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#and i think in a way it predicted the ending of s4
jacketrepresents · 1 year
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liking a sad song and knowing in your heart of hearts there will be a kendall roy fancam set to it someday
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thefirstlioveyou · 2 months
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What will Mike and Will's S5 Fight Be About?
Shawn Levy basically confirme/implied another angsty Byler fight for S5.
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But, what will it be about? Some think it'll be about the painting, but personally, I don't think so at all. I believe the fight will be about Mike's internalized homophobia; Mike will be afraid to romantically be with Will and it hurts Will.
First off, I don't think Mike would be mad for him hiding his feelings or lying about the painting. The sole purpose of the painting lie is to open a gate way to Mike knowing how Will feels about him. It's a set up. Why would he be mad that it was Will who thought those amazing things about him? He's in love with Will.
Now, let's see the common traits that all Byler fights have:
miscommunication, but they both want the same thing
is about their relationship
mike projecting
happens pretty early on, episodes 3-4
triggered by a shift in their relationship/mike doing something
they are alone
It's pretty predictable that S5 will focus on Mike's feelings for Will and be in Will's position this time. He's gonna be a yearning, gay mess! However, it doesn't make sense to copy every little thing as that wouldn't bring anything new to the table. It would quite frankly feel lazy and boring.
I actually believe they will be honest about how they feel episodes 3-4 (after Mike discovers the truth about the painting, what would be the shift in their relationship), and it will be a very angsty scene rather than a happily-ever-after moment (for now). Here's how I picture it: Will wants a relationship with Mike, Mike wants one too, but he's reluctant to because of the shame and bit of denial still lingering.
As understanding as one can be in this situation, it's also hurtful to hear on the receiving end. I can imagine it makes Will very upset. After so long of waiting for Mike, waiting to see if his feelings could be reciprocated, he finally gets it but doesn't get to keep it because of the shame Mike feels. Will does indeed feel like a mistake for his sexuality but, as he also states, Mike makes him feel otherwise. So, if he heard the same person that makes him feel better for who he is, say he's wrong for being the same thing he is.... that would HURT Will terribly. In Will's eyes, he will truthfully believe Mike doesn't want him, even if in Mike's POV, he wants nothing more than Will. This is where the miscommunication comes in play.
This is a real thing that happens in many Queer relationships even to today, when one is ready and the other is not yet. There is no bad guy (unless cheating, abuse, etc is involved of course) in these type of situations. You can sympathize with both sides... Which makes this a perfect fight to watch as the audience; it wouldn't make you hate either of the characters.
Some people say Mike’s accepted his sexuality by the end of S4, but I feel like if he did, it wouldn’t really be a good set up for him to be Vecna’d in S5. His struggle with who he is and his relationship with El is crucial to S5. If we keep Mike struggling with his sexuality and his trauma regarding El, this gives a purpose for him to be Vecna'd, which is the perfect way to explain a lot of his character the past seasons. Similar to how Max escaped Vecna the first time, Mike would do something similar (with the help of others, of course). He will have to accept the mistakes he's made, accept past events that were out of his control and accept who he is, or let himself die. Rather than focus so much on saving others or being needed to others, he must save himself now, for himself. He has to finally believe he is the heart. Finally confronting and accepting what he can't change will bring his character and his relationships to a full circle. It would explain his dynamic with El and Will the whole series. He will finally have the self-confidence he lost.
As much as people want Byler to have an established relationship in S5, I don't think that's likely. With a fight already implied to happen again (most likely early on), it wouldn't make much sense? They're a slow burn on top of that... The season is building up to them being together, it's not them already together (at least I don't think so).
The writers can obviously find a different route, but I feel like this would work and fit well. It would save Mike's character perfectly and it connects with the Mike being vecna'd, or at least in danger, theories; It gives it more purpose.
I just can't really imagine what else the fight would be about. It has to be about their relationship and it has to be about it changing in some way. Mike's weird behavior still needs to be explained... so I would think the fight has to be connected to the reason for that behavior. The fight would then be about his internalized homophobia. And if it is, it has to be explicitly about it, not just subtext like S3 fight.
Rather than “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls” and insulting Will, Mike straight up will have to be like, “I’m scared, what if this is wrong? I don’t know how to do this.” “This isn’t right.” This time Mike will be direct how he feels about HIMSELF, but Will would still be hurt because this is the same guy that made him feel better for being Gay…
If this is how the fight plays out, lord hold me because I won’t survive it😭😭😭
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THE BEAR S3 Predictions
Just a mental note I'm putting out here to be able to revisit it when the time comes to check its level of accuracy. I have the feeling that S3 is going to be the season of the reconciliations.
The relationship between Richie and Carmy is completely broken after the walk-in incident and Richie walks from The Bear. He happens to get some kinda job offer and accepts it just to prove Carmy wrong. They will later spend a good portion of S3 trying to repair their bond. By the end of S3 (hopefully sooner) there should be a reconciliation of some sort between them and Richie should go back to The Bear.
Nat gives birth to her new "cub" and this brings the family together. There is a reconciliation with Donna, which in some capacity benefits not only the siblings but the entire team, the restaurant as a whole. Not exactly sure how this will play out, but Donna will quit being this negative and toxic influence on everyone. Maybe she gets clean because she takes this baby as a new chance to start over and be a better grandmother than the mother she was. IDK...
Marcus' mother dies and this juxtaposition of new beginnings, births, endings, death, etc is going to be a theme throughout the whole season, that is why I actually think this funeral will be the opener.
There will be some kinda flashback episode, like 7 Fishes or a montage of some memory that has a huge impact on one or more characters. I have my $ put on the Sundays, Mr. Adamu and lil Syd would spend at Mr. Beef's. I strongly disagree with the weak argument that just because the Berzattos are catholic, their restaurant didn't open on Sundays. The gastronomic industry cares very little about those traditions especially if the place is struggling. I bet they were open every Sunday part-time, just for lunch, to get all the demand of those who went to church just because business-wise it makes total sense.
Carmen will apologize to Claire. Not sure what she's gonna make of that apology, whether she's gonna accept it or not, I hope she doesn't. I'm pretty sure there will be no reconciliation here. I don't necessarily oppose Carmy having a romantic partner and as much as I ship SydCarmy like nobody's business, I'm 100% sure they are not gonna happen any time soon. Maybe and this is a HUGE maybe, they could be the perfect cliffhanger for S4. But that would be a stretch. Not that Store & Calo couldn't pull it off, but still. So, basically, I am all for a new love interest being presented to Carmen just to see how he responds to it. After Claire he should go back to his old lone-wolf ways, I need to test that behavioral theory though, so I need a new female character to do it.
Last, but certainly not least, Miss Adamu needs her man and I'm not talking about Bear. I want to know more about Sydney's past and see her letting her hair down, putting her records on, and all that jazz. So, maybe an old flame can re-appear in her life and they can try to "reconcile". This reconciliation shouldn't work either because she's now devoted to making The Bear work and is basically a workaholic and both, Carmy & her get into this synch of type As on Speed and Red Bull, non-stop working machines, well-oiled now that they had already learned from their mistakes and The Bear succeeds but Sydney's relationship with her guy from the past fails, again. The guy feels like a 3rd wheel and lets her know that she's not in a relationship with him but with her job. Sydney understands the subtext, and this break-up is actually a wake-up call for her. She starts seeing what we all shippers are already seeing. It's not just about work for her. Yes, The Bears are too absorbing and demanding, both, the restaurant and the chef, but she doesn't mind. She loves it. Love is the operative word here. This realization should hit her hard by the end of the season.
