#and doesn't have a life outside of being The Sidekick. doesn't get a character arc or much depth...

[starry-eyed-steve]

Some of you are really pissing me off, especially on twitter.

Maya never said Robin shouldn't get a gf, she voiced her concerns that Robin getting a gf would be the center of her character, and she's right to be worried.

Stranger Things branded itself as a show where friendships are the most important thing. However, over the years in the show and fandom, romantic relationships are mostly at the focus.

Jonathan, as soon as he started to date Nancy never saw an independent character arc until s4 where he wasn't with her. His character is simply a sidekick to Nancy. He doesn't grow, and his arc is mostly about Jancy. Like his struggles of being financially not well off or taking care of Will and his mom are swept under the rug. The major conflict in s3 was more about Nancy and how unsupportive Jonathan was as a boyfriend, instead of commenting on his social status and problems.

Steve, as soon as he was around Nancy again, ditched everything else. His relationships, which he created throughout the seasons, were tossed out the window. Even his scenes with Robin were suddenly all about love or Stancy. It's so tiresome because his character thrives the most when he's with Robin and the kids. There is no real balance for his character, which is upsetting. So I get some complaints about Robin being a cheerleader for a straight relationship (which was so ooc s3 Robin would never) instead of focusing on her character outside of romance in s4. The Duffers have simply no idea how to write relationships, platonic or romantic, at this point. Which again is exactly what Maya is concerned about, that Robin's platonic relationship with Steve will suffer even more because either of Robin prioritizing her romantic relationship, or Steve prioritizes his relationship over friendship. (Or both and they simply forget about each other)

Nancy, despite what the fandom says, is the least affected by those relationships, at least in the show. She has the most agency and always gets her plot outside of romance, and she is not as defined by her relationships as her romantic partners are (in the show). She's known as the investigator who is super smart and badass. However, she is still not allowed to have friends, besides the two that were mentioned in s2. Her romantic partners will become the most important people in her life. I kinda liked her friendship with Robin, but the fandom took it and made it into a romance, proving again that romantic relationships are the center of characters or are seen as more valuable and meaningful.

In s3, Mike's character was focused around El. He barely had time with his friends. El only gained another friend after temporarily breaking up with Mike. And again, in the beginning of s4, it's all about her romance, not so much how she misses her friends. Did she even write letters to Max and the party?

With Will, it's complicated. He's a gay kid discovering his sexuality and trying to live with that, so it's understandable that his arc is about romance/love. However, he also got majorly sidelined after s2, like does he have anything else going on besides that? What about discussing his trauma or focusing on other relationships besides Mike. Like I would have loved seeing him actively bond with El or hang out with Dustin (we never get to see them together)

Dustin has an independent story arc each season because his girlfriend isn't there with him, which allows him to have outside relationships and interests.

Lumax is the only couple that has some balance, like they are together, but the relationship doesn't define them like other characters. Both Lucas and Max make time for their friends and talk about other stuff. I would still argue that Lucas definitely deserves more character development and a more independent arc from Lumax. His struggles as a black kid often get sidelined in favor of the romantic plot.

So yes, Maya's fear that the show would make Robin ditch everything for romance is valid because it's happening all the time, especially to the teens! For example, even if the show develops the friendship between Nancy and Robin, the fandom would make it romantic. Like people cry as to why Maya can't promote the friendship between Nancy and Robin, when the majority of the fandom doesn't view it as platonic, and Maya knows that as well. Sidenote: It's also super annoying that as soon as a lesbian character hangs out with another girl, she automatically has to like her romantically, especially if she shows romantic interest in another character. (I have so many problems with Ronance, but that's not the point rn).

I don't want to see any Vickie slander either. The argument that this relationship is rushed or bad rep because it's more in the background is stupid. On the one hand people complain all the time that the cast is too big but when characters only get a few minutes of screentime to act as a love interest for a minor main character like Robin, it's also wrong. Plus, I literally don't want to hear that Vickie isn't much developed when people had no problems shipping Will with Gareth, who had just as much screentime if not less, and they never even met. You never gave Vickie a chance because she's a bisexual girl who shows interest in a sapphic relationship. Why are the standards so impossible high for lesbian/sapphic relationships? A dude literally has to look at one of the guys or be remotely cute and bam, the fandom comes up with thousands of headcanons.

