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realthoughtsreal · 2 years

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Big realizations

Warning: some slightly maybe inapproprite language? Definitely some feels about gender

As I become more familiar with my asexuality, and the label that fits the most, I feel like I might be on the cusp of another huge realization.

Since I was young, I never fit exactly into anyone’s box of a what a girl was supposed to be; I played with cars and dolls, anything I could find, I hated dresses and the colors yellow and pink but wore them often because either they were the only options or I was forced to, I liked to get dirty and play rough, I wasn’t scared of most bugs like girls are usually expected to be, I was too “nerdy” to be perceived as a girl (bullshit in my opinion), I never fit in with the girl groups at school and got along with the boys better, I had more real male friends than female friends, I didn’t cry when I got hurt and instead laughed (partially because I really didn’t feel the pain, the other part of me didn’t cry even when I felt real pain because I didn’t want to be perceived as “weak” or in other words, “girly”), etcetera. I didn’t feel particularly bothered by being called a girl back then, before puberty; back then everyone looked the same, everyone was flat, and there were no outer characteristics that separated us. I think I didn’t really understand back then what it meant that I was classified as a girl. My boobs showed up earlier than everybody else’s, and I was immediately embarrassed. I didn’t like them. They were a nuisance, felt weird, and were a sudden weight on my back I never asked for. Since they appeared, I’ve dreamed of getting them off of me. Then my legs got hairy and I was immediately given a razor by my mom and was pressured into shaving, because otherwise I’d look like a boy. I wasn’t even 12. I liked my hairy legs and mom made me feel bad about it, like I was weird. I didn’t understand what was the problem.

When I was in high school the feeling of “wrong” just increased. There were off days when I didn’t mind looking so femenine, but other days I hated my woman looking body, and even wondered for a short while if I was trans or just wanted to look more like a boy; flat. I even asked my best friend at the time if she’d mind it if I wore boy clothes only.

The feeling of “wrong” of course was associated to me feeling like I looked fat compared to the other girls (I was not fat, the other girls were just too thin and stick like while my body is more the classic “latina” shape). Either way, I felt horrible about my body, I liked nothing about myself. I hated my big breasts which other girls were jealous of and my big hips. I hated looking at my reflection and taking photos. I hated wearing bras with all my heart and wore as many as 3 sport bras to try to control the assets. It was a very hard time for me.

Yet I distinctly remember never being bothered when I was called a “boy” or too “masculine” as an insult by others. In fact, a part of me felt proud of that and.. validated. Happy. Even though I was also aware that other girls would probably be offended by that, as it was meant to be an insult. On the other hand, sometimes I was deeply disturbed by being called a “girl” or “miss” or “young woman”, though it might have been because of the person who said it at the time. Body hair never bothered me, even though other girls pointed it out often and tried to make me feel bad about it, for being too hairy like a boy, I never understood what was the deal with them. I didn’t mind being hairy at all! It wasn’t like they were bald either, they just shaved! I didn’t understand what the problem was.

I spent 90% of high school feeling like this. For most of my senior year, I fell into a sort of middle point; sometimes I actually enjoyed wearing girly clothing and skorts and being perceived as more girl-like, other times I just wanted to be as flat as possible wear jeans and loose shirts and flaunt my broad shoulders.

I never thought much about it and I thought it was pretty normal for big boobs girls to feel like this (I was as clueless as I was with my asexuality, thinking I was the normal one). But recently I’ve started to think back on it and actively analyze my behavior everyday; I long to get a size reduction surgery, so that I can at least wear a binder and make it work efficiently, there are days when I actually feel okay with my chest and might even enjoy them and wear dresses and tight low cut shirts and wear pink makeup, most days I want to be perceived as androgynous and I long for people not to be able to tell immediately how I identify when they look at me, other days I’d do anything to swap my female body for a male one and wear loose dress shirts, pants and ties and get a mullet haircut.