The background of all the things I just mentioned above will be the BOH, fast-paced, chaotic, and working like a Swiss clock, just like Carmy likes it.
Am I missing something? Probably. Can't wait to find out.
Bonus tracks: I am pretty sure the wedding will either be Teff's or Fak's.
And lastly: When Sydcarmy happens, it will "officially" start with something small and inane like Syd accidentally finding out Carm has been drawing portraits of her all along... CHECK THIS OUT, I think Storer & Calo have something like this in mind or along these lines, and it should come along in S3, minus the sex part.
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danvillecheese · 10 months
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the general audience versus the rest of us
this analysis is not to degrade anyone outside of or in the fandom, it’s simply to showcase how differently people remember phineas and ferb. there are a number of topics I will delve into, all of which are lovingly put into sections under the cut. so, with no further ado… enjoy!
how normal people watch it
so if you’re like me and watched pnf occasionally on tv growing up you’ll remember bits of the show. you’ll remember it’s repetitive and episodic nature, the way everything goes back to how it was at the start of the day. phineas and ferb think of something to do, candace attempts to bust them, perry fights doofenshmirtz, and doofs machine makes phineas and ferb’s invention disappear, sticking to the status quo of what linda typically sees. it’s predictable, but not in the sense that you necessarily know what’s going to happen. maybe you do, or something happens that subverts your expectations. the “typical phineas and ferb episode structure” (or TPNFES, I’m calling it that now) is how a lot of people who haven’t seen the show in a while will remember it. or maybe not. maybe they remember doof making an inator that does x. or they remember the aglet song (never forget ze aglet!). it’s typically something you’d have seen at least a couple of times during its original run.
and no, of course there’s no problem with only remembering one or two things about a show from your youth. I personally watched a lot of shows as a kid that I don’t remember a thing about. yeah I watched LazyTown when I was like four but if you asked me the plot of any episode I would NOT be able to tell you. and it’s because it wasn’t something I was really interested in. and of course, kids can be interested in shows and know a lot about them and then hit their teen years and not remember much about them later. but if they go back and absorb that content again? they see stuff they missed the first time, or stuff they definitly remember. hell, they might even sing along to A.G.L.E.T. because as everyone knows, pnf lyrics stay with you forever. (even if you haven’t heard the theme song in a decade you won’t forget the lyrics. that shit is hardwired into you from the moment you first see it.)
my point is, a casual viewer doesn’t do anything more than just… watch the show. hell, sometimes they don’t even watch it, they’ll have it on in the background while they’re on their phone or doing something else (couldn’t be me!!). watching the canon content just once gives them the satisfaction of starting and ending the show. they don’t go into detail about it. they probably won’t open an ao3 tab the moment the last episode finishes. they won’t make a tumblr sideblog dedicated to understanding the intricacies of character arcs, their goals and ideals and how they interact with others. they don’t care enough to do that bc it doesn’t make their brain go insane for more knowledge about the show. and as strange as it sounds, they don’t have it on their minds for that long. yeah, maybe theyll think about how nice the songs were in that s4 finale but after that, that’s it. they’ll move onto something else.
how I watched it
I watched phineas and ferb as a kid. I’m pretty sure I watched it when it first aired, too. perhaps not in 2007, it might have been the year after when it actually started premiering (nz airing is so far behind it’s not even funny). I watched it as it aired, and then grew out of it around the middle of s3. I got a little older, started watching different shows, and I was just generally doing other stuff. I have a vivid memory from 2012 when a kid from my class told me that pnf wasn’t worth watching bc the same thing happens every episode and my socially inept ass went “omg ur so right” and I stopped watching it. fast forward a couple of years and I hear that the show is like, actually finally ending. idk why but I remember it being in 2014, not 2015 when it actually did air (the pnf wiki doesn’t have the date for the nz airing of last day of summer so I guess we'll never know if it aired early or not) but I watched it and kinda just carried on with my other interests at the time.
around 2017, I start talking to an internet friend from the same country as me. we talked about our upbringings and stuff we used to watch on tv, and she brings up phineas and ferb. aha! I know that one! it encourages me to rewatch the show and before I know it, I’m shoulder deep. i mention facts about it to real life friends and family (“there’s a pnf episode where…”) and I go hunting for interviews and comic-con panels with the whole cast on youtube. you know how it is. I start going through the posts on tumblr and I find a sibling show of sorts – one that also has a crossover planned for 2018. I watch that show. I lurk in the shadows of the tumblr tag for a while. I start writing fic. I draw the characters on any piece of paper I can get my hands on.
it all comes to a head in october 2018, when I wrote a phinjeet fic called cappuccino, and one of my favourite artists EVER made fanart of it. and obviously, I had to put it somewhere. I’d thought about making a dwampy sideblog for ages and had no idea what to call it or anything, but this was all the encouragement I needed. I made the sideblog. I reblog the art. then I went through my likes and got some of the pnf/mml posts out. fast forward almost five years, and here we are. still just as insane, just with a new username.
in short — no, my experience watching pnf is not one of those typical of a general audience member. I mean, it would have been, if not for that fateful conversation with my internet friend that basically rebooted me and quite literally rewired my brain to be insane about this cartoon universe. I’m not by any means a casual viewer of this show. I know more than an average person would about it, but I wouldn’t have it any other way. I adore this little community of ours. and being able to crack out of context jokes that come from the shows to older people who I know have never seen it, well, it’s a cherry on top.
both the GA and the fandom contribute to the culture staying alive
there’s certainly a way that the general audience keeps pnf alive, even if they have no idea they’re doing it. they’ll make very generic memes about it (you know the ones I’m talking about) and they’ll circulate the internet for a bit, reminding everyone about the show they watched casually as a kid. us, on the other hand, make very very niche memes about it. like hieroglyphics. and combovers. (see what I did there?) ours tend to stay in our little circulation, minus the ones that break containment. you get it in any fandom though, it’s certainly not limited to us.
as many times as you’ll see the posts that attempt to explain the ‘doof is phineas dad theory’, you’ll see just as many responses debunking it. or seeing dan and swampy debunk it, as they should. (honestly I think we need like crystal fucking clear evidence in the reboot to explain it otherwise it’s just gonna keep happening.)
the circulation of phineas and ferb itself through any means, be it memes or actual conversation that prompts a rewatch or even just a memory of the show, keeps the show relevant. I think one of the more notable ways this has happened is dan povenmire getting tiktok famous and basically reminding every older gen z kid about the show. to quote jeff swampy marsh – “plus there’s always reruns so the show will never die” – sure, disney channel itself barely exists anymore but reruns can also kinda be translated into disney+ rewatches or even just the passage of a meme on the internet.
phineas and ferb has stayed, somewhat, consistently relevant. I mean, think about it. since pnf started airing, there hasn’t been a year (except for 2021) where nothing has happened. pnf aired from 2007-2015, milo murphy’s law aired from 2016-2019 (which includes phineas and ferb characters so I count it as pnf content) and catu came out in 2020. dan’s own show hamster and gretel started airing in 2022, and based on the poster, I don’t think we’ll be missing any phineas and ferb characters at all. dan basically confirmed it. and truly, it’s what keeps the show alive, even when it’s not really there.
things in the show that the ga have very different opinions on, re:
candace and jeremy’s relationship
something the general audience haven’t caught up with yet is the way that candace and jeremy interact within the show. sure, if you haven’t watched it since you were 10 then you probably remember candace being like insane and loud about the boy she’s obsessed with. if you watch it again, you’ll see that jeremy is almost just as bad. it’s just downplayed because he’s not a main character. we don’t see his perspective NEARLY as much as we see candace’s, which might make it seem a bit more one sided or unrequited than it actually is.
