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uptoolateart · 1 year

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Sentimonsters vs Frankenstein's Monster

My six-year-old says Adrien can't be a sentimonster because he's too nice...and I'm back here with another essay.

I think some of our views on sentimonsters are wrapped up in our linguistic connotations for the word 'monster'. It has an interesting origin, probably related to words like 'demonstrate' or 'remonstrate'. Monsters are creatures that indicate or show us something...maybe about ourselves.

When Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein, she used 'monster' to refer to something unnatural, made by man rather than God. This has precedent in older tales such as the minotaur, who was monstrous for being an animal-human hybrid and therefore also unnatural, not as the gods intended. Usually in such stories, the monsters are hidden, the way we try to hide the 'monstrous' parts of ourselves.

When the sentimonsters were first introduced into Miraculous, they seemed 'monstrous' in the horror sense, e.g. Feast. When senti-Ladybug showed up, we saw that 'monster' could refer to any living being created by a human rather than being naturally brought into this world by whatever means you believe we end up here.

As soon as you start thinking of Frankenstein, the parallels just keep coming, so here we go!

Gabriel vs Victor

The most obvious parallel is that of Gabriel Agreste vs Victor Frankenstein. Victor first decides to create his monster after his mother dies. Grief and love drive him to rebel against nature and reanimate the dead.

Similarly, Gabriel is driven to find the miraculous after the death of his wife. He too seeks the means to reanimate someone. Gabriel has also created life by unnatural means. At the very least, this is Felix and Kagami. I believe Adrien is also a sentimonster. (If you know the answer via leaks, please don't confirm this in comments, as I am watching in order and avoiding all spoilers.)

In the novel, the monster kills Victor's wife. If the full senti-Adrien theory holds true, then he indirectly and unknowingly killed Emilie.

In his grief, Victor drops out of society and sinks deeper and deeper into his project, hiding away in his laboratory, fueled by ambition. Gabriel too dropped out of the public eye and went into his lair, obsessed with his own ambitions. Obviously neither of them ever heard any zombie stories, or they would have known it never goes well.

Family / Acceptance / Appearances

The key journey throughout Frankenstein is the monster's search for love, family and acceptance. He is rejected by his creator - whom he calls 'Father' - just as Adrien is not truly accepted by his father Gabriel.

The monster seeks a new family, finding one living in the woods, on the fringes of society, as if this is the only way to find true warmth. The family consists of a brother and two sisters, and the monster wishes to be their brother. One sister is blind and befriends the monster based on his kindness. It is only when the others finally meet him that he's rejected, because they are repelled by his appearance. Interestingly, the brother is named Felix....

Probably if the monster had looked like Adrien, this family - and everyone else in the novel - would have been won over. In fact, Miraculous makes such a point of describing Adrien as 'the image of perfection' that it could be seen as a purposeful contrast with Frankenstein, as if Gabriel learned from Victor's mistakes.

The novel suggest that if you're ugly on the outside, it can make you ugly on the inside...but only because people will react badly to you and hurt you so much that you will be bent and twisted with resentment and rage. In Miraculous, we have beautiful people like Adrien, Felix and Kagami. Society reacts to them well - so what does that make them inside? Felix is perhaps the most interesting part of this because he's quite ugly inside, despite looking just like Adrien on the outside. The show suggests that appearances can be deceiving, a message we see again and again through the theme of masks and hidden identities. It also suggests that we can be more than we were 'made' or groomed to be - a point we'll come back to later.

But let's remember that everyone on Miraculous has a shadow, a hidden darkness - the monsters they don't want anyone to see. These come out when people get akumatised. It's love and warmth that bring us back into the fold, as it were. Perhaps if Frankenstein's monster had a Marinette, he would have had a different fate, just as Ladybug saves Adrien from being doomed to an eternity as Cat Blanc.

Loss of Innocence / Kindness and Forgiveness

Frankenstein's monster has the appearance of an adult (sort of) but he is a child, a newborn seeing the world with fresh eyes. Similarly, Adrien begins Miraculous sheltered from the world, getting his first taste of society when he enrolls in school.

In Frankenstein, the monster seems to be the only character who demonstrates compassion and forgiveness of others' transgressions. There is a kind of childishness to it, a naivety. Kids are always shocked when they get hurt. They have to learn to put up boundaries and protect themselves. The adult world is, unfortunately, full of selfishness and hurtfulness and corruption (along with goodness!).

Frankenstein is a story populated entirely by adults, so there really is no reprieve from the cynicism and bleakness. In Miraculous, we see this from the adults, too - but there are other kids, and many of them are basically kind and loving. Even so, Adrien is arguably the most forgiving, patient, compassionate character. We could see this as part of his innocence, and the loss of that innocence is another similar theme. Both he and the monster slowly have their eyes opened to the cruelties humans are capable of.

They both also learn what cruelties they are capable of - although Adrien hasn't truly discovered this yet, because Marinette has hidden the Cat Blanc episode from him. He needs to know so he can face, accept and deal with his own inner darkness. Otherwise, it will always be waiting in the wings for him.

The Search for Identity

A crucial feature of Frankenstein was the monster's search for identity and a path. He was a blank slate, unsure who he was. And can we even say 'he'? He was made from male body parts but he never grew up as a boy - he never grew up at all. He just entered the world fully formed (sort of) and was expected to insinuate himself into adult life. Who even was he?

We see this mirrored in episodes like Wishmaker, where Adrien reveals what a blank slate he is. I won't go into this here, because I talked about this in depth in my Kagami analysis after Perfection. If he learns he's a sentimonster, it just compounds it - although I won't go into this here because I've spent 107,000 words going into it in one of my current fics...let's not add that to a Tumblr post...! Suffice to say, he will have a lot to process.