Lastly, I don't want to see any Stobin or Steve slander. Steve is the first person to celebrate when Robin gets with Vickie, so Stobin is not the problem when it comes to Rovickie. A lot of people complain that Robin's character is all about Steve, and I sincerely think those people probably never had a best friend. Like my bff and I were super inseparable during our teen years, people legitimately thought we were either siblings or dating lmao, like my grandma asked if I was a lesbian because all I did was hang out with girls, esp my bff. If Steve isn't allowed to be happy for Robin's romantic relationships or isn't allowed to give her any advice in that department (and vice versa), are they really bffs? If you're not at least a little bit invested in your friendships with others, how can you even call yourself their friend? Robin caring about Steve, hanging out with Steve, literally wanting to combine with him, is just her having found a person that understands her. It's not making a lesbian character all about a guy (that's particularly the take when it comes to the ronance ship as Steve has history with both characters). I saw some takes that Steve is the only one benefiting from Stobin, as if Robin never gains anything from that relationship. Like Steve makes her comfortable, to a point she told him her biggest secret. He can handle her rants, he drives her around, and he listens to every problem because Robin can be fully herself around him. They are both gossiping and having fun, and most importantly, they understand each other because they share the trauma of being tortured in a Russian bunker like I need you all to get a grip quickly. Robin would hate a lot of you for shitting on Steve because that's her bestie if you like it or not. I'm also all for aro-ace lesbian representation. If you think a character is less gay because they focus on friendships or don't have a desire to date, that's a you problem.

But again, Maya never said Robin shouldn't date. The show simply shouldn't lose sight of the platonic relationships as well.

I also want to add that Stranger Things as a show in general would not suffer so much in both the romantic relationship and the platonic relationship department if they would give us more episodes. The main characters don't have a chance to branch out and meet others because of limited time. So when one of them gets a love interest, it's perceived as rushed because we are on a time crunch (especially if it's for Robin bc people wouldn't throw such a fit if Steve gets a gf last episode). And as I mentioned earlier, people already don't like the huge cast, so it's hard to add new characters with depth. So we are forced to have all the characters cross date/befriend, which also removes conflict in general because we don't have options and the fandom is mostly all about everyone gets along and everything is fine and dandy. Because be for real most of the teen characters in the main cast wouldn't be friends given their drama and history with each other. If we had 20 episodes, everything would be better, I guarantee you.

(In general, I want to say I'm not a fan of most ships in the show or fandom, and I think a lot of them would be better as friends even if I'm skeptical that they would genuinely get along after everything. Especially the teens don't have many strong friendship bonds and could benefit from forming platonic relationships over romantic ones. The only ships I truly respect are Lumax, Byler (if done right), Rovickie, Jancy if they get it together, and Jopper.)

#robin buckley #steve harrington #nancy wheeler #jonathan byers #will byers #vickie stranger things #stobin #platonic stobin #rovickie #rockie #stranger things #maya hawke #sandra says stuff

[rebelsofshield]

I adore Grogu and Din's bond, but I thought they wrapped up the story of him finding the Jedi and reuniting them with Grogu well. I know a lot of people were upset about it but I just hate that I didn't care as much as they did? I know I'll enjoy Din and Grogu's dynamic again but I was okay with moving on from it. Do you think their bond is important to the success and core of the show?

This is hard to answer because I don't think that the show has really been given the chance to establish what its identity is outside of Grogu and Din's connection. Their story has been the key feature of the series since the first episode and I'm not entirely clear on what a show that isn't about this would look like.

Part of the reason why I genuinely liked "The Return of the Mandalorian" in The Book of Boba Fett (despite it completely abandoning its title character) is that it seemed to establish something of a new status quo for Din. He basically gave up his whole life and culture to protect this child and on the other side he's at a loss for what to do. And it certainly doesn't help matters that he now owns a weapon that's an ancestral indicator of power and rightful rule. So it was it was fun to see him attempt to make sense of this and try to establish what a life post-Grogu could be. And frankly, I would have been completely down for watching Din attempt to navigate the complicated world of Mandalorian politics with other factions also jockeying for control. That may still be what we get, but it's not a story that naturally lends itself to the inclusion of Grogu who honestly just feels like he's going to be floating around being Din's cute little sidekick. Which is a bummer because the quiet tension between the two was always part of what made their relationship the core of the series. The strongest arc of the first season is seeing Din decide that Grogu is something that is worth him abandoning his culture for and the best arc of the second season is him coming to terms that he must let Grogu go. I'm not sure what the thrust or challenge to their relationship is now that Grogu just seems to be around for the long run.