in the episode “backyard aquarium” from early s2, we’re shown a montage of both candace and jeremy trying to ring each other for a whole day, until candace goes to bust her brothers and forgets about her phone for a little moment. this gives jeremy time to leave eleven messages for her. obsessed much? (it’s actually kinda sweet) and yeah, they’re teenagers. every feeling seems way more amplified than it actually is so both of them getting upset that they cant contact each other is pretty realistic, even if it is just played for laughs.
there’s a lot of really thorough characterisation when it comes to both of them. mostly with candace, obviously, she is THEE main character of the show so clearly she’s deep and very fleshed out. we don’t see it as much with jeremy but we get pretty good glimpses of it when it’s shown. he’s got the picture of her from “the bully code” in his guitar case. he likes her so much! he put her picture in the place he keeps one of his favourite things!! he’s down so bad for her! but of course, if you don’t actually pay attention or care especially about any of that stuff, you’re going to miss it and generalise about it. and it unfortunately applies to quite a few things in the show. sigh.
doof’s relationship with his parents
for real, fuck those guys. I think the ga are pretty aware of this part, and if you asked anyone to say what one of doofs backstories are they’d probably say “his parents didn’t show up for his birth!” or “he was a lawn gnome!”. both of which are specifically tied to his abhorrent relationship with his parents. but what they potentially don’t remember is how he still tries to gain their affections anyways. it’s the classic trope of not being able to cut off your abusers simply because you just can’t, morally. you still want to prove yourself to them and make them see you’re worth having around even if they never liked you in the first place. heinz tries very hard both in his youth and in the show itself to gain affection from both his mother and father. these include:
the teddy bear and trying to be good at kickball (thaddeus and thor)
the original gnome (fathers day)
even the fucking clip show episode from the end of season 3 (this is your backstory) where his mother comes back and he goes in for a hug and is instead greeted with a smack. hmm.
even just those examples are enough evidence that yes, heinz did actually really try with his parents even if they didn’t care. and again, it’s unfortunately played for laughs that heinz is constantly beaten down by almost everything around him but as we know, he gets a real family at the end of the show and things seem to work out well for him. does he get closure with both of his parents by the end of s4? maybe not his mother, but sort of with his dad. and yeah, maybe they’ll get into that in the reboot. but it’s definitely something the ga never noticed. it’s always about laughing at his tragic backstories, even if that is the point of them, not necessarily feeling bad for him and wanting to see him come full circle with everything that’s happened to him. and it does!
isabella and her one (1) personality trait
according to the ga, isabella garcia-shapiro is a one dimensional character who’s only personality trait is having tunnel vision heart eyes for the boy across the street. is your blood boiling yet? mine is! isabella is one of the most fleshed out characters in the show, with a large family and interests outside of phineas. hell, she’s the leader of her fireside girls troop which is a huge part of her personality. she’s brave and strong and gives ominous patch related threats to a man almost five times her age. but no, the general audience will only ever see isabella as the girl obsessed with phineas. I’m not discrediting this at all because yes, she’s obsessed with him. she’s a simp. definitely nothing wrong with that at all! but the ga claiming that it’s her only personality trait? get fucking REAL this girl is deep and gets upset and anxious and emotional about things that have nothing to do with the boy she’s in love with. even if it does have something to do with that, she carries on anyway because she’s strong as hell. it’s not the first time a character has been like that on disney channel — I mean, kim possible was pretty boy crazy but her crime fighting always came first, right? (really showing my age with that reference. wow) and I hate to reference act your age bc it’s vile but she doesn’t only ever spend her time moping over phineas as a teenager, she keeps herself busy and helps her mom at the restaurant and is an RA at her college and does a whole heap of other things! she’s multifaceted and it’s what makes her a really compelling character to watch. and watering her down into just the girl who likes phineas is a huge discredit to her character.
so, where am I going with this?
I’m not saying ever general audience member has to rewatch phineas and ferb a million times to understand every single character arc. hell, I’m not even saying that they have to rewatch it at all. there’s such a huge divide when it comes to it, and obviously not everyone is going to experience everything the same way. a lot of people simply don’t care enough to crack open the psyche of every phineas and ferb character to understand their motivations. that’s just the freaks (affectionate) who roam on tumblr, eager for media analysis of a childrens cartoon that ended almost a decade ago.
for a lot of us, it’s very satisfying to be able to analyse specific media. there’s writers and storyboard artists that put all that stuff in the show for a reason, right? it makes us want to see parallels and understand where a characters moral alignment sits and why exactly buford speaks latin. and for others, they’ll simply watch a show and move on. there’s no need for them for it to be on their brain 24/7.
overall, there’s a stark difference in the way people watch a show as iconic and culturally significant as phineas and ferb. the general audience watches it very differently to us, and that’s okay! it happens with any piece of media. there’s casual fans that watch something once and then the very not casual fans who have it on the brain constantly. and then there’s fans that have been very absorbed in the fandom and move on, which again, you’ll get anywhere. nothing about the dwampyverse fandom is limited to us, in terms of the way things go (not the source media itself. name one other show that has anything REMOTELY similar to pnf happen in it.) most people know the show, and most people don’t know about the insane and obscure facts about it, and I think it’s fantastic.
goodnight tri-state area. thank you.
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Good Omens Fic Rec: Omens On Baker Street (Good Omens/BBC Sherlock Crossover Series)
The Ineffable Game Sherlock and John are no longer the only crime-solving disaster duo in London. After Sherlock unknowingly wrongs a demon, he finds himself with two mysterious rivals in the detective scene. For Crowley and Aziraphale, it's just a bit of fun, but they end up learning more about human nature than they bargained for. London Falling It’s time to start reconnecting. It's been a long time since John and Sherlock first came face-to-face with the supernatural. Crowley and Aziraphale now spend their days bickering in the South Downs instead of London. Life seemed to be getting back to normal... Unfortunately, 'normal' is only a relative term. Welcome Home Tulip arrives in the South Downs, and finds that starting a new life isn’t as easy as she first thought. Luckily, she now has a family to fall back on.
Length: 155,306 words (full series)
AO3 Rating: Not Rated (but basically PG13)
Best for: Pick-Me-Up, Safe in Public, Comedy
Triggers: Brief Violence
Read it here, series by WorseOmens
Personal Rant: I've been ignoring this one for months. I'm sure I'll bring it up plenty, but BBC Sherlock was my life 10 years ago. Reviewing fics on fuckyeahjohnlockfanfic was such a joy and I have so much fondness and nostalgia for that part of my past. Good Omens is the first time I've engaged in fandom at all since then. I was betrayed by Season 4, I had lost my love for fan spaces, tumblr was emptying. I moved on. But the day I finished Good Omens season two I dived headfirst back into this world. It's been nonstop every day since then for me. I started reading 2-3 fics a DAY again. I kept thinking how insane it would be to start reviewing again. But this series? Idk, I didn't think I wanted to engage with Sherlock again. I thought it'd be too weird, maybe too cringe to indulge in something I thought I "grew out" of. But since I've been working on this new review blog I thought it was time. And oh my god I can't tell you how good this felt. I feel like my Moffat induced heartbreak is starting to heal. So enough about me, let's talk about this series.
