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wibble-wobbegong · 2 years

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I desperately need people to understand that mike really, truly does want to have a good relationship with el. he always looks so happy when they have their little platonic moments alone, where he doesn’t feel like he has to perform for her or anyone else. he likes el, he wants to be her friend, he cares about her, but their romantic relationship is stopping him from having that. they aren’t soulmates and it’ll take time for them to become real friends because of how much they have to learn about each other but mike wants to do that so badly.

the best example is their moment at sbp. mike’s eyes are shining, he’s smiling, he’s making jokes and trying to make el laugh. he looks so happy to have her back, knowing she’s safe and they’re having fun!!

mike’s happy to hear that el missed him, because he missed her too!!

it’s the moment that they switch to a conversation that pertains to their relationship that the light dies out in mike’s eyes, that he grows somber and his eyes look dead.

he wants to be el’s friend but he hates being her boyfriend. he’s scared of losing her by breaking up with her. it’s so obvious he wants her in his life, that he wants her to stay around but the relationship they feel they have to be in is torturing both of them and making those happy moments hurt more knowing that it isn’t the relationship they actually have. the one they have now is full of fighting and repression and hurt but they want to be friends because they care about each other and enjoy each other’s company

will they be perfect friends? no! they have vastly different interests and mike’s connection with her is almost entirely built upon that week they had where they were platonic and mike got to learn about her. mike could never be what max is to el and el could never be what lucas or dustin is to mike but they still want to be friends. they still care about each other and are able to get along pretty well when they aren’t under tons and tons of societal pressure. they’re going to be really good friends someday and then they’ll finally get that relationship they’ve always wanted from each other

#had to say lucas instead of will bc comparing anyone to will is just unfair #nobody comes close to will #also max is el’s friend. mike is head over heels stupid for will #elmike #byler #anti mileven #mike analysis

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asocial-skye · 1 year

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i think the Jedi-Positive and Jedi-Critical stances can be summed up on whether you value authorial intent or authorial execution.

Most of the Jedi-Positive people I follow quote George Lucas and director commentaries to prove their points, as well as utilize analyses from others at LucasFilm that have to keep the general status quo. It's all based on what Lucas was trying to portray, while ignoring the product in execution.

The Jedi-Critical stance tends to look at the prequel execution, and they question the obvious uncomfortable moments that have real-life parallels to atrocities. They tend to be more Legends fans, whose writers actually delved into the terrifying implications. It's all on criticizing execution while disregarding intent.

Like, take the argument about Jedi children. A Jedi-Positive person would argue that all the children are all given up with consent from their parents; this is what I am sure Lucas was intending to portray. A Jedi-Critical person will look at this and go "wait. how much 'consent' was in this encounter? the government can legally take these kids and have a representative show up to a farmer's house and tell the farmer they can technically say no? that is some bullshit." And there is real-life evidence for this. It's more on the execution.

Or the argument about love. Jedi-Positive people turn to Lucas's interview to show that they really meant it in the Buddhist sense, and if you value intent that works. Jedi-Critical people would argue that the marketing states that the Jedi cannot love, and nothing in the movies states that the Jedi meant non-toxic love when they eschew attachments.

They're both valid positions, but I think a lot of fandom brutality comes from not understanding either view, or demeaning one view in favor of another. It's perfectly acceptable to value one over the other.

#star wars #starwars #jedi #jedi order #the jedi order #star wars meta #sw fandom meta #sw #sw prequels #sw fandom #pro jedi #anti jedi #jedi critical #jedi positivity #I also think a lot of it is also based on filters as well #but i didn't want to crowd the post #lucas used a fairytale structure to write his story #but there's still a huge portion of deconstruction in canon stuff #maybe i'll write more

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whatsitzface · 1 year

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Do I think that El should break up with Mike to truly find herself and become indepandant, without a romantic releationship? Yes. Do I also think that El should join in with Lumax and start dating them? Yes. These two statements can co-exist.

#elumax #lumax #elmax #hopclair #anit mileven #milkvan is bones #max mayfield #lucas sinclair #el hopper #stranger things #byler #because you guys also ship elumax #anti mileven #<thanks to that person for pointing out i made a spelling mistake :))

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endiness · 1 year

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tbh i feel like people who think will and eddie would get along fundamentally do not understand will and are just eddie stans who cannot be objective when it comes to his character and want to shoehorn him into everything regardless if it actually works.