And maybe I'm being cynical, but part of me wonders if Grogu's return is a corporate mandate. It's no secret to literally anyone that's walked through a Target or TJ Maxx in the last three years that Grogu is an absolute merchandising titan and not having him be a regular on a Star Wars show likely isn't something that Disney corporate would be comfortable with.

But, maybe I'm wrong. I've been wrong before and while I've been routinely let down by the Favroni side of Star Wars, they do occasionally get things right. So we shall see.

#Star Wars #The Mandalorian #asks #ask box #anons #anonymous #review #reviews #Din Djarin #Grogu

[sunder-the-gold]

I have seen that you read before the dawn a criticism btd gets is its characterization of sun being ooc

Adaptational Jerkass: In the series proper, Sun is often rather carefree and supportive with his worst quality being that he's Innocently Insensitive at times, being described by Blake as very earnest, and even coming to the conclusion that while he had done it to help Blake, his running off on his team made him a horrible leader, leading to him deciding to go to Vacuo with his team to try and improve. Here, Sun is ignorant and dismissive of his team's issues with him, and repeatedly demonstrates Never My Fault over his running off and thinking the team just needs to get over their issues with him. It takes having the issues spelt out to him by Velvet for him to finally realize how shitty he's been to his team. His team-mates believe he's incapable of staying in one place for too long out of fear of growing attachments to either places or people, which pushes his friends away in the process.

Lack of Empathy: Sun is called out on this behavior repeatedly through the story, unable to see why his team is angry with him, or how the group therapy sessions with the rest of the Battle of Beacon survivors helps them. When he does apologize for being rude at a previous session, he immediately ruins it by acting like he was doing them a favor because of how apparently elitist the group looks to outsiders. It's noted that he doesn't really feel bad for Velvet when she is distressed at being separated from Yatsu during the sudden assignment of new teams. His bond with Velvet and Coco makes him realize how his behavior is coming off to others, and he improves as his understanding grows.

I don't know if you've read my post about Sun's character arc across all RWBY media, but I feel it adequately addressed such complaints.

I wonder if these critics have the same criticisms about how Puss In Boots is portrayed in the Shrek movies (where his flaws make him a comedic sidekick) versus how he's portrayed in his own movies (where his flaws nearly destroy his life and those of the people he cares about).

A story naturally puts less focus on a supporting character's flaws than on a main character's, and the supporting character doesn't find themselves tested as hard as a main character.

But if you don't want to read my Cliffnotes version of Sun's character arc and just want something bite-sized, here's some TL;DR.

Adaptational Jerkass: Sun is a Vacuan nomad, and though his travels have given him a better understanding of how foreign city-slickers think, it is not yet a complete understanding. He had no idea that his team might interpret his constant absences as a sign that he hated them. Since Sun is clearly the only Vacuan nomad his teammates have ever met, they had even less insight into Sun's perspective. Therefore, Sun's apology for his extended absence after the Fall of Beacon did little or nothing to resolve the real conflict between him and them, which left Sun confused and frustrated.

Lack of Empathy: You can only be as empathetic as your understanding of someone else's cultural mindset, as well as your own. When he attended the Beacon Brigade meetings, Sun Wukong displayed more self-reflection on the biases of his own culture and understanding for how the members of the Beacon Brigade thought than any other native member of Shade's student body. This goes double for Sun's ability to listen when Velvet and Fox provide the insight he was missing to better understand them, and how quickly he embraced and adapted to that information.

#ask #rwby #sun wokung #before the dawn #unindexed

[musicallisto]

i would like to reiterate that nina zenik and matthias helvar are the only reason i am still sane and capable of human emotion