When I attempted to date like an allocishet, I had a lot of issues not only with the physical aspect of it (as I’m asexual), but also I was bothered by being called his girlfriend. I thought at the time that it was because maybe I didn’t like him enough (which, fair enough, I didn’t, but still), but even now when I picture being someone’s special other, I don’t think of myself as their “girlfriend”. I think of myself as my potential partner’s well, partner, or lover. I don’t like being called girlfriend. Now that I’m trying to understand myself better, I think it’s more than just not liking someone enough. I don’t think I’m generally comfortable with feminine tags.

The particularly “feminine” days are very few and far between. Most of the time, I’m somewhere in between and just want to look as androgynous and flat as possible with my unfortunate size. Sometimes I wish for shorter hair, a cool mullet haircut but feel like I couldn’t pull it off because I look too feminine and my chest is too big and it’d just not work with my proportions.

I’ve always been more attracted to androgynous and nonbinary people and have always fantasized with sharing closets (it’s only now that I’m starting to realize that may not be as cishet way of thinking as I thought it was), particularly more feminine looking guys. My mother always teased me because I liked Ryan from High School Musical and not Troy, she said he was obviously gay, too feminine and well groomed. I was like??? The fuck you talking about?? And why is that a problem???? Looking back, it’s now obvious what my type has always been.

I started to think back again today because of some things that happened; I went to buy a hellfire shirt because I was gonna be dressing up as Eddie Munson for an event (haha yeah, not very cis of me either) and when one of the girls working there asked me whether I wanted the boy size or the girl size I immediately felt very happy that she asked and even happier when she had absolutely no reaction to me going for the boy one other than kindness and being helpful. But the good mood didn’t last long.

A random dude called me “queen” on the street. I was immediately disturbed and disappointed, disturbed by the rando and disappointed by the term, by the knowledge that even though I was dressed as Eddie (a dude) I was still perceived as a woman . Some hours later I went back with my aunt to the same shop where I got the hellfire shirt, because I thought I’d check out some of the other clothes because they had cool dresses (even though a part of me already left like I didn’t want to wear dresses today, though I knew I might at some point in the future). As soon as I put them on I felt horrible, too feminine, too busty looking, too big chested, too curvy, too “woman”. I walked out of the dressing room disgusted and no longer felt as confident in my Eddie outfit when reminded of my woman body. My aunt noticed I was disturbed and somehow the conversation shifted into my want for surgery, which I had already commented to her. She started to say that ‘oh no but you shouldn’t be so rash, and men like them anyway, and you should try other cuts and sizes of shirts, it’s all about the collar type, etc etc and you’re beautiul, you look okay’ she went on and on no matter how much I tried to get her to stop and understand that ‘NO. It’s not about the cut of the shirts! I just DON’T like them! I don’t feel comfortable with them!’ And she still went on about how ‘oh but so many girls would want your assets and hate being flat and you’re wasting yours’ and shit, I didn’t reply to that but I was pissed. I was like ‘so just because others want them I’m obligated to keep them?! Out of some completely misplaced sense of duty?! What the hell?!

I immediately became quiet and closed off and barely spoke for the rest of the trip home. At some point she must have noticed she stepped on a line, because she patted my knee and said ‘it’s your decision anyways. Come on, you can get ready asking a doctor at the blah blah office for an appointment so you can get the necessary info and stuff, and start saving up for it’. Still, by that point I was already so deep in my mind, just pretending to be sleepy because I was trying so hard to hold my tears in.

It’s the first time I’ve been so deeply bothered by female tags and the assets that it’s almost brought me to tears. I immediately started to wonder seriously if I’m genderfluid or nonbinary. I hadn’t realized just how much it bothered me to be referred to in such a way. Sometimes I just long desperately for a completely male body, others I wished I looked more androgynous or had been born hermaprodite. Very very few times I’m okay with my female body.

I’ve never told anyone any of this. I’ve always been perceived as the tomboy that doesn’t know how to dress like a woman. I thought that was it. It never occurred to think much of why or how it bothered me when people referred to me as a young woman, or girl, or miss, or why I was always disturbed when another aunt took me shopping and she immediately tried to get me more feminine looking clothes that she perceived as socially acceptable, tried to pressure me into trying and buying the more feminine clothes and always gifted me clothing.