#will byers #stranger things #!txt: stranger things #anti eddie munson #they would not get along okay #especially on will's side of things #they have completely clashing personality types #like eddie uses his differences to lord his own moral superiority over other people #nothing about that is something that would appeal to will in any way #like will is the type of person who even if he doesn't like something #he would still not be a jerk about it to the people that do #and if anything he would defend their right to like it #eddie is also incredibly brash #and again that is something that just does not gel with will's personality #like if will had been there during the cafeteria scene #he would've been cringing and facepalming the entire time #if not rolling his eyes and being annoyed at edddie needlessly antagonizing people and making enemies for no reason #on top of being uncomfortable and nervous bc likE seriously why are you TRYING to cause trouble #also will absolutely would've gone to lucas's game and supported him instead #i am js

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starbylers · 10 months

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It’s honestly exasperating to see Will’s feelings constantly reduced to ‘just a crush’, people saying that Will’s van speech was ‘what any good friend would do’…No. It was a love confession (disguised, but still a love confession). It was not just someone giving a motivational talk to their bestie, but Mlvns wish it was and this is why I’m so sure Byler is endgame. The reason they constantly downplay the sheer depth of Will’s romantic love for Mike, try to attribute the van scene to Will ‘being a supportive friend’, and pretend those feelings also belong to El, is because it’s insanely obvious that the Duffers choosing to focus on this intense and beautiful love Will has for Mike, to constantly emphasise how much pain this love is causing him (he literally breaks down crying in the van, this is way past a friendly chat) points to Mlvn being finished 😭. We all know it makes no sense storytelling-wise to show character A loving character B that much (in exactly the way that soothes character B’s insecurities, whilst not showing anything even approaching that level of feeling from B’s other love interest), just for them to not end up together. Will’s love has to be this small, inconsequential thing that he will just ‘get over’, he has to be just ‘giving Mike friendly advice based on feelings El also shares’, because otherwise the direction of the story is laughably obvious.

#byler #anti mileven #like genuinely try and picture Lucas or Dustin giving Mike that speech #lmao it would be absurd because even though Will and Mike are also friends Will’s words are rooted in romantic love NOT friendship #Mlvn pales in comparison to the way Will’s love for Mike was portrayed #and Mlvns realise that too so they are forced to subscribe to a different (incorrect) interpretation of Will’s role in the story #in order for their endgame to make sense

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smithsibsceo · 1 year

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lucas sinclair HAS NOT been saving everyones asses continuously since season 1 (and being the best character whilst doing so) for this fandom to reduce him to byler comparisons

#stranger things #stranger things lucas #lucas sinclair #lucas sinclair supremacy #i dont understand (genuinely) how people can dislike him?? like what?? hes literally an unproblematic king. hes done nothing wrong.#he doesnt have to be ur fave but actually literally hating him?? theres gotta be an element of racism somewhere.#also please note that im NOT anti byler. i am in fact a byler.#anti billy hargrove #anti harringrove #anti billy stans #billy stans dni

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scarlyrubies · 1 year

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... I laughed a little

#don't kill me alright #it's just. this sentence is really funny.#like- it highlights the fact that it was only six days...and idk. idk #and I KNOW that lumax also knew each other for a week before getting together #but turns out Lucas wasn't the very first boy of her age that Max met after getting out of a lab HA HA ha #so a much more genuine connection #(and with actual chemistry hum hum)#anyway #anti mileven #milkvan is bones #byler #me posts! ✰

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musicalchaos07 · 1 year

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Now Playing (Taylor's Version) Volume 2

A continuation of this post

#I warned y'all I had ideas #now 100% more depressing #also ft the more deep cuts tbh #stranger things #jopper #jancy #byler #lumax #does this count as anti stancy?#joyce byers #jim hopper #nancy wheeler #jonathan byers #mike wheeler #will byers #max mayfield #lucas sinclair #steve harrington #st photo edit

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cavinginhisfvce · 1 year

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This is what I wanted, right?

TW: Major character death.

Link to alt ending in comments.

