OG Choi Han they could never make me hate you cause if some random rich boy was yelling at me and telling me my family deserved to die like a day after it happened and all I wanted was to know how I could get help I’d beat him up too
This plus the added fact that the Harris Village people were the first people to take Choi Han in and take care of him after years and years in the dark forest. Like he’s obviously not going to be mentally stable after all that, and he was so young when everything happened to him like I cannot blame him at all. I don’t think I can ever hate OG Choi Han like ever, he’s flawed, he has problems, but I love him dearly. He deserves the world. This kid who had to fight for his life, was taken away from his family, and in the process had to give up parts of his own humanity to survive, and like went to war two years later, they could never make me hate u OG Choi Han…
Like yeah violence is bad I guess but OG Cale had it coming(saying this as an OG Cale fan, I love him, but he was mean as hell when he was younger!)
If I’m honest, I think they were both in the wrong to an extent. Like OG Cale shouldn’t have said all that no matter the circumstances, and OG Choi Han shouldn’t have beaten him up so much. But u say mean shit and you get hit, that is how it will work when you’re talking to the guy who just saw his entire village get murdered like idkkkk man
I understand where OG Cale was coming from, but he had many issues and while he wasn’t an awful person, he was capable of doing bad things because of his own internalized pain and emotions that he never got to properly process because of his emotionally distant childhood and relationship with his father who should have been there for him more when he was younger.
Okay speaking of his childhood, Deruth isn’t the WORST father in the world but there are a lot of things he could have done better. I think a lot of Deruth’s flaws come from his fear of failure and messing up. He’s scared of doing the wrong thing, and so he sticks to doing what he knows and using what he knows best. That’s why he uses his money, that’s why gift giving is his way of showing affection, he knows that it is one thing he cannot mess up.
The problem is that money and gifts is NOT what OG Cale needed. I think what that guy needed the most was a parent who wasn’t afraid to talk to him, to ask him questions. Not to say that Deruth gave up on OG Cale, but I think in a way he gave up on OG Cale by giving up on himself. Deruth didn’t trust himself to have the capabilities to talk to OG Cale, which is why he never did. It’s because that Deruth was scared, and didn’t trust himself, that he could never face OG Cale
If Deruth was able to trust himself a little more, and pull himself together, I don’t think OG Cale would have turned out the way he did. As a kid, he probably thought the only way he could help his family without relying on anyone(no doubt this whole ‘I have to do it myself’ thing came from the fact that he couldn’t rely on his father when his mom died, and instead was acting as a pillar of support for his father when it should have been the other way around) was to sabotage himself, the only heir. If he was shown to be unfit to be heir, then everyone else would have no choice but to direct their hatred towards him instead of his family.
If Deruth had talked to his son at least ONCE when he was a kid, asking him why he was upset or why he did the things he did, I think OG Cale would have told him. Why? Because he’s a kid!! A kid will obviously want to rely on his father, if he just had one sign telling him that he didn’t have to do it alone I’m 90% sure OG Cale would have said something.
Basically, while Deruth isn’t the worst father, he’s not really a great father either. I think he does do his best, but he has issues with communication lol
OG Cale and OG Choi Han are both complex characters and had their own reasons to behave the way they did. The thing is with people is that they’re complicated and have layers, so the situation with them would have layers behind it as well with multiple co-existing truths and stuff
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Marcus and Fighting
Ok, I wanna talk about something real quick: where did the fandom belief that Marcus is aggressive come from?
Like he's not? The few scenes where we see him upset are scary, yes, but he never physically lashes out at any character in them. He slams his hands down on a table in the jail disownment scene, which is a common behavioral cue of frustration. And he looks mad... which makes sense because he's in jail! I don't think many other people would be that happy about that situation either. Yet he never hits the glass, threatens his kid physically, or raises his voice more than one time. Did he handle the situation well? No, but I wouldn't call that straight up aggressive.
He was upset and frustrated, so his body language said that. He's in an extremely stressful situation and is having to mentally process a lot. Everything is going to be big emotions for him, but that doesn't make him aggressive for feeling those.
And as for the bank robbing stuff? The nearby police didn't know of the crime until the alarm goes off. Most banks have a hidden button at every desk that deals with customers that alerts police silently of a robbery. The fact that the nearby police were clueless means that button was not pressed and therefore the people in the bank likely didn't see them either. They didn't hurt anyone.
And then, when they were caught by cops later in the movie? They didn't even try to run, let alone fight. Marcus, along with the others, turned himself in without any fuss. Not what you would expect if someone was a violent and aggressive criminal.
And as for in the second movie? Neither Marcus, Stan, or Barry throw the first punch. In fact, they only act defensively. They're trying to keep the guards out of the theatre. That's it. They don't go out of their way to attack Suki or Jerry when they are just standing there because they aren't posing threats to the troupe. And the gang was just defending them, not going out and picking fights.