I don’t think I’ll ever be able to come out fully to my family. Maybe a couple of my cousins are the only ones I’d ever tell; one who is a very witchy lgbt ally and the coolest person I know, the other a queer lesbian herself, and a gay funny dude.

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princess-spock · 7 months

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Pronouns and Gender in the Good Omens Universe

Neil recently said: “Angels aren't humans or mortals. They don't have genders. There isn't a pronoun you can use for them that's wrong, and unless you can speak in the tongue of the angels there's not a pronoun you can use for them that's actually right. Ditto Demons.”

Obviously, no one's going to debate Neil's pronouncements about the series! The thing is, though, that CONSISTENT gendered pronouns are used in the book, and in the series, and by Neil himself when referring to these characters. There's significant gray area here, no matter how you slice it. So...

(Who are we?

@Princess-Spock: I'm non-binary, specifically genderfluid. My pronouns are they/them for simplicity. My primary gender is agender, and is aroace; I have a wide range of other genders and sexualities.

@Twilightcitysky: I’m an allosexual, queer, cis woman with a background in healthcare, specifically sexual/reproductive health and mental health.)

Pronouns, ideally, should reflect gender… but what is gender? Gender is something we feel inside our heads. For most people, that matches up with their genitals… But not always!

Genitals do NOT determine gender!

Therefore:

A transwoman is a WOMAN, regardless of what genitals she has.

A transman is a MAN, regardless of what genitals he has.

A non-binary person is non-binary regardless of what genitals they have.

A genderfluid person might sometimes have gender that matches their genitals, but at least part of the time does not. (A gender that varies in intensity rather than going between genders is genderflux, not genderfluid.)

A couple of those terms need to be clarified:

• Non-binary means not having a “binary gender,” in other words not being one of the 2 most familiar genders, “exclusively male all the time” or “exclusively female all the time.” (Remember, bi = 2.) Non-binary does NOT mean being genderless! A non-binary person could be genderless/agender… or they might have partial gender, mixed genders, fluctuating genders (fluid or flux), xenogender, or non-specific gender.

Note: Not all non-binary people use they/them. Like everyone else, they get to choose their own pronouns. It's never acceptable to assign pronouns of your choosing to them, or to assume that they must be they/them without confirmation.

• Genderfluid means having a gender that changes periodically; a genderfluid person can have any number (other than 1) or combination of genders. The gender of a genderfluid person might change after a few minutes, or after hours, days, even months. Genderfluidity refers to gender ONLY; it does NOT refer to changes in presentation.

And what is presentation, aka gender presentation or gender expression? It’s what gender a person chooses to portray with their appearance. This can include choosing whether to wear male or female clothing, shoes and accessories… hair length and style… whether or not makeup is used… whether or not body shaping garments are worn, such as a binder to flatten the breasts, or padding to create curves... and whether or not there is facial hair, whether naturally grown or otherwise. If someone has a presentation that differs from their biological sex, they might be trans, or it could be cosplay, drag, cross-dressing, a costume, being gender non-conforming (GNC), as a sociopolitical statement (eg butch lesbians), or just for fun.

Presentation does NOT determine gender!

Some people are forced to wear whatever their culture dictates. Or whatever their family will accept. GNC people choose to not wear clothing that conforms to their gender. For some people, presentation is irrelevant, and they just wear whatever is easiest.

Because there are no elements of presentation that are specifically for any of the non-binary genders, non-binary people are typically left with some form of androgynous or GNC presentation. (@Princess-Spock: it's REALLY tricky to create a look that is neither male nor female, especially for those who, like me, don’t reshape their bodies.)

If a genderfluid person's gender changes when they aren't near their closet, their presentation might not match their gender, even if they’d prefer it to. Sometimes it's a matter of what they can afford; not everyone has the luxury of having multiple wardrobes. (@Princess-Spock: For those of us who are fortunate to have little or no dysphoria, we might skip customizing our presentation much of the time, just for simplicity.)