Fate vs Free Will

At the novel's conclusion, Victor Frankenstein is killed by his own creation. It's poetic justice - or karma - or simply inevitable. Mary Shelley subtitled Frankenstein 'A Modern Prometheus Story', referring to the old tale of Prometheus attempting to steal fire from the gods and being punished for getting above himself. I suppose we are all waiting for Gabriel to receive his punishment, and there is an expectation that a lot of it has to come from Adrien himself,. Indirectly, it has, because it was his cataclysm that caused Gabriel to start falling to pieces. However, crucially, Gabriel was the one who used that cataclysm on himself, which sets Miraculous apart from Frankenstein in a big way.

Last night, a friend asked me: 'Does [Adrien being a sentimonster] not cheapen his whole journey about breaking free from the abuse? Because he can't, because it's magic...versus it just being that it's hard emotionally when it's someone you love.'

I think this needs to be looked at symbolically. A big part of Frankenstein was the exploration of the idea of genetics (a new concept in that era) vs upbringing - nature vs nurture. Did the monster ever stand a chance? Similarly, did Adrien? Or Felix? Or Kagami? Are they - and therefore we - all victims of programming? Can they / we ever break free of that programming? Do we get some kind of exemption card if we never break free, because we were doomed to destiny?

I'll liken this to other genetic conditions. I have Tourette's Syndrome, which means there are a lot of things I can't do - like underwater swimming. But you know...maybe I can, because I used to think I could never drive, too. Then, years later, I decided to take lessons and discovered that it's perfectly safe for me. I found ways to overcome the disability.

We can apply this to all kinds of people - think of athletes and musicians missing limbs, for instance, or Beethoven continuing to compose music even long after he'd gone deaf. Humans are capable of the most remarkable things, if they want it enough.

We all start with a kind of programming - that genetic code, our family set-up, and so forth. What cannot be programmed is our emotional and behavioural responses to that programming. When our emotions conflict with our programming, it's painful. Overcoming that programming is hard.

We see Adrien being controlled by the ring, forced to obey his father. However, he still feels things beyond that. In Risk, he tells Marinette he keeps wanting to tell his father things but he feels a block in his mind. There is a line he can't cross. We can say he's been made this way.

Taken symbolically, a lot of kids feel this way. Parents don't need magic rings to control and manipulate their children or demand that they be the people the parents want them to be. Adrien's struggle is actually the same struggle so many teenagers go through. This is one of the key aspects of Miraculous I have always related to.

If Adrien is indeed a sentimonster, he has been designed (groomed) to feel deep discomfort at opposing his father, to the point where it feels as if he's attacking himself. To break free of Gabriel's control and abuse is to discard everything he was raised to believe he was. He will truly be a blank slate, starting over entirely. Without Gabriel dictating who he is...who is Adrien Agreste? He will be a newborn again, in a nearly adult body - just like Frankenstein's monster.

As someone who grew up in a household of abuse, I went through all of this myself. I don't think the sentimonster angle cheapens this journey. I think it is a fantastical idea that serves as an allegory for something very real that many people go through.

And as we grow up...well, there's only so much that you can blame on your father. Frankenstein's monster may have had every reason to hate his creator, but they were still his hands around Elizabeth's throat, and it was still him who killed Victor in the Arctic. Adrien can blame Gabriel for plenty, but crucially in Cat Blanc, when he found out the truth and was prepared to cataclysm his own father, he held back at the last second. He didn't cross the line the monster crossed, and that's because of free will.

They may both have been programmed in some way, and that's the fate side of things that can be likened to genetics. But we're more than just a jumble of DNA, and Adrien is more than the magic I believe created him. So is Felix, and that makes every bad thing Felix has ever done 100% on him to atone for.

We could get tangled up in thoughts like: 'Maybe Adrien was just made so good that he could never knowingly cataclysm his father,' or, 'Maybe it was the block in his mind that stopped him.' But I don't believe this. Fate decided that cataclysm would happen anyway, but it was Gabriel who did it to himself.

We all have choices and Adrien made the crucial one - the choice not to become like his father. Because ultimately, Frankenstein poses the question: 'Who is the true monster in this story?' The answer, as we all know, is Victor himself...although his creation becomes monstrous as the story progresses. In the same way, Gabriel is the monster of Miraculous.

The difference is that Adrien makes better choices and is surrounded by the love he needs to keep him on a better path than Frankenstein's monster. Through his friends, especially Marinette/Ladybug, he is finding the family the monster wanted so desperately but never had. The monster concluded that he needed Victor to make him an equally monstrous companion because no one else would ever accept him. Adrien does not need to resort to this.

Adrien may be a 'sentimonster' but he will never be a 'monster'.

Please no post-Perfection spoilers in the comments :)

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fabizetha · 2 years

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I'm pretty sure that things in Adrien's mind are like "yeah, I'm a bit popular, but beside that I'm a pretty normal dude" and then he's this rich traumatized famous model sentibeing who has been locked up all his childhood and didn't get a proper social development and who also lives with this cheese-adicted god of destruction and can turn into a catboy heroe and save the city from ridiculous monsters created for his own father (who can turn into a butterfly villain) all because he wanna destroy the whole word to create a new one where his wife's still alive and doesn't care anymore if his sentison gets hurt

#adrien agreste #chat noir #gabriel agreste #plagg #miraculous #miraculous ladybug #mlb #ladybug #adrien sentimonster theory

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sfigatino · 2 years

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It’s not my fault, it’s not so wrong to wonder why everybody dies…. And when will I?

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luckygirl102 · 2 years

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No, Adrien and Félix are not sentimonsters. They are twins

ATTENTION: This article was written BEFORE SEASON 5 AIRING. It can be considered OUTDATED, but NOT WRONG. Also, it points the cointinuity errors that Thomas Astruc commited when he decided to turn Adrien and Félix sentimonsters. The series forwarding does not deppend on me. Any reproduction of this article (entirely of partially) without asking permition is not allowed.

A popular theory among the Miraculers is that Adrien could be a sentimonster. After the episode “Gabriel Agreste,” Félix was included in it, which gained force after the Season 4’s final episodes: “Risk” and “Strikeback.” Ambassador Feri González’s declaration about “having known about ‘Senti Adrien’ since Season 2” strengthened the conviction of the idea’s defenders.

