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onceuponapuffin · 19 days

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Ineffable Bureaucracy and Ineffable Husbands

So, especially in the early days after the release of S2, I saw and heard a lot of people comparing these two as if they were the same. There were fan comics and fanart and fanfiction that included dialogue that was something along the lines of "why are they so healthy after only a few years and we aren't?" or "why do THEY get a happy ending and we don't?" And I mean, I haven't seen any of that in a while so maybe people have come to this conclusion on their own, but just in case, I wanted to point out

That they are fundamentally different. They are not the same.

And the reason why comes down to this conversation from 2x3:

So, hold this conversation in your brain while we go through this.

First of all, we have our Ineffable Bureaucracy, Gabriel and Beelzebub.

So these are the ones who, figuratively speaking, were born in a castle.

Gabriel was the Supreme Archangel for however many millenia, and Beelzebub was the Grand Duke of Hell for the same, roughly speaking. They are equals in positions of power.

So, when they fall in love, you have two supernatural authorities who have lived their existences believing that they can reasonably expect to have and keep whatever they want. After all, that's exactly what their lives have been (with the one exception being Beelzebub's Fall) - they want something, they get it, they keep it, and no one tells them no.

The biggest risk is to Gabriel. If Heaven were to find out, he would Fall. I can imagine Beelzebub being a bit concerned, but "Oh no," Gabriel probably figured "I Fall to Hell, and straight into your arms!" And I could see Beelzebub with a little smirk saying "I'd look after you, babe," in response.

The only time Gabriel actually worries is when he finds out that there's another punishment that he didn't realize was a possibility.

Falling to Hell is one thing, but having his memories erased is an actual threat, and possibly the first time he's ever been told no. This is when we see him panic, and leave Heaven in a mess, storing his memories away to keep them safe from the Metatron. We find out later that he was on his way to Hell anyway and just forgot halfway there and got lost.

And so, we have two beings who were always told they were Good Enough, who approached each other knowing they were able to have whatever they wanted, and were therefore able to communicate and fall in love in a healthy way. They didn't need to tip toe or hide, because they had no reason to believe anyone would ever tell them no until someone did. Their risk, because of their positions of authority, wasn't nearly as great as Aziraphale and Crowley's risk.

So now we come to our Precious Ineffable Husbands

Crowley and Aziraphale start off in much lower positions on the Celestial Food Chain. We know that they have to be very careful about their relationship to avoid the repercussions. They can't mention The Arrangement out loud, they can't put their feelings for each other into words. It has been made clear to them that they are always being watched, and anything they have can be taken away from them on a whim.

So how can they communicate safely when they've spent millenia living on eggshells and tightropes? Of course they won't, and of course it's going to be much harder for them to believe they can once they finally are safe. I definitely believe that they will get there (for my own wellbeing I have to believe that their love is stronger than anything), but they will need to fight tooth and nail in a way that Gabriel and Beelzebub didn't. All because they aren't figures of authority.

It might honestly be another good argument for Crowley taking the Grand Duke of Hell job (even though I reeeeaaaally don't want him to). It would put them in the same position as Gabriel and Beelzebub, and might give them the footing to actually escape the system (even though I think it's more likely that they're going to dismantle and/or repair the system in s3, but that's my own opinion).

These two pairs aren't mirrors of each other. Rather, they illustrate the problems with inequity that Crowley was pointing out in Edinburgh. And if S2 showed us that, I'm hoping S3 will show us possible solutions for it.

#good omens #crowley #aziraphale #ineffable husbands #aziracrow #good omens 2 #good omens fandom #aziraphale x crowley #aziracrow lasts forever #gabriel #archangel gabriel #beelzebub #ineffable bureaucracy #good omens meta #good omens 2 meta #good omens analysis #ineffable fandom #this show is my roman empire #good omens thoughts

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doubleca5t · 2 years

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Bored tumblr radfem here to take the bait- What kind of gender feelings were you having? Magical ineffable girly feelings about wanting to wear spinny dresses and play with dolls? You know what gender feelings I was having as a young woman- Feeling afraid of the men sexually assaulting me. Wanting to be seen as a whole human being with interests and ambitions. Alienation as a gnc lesbian which made me want to chop my tits off. Those are the gender feelings I had. Very curious to hear about yours

Ok to answer your question, the gender feelings I was getting from since I was a little kid were along the lines of:

"I wish I could have been born a girl, I don't really like being a boy that much"

"women's clothes are so much better than than men's clothes, I wish I was a girl so I could wear them"

"My female friends kind of act like I'm 'one of the girls' but my male friends never treat me like I'm 'one of the guys'. I like this arrangement. I don't want to fit in with the boys."

"I wish my face was more androgynous and I wasn't as tall, that way I could dress up as a girl and everyone would be totally convinced"

"I can't stand romance stories. Unless it's a romance between two girls. Those rule. Really wish there were more of them 😔"

"I love women but I don't really relate to how cishet men talk about women. For some reason I *really* relate to how lesbians and bisexual women talk about women though."

I think you get the idea.

With that out of the way, there's kind of a second question underlying your initial question which is "what the fuck do you think is so fun about being a woman? being a woman is fucking terrible." And I think that question is worth answering as well since it's probably something a lot of people are legitimately curious about.

The short answer is that, in my experience, "womanhood" as a concept is broad and varried enough that different people are going to get different things out of it, and while all women are oppressed and traumatized by patriarchy, the way they process that trauma is VERY far from uniform.

I know lots of cis women who've been through similar things to what this anon has described, but they haven't come out of it with nearly the same perspective. They recognize that just because *they* can never be comfortable with the role that society prescribed to them, that doesn't mean that no one else can or should be comfortable with that role. They recognize that you can take joy in the aesthetics and performance of a lot of things that are stereotypically feminine while still asserting your value as a person and refusing to put up with patriarchal bullshit. And perhaps most importantly, they recognize that the notion that someone can choose their gender is not contradictory to the idea that people should not be forced into a rigidly defined gender role. There are a lot of trans men who want to look like femboys or dress like flamboyant glam-rockers. There are a lot of trans women who don't give a shit about fashion or makeup and just want to be comfortable, or aspire to look like a capital d Dyke.

And like.... Idk isn't there something freeing about that? The idea that you can be whatever gender you want in whatever way you want, patriarchy be damned. That seems like the kind of world I want to live in.

So yeah anon, I understand why you view womanhood the way you do. For someone with your experiences, it makes a lot of sense. But I don't think your perspective has to be mutually exclusive to mine. I want to live in a world where women aren't forced to present a certain way from birth, don't live in constant fear of abuse and assault by men, and aren't belittled and marginalized at every turn. I just happen to also think that the idea of biologically determined gender is just as much bullshit as the idea of systemically enforced gender roles.

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tallerthantale · 4 months

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What Does Aziraphale Actually Believe, Part 3: The Case for Ineffability

This is a series of my takes on what Aziraphale believes through the timeline of the show. It is all my personal interpretation, and I am happy to hear others. You don’t need to read them all in order, but know that I am coming from a perspective on Aziraphale’s machinations that can be difficult for people without a psychology background to follow without the first two as a primer. The quick version is that Aziraphale has a set of beliefs that exist in some form or another within his mind. However, at any given moment, only some of them exist ‘with awareness’ or as I am putting it here, conscious!Aziraphale only has access to the beliefs that the rest of his mind, veil!Aziraphale, allows him to know about. The context of the moment will determine what lives on the surface and what stays buried behind the veil, whatever arrangement best prevents a threat to Aziraphale’s sense of self and makes whatever he is inclined to do feel right.

In this post I will be mostly focusing on ineffability; its origins, its associations, and its utility. For all that we call them the ineffable husbands, I have myself and will continue to do so, ineffability belongs to Aziraphale. Crowley scoffed at Aziraphale for it for 6000 years, up until Aziraphale used it to land the final blow ending Armageddidn't. It has value, and Aziraphale brings that value to the table in his discourse with Crowley. About 3.2k words. I meant for it to be shorter, I got carried away.

Religion Without Words

At Eden, Aziraphale has probably spent some time considering Crowley's fall. Realistically I think the reason Crowley is hearing the ineffable argument for the first time at Eden is that the exposition needed to be present as Aziraphale - Crowley dialogue from the start of S1E1 for narrative reasons. However, I like taking on the headcanon that Aziraphale developed his opinions on God's ineffability as a result of Crowley's fall, as a way to try to reconcile his negative feelings about something God had done.

