#acknowledging the really harmful thing he did nuance is not as hard as people make it out to be if u want u can do that

[oddberryshortcake]

I think a lot of people miss the bits of nuance in Kalim and Jamil in chapter 5.

It’s a shame their loose ends weren’t tied up all that well at all, and they never actually get to talk to each other in this chapter, but you see them starting to understand each other in really subtle ways that I just appreciate.

I think Kalim is a lot more emotionally intelligent than Jamil and way more emotionally intelligent than he thinks he is. He’ll often stop his thoughts by cutting himself off, claiming he doesn’t know if he’s making sense, but he does.

Jamil witnesses Kalim putting in effort to understand and empathize with him in at least two instances in chapter 5.

People criticize Jamil for not talking to Kalim about everything he was going through and how he felt, and Jamil felt like he couldn’t. He was instructed not to as a child by adults. Kalim has a habit of not listening and interrupting him, so he thought Kalim couldn’t possibly understand.

But he was proven wrong; Kalim is starting to understand him, and he wants to understand Jamil.

Jamil never speaks about what he observes, but it’s obvious from his change of expression that he’s finally feeling seen by someone who unintentionally caused him so much misery.

All the adults who told him to ‘understand’ the situation and suck it up, even if it stripped him of his childhood and endangered his life, it was Kalim who actually looked at him and understood him.

Kalim recognized that their situation was complicated and defended Jamil by citing that Jamil had protected him and never seriously harmed him for all of their lives up until his mental breakdown, but he also shelters some of the blame because he did not see Jamil’s suffering until then.

Jamil also figures out that Kalim has protected him in his own way by covering up why Jamil overblotted to their parents so he wouldn’t be punished.

Kalim explains to the prefect that he never realized how much Jamil sacrificed for his success and happiness. He vindicates Jamil’s feelings; he’s letting him be seen, and he’s acknowledging everything that Jamil has been keeping inside.

Jamil was wrong. Kalim can understand him.

I’m still sad we never got a conversation about Jamil admitting this, and they never talk to each other about these things, but I’m sure it’s because it’s hard to.

They’re still a ways away from becoming actual friends, but it’s a start. If anyone is going to free Jamil from servitude, it’s definitely going to be Kalim.

So it’s sad seeing these two being pitted against each other, especially Jamil, when Kalim has been especially empathetic towards him in the story and has the ability to see through his bitterness and resentment.

#twst #twisted wonderland #jamil viper #kalim al asim #twst analysis #Boys im so sorry you're always misunderstood #Kalim isn't stupid he's actually pretty smart in his own kind of way

[haunted-homes]

Intro Post !!

BLOCK IF ON YOUR DNI ! DNI GOES BOTH WAYS !

Hi, Sorry for the really long intro Post !

You can call us Haunt, we are a bodily 19 White Polyfragmented DID system, Physically Disabled, Trans, and Queer! Default Pronouns are He/They/Haunt!

This Tumblr is dedicated to the more problematic sides of our interests or coping mechanisms. We might proxy using emojis under some posts, to avoid using names. Im unsure if we will EVER let littles post here but Regressors or Sliders might. We intend to post Art, Writing, Rants and Vents, etc here. I will add a Disclaimer at the end of this post about my views and nuances about this kind of thing because it is genuinely not black and white to me. Sorry if that makes this intro too long but I wanna be thorough about what my beliefs are so no one gets the wrong idea about us as a person! But aside from that, here's more about us!

MCYT ! Mainly old DSMP, but also Hermitcraft, QSMP, etc etc

Interests Include -

Cookie Run !!!!!

Warrior Cats! Creepy Pasta! FNAF! Mythology! Writing, Art, Music, etc!

The Coffin of Andy and LeyLey

BOUNDARIES !

- You can reclaim slurs around us but only at us if we know each other. We extensively reclaim slurs, but we do not support the use of slurs you cannot reclaim.

- Always ask for consent to flirt, sexualize, etc before doing it because all Alters have different boundaries on this! (That being said, NEVER sexualize our Littles. ever.)

- DMs are open but please don't just send one word, it's hard to read tone or intentions through that and can make us anxious or block you!

- Try to use Tonetags, we are Autistic and really need them sometimes.

- Don't ask for Alters Sources if they don't wanna say. NEVER assume an Alter is like their source, or even enjoys their source. But on that same note, never assume an alter is fully source seperated or wants to Seperate from Source.

- Don't ever ask about our Trauma. We do not owe anyone that information. Whatever information we freely give at one time may be a touchy subject at another time, and we will never put your curiosity before our comfort.

- We prefer to say Source Memories over Psuedo Memories. Pseudo Memories feels demeaning and invalidating, but it is a fully recognized and studied symptom of DID. Source memories are a REAL symptom, it's just a different name than the clinical term. (We also do not like or use ANP/EP)

- We fully believe in System Accountability but all Alters are still seperate people. Some of us have different opinions, ideologies, Religions, etc. That's Normal. That does not mean we collectively support anything damaging to communities we are apart of or especially aren't. I can genuinely and proudly say ALL Alters are Anti-Racist and Anti-Conservative Fucktards.

DISCLAAAAIMER ♡

I like FANTASY tellings of Dead Dove Content. Basically, Proship, Zoo, Necro, shit like that. It should never be misconstrued that I would ever practice those outside of fantasy or fiction, the idea makes me sick.

Maybe one day I will outgrow this, or learn to cope better, but that is not today. I'm going to have my safe and consensual fun, and stick to my own moral code as I do infact have one, and just go from there.

I wanna also make it clear I don't really support MAPS/NOMAPS/AAMS at *all*. That's really weird and creepy as fuck and not the same as what we do/like in the SLIGHTEST, as again, this is all Fantasy/Fiction.

And I do acknowledge that Fiction can affect Reality, it can affect My reality, and I can control how I let it. If I'm gonna be plagued by Problematic shit, I'm gonna make it fun instead of agonizing, but I am not delusional enough to let it affect my judgement on following laws and doing no harm. I don't support or consent to any contact with minors on this account.

TW to things you may find on this Account.

Imagery of Raw Meat - I'm obsessed with aesthetics and Meat and stuff, so I'll probably use it a lot.

NSFW Animal Content (Petplay, Furry, etc)

NSFW Proship Content + SFW Proship Content

CNC / NC / DC Content

Necro Kink

Possibly SH or ED content (only in talk, Headcannons, or Fics, this specifically will ALWAYS be tagged and censored)

Again, just to reiterate. I only enjoy these concepts within the realms of Fiction and Fantasy.

DNI -

- Minors - Anyone under 18.

- Endo's / Endo Supporters

- Fakeclaimers

- Anti LGBTQIA+ (This includes Terfs, Anti Neopronouns, Anti Xenogenders, Anti Mspec / 'Contradictory' Identities, etc)

- Racism / Anti Semitism

- MAP/NOMAP/AAM

- Pro-Contact philia havers

- Transracial, Transabled, Transage. (I know there's nuance here but it's not the kind you weirdos think. Please research Mental Regression and BIIDS for the love of fucking christ.)

#proship #proshippers please interact #proshipper safe #problematic ships #poppyblr #poppytwt #🌈🍖 #comship #comshipper #problematic

[bearlythere]

i watched barbie last week, and finally came around to writing a review.

this movie validated all women's common experiences in two hours. i just felt so seen. 

we've all be harassed on the street, had a ken who thought we were in love with them, been told that we were "too emotional" for having valid feelings, had our property (intellectual or not) taken over by a ken and used as his, and a ken that thought that he was and could do better than barbie (stereotypical or with a career). 

all the above happened to me within the past year. being a student studying in a male dominated major i felt the effects of it and everytime i said something about it most people just brush it off as me being "emotional" and like it felt really liberating to see the movie actually acknowledge the hardship women face

like in the past year alone i really felt like i felt the full brunt of just males trying to ruin my life just because i try to exist and be a computing barbie 😭so it really felt so. good.

and i broke down realising that ken, like little boys, didn't know what masculinity and patriarchy was before he entered the real world. seeing our lives made him like that. they learn to find displeasure from women who's just trying to live their lives peacefully because that's how the world around them worked. and while it's not an excuse for them to act this way, it probably is the reason why certain men act the way they do as well - nobody has shown them that their actions hurt us, not as women, but as human being with feelings and emotion. 

while some might have been lucky enough to not experience the events barbie's and women experienced in the movie. barbie's aim was never to be a "hell yeah feminism rules" kind of movie, more of a "hey y'all, this is why we have feminism." - and i didn't feel that the movie was supposed to be political. and i think the "harms not portrayed" part some people refer to - barbie literally got her ass whacked by a stranger how is sexual harassment not real, anyways other parts of the movie, the events that happened in barbieland (well, actually kendom), i think was written to be a way where women had some event that happened to them in real life that made them feel the way barbie did. for me it was when ken stole barbie's dreamhouse and made it his mojo dojo casa house, and for me it parallels my ideas for a hackathon getting plagiarised and not crediting me.

some reviews online condem how barbie is shallow by not showing the actual dangerous harms women face (rape, murder etc) just for saying no to men, but i think real and deadly injuries would be hard to portray as well, since mattel probably would like to market barbie to as many people as possible (yes, even kids). i actually think it really did a good job at making people think about their experiences - and if one felt that it was superficial and if it wasn't "real enough", then the connotations and nuances of what females experience daily had just flew over their heads

personally my take on the barbie line was that it was created with good vibes and ideas in mind "girls can do anything they put their minds to! just like boys and literally anybody else in the world!" -- and then it was taken out of context - people started slamming barbie for perpetuating unrealistic beauty standards, being a toy that perpetuated "stereotypical bimbo" stereotypes, and the association of the colour pink with girls because of gender marketing. and personally i went through a sasha phase where i hated barbie and the colour pink because it was associated with being "too girly". so can we then say that society once again, took something wholesome out of hand because we're never satisfied? or was it because barbie and mattel got complacent and stopped improving barbie - creating things like "barbie is a computer engineer that relies on men to fix her code because girls can only design assets" ?

and as the real world is vastly different from barbieland, even though barbie experienced all the horrible things women face in the world, i am glad that the script was written in a way where there was no toxic feminism. barbie doesn't condem the kens or develop hatred for them because of their newfound masculinity (in fact, they were encouraged to find themselves - who they are), which really promotes the real value behind feminism - gender equality where each gender gets equal chances and opportunities and a level playing field. it IS and NEVER WILL BE a battle of the sexes.

#bear watches #barbie #barbie movie #feminism #ken #barbieland

[ziracona]

I know I made a post like this the other day but it would appear Dr. Loomis stans also have a really hard time living with the fact that I personally disagree with them and hate the man.