Despite its many arguments, the thesis about Adrien has many holes, which are enough to completely refute it. The same goes for the hypothesis about Félix. Supporters of the theory are so attached to it that they ignore an idea that is simpler and makes more sense: Adrien and Félix are identical twins, and Gabriel stole one of them in the maternity ward. To better understand this subject, this text will address all the arguments presented in the discussion and show why Adrien and Félix are indeed twins and not sentimonsters.

(Note: The text is NOT intended to attack or hurt anyone, only to contribute to the debate.)

1- There are no “identical cousins,” only identical twins

Félix was introduced in Miraculous Ladybug as Adrien’s cousin. They look exactly alike (even Amelie says they look like twins). That fact is very curious since cousins can’t be born identical. Even if two identical twins (like Emilie, Adrien’s mother, and Amelie, Félix’s mother) marry two identical twins, their children are not born alike (although they have many similar genes). Those who want to understand better can read the article “If twin brothers marry twin sisters, will their children be identical?” by Luiza Andrade (web link in sources), which has the book The Human Body as its reference. Thenceforth, the theory that Félix is Amelie’s son with a possible identical twin brother of Gabriel, or even Gabriel himself (if that were so, all siblings, twins or not, would look the same) is discarded.

(Note: The case of identical twins Brittany and Briana Deane, who married identical twins Josh and Jeremy Salyers and had identical children, Jett and Jax, is reported sensationally in the media. Although very similar, having virtually sibling DNA, the little boys will show their differences more clearly as they grow up. It’s harder to notice them in babies.)

Félix and Adrien in “Félix”

Félix’s origin is linked to the first concept of Cat Noir, which was discarded by Thomas Astruc as a cliché. The series creator repurposed the character and put him in another context. That is one of the reasons why Adrien and Félix are identical, but it’s not the only one. As explained before, there are no equal cousins in real life. Even in fiction, it’s not very common. One example is the TV show Hannah Montana, which introduced Luanne Stewart as an identical cousin of the protagonist Miley Stewart. However, there is a big difference between the two cases. Luanne is an irrelevant character to the show, created to appear in just one episode. Therefore, that unreal element does not affect the reasoning of the central narrative. Félix, on the contrary, is central to several Miraculous Ladybug’s arcs, such as the Agreste family’s and the Hawk Moth’s. Therefore, he’s a character that requires development and attention, and his resemblance to Adrien cannot be a mere chance.

Félix's original version

2- Identical twins with different personalities are common in fiction

Although equal in looking, Adrien and Félix have very different personalities. Adrien is friendly and naive, while Félix is introverted and clever. Countless stories (of varied genres) have identical twins with opposite mentalities and “switch places.” That is what happens, for example, with Hiashi and Hizashi Hyuuga, from Naruto: Hizashi is wise and brave, while Hiashi is stubborn and, in some ways, coward (strong to face enemies but weak to fight the injustices of his clan). Hizashi even goes so far as to impersonate Hiashi to save his brother’s life.

The concept of “good twin and evil twin” is so common it can even be considered cliché. Stories like the book and movie The Man in the Iron Mask, the soap opera Deceptions (La usurpadora), and even a special Halloween episode of The Simpsons all bring that element. So far, Félix can be considered the “evil twin” and Adrien the “good twin,” but it depends on what are Félix’s real intentions. For now, he has shown evil, but many fans (myself included) believe he may be tricking Gabriel* to defeat him later. Remembering that Félix is very smart and, as a Graham of Vanily, not just doesn’t trust Gabriel but considers him an enemy for having taken possession of his family’s rings. That mistrust, for sure, increased after Félix discovered Emilie’s dead body in the Agreste Manor’s basement. Then, he may have given that ring to his uncle as a retreat to later advance his plan to defeat him.

(*This possibility of Félix’s double-play furthers my theory that he could form a couple with Zoé. Learn more in “Why Lukloé won’t happen, but Lukagami will.”)

Félix and Adrien in “Risk”

Therefore, Adrien and Félix being twins would not be surprising in Miraculous Ladybug, as it addresses a common idea in fiction. Despite that theme being somewhat dramatic, the series has a history of approaching mature subjects, especially from Season 4.

The creation of Félix from a discarded idea’s relocation is the starting point of his development, which allowed another mystery to be inserted in the Agreste family arc. Félix and Adrien are yet another representation of yin-yang, an element very present in Miraculous Ladybug (the other being Cat Noir and Ladybug themselves and their miraculouses). They are antagonistic and simultaneously complement each other. Félix develops from Adrien and Adrien develops from Félix. Since even simple details aren’t inserted in an audiovisual series at random, it would be no different with an interpersonal characteristic that dialogues so much with the show’s theme.

3- Gabriel is fully capable of kidnapping a child

Gabriel Agreste has proven to be one of the most perverse villains in fiction. He simply has no scruples and goes to great lengths to achieve his goals, no matter the consequences. In light of that and the previous explanations about Adrien and Félix being twins, it is possible to imagine that the Butterfly Miraculous holder is responsible for the “emergence” of “identical cousins.”

Gabriel’s interest in the Graham de Vanily Twin Rings is curious. In “Félix,” Amelie clears that they must stay with the family. Therefore, it is strange that the Grahams of Vanily “authorized” Emilie and Gabriel to wear them as wedding rings, knowing that she would become an Agreste. Amelie’s insistence on taking them back after her sister’s death proves that the family doesn’t accept that they are with third parties, including their members’ spouses. Even aware of this, her brother-in-law feels entitled to keep the rings with him. We note that Gabriel has a habit of taking possession of things that don’t belong to him (the miraculouses and the rings), and he uses people for this. Nathalie got the miraculouses for her boss, and Emilie may have taken her family’s treasure at her husband’s behest. From what he did to Nooroo in “Sandboy” (having made Kwami’s mouth close momentarily with a snap of his fingers) and the hints in “Gabriel Agreste” (Nathaniel’s drawings), it is clear that Gabriel is, in fact, a wizard. Therefore, he may have bewitched Emilie to steal the rings. Knowing that the stylist likes to take what is not his, the theory about the true origin of Adrien and Félix comes into play.