Aziraphale has concluded that the reason he struggles to reconcile a terrible thing happening to someone he cared for at the hands of a nominally benevolent God, is that it's all part of a grand plan he isn't supposed to be able to understand. I have never been a Christian, but from the outside this sure does look like a typical Christian rationalisation, and I believe it mostly is one. @takeme-totheworld has a lot of insightful things to say about the Christian perspective that I’d recommend reading. However, there is one bit when Aziraphale describes ineffability that stands out to me as noticeably something else.

If you are in deep in the fandom, you have probably encountered at least one of the times David Tennant has described Crowley and Aziraphale as the yin to each other’s yang. Yinyangs originated an element of ancient Chinese philosophy, and are currently a component of many different belief systems across East Asia, most prominently Confucism. However, when they get brought up by westerners, (myself included, hi, I’m the problem it’s me) it’s usually in the context of their role in Daoism.

A line from God’s narration (an the book) that sets up the thesis of the story is very Daoist coded: "most of the great triumphs and tragedies of history are caused, not by people being fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, but by people being fundamentally people." This line, David’s description of their relationship, and the multiple shots in the show of the pair that are deliberately evocative of a yinyang symbol, give me the impression that the Good Omens team is deliberately working Daoist perspective into the story. The most telling bit though, is Aziraphale's description of ineffability.

Aziraphale describes God's plan as being ineffable, because "It is incapable of being put into words." Not ‘shouldn't be put into words,’ INCAPABLE of being put into words. This sounds to me like a reference to "The way that can be spoken is not the constant way," a common translation of the most iconic line of the Daodejing, understood to mean you can't describe Daoism (or the universe according to Daoism) with words. This may seem like a reach, I assure you it is not. Daoism unambiguously holds the creative commons copyright on ‘religion that is incapable of being put into words.’ It’s the only thing about Daoism that isn’t ambiguous.

However, as Aziraphale describes it, it's mixed in with the more Christian "It's not for us to understand." Daoist ineffability is about a non-sentient collection of principles of the universe that can't be communicated in words, because it just doesn't work. Christian ineffability is the supreme will of an all powerful entity that won't be communicated in words, because it’s a test of faith. The Christian approach is often to fall back onto the institutional hierarchy and do what you are told. Aziraphale looks on the surface to be following the Christian approach, but in a lot of ways he is actually taking a more Daoist approach, and that is what he will use to separate himself from the institution of heaven, without separating himself from God.

Would You Prefer an Unorganized Religion?

(This was a sarcastic sign on a church near my undergrad college many years ago, in response to a local backlash against organised religion. I found this incredibly funny, because my answer was and is an unironic, enthusiastic, YES.)

I think that for people used to organised religion with hierarchical religious authorities and formal institutions, who have experienced religion as a form of social control, it can be counter intuitive to consider the idea of a spirituality / religion that doesn't operate like that. This isn't to say that there aren't branches of Daoism that have set up structured institutional authority, but from my perspective it makes about as much sense as Prosperity Gospel Christians and Supply-Side Jesus. In any case, the anti-hierarchical flavour of Daoism is the one showing up in the subtext and it's the version that I am familiar with, so that's what I'm going to talk about.

In this world view, the full acceptance of the inability to put spirituality into words or communicate it to others doesn't function as a way to keep people in their place, it functions as the exact opposite. I can’t express the Meaning of Life in words, and neither can you. I can’t tell people how to live in accordance with The Way, AND NEITHER CAN YOU. You are literally the pope? I don’t care, you still can’t. So how does an anti-athoritarian Daoist decide how to live their life? How do you resolve it being impossible for anyone to tell you what the Daoist thing to do is? Look, if I could tell you, it wouldn’t be Daoism. The closest I can get is that it involves putting a lot of work into being at peace with yourself as you are, and being true to yourself as you are when at peace. The interaction is vitally important. Being genuinely at peace with yourself, flaws and all, gets the background mechanisms of your mind to be a lot more relaxed about allowing you to perceive clearly, and that gives you more breathing room for whimsy. Putting faith in your intuition where you aren’t at peace with yourself can fuck your shit up harder than a sideways pinapple.

Just an Angel That Likes Food

Aziraphale runs on intuition, and when he is still wrestling with his hidden conflicts behind the veil, he gets messy. When it’s about something he has made his peace with, he does rather well. Once Aziraphale realises he likes food, he doesn’t waste time agonising over it. He’s just an angel that likes food. At first he is appalled by the wine, but not after he’s tried it. Now he’s just an angel that likes wine. And cocktails with little frufru umbrellas. And music. He will go on about keeping up appearances to avoid scrutiny from Gabriel, but I really don’t think Aziraphale has any internal qualms about what it says about his existence that he likes food, tea, hot chocolate, alcohol, and music. He just likes them. He just is.*

At some point between Before the Beginning and the modern era, Aziraphale has developed the capacity to fully stop respecting what the institution of heaven says, because ineffability means no angel, archangel, Metatron, contract, permit, office, or institution can speak for God. Consider Season 1 Aziraphale having no time for The Metatron’s title; “You are the voice of God like the presidential spokesperson is the voice of the president. I actually need to speak to God.” The great plan is a bunch of words, and God plays games, so it isn’t necessarily the ineffable plan. Right after the discorporation, the angel general orders Aziraphale to prepare for war, and he's just like… nope. Bye. He prevents the war by calling Gabriel out to his face for assuming God's intentions, and Crowley only joins in after he is shocked that it worked.

Where modern Aziraphale most readily loses his internal peace is when there is a question of him being personally out of step with God, and with the hypothetical of what God would want an idealised heaven to be. Only God Herself, in all her ineffable glory, who’s will cannot be communicated in words by definition, who’s playing games with rules She won’t tell you. But then he can't ever know if he really is out of step with God? EXACTLY. If he intuitively feels like he is aligned with God, nothing the universe throws at him from the outside can ever be evidence to the contrary.

Isn't he just as bad as Gabriel then? Arguably he's worse. Gabriel admitted to himself that he didn't know God's will when called out about it. However, at least the things that intuitively feel right to Aziraphale tend not to be eradicating all life and destroying the universe, so there's that.

On an Overabundance of Optional Opinions

The solid wall modern Aziraphale has up to defend his sense of his relationship to God took time to build, and it started at Eden. As Aziraphale introduces the ineffability Concept to Crowley, the tool is still in development as far as separating himself from the institution of heaven. The scene introduces a lot of Aziraphale’s contradictory optional opinions.

He can stand by his decision to give away the flaming sword.

He can believe it's possible it was 'the wrong thing' or 'a bad thing.'

He can believe angel’s can’t do the wrong thing by definition.

He can believe Crowey is a demon now.

He can believe he has a responsibility to never do the 'wrong thing.'

He can believe what constitutes the 'wrong thing' is determined by God's will.

He can believe he is obligated as an angel to enact God’s will.

He can believe he cannot be told what God's will is.

He can believe he isn't supposed to understand God’s will.

That is a pretty messy pile of things to believe in the span of a few minutes. Some of this mess is resolved by Aziraphale simply not having contradictory beliefs in his awareness at the same time. Some of it is resolved by him finding squigly ways for the beliefs to not necessarily contradict each other exactly.

As I got into above, Aziraphale runs on intuition, that lets him have a sense of what feels right, and that gives him motivation to act without instructions. Belief follows action. He gives away the sword because it felt like the right thing to do, and now he has his reasons for that and he is invested in standing by them. Now he is worried that action could have been ‘the wrong thing’ which he is treating as a term of art for the policy position of the institution of heaven.

Aziraphale can now separate what he personally prefers from what the institution of heaven classifies as right. He prefers the universe in which he gives Adam the sword. The institution of heaven may disagree, and that would mean that Aziraphale giving Adam the sword was 'bad', but Aziraphale will still prefer the universe in which he gives Adam the sword, and can argue the point. The pro giving the sword away argument is earnest, but it also feels very defensive. If it was 'wrong,' what he prefers is wrong, and that would be 'bad' and he isn't allowed to be 'bad', he is an angel. This is a threat to his sense of self. He is panicking, and is becoming willing to grasp at straws.

