#and i have a linguistics degree

[coquelicoq]

what i like especially about the pronouns in the goblin emperor is that this language doesn't just have the T-V distinction (aka informal vs. formal second-person pronouns, in this case 'thou' vs. 'you'), it also has informal and formal first-person pronouns. having BOTH of these distinctions in the same language lets you fine-tune your tone by mixing and matching. with only one axis of formality, when you use informal pronouns, are you being familiar in an intimate way, or in an insolent or dismissive way? when you use formal pronouns, are you being polite or standoffish? you can't tell just from the pronouns; there's ambiguity. but a language where you can use a formal first-person pronoun in the same sentence as an informal second-person pronoun allows you to distance yourself (via the formal first) while also being familiar (via the informal second), thereby achieving the conversational tenor known to linguists as Fuck Thee Specifically.

#just kidding i don't know what linguists call that tenor. or any tenors. i'm not totally positive what a tenor even is #but i can't let that stop me from writing a jokey post on tumblr dot com #register is a very interesting area of linguistics that i know very little about #so i'm probably revealing the depths of my vast ignorance here to all the sociolinguists who surely hang on my every word #but i've always thought of the formal/informal pronoun thing as being about two things: intimacy-distance & rudeness-politeness #and of course you can usually tell from context whether a formal pronoun is meant to indicate distance or politeness #(plus distance and politeness are related to each other (to various degrees depending on culture)) #but it seems like it would be cool to have a built-in alignment chart of sorts just for pronoun combos #instead of prep jock nerd goth...why not try intimate self-effacing polite superior? #the goblin emperor #pronouns #register #sociolinguistics #my posts #f #anyway i know i said i wasn't going to reread the goblin emperor...but guess what. lol #and i edited my tags on that earlier post but fyi the language DOES distinguish between plural and formal singular pronouns #i had said i thought it used the same pronouns for plural and formal but i just wasn't paying close enough attention #so anyway i just reread the part where maia is talking to setheris in formal first and informal second #and you can see setheris going ohhh shit. oh shit oh shit oh shit #i'm in biiiiiig trouble #you sure are dude. that's the Time to Grovel signal #it's interesting because at the very beginning of the book when i first saw the formal first used i just thought it was the royal we #because i knew the main character was supposed to be royalty #but then EVERYONE was doing it. so it's not the royal we it's just the formal we #however. this does make me realize that the way the royal we would function in a language that retains the t-v distinction #is the same way i'm describing here. it's just reserving that particular tone (i'm better than you and am displeased with you) #for royalty only. which makes sense given royalty's whole deal

[visualtaehyun]

Names, particles, aliens and ghosts, oh my!

Disclaimer: not a native Thai speaker, still learning 🙏

Ongsa & Alpha

Last week's episode started with the trio talking about the sisters' names:

Nunnapat Ampornsopon /Nan-na-phat Am-phaawn-soh-phohn/ Matthayom 4, class 6 (=10th grade) English

While we see this, Tin tells us Alpha's name too:

Napatsanun Ampornsopon นภัสนันท์ อัมพรโสภณ /Na-phat-sa-nan Am-phaawn-soh-phohn/

Her and Ongsa's first names have the exact same two words in them, just switcheroo'd: นันท์ /nan/ = joy, happiness; นภัส /na phat/ = sky, heaven

-> Quick pronunciation lesson: The final consonant in นภัส /na phat/ is called ส เสือ /saw seuua/ (= lit. S like the word for tiger) but in final position it's pronounced as a /t/. In Alpha's name, that same letter gets reduplicated to better link นภัส /na phat/ and นันท์ /nan/ so we get Napat-sa-nun!