Gabriel bewitching Nooroo in “Sandboy”

Adrien’s stories and photos indicate that Emilie was a good person. Although naive, the boy notices the true nature of people (e.g., he limits himself to saying that his father is “protective,” as it’s not possible to say anything good about him, and he does not fall for Lila’s lies). Then, she may have wanted to be a mother. On the other hand, Gabriel perhaps planned to have an heir who would guarantee his wife’s inheritance (depending on the marriage regime, he would only manage such an inheritance if he had a child with the deceased one). Félix and Adrien are the same age, so Amelie got pregnant at the same time as her sister.

The theory goes that Emilie and Gabriel’s child didn’t survive birth, while Amelie gave birth to twins on the same day and in the hospital. Both childbirths were difficult, and the sisters passed out during the procedure. Needing an heir, Gabriel bribed or bewitched the doctors and hospital staff to exchange his stillborn child for one of Amelie’s babies. In this way, it would appear that she had dizygotic (non-identical) twins, and one of them didn’t survive. It would be a plausible explanation since births of twins are usually more complicated). Because they were unconscious, Emilie and Amelie wouldn’t know anything and would accept the children with the versions given by the hospital. In Miraculous Ladybug, characters tend to be more perceptive of personalities than physical appearances. Then, neither Adrien nor Felix or Amelie having suspected why the “cousins” look like the same wouldn’t be a surprise.

(Note: It is known that the Graham of Vanily family live in London and the Agrestes in Paris, but nothing prevents Emilie and Amelie from being in the same city when they are having their children.)

Amelie, Félix, and Adrien in “Félix”

Some fans might argue that a newborn theft from the maternity ward would be too heavy a topic for a children’s cartoon. However, there are two points to consider. First, that subject has already been addressed in other works aimed at children: it’s what moves the plot of the children’s soap opera Accomplices to the Rescue (Cómplices al rescate). Second, Miraculous Ladybug has already addressed mature and controversial issues. The episode “Truth” brought up the theme of parental abandonment by revealing that Jagged Stone is Luka and Juleka’s biological father. Although avoided by children’s stories, that is sadly the reality for many children, and Miraculous Ladybug promotes inclusivity by portraying it in an episode. Gabriel himself keeping Emilie’s dead body in his basement is pretty macabre for a children’s show, yet it is shown. By the same line of reasoning, having sentimonsters in significant roles in the story (one of them as the protagonist) seems much more bizarre for a children’s animation than having human twins separated at birth.

4- Signs that strengthen the twins’ theory

In an audiovisual work, nothing is inserted at random. There is always a reason behind it. Speeches, costumes, colors, references, everything has a purpose. Two big signs feed the theory that Adrien and Félix are biological brothers. Both are in the episode “Félix.”

When Gabriel and his son are in the Agreste Manor’s hall waiting for their visits, the door opens, and Adrien is surprised by Amelie, calling her “Mom.” Then, after a few moments, the boy realizes that she is his “Aunt Amelie.” As the scene is the first time the character has appeared, it’s clear that it was created to shock viewers into believing that it’s Emilie at the door. However, in the context of the series, Adrien knows that his mother is dead* and that she has an identical twin sister (mother of the cousin he is very close to). Then, as shaken as he was at that moment, it makes no sense that Adrien would believe his mother was “resurrected.” It was, in fact, his unconscious calling her “Mom,” rescuing a memory of when he was inside her.

(*Even though Emilie is referred to as “missing” in some episodes, like “Queen Wasp,” Thomas Astruc confirmed that it’s public knowledge that she is dead, including having a funeral.)

Thomas Astruc confirming the note above

Shortly after, Adrien hugs Félix and Amelie says: “they look just like twins.” Such a statement was not inserted into her speech at random. Even if she doesn’t realize it, her unconscious knows that they are twins. Additionally, Amelie reveals that Adrien and Félix had Gabriel and Emilie fooled for a whole weekend by switching places but doesn’t say if she and her husband haven’t noticed the difference. Parents recognize their children by the tiniest details. Parents of identical twins know who is one and who is the other. If Emilie and Gabriel took long to realize that it was Félix instead of Adrien, they don’t have the same parental sense as Amelie and her husband, the boys’ true parents.

There are many mysteries about the Agreste and Graham de Vanily families. It is a fact that Emilie’s biological family feels enmity toward Gabriel. Such sentiment would be maximized if they found out that the stylist stole one of Amelie’s children and kept him away from the family since Emilie died (as evidenced by Gabriel’s refusal to let Adrien go to Félix’s father’s funeral).

5- Refuting the arguments of Adrien being a sentimonster theory

a) Argument: Adrien is perfect (Thomas Astruc himself jokes that his middle name is “Perfection”)

Answer: Actually, Adrien is not perfect. Thomas Astruc made this joke because the character is handsome and kind, a great combination. Adrien does have flaws. He is naive, dumb, jealous, and a cheapskate. Besides, played with Kagami’s feelings (by dating her while in love with someone else). He also was dishonest with Luka (by confiding to Marinette that he doesn’t know how to play guitar instead of admitting it out loud so that Jagged Stone would know and then accepting Luka’s guitar instead of directly suggesting to Marinette to indicate the guitarist). That doesn’t mean Adrien is evil, but he’s not perfect either.

b) Argument: There are no Adrien’s photos as a baby or child

Answer: There is a drawing made by Adrien as a child that appeared in “The Collector.” Also, Chloé is a childhood friend of his, and Félix seems to have known her since that time too. If Adrien were a sentimonster, Chloé wouldn’t have known him since they were kids, as sentimonsters are stationary.

Reply 1: Emilie may have created one Adrien a year for him to “grow up,” and thus overused the damaged miraculous and died.

Rejoinder 1: Adrien’s drawing shows the boy with his parents in Tibet, where Nathalie found the miraculouses and the spell book. Having the Peacock Miraculous in her hands when her son was already born, Emilie couldn’t have created Adrien from an amok.