In seeking reassurance, Aziraphale earnestly appreciates it when Crowley says 'you're an angel, I don't think you can do the wrong thing.' Taking that at face value is WILD, given that it is a statement made by someone who was an angel, and now isn't, because he was punished for what he did while he was an angel. While there are questions about the details of how and when turning into a demon happens that we will get to later, I think Airaphale’s current understanding of the demeaning process would include: angel commits a fall worthy act, then becomes a demon. This is how he thinks it works at the start of Uz. So as we would assume Aziraphale sees it, Crowley was an angel, did something that was ‘the wrong thing,’ and then became a demon. You would think that this would imply that it is possible for an angel to do the wrong thing.

Aziraphale’s mind has options. Either an angel definitionally can't do the wrong thing, or demons exist because angels can fall after doing the wrong thing. As long as they aren’t both in conscious!Aziraphale’s awareness at the same time, it works out. For this part of the conversation, the notion that an angel can do the wrong thing and fall for it is staying out of his conscious awareness. That lets him grab onto reassurance that he did the right thing by definition. Keeping things behind the veil is fairly normal behaviour for a mind, and if this was Aziraphale talking to another angel it would hardly be noteworthy. The wild part is managing to not have the concept of ‘demons exist because angels can fall’ in your awareness while in the midst of a conversation with a demon who fell so recently you needed to ask them what their new demon name was less than a minute ago. The incentive to believe that as an angel, he can’t do the wrong thing was very powerful. But it wasn’t enough to eliminate his doubt, guilt and shame, particularly after Adam kills the lion. That doesn’t feel right to Aziraphale, even after all his concerns about vicious animals.

An Ineffable Back Door

The real power play is ineffability. The seeds are there for Aziraphale to realise the institution doesn’t represent God if NO ONE can know God’s will, but he hasn’t fully put that together yet. “It’s not for us to understand,” is still him putting himself in his place, or it might have come out ‘it’s not for anyone to understand.’ But there is a crack in the cage destined to become an exit. Aziraphale has started thinking for himself in a way that the other angels don't, and he has come up with ways to rationalise his individual agency. He has his own opinions, and while he has trauma responses when it seems like he might get in trouble, or that a certain opinion isn't acceptable, he will act on his own where there aren't any guidelines. For now, he still tows the company line when he is given orders.

At the Flood, Aziraphale is trying to be ok with what God ostensibly decided, but he's clearly put off by it. It doesn’t feel right, but neither does disagreeing with God. He tries to focus on the positive. The rainbow will be a promise to not drown everyone again! She's just wiping out the locals... not all of them... What I want to focus on though, is that Crowley asks about the sword. Aziraphale says God didn't mention it again, Crowley says that's probably for the best. I think Aziraphale is being a bit dishonest with Crowley as God did mention it at the wall, but I think there is a degree of honesty in the fact that he doesn't seem to have been punished or reprimanded by God for it in any way. Both at Eden and at The Flood Crowley has revealed that he believes God would consider giving the sword away to have been the wrong thing. I think it's a reasonably safe headcanon that the other angels would have a similar opinion. But Aziraphale faced no consequences from God for it. I doubt Aziraphale believes he lied to God successfully. I would argue Aziraphale thinks God either approved of or was pretty indifferent to the whole sword business, and everyone else figured it wrong. However, we don't have evidence for Aziraphale thinking that way until Job, and that’s where we’re headed next.

Post 3/10

End Note 1: On Aziraphale lying to God.

Aziraphale often tells obviously pointless lies as a shame response. Consider the travel sweet, claiming to have never heard of Gabriel, ‘I don’t even like you’, ‘we don’t know each other’. As such, I don’t take his lies to God at Eden to mean he doesn’t believe in God’s omniscience. It could be that he typically believes God is omniscient, and that got stuck behind the veil in a panic, but I honestly read it more as a compulsive behaviour that’s not even engaging with the question of if his lies are believable.

End Note 2: On Aziraphale’s Character Arc.

I see Aziraphale’s journey as a very Daoist coded one, and there is good reason to set it up that way. Good Omens is largely about deconstructing black and white thinking and black and white morality. Crowley represents someone assigned into the category of being evil, behaving in a way that undermines our understanding of the concept, which lets us understand him as not actually evil, and we want him to not actually be evil. We love him for it, it’s a great story. It is also a much easier narrative to process than the mirrored version in Aziraphale, which requires us to want him to grow as a person towards a goal that isn’t being good. Now, obviously a huge chunk of what’s happening is that heaven doesn’t represent actual good, they represent fake good. The thing is, they represent fake good because the concept of good and evil is inherently flawed to begin with ON BOTH ENDS, that’s what the Good Omens narrative is pointing out.

We understand Aziraphale’s mistake at the end of Season 2 comes from him trying to fix the system instead of trying to dismantle it. I agree. His mistake was that he looked at fake idealised good, and wanted to make it real idealised good, instead of processing that there is no such thing. Crowley’s character arc deconstructs the concept of evil, Aziraphale’s character arc deconstructs the concept of good. Daoism may be the most known religion / spirituality that purposefully doesn’t push towards an idealised ‘good’. It’s not just a presumption that it isn’t realistically attainable, it straight up isn’t the objective. The goal is just to be.

#good omens #good omens meta #go meta #ineffable husbands #aziracrow #aziraphale #what does aziraphale actually believe

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drconstellation · 6 months

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A Dash of Nutmeg

I'm in the middle of preparing my next meta, and while mulling over a problem a had a wtf! moment. More like a "lead balloon" moment, really, where you realize you're looking at one of those glaring anachronisms that the Good Omens AU has plenty of but never makes a big deal of.

Nutmeg. And lemongrass. You know, they get mentioned together in this little passage in the book:

"Come off it. Your lot get ineffable mercy," said Crowley sourly. "Yes? Did you ever visit Gomorrah?" "Sure," said the demon. "There was this great little tavern where you could get these terrific fermented date-palm cocktails with nutmeg and crushed lemongrass-" "I meant afterwards." "Oh."

Nutmeg then turns up in the S2 as part of Aziraphale's magic sleight of hand performance.

The reason it jumped out to me is that nutmeg has played a significant role in the history of the world - it was the center of deal between two countries that you could say became a "sliding door" moment about 500 years ago. And because of that, I knew its origin put it at unlikely odds of being in the right place at the right time in the GO story (but when has that ever stopped anything getting in the way of the story!)

Although we don't know if Sodom and Gomorrah were actually real cities, we know they are supposed to predate the Roman Empire, and that is what matters here. And the matter I'm trying to get to is that the natural origins of nutmeg are from small cluster of islands in the Indonesian archipelago that were a closely guarded secret for centuries. The first nutmeg reached Rome in the first century AD, long after Sodom and Gomorrah would have been razed to oblivion by Sandalphon's smiting efforts. And there was never very much of it. It was always in short supply, and considered precious.

Oh, and its a well known hallucinogenic, if you consume too much of it. Even just a generous amount sprinkled on your Christmas pud can give you a lovely relaxed, floaty feeling...mmmm, or was Aunty Jill a bit heavy-handed with the brandy, I'm not sure...

Lemongrass is also of south-east Asian origin. It likes a hot, damp environment to grow well. I'm not sure that's the kind of place Sodom or Gomorrah was!

So for Crowley to describe a cocktail, of all things, with two exotic, rare ingredients from thousands of miles away in a "time" when the trade routes hadn't quite spread that far...

ugh. My head hurts just thinking about this one.

Did I mention I found a thing that many cultures believed nutmeg could protect you against evil? Right, right...whatever. Go for it, Crowley. You've obviously been into the mind-altering chemicals for millennia anyway.

#good omens #good omens 2 #aziraphale #crowley #nutmeg #lemongrass #a dash of nutmeg #sodom and gomorrah #caffiene #even salt and sugar are mind altering chemicals #alcohol #extraordinary amounts of alcohol

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stupidphototricks · 2 months

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I'm still thinking about the Good Omens book, and I don't know if anyone needs to hear this but if you're a fan of the show who hasn't read the book, I mean. Stop whatever you're doing and rEAD THE BOOK. I SAID NOW DON'T MAKE ME COME OVER THERE.

(...I understand that not everyone is able to read physical books. As you probably know, there's a full cast audiobook which is superb and features many of the same actors who starred in the show, including Michael Sheen and David Tennant, so that's a great alternative if necessary. However, in my experience nothing compares to reading the printed book, if at all possible.)

True, you might be disappointed to find a lot of your favorite Crowley/Aziraphale interactions missing from the book. Many of those were added for the show, with good reason: they work better in a visual format, and particularly with those actors! But what the book may lack in Ineffable Husbands, it makes up for by going into more detail about many of the other characters, and maybe clearing up some plot points that you didn't even realize you were a bit confused about. Some things are easier to understand in the book, I think.

