#acotar discourse

[deathbealady]

wait a minute

was it ever explained how Brannagh and Dagdan are daemati and magically never fucking realized that Jurian was playing the King of Hybern like Tamlin playing a fiddle?

you mean to tell me that the sadistic and gross Brannagh and Dagdan never bothered to go into Jurian’s mind, not even just for shits and giggles because they like to torture humans??

I know SJM explains that Rhysand (and Feyre for that matter) didn’t think to check, but that’s also kind of a really stupid excuse. Yeah sure he’s gonna be mentally/emotionally/physically scarred from all the bs he’s been through, and it might’ve made him crazy in any number of ways, but he’s clearly of sound enough mind to be acting on behalf of Hybern in some capacity. Changing loyalties to turn against his own people is out of character to say the least, but certainly not outside the realm of possibility

Also, Jurian knew of daemati and expected them to do daemati things. He told Rhysand he figured he would’ve read his thoughts and known where his true loyalties lay. I don’t recall mention of him having mental shields, and as a human, how would he have known how to put any up? Doesn’t it require magic? And just assuming he could do it despite being human, how effectively would he be able to maintain such shields as a human, especially if he’s up against a more powerful and practiced daemati, let alone two??

Related: it’s established that daemati are not only able to read minds, but manipulate memories and essentially brainwash/control the minds of their targets. Why the fuck wouldn’t Rhysand check to see if Jurian hadn’t been brainwashed into serving the king of Hybern??? Especially after knowing that Hybern had at least 2 daemati rolling with Jurian, who could monitor and control his behavior in the Spring Court.

And for THAT matter, how did Brannagh and Dagdan not notice that Tamlin was also biding his time to double cross Hybern? I may be misremembering, but wasn’t there a whole-ass scene where Feyre had to go in and create mental shields for Tamlin and Lucien to protect them from Brannagh and Dagdan?? She protected his mind then, but it was also a lot of strain on her magic that was being sapped by the faebane. And in any case, it’s not a stretch to think Tamlin wouldn’t have met them before

It’s already stupid enough that a high lord like Tamlin and the son of a high lord like Lucien, somehow do not have training to protect themselves from daemati. It’s an especially stupid plot hole for Tamlin, who was once friends with Rhysand, and likely would’ve known about Rhysand’s abilities given their history. You mean to tell me that if he didn’t learn how to protect himself from daemati before or during their friendship, Tamlin just never thought “hey maybe I should learn to protect myself from daemati just in case”??? And especially not after the big falling out he’d had with Rhysand?!?!

This was honestly supposed to be a quick shower thoughts level post about Jurian but the more I thought about it, the more I realized NONE OF IT MAKES SENSE! These books truly do such terrible disservices to the most interesting characters and it is so painful to watch it happen

#daemati are powerfully useless apparently #jurian #tamlin #pro tamlin #anti rhysand #sjm critical #acotar #a court of thorns and roses #acotar discourse

[acourtofcriticalthinking]

i constantly see posts from antis that i can't even formulate replies for because they have no substance.

they write entire essays where they just talk in circles and use social justice buzzwords that give the entire post the vibe of a high school student trying to meet the word count. and because they're often in their own little echo chamber (stay there please) they're hyped up as these massive intellectuals. and then people add even more paragraphs filled with buzzwords and nothing until it's a novel's length of buzzwords and nothing.

i don't even read the entire posts anymore, i just clock the nonsense and move on.

#acotar discourse #acotar

[flat-neines]

>be me

>be really into fgo, world of darkness, etc. and start actively looking for fantasy with unique takes on creatures and stuff

>accidentally stumble upon a series called acotar and you look into it

>something seems familiar...