Reply 2: Adrien may have been created by another Peacock Miraculous wielder before Emilie

Rejoinder 2: How did he get to Emilie and Gabriel then? How did the Agrestes get the amokized object to control him? That would open another arc and make the series very confused. I believe those responsible for Miraculous Ladybug don’t want that.

Reply 3: The original Adrien may have died, and Gabriel and Emilie created a sentimonster just like him.

Rejoinder 3: Then there’s no reason for Gabriel to resurrect Emilie. Just create a sentimonster just like her.

The drawing Adrien made in his childhood

c) Argument and hypothesis: Gabriel seems too old to have biological children, so he resorted to the Peacock Miraculous used by his wife to have a child

Answer: Even older men can have biological children (e.g., Mick Jagger’s youngest son was born in 2016, when the singer was 73). Gabriel has enough money to invest in methods like IVF. He doesn’t need to create a sentimonster to be a father.

d) Argument and hypothesis: Gabriel doesn’t show affection for Adrien, probably because Emilie used the damaged Peacock Miraculous too much to keep the sentimonster as an ordinary child and died

Answer: Not receiving affection from his father doesn’t mean Adrien is a sentimonster. Gabriel is not a caring person. Having raised Adrien for so many years, he was supposed to have, at the very least, an affection for the boy, even if he wasn’t his biological son. But Gabriel is very selfish and unable to be affectionate. That goes for everyone.

e) Argument: In “Ladybug & Cat Noir (Origins - Part 1)”, Gabriel tells Adrien: “you are not like everyone else.”

Answer: That’s what any parent says when their kids try to convince them of something because “everybody” does. The phrase is more a confirmation of Gabriel’s parental authority than anything else.

f) Argument and hypothesis: The episode “Optigami” revealed that sentimonsters can use miraculouses, so Master Fu could have entrusted the Cat Miraculous to Adrien even realizing he is a sentimonster

Answer: Yes, sentimonsters can use miraculouses, but that doesn’t set Adrien up as one. He lacks many of the fundamental characteristics of sentimonsters, such as physical stability and absolute subservience. Also, knowing that sentimonsters are creatures controlled by whoever holds the amokized object, Master Fu wouldn’t risk handing a miraculous as powerful as the Cat to a sentimonster, as it’s unknown who can control it later.

g) Argument: Adrien is totally obedient to Gabriel

Answer: That’s not true. Although not confronting Gabriel, Adrien questions his father’s decisions and sometimes disobeys him. In “Ladybug & Cat Noir (Origins - Part 1),” he runs away to study at a school against his father’s order to be homeschooled. In “Frozer,” he asks the bodyguard to take him to the skating rink, even though Gabriel thinks he is going to school to train in fencing. In “Desperada,” Adrien goes to Luka’s boat instead of his fencing class. Sentimonsters never rebel against whoever holds the amokized object that controls them. For them to have freedom, the amokized thing must be given directly to them, as seen in “Ladybug.”

Addendum (11/24/2022): The same logic applies to Kagami, who disobeys Tomoe in “Ikari Gozen” and “Heart Hunter.” Tomoe and Gabriel are overbearing persons and would never create disobedient sentimonsters. That contradict both sentimonsters’ nature and Gabriel and Tomoe’s. Therefore, though some fans believe Kagami is a sentimonster, that’s not true.

h) Argument and hypothesis: Thomas Astruc said that if a sentimonster is created to be a human, it is human, not a human-shaped creature; therefore, it’s possible that Adrien has a will of his own and makes his own decisions even though he is a sentimonster

Answer: Gabriel is very controlling, even wanting to isolate his son from the rest of the world. Why would he create a human sentimonster with a will of its own? The episodes “Ladybug” and “Sentibubbler” show that whoever decides how a sentimonster act is who controls it. So, even if Emilie had created Adrien as a human sentimonster with his own will, Gabriel could take away that autonomy when he got the amokized object. For his plans, it’s not good to have an independent Adrien. If the boy is like that, he isn’t a sentimonster.

(Note: As well-remembered by the Toujours Miraculous post (web link in sources), Adrien has a hot body and is allergic to pigeon feathers. These traits are entirely human. It wouldn’t make sense for a sentimonster to be created with allergies (even if it was to give it a human character), as this kind of condition isn’t something immediately noted. Gabriel wants to show the world that Adrien is perfect. If the boy were a sentimonster, he would have been made without any allergies or unfavorable conditions. At the very least, Gabriel would eliminate them when controlling him.)

i) Argument and hypothesis: Gabriel stirs his ring to make Adrien obey him, as seen in “Ephemeral” and in “Strikeback;” it may contain the amok which created Adrien

Answer: If Adrien were a sentimonster, it would be impossible for Gabriel to need to move the amokized object to increase control over him, as Adrien wouldn’t even show signs of disobedience. It wouldn’t be possible for the boy to react against his father’s domination if the amokized object were under his control and not someone else’s (who could give him autonomy). It’s more likely that the Graham de Vanily Twin Rings have a spell that controls people.

j) Argument: The episode “Wishmaker” showed that Adrien had no childhood dreams and that he wants to be what his parents want him to be

Answer: Not all children dream of the future. Many of them answer “I don’t know” when asked what they want to be when they grow up (I’ve met some of them myself). Adrien may have been an insecure child and saw his parents as his desired protection. Soon, he felt comfortable fulfilling Emilie and Gabriel’s wishes and couldn’t imagine doing anything they didn’t plan.

k) Argument: Feri González said she has known about “Senti Adrien” since Season 2

Answer: Actually, when asked on the internet how long she had known about “Senti Adrien,” Feri González replied, “Since Season 2”. That answer has two meanings. She may be confirming that Adrien is a sentimonster and that she would have been warned about this during Season 2. However, she could also be implying that she’s been aware since Season 2 of a theory that Adrien is a sentimonster. It is different saying “Joseph loves Mary” than saying “I heard that Joseph loves Mary.” They asked what Feri González knows, and she answered literally. That feature is often used to mislead without telling lies. The Miraculous Ladybug staff doesn’t like when fans try to discover the show’s secrets before the revelation episodes. Proof of that is Thomas Astruc’s ironic, even rude, reply to a fan who asked if Luka and Juleka were Jagged Stone’s children based on their looking. The cartoon’s creator hinted that such a suspicion was absurd, but the episode “Truth” proved it correct. To prevent fans from suspecting what’s going on in the Agreste family, Feri González may be giving them literal answers to throw them off track and keep them away from premature discoveries. She misled fans before when she said that Adrien should “take care” as Luka would enter Marinette’s love life, and so far, not only has Adrien remained intact in Marinette’s heart, Luka got very frustrated.