*Minor Spoilers* I'll let you guys find out for yourselves just how it happens, but let's say eventually Sherlock and John team up with Aziraphale and Crowley. The first series is set just after the Apocalypse-that-wasn't, and in Sherlock canon in between S1 and S2. The second installment is set post S4 of Sherlock. I am overwhelmed by how much I enjoyed this series. I had assumed I knew how this would go. I thought it was going to be a predictable checklist of crossover tropes. My eyes were practically rolling before I gave this a chance. I wanted to hate it, maybe to prove that I was totally over my past love of Sherlock. But its good. It's entertaining, it's surprising, it's funny, it makes sense.
This is mostly a Good Omens story. If you were never that into Sherlock you'll mostly be able to follow along fine, but I'm not sure the opposite is true. Crowley and Aziraphale are sickeningly in love, and I ate it up. Their relationship is established by the time this starts, but it's been maybe a year (?) since the Notcalypse. John and Sherlock are firmly in their canon of "I'm not his date". I can't spoil it for you, you'll have to see yourself, but how John reacts to Aziraphale just took me out. I was shocked. I had to walk around for a bit. It was unexpected, bold, I wanted to hate it and I loved it. It shouldn't have made sense! Moving on before I spoil...I just can't believe that this series took all the assumptions I had about the rapport between all of them and just chucked them out. Characterizations are all amazing, though I feel Sherlock's presence was a little quiet at times. I feel like he should have noticed more was off sooner than he does. But that can all be explained by supernatural interference so I don't really care too much. This plays with Sherlock canon in such a way that's just like, oh totally that actually makes perfect sense. And it's so smart to skip over past plot lines that it knows we're familiar with. We don't need to go over scenes we all have ingrained in our memories, let's enjoy the story happening right now. And it handles S4 so well. The thing that ruined Sherlock for a lot of people. It's not waved away, but just moved on from and brings Rosie into the second series.
I could spend days in this combined universe. I love the banter between Crowley and Aziraphale. They’re also very Gomez and Morticia here. Very secure in their relationship and madly in love. Extremely possessive Crowley, so expect some fun moments with that. Protective of each other, but also have complete trust in the other’s ability. I love their clumsy half hearted attempts at being human and that it completely goes over everyone's heads. Come on Sherlock! Cosmo and Wanda aint slick!! It's fun and silly. It's the kind of fanfic that makes your cheeks hurt from smiling too much. But it's not shallow. It has some excellent insight. Even though Sherlock and John are not the stars here, they still get their moments to shine. In the second installment there is a line about their bond being foraged not in the danger of their lives but in the quiet and gentle in-between and I wanted to cry. It was so healing for my broken Johnlock heart.
This post is much too long already. If you are a fan of both series, just do me a solid and read it. I just know you'll like it. Embrace the silly, warm your heart with the rest, and enjoy it. It's completely safe for public, but it was incredibly annoying to have to keep walking away from it. My next read will be at home, and very soon.
Read it here, series by WorseOmens
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eddiezpaghetti · 3 months
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going off of your BEAUTIFULLY worded post(s) about byler being inevitable and treating queer characters with respect, do you think they will explore byler's sexuality with a sex scene or just keep it to a kiss? Or perhaps another kind of scene?
Honestly...I don't feel like a sex scene is likely? Not because they're too young or anything. There have been sex scenes between people Will and Mike's age on the show before--thank you Steve and Nancy--so that wouldn't be the issue. Nor do I think it would be an issue with them being a queer couple.
My prediction--and I could be wrong; this kind of depends on how the rest of the season goes with regards to the main action plot--is that Will and Mike are going to get together at a climactic moment. Maybe leading up to the final clash or during it. And sex scenes really need time to breathe. Steve and Nancy had sex at the beginning of Season 1. Jonathan and Nancy had sex in the middle of Season 2. They had time.
But I think, if the writers waited until the final season of the show to make this couple canon, it's because it's important. Not a romantic subplot, but plot. I think, in some way or another, the romantic plot and the action plot are going to be intertwined, and they're going to climax together. You know, like they're having SE-- There'd just be no comfortable place to fit a sex scene at the height of the action. Like, imagine trying to fit a Lumax sex scene when they're in the attic at the end of Season 4. It just doesn't go there. They got the cute little doodle scene instead.
I very much think Mike and Will are going to kiss, though. I'd be shocked if they didn't.
So basically what I'm saying is...I feel like Byler is going to be too important for a sex scene to happen. I could see a scene early on portraying some sort of sexuality, particularly from Mike's side, to show to the general audience that something is happening, that it's not just one-sided. For instance maybe they'd have to change clothes in the same room for some reason, a la Joyce and Hopper in S4, and Mike would look just a little too long before turning around. But a full-blown sex scene...probably not?
The more specific stuff like this gets, of course, the harder it is to predict, so I'm a little less certain about this prediction than Byler simply being canon, but, yeah, gun to my head? Kiss, absolutely. Sex, probably not.
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carlos-in-glasses · 1 month
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I predict something a bit different. They won't follow through the plots from S4 because the S4 ended with everyone accepting bad things happen and they'll be okay. Or what was the point of ending the season like that? I think Carlos is going to stay a cop. If anything happens from S4 it will be about Owen and Robert. S5 will be all new noise.
I'm pretty sure Ronen is on record saying the Gabriel thing will bring drama to Tarlos...and people around them? If I remember right? So I'm not sure about this, I'm afraid ❤️ (But then...was he speaking from having inside info at that point, or from his own predictions?) I do think it would be odd, even by the show's standards, to drop the Gabriel-murder story in particular. There's so much meat there. They could practically base the whole season around solving that mystery if they were so inclined. I think it would be missing a trick to abandon it. But I thought it would be missing a trick to kill Gabriel off in the first place, so...
Having said that, I don't like the thought of the show undoing the conversation between Owen and Carlos in the kitchen. I don't like the thought of Carlos' happiness at the wedding/honeymoon becoming void. We see him experiencing happiness even if he never knows what happened. So in that sense, your prediction gives me a bit of cosy hope that Carlos will be doing okay when the season opens rather than on the lam or something.
Either way it will be very interesting to see what threads they pick up or don't!
Look at him 😭:
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ev-belknap · 10 months
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Wwdits s5 predictions, here we go!
(These are partly based on the trailer and the comic con panel, so skip accordingly)
- Guillermo and Laszlo bonding. While Guillermo definitely went from bodyguard to family in the last season, there’s still a lot of work to be done between these two, and I am here for it.
- Additionally, Guillermo and Colin bonding? Beginning of s3 Colin was still all ‘I don’t care about Guillermo’, in practically the same breath as his ‘nature vs nurture’ remark, which then came to play in s4. Maybe being raised by Guillermo changed something?
- following all this: Guillermo getting acknowledged as a full family member. (Please the boy deserves it)
- Nandermo hug. I don’t think we’ll get romantic affection yet, but a Nandor initiated hug? Hell yes. Bonus points if it is a comforting hug.
- they will find Guillermo cannot be turned in a conventional way, but they will then find an unconventional way. There’s still two wishes, so maybe that, but I’m here for the Guide casually reading from a Helsing book going ‘oh yes one single vampire isn’t going to cut it’ and they end up making it a family event ceremony thing. (Which would be amazing because then his entire family would be his Sire and also they had that silly ‘we have decided we won’t kill you’ ceremony and Nadja went ‘at least for now’ and I am HERE for symmetry moments I go feral over them)
- Guillermo and Nandor fight, but make it back to back against a common enemy. (I need this ok)
- Nandor happy moments. Guy’s been through the emotional wringer last season, and yes, this was mostly his own fault, but he is learning (at a snails pace but still)
- I am going to need Nadja to hit on a woman please and thank you.