And just FYI:

Sexual orientation does NOT determine gender!

Specific to the fandom, there is no connection whatsoever between being asexual and being genderless/agender, or to not possessing genitals. Just because someone belongs in one of those categories does NOT mean or even suggest that they belong in the other categories. It is absolutely positively NOT correct to suggest that angels and demons are asexual simply because they don't have gender and/or genitals. (They might still be ace, of course!)

A few useful terms (these are not complete descriptions by any means):

• Asexual, sometimes abbreviated as ace, is a spectrum of sexual orientations in which a person feels little or no sexual attraction to anyone. Being asexual does NOT necessarily mean being aromantic. Also, being asexual does NOT mean not having sexual feelings, or not having and enjoying sex, although these things are true for those who are sex-averse.

• Aromantic is a spectrum of romantic attractions in which a person feels little or no romantic attraction to anyone. Being aromantic does NOT necessarily mean being asexual. And an aromantic person can still make loving connections, exchange affection like kissing or holding hands, and of course still have sex.

• Aroace refers to people who are both asexual and aromantic.

How does all this apply to the Good Omens universe? In the book, it says, “angels are sexless unless they really want to make an effort”; Neil has referred to this for the series as well. Canon isn't explicit, but most of us interpret this as, "they don’t have genitals unless they choose to." Lack of GENITALS is then often wrongly seen as lack of GENDER. Neil said, "Neither the angels nor the demons, as far as I’m concerned, are actually gendered as humans are." But, he uses human gender terms; Crowley is genderfluid, angels are non-binary (it seems like he means that they’re genderless, but that's NOT what non-binary means). Confusingly, in a 2018 post, he said:

"The angels and demons in Good Omens aren’t human, they aren’t male (nor are they female). Not that they couldn’t be male etc if they wanted to make that effort. As it says in Good Omens: ‘For those of angel stock or demon breed, size, and shape, and composition, are simply options’."

That sure looks like, YES, they CAN have gender!

More confusingly, Neil also says that his personal headcanon is NOT canon, canon is only what's in the book and the series... and none of this appears in either place. This makes the gender and thus pronoun issues a tad ambiguous. We agree 100% with Neil that people should embrace their headcanons and allow others to do the same, and so use whatever pronouns they want, and allow others to do the same. Here's how WE see Crowley and Aziraphale's genders and pronouns:

It is absolutely impossible, by definition, for a genderfluid person to be genderless ALL the time. Therefore, if Crowley is genderfluid, he MUST have gender at least part of the time! (And if he can have gender, so can all other angels and demons!)

When Mrs. Sandwich tells Crowley that he's a good lad, and he responds that he's neither, that's in line with what most genderfluid people would say; having a gender some days but not others is different from BEING that gender. Crowley has chosen a male body (male genitals, hairy chest), facial hair, generally masculine attire, and male pronouns, so it's reasonable to assume that his chosen gender is male most of the time.

We assume that he was female when he chose to wear female clothing (an abaya) in the crucifixion scene. He may also have been female during his stint as Nanny Ashtoreth, but that might have just been presentation.

During the scene where he's in heaven in S2, he has a non-binary presentation; the tracksuit is androgynous, and the accessories (headband, sparkly gold tie, fingernails, and toenails) are feminine. He might be experiencing a non-binary gender at this time.

(@Princess-Spock: Genderfluidity is very complicated. Even when Crowley "looked" female, he might have been experiencing a variety of different genders; remember, neither genitals nor presentation determine gender! In fact, since Crowley had adopted a female appearance out of necessity, not because that was his true gender at that time, he might even never have actually BEEN female during the time he was "looking" female!)

What about Aziraphale? He has all the “male stuff” that Crowley does (facial and chest hair, deep voice, etc). He has an unwaveringly masculine presentation; his hair is ALWAYS short throughout history (even when Gabriel’s is long), and his sartorial choices are traditionally and formally male (pocket watch on a chain, French cuffs with cufflinks), with no hint of the modern androgyny of jeans and T-shirts… strong evidence that his chosen gender is male.