Thomas Astruc doesn’t like the Sherlocks Holmes on duty

l) Argument: Adrien is practically a copy of Emilie, having no trace of Gabriel

Answer: Indeed, Adrien bears no physical resemblance to Gabriel, indicating that he is not his biological son. However, he is also not a copy of Emilie, as although he has his mother’s eyes, nose, and mouth, his head shape is different (and not the same as Gabriel’s). His hair is also a more saturated shade of blonde than Emilie’s. At the same time, the lack of resemblance between the boy and Gabriel doesn’t explain how Adrien is identical to Félix. It is most likely they are identical twins, and what they didn’t get from Amelie, they got from her husband.

Remark: In “Feast,” Mayura felt the presence of the sentimonster created by Master Fu. She was in the same ambiance as Cat Noir in “Ladybug” while using the Peacock Miraculous and didn’t feel anything different.

6- Refuting the arguments of Félix being a sentimonster theory

a) Argument: In “Gabriel Agreste,” Gabriel threatens to snap his fingers to make Félix disappear; Sentimonsters are freed from reality when their creators snap their fingers

Answer: Nathalie’s plan of Shadow Moth creating a sentimonster in Gabriel’s shape to fight his nephew while the villain tries to akumatize him had a clear objective: to prevent Félix from suspecting that Gabriel is Shadow Moth. If Félix were a sentimonster and would be freed from reality with a snap, Gabriel’s threat would confess that he is Shadow Moth. Then, the plan would no longer make sense (he would be doing what needed to be avoided). Although Gabriel isn’t always that intelligent, that’s a huge mistake that he would never make, especially with someone as smart as Félix. The threat to make the boy disappear in a snap contains a metaphor for death and one for speed. Félix was scared because, even knowing that his uncle is mysterious and dishonest, he wouldn’t have imagined that he would be capable of committing murder (and this had to be implied smoothly, as it’s a children’s cartoon). Gabriel, in response, would not back down from the threatening tone to increase fear in Félix and allow his akumatization. However, he didn’t count on his nephew’s cunning and endurance.

Senti-Gabriel threating Félix in “Gabriel Agreste”

b) Argument and hypothesis: Nathalie stints the ring given by Gabriel to control Félix, who pretended to be Adrien; each of the bands can contain an amok (one that created Félix and one that originated Adrien)

Answer: If Félix were a sentimonster whose amok would be in one of the rings, Gabriel would have no problem controlling him, and Félix wouldn’t confront him like he did when they were alone in the studio. Even his uncle could take away the sharp intelligence that seriously threatens the villain’s plans. Félix is a great actor (proven in “Félix,” “Gabriel Agreste,” and “Risk”), and he knows the Graham de Vanily Twin Rings well. Soon, he may learn of the rings’ hidden power and theorize that Gabriel uses it to control Adrien. To maintain the cover at that moment, he should act like his cousin, therefore not resist the ring’s control when activated. An indication that the rings only control Adrien is the dialogue between the cousins in “Risk:”

F: Freedom is something you make, Adrien. For starters, you gotta stop doing everything your father tells you to.

A: I can’t disobey him.

F: You can’t, but I can.

Then Félix mentions that he and Adrien used to switch places in childhood (which Amelie had already revealed in “Félix”). If they were sentimonsters, they couldn’t have had a childhood, as they would be static. They wouldn’t even have memories of that time and still mention them when alone (without the person who would control them). If they were replaced year by year to “grow up,” the current versions could have no memories of what the old ones lived through. Even if they were created with the power to grow up like any other humans, they would still be subject to Gabriel’s control. That one, as mentioned earlier, would soon turn Adrien and Félix into submissive beings without autonomy of thought.

c) Argument and hypothesis: Although he apologized in secret, Félix didn’t hesitate in betraying Ladybug’s trust and gave the miraculouses to Shadow Moth; therefore, he should be apologizing to the Strikebacks for not being able to do anything for them, who were being thrown into the Sun, and felt sorry for them because he is also a sentimonster

Answer: It makes no sense for Félix to empathize with the Strikebacks. Even if he were a sentimonster, he would have been created to be a human, unlike the Strikebacks, made to be robots. In other words, even sentimonsters, Félix and Strikeback would be of totally different types. It couldn’t have empathy that made sense. It’s more plausible that Félix was actually regretting betraying Ladybug’s trust. He looks fondly at the portrait of his Aunt Emilie (when he is alone, without needing to fool anyone), gets horrified to see her dead body hidden in the Agreste Manor’s basement, and has a strong sense of family. It is seen in his relationship with his mother and with the traditions of the Graham de Vanily. Then, the boy is not a psychopath like Gabriel, and he has a good side. At the same time, he is too clever and managed to find out in one episode what Ladybug and Cat Noir are four seasons without discovering: the identity of Hawk Moth/Shadow Moth. Therefore, Félix may be skeptical of the heroes’ competence in fighting the villain and knows that his intelligence will help him defeat him faster, bringing justice to his family, Paris, and the world. Unfortunately, he would have to take two steps back to succeed in his plan: betray Ladybug’s trust and give the recovered ring to Gabriel. Therefore, he was sad, but he knew it was for a good cause. He would be pretending to be what he isn’t to help the ones he loves, just like Zoé does. If Félix was so mean as to not care about Ladybug’s reaction to his betrayal, he would also not be able to see himself as similar to the Strikebacks to feel sorry for them.