#this is by far the most /funny/ kind of that message to get when logging on so that’s actually nice in a way #actually what’s /really/ funny is the trying to compare relating the effect Carpenter had extremely documentedly on mental illness & horror #& my personal desire to ignore many of his ableist and bad calls specifically in the name of how fucked that is as cancel culture #lol #Michael myers #personal #halloween #lol like people can and will feel how they feel and that’s theirs. one of my buddies hates Michael for personal reasons that I totally #understand and get & have no problem with (not that it’d be my business to look over their shoulder anyway if not) #but I love when people be like ‘Michael was a monster at age 6 unsavale evil vicious’ #like /that’s a whole human child/. /Please/ go read anything on cognitive development if you don’t understand it that bad #but u can get off Mr. Carpenter’s boot he did a bad exploitative thing and u can love the movies and even him if you want while still #acknowledging the really harmful thing he did nuance is not as hard as people make it out to be if u want u can do that #but mostly this is just nice because it’s like ‘you merely saved me any regret just blocking you on sight had you behaved in a more #gentleman like manner’ & it /is/ p funny #I /am/ vagueing but they’re blocked so they won’t see it to get sad about unless they work around to see anyway and if you intentionally #ignore me blocking you to see what I said u deserve whatever upset you get seeing this #wild people think they get to decide how I personally am gonna feel abt horror characters #and that it’s a personal slight on them if my POV doesn’t line up #sometimes I feel bad about how opinionated /I/ am just internally but then I get messages like this & feel so much better #thank u for that

[hey-haven]

Shenhe is the character Ei should have been

With the release of the new event, Genshin Impact introduced us to a new playable character by the name of Shenhe. She’s shown to be rather reserved, mysterious, and has literally been labeled as homicidal. And yet she’s probably one of the most interesting new characters we had in a long while.

Rest of the post will contain spoilers to Shenhe’s story and the event as a whole.

So Shenhe’s story is very similar to Ganyu in the sense that the former wants to belong somewhere but feels like an outcast no matter where she is. Only difference is that Shenhe specifically wants to belong in human society. We learn that she’s simply a human who grew up with the aptepti after her father tried to sacrifice her to monsters. Reason why he did that was both because he wanted to bring back his dead wife and like a sacrifice was in order blah blah. But also it was because Shenhe has been prophesied to bring harm to everyone around her due to her homicidal tendencies that I mentioned before.

Spoiler alert, she didn’t die. No, instead Cloud Retainer found her, took Shenhe in and raised her.

The general point here is that Shenhe is a person riddled with trauma and generally isn’t exactly a “good” person. I mean I’d argue that having homicidal tendencies makes you at least a tiny bit suspicious but ya know it’s not like not murdering someone is a bare minimum or whatever.

Point is her journey with the traveler is to learn to use the strength and power she has for good and to be able to fit in with the people of Liyue.

I remember seeing some people in TikTok grow worried that, like Ei, Shenhe would go from the badass, homicidal Girlboss into a perfect, for lack of a better term, waifu. And honestly I was worried too considering the sudden switch they did with Ei’s character. But thank fucking Christ, that was not the case.

Yes, Shenhe still learns and grows and tries to be better a person. That’s how a character arc goes after all. However literally the last scene of the event is a small joke about Shenhe literally threatening to kill someone and Paimon going “Oop, she still got a long way to go.” And I’m fully aware that was merely thrown in to be funny, but I’m honestly glad that did.

Joke or not, they do still acknowledge that Shenhe’s journey is far from over. She still has a lot to learn and grow and the adventure she had with the traveler was only the beginning. And regardless her personality doesn’t do a complete 180.

With Ei, she’s introduced as this terrifying, borderline dictator who literally starved her people and took away their very ambitions all for the sake of “eternity”. Even though what she basically wanted was to put her people at a permanent stasis and not grow or develop. It’s stupid, and honestly I think the mistake was making a goddess for something as nuanced and complex as the concept of eternity without having the actual skills to write the character as complex and nuanced as the very thing she represents.

And like yeah they acknowledge with her character quest that permanent stasis is literally impossible and that a society will develop regardless blah blah blah. That’s not the problem. The problem is that the writers tried sooooo damn hard to make Ei redeemable that they take the terrifying leader that she was and reduced her down to some sweet loving dork who can’t cook.

And no matter how many excuses they tried to throw like how the terrible actions was literally just her puppet and not Ei herself (which only makes it worse because then it just paints Ei as super neglectful of her own people), or how it was really the Fatui behind the Vision Hunt Degree (again, only adds to Ei negligence), it doesn’t erase the pain she put her people through under HER leadership.

But no, just have her Fox girlfriend walk in and talk her out of her bedroom and everything is suddenly fine and Ei is actually cute and perfect and sweet and, ya know she still killed Kazuha’s friend. We’re not going to acknowledge that either? No? Alright fine.

My point here is that I am not upset at the fact that Inazuma gets a happy ending, and I’m aware that they also acknowledge that the nation is still working to undo all the trouble and literal oppression it went through but I’m not talking about Inazuma itself, I’m talking about Ei as a character.

They should have kept Ei as cold and scary and ignorant while acknowledging that she will grow and learn eventually. Just not now. And also please for the love of god make her face the consequences of her actions. Shenhe doesn’t have to cause she didn’t really do anything wrong while on her quest, but Ei literally fucked over her people! No, the trauma she experienced in her past doesn’t count nor does her being traumatized excuse her of her actions!

Overall Shenhe is great, Ei actually sucks, and it seems like the writers are only good at their job when they’re not writing for Inazuma.

#long post #short essays #genshin impact #shenhe #genshin shenhe #ei #genshin ei #raiden ei #raiden shogun #liyue #inazuma #genshin liyue #genshin inazuma #character analysis

[alectology-archive]

hey, I don't know where to talk about this so I'm venting to you, I know you have talked about this already, but I really don't like the darklina ship or the people who ship it for that matter because they are constantly defending and glorifying Darkling for the things he has done I know they say that they are not harming anybody with shipping characters that are purely fictional, but you know I remember loving Rhysand from ACOTAR when I was 14 or 13 and thinking the things he had done to Feyre were okay and was for her own good because the fandom shipped them so hard adored Rhys so much but I've now realised how wrong I was about it, I just think that even if these ships are purely fictional they shouldn't be glorified or shipped like this because these YA novels targeted at an audience in the age range of 12-18 and teens are very easy influenced by these novels don't you think fandoms behaving like this are harmful to young readers?

I understand where you're coming from and I definitely feel that adults being involved in fandoms meant for kids and not being careful about the way they interact with said media is an issue. I romanticised a bunch of toxic relationships as a young teen since so many ya books have very little self awareness and pass off abusive relationships 'as true love' so I can also relate and it's basically why I really dislike darklina. 

I don't necessarily think that all the people who ship it are not nice - some of them legitimately just want to theorise about a dark!alina au and they acknowledge that the darkling is a messed up guy - which I don't mind in theory. But it definitely is um, quite a Choice considering all the horrible stuff he's done in the books and especially disgusting because alina's a minor. What's really alarming about an overwhelmingly large proportion of darklina shippers is that they believe he's a good guy who just uses violence to achieve his goals which not only removes a lot of nuance from his character but also grossly understates the extent of his distasteful actions in the books: he abuses several women, grooms and manipulates a bunch of people (a lot of them minors...), actively tries to seduce a minor (while impersonating another teen on one occassion), murders innocent civilians etc to name a few. A lot of these things take place off-page and are slightly toned down in their portrayal because it's a series aimed at teens as young as 12 so I think a lot of people are able to conveniently ignore the fact that the darkling actually really, really sucks (I still stand by the fact that the books makes it pretty clear he's horrible - but we know that fandoms are wacky and choose to ignore parts of canon just because it isn't to their taste).

And it's also kind of really clear at this point that a lot of darklina shippers are attracted to a dark and handsome fictional white boy and use alina as a self insert to live out their fantasies? And basically do alina's character a lot of disservice when they discuss her? It's not even that they choose to ignore how alina is overwhelmingly empathetic and especially protective of people who've never had a voice but that they literally couldn’t care less about her and just want her to be the person who 'fixes' the darkling and saves his tortured soul and like. I don't have to explain this lmfao because this trope is literally the worst thing to exist and there's a lot of abuse apologism involved in it (even that aside alina canonically gives the darkling multiple opportunities to stop being a jerk and he refuses to change. even if he had I don’t think I could’ve forgiven him after what he did to genya and baghra). So yeah! It's annoying and tiring that a lot of people want to ship him and a minor together and try to pass it off as him being so deeply in “love” with alina that he would to tear apart the whole world for her or whatever (which is again false because the only reason he sought her out was to manipulate her into working for him - and when that failed he literally enslaved her to his will). It's in especially bad taste when you consider how leigh's spoken about the darklina dynamic being loosely based on her experiences with abuse.

Eh anyway I didn't expect this to get so rambly and I’m not even sure I answered your question right but tldr: you’re right and I wish people in fandoms would be conscious about the kinds of relationships they ship and especially how they frame the narrative around it. It’s also important for them to be aware of the audience that is consuming the media. 

#again just to clarify #toxic dynamics in ya books are not inherently bad as long as the book acknowledges it!! but I think a lot of ya books fail there and #it's why I see people defending riceman to the death even if he literally drugged and abused feyre #anyway darklina shippers are often really dense and think the darkling is better than mal #and sure book mal sucks but book AND show darkling suck SO much more????????????? #asks #grishaverse #anti darklina #the fandom is especially so insufferable now because of the reylo to darklina pipeline smh #tw abuse #tw grooming mention #alina starkov

[luckyladylily]

Ok I swear this is the last serious thing I'm going to say about the slap.

A lot of the more sympathetic to Will dialogue is along the lines of "Understandable, but I don't condone violence. He could have handled it better." I understand what is meant here in all its nuance. I disagree.

I think we need to consider what we mean by "handling it" here. What are the goals, and what is most important within that set of goals? I think we can all acknowledge that the primary goal here is standing up for and protecting his wife - both from Chris and others who might attack her - and the second goal, really a function of the first goal, is to oppose the kind of bad behavior Chris Rock was openly engaging in.

Ask yourself what other course could he have taken. I mean this genuinely. Think about it for a minute. Come up with two or three.

Now, consider: Would any of those methods of handling it actually achieve either of these goals? Be honest with your assessment.

If he had done an interview after and calmly explained why it was wrong, would anyone care? Would it actually change anything? Would anyone even notice?