(I'm not trying to inspire discourse but- the parallels in those storylines are there and I can't unsee it)

#idk how I got here at all 😭 #I'm usually not this invested in fandom anymore #but #BUT #it would've been super cool that the series final arc actually was caused by the recurring dismissal and callousness of the fae #high fae in particular #towards humanity and the lesser faeries and the only way for the protags to get the help and manpower they needed from said groups #is taking accountability and repairing those schisms made and maintained by the prev generations #but alas #that means consequences and character development #🙃 #I still hc that prythian is made of the daglan's corpses tho #acotar discourse #acotar? #please don't tag this as pro feysand or whatever #i dont like the inner circle #anti sjm

[copypastus]

Sign me up for the tithe in the Spring Court I hear rent prices in Velaris went up again.

#my art #acotar #acotar fanart #lucien vanserra #pro tamlin #tamlin #very serious tithe discourse #it's not that bad acctually #i'm so tired of seeing serious arguments about it #you - bean brained: tamlin and lucien as robin hood villains laughing and extorting his poor citizens from all their gold #me - galaxy brained: tamlin using all the consumables his citizens give him to feed all the fae he allows FREELY INTO HIS HOUSE #at least tamlin won't condemn my wholeass apartment complex coz he had a fight with his sister in law #anti sjm #trying to make tamlin look bad still accidentally looks good if you PAY ATTENTION FEYRE

[ofbreathandflame]

and also just to add one thing my last point:

i think the toxic canon thing really forms a basis for the foundational problems of the series - narrative. its one of the reasons i believe feyre often gets dubbed an 'unreliable narrator.

because in theory - feyre is not made purposely to be unreliable. honestly - the problem is that the story makes feyre's thoughts declarative for the series as whole. feyre tells us one thing, and the story shows us another.

for example: when the story tells us 'tamlin didn't fight for me,' - its implying that tamlin has the tools to do so. bc the story establishes an entirely difference scenario. we learn that (1) amarantha is madly obsessed with tamlin, so she keeps him next to her every night and (2) tamlin doesn't really have skills to navigate utm. what im saying is - feyre says these things about tamlin which are dubbed 'canon' but they don't actually reflect the reality of the situation. the story gives us to no solutions as to how tamlin could have actually helped feyre under the mountain. and i should also add that feyre couldnt have left ANYWAY -- she made a bargain. had she not did her part, the trials, her life would have just been forfeit.

and then on the flip side - we get told that rhys had to bring feyre to those parties and drug her so would forget (which is dubbed canon) but the reality of the scenario doesn't reflect that. rhysand never had to make feyre dance or embarrass her infront of everybody.

why? let's look at the established information:

rhysand disables the guards through his daemati abilities, so feyre is safe in her cell:

“No more household chores, no more tasks,” he said, his voice an erotic caress. Their yellow eyes went glazed and dull, their sharp teeth gleaming as their mouths slackened. “Tell the others, too. Stay out of her cell, and don’t touch her. If you do, you’re to take your own daggers and gut yourselves. Understood?”Dazed, numb nods, then they blinked and straightened. I hid my trembling. Glamour, mind control—whatever it was he had done, it worked. They beckoned—but didn’t dare touch me. Rhysand smiled at me. “You’re welcome,” he purred as I walked out.”

2. feyre is given a hot meal in her cell everyday - which again, establishes her cell as a relatively safe place:

“From that point on, each morning and evening, a fresh, hot meal appeared in my cell. I gobbled it down but cursed Rhysand’s name anyway. Stuck in the cell, I had nothing to do but ponder Amarantha’s riddle—usually only to wind up with a pounding headache. I recited it again and again and again, but to no avail.”

and even after she has to dance every night, this does not change:

“I awoke ill and exhausted each morning, and though Rhysand’s order to the guards had indeed held, the nightly activities left me thoroughly drained.”

so - the whole point of taking feyre out of cell is instantly negated, as her cell was never a place of torture. if anything - the only person actually making her cell a place of horror was rhysand. when he drugs her, she becomes so sick that she can't keep the food down; he leaves her essentially naked in her cell, so she's cold and shivering, and her leaves her so exhausted that she can't even think about the solving the riddle.