- So how are we feeling about getting a new familiar in eventually? That shopping girl was wearing a very interesting T-shirt 👀
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markantonys · 4 months
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Idk if you saw the Josha Collider interview but he kinda hints we might get some Randlayne in s3? Which I am curious about that cause I didn't think they'd have time. Also that the Randfear relationship will continue where it left off and get even more complicated (which is very much their Shadow Rising dynamic)
i'm gobbling up these randlayne crumbs!!
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but he keeps it very vague here and i don't think there's anything too surprising in what he says - the fact that the show took the time to signal randlayne in 2x08 definitely implies to me that they plan to follow up on it in SOME way in season 3, and given that daniel was already talking about having filmed some lanaeve scenes way back in june which according to the block filming schedule would probably mean those scenes are somewhere in the first block (eps 1&2), i think we can pretty safely assume that the tanchico & waste travel groups won't split up right away, and that we'll see rand and elayne interacting early in the season.
now, that doesn't necessarily mean they're going to be making out all over falme or declaring their love for each other already! "a gradual thing which needs to be organic" definitely makes me feel pretty good about my prior randlayne guess, which is that they'll be getting to know each other and building a connection early in s3 and laying that groundwork for romance, but nothing explicitly romantic will happen between them before they split up for their respective journeys. because they wouldn't have included that Moment between them in 2x08 if they didn't intend to build upon it pretty promptly at the start of season 3, so we've got to be seeing SOMETHING more on the randlayne front, but i don't think it will be anything huge. and what josha says here supports both parts of that prediction, i think! his comments on rand's headspace at the start of s3 also make me think it's unlikely rand will be jumping straight into brand-new romance during the first episode block, and since we know tanchico & the waste are both in, i don't think rand would see elayne again until the second half of s3 at the earliest and perhaps not until s4 (in person, anyway; further randlayne development through TAR chats is not outside the realm of possibility!)
and of course, avirand isn't something josha would be hinting at even a tiny bit in interviews since it's way too much of a spoiler, given that the two of them haven't even met yet, so randlayne being the s3 romance he's discussing doesn't mean avirand won't sneak in there and end up happening first! but all this being said, i am always ready for the show to surprise me and prove me totally wrong haha
and he made intriguing comments about randfear too, like you say!
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in a couple of today's other interviews he said he wants randfear endgame djkjfg i'd have a shipping war with him about that, but i love how much he's loving digging into this relationship! lanfear positioning herself as ~the only one who understands him~ despite him being surrounded by his friends definitely sets up some toxic shit and i can't wait to see where that goes in s3. i love Mess!!
(..................i'm saying nothing about book!min positioning herself as ~the only one who understands him~. nothing at all!)
wait a moment. literally right here josha says rand is with his friends at the start of season 3, so that pretty much confirms we'll be starting off with the gang all still together!!!!!! (of course, he could mean just that he's with mat & egwene en route to the waste, but given daniel's confirmation of lanaeve scenes, i think at this point we can feel very very confident in seeing the whole gang still together at the start of the season)
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suchawrathfullamb · 4 months
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Hi Dear 🤗 so I was talking with my friend who is a big fan of the book Hannibal! But ahe also loves the show equally . We were sharing our headcanons and I asked her what she thinks the continued seasons will look like then she pointed out that after s3 ended Bryan used to say that S4 could contain something "from novel *Hannibal* that has not been done in any of the adaptations" and when I asked her what she thinks as she has read the books , she told me about the brainwashing part where Hannibal brainwashes Clarice. Do you think Hannibal can do that to Will ? Personally I would not like that.
I think he already did that in s1, in a way, I think that was their version of this! It wouldn't be as unexpected if they just did that again, yk? I don't think Bryan likes to be repetitive, also. He was very fast paced and surprising when it came to the plot of each season. It's actually really funny to read old reddit threads from the time the show was on, cause people didn't predict anything at all, they were constantly wrong about the direction it would take haha.
I'm not sure, at all, what that would be, unfortunately. There's a lot of things that haven't been adapted yet so, I have no clue, if anyone has ideas, let us know!
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general-klumpp · 8 months
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DuckTales THEORY: 'New Scroogea' Cliffhanger (S4+)
TLDR:
S3 cliffhanger: discovery of unseen continent, New Scroogea
Whether inhabited by Scrooge wannabees, clones or stans, Webby WILL play a part to bring them together, Donald tagalong
Ma Beagle and Rockerduck are almost certainly the main villains
Ending might seem a bit lackluster and must pave way to S5
If they went this far, S5 would have May and June as the main protagonists while tackling the multiverse.
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Hello Duckblr! Although I'm currently working on my own take on a hypothetical Season 4 of DuckTales, I just found out a strange tidbit of information from the artbook. Combine that with already existing speculation online and I have a nearly perfect picture.
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Courtesy of violetganache42, That's right. Had DuckTales not been canceled, the cliffhanger would be the discovery of an unseen continent known as New Scroogea. It's been speculated that this could be the location the cast could have originally been planned to fall into.
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The question is...what is New Scroogea?? Some believe it's a place where everyone dresses up or acts like Scrooge. Some believe Scrooge will colonise the place. Some believe it's a place where its inhabitants idolise Scrooge. Some even believe it was the result of F.O.W.L. dumping treasures, which could substantiate the defeat of Bradford.
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Since it's a common word now that S4 was planned to be Webby's season, she could fit the plot with a few of these examples with New Scroogea inhabitants in mind. Scrooge wannabees, or dopplegangers? Webby can help them while solving an internal conflict within Scrooge, seeing that she, May, and June represent his troublesome side. Scrooge stans? Webby can teach them the proper way to follow in his footsteps. Scrooge colonises? Webby gets Hortense for a word or two about ethics. Donald is 100% our adult protagonist because he has May and June.
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While we now understand how Webby will fit as the main protagonist, what about the villains? A better question is, what two villains know about owning a new land, and who may be of interest in taking over a new continent? That's right, Ma Beagle and Rockerduck! Ma Beagle makes perfect sense as there was a comic, 'His Majesty, McDuck' which involved the Beagle Boys trying to take over Killmotor Hill which was declared as a separate country from America. Also, Beagleburg and the fact that she never got her season. Rockerduck because we need to see Rockerduck Estates and there was this gift made for John Hodgman depicting him as a lawyer, perfect to defend Ma Beagle. Other than that...maybe there'd even be a New Scroogean gone rogue...
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So...how would the New Scroogea plotline end? I'll be brutally honest, (it's not sour grapes because I found out about this after I started DuckTales MMM) I don't really like it. Why? Because it would destroy all this foreshadowing made earlier teasing us about more important ideas. Poe De Spell? Waddlemeyer? Negaduck? What about characters who need to find a new purpose or peace such as Magica, Manny, Gizmoduck, etc? Unless New Scroogea was kinda affected by the Ramrod or something, I believe these ideas would have to be pushed aside for a fifth season, giving it a lackluster or predictable ending where the New Scroogeans just laugh or swim in gold or something... Considering they had at least 87 more ideas in mind, a fifth season would tackle May and June's pursuit of a social network while going into the multiverse plot teased by the Darkwing characters.
So...yeah...what do y'all think?
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skayafair · 2 months
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John, Lies and Trust, and the Dark World Pt.3
Part 2
The Deal
Kayne mentions that John finally called him only when he sank lower than ever. I don't want to imagine the state he was in. I want to hide in the corner and never think of it again. Now, the deal impacts a lot of s3 and 4, and we still don't know all the details about it, so I'll lay out only the facts first and my assumptions later.