Neil always refers to Aziraphale and Crowley as he/him (he stated that Crowley was presenting female as Nanny Ashtoreth and at the crucifixion, but no pronoun is used either time). The book and the script book always refer to Aziraphale and Crowley as he/him. Aziraphale and Crowley always refer to each other as he/him. Michael and David have always referred to Aziraphale and Crowley as he/him. So, he/him is our personal choice.

What about the pronouns of other supernatural characters?

Beelzebub:

He/him in the book. She/her in the script book. For S1, Neil said, “I don’t think there were any. Probably Zzzzzzir.” They/them for S2 (“but they're always such a little ray of sunshine” in E3).

Dagon:

In the book, no pronouns are used, but all male titles; Lord, Master, Under-Duke. He/him in the script book. No pronouns used in the show or by Neil.

Muriel:

They/them canonically, but referred to by Quelin Sepulveda, the actress who plays Muriel, as she/they. It seems like the gender perception of the actor who embodies a character has to count for something; if Quelin was perceiving Muriel as partly female, that's an intrinsic part of who Muriel IS. We think we should honor that. (Neil has had plenty of opportunity to debate Quelin's usage, but never has.)

(Food for thought: If we accept this sort of "mixed" pronoun usage as valid in the Good Omens universe, it could apply to other angels or demons, not just to Muriel!)

Archangels played by actresses:

In the script book, when Aziraphale speaks to the 4 archangels, it says; “The room of angels in slick suits. There are four of them, male and female.” It doesn't specify WHO is female, though, and ALL the archangels have non-female pronouns elsewhere in the book, so...?

Uriel:

"He" in the script book, no pronouns otherwise.

Michael:

“He” in the script book. Neil has used "they."

Angels and demons played by male actors:

All of them are referred to with male pronouns, both within the series and by Neil. However:

Hastur:

Briefly had a female appearance in the scene where Aziraphale and Crowley are kidnapped, but no pronouns were used at the time. In the script book, the “lady tourist” is referred to as "she" when whacking Crowley… and then is referred to as "her" even AFTER transforming into Hastur with a wig.

Ligur:

In the book, Ligur was intriguingly referred to as “it” while he was dying, but immediately thereafter was referred to as "he." That paragraph appears almost word for word in the script book; it refers to him as "he" instead of "it."

Sandalphon:

Referred to in the script book as "it."

Metatron:

"He" in the book and season 2.

God:

Neil said: Jesus uses "Father". Aziraphale uses "She" pronouns for God and Crowley uses "They". I don't think the God in the Good Omens TV universe has a gender.

In the book, Aziraphale, Crowley and Metatron refer to God as He. In the script book, Aziraphale refers to God as She, and Crowley refers to God as They and She.

We think the bottom line is: These are FICTIONAL characters inhabiting a universe where there are few canonical rules for pronouns or gender for supernatural beings. This is a perfect vehicle for choice, which has so much importance to the story. You may start out on opposite sides, you may start out as a genderless being, you may start out as a sexless being, but you can choose something different for yourself. The importance of choice in Good Omens is one of the things that makes it great!

There’s a lot of fic and art that depicts the characters in different ways; everyone should feel comfortable portraying them the way they choose without the worry that someone is going to be upset with them. We’ve both seen a lot of comments to the tune of, “you’re not using the correct pronouns” or “that’s not the correct sexual orientation,” and that’s not good fandom etiquette. Being open-minded and kind to one another as we flesh out this universe for ourselves is just basic courtesy. Neil himself has said that in fandom, any interpretation is valid! The Good Omens fandom is largely a microcosm of the queer community; we need to practice acceptance amongst ourselves, so that we can stand together against those in the wider world who want to tear us down!

Anyone who wants to discuss personal gender issues can feel free to message @Princess-Spock; remember that if you ask anonymously, there's no way to reply to you!

#GoodOmens #GOS2 #Crowley #Aziraphale #NeilGaiman #IneffableGender #IneffablePronouns #GoodOmensGender #GoodOmensPronouns #GoodOmensMeta #GoodOmensSeason2

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