See? Jerry was fine, despite clearly being a Crystal employee. If Marcus or any of the others had been trying to hurt people, he would have been hurt. But they left him alone.
They even wait to make sure that the guards are going to attack them and only move when they do, going by school rules of "never throw the first punch and make sure you have witnesses to prove you didn't". Technically, since they did that, they could argue self-defense.
And they did also give them the chance to just walk away as well, gently pushing Jimmy away when he tries to get in.
Sure, Marcus enjoys boxing. But that doesn't mean he's an aggressive guy. I did years of martial arts and was pretty good at it but I still flinch when I see people get paper cuts and avoid conflict like the plague. It was just a sport I liked. The same is probably true with Marcus.
Besides, we see Johnny do boxing as well and I don't think anyone could possibly ever call that ball of anxious energy stuffed inside a theatre kid's body aggressive.
Marcus is not actually committing acts of outright aggression in the two moments that he's commonly marked as being aggressive in. Instead he's upset/frustrated and protective. He never actually harms a character without an actual reason to do so, with the only reason we see being his son potentially being hurt. He's not aggressive, he's just a parent with emotions.
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(Image description below 'read more' line.)
[Image ID: A four-by-four alignment chart on a white background with text descriptions to the left and to the top of the squares.
The top left description reads, "seems like they'd be good at parenting." The top right description reads, "seems like they'd be bad at parenting."
Then, from the top down, to the left of the squares, the other set of descriptions reads: "excellent child rearing instincts," and "never trust them with a child in your life."
Each of the four squares contains an image of a different character. At the top left is an image of Lan Wangji of the Mo Dao Zu Shi donghua. He sits between the descriptors "seems like they'd be good at parenting," and "excellent child rearing instincts."
In the top right square sits an image of Wei Wuxian, also of the Mo Dao Zu Shi donghua. He sits between the junction of "seems like they'd be bad at parenting" and "excellent child rearing instincts."
In the bottom left square is an image of Xie Lian from the Tian Guan Ci Fu manhua. He occupies the square with the captions, "seems like they'd be good at parenting" and "never trust them with a child in your life."
Finally, in the bottom left square, sits an image of Hua Cheng from the Tian Guan Ci Fu manhua. He occupies the junction between "seems like they'd be bad at parenting" and "never trust them with a child in your life". /End ID]
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What is your favourite thing about Billie Lurk?
(Answers are obvious possibly but i love when people talk about her👍)
thanks for the ask!! YEAH ME TOO I love when people talk about Billie! I can't say I have a favourite thing specifically, but I can explain why she's my fav. apologies for not taking this qn literally, but -
short answer: she’s really cool
& you can stop reading there, or, for the maybe 2 mutuals who might have time to read this my thoughts on her as a character, her meta, and her character as raw potential...
long answer:
i considered making this entire thing a gush so you could read a gush about Billie. but, part of what draws me to her is that she’s not always well written, and in fandom she’s underrated for a literal protagonist.
since you ask...
billie is a cool character
when I played Dh2 (hadn't played Dh1), I was excited to see a black woman with disabilities who was captaining a massive ship by herself. wow.
then I discovered Billie’s backstory with Deirdre, the way she responded to that, then having to survive while living on the run, and her bisexuality. as well as her history with daud & delilah. fascinating!
she’s an outsider who has so much to lose, and knows what it's like to lose everything - having lost everything not once but three times - but nevertheless speaks truth to power. she's so brave! she went and helped Emily & Corvo and she must have known they might kill her! plus, she’s smart, she’s funny, she gets shit done, she’s gorgeous.
but... the meta
mild critique of fandom & arkane incoming.
skip this bit if you want - you've been warned twice now - jump to tired Hayao Miyazaki and read from there if you'd like my thoughts on writing her.
i thought Death of the Outsider was going to be amazing and then... well. *sad trombone* i've written about that before so i won't keep banging on. i figured others must be disappointed too, so I joined a few fandom spaces in hopes of finding camaraderie.
most people with complaints about DotO didn’t like how the Outsider and Daud were handled. which is valid & I agree. but it seemed like most paid no attention to Billie; when people talk about her it’s with respect to Daud, as opposed to in her own right. you could argue for fandom misogyny because people don’t talk about adult Emily Kaldwin that much either, but in Billie's case, it’s misogynoir (compare & contrast with the popularity of thomas, particularly the popularity of thomas portrayed as a white man for no particular reason that i've been able to discern - i keep asking around, is it in the books???).
i think this is a LOT better now than it used to be, which is fantastic. or perhaps i have found the correct echo-chamber? ha.
ultimately, The Fandom is a fraction of the entire picture, and not even the important bit since The Fandom is not who these games are made for. you can't make money relying on only your hardcore fans even if all of them spent a fortune on merch, this is true for any AAA game.
while it's true that Billie is underrated from a fandom perspective - but Billie as an underwritten protagonist is squarely Arkane’s fault.
it was reasonable when she was a side character - the lack of info in Dh2 makes perfect sense (if anything there was more lore in Dh2 which is kind of wild)-
- but as a protagonist in Death of the Outsider?