Facts:
Getting Arthur to touch the grey stone wasn't the only condition. Kayne had John do some other things, horrendous by the sound of it.
Not telling Arthur anything about the deal was one of its conditions. I know it sounds sort of vague when Kayne and John talk about it, but after relistening I'm sure it was one.
It is unknown what the punishment would have been if John broke the deal, or even if there was supposed to be one.
It is also unknown whether Kayne said (or John asked) anything about what would happen after Arthur touches the stone and how safe it was.
Assumptions:
Kayne says John had a choice whether to tell about the deal or not and compares it to Matthew's. Which makes me think that if John broke the deal he would have ended up back in the Dark World OR Arthur could die since John can't.
I bet Kayne left A LOT up to John's interpretation because it's "more fun" this way. A vague deal is always a bad one, but I believe John was in no condition to think things through. One - we know for a fact it was very bad, two - Kayne didn't give Arthur much time to consider their deal, so I don't have any reasons to believe he'd be more generous with John.
The part when my "he did all of that but I don't care set him free" attitude towards John comes up: I believe John didn't know if touching the stone would be safe or put them in danger. Or put Arthur in danger... but what I also believe is that John held onto the thought that They Will Be Together. And they've already beaten unimaginable odds together multiple times, so they'll manage somehow. Cross this bridge when they get to it. In any case any danger to Arthur means danger to John as well, so he's very much interested in keeping his friend and host safe, both from genuine care and the will to live. But John couldn't know if it's safe, and by the sound of it Kayne didn't tell him. Didn't warn if it was dangerous either, though. But since John was in a very bad place both mentally and actually, and he wants to live, he chose to bet their lives on this deal. Hoping it'll be alright because the alternative was too unbearable. "Possible problems in some distant future" sounded almost meaningless compared to "suffering here and now". This noticeably weighted on him throughout the s4 finale - he was talking as if convincing Arthur it was ok and they'll get out alive, but he was actually trying his damnest to convince himself. Because they were so close to the goal! It's one thing to have doubts when the salvation is barely hovering there sometime in the future, and totally another when it's already almost within one's grasp. So yeah it's ugly. There's no way to sugar coat this. He was in a survival mode. It's bad anyway, but... I can understand this. Can judge from the moral perspective but not condemn from the personal one.
I'd also like to note that Kayne's idea of a "choice" is fucked up. I mean that's a given but still. A person held at a gunpoint also has "a choice", but it's beyond normal moral limits. It's a dire situation and no one can predict how they would act in it. Kayne I hate you. Even so, John NEARLY spilled the truth multiple times, barely biting it back at the very last moment. I have many reasons to believe he genuinely cares for Arthur, and this is one of them. Choosing between his friend's trust & life (possibly) - and endless suffering & imprisonment in the Dark World, the greatest fear, he nearly chose Arthur more than once. Lastly, there IS one thing supporting the idea that the stone wouldn't have damaged Arthur irrepairably, at the very least. It's Kayne's idea, and Kayne's interested in the show to go on. He may meddle with their lives moderately, but won't lead Arthur to the certain death on purpose. So John had reasons to believe it was somewhat safe.
I'll add that I wouldn't be surprised if Kayne sneered about putting John and Arthur's trust to the test, and the fact that John valued his life more than it. Knowing full well how John would feel about it, how he hates to lie, and enjoying the effect - it's a lasting one, after all, because John either suffers in the Dark World or while lying to Arthur. There was no good choice.
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herasyndlla · 8 months
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with ahsoka coming out next week, i want to toot my own horn and say: hey guys, i wrote some pretty good rebels fic back in the day and i think y'all should go back and read them and share your thoughts about them 😘
here's some of my favourite fic that i wrote that i'm very proud of and want you guys to enjoy (again or for the first time). they aren't in any order here but if you ask i will tell you which is my favourite
• through all the years rating: teen relationship: kanan/hera season: pre show through s3
A decade is a long time to know someone. By the end of it, it would be easy to assume these two have been perfectly in sync with each other, never missing a beat. But that's not how relationships work. Kanan and Hera worked at theirs, bumps and stops and leaps forward all included. Though all the years it took to get to now, they worked and loved and hoped for even more years to come.
• the old days rating: gen relationship: ahsoka and kanan season: pre show and s2
After fighting the Inquisitors on Takobo, Ahsoka takes Kanan to assess where he's at with his lightsaber skills. But a flood of memories from a forgotten life hang over Kanan and distracting him from their training.
• for years rating: gen relationship: ezra and kanan season: s1-4
They had only been given four years together. But, without knowing it, they had filled those four years, only four, with lessons, memories, trials and errors, success and growth, and love that could last past a life time. And even when it ends, they find a way. It was only four years but it had made both their lives worth living.
• understanding rating: gen relationship: ezra and sabine season: s3
A few days after returning from Tatooine, Ezra finds himself a little off balance. Avoiding all the chaos around the base as the rebels prepare for their attack to free Lothal finally, Ezra goes and seeks a little comfort from Sabine.
• how rare and beautiful it truly is that we exist rating: teen/mature relationship: kanan/hera season: s4 to post show
What do you do when your life completely changes? How do you decide what to do next? And what if it happens again? Hera used to keep up with the galaxy spinning around her, all her plans laid out in the fashion she needed them to be. But after Kanan returns from Mandalore, there's a shift she couldn't have predicted. How do you keep up with changes that come faster with every breath taken?
• a home we chose rating: gen relationship: ezra and kanan season: post show
A decade after liberating Lothal, Ezra comes and goes from his home world. There's a whole galaxy out there to learn from, to protect, to live in. But he always returns home, how could he not after everything he did to save it. This time, his return home offers a revelation about who was from here and just what that meant.
• how long will i love rating: explicit relationship: kanan/hera season: s4
Everything changed after Kanan came back from Mandalore. And it kept changing.
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k-s-morgan · 1 year
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Hii I am new to the Hannibal fandom and I think u understand the show and the actors and Bryan alot . But there are some things that are worrying me . I read about Ur speculation of Hannibal s4 and I agree with it even tho it's almost impossible now to get a season but my mind can't find peace if I don't get some answers so I hope u won't mind me asking you about your thoughts and what the plot will be for S5 as Bryan wanted to include sotl and what he means by Will being "happy" only in s5.
Will he Leave Hannibal or something??
Hello! Welcome to the fandom!)) Now, what I think makes sense and what Bryan could have planned might be different things, but if to combine them... first, here are my predictions for the potential S4 in case someone is interested and hasn't seen them.
According to Bryan’s words ever since the show ended, this is what had to be present:
1) Will being behind the veil with Hannibal, firmly turning away from the ‘light’ side once and for all.
2) Will and Hannibal being in Cuba and having “adventures” as well as going after Margot and Alana together.
3) Mind Palace, hallucinations, and search for self.
4) Will being out of his mind.
5) Hannibal manipulating Will.
As a theory: Will is going to feel drunk on his newfound darkness and freedom. He was repressed for so long that now that he Became, he’ll be losing his focus and drowning in his own preferences, forgetting what they were and turning into a much more vicious monster any of us expected. He’ll be chasing the high he felt from killing Francis and failing to find it. He’ll be surrounded by blood, his past victims (hence the return of everyone dead, like Bryan mentioned), and more madness. A part of him will want to impress Hannibal, to prove that he’s a worthy partner (which is supported by Will seeking Hannibal’s approval throughout the show - the way he glances at him after biting Cordell is a good example; the way he has low self-esteem and knows Bedelia failed Hannibal’s expectations). So he’ll be acting more and more violently.