3. nuala and cerridwen have the ability to walk through walls and actually usher feyre through utm without ever being seen or caught:

“a tapestry that hadn’t been there a moment before falling over us, the shadows deepening, solidifying. I had a feeling that if someone pulled back that tapestry, they would see only darkness and stone.”

so when we get this line in maf:

“So we endured it. I made you dress like that so Amarantha wouldn’t suspect, and made you drink the wine so you would not remember the nightly horrors in that mountain.”

or his explanation in tar:

“Working Tamlin into a senseless fury is the best weapon we have against her. Seeing you enter into a fool’s bargain with Amarantha was one thing, but when Tamlin saw my tattoo on your arm … Oh, you should have been born with my abilities, if only to have felt the rage that seeped from him.” I didn’t want to think much about his abilities. “Who’s to say he won’t splatter you as well?” “Perhaps he’ll try—but I have a feeling he’ll kill Amarantha first. That’s what it all boils down to, anyway: even your servitude to me can be blamed on her. So he’ll kill her tomorrow,”

none it actually make sense. we are offered several solutions to how rhys could have respectively helped feyre without sexually assaulting her. like for (1) if he wanted her to forget, he could have given her the wine in her cell (2) he didn't have to bring feyre to those parties. amarantha doesn't even remember feyre is there until rhys brings her, and she never finds out about the food or the guards. (3) nuala and cerridwen can actually walk through walls and veil feyre, so whose to say they couldn't have sneaked feyre from utm (4) rhys can mindspeak which means he could have always just talked to feyre without visiting her cell. (3) his plan of 'making tamlin angry makes no sense as the book already established that amarantha was warded against physical attacks, hence why it makes no sense for the story to demonize tamlin for not fighting back as there's no established canon way he could have. it also makes rhysand's display of fighting amarantha pretty much pointless as if he could have just killed her, he would have just done it earlier. its also why i don't forgive the kiss bc the only valid motivation was rhysand's jealousy which literally is why i can never forgive the kiss. he (and tam) put her in the situation by bringing her there in the first place and putting the paint all over her body (and he literally prove that he could altered the paint at any time so it served no benefit but to dehumanize feyre.

soooooo that's what i mean when i say people take canon without factoring into the story as a whole. if the story doesn't actually have things that back up declarative 'canon' statements, its not useful.

#anti sjm #anti rhysand #anti sjm: feyre archeron #anti feysand #tamlin #anti acotar #anti acomaf #canon discourse #anti feyre

[littlefeltsparrow]

Please save me from the hell on earth that is ACOTAR Tik Tok. What even is this.

And just when I thought: “surely there can’t be that many people who agree with Rhysand’s decision to keep that secret from Feyre. SURELY most people would be sensible enough to see how egregiously violating that is. Obviously there wouldn’t be too many people who agree with his line of thinking haha that would be crazy.”

These people prove me wrong every single time.

They go on to say that Feyre “wouldn’t be able to make a choice” and doesn’t that just say it all? Isn’t that the perfect demonstration of the way these people will overlook ANYTHING when it comes to justifying their pseudo-morally-grey king? It all boils down to people discussing Feyre like she’s a weak little waif who will blow away with the breeze, like she can’t possibly contribute to solving a crisis like this. NO! According to these people, since Feyre is too mentally fragile to handle matters concerning her own body, she needs her big strong husband to make medical decisions for her. HE gets to decide what’s best for her. (Hm I wonder where I’ve heard that before?)

Tell me, why wouldn’t Feyre be able to help with resolving this situation? Her powers couldn’t help her? She wouldn’t take a risk to save her child and husband’s life? Don’t tell me that Feyre would’ve been too feeble and weak to handle the information just because she’s pregnant, there were definitely other options for resolving this issue.

And don’t even try me with the “Nesta was so spiteful! She only wanted to hurt her sister!” Nonsense because I’ve heard it all. Let’s not try to shift the blame onto the one that actually had the courage to speak up and get the situation moving instead of Rhysand who violated Feyre’s trust in him (after he promised her he wouldn’t do that) Perhaps these people should consider that maybe if Rhysand hadn’t been so paranoid and myopic about everything then maybe this pregnancy wouldn’t have risked causing a political catastrophe in the Night Court.