If you asked anyone, they'd tell you just how much Max dislikes her asshole of a step brother, Billy. They'd tell you how she curses him to filth almost daily.

Dislike was too weak a word, because she downright hated him, wished one day he would leave and never come back.

God, she can't recall the number of times she laid in bed and prayed for him to just vanish. He was by far the worst person Max had ever met in her fourteen years of life. He made her life hell.

He blamed her for their move, he blamed her for the way Neil treated her.

It wasn't like it was Max's fault that she was well behaved, and Billy was always getting into trouble. It wasn't her fault Neil was an asshole to Billy.

None of this was her fault, right?

Right?

The call came at almost four in the morning, Max remembers being annoyed with the shrill of the household phone as it pierced the silence that envelops the surrounding area.

She could hear Neil's gruff voice as he spoke to whomever had interrupted their rest.

He was about to lay into them, Max could tell, before he stopped short and the sound of the phone slapping against the wall echoed in the young girl's ears.

Her stomach began to twist itself into a knot as she slipped out of her bed and padded into the kitchen where she found both Neil and her mother with tears spilling from their eyes.

She didn't dare speak. She was too afraid to, because in the years she's known her step father, he's never been one to cry. Yet here he was, silently bawling his eyes out into her mother's nightgown while she visibly bit back sobs.

It was painfully obvious no one was going to speak, so Max softly cleared her throat and spoke, her fingers twisting into the loose fabric of her pajama shirt.

"What's going on…?"

Max was wholly unprepared for the way Neil's steel blue eyes fell on her, she could feel herself freeze up from the intensity, but even after looking directly at her, nobody spoke.

The young girl wracked her mind for any inkling of what might've happened. It had to be serious for Neil to be freely crying. But, why wouldn't anyone just tell her? They both knew, but Max was in the dark. As always, she was on the outside of whatever everyone else knew.

It was like the reason for leaving Cali all over again. No one had told her exactly why they had moved, all she got when she asked was a "ask your brother," when she questioned Neil about it.

With a frustrated huff, the red-haired girl crossed her arms over her chest, lips twisting into a frown. "What did Billy do this time?"

That question seemed to have done it, because a second later Neil was dropping to his knees and letting out an anguished cry. Her mom was by his side immediately, but her gaze found Max's and her eyes softened in a way Max had only seen when her mom was telling her one of her random pets had died.

But Max didn't have any pets...and why would a pet dying be connected to Billy—A gasp ripped through her as she furiously shook her head, the reality finally settling in as she connected the dots.

"M-Mom...is Billy okay?" There was no verbal response, only a tearful shake of her mom's head as she let out another round of tears.

Max could feel her heart plummet to her stomach as she yet again began to shake her head, this time in disbelief.

It wasn't true. It couldn't be true. She was clearly misunderstanding.

Billy was just hurt, right? Probably laid up in a hospital bed, giving the nurses a hard time while they fretted over him.

But one glance at the heap that was her mother and step father, she knew.

"Ma...Please, is Billy d—" she stopped herself from finishing, a startled sob sans any tears bubbling from her own lips.

She felt so confused. Isn't this what she dreamed of? A world where Billy was gone. A world where he was no longer around to bother her and her friends?

She fucking prayed for someone, or something to take him away.

She had never shied away from telling her shithead of a step brother that she wished he would just die. He always cackled at that, and flipped her the bird like it was some kind of joke between them. It wasn't. She wanted Billy gone.

But, now he was. He was gone. She should be happy. She doesn't even know how he died. No one had said. Or maybe they didn't know just yet.

There was no happiness, no relief. Just pure pain and guilt.

She hadn't even cried over him dying, it felt unreal. Like at any moment he would come flying down the street in the Camaro as loud ass music blared from the tinny speakers.

Neither thing happened. No tears and no Billy.

The days following Billy's death had gone by in a blur, Neil had jumped ship the morning after that God awful call, leaving her and her mother to grieve alone, to remain alone. He wasn't coming back, that much was obvious from the things he took with him, from the way he'd just seemed to vanish without even saying goodbye.

Billy left without saying goodbye too.

Max felt numb almost, like that night in the kitchen had drained her of any and all fight. When the news broke to The Party, they dragged her to Mrs. Byers house and ordered pizza. She wasn't hungry, but she picked at her two slices until just the crust remained.