#i don't think i have yelled enough about them. have i yelled enough about them? #THEIR INDIVIDUAL PERSONALITIES #THEIR CHARACTER GROWTH #MATTHIAS (DEROGATORY) MADE ME GO THROUGH A ROLLERCOASTER OF EMOTIONS IN THE BOOK AND I HAVEN'T RECOVERED. #AND NINA IS TOO POWERFUL AND SO STRONG AND AMAZING. I CAN'T DEAL. #she reminds me so much of me. i don't think i have actually elaborated on why i love nina so much. #she's so unapologetic. loud obnoxious and confident. she's brash funny and flirty. she makes jokes and she's exhausting. #she's everything that i am. or that i at least wish to be. #and oftentimes this type of character is The Best Friend. you know? the one who drags the Plain Main Character to parties and stuff #and doesn't have a life outside of being The Sidekick. doesn't get a character arc or much depth... #and all my life reading ya lit i was convinced that brash girls are the Best Friend and nothing more. #they are the lively counterpart to a timid main character and only ever serve the purpose to be their crutch. and give them cool outfits. #so all my life i thought i was the sidekick in my own life; i was second best in my own skin #but then nina came and the way she was handled - not like a side character here to assist the heroine and disappear #but as a HEROINE herself. as a MAIN character. with flaws and development and a romance subplot #and i just saw so much of myself in her personality and went hey! i can be badass too! i'm not a crutch! to anyone! #also i am kind of confined to this role of the Happy Friend. you know? super hyper and enthusiastic and hilarious. #and i'm not really allowed to be sad. or vulnerable. it's others who count on me for me to cheer them up not the other way around #(and also why i'm absolute shit at expressing affection in a serious heartfelt manner but whatever) #and that sounds more like jesper and i resonate with jesper as well but #nina being a girl + all the random little things about her #(her sweet tooth and appetite; the fact she's v good with languages) #(how she's curvy as well which made me feel better about my body - and im literally skinny so yay beauty standards) #(how she likes blond men AGAINST HER WILL (it's too funny)) #i just love her. that's all #shadow and bone #six of crows #nina zenik #clara tais toi #helnik

[enderwoah]

okay so a game theory on current dream smp lore being written/having the information given by a fan is such a cool idea but could also lead to horrific scenarios.

here's a compilation of the worst cases.

he hires a c!tommy apologist: you cant get more than three minutes of the video without them bringing up the fact that "he was sixteen!" it's never established in the video that tommy was known for committing crimes and being a little goblin child (affectionate). they spin it so he didn't even burn george's house down, he just stole One Singular Inc Sac and tubbo exiled him.

he hires someone who has never watched a bbh/antfrost/puffy/foolish lore stream in their life: the egg plot is said to be irrelevant, to have sprung up out of generally nowhere and interrupted plot, and/or have shallow reasons for the characters to do what they do. you dm the person that gave the information/wrote it on twitter after the video is released. they don't know that bbh and skeppy have lost a canon life. they dont know that foolish is puffy's son. "i thought puffy's son was dream?"

he hires someone who has never watched a ranboo lore stream in their life: "enderwalk is kind of one of ranboo's alters or his other side, it's completely different from him" OR "enderwalk is a violent, evil version of ranboo" OR "enderwalk is still technically ranboo, but far more subject to dream's manipulation Oh Yeah And Dream Is Mind-Controlling him." they mention that enderwalk might kill tubbo or michael.

he hires someone who only watches tommy's point of view: "technoblade betrayed him completely out of nowhere, tubbo abandoned tommy completely, ranboo replaced tubbo but also we love ranboo because of exile and only exile. philza minecraft is so bad, we hate him. wilbur soot is the most manipulative person in this known universe."

he hires someone who came to the lore in season two and hasnt caught up on any streams prior: "lmanburg started as a country only made for people to escape tyranny. also wilbur soot is the most manipulative person ever, he gaslighted and mentally absued tommy in the pogtopia arc (i think???) (was it called pogtopia) (it was pogtopia right) (idk i wasn't there)."

he hires someone who knows nothing (NOTHING) about c!tubbo outside of tommy POV: they say that tubbo is not good at roleplay. they cite his initial reaction to tommy's death as proof. they say that his character is pretty basic and doesn't seem to be affected by the massive amounts of trauma that he should have. they call him tommy's sidekick and seem to imply that he is only an asset for other people's storylines to grow. the like/dislike ratio on the video is 3:74.

he hires a c!dream apologist: the video is about fifteen minutes long. it's just showcasing dream fanart whilst someone narrates over it saying that tommy deserved all the things that came to him because he was annoying and that dream could be excused because he wants the server to just be united and is also hot. the thumbnail for the video is this:

/hyp /lh /t

(image credit)

#ranboo #matpat #tommyinnit #dream smp #tubbo #wilbur soot #technoblade #philza #philza minecraft #badboyhalo #antfrost #captain puffy #skeppy #dreamwastaken #georgenotfound #ranboolive

[elizabethrobertajones]

I've been thinking about "See No Evil" and I realized: if Dean says that in 12x11 when he's losing his memory, it's either at the start of him losing his memory, or it's proof Cas is /really/ important to him. Dean knows Sam is his brother and Mary is his mom by the time he's 3. He meets Cas when he's 30, and doesn't even consider him a friend until at least a year later. So I think it's a big deal Dean still remembers /Cas/ is his /best friend/ when it sounds like he's struggling to remember.