#anti sjm #Rhysand is a scumbag #sjm critical #anti rhysand #pro nesta #acotar #anti acosf #anti feysand #a court of silver flames #feyre archeron #nesta archeron #acotar critical #acotar fandom #fandom discourse

[bookishfeylin]

People LEGITIMATELY believe that no one could possibly be harmed or killed during the toppling of a government on the brink of invasion…

What are the Feysand stans on??????

#AND y'all expect me to take this seriously as legitimate high fantasy with good worldbuilding?!?! 🫠 #Anyway this is why I don’t vibe with other Feyre stans because you don’t call her white girlboss feminism exactly what it is #acotar analysis #anti acomaf #SJM critical #acotar #Spring court discourse

[pastelpinkkadan]

Not naming the blog (because I’ve blocked them), but there’s someone who is just FLOODING the Elriel, Gwynriel, and Elucien tags with things that toxic people in the fandom have done/said.

Which on one hand, sure, it can be helpful to know these things have happened and make comments on how we can be better as a fandom.

But at the same time, for the last two days that has been the MAJORITY of what I’ve seen in the Elriel tag. I don’t really think it’s helpful when it’s to that level. In fact, at that point I think it would just create more discourse and more drama. Especially when some of the posts are things people have said/done months or even years ago.

Idk, something about it just doesn’t feel right.

#acotar #acosf #elriel #gwynriel #elucian #fandom discourse

[aqueerincrisis]

i think one of the biggest damages to fandom spaces that social media (and the sort of instant gratification that it spawned) is that nuance is dying.

every fandom i enter (some to a worse degree than others i will admit) is just teeming with bad takes with no nuance. you can't acknowledge a good part of a character without being attacked for supporting someone who's done abc and suddenly being labeled an xyz apologist.

this leads to these dynamic and interesting characters being viewed only through a binary of right and wrong, which destroys the very things that make them feel real and human.

everyone is racing to be morally right in an age where awareness of social injustice is rising and as a result they're either forcing issues that aren't there to criticize a character or ripping them to shreds just to feel morally superior. in doing so not only are they ruining the stories and characters, but they're making these real world issues come off as frivolous and unimportant, when there are actual bodies of work that properly and intentionally explore them.

#i wrote this thinking about miguel ohara and the acotar fandom specifically #but i know it's applicable far and wide #i'm not in acotar anymore but i do lurk sometimes and it keeps getting worse over there #and don't even get me started on how some people just BUTCHER miguel #it's beyond frustrating #fandom discussion #fandom discourse

[bloomingdarkgarden]

Hurricane CC3:

is t-60 days from landing on a kindle near you.

Followed by a hailstorm of ACOTAR content that will likely set up the premise for the next book.

Fan theories will shatter like stormproofless windows. Blogs will collapse into the sea. People will throw each other off life boats and grasp to stay afloat on a flimsy doorframe of lost hope.

Some will take it all with grace.

Some will not.

I personally will be sheltering Elain Archeron with my entire body and soul no matter where the waters take us.

Anyway, in the words of this man:

PUT ON YOUR MF LIFE BELTS ON PEOPLE.

#cc3 #sjm #acotar #acotar fandom #discourse

[deathbealady]

Y’ALL. I had a very important revelation while yelling about ACOTAR with a friend today

I’m sure everyone has realized this already but please humor me bc I’m simply raging from this revelation

So, remember how in ACOMAF or ACOWAR (sorry I forget which, but I know it’s one of them), Feyre had told Rhysand that she wanted to live and enjoy her new immortal life with Rhysand before they went on to try for kids? And then, in ACOFAS, she immediately changed her mind and decided she wanted to have Rhysand’s baby? That old thing?

Well, my friend and I were talking about how we didn’t like this change of mind for Feyre and thought it was stupid and unnecessary. I mean, sure Feyre is allowed to change her mind but like, stay with me for a moment on this

Feyre specifically changed her mind because she met that lady who lost her husband and said she didn’t even have kids to have that part of him left. Yes, I can understand how hearing the woman’s story can hit hard. It was very sad, and I get how Feyre would hear that and be like “I’m so lucky to still have my husband” and “we should make the most of any and all time we left have together” and that’s why she decides they should have a baby right now after all, bc omg what if Rhysand dies again????