Their last name Ampornsopon contains: อัมพร /am phaawn/ = sky; โสภณ /soh phohn/ = beautiful

Aylin

Her club application form was only shown in a Next Break preview last week, not the actual scene, but I wanted to take a look at it anyway:

Application to join the Astronomy Club Name: Aylin Kueaahree Grade: Matthayom 4, class 1 (=10th grade) Hobbies: Communicating with aliens Goal in joining the club: Searching for a friend/friends

Aylin is her first name, her last name is เกื้ออารีย์ /geuua aa ree/: เกื้อ /geuua/ = to aid, do a favor, assist, lend a hand; อารีย์ /ah ree/ = kind, generous

We saw her name properly this week, too, in the document she hilariously designed, wrote up, and filled out by hand:

Permit for spending the night at S-TAR school Subject: Asking for permission to stay the night at school for the duration of 1 night To: Counselling homeroom teacher I, (young Mr./young Miss/Mr./Miss) Aylin Keuaahree, ID number 406123, student of Matthayom 4/1, need to stay over at school ... on the date of the 24th of the month of August in the year of 2566 (2023) from 20.00 o'clock until 06.00 o'clock. Please kindly take it into consideration. Respectfully yours Aylin Keuaahree (Miss Aylin Keuaahree) Student

I've mentioned before that the subs are a bit too generous and don't quite show how much Aylin limits her speech to the minimum she needs to get her point across. One thing that consistently gets subbed is how she differentiates between aliens and humans. But not every instance of human is the same. She does seem to differentiate between general observations about human behavior and specific humans she talks to, now even addressing them appropriately (albeit with the 'human' descriptor).

1) มนุษย์ครูใจร้าย /ma noot khruu jai raai/ = [You] are mean, teacher human. 2) มันเป็นหนทางที่เลี่ยนจะได้เจอเพื่อนนะ /man bpen hon thaang thee alien ja dai juuhr pheuuan na/

มนุษย์ชอบถามแปลก ๆ /ma noot chaawp thaam bplaaek bplaaek/ = Humans like to ask weird questions.

1) มนุษย์พี่เคยบอกเอง ว่าเรื่องที่เชื่อไม่ใช่เรื่องที่ไร้สาระ /ma noot phi koei baawk ehng - waa reuuang thee cheuua mai chai reuuang thee rai saa ra/ = [You] said so [your]self, senior human - that what [I] believe in isn't nonsense. 2) ทำไมมนุษย์ชอบกลับคำพูด /tham mai ma noot chaawp glap kham phuut/ = Why do humans like to go back on their word?

Luna, Mawin, and Ton

Thanks again, Tin, for helpfully giving us all the names lol:

Luna Lalita Chanthaboriboon ลูน่า ลลิตา จันทบริบูรณ์ /Luu-naa La-lee-dtaa Jan-tha-baw-ree-buun/

Luna is her nickname, her first name Lalita ลลิตา means pretty, charming, lovely, and her last name จันทบริบูรณ์ contains: จันท /jan tha/ from จันทร์ /jan/ = moon; บริบูรณ์ /baw ree buun/ = complete, full, perfect, abundant

พี่เป็นดวงจันทร์ต่างหาก /phi bpen duuang jan dtaang haak/

Moving on to the boys-

Mawin Kow(a)charoen มาวิน โค้วเจริญ /Maa-win Khoh(-wa)-ja-reern/ -> the added 'wa' would be for the same ease-of-pronunciation reason I explained earlier with Alpha's name

Mawin isn't a Thai name but his last name โค้วเจริญ consists of: โค้ว* likely from หมูโค้ว /moo khoh/? = a pork belly dish เจริญ /ja reern/ = the same as Charoen's name, meaning to pray/chant, to prosper, to thrive

Edit, addition by @recentadultburnout: Based on the usual pattern, the *โค้ว in the surname โค้วเจริญ is likely a Chinese surname that got incorporated into a Thai one. โค้ว is one of the top ten most used ones among Chinese surnames in Thailand. As for [his first name] มาวิน, while it was indeed not originally Thai, it did have a meaning—a borrowed word plus slang of sorts. A winner or to win.