More importantly, there's so much in the book that couldn't be translated to the screen. Not just scenes/characters/plot (although, those too) but: It makes a difference how the text looks on the page. Where the paragraph breaks happen. Which words are italicized, or in all caps. How some words are intentionally misspelled. Punctuation! Then there are the unexpected turns of phrase, funnier seen than heard. The rhythm of the words: sometimes ambling, sometimes trotting, sometimes speeding out of control and crashing into a wall.

It might seem fairly unassuming, a bit of humorous satire, but make no mistake. This book was very finely crafted.

In conclusion (thank you for coming to my TED Talk etc.) read Good Omens if you haven't already. It is so incredibly worth it.

#good omens #good omens book #neil gaiman #terry pratchett #terry pratchett gnu #also the footnotes are works of art #read it

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ranna-alga · 8 months

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I am not seeing enough people talking about the Second Coming for s3, so let's do that now.

I feel like not enough people are talking about the Second Coming, maybe because we are still heartbroken about the Ineffable Divorce (which happened just before the SC's mention), or that we don't know too much of the Second Coming besides Jesus returning to Earth, or both. And I don't mean this in a rude way because I was the exact same until a couple weeks ago; I studied Ethics and Beliefs for five years (first two years were mandatory, the next three were part of my GCSEs) yet somehow I was never actually taught about the Second Coming, oddly enough. So I did some research a while back and MAN I have a lot to say.

(Also, please feel free to correct me if I say anything incorrect or otherwise, I'm not a professional! Also if I missed something Good-Omens related.)

I think it's safe to assume that the most well-known part of the Second Coming is Jesus retuning to Earth. But so much happens before this (the Rapture and the Tribulation) that I'm unsure if they will be part of "the plan" the Metatron has for Aziraphale (especially considering that these events aren't part of the SC itself, just barely connected and occuring prior to it) but I more so want to talk about the later parts, particularly after the Tribulation (a seven-year-long period of ultimate human suffering where I believe the Anti-Christ is at its center, representing Satan... Remember this after the following paragraph.)

The end of the Tribulation is where the Second Coming officially starts. Jesus will return from Heaven to claim the Earth as His Messianic Kingdom, which will last for a thousand years. Meanwhile, Satan will be bound for ALSO a thousand years.

More happens after this but remember when I mentioned the Anti-Christ just earlier? Well, before the binding of Satan, the Anti-Christ will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Like I said, more happens afterwards but think with me for a sec...

If everything I said does indeed happen in s3, does this mean that Adam will not only return, but will be in absolute shit again like in Armageddon, but maybe worse because this time he will be literally destroyed??

I do lowkey believe Adam will return for this reason (it would be a treat to see the other characters of s1 return, but more so Adam for the sake of my theory here). From what I know, despite denouncing Satan as his father, Adam is still the Anti-Christ as we see him with the same power as he had earlier on in his final scene on s1e6 (I believe it was him burning a bush that Dog runs through??) Imagine him returning in s3 (which I assume will not have a 4-year time jump like season 1 - 2 and will take place not too long after the ending events of s2e6) - he will be a teenager now and will probably have to be involved with Crowley and Aziraphale again when the last time he met them was during literal Armageddon and he didn’t even know these two gay Demonic and Angelic fucks were his Godfathers.

Whatever happens, season 3 is going to be a FUCKING ROLLERCOASTER and I absolutely cannot be more excited for it.

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aziraphales-library · 1 year

Note

Oh glorious mods and esteemed readers, any recs for fics in which our fav man-shaped beings have to really negotiate how to have a relationship? Human aus welcomed.

Like, who buys flowers? Someone has to do thing with the government to be listed as married, no? If they have sex someone has to start the 'in what way' talk, etc.

I'm basically looking for the pure queer experience of there are no rules, just what we want. Mild, reasonable angst as they figure it out is loved as who doesn't want to see people struggle a bit and succeed.

Hope wherever you are you've had a good beverage recently. :3

So this is apparently one of my favourite types of fic, because I have a lot for you. Cue developing relationships and communication...

On Metaphorical Butterflies by cyankelpie (G)

Did Crowley love Aziraphale? With all his shriveled, black heart. Would he follow Aziraphale to the end of the world? He’d already done that, and he’d do it again in a heartbeat. Was he in love with Aziraphale?

It would probably help if he understood what that meant.

It’s Nice to Have a Friend by AnonymousDandelion (G)

As many human acts and emotions as he’d adopted over the centuries, certain things still held no appeal for Aziraphale. Romance was one of those things.

Perhaps it came of being an ethereal entity, an extension of the way that physically engaging in carnal activities never seemed worth the effort; perhaps it was merely because he was himself, just as some humans felt no desire for such activities. He’d never been completely sure of the reason, or if there was a reason. Either way, it didn’t really make a difference.

But as Aziraphale reclined on his friend’s lap one day, feeling tender, careful fingers combing through his curls as he slowly turned pages in his current novel — another tale, like so many, driven in large part by a romantic subplot — a new worry took hold.

~ ~ ~

A tale of softness, communication, and queerplatonic love.

An Ineffable Feeling by IneffableDoll (T)

“What’s the difference between romantic and platonic, anyway?” Crowley asked suddenly. Aziraphale blinked at him over his glass. “Romantic and platonic what?” “Relationships, angel. Relationships.” “Ah, yes, those old chestnuts,” Aziraphale said, nodding.

***

Aziraphale and Crowley discuss the differences between platonic and romantic relationships, and then it gets a liiiiittle more personal than they expected, and your author is very very ace about it all.

Everybody Loves A Little Different by teatales (T)

Armagedidn't helps Aziraphale come to a realisation. Crowley does his best to be brave.

AKA Aromantic!Crowley because obviously.

hot toddy by blackeyedblonde (E)

Crowley gapes at him. “Dates,” he says, unable to restrain himself. “Is that what we really go on now, you and I? Dates?”

Aziraphale’s expression splinters apart just a little at the edges. “Whatever else would we be inclined to call them?”

They watch each other in the dimly lit sitting room. There’s not even the ticking of a clock to break into the silence, and Crowley’s partway afraid that if he listened hard enough he could hear the ancient beat of both their immortal hearts.

“You kissed me,” he croaks, slumped there, swallowing thickly before he can find a reason to make himself stop. “The other day, when I dropped you off at the shop. You leaned in, and you, you just, planted one on me, like it wasn’t anything—out of the blazing ordinary at all.”

Aziraphale’s hand comes up to faintly brace around his own chin. “Did I upset you when I did?” he asks, sounding slightly stricken.

Their eyes meet for a flash, and Crowley quickly looks away, at the prettily twinkling lights on his formerly derelict mantle. “No,” he says. “No. I didn’t say that."

From Almost to Always by fractalgeometry (T)

They stopped Armageddon. They survived their trials. They were, Crowley was pretty sure, as close to free as they would ever get.

And yet nothing seemed to change.

After Armageddon, Aziraphale and Crowley can objectively do anything they want. It turns out to be harder than that. How do you change centuries of habit built to protect you and the one you love most? The answer it seems, is “slowly and cautiously”.

Five Times They Weren't Very Sexy and One Time They Aced It by ZehWulf (E)

“Have you ever wondered what it feels like?” Crowley asks while contemplating the dregs at the bottom of his wine glass. He’s aiming for philosophical but fears the faint wheeze at the end of the question might have given him away.

“Have I ever wondered what ‘what’ feels like,” Aziraphale asks finally.

“Sex,” he says, much louder than intended or reasonable. They both wince.

“Oh, have you never…?” Aziraphale asks with polite disbelief.

“You have?” Crowley demands.

Look, when you're largely inexperienced sex-favorable asexual ineffables, it takes a bit of practice, a lot of communication, and some bull-headed persistence to get your sex life in commendable working order. Or, five times things got (hilariously) awkward during sex, and one time after they've got it mostly figured out. A companion fic to "Scratching That Itch." (Sex acts, such as they are, tagged per chapter in chapter notes!)

Effortless Intimacy by Quefish (M)

Aziraphale and Crowley, learning each other. There is more to intimacy than sex, thank Somebody.