Except… Feyre literally never has to imagine a world where one is left behind with no part of the other left, because they fully had a conversation that went: “hey. if I die, you die?” “bet”

They made that irresponsible AF death pact at the end of ACOWAR, so they have nothing BUT time in the world together! They will literally never have to live without each other!! Which makes the whole plot point of Feyre rushing into having kids even stupider than it already was, because Feyre made the decision based on a literally impossible hypothetical situation

Feyre:

This kind of bs is what I’m talking about when I say Feyre is so dumb it’s embarrassing. It’s really so fucking sad because (like so much else in the ACOTAR series) she could’ve been really great, if only SJM would get out of her own way 🙃

#feyre critical #anti rhysand #sjm critical #acotar discourse #someone please use the cauldron to make a brain for feyre

[edanmaia]

nahh bc gw/ynriels were using the hosab leaks to say crazy shit 💀

when elriels were talking about the bread and roses + the townhouse and then the gw/ynriels had to save face by saying bread and roses had NOTHING to do with elain after diminishing her solely to a baker and a gardener 💀💀💀

#dusks' truth sent the elriels into chaos #but gwyn/riels were saying crazy things too #the bread and roses discourse was so funny #elriel #anti gwynriel #this has nothing to do w hofas either its just about the acotar ship wars

[acourtofcriticalthinking]

i agree that sjm is an ass writer and i will always support slander, but i'm so sick of people putting the fault on her in the whole debate about wether nesta and elain contributed in the cabin.

it's not because sjm undervalues "traditionally female domestic labour" that we're told they don't. it's because these are two women who grew up rich with servants not contributing to a household. wether they did it on purpose or because they genuinely didn't know how, we get zero indication that nesta and elain contribute.

i genuinely hesitate to even weigh in on this because there's nothing to debate. whoever is arguing they contributed have no actual textual evidence. just snippets they pull that they claim mean nesta and elain were contributing and we just didn't see it.

#cabin discourse #feyre archeron #nesta archeron #elain archeron #acotar

[zenkindoflove]

I'm old so I remember fandom pre Tumblr. The days of making character or ship focused livejournal communities. Or fanforum and having your own fandom board or ship thread that you kept alive by renaming each new one with fun quotes about your ship after you reached 300 posts. There was a clear understanding of what was neutral fandom territory and what was not.

The point is is that Tumblr has never been a place that allows for fandoms and shippers to have proper boundaries. And much of the current toxicity in ship wars and character hate are amplified by the forced publicness that Tumblr, Twitter, and TikTok all have. It's not a bad thing to have negative opinions or vent frustrations. But the way that Tumblr puts all the onerousness on you as an individual to curate your experience definitely contributes to more "cross talk" than we used to have in fandoms. It can be done but you'll always have a few things you don't want to see slip through. That is the nature of using this platform. When those boundaries are fluid, so too do the social norms and rules about how to fandom become squishy, and people have a hard time understanding what belongs to them vs what is community space because Tumblr makes it so that it all bleeds together. Your blog is also a part of the community and vice versa.

I highly recommend to find yourself a private space with like minded fandom friends to get your aggression out. And to experience what unencumbered fangirling - both the highs and the lows - without the watchful eyes of others. It's freeing and it is good for the soul. It kind of makes you realize that not everything has to be shared on your blog. Or that you have to tell others how to use their blogs or tags. Because that fight is never going to be won. I haven't ever seen it since I started using this site in 2011, and this has been a part of the discourse in every fandom I've been in since I joined tumblr.

This is sort of an ode to the old internet. It was the wild west but we also had a much easier time making spaces for ourselves that didn't depend on social media or algorithms pushing content at you. The internet was what you made it and so too was fandom. We were less reliant on single websites. We were more dispersed but in some ways that at least allowed us to find the exact home we wanted. That internet doesn't really exist anymore unfortunately and a part of making friends to create your fandom space is having to roll around in the mud of these big platforms.