If he had approached Chris Rock in private, who was deliberately engaging in bad behavior at the cost of Jada, do we actually think Chris Rock changes his behavior? Do we have any expectations that it will protect Jada in anyway from others? And would it function as a condemnation of this behavior in general?

I don't think anyone reasonable and familiar with the issues could honestly say that they would expect any positive changes from that kind of approach. To be perfectly frank, that isn't "handling it". It's allowing the issue to be swept under the rug and ignored. You could almost consider it complicit in doing so.

So how can you handle it? Well, I can think of no other way than public protest, in this case a public shaming of Chris Rock. Something immediate, something shocking enough that it can't be ignored and communicating how serious the issue is. At the same time you don't actually want to hurt anyone. You want to make sure that even if many ignore it you demonstrate a deliberate, controlled response.

The slap did all these things at once. In particular, the fact that it was a fairly light slap demonstrates that the action was deliberate and controlled. If he had actually caused harm to Chris Rock, such as by throwing a real punch, you could not demonstrate that is the case. This was not an irrational emotional response. It was a rational and appropriate emotional response. I do not know if I could have behaved so rationally in his place.

In a reasonable world the other options we can imagine would make a real difference. We do not live in that world, and I think we all know that. But it's very hard to resist the idea that decorum should override every other concern. The threat of being labeled improper in one way or another, and the extremely harsh consequences of that label, is a threat black people live under their entire lives. The rest of us have been conditioned to enforce that threat to the degree that most of us never even realize that we are an integral part of that power structure. We act as oppressors by instinct.

I genuinely don't think there is a better way Will Smith could have handled it. Our society is not there. If we cannot condone even this extremely minimal altercation I honestly don't think there is a way forward. The social contract is always stacked against the marginalized, and it is especially stacked heavy against black women. It does not allow for upending the status quo. If we are unwilling to support those that step out of the contract when called for we have already given up.

[smolstarthief]

Persona 5/Persona 5 Strikers: Pro-Police or Anti-Police?

Hoo boy... So this honestly has been a LONG time coming on my end because I have seen so much of that debate on social media (Twitter namely) and I can see the points of BOTH sides but there have been moments where it just got out of hand... Especially whenever people tried to put in a more grey/nuanced take only to be slammed and taken out of context. Even repeatedly mentioning the interrogation at the beginning of P5 which, I will admit has gotten tiresome. At least for me, I do still feel for Joker and I wished the game acknowledged his trauma more but there's a thing called, "beating a dead horse" and this is one along with "Haru says ACAB" in Strikers (which was done THREE TIMES in the same arc and it got annoying fast, like shut up already! We get it!). So, let's dive in a little bit:

MAJOR SPOILERS UNDER THE CUT!!!

Persona 5/Persona 5 Royal

Now let me just say I know! Police in Japan are just as bad if not worse than the West and I STILL hate the idea of Makoto wanting to become a cop for such naive reasons (especially with what happened to Sae, her own sister!)... But there are at least some of form of nuances sometimes and by that I mean, I can see what they were trying to do? I do agree that P5/P5S backpedaled SEVERELY by deciding to sweep issues under the rug after addressing them and not continuing from such. In fact I feel like it could have been a hell of a lot better. But P5 did something different compared to previous games and addresses the issues DIRECTLY right at the beginning of said game! It was tense and horrifying, but needed. Of course... They then sweep it under the rug and act like nothing traumatic happened to our protag which is NOT a good look at all and I'm still pissed off about it. In the main game's case, it's portrayed as more black and white with only a SMALL amount of nuance like that cop that was trying to help Futaba when she went out by herself and got lost (which people ignore entirely by the way). So I CAN see where people got the "anti-police" message from... But that's only the tip of the iceberg as it's ACTUALLY more about Systematic Corruption, not exactly or JUST police corruption. Namely in politics with Shido and the Conspiracy (which is apparently still somewhat around in Strikers until Owada's downfall) controlling everything all the way to law enforcement. The force had been basically under his payroll (including the corrupt SIU Director before his death) whether by force or not (mostly not in this case though). Now honestly, the police depicted there are undoubtedly rotten to the core save for a VERY SMALL handful (the cop that was trying to help Futaba which, again, gets ignored by several). Look at the interrogators who ruthlessly beat and drug a minor without any second thought or remorse for example. But again, the black and white narrative the game kept unwittingly doing ended up being to its detriment in a way. I'm not defending those assholes AT ALL! They deserved every punishment given to them! But for a game that goes on about grey morality... It doesn't quite deliver on that. Still though, it does emphasize that it's more of the fault of the whole corrupt system, not just one part of it. There needs to be change and reform which is what our MCs were trying to do in a way (more like inspiring change but still). In the end, it's all about the following:

Corruption and abuse of power.

Again the police depicted in this game were incompetent at best, corrupt at worse with very few silver linings. But it's not just them but rather the one person responsible for the whole mess. Who had them under his payroll? Who controlled them and by extension all of Tokyo? Who was willing to dispose of anyone who "outlives their usefulness" or is perceived as a threat to what he wants (including his own family)?

SHIDO AND BY EXTENSION THE CONSPIRACY

Bottom line: They are definitely a problem but it's not just them.

"But, Joker and his trauma?"

I definitely understand that and still do. I fully believe he has and still has trauma with the police. Easy! But... I do feel like people go too far with it sometimes. It's hard to explain but there have been moments where people either use it as a justification/argument against someone trying to provide a more nuanced view of things or... Dare I say, depict him like a "uwu soft traumatized boi." Like I said, it's hard to explain on my end so feel free to ignore it. Everyone deals with trauma differently so there is STRONG chance that I'm overanalyzing it. I just remember moments where I just feel a little, I guess annoyed? I'm not sure exactly but final thing: I understand what he went through and I can't imagine how long it would take to recover but I hope he DOES overcome it.

"Sae? Akechi?"

Yep, even though their jobs are different, they are by and large members of law enforcement no matter how you spin it. Both were broken in a way. Akechi is pretty easy to explain with how Shido negatively impacted his life but not much about Sae, who dealt with sexism/misogyny at her workplace along with the trauma of her father's (also a cop) death. She no doubt had some idealism only to be hit with the fact that she's gonna have to use underhanded/downright illegal tactics to get by and even rise up the ranks. She, therefore ended up (well, nearly) corrupted herself before coming to her senses. That's honestly one of the BIGGEST REASONS why I felt like Makoto joining the force to become a police commissioner isn't a good, even a downright naïve, idea. I honestly would have been somewhat fine with it if it weren't for that fact among other things. Regardless of her willpower, it will go south fast.

Now... Onto Strikers!

Persona 5 Strikers

Since the game came out and I started playing it, I still feel like the system is still beyond saving, especially when attempting to do it from the inside. But I don't mind the added nuances that P5 didn't do much of. It's still continuing the critiques, just shows more of what does happen within said system and even has an ACTUAL officer (Zenkichi) say, "Yeah, my job sucks, everyone's corrupt, there are much better ways to do things and make a change but not this. I'm only staying because I have a daughter to take care of and it's all I know. I'm no different from them." Was it all handled well? I wouldn't say "yes" (Joker's trauma is BARELY addressed at all of course) but a little better than what P5's narrative did which only addressed the issues but not exactly follow up on them. Now to be fair... In the system, regardless of where you live, any one within it who remotely tries to do something or speak against it either lose their jobs or even go "missing" irl. Those have happened and it's more proof that yeah, it's rotten to the core. There's no denying it but regardless, that's NOT what the game is about at all. At least that's what I feel about it as it's only PART of the narrative. I think Zenkichi puts it best here:

Speaking of Zenkichi... Oh boy... Now I definitely understand some of the criticisms with him but honestly, he was the best written (PT) character I've ever encountered! He was honestly the perfect representation of those that genuinely want to help and do good, only to be held back by an extremely harsh reality. It was already hinted at with Sae but here? It 100 percent confirms just how harsh and even cutthroat it can be if it could break someone's idealism so badly. Even Kaburagi of all people thinks the same thing Zenkichi said:

Then there's his past and it's a tragic one! But let's look more at the decisions he ended up making:

While it was no doubt done to protect his daughter, he ended making a selfish decision along with a selfless one (which was brilliant!) with not only allowing the cover up of his wife's death and denying justice for her, but also ruining an innocent person and their family's lives.

It's horrible, but also... There's a grey area/nuance as with the rest of his character. It was both understandable, but also wrong as he, as Akane's Shadow puts it:

He sacrificed his values, his morals, all for the sake of having a peace of mind. Speaking of Akane, she's also an interesting case in a way that she more or less perfectly represents the more "black and white" views on justice in general. Namely the more toxic/biased kind. Her reasons are also understandable but she was also acting selfishly by only focusing on how SHE was effected by Aoi's death and not even considering those that were also grieving her death and/or that people grieve/handle grief differently than her. But back on topic.

Her own views and beliefs that law enforcement basically SHOULD be dismantled (mostly out of said childish bias and black & white views) and it's framed as WRONG and it's very much correct on that. Chaos and order are two sides of the same coin, one can't exist without the other. When I say ACAB, I'm calling for reform, defund, have the corrupt held accountable for EVERYTHING and even face jail time for their crimes! Defund the police, have the ones that arrest, harm, and even murder out of bias (race, gender, etc.), lose their badges/jobs and locked up, make improvements! It's saying that there IS still corruption out there and there's no denying it. But fully eliminating the law in general will just lead to more problems. Now granted, she's young and clearly doesn't fully understand why those views are ultimately wrong but still... It was a very interesting subject to tackle and I feel like they handled it well.

Now back to Zenkichi, he was at first in denial about his decisions ultimately being the wrong ones too and even tries to justify it. Of course, his Shadow said otherwise and that was when he finally admitted that he really did act no different from the criminals he despised. But it also doesn't mean he can't redeem himself and that's what ultimately leads to his new resolve:

That right there along with everything else! There's the nuance! And ultimately despite some hiccups, Strikers handled the grey morality and nuance beautifully! Especially regarding law enforcement! Dare I say, even better than the base game! It continues the critiques with no problem but also showing different sides and areas of it! There is good and evil, but what about in-between? What about the more greyer area? It still says that there IS corruption, sometimes even beyond saving but... Sometimes a small silver lining is hidden somewhere.

Now, the ultimate question:

Is P5 & P5S (namely the latter) Pro-Police or Anti-Police?

Personally, my answer is this: Neither.

Why? What theme do they both have in common?

JUSTICE

Someone puts it best on Twitter that the games are more pro-justice and I fully agree!