- Mod D

#good omens #ineffable husbands #developing relationship #communication #asexual #aromantic #queerplatonic #non-sexual intimacy #mod d

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somegoodomens · 8 months

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What I find interesting about this scene is how, for a moment, Crowley puts Aziraphale in a position where he has to play at being God. He creates a scenario where Aziraphale is responsible of a decision that could save the world and humanity, which is what both are attempting to do here. Kill the Antichrist, and it's over. The result is what they both want, so it all comes to if the means are justified to achieve the end. And Aziraphale decides that no, he couldn't do it, not even when Crowley insists "Not even to save everything?" And no, for Aziraphale not even then could it be something he would do. Why? Because it's wrong, it's bad, and it's must certainly not what an angel would do.

But then again, it is what God does.

In the scene of the arc of Noah, we see how Aziraphale is clearly troubled with God wiping out the entire human race (well, just the locals) as punishment and then offer a rainbow as a promise to not do it again. Aziraphale knows this is a bad thing to do, a horrible thing in fact, that goes against creation itself, but this conviction battles with his sense of obedience and duty and who are the good guys and who the bad.

In fact, when Crowley says "Not the kids. You can't kill the kids. That's something my lot would do", Aziraphale says they can't judge God because their plan is ineffable, just as he said in the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve were casted out. Aziraphale does question God's decisions, but shields himself from that doubt behind the word "ineffable" because if it can't be put into words to be understood, then maybe there's a part of it, a good part, that Aziraphale can't understand either. Of course, sometimes that's not enough to keep him calm, as we see when he gives away his flaming sword, interfering with the Great Plan even when he's said not to even speculate about it, let alone question it.

Killing Adam Young in order to save the rest of humanity is a clear parallel (in my opinion) to Jesus dying on the cross to save the human race. God sent their son to die on that cross so humanity's sins would be forgiven, saving... well, humanity. Aziraphale could do the same with Adam and yes, of course, he's just an angel so he doesn't have the same liberties as God and whatever, but the reason why Aziraphale doesn't do it isn't rooted in that thought. It's rooted in simply knowing it's wrong, a horrible thing to do that he couldn't do.

Crowley, putting Aziraphale in that position, nudges him into keep questioning God and their Great Plan and Heaven and how good they all really are, and I think that is very interesting.

Job's arc does something similar, but in the opposite way. Aziraphale comes into this scene already questioning God and their actions but convinced Crowley wouldn't go through with it. His conviction wavers once, but then he's proved correct when he miracles the goats back to their shape. Crowley, the demon, couldn't kill them, so he hid them instead. Not is only God's plan something Aziraphale is clearly against, but Crowley's actions are what Aziraphale would deem as good. We all know this.

I'm not sure if Aziraphale truly, by the end of the scene, still believes Heaven is where the good guys are and Crowley is simply a exception to the rule, but going back there is going to finally cement the thoughts and doubts he's had since the very Beginning, but that he hasn't dared to fully accept and voice beyond a couple of actions here and there.

Anyhow, I know this is old water under the bridge and that we all know this but I'm new in the fandom and had to vomit my thoughts about this scene with Crowley telling Aziraphale he could kill the Antichrist (the wrong kid, at that, so maybe it's better that Aziraphale didn't go along with that plan lol).

#my thoughts #good omens #ineffable husbands #my gif #crowley #aziraphale #aziracrow #txt #good omens 2

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ofpineapplesanddawns · 8 months

Note

Looking for writing prompts? Hmmm... how about Muriel walking in on Aziraphale and Crowley making out? I would looove to see how they all handled that! 😂

Oh boy, haha.

Warning: making out between the ineffables

On with the fic!

Muriel looked at the stack of books that Crowley had left for them to put away, giving them direct instructions to put them in a very specific order to confuse customers while he was off doing inventory with Aziraphale.

However, he didn't explain to her just how confusing the instructions would be to them as well.

"I don't... think this is gonna be in the right place." They frowned, picking up a copy of Emma off the pile. Muriel looked at the instruction sheet and made a face. "'Put it in by...' how am I supposed to know where A Brief History of Time is?"

Muriel sighed and set the book down, glancing over to the back of the shop, to the room where they remembered Crowley had pulled Aziraphale into during their very first encounter here on Earth.

That's where those two were now, doing inventory. Crowley had asked them not to disturb them, they had work to do, along with some more 'catching up', since Aziraphale's return to Earth and reinstatement as the retired representative of Earth.

"Well... it's not really disturbing if I have a question about the task, right?" They reasoned to themself as they approached the door and gave it a knock.

They didn't hear a response, then knocked again. This time they heard a very odd, loud gasp, it sounded like the demon! Was he hurt? Oh, they'd better go check and help!

"Mr. Crowley, are you o-?" They opened the door and paused, looking at the two figures in the room.

Aziraphale had Crowley pinned to a wall, his mouth on the demon's neck, frozen in place with wide eyes. Crowley's legs were wrapped around the angel's waist and his hands were tangled in curly locks of hair.

His shades were missing and his eyes were huge, the pupils thin as they looked at Muriel. The very flushed color of his face quickly turned to a deathly pale.

"M-Muriel!? What the heaven- why are you- for someone's sake, knock!"

Muriel tilted their head. "I did, twice. No one responded, and then I heard you moan in pain, so I had to make sure you were okay."

"It... certainly was a moan, but not one of pain." Aziraphale mumbled, pulling his mouth away from Crowley's neck. He cleared his throat. "Dear, uhh... this isn't..."

"If you're going to tell me this isn't what it looks like, then I know you're lying." Muriel sniffed. "I've been on Earth long enough to know what snogging looks like." They said, feeling a bit proud about that fact. They were very good at observing humans and retaining all the information that Crowley had taught them!

Also, they'd been watching a lot of romantic movies with Crowley when he needed company while Aziraphale was gone, so that helped.

Crowley burst into laughter at Aziraphale's embarrassed face. "I told you they're observant, angel! Not as easy to fool as that first meetin'!"

"Oh shut up, Crowley." Aziraphale grumbled, setting him back on his feet. "We'll have to continue later, I think my new shop assistant needs some help with your nonsense instructions. I'm sure that's what this is about, yes, Muriel?" The other angel nodded.

"Hey, hey! You told me to come up with a confusing system, and I did! It could rival your nonsense!"

Muriel stepped aside to let the two, bickering beings pass them back into the shop while they followed behind, snickering at the new couple.

I'd like to think Muriel and Crowley ran the shop while Aziraphale was off doing... whatever the hell he's supposed to be doing in Heaven. And Crowley taught Muriel all sorts of human-y things. And introduced them to rom-coms.

#good omens #ineffable husbands #crowley #anthony j crowley #Aziraphale #muriel #john's drabbles

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qwilanikan · 2 months

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On Marriage in Fandom (with specific emphasis on Good Omens)

I’ve been reading a lot of GO fan fiction recently, and mostly I have been loving it! There are some amazing writers in this community and I’m so grateful to be able to benefit from their time and skill and imagination! But… I have a lot of cognitive dissonance when it comes to shipping Azicrow, and others, and the romanticization that fandoms put on marriage and them being married/husbands.

Some context: I am a relationship anarchist.

I wrote another post with more details about what this means to me, including my opinions on marriage as an institution, with a bunch of links to articles and resources if you are interested in digging into this a bit more.

So, I mentioned some cognitive dissonance. I am pretty obsessed with Good Omens and with Aziraphale and Crowley and their relationship. But, the fact that they rely solely on each other, does not align with my own values. I don’t think it is healthy for them to have no other sources of support.

And, of course there is a lot of discourse about them being ‘husbands’, what with the ‘ineffable husbands’ thing and such.

This is something I’ve been thinking about for a while and felt compelled to try to express after encountering it over and over. Even though there are things about their relationship that don’t align with my values, I gush over Azicrow since they are not real, it’s a fantasy. I have lifelong friends that I rely on and trust and care about deeply. And so I can admire that in their relationship. But once it enters the realm of marriage it gets harder for me.

I see a lot of idealization of marriage in fandom without reflection or critique. This is not unique to fandom by any means, it’s ingrained in our socialization.

I am uncomfortable with so much emphasis on marriage (and hierarchical romantic relationships). I think organized monogamy and rule-based relationships (especially marriage) are about control and ownership, not love and respect and trust. I don’t find that appealing at all. I wish the focus was on their love for each other, rather than creating a rule-based relationship between them and idealizing that.

I try to suspend my disbelief and just enjoy the warm fuzzies of Aziraphale and Crowley being cute. I love Aziracrow because I see their love and care for each other and their care for the world and humanity. I want to celebrate that love and I don’t want to imagine that they are trying to control and coerce each other. I don’t think that supports their love, I think it supports unhealthy systems in our society.

notes:

* I want to acknowledge that this is not specific to Good Omens. For instance this has been very present on the OFMD fandom since season two, and is just everywhere all the time.