Ton Thanakorn Khajornyoo ต้น ธนกร ขจรอยู่ /Dtohn Tha-na-gaawn Kha-jaawn-yuu/

His first name ธนกร /tha na gaawn/ = to create assets/capital; rich, wealthy His nickname Ton ต้น might stem haha from the plant (ต้น)ขจร /(dtohn) kha jaawn/, a type of vine. ต้น /dtohn/ is a prefix used for plants but it can also mean leader, chief, leading, beginning, etc. His last name ขจรอยู่ /kha jawn yuu/ = is spread/spreading, emanating, diffusing

An addendum about Ton

Last week, I wondered if maybe Ton was a closeted gay guy because of a handful of instances where AJ's delivery of the typically-female polite ending particles ค่ะ/คะ /kha/ sounded pretty sassy (and because he's Ongsa's ex aka the biggest lesbian under the sun lol). After episode three, I'm pretty sure he's just a huge flirt with everyone regardless of gender, he just adjusts his particle use (and also his height!) accordingly to sweet-talk them all:

1) ว่าไงครับสุดหล่อ /waa ngai khrap soot laaw/ -> ครับ /khrap/ = typically-male polite ending particle 2) แต่คุณแอลคะ /dtaae khun Al kha/ -> คะ /kha/ = typically-female polite ending particle

And since he finger-guns his way into the student council room, I think we all know now that he's bi

"Filth-eating spirit"

ใครจะไปล่าแสงกระสือกับพี่ต้นบ้างครับ /khrai ja bpai laa saaeng gra seuu gap phi Ton baang khrap/

If that sounds familiar to you, you either know your Thai ghosts or you've seen this or other movies like it:

Inhuman Kiss or แสงกระสือ /saaeng gra seuu/, starring Minnie Phantira, Oab Oabnithi and Great Sapol

A Krasue is a type of evil spirit that possesses women and, when going out to hunt, leaves the body behind to be a floating head with internal organs still attached. It's translated as 'filth-eating' because a Krasue is cursed to feed on blood, organs, carrion etc. Ton calls the mysterious green light แสงกระสือ /saaeng gra seuu/ (=light of a Krasue) because sightings of a Krasue usually report them looking like a floating red or green orb. In that regard, they're comparable to will-o'-the-wisps!

#23.5 degrees #23.5 spoilers #thai gl #aylinluna #viewjune #view benyapa #june wanwimol #ford arun #aj chayapol #euro thanaset #inhuman kiss #local woman harps on about linguistics #if you're wondering why i keep spelling it Tin instead of how the subs do it- i refuse to adhere to the nonsense 'h' they put in there! #his name may have a silent h at the end (ติณห์) but that doesn't mean it's needed at all in the romanization and i stand by that 😤

[danandfuckingjonlmao]

niche ass post feel free to disregard:

as a linguistics nerd, it’s always fascinating to me how dan and phil both manage to mispronounce so many words but always in a different way to each other. like “consummate” in the most recent dapg vid? dan pronouncing it consjumate/consyoomate and phil pronouncing it conʃumate/conshewmate and neither of them acknowledging they said different words? adding a palatal approximate (/j/ or “ya”) i can excuse kind of but i cannot find a single instance of adding a postalvelar fricative (/ʃ/ or “sh”) being accepted pronunciation. oh to be a fly on the wall in the phouse getting to gather linguistic data on them, then making a corpus of phanology (phorpus, if you will) <3

#jk i would not want to be a fly on the wall in the phouse #if for whatever reason i was ever invited to the phouse i’d say no thank you #dnp #dan and phil #phan #lingblr #linguistics #phanology #convergence #at this point dan and phil use a pidgin version of english only they know #good for them my best friend (who is getting the same degree as phil did) also have our own pidgin #this was the least pretentious way i could write this post btw #be thankful i didn’t write consummate in ipa #i can in the tags i guess #dan: /kɒnsjumeɪt/ #phil: /kɔnʃʊmeɪt/ #that’s my transcription but i also can’t hear lmao so who knows #yeet my deenp #yeet my deet #international phonetic alphabet #ipa