P5/P5S gives the idea about following your OWN justice, your OWN moral code and rules, paving your OWN path and not let others dictate it! That's what the MCs ultimately start to learn in both games. Therefore it's pro-justice. Again, do I agree that the system is beyond saving? Yeah. Do I at least acknowledge and understand what the narratives are trying to say and nuances regardless even if I don't agree with some writing decisions (ex: Makoto wanting to become a commissioner despite everything)? Also yes. But at the same time, don't judge a book by its cover for other people (not just law enforcement and politics mind you). Especially some that genuinely DO want to help at best. That there is nuance and greyness, just have to look closely. Some of the MCs are still TERRIBLY written and executed (even annoying) but the message was still somewhat there.

Final Thoughts

Now I fully understand how you all feel of course! I still believe in ACAB and even I agree that maybe I'm one to talk and have a lot more to learn about the world... This is just my own attempt at putting my own two cents in. If you disagree, that's fine! This is just what I've felt should be at least talked about more often. And I tried to phrase it as best as I can without coming off as insensitive or ignorant and if I did, I sincerely apologize for that! I'm not trying to say, come off as a "bootlicker" or any of the sort. I'm just trying show discuss more of the grey areas and nuances that are, more often than not, constantly overlooked. How one interprets both games is ultimately up to them. You, the player. And this is my own interpretation. Simple as that. I hope you all have a good day/afternoon/evening!

#starchild rambles #analysis #persona 5 #persona 5 royal #persona 5 strikers #p5 #p5r #p5s #p5s spoilers #p5r spoilers #p5 spoilers #long post

[nodameshield]

how are we doing? have the tears dried yet? I know mine haven’t :: 

let’s start light : research fellows count ! (also, lady, only ten years old? - I resent that).

Goh understands this?? he’s got a silly proud smile and it’s following Ash’s butchered storytelling??? love 

research fellows count ! 

perfectly attainable dream 

sure, go for it.  (look at both of their supportive lil smiles, we love best friends) 

we all know the scene that’s coming ahead, but I thought this was a beautiful demonstration of growth already on Goh’s side.

Listen before the sad part begins let us appreciate for a moment how Ash and Goh were smiling at EACH OTHER after the interview was over. cuties. 

behold : the last frame we have of baby Sobble. I’m going to miss you, bean. thank you for everything<3 (he was so proud of his good deed as well!! my very heart) 

just how fast the night changes, indeed.

Drizzle went through shock and pain at record speed and swiftly landed on anger - only to fall into ✨depression✨ just as quickly.

and then we just stayed there.

someone 

is 

(oh hey Cinderace ! good to see ya)

having  

a rough morning

 (I’m sorry, this scene was just fucking funny - the drama)

Cinderace’s proud big bro moment was just too sweet to leave out - let us not forget, he’s been a big bro since he was Raboot (and even as a temperamental Raboot, he was always gentle to Sobble). And now his baby bro has evolved as well. precious ! 

Goh handled this situation very maturely from the beginning. And here’s when the build up starts. He’s saying ‘hey, let me help you how I think you need to be helped” and he genuinely doesn’t mean any harm! naturally, his reaction is to help his Pokémon, in the way that has worked in the past.

but then he starts to understand maybe that’s not the best approach this time around.

and he’s ready to respect those new boundaries (of course, there’s no blame on Cinderace, either. Much like Goh, he - and everyone, really - was just trying to help in the way he thought was the best).

shoutout to the animation on this bit because Pikachu’s ears darting down was a delightful detail. Chloe’s expression and Grookey’s simmering down drove the point home as well.

ah, you coy little thing. Did you forget how your trainer almost left you behind because of how rebellious you were??? Because you made him feel as though you’d be better off without him?? (Cinderace has selective memory, you can’t change my mind, don’t be miss-leaded by the cuteness)

this build up was wonderful - we begin to hear all these reasons why, yeah? maybe he just wants to be alone.

maybe he’s still very afraid and careful of his surroundings, and his evolution made it worse? (he’d been popping up in random places in previous episodes, hiding, which was also great foreshadowing for this episode !) 

maybe he’s cocooning himself until he’s ready to evolve again? (which, considering his disappointment and how badly he wanted to be Inteleon already, is a very plausible reason)

but Prof. Cerise gets it right when he says ‘we can’t really know for sure’ (which ties greatly with Goh’s upcoming scene) - is it your Drizzle’s quirk? are they all like this? who cares? Isn’t wonderful how he’s a living creature? how he’s got nuances and a personality? shouldn’t that be enough of a reason to look after him, and try to help him right now?

my child, still thinking he’s got to do everything on his own.

and these two are just like ????? Goh ??? watchu talking about ???

can you imagine how MUCH this moment means to him?? he was ready to keep going alone (it’s what he knows) and even when Ash and Chloe prove him, time and time again, that he’s not alone, there’s still something in Goh coded to believe others won’t care as much/won’t be there when he needs them. and that’s why he insists: I’ve got this. I can do it alone.

and, sure, but you don’t have to. that’s the beauty of friendship.

you tell him, Chloe. (actually, without Chloe calling him out, he might have taken longer to figure out where Drizzle was. so...) // but also, it gives us a glimpse into the fact that, while Goh might have felt very lonely, Chloe has been observing and caring for him - in her way - for a long minute as well.

my very point above. 

HEY, LISTEN: he doesn’t know, either. he’s a child, words are hard, and you rotate along the four moods of childhood (happy, upset, scared, hungry (?)) and don’t ponder much on anything else because you are a child, there’s no emotional intelligence to speak of, no need for it, you’re being shaped by your environment and all the stimuli of the world being a new place. things like loneliness, confusion, anxiety... we can’t put those into words - hell, they’re fucking abstract and confusing even when we are adults.

and Goh’s stimuli and environment was, given what we know of his family life, a rather lonely one. Did his parents have a lot of spare time to take him to the park? I don’t think so. Was he good at going out there and asking other kids to play? ... probably not. 

Chloe doesn’t strike me as an extrovert, either, so even if she wanted to get close to Goh or invite him to hang out, perhaps she was too shy as well. Heck, perhaps Goh’s reaction would’ve been like the one above, he simply didn’t know. Maybe he didn’t want to ! and that’s perfectly fine as well.

am I forgiving the anipoke team for making Goh cry? no, never. but this was beautifully executed so I can grow to live with it.

“why are you depressed?” “you have nothing to be sad about!” “look at all the wonderful things you have!” “just be happy again!” - sound familiar? yeah, this was incredibly well done.

as adults, perhaps we see this and think ‘shit, how cool that they’re prodding on these topics, it’s important’ and it is !!! so important !! but if it’s this impactful as young-adults/grown-ups, imagine how impactful it must be as a child to see this and feel perceived. I’m honestly so proud of this moment, this whole episode. I’m grateful they took the time to look into this maturely. and even if children don’t do a full-fledged analysis on it, if they relate (like I know so many of us did) they won’t forget it. and that’s beautiful.

darling I’m blanking on your TW handle I’m so sorry - but someone in a tweet SO RIGHTFULLY pointed out that these are the words Goh would have needed to hear when he was younger. saying them to Drizzle it’s a full circle moment for him, he’s hearing them as well, and it’s helping both of them grow.

He’s not forcing himself as Drizzle’s trainer. Goh bears no entitlement here. He’s saying ‘Hey, if you’re comfortable, if you want to share , I’ll be here’ / as a kid, people did care for him, they kept wanting to know what was going on, but Goh couldn’t put that in words and people pestering him only made it worse, but if someone had said ‘hey, when you’re ready...’ then,,,,yeah,,,,maybe it would’ve been different. 

he’s offering that safety now to his Pokémon, something he didn’t have, but he grew to understand is what he (and now Drizzle) needed. If that doesn’t have you breaking down in a teary mess then you are stronger than I’ll ever be, because my glasses were cloudy by this point.

why, why, why. because you needed to hear all that as well, baby! so did a number of us. thank you.

I’ll say that, however it was that you connected with this moment, that’s yours to cherish. 

Personally, I too had a lonely childhood marked by parents who overworked, and I too spent a lot of time alone in kindergarten and through elementary school because it was hard to make friends (turns out i’m an extrovert, ha, talk about breaking out of your shell...) so, obviously there were easy common grounds for me in this episode.

but I LOVED to read the reactions and realize so many people still connected with it, one way or the other. So many of us felt seen and understood and acknowledged in emotions that are so hard to put into words !! 

so, again, if you identified with Goh or Drizzle or any of the topics in this episode, that’s very beautiful, and I hope the underlying message that you’re not alone gets through.

With Sobble, and now with Drizzle as well, Goh is very adamant to remind us that, however we are, that’s fine. there’s something that makes us special, regardless of other people’s opinions, or their ideas of how we *should be* // that’s the message I’m taking with me, at least.

 and i can’t wait to see how this story line evolves !! I have no doubts that, when the moment comes, Inteleon will be a wonderful addition to the team, but Drizzle is here now, and he’s plenty wonderful already x

Bonus: 

ha ha, yes. I watched this episode three times. And all three times I was a mess.

side note but a very important one: the animation, the voice acting, the dialog, the scenery of the starry night - the entire scene was so beautifully executed. so  carefully crafted. ugh, amazing. just perfect. so happy.

#all right this took forever #if you are still reading thank you #anipoke #pokemon journeys #ep 62 #we won't be forgetting this one now will we #journeyshipping #Pokémon Journeys: The Series #SatoGou #Firstfriendshipping #Goh #satoshi #Chloe #ngl Chloe was the mvp #calling Goh out on his bs #we love to see her #Goh I'm so proud of you #please keep growing #you're beautiful and i love you

[bondsmagii]

I’m rereading Vicious and after knowing everything about Vengeful everything that Eli did on vicious makes so much sense.

The first time I read Vicuous I always wondered what exactly went through Eli’s head, what was he thinking? When he looked for Victor when Victor was about to replicate his experiment? Was Eli concerned about Victor or was Eli was acting for selfish reasons? What was he thinking and feeling after he got his powers? What was he thinking when Victor attacked him and why was he so quick to think Victor was a devil in disguise? What was his last thought when he was about to become an Eo and how does it relate to healing? What was his thought process when he was trying to give up his life to god and when he decided that killing EOS was the “right” thing to do?

And after reading Vengeful everything becomes so much clearer, his last thought was probably about how he wanted to be “healed and saved” he internalized so some much religious trauma that it affected the way he acted and his thogught porcess, he witnessed his mother suicide on a bathtub and that’s probably why he chose that method both times before and after becoming an EO, his father used to beat him as a kid because he supposedly “had the devil in him” and he does feels like one through his life, doing his best to act as “normal” as possible.