* I have historically mostly lurked, and consumed fandom, rather than engaging publicly myself. But this is something that I really care about and I want to be able to discuss. (Please feel free to engage with me about this!)

*I read one fic, (To reveal my heart in ink by chaoticlivi), which I loved. And something that I really appreciated about this fic is that even though Az and Crowley’s relationship was definitely sexual, and probably romantic (whatever that means… but that’s another topic), Az still continued to call Crowley ‘friend’ the whole time. I loved that so much! There’s no reason they can’t still call each other ‘friend’ regardless of the ways that they relate might shift over time.

* Also, as occult/ethereal beings there is no practical advantage of them getting married, as they don’t need the financial or governmental benefits it gives you, so the only reason to do it is to idealize the idea of it and its hierarchical nature

#fandom #fanfiction #fanfic #good omens #crowly x aziraphale #relationship anarchy #relationship politics #marriage #anti marriage #let’s discuss #my thoughts

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queriesntheories · 9 months

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how do you do?

I love to make Stuff: writing things, artsy things, music things, whole buncha things. I also post a lot of nonsense thoughts, and share the cool things I find around the web, especially artsy fun things and stuff that makes internet surfing a little easier.

You’ll see some swearing in the tags, but any jokes on the ruder side I keep tagged; block #not so family friendly if you don't want to see that.

I have a Good Omens sideblog on @bananafishgorillashoelace (with a dash of nutmeg) you can peek at if you love the silly ineffable husbands like I do!

I'm proudly queer and genderfluid! Not entirely out everywhere, still figuring myself out but generally just trying to do whatever feels fun. All of my trans/queer/questioning siblings out there; I see you, I hear you, and I love you /p (and to folks who are aspec in any form, you're the freakin coolest and I hope something nice happens to you this week! this is entirely unrelated to me, I just hope you have a great day!)

If you need anything tagged just shoot me a message, I’m easy going and don’t mind it. Actually just message me generally I like talking to people :>

More info about this blog and the stuff I do under the cut, but thank you for stopping by regardless of the reason why ^^

- Trans rights all the way. That includes all trans people! Trans women are welcome here! Always!!

- Black Lives Matter.

- NSFW/Kink blogs, please do not interact full stop.

I keep the playing/talking field fairly even when I can. I don’t have the energy to argue with people (and I don’t think you do either, really). If you don’t like what you find here, or anything I've said, shoot me a message or tag me! We can talk it out.

Otherwise, you’re more than welcome to take your leave and block me.

Anyway, here are some…

I exist on YouTube as AychTooOh, making music shitposts, playlists, and the occasional fan edit! I try to upload when I can; if you have any playlist ideas send them my way :D

I have made a Wug Picrew, so you can make a cute creature from child linguistics (this is one of my favourite things)

Sometime I write fanfiction on AO3, on the rare occasion that a silly pairing or a scenario socks me in the face with inspiration

I exist on Themeplaza too, occasionally making silly fun 3DS system themes/splashes! (and if you have any requests, shoot me a DM and I'll see what I can do!)

I have some old art on Newgrounds; very very inactive over there, but that's where you might see art I post for collabs :P

Aside from my GO sideblog, I'm also working on turning my tag #q’s internet trinkets into a neocities page! Check back soon for updates, and please send me stuff you think might fit ^^

I also have a pretty hefty original project of my own that I've been chipping away at for the better part of two to three years! If the fates align, you might see it this year!! ;D

Here are some cool people I think are very neat that you should follow too

@paperoxalis - very skilled 2D and stop-motion animator, sculptor, artist, and writer too! They recently released an adorable animation you can watch here :)

@scottysee - artist, writer and animator working on so many projects; always amazed by their work! You can join their Discord server here :)

@unknown-is-aaaa - very talented artist with an interest in plenty of fandoms, and a heck of a cool-looking art style! They also have a Twitter you can check out here :)

@galandrielle - long-time writer with a heck of a story to tell! Check out her work here! (I’d recommend starting with Michael and John - A Story of Friendship)

@canceltheact - more like a group, but these guys on the theory team are the best and are such wonderful friends to have! <3

@midnightnautilus - artist/animator/writer/squid, creator of the amazing Markiplier AU “A Bit of Madness”!

@backlitrabbit - ARG enthusiast, aspiring writer and all-round very cool human. Check out their YouTube channel here :D

#putting this in my pocket for later - stuff I save for future things

#things q thinks are cool - posts that make me go “:o” (I have many a subtag for this that usually starts with "and by cool i mean (adjective)")

#Q’s creations - the stuff I make :D (don't question the capital letter, i messed up)

#friends of q - things from my friends :)

#q’s internet trinkets - Fun/useful internet things I find that you can use (mostly free if I can help it, bc fun is essential to the human experience even if you’re tight on cash)

#q rambles - my funny little soapbox

#asks go brrr - asks :D please send me asks they're very fun

#not so family friendly - Not entirely PG-13 stuff I find interesting/funny, but still want to share. Block this tag if you want a clean dash, I won’t judge.

#bag of rainbow things - like the things I find cool tag, but LGBTQ+ community/education/history related. (and also probably personally related to me ahaha ^^;)

#yay recipes! - recipes from places! Some of these may also be in the pocket tag; I’ll work on sorting them eventually

#q’s crow obsession - for all your Corvid needs

#wiggly frequencies - the hills are alive with the sound of muse (yes I’m making a DaThings reference on my pinned post cause her stuff rocks. Anyway this is where the music stuff lives)

#because funni - *slams whiteboard* LAUGH!

(ps if you're wondering where I got these cool little gifs from they're from blinkies.cafe and they rule <3) (I also got this star divider from here!) (last updated 26/02/24)

#pinned post #flashing gif #flashing warning #because of the blinkies; sorry!#queer #queer creator #genderfluid

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vintage-bentley · 7 months

Note

your polls got me thinking…. i think the most irritating part about ineffable hetties is that it’s always crowley they make the woman. which makes aziraphale some straight guy when he’s been the one written as the more flamboyant gay one. like gun to my head if one of them had to be bi I Guess crowley makes more sense just bc he’s less obviously homosexual. but they really like picking on the one that gets called gay slurs and acts more effeminate to be straight or bi. like that just is really telling lol

You’re so right. It’s very clear that much of ineffable hetties comes from either a discomfort with same sex attraction, a genuine hatred for it, or the belief that opposite sex attraction is inherently superior in one way or another. Look at all of the fics and art where Crowley shows up as a woman, and Aziraphale “seducing women? Me? I think you have the wrong shop” Fell is suddenly more attracted to “her” than he’s ever been, as if femaleness was the missing ingredient to getting him to feel true lust (this is also done with just having Crowley wearing ‘women’s’ clothes, which let’s be honest the fandom sees as code for woman lol). There’s clearly an attitude that OSA is somehow better and more interesting, and it’s really frustrating.

As far as Crowley and overt homosexuality goes, though…I’d argue that he’s just as stereotypically gay as Aziraphale, just in a different way. A big part of his character is how fashionable he is, how he’s always pristinely put together and wearing the latest trends. Obviously that’s not an indicator of homosexuality lmao but if we’re purely going by stereotypes, it’s definitely a stereotype that gay men are like that. There was also the little detail of him calling Aziraphale “Lady Bracknell”, which reminds me a lot of how older gay men talk about each other. I doubt that’s the first time he’s done something like that. Then of course in the book, he likes Golden Girls.

And then there’s how he approached the Maggie and Nina issue. When he was in the window trying to get them to kiss, there was no icky or creepy feeling to it like there would be with a straight or bi guy. If he were attracted to women, I think that scene would feel a lot different. And it made it even more important to me to view him as homosexual.

But I agree that to most people, at first glance Aziraphale’s going to come across as very gay, while Crowley might not be as clear. And it’s very obvious that the fandom hates Aziraphale for this, with how often they erase any of his flamboyance and replace it with stereotypical straight guy machoness, and pair him with Sexy Lady Crowley. Homosexuality and the obvious display of it makes them deeply uncomfortable for whatever reason, so they just do the easy thing and replace it with heterosexuality instead of actually taking the time to rethink their perspective.