[waitineedaname]

for some reason the intro to phonology and syntax classes for grad students are also the advanced phonology and syntax classes for undergrads, which means the professors are spouting off dense syntactical theory to undergrads who have already taken the intro class with them, meanwhile there's six of us grad students sitting to the side staring at each other like this

#linguistics blogging #no joke I literally made this face in syntax earlier #the professor was describing contiguity theory and drawing syntax trees I could NOT understand #and an undergrad asked her ''what does this mean for phi-boundaries'' or something like that #and I just looked over at my friends and made this face #only to discover they were all also looking bewildered and/or miserable #I'm so glad it's not just me #because I have literally never taken a phonology or syntax class #and I am SO out of my depth #we did the BARE basics of this stuff in my minor #and definitely no theory #so I have no fucking idea what's going on #luckily out of the six of us only two have an actual linguistics degree before this #the rest of us are pretty new to the field #so we are suffering together #i hate syntax and phonology. god. #these technical fields are NOT for me #this is why I'm a sociolinguist!!!!! #I am not interested in theories about how language works from an abstract perspective #I'm much more interested in WHY language behaves the way it does socially #like. I don't care about the phonological reasons for a particular sound feature #im more interested in the social context. does this sound carry prestige? is it stigmatized? how has the perception of it changed over time #I don't care about the theory behind why certain languages have developed grammatical rules for word order #I'm more interested in what happens when a dialect forms from a community with a different L1 #and how their ideas of word order affect their L2 dialect #you know? #the social and historical stuff is where I thrive #not this theory babble #like. the theory is important work. but it's not MY work.

[mustangs-flames]

About the “mimics understanding all languages thing,” can a mimic understand literal chicken scratch of handwriting /j

Also can they read Minecraft enchanting table XD

It requires the language to have actual structure - grammar, syntax, etc. - in order for a mimic to understand it. Therefore, in addition to real life languages, a mimic can potentially understand fictional languages like elven (LotR), Mando'a (Star Wars), and so on and so forth, as those languages are actually fully constructed and realised ones. Gibberish is still gibberish and holds no meaning to both humans and mimics as it lacks all of the components required for it to be linguistically meaningful. I hope that makes sense!

#hail true body #mustang answers! #htb mimics #look man. i have to use my joint honours linguistics degree for something #using it for htb is all i'm gonna get out of it i think lmfao

[hamable]

I’ve known about the Walrus vs Fairy debate for about 11 minutes now and I’ve never been more angry in my life you’re all wrong and I’m taking it personally.

#walrus vs fairy #fairy is more surprising. I’m this close to writing multiple paragraphs on why #walrus is an initial shock and then I’m delighted and varying degrees of concerned while I make some calls #i see a fairy?? I’m fucking elated and I’m fucking terrified and both emotions are ongoing. #if I can classify a hereto undiscovered creature as a fairy upon opening my door by my cultural idea of what a fairy is #then I’m fucking panicking #bc there 800 varying rules and laws about fairies and I cannot off the top of my head know which ones to trust #I’d be terrified to speak a word lest it be twisted on me. do I let it in my house? #is letting it in my house a favor? an insult? basic manners? #I wouldn’t say it’s my Roman Empire but once in a while I think about fairy rules and get stressed tf out #even saying shit like no thank you can get you in a world of trouble #if I open the door to a walrus that’s crazy but I would reasonably know what to do about it #I’m having three crises at once if I see a fairy and at least one of those crises is about linguistics

[jojotichakorn]

pavel has the most fascinating accent, i want to study it under a microscope

#it isn't really kiwi at all which you'd expect it to be cause he lived in aotearoa for like a decade #idek what exactly it is; it is like his personal special blend of different accents #i kinda have that except i still mostly sound standard american 😔 #anyway yeah still got that linguistics degree #archer speaks