His mother death also explains why he was so worried about Victor and even in the first book Eli talks very fondly of him even referring to him as his best friend and he explains to Serena he thinks Victor died and something sinister replaced him after becoming an EO and this conclusion although rash, it make sense he would try to rationalize and in a way justify the awful things that Victor did after turning into an EO.

And even in vengeful he started imagining Victor to kept him company when he was going through hell, he admits to himself that Victor was the only person who ever truly “saw” him and understood him, pretty much confirming that the “rivalry” Victor and Eli had was mostly one-sided and Eli really did loved him and consider him his best friend.

This also explains his weird behavior towards Victor when Vic himself was trying to turn himself into an EO, Eli witnessed his mother death and probably didn’t wanted the same to happen to Victor after Eli himself almost died trying to recreate it.

The first book also explains that he tried to take his life a second time after Victor got arrested begging for God to take away his power if it had been a mistake, he seemed to externalize all of this negative experience and feelings through his purpose of exterminating the EOS because he sincerely believed that was the right thing to do, his faith although horribly used and mishandled seemed to be genuine based on how we was him literally begging to god to take his life back if everything had been a mistake.

Everyone one of his actions seem to be driven by his childhood and religious trauma and it’s incredible sad to me, he wan’t a sociopath or a psychopath he was just very broken and delusional individual.

And his experience with Serena who forced herself into him also didn’t helped the whole “EOS are devils in disguise” perspective , even since I read the first book (when I didn’t knew anything about Eli yet) I was very repulsed by what Serena was doing to him, to the point that even though I greatly disliked Eli at first I kind of hated Serena more for what she was doing to him. I am also a little disappointed in how the fandom barely acknowledges that what Serena did to Eli was incredibly wrong and messed up.

I have already said this, but the fandom seems to treat Eli very unkindly, they brush over all of his story and just label him as a “sociopath” or “psychopath” barely understanding and completely missing the point of why he behaved the way that he did.

I don’t mind if people hate his character, I did so at first, but the way everyone brush over all of his trauma and the way people completely misinterpreted his character and actions don’t set up right with me.

It’s a little surprising how people can praise Serena, Victor and Marcella despite their awful actions while they hate on Eli for the same reason, overall Eli seems to have been the one to receive the shorter end of the stick by the fandom.

honestly I've read this so many times because you're so right and it's such a relief to know that somebody else out there is capable of critical thinking skills lmao. I think the problem with people's response to Eli is that they think his backstory is an excuse, when in actual fact it's an explanation. go figure, kids who grow up in abusive households will turn into adults with a boatload of issues, and some of those issues are more likely than not going to cause harm of their own. it's totally possible to be both a victim and someone who causes harm; yes, Eli thinks he's in the right, but his actions are still wrong. it's possible to understand both of these things and it's possible to still like his character and sympathise with him, while still understanding that damn, he maybe needs to chill on the serial killing.

it wouldn't bother me as much if people didn't think that Victor was absolutely innocent. people seem to revere him, and it's because in the narrative he's set up as Eli's opposite. the whole point of the story is that there's no good men in the game, but because Victor wants to stop Eli, people see him as the good guy and overlook how cruel he was to Eli throughout their entire friendship, and also how cruel he is to the others. (Mitch is probably the only one there of his own free will. Sydney was an injured 12-year-old child when Victor picked her up, and he did so only because she had information that he wanted -- his first thought was to torture it out of her, but when she gave it willingly and kind of hero-worshipped him in the way a neglected child would hero-worship their saviour, he decided she could stay. Dominic is there by force, because he's a disabled man in constant chronic agony that Victor fixes with his EO abilities, and if he does something to displease Victor or leaves him, Victor has threatened to bring the pain back even worse.) people rewrite both Eli and Victor's personalities to fit this, with Eli being cast as this unfeeling psychopath and Victor the person standing up to his evil, and in actual fact Eli is absolutely not a psychopath -- he's a traumatised adult recovering from a highly abusive childhood -- and Victor is not standing up to evil; he's settling a score. a score he kind of started in the first place, by being a jealous asshole towards Eli's thesis, trying to dominate it because his own sucked, seeking glory off the back of Eli's hard work, and then when he succeeded in his goals and became an EO, immediately murdering Eli's girlfriend and torturing Eli because he was jealous Eli's idea was correct. like, Victor Vale is a little bitch, on god. the reason it ended like this was because he was a god-awful friend to Eli, who was literally Victor's only true friend because he was the only person who would put up with him. go figure that the only person who could deal with Victor's behaviour was a grown abused child. nobody who hadn't been indoctrinated into believing that behaviour was acceptable would ever voluntarily deal with Victor.

literally every decision and action Eli takes can be traced back to his trauma, but go figure that nobody on this website can treat trauma with the nuance it deserves. people on this site seem to think that if you're traumatised you're always innocent and vulnerable; if anyone acts outside of this idea, they're written off. I take Eli's treatment very personally because I've seen people quite literally do this to real life people, myself included. because I wasn't a quiet, easy-to-deal-with traumatised person, I got all kinds of shit. it's the exact same with Eli. because he acts badly, because he does bad things, people seek to dehumanise him and set him aside because he apparently makes abuse survivors look bad or whatever -- when in actual fact acting badly is a very common response among abuse survivors, because we were brought up in an environment where that was normal and we don't know otherwise. not to mention the fact that the kind of mental illness Eli shows -- PTSD, mainly -- has many symptoms that make for unpleasant actions. it's not a crime to show the impact these things have, but people take it so personally. I've even seen people say it's ableist to portray characters like Eli because it gives people with trauma or mental illness a bad name, but no. that's literally not how it works. people with trauma and people with mental illness act badly, they fuck up, they can abuse people, sometimes they do harm or even kill people. ignoring this isn't going to get us anywhere, and if anything's ableist, it's looking at a clearly traumatised, mentally ill person and saying that he's a psychopath and evil and irredeemable. like, come on.

Eli didn't catch a single break for his whole life. everyone he's ever met has abused him horribly. you don't have to like him, but the people who can look at this and see nothing sympathetic about him? genuinely I don't trust them.

#long post #vicious #vengeful #anon #asks

[lesbianrobin]

☕️ max and billy?

so basically i think that their dynamic in s2 was REALLY interesting and one of the more compelling relationships in the show and i don't mean that in a gross weird way i mean it like. like abuse isn't always in parental or romantic relationships and it's so rare to see an abusive sibling relatonship in media that's treated seriously and not downplayed or treated as comedic. they weren't just bickering siblings! billy passed on the abuse he received from his father to max. he hurt her and did his best to terrorize her, and max was deeply afraid of him, and the whole thing just felt incredibly real, though upsetting and painful. when max sedates billy at the end of the season, threatens him with the bat, and is finally the one with the power in their relationship, when she threatens him and finally makes him feel the same terror he's been inflicting on her... i think that's truly one of the most cathartic and emotional moments in the whole show! so i think the max and billy relationship in s2 was pretty cool and interesting in terms of writing (and acting on sadie's part holy SHIT i still cry whenever i see her face in any given scene with billy).

s3.... yikes. yikes. i don't know WHAT the fuck happened there. it's like... okay so there's two ways to approach s3.

one is that the writers Completely fucked up and got lazy. since they wanted the emotional impact that usually comes with a "somebody's been possessed!" storyline, they just decided to downplay/erase the abusive elements of the max and billy dynamic and treat them like normal siblings, so they could have her be dismissive of the possibility that he might be possessed and then have her be totally devastated at his loss. that's why max seems to have basically forgotten that billy abused her. because that's the easiest storyline to write, and it's harder to think of how max might react with all the nuance of her and billy's relationship in play than it is to just treat them like normal siblings, and they didn't want to do the hard thing.

or, if you want to be charitable/twist canon in a way that makes a little bit more sense... maybe we're supposed to assume that billy's been Totally harmless since max turned the tables in s2, and that's why she acts the way she does. ever since she took him down and threatened him into submission, she's not afraid of him anymore. he hasn't bothered her ever since. he's just weird, not scary. the writers didn't forget about his abuse, they just want us to think max is... over it?

i don't know exactly how i feel about this interpretation. it does make a kind of sense, that max might no longer be afraid of billy if we assume he completely stopped behaving the way he did in s2, but i just can't see him doing that. in their daily lives, billy is still bigger than max, older and stronger and the one in charge, and she doesn't have any sedatives or spiked baseball bats lying around. even if he DID stop bothering her completely, i don't think her fear/wariness of him would go away to quite the extent it seems to have gone away in s3. like, even if max doesn't think billy is a threat to HER anymore, she absolutely should have been more on-board with the possibility that billy had done something to heather, considering how she knows firsthand that he can be incredibly violent when he doesn't get his way. if anything, i think that the initial disagreement between el and max during their investigation in s3 should have been max thinking that it was all billy hurting people vs el trying to convince her it was actually the mindflayer.

i'm not gonna argue with max attempting to reason with billy or mourning him, as i do think those are realistic responses for a kid in her situation. while he's hurt her and she doesn't like him, she IS still a kid who just wants a happy family and a brother who'll love her. especially if he stopped harming and threatening her after s2... it's not ridiculous to think that despite everything billy's done and despite her knowledge that he'll probably never change, max might still be hopeful for a future where he's better, a future where he'll be the big brother she wants and deserves (though she probably would never acknowledge this hope).

one thing i find interesting (and a point in favor of the st writers) is how billy was a big part of max's story in s3, but she was not a big part of his. seeing the memories of his mother that el brought out were enough to make billy rebel against the mindflayer, but he didn't even hesitate to punch max in the face all while she was begging him not to hurt her and her friends. el shows billy a brief scene of him meeting max, but this is not what breaks the mindflayer's hold. we don't see max again. the only person billy's ever truly loved is his mother. it's clear that the hope max holds out for billy is in vain; even if he lived, he would never be the brother she wants, because he just doesn't care about her.

if the writers had tried to pull some "see, he really DOES love her!" shit, i would have probably thrown up. in showing us that billy does not love max, they at least refute the idea that abusers do what they do out of love, or that abusers love their victims and are simply too troubled to stop their abusive behavior. all positive sentiment between max and billy comes from max, the vulnerable kid just wishing for someone to look out for her, and i think (despite the writers' other missteps in portraying that relationship in s3) that makes a lot of sense.

TL;DR billy was a piece of shit abuser who never loved max, and max is a vulnerable kid who hated him, yet kept hoping despite herself that maybe one day billy could become the brother she deserved. this relationship wasn't perfectly written, but it's still really compelling and i think it's a great vehicle for max's development.

thanks for asking!!!