#asks #anon

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echthr0s · 6 months

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I feel like I've made this post before but I can't actually remember if I did or not, so. if I repeat myself I repeat myself (wouldn't be the first time)

I of course get why "why aren't more alter/nonhumans talking about x experiences?" is a common refrain but one response I don't think I've ever seen is "well. what's to say?"

like part of the reason I take so well to tumblr is because it's got scrapbook vibes. I can have a tag for a facet of my self-conception and just throw things into it as I'm called to -- visual art, music, poems, a textpost that resonates. I can express how this thing feels without having to scrounge together some ineffectual words to try and explain the ineffable or whatever

similarly, I just am not that sort of individual. Grey, who was here before me, was that sort of individual. I am continually amazed by his facility with words and his ability to make poetry out of fucking anything. that sort of thing is far more incidental and rare for me than it was for him. he was very cerebral in a way that I cannot access as well, just as I am very sensory and visceral in a way that he didn't seem to value as much. this means I have a lot of feelings and sense impressions and imagery when it comes to my self-conception but words? yeah, not so much

some of us are just not essay-writers, to put it simply. in dialogue with others I might be able to contribute a few insights, and if I'm asked a direct question I find that to be excellent reason to expend the effort of explanation, but mostly I exist in a lush and multidimensional complexity that I find increasingly difficult to satisfactorily express

#some of us are just here. vibing. having wild experiences and revelations that we find impossible to transcribe #hell even in my own diary i'm like. flailing for words. i don't even bother recording stuff for my OWN sake half the time bc it's so hard #you should see some of my obsidian files. just totally inscrutable to the passing observer.#i'm not mysterious on purpose (most of the time) it just kind of comes with the territory of me-ness #this is not meant to discourage curiosity btw. i like it when people are curious! that's the best reason to put in the effort of explaining #(i know i already said that in the post. it just bears repeating!)#singularity.txt #ok fine i'll put general tags just in case anyone wants to 🤝 with me over being overlooked non-essayists #alterhuman #nonhuman

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tallerthantale · 2 months

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What Does Aziraphale Actually Believe, Part 9: They Know Not What They Do

This is a series of my takes on what Aziraphale believes through the timeline of the show. It is all my personal interpretation, and I am happy to hear others. You don’t need to read them all in order, but know that I am coming from a perspective on Aziraphale’s machinations that can be difficult for people without a psychology background to follow without the first two as a primer. The quick version is that Aziraphale has a set of beliefs that exist in some form or another within his mind. However, at any given moment, only some of them exist ‘with awareness.’ The context of the moment will determine what lives on the surface and what stays buried outside that awareness, whatever arrangement best prevents a threat to Aziraphale’s sense of self and makes whatever he is inclined to do feel right.

While I have been going through the timeline, there have been a few points that have been put on hold, that I’ve promised I would circle back to later, because I needed to integrate a lot of information from different points on the timeline. Now is the time for that integration. I need to more seriously address the question of how Aziraphale can still believe angels are existentially good in the abstract, with all that he has seen them do, while also believing they are acting against the wishes of God.

If angels are good by definition and don’t have a choice in their moral alignment, how do they end up committing morally reprehensible acts? If Aziraphale uses his own continued ethereal status to prove to himself God is fine with his actions, wouldn’t that also prove God is fine with all of the other angels’ actions? Not exactly, and the reason takes us all the way back to the opening of Season 1. The first point I promised I would eventually get back to was a question:

What happens if Aziraphale thinks he isn’t supposed to know what God’s will is, because it’s not for him to understand, but he also thinks that he does know it? What are the consequences of having knowledge he isn’t supposed to have?

Responsibility.

I Slithered Here From Eden

The design of the universe (according to Aziraphale) is letting humans choose sides between good and evil. That is a choice that humans make, and celestial entities don’t. But at what point did humans get that choice?

They had to have knowledge of good and evil first. As far as philosophers tend to frame things, it’s only really free will if you know what you are doing with informed consent. By eating the apple, Eve and Adam gave that knowledge to humanity. Now that humanity has the knowledge of good and evil, they have the power to make a choice, and the responsibility to choose good.

One point I glossed over at my first look at Eden is that Aziraphale was on apple tree duty. He failed that mission in a big way. While there are fun speculations about Aziraphale being distracted by the sexy snek, I wonder if he had a hard time with the idea that knowledge of good and evil was bad. When discussing the human’s transgression, Aziraphale weakly says, “It must be bad… … otherwise you wouldn’t have tempted them into it.” It’s not a compelling argument as to why eating the apple was bad, and frankly, there isn’t one. The most compelling argument I could give is that lacking knowledge of good and evil shields people from responsibility to do good, and it might be kinder not to burden humanity with that responsibility. I think during their conversation at the wall, Aziraphale won’t see things that way because that would hit too close to home.

When Crowley encouraged Eve about the apple, Crowley was just looking to stir up trouble, and was surprised they were punished so harshly. From Crowley’s perspective, I would imagine the apple as a precursor to the real temptations. Crowley argues his points logically, he is not on the ineffability train. How do you make a logical argument about what is fair and reasonable to someone who has no concept of good and evil? You’d have to teach them about good and evil first. Crowley makes arguments that are built on meaningful concepts of right and wrong frequently. They are not alien to him.

When Aziraphale takes on the worldview that the universe is set up to allow humans to choose between good and evil, he is tacitly endorsing the idea that Eve and Adam eating the apple was part of the Ineffable Plan. This was originally Crowley’s idea, though it may have just been sarcastic. Aziraphale has taken it on for real. Now the humans are choosing good and evil.

'The Right Thing'

Aziraphale has asserted very confidently twice in the timeline that choosing is for humans. Not celestials, just humans. I’ve talked about how this is self serving for him, it means he is good by definition. It makes his place in the universe make sense, it gives him a sense of self and purpose. It also has major downsides, in that it makes him consider Crowley existentially evil independent of his character and actions, which makes a mess of how he treats Crowley. It also risks entrapping him into considering the other angels definitionally good, and believing that whatever they do is definitionally 'the right thing'. The instability of what Aziraphale believes situation to situation lets him spend most of his time avoiding the downsides of any particular belief system, he mostly pulls them into focus when they are useful, and forgets about them when they aren’t.

When I’ve brought up ‘choosing is for humans’ before I glossed over a key question. Why is choosing just for humans? Not in the sense of what motivates Aziraphale to believe that, what does he think the reason is? By the Edinburgh framing, why don’t celestials have the capacity to choose that humans have? The answer: they never ate the apple. They have no meaningful knowledge of good and evil. The institution of heaven is a rigid hierarchy. Angels and demons only know what they need to know to follow orders. They have no opinions on ethics or grounded morality. 'The right thing' is a term of art for the heavenly code of conduct. 'The wrong thing' is a term of art for the demonic code of conduct.

Something shifts in Aziraphale's relationship to humanity at Edinburgh as he is confronted several times over with scenarios he can't help but notice demonstrate that the normal day to day heavenly code of conduct, 'the right thing,' is absolutely not in keeping with what he would personally understand to be morally good. It was not a one off instance from God that could be a test, the issue was the system. He was forced to acknowledge Crowley knew what was morally right better than he did, and that he knows what is morally good better than the other angels do. Aziraphale's biggest leaps forward happen when he is forced to admit he does actually have an opinion that is his own.

I think for the audience, the absurdity of 'the right thing' and 'the wrong thing' being terms of art is most pronounced when demons are tasked with doing 'the wrong thing' because God represents Herself to will it. When Crowley 'destroys' Job's goats and children, his permit is signed by God. Crowley understands his assignment as given by God. Does that make it 'the right thing'? No, it's outsourced to hell because the aesthetics are wrong, and if it's been given to hell to do, that makes it 'the wrong thing' for Crowley to do it. Does that make it 'the right thing' for Crowley to refuse? No, because the code of conduct for the angels it to let it happen, and Crowley isn't an angel anyway. The correct thing for Crowley to do is 'the wrong thing,' that God want's him to do. (Aziraphale doesn't believe that is what God wants in that case, but he does believe that God generally wants demons to do demonic things.)

These terms have no relationship to what is actually morally good or bad. However, the knowledge from the apple does have that grounded relationship. Humans need that connection to have that real choice, and be accountable for that choice. Celestials are following orders, they aren't 'supposed' to be making choices, they are 'supposed' to do what they are told. Knowledge of actual good and actual evil has no value to their professional role. Aziraphale continues to think that ignorance is how things ought to work all the way to the 1800's, and even as he shifts to wanting the other angels to have the depth of that knowledge, he can plainly observe that they don't.