[greentrickster]

Walks calmly up to the microphone: In order to mend what was broken and restore the balance that was lost when it was decided that brothels are the places to go for sex, I shall open a chain of restaurants called ‘Sexel’ that serve nothing but broth.

crowd: (bursts into wild, thunderous applause and cheers of approval)

#my thoughts #funny stuff #linguists and entymologists don't @ me I know this isn't how the words work #just let me have my silly little English degree and my silly little jokes

[lokh]

just remembered that one linguistics unit where i only did half the final assignment and handed it in like a week late and they still passed me for the unit

#i dont think i was on disability anymore at that point so they just really believed in me 😭😭😭😭 #to be fair i also remember doing an assignment for that class that i was REALLY proud of #and got good marks for. like lightbulb moment #so i guess it seemed like i knew what i was doing i just had Problems. #wait i might be mixing up two different classes. #anyways the reason i remembered this is becos i have a whole ass linguistics degree and i remember #precisely none of it <3 #ok either im mixing up two classes OR i did the same thing for both of them. #i actually would have handed it in 2 weeks later but. the tutor (professor?) emailed me #and said i Had to hand it whatever i had. hence why it was unfinished

[touchlikethesun]

it actually is so funny talking to non-linguists about prescriptivism. i say "there is nothing inherently more or less correct about any linguistic token," and they say "um yes there is, it's just called common sense," and so i have to say "what we call common sense is just ideology enforced from above, you've not actually proved anything," and then they say "well you're just stupid, i'm not listening to you." and they continue on their way harassing people for the way they speak. and i get to have this conversation all over again with the next non-linguist prescriptivist bootlicker :))

#i'm doing socio readings in between getting into arguments about linguistics online #but this happens irl too and it's so frustrating #i must have had this EXACT interaction a hundred times #linguistics #sociolinguistics #if anyone wants to have a chat about prescriptivism and standardisation i’m always down #just trust that unless you’ve also done a linguistics degree/readings i probably know more of the science

[griancraft]

He literally posted a video showing that it works. You should know, with your degree, how hard it is to translate the nuances of language EVEN WHEN YOU SPEAK BOTH LANGUAGES.

Like of course AI won’t be able to pick up the nuance in language, I can’t even do that and I speak three different languages!

To put it very simply. Translating the standard language by itself misses out on idioms and nuance that an actual speaker would pick up on. (A standard language is the “official” version of a language.) You pick up more than an AI or a non native speaker. You pick up less than someone who was immersed in the culture of a region for their entire lives or a period of their lives. Learning a language by itself does not lead to understanding idioms, dialects, or even cultural things overall inherently by itself because those understandings are gained through interpersonal connections. This can be national, regional, or even based within a family or group of friends.

I absolutely agree that varieties, dialects and nuance can be still hard to translate or interpreted by someone who speaks the same language. However, you will have the ability to have complex thought and understand an accent or interpret through context. Ai does not have that. I can, for example, understand someone from Newfoundland without too much difficulty if I listen. An Ai probably won’t be able to understand such a thick regional accent.

TLDR: a human who translates a language to another will be much much better than a machine. it’s more complicated than what you are presenting. I never said that translating nuance is easy between languages, just that it is far far far far far better than a machine.

#I never claimed to have a degree I’m studying socioanthropology and am taking linguistics as a required course.

[the-converse-high-top]

i think i may have completely fucked myself over. or its 11pm and im overexagerating.