#asks #em talks #stranger things #abuse tw #max mayfield #long post #lesbianrobin.canon

[kitkatopinions]

I'm aware of the cross tagging from FNDM in rwde since sometimes I look in it at times, but I think what irks me is about Adam.

The guy is already dead and FNDM just can't let go that anyone that are fans of him just have to shove in there face "See? See? He's ALWAYS been emotional abusive since the beginning, you guys are abuse apologist!" He was charismatic in a degree because he had a lot of loyal followers, and if I remember correctly didn't he not give a shit Blake was in Beacon? Why is the FNDM so keen on people that don't agree with them? It's such a waste of time.

The Adam topic is honestly a... Hard one, with a lot of layers. I fully believe he was always meant to be Blake’s abuser and a plain straight villain. But he used to be a much more nuanced character, who let her go and focused on his own goals. He got coerced - yes, full on coerced - into joining Cinder’s plan, but seemed to lean into it and wanted to use it to his advantage. In season three, he delved into much worse territory, stabbing Blake, trying to cut off her head, and maiming Yang. This obviously ought to be considered evil. But he still let Blake run away and continued doing his job rather than chasing her down and killing her and Yang, clearly implying that he cared about a lot more than just Blake.

The treatment of the faunus/racism allegory really damages all of their Faunus characters in the first five season minus maybe Velvet. Adam was no exception to this. He should’ve been a very different character than what we got even in seasons 1-3 because he was a strong voice in their only pro-Faunus rights activist group, and seemingly a leader of one of the branches. CRWBY never should’ve made the only pro-Faunus rights activist group in their story a violent terrorist group that wanted to destroy peace and take out white people non faunus. And one of the leaders of that group being an abuser and a total monster? Not a cute look. That feels like straight up propaganda. Especially after revealing Adam’s brand mark, and dropping details about him being a slave in songs and outside content.

And then the writing staff decided to take a character who seemed to care for his cause and care for his people (he rejected Cinder’s offer for him to join them because it would do nothing for the Faunus, and then only agreed when she threatened his people,) and they stripped him of those two good traits and made him act as though he’d only ever been using the White Fang for power and to get at Blake. He stalked her for days (when he’d willingly let her get away without following two times before,) and he turned into nothing more than an abusive ex. I got tripped up enough on RT’s terrible to choice to make him such a monster in the first place, but stripping him of the few good points he did have just to... Make Blake sadder, maybe? Make him seem less sympathetic? That sucked. And if they were going for trying to make Adam less sympathetic, they shouldn’t have freaking showed us the SDC logo burned into his face! There’s nothing satisfying about watching an oppressed former child slave and allegory to people of color, with a company logo branded onto his face, get murdered due to no real fault from the heroes and die alone after having his character reduced to ‘abusive ex’ by careless white writers who just last season had been shoving ‘people of color should stop hurting themselves and just prove they’ll defend white people from other people of color and then they’ll earn respect’ into their narrative. 

Honestly, I’m not an Adam stan. His character didn’t get a lot (and his voice acting wasn’t the best tbh,) and the character he did have was largely unlikable to me personally. The reason for that is the writers’ miserable failure of an allegory that came across as very propaganda-ish and white comfort driven, but I’ve just never really... Liked him all that much. However, a lot of people saw potential in Adam, and liked who he could’ve been a lot. And there were other people who liked Adam as a villain. Both of those things are perfectly valid. I don’t know much about the Adam stan community, but I personally have never once seen anyone in the RWDE tags excusing Adam’s actions in the show or trying to say they were alright. What I have seen is people acknowledging that Adam’s character was severely mishandled, or writing their own, new versions of Adam’s character where they try to handle him well or treat the topics at hand with more respect than the writers did. Other people literally just acknowledge Adam’s pain, and that’s totally valid too.

I’ve dealt with crosstagging in other fandoms and pro tags getting lots of anti people invading and trying to pick fights. And even main character tags, people should realize are going to be used by people who enjoy the character, and attacking them for it or commenting on their posts to try and get a reaction is mad annoying. Antis should use filterable tags. RWBY megafans are always getting mad at RWDE posters if they so much as use the main tag even if they have a drove of filterables, but they refuse to use any proper tags themselves. It can be so frustrating when you’re just trying to share content about a character you like with other people who like that character, and you get people coming into your comments going��‘you know they did A right?’ ‘you know they’re a bad person, right?’ ‘Oh so you love (insert immoral thing here)?!?!’

It’s honestly toxic. Adam - the character - did horrible things no one should excuse. But A. He did those things because he was written to do them, and people ought to be able to look at that writing and see how it’s harmful. And B. Liking a character is not approval of all of their actions. People can stan villains. There are Joker stans and Tom Riddle stans and freaking Moriarty from Sherlock lovers, I think RWBY fans should be able to get past Adam stans. And C. Softening characters for your own personal headcanons is a-okay, and shouldn’t be something you get attacked for. This is especially important to remember in characters that you look at and say ‘this should’ve been done differently because the character they did give us is insulting or a bad portrayal.’ It’s easy to become attached to characters you think were done dirty by their clearly biased writers. I have a long string of characters I just write different in fan fiction, because I got mad at how they were handled, for all sorts of fandoms. People need to understand that not everyone is going to see RWBY and the RWBY characters exactly how they see them. People have different favorites and different interpretations, and even if that interpretation isn’t one hundred percent right in canon, well guess what? Canon isn’t king, people have every right to headcanon whatever they want.

You got me ranting. XD But yeah, I personally think RWBY fans should leave Adam fans alone, so long as they aren’t hurting anyone. Obviously, I don’t know all the details, but yeah. I’m a firm believer in the benefits of ‘pro’ and ‘anti’ tags for character content. I’ve been trying to use ‘pro Ironwood’ for instance in mine. I know it wouldn’t get rid of all the antis, but it’s worth a shot.

And the amount of RWBY megafans who literally go to the RWDE tag and look at posts specifically tagged and marked as anti rwby eight ways to sunday just to pick fights... Astronomical. People who don’t like to see it should filter it out and make their (and our!) experiences much better.

So... Those are my thoughts on that.

#rwde #anti rwby #anti crwby #pro adam taurus #not really but to a certain degree #rwby criticism #rwby bashing #anti fndm

[inessencedevided]

Rly the big difference w LWJ and Jiang Cheng in terms of their arc w WWX is that we get to see the changes LWJ goes through in real time, while JC’s pivotal decision (how he lost his core) isn’t revealed til the end. They both spend wwx’s first life misunderstanding him bc he’s hiding the truth, and like secretly trying to help him while miscommunicating about it, and struggling with responsibilities and loyalty to their sect over helping him openly. But ok jc is just evil I guess? 😂

Lmao how did you sent that on accident? 😂 but I'm not angry op because I completely agree. (Don't ever hesitate to send me an ask as long as it's not anon hate btw. I'm always happy to ramble ;))

Jiang Cheng is a very flawed person but so is kind of everyone in mdzs/cql and i think that's kind of the point. So I'm just baffled when people entirely glorify or vilify any of them. (Maybe except wen ruohan+sons and jin guangshan.those are pretty flat villainy characters ^^) In my opinion that just misses the entire point of the story. I mean sure, there are acts that in real live i would never forgive, but in a story where practically everyone has blood on their hands, it's pretty hard to definitely state "oh yes I can forgive wei wuxian for murdering millions and making wen chao eat his own fingers but I draw the line at jiang cheng torturing demonic cultivators." Like sure, if you can forgive one but not the other, that's absolutely fair. People have red lines in fiction and that's normal. But you can't claim the moral high ground here when objectively, both actions are very gruesome and amoral. I wish people would recognise more often that when it comes to their taste in fiction (or fictional characters / ships etc.) their judgement is really mostly due to preference and not some high and mighty ethical stance. Then they could recognise that people disagreeing with their opinions aren't actually morally wrong, they just have different preferences.

About jiang cheng: honestly I think his and lan Wangji's journeys are very different but as you said, they both don't communicate their feelings very well. I think the main difference after wei wuxian's resurrection is that while his death and subsequent return caused lan wangji to finally be sure about his feelings and priorities, the entire mess of it caused jiang cheng to go deep into denial about his love for wei wuxian and mask it all with 20 layers of very destructive anger.

Does he cause harm because of it? Yes he does. To wei wuxian, himself and others. (In the novel definitely more overtly because of the whole torturing demoic cultivators thing 😬) and I kind of get that some people think that their relationship is too destructive to be mended. Personally, I can empathise with this (having cut ties with family members in the past myself) but in the case of the twin heros I just don't feel that way. Maybe it's because the roots of their problems are ultimately not their fault. Everything from their differing social status over the jiang parents to the war came in between the brotherhood they shared and while they were of course active choices involved that drove them apart, none of them were ever made because they did not love each other. Obviously their inherent characters also play a role but I honestly don't think that jiang cheng would have felt he had to constantly compete against wei wuxian without his parent's behaviour towards them or that wei wuxian would have sacrificed quite as much and as readily and without even asking if he was not raised to ultimately sacrifice everything for jiang cheng if the need arose. Obviously there is nuance to which of their actions were even right or wrong and I'm definitely not the best person to analyse the social aspect of it, but I will still say that I think it's ultimately the best example of how the social hirachies as they are presented in mdzs hurt people.

Anyway, to get back to why i can't hate jiang cheng: as flawed as I think he is and as much as I am part of team "no, sometimes love is not enough and that needs to acknowledged in stories as well", I think he is ultimately one of the most damaged characters in mdzs and I find the prospect of him going through a journey that ultimately leads him towards a less destructive and "all or nothing" kind of love very cathartic.