.... there’s lousy writing, and there’s whatever is going on with Billie Lurk, a black woman who mostly exists as a foil or saviour for light-skinned characters. In her own game there’s barely any of her own lore except where it's relevant to saving two dudes.
lore hints at, but barely touches on what race means in the Dh universe (xenophobia is stronger in Dh1; separate essay i guess), but Arkane has patted themselves on the back for portraying non-white characters, which feels like the same thing as the aesthetic of diversity we're seeing in advertising currently because it’s in marketing trend guides. it's self-congratulatory and it's a missed opportunity for deeper storytelling.
you can see an example of diversity at its most shallow in the way that Billie’s written: there’s little engagement with her as an entire person with history & wants & preferences, and the world she walks through in that game feels like it has nothing to do with her. you could make a case for alienation as a theme, but then, how do you handle the titular premise of 'Dishonored' without ever letting Billie make changes in an environment without a chaos system? it's disappointing from that angle too.
in my opinion, whatever it's worth, it was an accident Arkane created such an awesome character - they needed someone to betray daud. congrats billie.
all this said, it makes her an underdog as far as characters to enjoy & create art & stories for. it's nice to find so many like-minded, switched on people! <3
billie's character potential
she’s got a wealth of unexplored lore, being deeply intertwined with both Karnaca & Dunwall’s fates & criminal underbellies, as well as her connections to the witches & whalers, and three Empresses.
she’s lived a few distinct lifetimes and in the games we get to meet her at two peaks (KoD & DotO) & a low (Dh2 as Meagan).
her voice is very distinct, her dry & often dark humour is entertaining & fun to write. her perspective is really interesting - she’s had the widest variety of void-powers of anyone canonically, and she’s also lived through the highest highs and lowest lows.
she's got everything going for her :) i couldn't really pick a fav thing!
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What she says: I'm fine.
What she means: I just don't understand how the showrunners of EoA expected me, an English major, to cope with their explicitly and visually coding Elena and Esteban as narrative foils and two sides of the same coin throughout S3. And they weren't even remotely subtle about intertwining their characters, destinies, and relationship with each other.
They were just like "what if we gave Esteban and Elena the exact same unique, transformative experience (i.e. falling in the crystal well and absorbing its magic) but ONLY them.? Then maybe, we explicitly seal up Takaina so that no one else can ever have that same experience again?"
And then if that wasn't blatant enough, they each get magical powers that are specifically tailored to their most notable character flaws (Esteban's running away from his responsibilities vs. Elena's emotional intensity and volatility). And if that still was a little too subtle, they also get matching sparkly outfits as souvenirs from their trip down the magic well. So that in every scene they have together (with the exception of the Coronation scene) from then on visually links the two of them together.
Like all of that is just barely scratching the surface of the thematic ramifications of this. Because at the end of the day, Esteban and Elena each metaphorically (if accidentally) gave the other their corresponding powers.
Esteban canonically gets his teleportation because Elena's new anger powers literally lift him up and throw him down the crystal well.
Similarly, Esteban is (albeit much more indirectly) somewhat responsible for Elena's magic as well. It's somewhat implied that the reason Elena is able to use the Scepter of Light in the first place (when presumably her parents and ancestors could not) is because of the Maruvian magic that she absorbed from her years in the Amulet. Crucially, a very real part of the reason that she was even in said amulet in the first place is due to Esteban's decision to smuggle Shuriki into Avalor. His (admittedly terrible) choice led to Elena's ability to use her greatest weapon and that very weapon (via spying on Ash with "Farsight") is what eventually leads Elena to Takaina where she gets her additional emotion powers.
That's canon, baby. Esteban's actions in the past indirectly give Elena her magic. Elena's direct (if accidental) actions in the present give Esteban his.
All of this alone is already more than enough to make me absolutely feral, but they just have to up the ante even more in the series finale. Esteban uses his teleportation powers to take the magical bullet for Elena; Elena uses her own emotion magic to bring him back to life after his sacrifice. They use their powers--the same powers that they technically gave to each other in the first place--to save each other.
And then, if all that isn't enough, they proceed to use each other's powers together in order to defeat the enemy. First, Esteban is able to break Cahu's hourglass by using Elena's scepter, and then the two of them are able to send Cahu back to the Spirit World through the combined power of the scepter and staff. They've converged into one tight, solid, united force for Good that is powerful beyond imagining.
And I am deeply insane about all of it.
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