#i want to do linguistics AND education #only problem is my school does not have an education degree #yay me who has to take “allied field” courses for the ling major #i dont want to do anything else except education at this moment #like i guess id be ok with anthro but like. #fuck dude i really like this school #and my friends #i fit in so well here i cant leave now

[twinknote]

also. i’m playing japanese duolingo like it’s a game. if u even care

#i’m kinda killing it out here #if anyone else uses duolingo hmu i wanna friend u #btw it’s illegal to call me cringe for this bc i’m simply linguist brain #i have a degree in russian and learning languages makes autism brain go brrrrr #also i just called it duwowingo and i fear i may never stop calling it that. send help

[incubus-puppy]

seriously considering reviving my mental health/psychology blog to do a little sociology/psychology probing about experiencing alterhumanity (in both kink and general life) and dissociation post-covid. im very 👀👀👀

#real shit #i was a linguistics/psych bachelors and i have plans to go back to get a higher psych degree #and honestly i have learned so much about the queer experience running this kink blog #idk if any of my freaks here like psychology but if you want that blog #i think I'm finally ready to even slightly link the two blogs #hezey talks

[waitineedaname]

@patron-saints tagged me in a "list five topics you can talk about for an hour without preparing any material" post!

I'm echoing what julianna said, the fact that the two of us called each other for six straight hours to talk about the untamed really says something lmao

outer wilds!! do not get me started on that game. oh my god. I will talk your ear off about it.

star wars, specifically how I think I could fix her

medieval literature, especially arthurian romances. I just think they're fun <3 gotta put that english degree to good use!

is it cheating to say the thing I am literally in grad school for? I could probably talk for hours about sociolinguistics since that is my academic niche lmao

I'll tag @gamergirlcrustacean, @puzzlehat, @buffintruder, @birbliophile, and @daychiie!

#thank you for tagging me!! #I have already proven that I am capable of talking about the untamed for hours lskdjflksdjf #I could probably spend a full hour just talking about the yunmeng trio #the only caveat to the outer wilds discussion is whether or not im giving spoilers #bc oh god spoiling that game is a crime #but also EVERYTHING IS SPOILERS #my sibling and i have had many conversations where we accidentally talked about star wars for several hours #specifically how much we want to fix that stupid franchise #and then literature + linguistics are the things i have degrees in lmao

[mustangs-flames]

Htb human characters ( + Alt!Ces and Adam bc yes ) but they're all stuck with Bri'ish accents for a day . How are they gonna handle it?

Dave to Alt!Ces : Oy there mate , not very noice to stab my nephew throgh that rebar , innit?

lmaoo

Um, I mean, when I'm writing I sometimes hear the characters talking in my accent/dialect which is West Midlands (not Birmingham, because Brum is different and the stereotypical Brummie accent people do as a joke isn't even Brummie, it's Dudley lmao) despite the fact I know what they actually sound like from canon TMC jhdjghdf. Idk if it comes through in my writing that much though as I try to not use idioms/expressions that are common in the UK - the amount of times I've had to google to check something a character was saying wasn't British is so fucking funny lmaoo

I think they'd do alright - there's actually a lot of cool places I use from here in the UK as inspiration for scenery and settings within htb au (especially when it comes to churches), so they wouldn't be too out of place in my mind if they suddenly had a variation of accents from the UK and Ireland lmao

If I had to pick dialects/accents for them though I'd go with-

Mark: West Midlands

Cesar: Southern English, specifically Brighton/Sussex

alt!Cesar: Same as Cesar

Thatcher: Irish, specifically Dublin

Dave: Also West Midlands, but I could also see him having a Derby accent, too

Ruth: I think it'd be fun if she had something like an East Anglia accent, maybe Norfolk!

Adam: Also Southern English, Brighton/Sussex

Sarah: West Midlands

Evelin: Welsh, specifically the middle area on the coast like Aberystwyth

Jonah: Welsh too, maybe also Aberystwyth, or a more southern area like Cardiff

#hail true body au #mustang answers! #sorry i have a linguistics degree and i'm very passionate about the dialects and accents of the uk and ireland #it's so interesting!! #and so is the etymology of it all too! #i tried to pick a variety outside of mark's family all sharing the same accent/dialect #anyway #i'll shut up now lmao