Reply 1: Félix, as Flairmidable, asked Ladybug where the heroes would send the Strikebacks and looked astonished when she replied that it would be a place where they couldn’t hurt anyone; still, the images of Flairmidable and the Strikebacks were shown interspersed.

Rejoinder 1: Interspersing images indicate the simultaneity of events. While the heroes defeated the Strikebacks, Félix prepared to leave the scene. Furthermore, Flairmidable may have been surprised at the genius of Ladybug’s plan, and so he realized that she would not be as incompetent as he had thought when he came up with his original plan. However, it would be too late to turn back, and he had to go on, regretting betraying her trust.

Reply 2: Félix demanded the Peacock Miraculous specifically, and he seemed fulfilled when he finally got his hands on it

Rejoinder 2: That proves nothing. Felix may have a plan in mind that includes using the Peacock Miraculous. It could be something like Nathalie’s idea in “Optigami,” and in this case, he would spy on Gabriel.

Reply 3: Amelie confessed that she wanted to give the rings to Félix because he was fascinated by them; perhaps she wants to free him by handing him the object that controls him

Rejoinder 3: If that were true, Amelie would have had to have owned the rings before Félix was born. By that time, the bands were with Gabriel and Emilie, utilizing them since marriage. At the same time, Amelie sees Félix’s fascination with the bands as his admiration for his family’s traditions. If he were a sentimonster, he wouldn’t notice it himself (because he would be made to be human), and she would have to tell him. From the mother-son conversation in “Félix,” it’s clear that there is no sentimonster involved.

Reply 4: In “Strikeback,” Félix easily gave up the ring to exchange it for the Peacock Miraculous; he may be trying to find a way to transfer the amok from the ring to another object

Rejoinder 4: If it were possible to transfer akumas and amoks, Ladybug would never be able to purify them. Hawk Moth/Shadow Moth and Mayura would immediately place them on other things and keep the akumatized and sentimonsters. When an amok leaves its object, the sentimonster is automatically undone. If Félix were one of those creatures and planned that, he would be committing suicide. It makes more sense that the surrender of the ring is a strategic retreat by Félix. The episode “Gabriel Agreste” shows that he is always one step forward from his uncle.

d) Argument: Miraculous Ladybug’s episodes from Seasons 1 to 4 are named after akumatized or sentimonsters, and Adrien’s cousin’s debut episode is called “Félix.”

Answer: The change in episode naming pattern from Season 5 onwards shows that the naming depends heavily on the staff’s plans. Félix is a substantive character for Miraculous Ladybug, but he wouldn’t be akumatized in his debut. Therefore, the episode could not have a name from her akumatized form like “Volpina,” Lila’s debut. At the same time, perhaps “Punishers Trio” would not be as appealing a title as “Félix,” as it would highlight the akumatized ones (recurring) more than the debuting character who will influence the series’ course. Whatever Felix’s true intention in posing as Adrien to hurt his cousin’s friends was, the fact is that he was an antagonist in the story, then he maintained a pattern of naming episodes from Seasons 1 to 3 as antagonists. Even though the sentimonster Ladybug switched to the side of good in “Ladybug,” it played an evil role when it was under Mayura’s control. The pattern continued through Season 4.

Remark: In “Strikeback,” Félix gives the ring to Gabriel, saying he won’t be needing it anymore. If Félix were a sentimonster and his amok were in the ring, he would never give the object which controls him to Gabriel. He knows his uncle’s nature perfectly.

7- Conclusion

It’s more plausible that Adrien and Félix are identical twins than sentimonsters. Both don’t fit the profile of beings created by amoks. At the same time, they are compatible with the subject of identical twins with different personalities, common in fiction. Gabriel Agreste is Machiavellian enough to do anything for his goals, including stealing objects and children. There are many indications that the “identical cousins” are actually brothers, and they make more sense than the supposed clues that they are sentimonsters. Miraculous Ladybug is a bright show with a great line of reasoning and mystery, and it wouldn’t need to resort to absurdity to maintain its greatness. The best ending for Adrien and Félix would be that they discover the truth and live happily as brothers, free from the intrigues that Gabriel allowed to arise between them.

The same DNA, the same fraternal love

Sources:

“If twin brothers marry twin sisters, will their children be identical?” by Luiza Andrade (Super Interessante, August 22nd, 2016, updated in February 14th, 2020; in Portuguese; if you don’t speak Portuguese, use a translator)

Adrien being a sentimonster theory, posted on Miraculous Ladybug Wikia forum

“Why Adrien’s NOT a Sentimonster” by Toujours Miraculous

The knowledge that I acquired myself in college.

Text originally written on May 27th, 2022. Updated on November 24th, 2022. Attention section post on July 26th, 2023.

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car-toons · 2 years

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I know everyone is talking about the Tsurugi logo in the Season 5 intro, but can we PLEASE talk about the feather in Chat Noir’s corner in the same frame!?

My mind has stopped working…

#oh no…#bruh guys #be ready for so much senti drama this season!#miraculous ladybug #miraculous #mlb #miraculous tales of ladybug and chat noir #miraculous season 5 #senti adrien #adrien sentimonster theory #ml spoilers #car rambles

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eggheadsguidetorunning · 1 year

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Calling a shot: Adrien is Half-Sentimonster

Emilie is barren but wanted to have Gabriel's child or provide Gabriel with a child it was a strong desire probably out of love.

To have a child she makes not a child from the peacock but an egg that Gabriel adds his genes too this egg and that is how we get Adrien.

This could explain his memories and why he has two amoks. one amok when he was born and one for the egg, two amoks.

#ml spoilers #mlb spoilers #adrien sentimonster theory #adrien agreste #adrien was born #miraculous ladybug #mlb #ml season 5 spoilers #ml theory

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dumbass-brunette · 2 years

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Day 2: twins

@sentisugar

I really like how this one came out, especially Gabriel’s hand 👌🏽

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pearl484-blog · 5 months

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Has Miraculous Lost its Innocence?