She couldn't figure out why the pizza hadn't at least tasted good.

It tasted like ash on her tongue, and it wasn't until just the crust remained that it dawned on her.

It was a month after Neil and Susan's wedding when Neil had shoved some money into Billy's hand and demanded he take his sister out to get something to eat.

Max hadn't seen the fear in her step brother's eyes because Billy had covered it with a scowl and dragged her to the nearby pizza shop. It was just off the beach, and they had the best garlic knots according to him.

Max was skeptical to try one, but once she did, she all but scarfed down almost half the order, Billy had simply laughed and dug into one of his slices of Pizza.

(He made sure to order some more.)

However, instead of biting into it like everyone else would, the older boy simply ripped the crusts off and popped them into his mouth; leaving the slices otherwise untouched as he happily munched on them. Only now beginning to rip into a few garlic knots.

Max scrunched her nose up at that. She couldn't believe anyone actually liked the crust. It was the worst part of the pizza. She said as much and Billy had gasped in surprise at her.

"Maxine, are you telling me you actually enjoy the nasty ass tomato paste and gooey ass cheese?" It was Max's turn to gasp at the boy sitting across from her, "that's literally the point of the pizza, asshole!"

Billy for his part, just shook his head and snatched up her abandoned crusts before sliding his own plate in front of her. The girl just squinted at him, which prompted an eye roll from the elder, "If you're not gonna eat the crust and I'm not gonna eat the pizza, we can just trade off, Shitbird."

Max was satisfied by that and happily nodded her head as she tore into the now lukewarm slice.

From then on, Max and Billy shared pizza just that way. He ate the crust, she ate the slice. Even after moving to Hawkins, and the strain it'd put on their already weak relationship, they continued with the weird habit. Their parents didn't understand, but neither cared when the food was at least not getting wasted.

Max's stomach churned at the memory, she didn't have much of a chance to dwell on it before she was racing to the trash can, the barely settled contents of her stomach splattering the inside of it.

Her body was tense as she heaved, her grip on the bin was turning her knuckles white but she didn't right herself or let go until the last wave of nausea freed her entirely.

When it had, she dropped her head between her legs and finally let out a loud cry.

It was as if once she started, she couldn't stop. The floodgates had finally opened and all Max could do now was cry. All she wanted to do was cry, cry, cry.

Mrs. Byers, at some point, emptied out the garbage can, but Max stayed perched beside it, her eyes unfocused and watery as her group of friends settled alongside her silently.

It only startles everyone a little, when Max croaks out,

"he only liked the crusts, like a fuckin' w-weirdo…" No one had to question who she was talking about, it was rather obvious to all the teens; but still, they all seemed shocked at the confession. "Said the rest of the pizza was just a soggy triangle of bread."

She breathes out a humorless laugh, shaking her head at nothing in particular, "I think he just refused to admit he was lactose intolerant or something. He never ate cereal or used milk in his coffee. If mom made mac and cheese, he left it on his plate."

Neil would get upset with him, but there were only a few occasions Max could recall where he actually made Billy eat the pasta.

It was Steve who spoke up, his brows furrowed in confusion, his tone was hollow, but his face held a twinge of realization. "No fucking wonder he'd come into Scoops to just buy ice cream and throw it away..."

Nancy turned to face her friend, her mouth opening and closing unsurely, but it was Will who beat her to speaking, shyly saying, "uh, Steve. I think he did that just to see you."

Max couldn't help but agree to that. She knew her brother was absolutely infatuated with Steve Harrington, though he would sooner die than admit that.

Which, bitterly Max notes, was exactly what happened.

Max tuned out the rest of the conversation, it wasn't intentional, she just couldn't keep up with the chatter. It felt pointless to pretend she was interested in anything at the moment.

Eventually, Jonathan offered to drive her home, even though nobody else was leaving, she agreed.

Despite the dread that filled her stomach at the thought of returning to a Billy-less Cherry Lane, she let herself be guided outside.

The feeling was persistent in a way it hasn't been since that night, but she let the eldest Byers boy take her anyway, she didn't really have a choice.

When she was getting out of the car, she noticed Neil's truck was missing, that wasn't surprising, but what did surprise her was that in its place was Billy's Camaro, but it wasn't there when she left earlier in the day.