Hannibal will see that Will is losing himself in a new way. He won’t want to start a physical relationship with him (which Bryan mentioned) because he’ll be afraid that it isn't for the right reasons, that Will is too far gone to made decisions. So, he’ll feel like the best therapy would be to push Will even more and make him realize that he’s approaching their new life from the wrong angle, to make him figure out that this isn't the kind of killer he wants to be. To do this, Hannibal’s manipulation will entail them going after Alana and Margot.
Will won’t be fond of the idea but Hannibal will manipulate him into accepting it, intending it as a test that will finally make Will snap out of his state. So Will will initially help hunt them down but then he’ll realize this isn’t what he wants to do. Hence finally getting his mind back, which creates the ground for his happiness.
Him being happy in S5 is another thing Bryan mentioned. We also know he wanted to do SOTL.
Personally, I don't think this show needs Silence of the Lambs with Clarice and Buffalo Bill at this point because it has already incorporated major elements from it. Clarice has been divided between different characters; we had a plot with Randall, who didn't feel comfortable in his body, didn't find acceptance from society, and evolved in his own murder-y way. I feel like this echoed the events of SOTL in a way that paid homage to it but remained unique and non-repetitive.
But Bryan does want to film his version of SOTL, so it is what it is. Why I don't think he would break Will and Hannibal up, even though it's purely subjective:
1) He said Hannibal wouldn't want to initiate sexual contact with Will as long as Will is out of his mind in S4. This implies to me that the idea is potentially in the cards for S5.
2) Bryan loves the books and pays respect to them in the most relevant ways. I think he wouldn't want to go against the ending where Hannibal finds the love of his life and enjoys his beautiful freedom. The specifics might differ, but Hannibal would still get his happy ending.
3) The ending of every season supports this notion further. Each one ends with Hannibal's victory, it's a narrative pattern, and breaking it would feel jarring (looking at 'Merlin' here).
4) Bryan is always promoting Hannigram in very positive, life-affirming ways. Here's one quick example of him confirming a fan's question if they can believe that Will and Hannibal are happy somewhere out there. There is a million more examples, and I am skeptical that he'd be doing things quite like this if he planned some ultimate tragedy between them.
About S5 plot: Mads said that Clarice wouldn't be Hannibal's love interest while Bryan said she wouldn't be Abigail #2 for Will and Hannibal. So I assume her role would entail either becoming a reluctant ally or a clever nemesis. Perhaps she decides to seek Murder Husbands out because she feels like they would be the best bet at solving some crime, and they feel amused enough to enter a chase with her; maybe Will and/or Hannibal are imprisoned again, so she comes to consult with them. Maybe Hannibal is imprisoned while Will creates the persona of Buffalo Bill to make people like Clarice talk to Hannibal in their desperation for insights while staging his escape.
I like the first and the third options most. Though since Bryan mentioned that he might push SOTL into flashbacks, like it occurred during the 3-year gap in S3, I really don't see the point of this story-line. Introducing major characters so late in the game is a very bad idea.
In short, I believe that the ending for Will and Hannibal is planned as happy, and I'll keep thinking this until proven otherwise (hopefully never)).
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thrandilf · 1 year
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Been thinking about Aaravos as usual and sensing his story may very well be a tragedy just because. From his point of view,
Dragon Prince is about breaking cycles and starting anew, but Aaravos has no chance of that. He’s witnessed every horrible thing in history from the destruction of Elarion to the present, and judging by his ability to predict the ways of the Sunfire Elves, nothing has really changed. Like, yes in S4 things are changing, and there are people who want to put themselves out there and mend things, but Aaravos doesn’t see that. Even if he did it may be too little too late
All he knows is centuries of injustices and it’s been compounded over 300 years of solitary confinement. Remembering. Rethinking. Over and over with no new information. He’s had no closure for anything he’s ever seen (although he does appreciate Avizandum being taken out, though it doesn’t change anything for him) and I think that the prospect of vengeance is all thats kept him from completely losing it
I think his original plan was to pit the dragons against each other. To him, they had all proven to be unreasonable, arrogant, and cruel. They could have killed each other over the struggle for power. Given the tempers of some of them, it wouldn’t have been that hard to just let the conflict spiral. Aaravos would appear innocent, still beloved, a natural choice for the next leader of Xadia in light of the tragic end of the dragons. Aaravos wants to be worshipped, Aaravos thinks he knows best, and this would be a way to do it without ever getting his hands dirty. To him, this would benefit everyone if he ran the world based off his ideals
Queen Aditi ruined this plan by stepping in and finding a peaceful solution the dragons would accept, so Aaravos took her out.
I should make it clear that yes, I do think that this makes him a villain/at best an anti-hero (and he’s my favorite character so I’m not here to bash) but now we’re faced with the Now What once he’s set free and like.
I don’t think he has a choice but to continue his conquest. If he can’t take the world by sitting innocently in the shadows, brute force it is. Even if he could heal, could forgive, could want to move on, could surrender and just ask “what can I do as long as it’s anything other than sitting in solitary” no one would let him. He’s keeping the cycle spinning because he’s so deep in it that he’s dragging anyone else he possibly can in with him, and if they listen to him as Claudia does, his accounts of history aren’t wrong.
Aaravos was imprisoned with the intention of letting him eventually die in there, sealed away forever. It’s the world’s most drawn out execution, and this is the way it was done because no one had the ability to directly confront him. He did terrible things which broke people’s trust in him forever. He’s been punished for them, but is there any end to it? How many years should have been enough? Is killing him the only answer? But he can’t be expected to just lay down his life after what he already feels was an unjust punishment.
Once he’s free, there’s nothing he could say or do to convince the elves and dragons that he just wants to live in peace, if he wished. There’s no way to be trustworthy or to redeem himself. He’s not allowed a change of heart even if he wanted it. He’s been branded an evil person and condemned until he dies. What else is he supposed to do but live it, or go into hiding? Why would he shut himself away when he thinks he’s right and thinks it’s up to him to fix the world?
It’s like when Claudia brought Viren back and Viren wanted to spend the rest of his days in peace, and she wouldn’t let him. She won’t let go.
Both Viren and Aaravos are so deeply intwined in this that even if they wanted to, they couldn’t get out (although Viren has more hope to than Aaravos does) It would be up to them to accept imprisonments/execution/ect if society agrees that what they’ve done is unforgivable, and so Viren is seeking Aaravos out of survival, and Aaravos will do whatever it is he’s been planning for years because it’s all he has left, and so despite the protagonist’s efforts to make peace, it’s not gonna happen
The change in the way Queen Janai handles justice makes me wonder if there is future hope/atonement for either of them. Perhaps they could be given a chance to help with building a better world. Perhaps they would be given a chance to break the cycle of violence. Perhaps they could do something productive with their gifts and fix things. It’s an interesting thought
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demadogs · 1 year
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would love to hear more about your S5 Mike arc take
HELL YES!!! happy to share!!!! so some of these are genuine predictions with evidence from what ive seen in the show, but some of it is more of a fanficy kinda vibe of scenarios that are plausible but not influenced by genuine predictions i have. for those that i am confident in, i will link my posts explaining the evidence that supports my prediction. the first few parts are more genuine predictions and the later parts are just my brain making shit up.
also this isnt gonna be one of my “why i think this will happen” posts, im just going to write out mikes entire s5 story arc the way i see it in my head.