Just got an ask from @tallwriter asking if Miraculous has lost its innocence permenantly, but my inbox ate it. Sorry.

So, just to be clear, I'm not really sure I understand the question, so I'll answer it in a few different ways.

Will Miraculous Ladybug ever return to primarily catering towards its younger demograghic again? No, I don't think so. It seems pretty determined to interact with older fans and grow up with its audience. I doubt it's going to backtrack. Which is kinda a shame, because one of the things it seems determined to lose is its episodic nature in exchange for an arc. Unfortunately, the episodic nature is not the writer's strength, and arc plots are...difficult for these writers. Their inexperience in this type of writing shows. Their style of arc building how also lead to them not being able to contain their stories in small chunks anymore, which leads to me ...not enjoying them as much, along with them following this weird piece of writing advice to make whatever is the most painful thing to happen to the characters happen.

On a side note, for any writers out there, please do not follow this advice. For a stronger story with a more coherent theme, figure out what your theme is and try to come up with conflicts that might naturally arise from this, and would enhance your theme instead of distract from it. Think of it like cooking. No matter how tasty all the ingredients in your kitchen can be, you can't make them all, and some foods do not pair well. Figure out what you're working towards, warm and savory? Cool and refreshing? Healthy and lean? Then go towards that. A triple layer chocolate came next to grilled salmon and roasted mixed veggies is an ...odd choice that would raise some eye brows. Is Miraculous always going to have mature themes? Miraculous has always had themes of bullying and child abuse from the beginning. Part of why I liked this show was its realistic depiction of emotional abuse with Adrien, and its refusal to adhere to the trope that is the school bully somehow being the most popular girl at school. Considering how its aiming towards an older audience now, and it's never shied away from subverting comon trope expectations, I do not expect this to change.

However, that is not to say that I enjoy every trope subversion that MLB has done, nor do I think that it has always handled mature subjects very well, but I'll touch on that a bit more in my next section.

Have I Lost My Faith in Miraculous Ladybug Permenantly

Short answer: No. But it's going to need a lot of back bedaling and extremely good writing to make me invested in the series again.

Most of this is related to one unfortunate plot point, the mishandling of child abuse. Of course, that's not the only issue. I also do not like Lila. She is my least favorite character in the entire series. I do understand what the writing team is trying to do with her. They messed up with her character during the episode "Chameleon" and they are trying to fix that error. It is an admirable effort, but unfortunately their attempts to fix that issue have not rendered a villain that is likable or is clever and easy to hate. Unfortunately, each time I see her, I see the hand of the author every time she shows up. Everything about her is contrived, and I do not believe that she could have all these lies. Furthermore, the handling of Chloe in Seasons 4 and 5 also seemed unnaturally spiteful and petty. Perhaps, they were trying to backtrack and make the character someone fun to hate, but unfortunately, they could not. Each time she appeared, I could only sense ill intent from the author, and it was not a good look. The absolute final straw was when Chloe is revealed to have a learning disorder, and Marinette takes the time to say that it is unfair for Chloe to get accomodations for her disability because she's been taking steps to mask it by having Sabrina do her work for her. This does not make me dislike Chloe in the way the authors apparently thought I would.

However, the biggest flub of all is Adrien Agreste. He is abused. I could use an abuse checklist, and he'd hit most if not all the boxes. The show is still one of the most realistic decpictions of emotional abuse in the media and a good demonstration of abuse, why people might not recognize the abuse, why a victim might make excuses for their abuser, why a victim might not believe they are abused, and in season 5, there was an excellent depiction of the honeymoon/apology part of the cycle. I am honestly so shocked at how realistic and well portrayed Adrien's abuse is compared to the stereotypical abused woman who's got bruises and blaming it on walking into a door. BUT dear god. There is so much victim blaming towards Adrien. Adrien is too weak to stand up for himself. Adrien needs protecting from his own fragile emotions. Adrien can't know information. Adrien keeps fawning. He keeps making VERY concerning statements about himself, his feelings, his relationships to people, and no one realizes how fucked up it is. No one challenges him. The narrative, at several points, ends with his fucked up abuse logic being the end-point of the conflict. In order for Miraculous Ladybug to regain my faith in it, I need for people to challenge the fawning. I need for Adrien's unhealthy behavoirs and mindset to be challenged. I need for those behavoirs to be shown as wrong. And I need for the victim blaming to be shown as wrong. I need for people to understand what they did was wrong.

The senti-monster thing, by the way, DOES NOT HELP. It is not a good metaphor for abuse. Gabriel and Adrien was a good representation of a parent abusing their own child, now it's a representation of a creator abusing his creation. There is so little representation of a parent abusing their biological offspring. Why destroy it?

Did the authors not think the audience would be able to understand why Adrien obeys without magic? By making him controlled by an item, they undermined the whole abuse theme.

Adrien should be controlled by the man who raised him. The man he loved his whole life. The man who should've loved him. The man everyone told him loved him and knew what was best for him.

Adrien has been emotionally crushed his whole life. Told he's impulsive, too emotional, that he never makes good descisions, and the only way for him to be worthy of love is to be obedient, to be unresisting, to be perfect. He should think that molding himself to whatever people wants him to be is right, is expected, and his friends should challenge that. But they don't.

Each relationship Adrien has has been carved away besides Marinette and Plagg. Marinette will not help him. She cannot help him. Plagg is an abuse victim whose also internalized worldviews similiar to Adrien. He teaches him how to rebel. He understands these rules, but Plagg cannot acknowledge them as healthy.

Miraculous can restore my faith by re-aligning its abuse structure. Backpedaling and saying that abuse victims are not weak because they bend their knee. That sometimes they see obedience as the only option to survive, and that's okay. That victim blaming is not okay. That accomodation is good and necessary, and its wrong to be a jerk about it. That fawning is unhealthy. That molding yourself to what others want you to be is unhealthy. That judging your self-worth on how useful you are or how happy you make other people is not healthy.

I do not think it will do that. But it could. And the fandom has done that, so I will continue interacting with the fandom.

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