Hopper must've brought it back for them. He was absent from the meet up today, which usually only happened because of work. El hadn't been there either, which was unusual, but Max hadn't dwelled on it.

He parked it as neatly as Billy always does...did.

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samaspic31 · 1 year

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Everytime i watch or read old sw material I’m like. Oh that’s where filoni got this idea. Oh that’s who filoni named this character after. I swear, he actually invents so so so so little. The bad batch is delta squad copy pasted and watered down. He even take arcs from the fucking droids 2D animated series and he gets away with it because too few people have watched it

Also did you know there’s a dumb villain named KYBO REN in the fucking 2D droids cartoon. I have gone fully insane since watching that episode. Not even the name is original about kyle Ron it’s a fucking droids reference

#anti dave filoni #Dave felony #tbb #anti tbb #his Star Wars is stupid. stupider than Lucas and god knows that got really dumb with Star Wars at times #side eyes the phantom menace #and of course that’s filoni’s favourite. lol #derivative and not even that interestingly derivative #sam speaks #star wars #Dave filoni #there’s also a bike model from droids in rebels and tcw #I’m sure I can blame the return of the blurggs from the ewok movies on him #kylo ren #what a namesake he has hfhfufjd

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suwunnysideup · 1 year

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anyways, if the reblogs and tags didn’t clarify enough: this blog is fucking NOT a welcome space for billy stans.

he’s a fucking racist and abusive asshole of a man. yes he was abused, but that gives us the reason for his actions, it does not fucking excuse it. y’all do triple backflips through flaming hoops to defend this man while demonizing female characters (mainly nancy) for literally being teenagers. nancy called a relationship bullshit bc she was drunk and in agony over losing a friend and having everyone act like it never happened. she pointed a gun at steve to scare him off because a fucking demogorgon was coming and he didn’t know. she takes up arms to defend the kids from so many different threats while also dealing with her own fucking issues. billy threw lucas against a wall and threatened to break him just bc he was black and hanging around max. yes, he definitely could’ve used a support system like jonathan had, but he never fucking tried to make one. he and max could’ve tried to bond together under the abuse of neil. he could’ve talked to somebody - anybody - but he chose not to and instead lash out and take his rage out on anyone and everyone. did the narrative treat him weirdly? yes, i think so. but that doesn’t make him into this uwu soft boy y’all want him to be so desperately. like, this is the man who wanted to beat on kids and literally tried to bash steve’s face in with his fists. he intimidates and pushes around anyone he can, namely max and lucas. the duffer brothers and caleb confirmed his actions were racially motivated towards lucas. i’m not saying he deserved to die, nor am i ignoring the obvious trauma he went through, but i’m not using it to justify his actions and make excuses for his shitty behavior.

idc how y’all headcanon him but it’s fucking weird how much y’all wanna change about him to make him into ur sad boy of the month. anyways, rant fucking over with.

#sunny speaks #stranger things #anti billy hargrove #anti billy stans #billy hargrove #nancy wheeler #max mayfield #lucas sinclair #argue with the wall idc.#y’all r weird trying to make nancy into this ableist abuser when billy is literally right fucking there #high chance that if u come in my inbox i won’t answer bc y’all r so tiring sometimes #yes admittedly nancy calling steve bullshit hurt him but he was also!! not a great boyfriend!!#he wanted her to ignore and forget all her trauma to be normal teenagers and that’s a shitty thing to ask!#and with robin she was tired and just saw her friend be brutally killed while she couldn’t help (again)#and had to be paired off with someone who seemingly also didn’t believe her (again)#so ofc she’s gonna be short with robin. but it wasn’t bc she’s a fucking ableist #media literacy we’ve failed you #discourse

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b-else-writes · 1 year

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The Jedi Are the Elite, Not the Underdogs in the Prequels

I cannot believe i had to read with my own two eyes a take that the Jedi in the Star Wars Prequels occupy some of the lowest rungs in society because something something "they're meant to be Buddhist monks!!" and "it's based off the Hidden Fortress and the Jedi are the two peasants!!!" - what an utterly brain-dead take that fundamentally misunderstands how the Jedi are actually portrayed in the story, fundamentally misunderstands which characters from Hidden Fortress Lucas was grafting onto which character, and fundamentally misunderstands what story the Prequels were (badly) trying to tell.