To be clear, this isn’t to say that celestials are not able to decide to do things, but rather that as Aziraphale sees it, their actions cannot be judged in a way that impacts their moral alignment. The angels aren't responsible for the misalignment of heaven because they don’t know any better. Their actions don’t make them less existentially good, because they are too ignorant to make informed choices. Same with the demons. I don’t think Aziraphale would consider any of them to have chosen evil, because they didn’t have knowledge. Fate put them in the evil role, and they do what they are told. Choosing sides is for the humans, and they are only able to do it because of their ability to know the difference between good and evil.

As we move past Edinburgh, Aziraphale understands that the angels, near universally, are maintaining a system that doesn't let humans choose freely thee way he would believe in, and thus they are maintaining a system that he believes isn't operating as God would want. As a practical matter of staffing, it would make a mess of things if She turned them all into demons.

Aziraphale can use his maintained ethereal status to prove to himself that he is on good terms with God, because he is the odd one out. If Aziraphale is in the wrong, and heaven has the right of it, it doesn't break the system to fell the weirdo angel going off on temptation missions as a treat and salivating over demon décolletage. If everyone else is wrong, the remedy for that has to be learning, growth, education, and training, not leaving Aziraphale as the last angel standing.

Unconditional Forgiveness

The second time Aziraphale argues choosing is for humans, it isn’t an argument about ability anymore. He wants all of the angels to join him in deciding not to choose a side, in taking a caretaker role over the system that lets the humans choose. He presents this plan to the archangels, offering them a way forward that would move them away from ignorant obedience and us vs them thinking, into a world of layers and depth.

They are not prepared to go along with Aziraphale on this, lacking his 6000 year long character arc of developing knowledge of ethical complexity. Uriel accuses Aziraphale of thinking too much. When Aziraphale shouts at the archangels on their way back to heaven, he calls them ‘bad angels’ in the tone someone would use to say 'bad dog.' It is an expression of them being ‘bad at being angels’ yes, but it is also an expression of their lack of depth, lack of thought, and lack of understanding. It is a condescending dismissiveness of their capacity to make valid decisions. I don’t think Aziraphale retains any animus towards them after the scene ends, because they don’t have enough knowledge to be accountable for their actions.

When Crowley confronts Gabriel in Season 2, he points out that Aziraphale wasn't there for his execution. He never witnessed Gabriel tell him to “shut his stupid face and die.” That's true, but I honestly don’t think it would make a difference to Aziraphale. Aziraphale also does not retain the resentment for Michael’s role in Crowley’s failed execution that Crowley has for Gabriel. I don’t think that comes from a lack of valuing Crowley, but instead speaks to Aziraphale’s unwillingness to apply accountability to celestial entities. Gabriel hasn’t eaten the apple. Michael hasn’t eaten the apple. Forgive them for they know not what they do. Automatically, no hesitation. Without knowledge of good and evil, they are not responsible.

But That's For Them

I have talked about how Aziraphale doesn’t believe everything he can believe at once, and his potential beliefs often contradict themselves. Aziraphale has a lot of shame and self doubt for someone with developed strategies on how to be certain his choices are good by definition. (Not an uncommon phenomenon IRL, but still an ironic one. People develop the strategies because they feel a need to have them.) He puts an enormous burden on himself to do the right thing, compared to the instant and absolute forgiveness he grants to the other angels. Aziraphale does gloss over his own mistakes, but not by forgiving himself. He does it by burying the shame out of his awareness because he can't forgive himself.

Over time Aziraphale has become more settled into comfortably believing that he can intuit God’s will in ways the other angels... I wouldn't say 'can't,' but at the very least, don't. Along with that comfort, he has developed his own senses of what is morally good, and morally bad, and those opinions diverge from how the concepts are framed by heaven and hell. He can also observe that the other angels have not developed these concepts. Gabriel has a preference for getting what he wants, Michael has a preference for order, and Uriel woke up this morning and chose violence. They have personalities, but no moral compass. Post Edinburgh Aziraphale typically considers himself to have knowledge of good and evil that the other angels do not have. Given that he is correct, I am willing to forgive him the arrogance.

Aziraphale understands that ‘wrong’ as defined by heaven has no substance. What he sometimes forgets is that he personally does have substance. It is uncomfortable for him to know that, because the weight of responsibility is tied to it. When he is told to do something he cannot do, or abide by something he cannot let stand, Aziraphale believes he has knowledge of good and evil, because he needs to own that knowledge to justify going against the party line. When it kicks in, he feels the weight of the responsibility to make the morally right choice, and he feels the horror of all the other angels being on board with the morally wrong one.

The moments where he goes against heaven and the rest of the angels because he thinks that he understands God’s will and that they don’t are not Aziraphale at his most self righteous. Quite the opposite, he usually seems hesitant and ashamed. He has knowledge of good and evil, but he doesn’t think he is supposed to have it. Most of the time he wishes that he didn’t. Aziraphale is very good at suppressing knowledge he wishes he didn’t have.

The evidence isn’t always visible, but Aziraphale has metaphorically eaten the apple. So has Crowley, although I don’t think Aziraphale believes Crowley was responsible for his fall. I think modern Aziraphale is fully onboard with the idea that God felled Crowley into a martyr as part of a larger plan. The other celestials haven’t eaten the apple. Yet. Saraqael and Muriel are probably on their way, but I don’t think Gabriel and Beelzebub are. They went AWOL for love, not for principles. For Crowley and Aziraphale, as grand as their love for each other is and has been, their principles always came first. That is what they love about each other.

To Shades of Grey

At Uz Crowley was a demon who goes along with hell as far as he can, and Aziraphale was an angel who goes along with heaven as far as he can. To the extent that they experienced a choice, it was finding ways to be as conformist to their jobs as their principles would let them. Post agreement, they tend to stray as far as they can get away with. Their principles would allow them to be more conformist, they just don’t want to be. They aren't trading and gambling on their professional assignments at the Globe because Aziraphale got asked by Gabriel to allow an atrocity in the name of heaven, or because Crowley got tasked with killing children, it was because neither of them felt like bothering to ride a horse up to Scotland. There is no rock vs. hard place dilemma there.

At first Aziraphale hides behind believing that he is too definitionally good for doing Crowley's assignments to be 'choosing' anything, or creatively reframes his understanding of responsibility to not feel his actions are impacting the outcome. After the church bombing, something clicked when he allowed himself to know he was in love with a demon. He let himself know he was choosing to meaningfully stray from the expectations of what it supposedly means to be an angel.

In 1941, Aziraphale offered a toast “To Shades of Grey.” At this toast, Aziraphale let himself understand that he and Crowley do have a degree of choice, and the shades they each choose are not pure. The responsibility is something he really doesn’t want to engage with most of the time. The option is there though. If a decent set of situational beliefs can be cobbled together, Aziraphale can believe that he and Crowley are human aligned enough to choose a little, deciding to become a bit grey, and with that comes the responsibility and accountability that the other celestials don’t have.

I think the choice of their shades of grey needs to be understood relative to their respective defaults. Aziraphale represents a default white that decided to become light grey, and Crowley represents a default black that decided to become dark grey. We can understand this as Crowley preferring darker shades to Aziraphale, and while that is true, I think it is very misleading. Crowley is choosing the lightest shade of the options available to him, and Aziraphale is choosing the darkest shade of the options available to him. I don’t think that is lost on Aziraphale. It is one of the tragedies of their miscommunication that Aziraphale believes Crowley to be the better one, while consistently saying sentences a reasonable listener would assume mean the opposite.

To The World

The toast is offered by Crowley. Crowley, who argues with God over Her treatment of humanity. Crowley, who gave humanity knowledge of good and evil. Crowley, who paved the way for saving Job’s children. Crowley, who convinced Aziraphale to work to alleviate human suffering, and give a way 90 guineas. Crowley, who convinced Aziraphale of the need for humans to have equal opportunity. Crowley, who convinced Aziraphale to try to derail the Great Plan. Crowley, who convinced Aziraphale to stand up to the Institution of Heaven. Crowley, who just before this toast predicted their peace wouldn’t last.

To the World. Their home together. Their future together. Their choice together. Their responsibility together. Aziraphale believes they are committed to defending the earth together. And, he believes that is what God wants them both to do.

Part 9/10

#good omens #good omens meta #go meta #ineffable spouses #ineffable husbands #aziracrow #aziraphale #what does aziraphale actually believe

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