of his life in the modern world and CHANGING in the process. BW was back to her ledger. Hawkeye appears out of nowhere after being COMPLETELY absent in IW.

Why is this important? Because Cap and BW relationship got retconned too. What would have been more interesting and more in line with the last few movies is if Cap and BW went to Vormir together and the two were forced confront their feelings for one another. You see how this relationship now is constantly evolving, as compared to stopping, stalling, restarting again. BW didn’t have any scenes with Hawkeye from Civil War until Endgame. Made no sense. And talk about conflict. You have these mixed feelings toward one another and now one of you has to die in order to save the universe. Putting Steve and Nat in Vormir together would have been such a gut wrenching thing.

This would have also propelled Cap or Nat – but most likely Cap – into another quest/character arc of getting Nat back at all costs.

Why?

Why? Why am I saying this? I really don’t know. I guess I’m constantly disappointed by Marvel failing to capitalize on the potential in front of them. There are so many opportunities that they fall short on. They destroy character arcs, retcon relationships, fail to hold to consistent threads of their stories, and all the while their movies get praised by critics. I think it’s one of the reasons that Martin Scorcese made the comments that he did: in the end, there is no growth, and the growth that is apparent gets ripped from us because some director or some writer has a different take on it.

Bottom line: Romanogers was the biggest relationship ball dropped by Marvel. And it sucks. It just fucking sucks.

#romanogers #capwidow #captasha

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villainelle · 3 years

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☕ + mcu fandom post endgame?

update: uhh not me realising u said fandom after writing a whole ass essay: this fandom has been so divisive since civil war tbh. i wish people would hold the writers a little bit more accountable for their writing than hating on fans who’s characters have done something they don’t like. it’s like, a lot of the uh things that happen in the mcu that people have a problem with is just a case of really bad writing. (see below hhuuhwhuwe)

prev answer: ahhhhhhhh. okay i have a couple of thoughts. so obvs, post endgame marvel is largely tv shows atm. i think....it’s a transparent business decision and a good one, mind you, for marvel lmao. i think there’s several reasons. for it. first and foremost, obvs the avengers have disbanded so there isn’t a new group to carry future movies. secondly, splitting into several tv shows not only allows marvel to launch its own exclusive streaming platform, but ensures more viewers have to watch the shows for the future movies to make sense, y’know?

in terms of my opinions about the shows, atm i’m most surprised by wandavision which i didn’t expect to enjoy. i was worried they wouldn’t pull off the humour and sitcoms but they did a great job acc. i think both shows however suffer from pacing issues, particularly in the last episode where they try to tie everything up and it kinda falls apart bc there are too many antagonists — tfatws particularly struggles with it, i mean what the hell was the 180 turn on john walker in the last ep i’m still so ???? about that whole mess. a bit worried for loki but it’s the only tv show that probably doesn’t impact the upcoming movies as in it’s own alternate timeline.

black widow is still such an insult imo. firstly i dont think its the right place to put in the mcu - ideally you’d want the black widow after catws bc that’s when nat leaked all the shield files and her own past, so it makes more sense for her story to be situated into the timeline at that moment. the whole movie feels redundant given the character’s death has already happened, it’s like...it doesn’t really matter what happens bc u know how she dies anyway, and the emotional impact of it is lessened bc of that. the thing is i get why the russos killed natasha — bc mcu!clint has been so destroyed by....everything idek....there would be so little emotional impact with his death. that does not however mean i don’t still hate it lmao. it truly makes me furious that female characters are so outweighed by male characters in the mcu that the russos managed to kill both the only female guardian, and the only female avenger.

endgame!steve’s arc.....i pretend i do not see it. i really do. i lowkey talked about it on my blog a lot when endgame came out, bc it was sooo regressive in my mind and since the russos set up the rules of time travel to mean things could not be changed without creating an alternate timeline (mind u they broke that anyways.), then what that means for steve is that he had to go back in the past and do nothing for the timeline to continue as it did. (meaning, ignoring his own frozen self, ignoring bucky’s capture by hydra and the soviets, etc, etc). a lot of people hate on aou, and rightfully so in many ways, but that doesn’t change the fact that there were some pretty significant arcs in that movie that people wanna ignore - one of which is that steve has made his peace with being in the present. the avengers are his family, bucky is there as well, peggy has married and has told him to move on, and even his flashback is a kind of horror sequence of pretending “it’s over, we can go home” while people die around him.

for me, i think i miss the early movies so much. the og iron man movie, and catfa and catws, as well as the avengers are my top favourites. i really appreciate those storylines the most bc they exist on their own. once we got into phase 4, and the tv shows, it felt like every movie was an advertisement for the next with the way they threw cameos in. the most obvious being civil war with the spiderman reboot. in fact civil war in general was so redundant when you realise infinity war and endgame are literally gonna be like, “yeah all of that that we just talked about? it no longer stands”, and i mean this both re: the accords, and re: bucky, bc at no point somehow in the following movies do we even get a MENTION of bucky from tony. you’d think with endgame you’d at least have one line. it could have been as simple as tony saying: “we’ll get them back cap, all of them. barnes included.”

send me a ☕️ and a topic and i’ll talk about how i feel about it

#listen i have many thoughts....im sorry this is so long IJWEJIWJIE god the mcu makes me annoyed <3 i pretend civil war does not exist.#answered #replies #robert-deniro

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