#this is of course speaking to the constant discourse going on in ACOTAR fandom #but is really about fandoms largely #dont get me wrong #Tumblr is a safer space than the other sites #but its not optimized for community building

[xadenviolct]

You know what I find almost... IDK, sad but funny, I guess--when it comes to the SJM/ACOTAR fandom?

The ship wars.

I remember a time (an age ago and in other fandom circles) where everyone was just "ship and let ship". We all had our faves, our OTPs and even our NOTPS. We all had our PREFERENCES and opinions and like-- that's just normal human nature. What one person likes, another will not, and vice versa.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with such a thing!

But what the ACOTAR fandom reminds me so much of is the OUAT fandom when it comes to ships. And damn, that was a nasty time. A horrible time (a lot like what SJM's books bring out in people today on the internet).

Because it became about attacking people, hating on people, thinking one side was dumb or delusional or stupid and it was just downright HATEFUL. The whole "us versus them" mentality was sickening and, while that, too, is part of human nature (sadly), at the end of the day, it all boiled down to one thing:

It was all FICTION, and some people were outright hating on/insulting REAL PEOPLE over such things.

The ACOTAR fandom gives me major flashbacks to that OUAT time. Just saying.

So here's the basic thing I've learned after time in many different fandoms, after many different ships and faves and whatnot:

Stay in your lane. Ship and let ship. Canon will be whatever it is (it might be "your" ship and it might be "their" ship, who knows; that's the AUTHOR'S/WRITERS' decision), but you know what the fucking beautiful thing about fandom is--

WE CAN DO (AND SHIP) WHATEVER AND WHOMEVER THE HELL WE WANT.

I'm gonna use OUAT since that canon is over, whereas ACOTAR is still-ongoing for an example. Canon-wise? Captain Swan (Killian/Emma) ended up together, happily ever after.

Did that mean those who shipped Swan Queen were wrong? That they couldn't participate in fandom? That they were somehow stupid or whatever other insult one side hurled at the other?

Fuck no. Swan Queen fans got from the story what they wanted, and there is nothing at all wrong with them continuing stories and art and whatnot with those characters and ships. Same for Captain Swan. The beauty of fandom is that shared ENJOYMENT of a source material and the potential to "what if" our way anywhere and everywhere.

Personally, I feel there's more story telling potential in an Elriel story than an Elucien story, but you know what? If SJM writes the book and it turns out Elucien, I have absolute faith in her that she will make the story work. That it will be written in a way for me to see it better (I mean, c'mon, lots of opinions changed on Nesta herself after ACOSF so let's be honest... it's bound to do the same with Elain in her book.)

But also-- whichever way it turns out (Elucien, Elriel, whatever), that is one version of the canon story. You want to ship the hell out of the other version? Fucking go for it!

Quit insulting each other for what one person likes/enjoys and just-- enjoy your stuff.

#acotar #sjm #elriel #elucien #elain #azriel #lucien vanserra #reading #stories #fantasy #books #fandom #ship wars #ouat #fandom discourse #ramblings of a mad woman #personal #okay that got a long longer than I initially intended #I'm sorry for rambling #But yeah just-- #enjoy what you enjoy and stay in your lane and ultimately remember that there are LIVING humans on the other side

[folklorianhaze]

“pro” this, “anti” that, have u considered all the characters in this series are extremely hot nd sexy and I just want them to fuck and be happy

#acotar #all jokes aside I obviously do have ships I prefer and stuff lol #but realistically it’s just not something I get super angry about and I try to keep the canon ship discourse stuff off my page if I can #in the past I’ve really let myself rant about that stuff but I’ve since just decided it makes me angry #and I don’t have to entertain that stuff or be angry if I don’t want to be you know?? #these are fictional characters and I have my preferences but at the end of the day this blog is chill #and if you don’t spout misogynistic or hateful bullshit you are welcome here no matter what you ship <3