#this got longer than intended ^^ #mdzs #jiang cheng #the untamed #wei wuxian #twin heroes of yunmeng #ask #anon #is this ... meta? ^^ #I'll tag it #mdzs meta #though I'm not sure it can be classified as such 🤷‍♀️

[businessbois]

The whole apologist thing in this fan base is kinda toxic. Like Ik this is role play but the characters of tommy and tubbo are still meant to be children and the way people act like there the real villains makes me sick sometimes. They put techno on like this pedestal as if he’s perfect and completely justified but make out Tommy to be this horrible selfish betrayer. And then characters like nikki and jack are all of a sudden are now blaming Tommy for there problems (which in itself just the idea of all the adults blaming children being in the script is hard to watch) and the fan base applauding it like it’s a cool new justified arc. I hope when alive Wilbur is reintroduced he’s goes back to being more of his supportive character from the start but if he doesn’t I don’t know if i can keep watching. I know this is all fictional but as someone who’s had similar experiences in the real world and seeing it be just accepted, execused and even joked about on Twitter and tumblr is uncomfortable. I feel like the fan base is probably younger but I wish at least the creators could adress this if they are going to use such serious topics. It’s really not just jokes anymore, children get ignored so often in favor of adults in the real world and this shouldn’t be something promoted to such a large fan base. Tbh i can’t even tell if I’m over reacting to it but these last few streams have made me so upset.

i don’t like the term “apologist” but it’s widely used in the fandom and i haven’t seen any alternatives for it? all these characters are nuanced, all of them do good and bad. none of the characters are villains except dream. i like techno and i believe he isn’t wrong to feel hurt, but it’s the people who completely refuse to see that he has done any wrong and that he’s only a victim here that makes me not want to like his character. everyone in the story has been hurt and everyone has done harm, tommy and tubbo have acknowledged both of these facts. i don’t know much about the script of the dream smp and whats written or not, but are these new arcs w jack and niki in the script? because it really seemed like they were being left out and so did that to join the narrative.  (i don’t blame them for wanting to be in, this is a result of i think a lack of communication with writing idk im not trying to be critical of the writers in this particular post) i know a lot of people have hope for wilbur, i personally don’t,  but i also trust cc!wilbur to not just keep punishing tommy and tubbo’s charactesr because thats just miserable. if this is personal to you, than you are completely justified to be upset. you connected with this story as a lot of people did and it is upsetting to watch. i want to have faith in the content creators to send a good message, but i get feeling disheartened by all this. i know ranboo has a twitter where he goes out of character to analyze and answer questions about his character, perhaps thats an idea for others. or even if they could just address on stream “hey, my character is wrong in doing this. they are acting like that because this.” like, spelling it out isn’t fun and might seem overkill, but due to a lot of people only seeing the perspective of their favorite character, there’s a lot of bias and i think being able to say “support my character but know that this isn’t what you should take away from the story” would do a lot? idk im just thinking out loud at this point kind rambling sorry

#dsmp analysis #critical #i think #maybe

[mc-critical]

hey, welcome back! hope your exams and stuff went well, and that you're doing fine now.

i wanted to hear your opinion on nigar hatun. i remember seeing one post of yours in which you said that she wasn't a favourite of yours like you favoured other characters and honestly, same. i didn't really much understand the fascination with her. she was an interesting character, but i can't imagine having her as a favourite when there are so many more characters who are far more interesting. i wish they gave her an alternate arc. idk what it could be, i'd like to hear your opinion on it. one alternative ending i came up for her is that she was extremely angry at ibrahim for toying with her and hatice for keeping her sweet little esmanur from her so she joins hurrem to defeat them? which hurrem did try but it didn't really go anywhere and nigar was against hurrem for killing ibrahim which just was kinda frustrating. they literally give hurrem no ally in the harem [except mihrimah later on but mihri is overall varying in terms of power] so it would be good for her to have some support in the harem from people who actually hated her enemies like her. she had actual political support from iskender celebi, rustem, and ayaz pasha and all, sure, but she didn't have much support in the harem, like all powerful women of the harem were against her. nigar obviously wasn't powerful like a sultan but she was an old member of the harem, was respected and even though she kinda lost her dignity with the scandal, she could've regained it with hurrem's help. sumbul was there later on but he was just a very faithful servant and didn't really have any real motive to harm any of hurrem's enemies except for out of his loyalty whilst nigar could've cultivated a hatred for hatice and ibrahim. this is a basic plot but i would've kinda liked seeing it. there can be many more ways her character could've ended but it would be good seeing a woman who didn't bow to her feelings all the time. the sultanas couldn't really control their feelings when it came to love because they were princesses who were used to getting what they wanted most of the time but nigar was a servant who also suffered the hardships of slavery and it obviously would've made her tougher as a person so she could control her feelings better; idk, i feel like this is an aspect of women they could've explored [or if they did explore it, i don't remember it lol my memory lapses a lot so i don't remember the show 100%] anyway, would like to hear your thoughts on nigar. thank you. welcome back again <3

Thank you! <33 Yup, I'm fine and the exams went well. Happy Pride month to you, too! 🏳️‍🌈

Hehe, I wrote that post years ago and while Nigar still isn't one of my absolute favourite characters, I've warmed up to her quite a bit. And honestly, now with the wider experience in the fandom, I can say that she isn't all that loved as it looks like. I then was under the limited wrong impression that the BG Mamma forum was a metric of all the popular opinions and yes, they loved Nigar a lot and I was sometimes confused as to why, but really, that and the Russian fanbase are the only places I have encountered that appreciate her all that much. There are characters I find more interesting than her, that's for sure, but she has her charm and I'm firmly against people reducing her to "evil" or "manipulative" or "weak after she fell in love with Ibrahim", so forth.

The thing she sets her first impression with is her intelligence caused by her relatively high experience in the harem. The advice she gave to Hürrem opened the path to her whole goal (as she herself acknowledged in E41) and that makes for quite an impact for a more recurring character. Despite of this, I never viewed early Nigar as someone taking an open side, hence I didn't find her supposed betrayal to Hürrem surprising in the slightest: she is also trying to survive in this environment in any way she knows how and she can't really find a fully comfortable position, because she is well aware that everyone is thinking for their own gain in the end. Including her. So the only choice she has left is to direct herself to where the wind is blowing and get advantages for herself once she gets the chance. Because all the experience has taught her to repress her feelings (E10 to Hürrem: "In this castle you can't show weakness."), opt to be the more level-headed person and seek for the more pragmatic solutions.

And yet she is very sensitive and perceptive to people that are different than the others or that are in need and is willing to lend them her hand. She adviced and helped Hürrem because she found potential in her, because she wanted to see her succeed, but not through endangering her own self or other people in the process (she told Hürrem that her game had gone too far again in E41), but through negotiation, compromise and adaption, to know when to start and when to stop and be respectful to those above her, no matter how hard or limiting that may look in Hürrem's eyes. Hürrem had the tendency in viewing every sign of support that came to her as granted, she still had that naive part of innocence in her in S01 and early on was in a desparate need of someone to lean on and unconditionally follow her path, that's why when Nigar diverted from that path, it hurt and took her a while to start trusting her again. But I didn't see Nigar as all that attached to Hürrem as Hürrem herself thought she was, especially with how Nigar became stuck between two sultanas later in S01 and that rendered her lost and more insecure than usual.

That's also why I don't view her as a two-faced or hypocritical double-crosser. Because for the longest time, Nigar was the one character in the series before Rüstem appeared that was clearly thinking about her own benefit and survival first and foremost from the beginning when darting between the powerful people in the harem and was the one well aware that she simply can't cling to a single side in her own position. Positions aren't permanent and can always change in such circumstances, so why can't she take advantage of this? Because who cares as much about the feelings for a Kalfa they can still order around after all? She has faced disregard from Mahidevran, Hürrem, Ibrahim and even Hatice. It is pretty understandable that she's going to seek the best opportunity for herself.

That whole facade breaks when she falls in love with Ibrahim. During rewatch, I found myself to have a soft spot for this character deconstruction, especially in S02. I know that it came to pass because of her falling in love with a man that doesn't share the same feelings and there were moments where it looked like she overdid it, even in S02, but for me, the whole thing nicely added a new layer of depth, while still feeling true to Nigar's character. Her future relationship with Ibrahim had been building up back in S01, when Ibrahim (both inadvertently and not I fully believe) played a part in helping her solve the first internal conflict she had (that is the struggle between the two sultanas). Maybe this didn't mean that much to Ibrahim, maybe he was simply trying to be helpful, but it meant a lot to Nigar - that was probably the first time someone seemed to take her feelings into account and actually listen when she couldn't help, but crack under the pressure. So it is only natural that she would search for this source of comfort once again, being ready to face every risk in the process. When she is appointed to Hatice and Ibrahim's castle, when she's practically left alone with Ibrahim, she decides to take that chance, to taste the forbidden fruit. He gave her something she never received and due to her not allowing herself to show weakness and having to cave to everyone else's demands before that, every ounce of affection Ibrahim shows her, it means the world to her. Thus she begins to idealize what she has with him, to the point of denial and delusion, and centers her loyalty completely on him. But that loyalty never seems to falter.  She began to resent and/or hate everyone who could possibly stand in Ibrahim's way, something she wouldn't have ever done before. She keeps her level-headed self and intelligence (I don't think that this plot line reduced it in any way, not even when she was at her worst.) and she's ready to take any opportunity for herself (case in point: her marriage with Rüstem.), but now her softer sides and her wish for affection are showing all the more.

The problem I have with Nigar's character, writing-wise, and now that I think about it, the main subject of why I didn't get the deal with her back then (along with considering her S01 self bland.. somehow?), is her S03B characterization. While her falling in love with Ibrahim plot-line became an important part of S02 Nigar's storyline, I don't think it overshadowed or dominated over her other characteristics, making for a neat balance of traits and an interesting, nuanced character. In an attempt to keep her for longest time possible in the story, S03B flanderized her in every possible way and overexaggerated her biggest strengths and flaws until they became stale and unbelievable. Her love for Ibrahim read as а near obsession narratively and her opportunism coupled with her will for revenge, which put her into many repetitive intrigues. At one point I even felt she was reduced to a plot-device (the moment Şah Sultan appointed her as a spy) and she felt a little too purposeless and to have totally outstayed her welcome until her last moment in the series.

The root of this problem is again, that they just didn't know when to stop with Nigar. To be brutally honest, she had no long-term role left to play after Ibrahim's death and it was time for the writers to let her go and maintain her generally strong characterization. The ending I would've chosen for her is to simply have Matrakcı give her Esmanur's location and for her to live with her daughter in piece. I know that because of the tonal shift, the show seemed to be already inclined that everyone had to have a tragic ending of sorts, to underline the growing ruthlessness and cruelty of the themes, but I fully believe that Nigar was one of the only characters that were terribly forced through their tragic endings. She didn't need, nor deserve a tragic ending and I doubt it would've been such a problem for the half-season if she didn't get one. I find a happier ending to be perfectly fine for Nigar and I would've loved to see it, if only for a freshness in ideas for character endings. I loved her Esmanur storyline and to witness her finding happiness with her, the only solace she had left, would have been a great wrap up of her S03 plots and an amazing send-off to Nigar's character.

I appreciate the thought you have put into your ending for her and to be fair, your proposal would be much better than anything S03B gave us. It would nearly correspond with the revenge plot of hers they were going for and it would be something more original at the same time. Hürrem's principal lack of allies doesn't bother me as a fact alone, because all her enemies have understandable reasons to be against her, but what bothers me however, is when the writers try using it to dumb her enemies down and make them doom themselves through their own failings or outright use it to put forced (often soapy) conflicts to make the audience sympathize with Hürrem. Or to make everyone "mistitle" her (is that a word? probably not.) or disrespect her on purpose again for sympathy points (that go beyond the part of her motivation that wants to feel respected and does stuff out of fear not to fall under a less favorable position once again.), without changing the status-quo until say, S04.