Honestly the worst suggestion I’ve seen is that someone wrote it on a piece of paper for him - like, Sam’s handwriting (not that Dean knows that), just, “Sam - Brother, Mary - Mom, Cas - best friend” and Dean’s repeating that over and over. :D

(knock yourself out)

But yeah, Sam’s in a very much more secure place here than the other two - he’ll be presumably there with Dean, and I’m not sure Mary is in the episode and I have a pretty strong feeling that Cas won’t be… (i haven’t actually checked the spoilers to see where we’re at with this, tbh - I’d like Mary to be in it though…) Anyway Sam definitely gets to be by Dean’s side and it will be horrible to go through Dean forgetting him (as I, someone who’s never had a loved one get dementia, can’t relate to, like, at all, so… not my place anyway because it’s presumably tragedy porn if I get all over-invested in that >.>) but yeah… He’s been around Dean most of his life so if Dean is gradually losing memories, Sam’s still faaairly secure there, in terms of life importance to Dean.

Mary, Dean only needs to lose a couple of months to just lose her entirely for the whole… was it 33 years that she was dead? Even so, she’s rock no.1 for Dean as a memory (as 5x16 or, I guess, 10x23 showed) and that goes back all his life to childhood… However far back you peel Dean, Mary is there. If this is from the memory loss episode, I’d be very curious about how Dean “loses” Mary, because of course she was lost for most of his life anyway. It almost doesn’t hurt him to take away the memory of her being alive, although I would like an episode giving Dean the chance to really FEEL about her coming back which this might do… I have a lot of ideas about how I’d do this episode but I guess we’ll wait and see what airs. :P

But then, Cas, as you say, is such a relative latecomer to Dean’s psyche and it seems someone who still needs a lot of proving about if he belongs there from Cas’s POV and in a meta way where some people question it as well… it’s honestly so revolutionary to have Cas listed alongside these other 2 characters who are Dean’s core family. And you COULD strip Cas out of Dean’s memories fairly easily, because he’s only proportionately been around for a quarter of Dean’s life… occasionally turned his life upside down with the efficiency of a hurricane, but yeah. It’s tenuous and strange at times. Cas still isn’t entirely sure he belongs, and Dean’s been through plenty of weird spells about having Cas around, or dealing with Cas leaving, that they’ve rarely seemed settled or allowed to have that BFF experience even if it’s obvious to outsiders they’re the definition of the “best friends each secretly think of each other as the sidekick” meme along with a bunch of unresolved romantic tension to spice things up. They’ve spent so much time not together or not allowing themselves to be together, there’s big gaps in the historical record anyway before we start taking chunks out of Dean’s memory…

Anyway I’m a huge sucker for the trope where people don’t remember each other but they just sort of KNOW anyway. Like, Dean not really sure he remembers Cas any more but he just KNOWS Cas is important. And that Cas is Cas, not “Castiel” and that that distinction is important to him. That there’s a feeling behind using that name and knowing how it defines his friend (how HE defines him)… 

When it comes to Cas, even though I’m assuming he won’t be in this episode, IF this line IS from this episode it would hopefully do a lot for Cas’s arc this season anyway - that feeling of not belonging. He might not see it for himself, but we ALL know that burden of belonging or not is on Dean. Like, when Cas was in the Bunker after being cursed, it was Sam who lent Cas his room & netflix account, and who seemed to be keeping tabs on him, and Dean, though he has by far the more complicated and in depth relationship with Cas, who seemed to be keeping at arm’s length from him, like this scenario would somehow come back to bite Dean, and that being around Cas was weird and painful for him after all the drama before that… Too much unsaid stuff and things they still need to talk about. Too much fear of Cas leaving, or Dean kicking Cas out, depending whose eyes you’re looking through. 

I mean, the line is gold regardless, to have Dean name Cas among his nearest and dearest (and with such a painful tragic emphasis on Cas… Argh :P) but if it’s from this episode and deals with Dean struggling with remembering Cas… The potential for giving us in plain writing how much Dean wants Cas to belong with them, how much he considers him family… It is SORT of wrestling a confession out of him, but I’d guess in much lower stakes than something like the crypt scene, anyway. If this is what comes out of exploring the depths of what’s going on in Dean by taking away the barriers and focusing on what’s happening in his brain… I guess for US it can tell us a lot about how much Cas means to him, making it that much easier for any next steps of letting CAS know this… 

I can dream :’)

#Asks #season 12 speculation #season 12 spoilers #12x11 #this episode has me speculating and that always makes me itch :P #Destiel