So first, at the absolute most basic level, the two peasant characters in Hidden Fortress (which Lucas pulled most from for A New Hope and Phantom Menace) correspond, in Lucas' own words, to C3PO and R2D2 in the A New Hope, and Anakin and Jar Jar in Phantom Menace, NOT any of the Jedi characters. Obi-Wan, the only explicit Jedi in ANH, was inspired by Toshiro Mifune's character, who is, guess what, nobility (as men/samurai of a general status usually were in that time period). Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in TPM occupy that same role as well. It is Anakin (and Jar-Jar, who was expelled from his own society and an outcast) who occupies the lowest rung in society, because he's a literal slave and it's that very fact that drives the entire plot. Yes, Anakin is Force-Sensitive, but he isn't a Jedi in TPM, and he is always narratively positioned as being "not one of them" throughout the story (more on this in a minute).

Which brings us to point two - how are the Jedi actually portrayed in the Prequels? It's an old hat to be like "they're the Space cops" but, well, they are the Space Cops. The Jedi are part of the bureaucratic systems of the Galactic Republic. They can speak directly to the Chancellor and offer advice, they are dispatched to quell unrest in the Republic's name. Visually, they are designed to convey power and prestige based on Western cultural cues (large buildings with European facades, marble, white/beige clothes that are sweeping and regal, rare genetic magical powers, and of course, swords).

The defense I've seen is that the Jedi do not have power because they aren't in charge and have to answer to the Chancellor/Republic, but this is like saying, "the military doesn't have power because it has to answer to the President/Prime Minister", it's nonsensical. While the Jedi are referred to as monks and practice a veneer of vague Hollywood Buddhist beliefs, in practice, they operate like Samurai (because again, that was what Lucas was drawing from), who again, held high prestige and power in society. They are not the scrappy underdogs or the downtrodden poor. And they are certainly not slaves.

And that's where the fundamental thing comes in of what story were the Prequels trying to tell? Fundamentally, Anakin's fall is a story about the elites in society taking a child who is at the very bottom (a slave) and raising him up onto their level, while simultaneously having nothing but contempt for him, and then systematically failing him at every turn until he decides that the only solution is that the system is completely broken and we should do Fascism (for the record i'm not saying the Prequels tell this story well, and handle it with the subtlety of a brick to the face like Anakin quite literally paraphrases George Bush). Because the Prequels were written in the late 90s-early 2000s by an American man and are a blunt commentary on the elites in the USA failing and sliding into unnecessary war and growing fascism. It's a story about the fall of a society. And for this entire morality tale of Lucas' to work, it would mean that the Jedi are the Elite as well.

And they are - they're shown to be ineffectual and not very smart and their powers have grown weak and they can't see what's directly in front of them! They have become entrenched into the corrupt system. It matters that it is Anakin who occupies the lowest rung in society and not the Jedi, and that is why he is never one of them and what drives the entire story of his fall (for the record (2), this isn't saying Anakin was RIGHT to become fascist).

I think a lot of people try to twist this because they desperately want to love the Jedi (which you can) but can't reconcile that narratively they're portrayed as having messed-up very very badly and that the entire system that they were part of didn't work and shouldn't have been done that way (#maybe Jacen was onto something before he did Space Fascism 2.0), so they try to say that no, no, no, it's the Jedi who are the scrappy underdogs. But to do that is to just completely misunderstand and misrepresent what is actually being presented.

#jedi critical #anti jedi #i guess?? is it anti jedi to be like the prequels themselves were about the jedi failing and also the jedi had power #also me sliding in a little jacen mention there because i am re-reading the Yuuzhan Vong arc and you know what #he kinda had a point in vector prime that the Jedi are not Space Police #like Baby Anakin literally says “we're the law” and Jacen says no we're not like idk if that was written in response to the PT airing then #but it is accurate to what Lucas was presenting us about the Jedi #cannot believe i'm saying in 2023 that Jacen was one of the most interesting part of vector prime but that is also a low bar #where was i going with this #anyways the jedi are military caste elite. you can love them in the PT but they are meant to be experiencing hubris for what they've become #star wars meta #jedi meta

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