It is so deliberate it becomes annoying and seeing something else for a change... honestly, gimme! While I personally prefer a happy ending for Nigar, I would live for Nigar and Hürrem to work together again, while keeping what's become her central motivation intact. It may seem a little OOC for Nigar to work for Hürrem by that point, because she's channeled her loss of the most precious people into rage on those that have taken them away, but it would be a decent shifting of gears and a reverence to her opportunism to work to eradicate those she hates for good, even if it means doing so with one of your bigger enemies. After all, after the mission is fulfilled, she could still work against Hürrem in some way, right?

[Tell me if I got what you meant wrongly, but there is an example of a dynasty sultana putting her love feelings behind and by that I mean Şah Sultan. Her love is in the past by the point she arrived in the castle and her love for Ibrahim is only used as a conflict between her and Hatice, which they get over relatively quick. Sisterly love and ambition are a much bigger priority of Şah's: she cared about Hatice past any resentment she may have harbored over the years and agreed to share her life with Lütfi for the advantage this may bring, even though she didn't love him at all. She divorced him only when he offended the pride of a woman and her own personal pride. Other than that, we indeed didn't have a female character in MC that puts her feelings behind in design as far as I recall, only ones that end up clinging to them completely like Nigar here or ones that let go of them eventually like Mahidevran. Characters that have this design by default are more present in MCK like Safiye, or Turhan, or especially Gülbahar, but as I've said many times, MCK is more ruthless, while MC is more about the personal feelings of the characters, hence every motivation they have is somehow tied to them.]

#magnificent century #muhteşem yüzyıl #muhtesem yuzyil #nigar kalfa #nigar hatun #ask #mihrimah-sultan-can-rail-me

[mrmallard]

If you actually knew about the situation, vinny didn’t do anything, and the situation was made up to make him look bad, and the audio provided was spliced, please do your fucking research!!!!

I've had a bit of time to think about my responses and the information that's flying around at the moment. In hindsight, I didn't say much in my second post that I didn't already cover in my first post, and I understand why people would be upset with my input so far.

I'm going to have another shot at this, because the level of fatigue I had when I tackled this topic really didn't do me any favors. I think my first post was pretty solid, but I dropped the ball on the second post and I understand why someone would be upset with me over that. I'm sorry.

I would also like to say that as more information comes out about this, my opinion will likely continue to change. I'm open to new information. I'm coming to the best conclusions I can with the information that's been provided to me. This is an opinion, and opinions can and should evolve with new information.

And finally, I would ask that you stay with me on this post because A) it's really long and B) I'm going to explain myself to begin with and then go over some angles I didn't cover in my other posts - it's gonna look like I'm retreading the same old stuff to begin with, but I approach the subject with more nuance later on. I would ask that you reserve judgement until you read my final statement on the matter.

TL;DR - the question I'm concerned with is whether Vinny slept with fans or not. I don't have the answer to that question - though I personally think it looks likely - and so the extent of my feelings on the matter depend on whether this is the case or not.

Otherwise, I want to explain where I'm approaching this all from.

In my last posts, I mentioned power imbalances and inappropriate behaviour. I still stand by the basic tenets of what I said - a celebrity has a degree of power over someone who looks up to them, and that can easily create a relationship where one person puts in a lot more work to make the other person happy, or to maintain what they see as a once-in-a-lifetime relationship with someone they admire.

I would like to stress that this imbalance exists whether the more influential person acknowledges it or not. It can be "used" - Quinton Flynn comes to mind - but for the most part it's a neutral force that's inherent to a creator/fan relationship, and neither party may realise that this is the case until a breaking point is reached.

Fame, and the power that fame affords an individual, is relative - Vinny isn't Brad Pitt, but he still has influence with his fans. And as such, I find the notion of Vinny sleeping with fans to be inappropriate due to his inherent influence in the situation.

And so, that brings us to the main question of this post - does Vinny sleep with his fans?

Before I even attempt to answer that, I want to outline my feelings on the document. Because I want to make it clear that there are aspects of it that I don't agree with, and I'm not approaching this with an all-or-nothing mindset.

First of all, the first accusation uses some manipulative rhetoric. "Imagine if you were in that situation", "imagine how you'd feel if..." etc. I understand the point of it - personally, I think it's a useful piece of rhetoric to argue in favour of more humane policies, because if you can make someone understand an inhumane situation by putting them in someone else's shoes, you have a chance of getting through to them. If the accuser has gone through a hard time, I understand why they would want the reader to empathise with their plight.

But given that this is a document where we can't verify every little happening or goings-on that the accuser is presenting to us, it pays to be wary of that kind of rhetoric. And as we can't confirm everything being said here, I would be extra wary of rhetoric like that being used.

Secondly, the audio recording does seem to be stitched together - even the transcript is choppy as fuck. I don't buy that it's all from one single call, and that would indicate that the accuser is trying to paint a particular picture of him and take things out of context to make him look worse.

Though I have to ask - is there any question as to whether the man on the other end is Vinny?

If it was Vinny talking about giving someone HPV, and that someone was indeed a Vinesauce fan - then that says that Vinny does sleep with fans. And because of that, I would find his behavior inappropriate.

If we accept that this recording has been compromised, then I can't verify one way or the other - but if this was indeed the case, I would have to stick with my guns and condemn Vinny for behaving inappropriately.

So you might be thinking to yourself that by labelling this behavior as inappropriate, and suggesting that Vinny has engaged in it, I'm calling Vinny an abuser, or a pervert, or any number of things. I want to clarify what I'm saying.

The accusations levelled against him are heinous and far-reaching. You have people equating him to a pedophile for chatting up younger women, you have people painting him as a malicious abuser. I don't think this is that extreme. I am not trying to further such heinous accusations.

My take on Vinny from the start has been that while something in his relationships might have gone awry one way or the other, I don't think it necessarily comes from a place of malice. I think he's an awkward dude navigating a grey area between private life and the public eye. I like Vinny's content - I'm a long time fan. I sympathize with him, and I understand that opening this can of worms is extremely hard on him, especially if he didn't do anything wrong.

The issue is that if aspects of these accusations are true - and while there are aspects that can be called into question, I don't think we can throw everything out just yet - then it isn't unreasonable to assume that there has been some degree of harm that has resulted from Vinny's relationships with Vinesauce fans. Not intentional harm necessarily, but harm all the same.

I can't just block up my ears and walk away from that - if it's true, I have to take that into account. And outside of this entire narrative being proven false, that's the best case scenario.

I would like to stress that my take on all this is tied strongly to my personal values as a person. And considering that, I think it's important to address that the content creators I follow have engaged in behavior that goes against my values in the past.

I like Game Grumps - I think Danny sleeping with fans in a groupie sort of way is inappropriate. I didn't believe the worst aspects of his accusations because I saw that RantGrumps were involved and they've been trying to take him down for years - sure enough, the person accusing him of grooming her as a teenager ended up deleting her shit and disappearing. The story was suss, and it was pointed out that he didn't do anything untoward towards a minor which was the bulk of the backlash - but the fact remains that Dan sleeps with his fans, and I disagree with that for reasons I've laid out earlier in this post.

I feel similarly about this situation with Vinny. We don't know everything about this story yet, and aspects of the main allegations don't sit right with me. I don't think a fully accurate picture of the situation is being painted. Much like I sat out the biggest bombshells about Dan Avidan, I don't think it would be constructive or appropriate to go all in on any of this without verifying its truthfulness.

With Dan, we can say that we know about his dalliances with fans. I disagree with that, and I condemn that behavior. I think there's a very real potential for harm towards Game Grumps/NSP fans who sleep with Dan, stemming from Dan's influence. I have to take that into account if I'm going to enjoy the content he produces - and given that there is no malice here, I could come around and engage with Game Grumps content in the future with the understanding that Dan is on thin ice, and that there needs to be more responsibility on his part.

The question I'm asking is whether Vinny is having dalliances with his fans. If he is, then my feelings towards him are identical to the ones I just posted about Dan.

And so, that begs the question - has Vinny slept with his fans?

I think there's a chance he has - I haven't seen proof that he hasn't. In which case, I would think it should be said that that's inappropriate behaviour, and I can't condone that.

Do I necessarily believe that it would make Vinny a predator if this was true?

I don't feel comfortable making that much of a leap.

I think Quinton Flynn is a predator. I think there have been much less e-famous personalities who used their influence to get away with a lot worse - specifically in the Smash Bros. community.

I don't have all the answers, but I absolutely believe that painting Vinny as a predator is a step too far with the information we have.

So, to sum up my final thoughts:

I understand that we don't have the full story. There are aspects of the accusations that I don't trust. On the same token, I have seen women saying they've gotten in contact with Vinny and had relations with him, though the first example I saw of this did at least say that he was apparently decent about it. Even then, I can't say I agree with the notion that Vinny sleeps with his fans.

But given that Vinny hasn't acted with malicious intent, I can say that I could eventually come around and engage with Vinny's content in the future with the understanding that he's on thin ice, and that there needs to be more responsibility on his part. Of course, that's if he has slept with Vinesauce fans in the first place - which I have been led to believe, but can't say with 100% certainty.

We need the full story. And until we have a better understanding of all this, I can't say for sure what's true and what isn't.

If I have somehow missed the whole story, before I finished writing this post or while I was writing this post, then I understand that this post has been a wild goose chase - but all I'm seeing is more drama and accusations flying around about who was behind all this with no definitive answer about what's true and what isn't.

Until we know everything, this is where I stand. This is my view of the whole situation. I don't want any innocent party to suffer in all this, which is why I'm taking this approach. And I would like to stress above anything else that A) I'm open to new information that confirms or denies aspects of this situation, and B) I'm engaging in this discourse in good faith.

I'm still not over the Quinton Flynn stuff - as much of an open and shut case as it was, it was still a shock and a sad surprise to learn about what he did and accept that he was a scumbag. I'm still upset about the Close Your Eyes, Look At The Mountains stuff - I loved those comics, but Kaycee was right to speak out about her experiences.

I don't want this to be true about Vinny. I like Vinesauce. I've already lost faith in so many entertainers I used to think of in a positive light. But I can't write it all off until I have confirmation that it isn't true. That's the reality of the situation, and you're free to feel otherwise.

#vinesauce