how it starts
so s5 starts out where we left off. mike and el still together but a little distant. theyre not fighting or anything but theyre not anything like s3 when they were constantly ditching their friends to makeout. people around them dont see an issue in their relationship but they both know its not what either of them want. (if youve read carry on i see them as how agatha and simon were portrayed at the beginning of the book).
the byers need housing back in hawkins and el wants to stay with hopper in his trailer while they work to fix up the cabin. the rest of the byers stay at the wheelers. jonathans sleeping in nancys room and will is sleeping in mikes.
mike and will have a couple more moments like we saw in s4 that could make it obvious that something might be up with both of them. maybe a conversation similar to the “hawkins isnt the same without you” scene. a scene of them both getting ready for bed talking about what they think is gonna happen next with vecna and everything. not the first night, but eventually maybe mike tells him to sleep in bed with him if will has a nightmare or something. little things like that.
the supernatural plot escalates and will and vecna have a deeper connection than anyone else. vecna is going to torture will in some way so im thinking maybe one of vecna’s methods of torturing will is to torture mike. vecna and will would have different interactions and conflict but mike would be vecna’d in the same style that max was.
how the audience and el learn mike is gay:
(this ones a genuine prediction. heres a post talking about why i think so but read it after you read this)
so now mike is cursed. no one knows including mike. everyones so caught up on protecting will because they all believe he is in the most danger so no one is looking after mike. then mike falls into that trance. (this is maybe 4 episodes in.) the whole partys there when it happens. el immediately puts on a blindfold and static noise and tries to piggyback into mikes mind to fight vecna the way she did with max.
mike doesnt know el is there while hes tranced. he doesnt see el the way max did. maybe el tries to touch him and mike feels a weird phantom feeling on his arm and he looks at it in confusion but he doesnt see el at all.
mike is in the mind lair and hes calling for will. he hears vecnas voice saying his full name. then he sees vecna and he starts saying shit about “friends dont lie” hes asking what happened to that motto and wasnt he the one who insisted that friends dont lie in the first place? “but youve been lying to everyone havent you michael”.
mike is shaking his head and vecna has him cornered and hes denying it but obviously terrified and he says he doesnt know what hes talking about and vecna says “you know exactly what im talking about. its not my fault you dont like girls”. and THATS the line that reveals to the audience that hes gay.
then maybe mike is able to run away but then he starts seeing shit. he ends up in his own basement and sees will and believes hes out of the trance and hugs will but he shrugs him off and tells him “dont touch me”. his eyes are all wrong and hes realizing hes not awake yet. vecna will starts calling him out on his feelings, telling him he would never love him back, that he doesnt even wanna be friends anymore. mike runs away and he just keeps seeing visions like this of everyone he loves. his family not accepting him. his friends not accepting him. el being mad at him for lying.
we are seeing els reactions to all of this too. shes been trying to use her powers to stop vecna this whole time. eventually in her pov everything goes completely black and shes in that weird void thing meaning that mike must be out of the trance. she hears mike panting and crying and takes off her blindfold and sees him awake with will holding his hand or shoulder and him looking at the ground.
eventually he looks up and sees el and at first his face doesnt change but then he sees her holding the blindfold and a pile of tissues with blood on them next to her and he connects the dots and starts to panic. will tries to reassuringly tell him that el was piggybacking trying to save him not realizing thats why hes freaking out. el says his name and tries to calm him down but he just gets up and locks himself alone in a room.
little pause for a second… listen. MIKE IS OVERDUE FOR A FULL ON PANIC ATTACK OK!!!!! we see will express his emotions every single season!! the last time we saw mike completely break down was in s2 when he was yelling at hopper. ever since then hes been trying so hard to bury his feelings and be someone hes not and make sure NO ONE finds out about him and now hes been outed to his girlfriend. he would completely break down. like full on sobbing, maybe throwing up. I WANT HIM TO EXPRESS EMOTIONS EVEN IF THEYRE TERRIBLE ONES!!!!!
el and mikes final breakup/ mikes first coming out:
mike is having a full on panic attack. hes on the floor crying and el is outside of it. he locked the door but el needs to see him so she tells him shes coming in and she uses her powers and opens the door. she closes it and sits next to mike on the floor. at this point hes silently crying and his hands are shaking but hes not as bad he was a few minutes ago. theyre both silent for a bit. mike speaks first and he whispers “did you see all of it?” el says yes.
mike starts to cry more and just starts apologizing profusely and el stops him by just pulling him into tight hug and he hugs her back for a long time. he starts telling her that he never wanted to hurt her. el tries to tell him shes not hurt right now but mike argues and tells her that hes hurt her so much in the past. he tells her that he made her feel like she was unlovable and that she was the issue when he knew deep down that it was him. that there was something fundamentally wrong with him. el tries to tell him theres nothing wrong with him but he insists that there is.
then el admits that she doesnt think she ever was truly in love with him either. she tells him that they both were just trying to do what everyone expected them to do. she didnt know any better because she had just left the lab and was still figuring out how to be a person, let alone a girlfriend. and people expected mike to like her just because she was a girl so he just went with it even after he realized he didnt feel that way. neither of them have ever been true to themselves for as long as theyve known each other. she tells him that he taught her what a friend was. and she missed her friend mike and wants to go back to that. mike tells her he wants that too and they hug again. (i want this scene to be the sweetest most wholesome breakup ever).
theyd also have a conversation of el being confused on whats wrong with him liking a boy. i think it would be really beneficial for mike to hear from someone who was never taught to hate people like him. it would give him so much relief to see potentially the number one person he never wanted to know just be absolutely baffled on why its a bad thing.
while theyre still hugging el says “for what its worth i think he likes you back” mike denies it and el insists that the way he looks at him says everything but mike wont even listen hes convinced he could never love him back.
then mike remembers something and asks a question. “what about the painting?”. els confused. she asks what hes talking about he tells her that will said she commissioned him a painting for her. “if you really didnt love me then whyd you have will paint me that?” she tells him she never told will to paint anything. mike is confused and telling her everything will said in the van. that he gives her the courage to fight on and he needs her. he asks what all that was about if she didnt feel that way and shes just confused. “he wouldnt even show me what he was working on. i told you i thought it was for someone he likes.”
“but it was for me.” el smiles and mike is still not convinced but hes kinda going crazy.
so now mike and el are broken up in the most wholesome way ever and theyre on better terms than theyve ever been but everyone thinks theyre still together. and mike for the first time thinks theres a chance will loves him back and he doesnt know how to act or ask him about it.
mike and will in the upside down:
(the only thing that led me to believe mike and will would be stuck in the upside down together was the upside down couch they sat on in the cabin. other than that this is entirely just what my brain came up with, not an actual prediction)
so skipping ahead, the vecna/upside down plot is getting spicier. shits going down. honestly im WAY better at imagining/predicting gay plots than scifi plots so i have no fucking clue whats going on with vecna and shit its just wild rn thats all you need to know.
i imagine almost all of them having to be in the upside down for some reason. then theres a scenario with some kinda monster like a demodog where they have to sprint to the gate back to real hawkins to be safe but the gate is closing back up. it would look like max’s running up that hill scene. theyre all getting closer and closer but then mike falls (classic) and will sees and goes back to him. the gate is closing more. he helps him up and they both start sprinting again but they dont make it. the whole gate closes up right when they get there and now theyre completely separated from all the friends and family and are alone in the upside down.
theyre able to defeat whatever was after them (will with a gun 👀) but now theyre stuck. maybe they get in a little argument where mike says “i told you to go on without me!!” and wills like “you think i would just leave you here!!!???” they both sit down against the wall the gate was on (like a brick wall or something). they try to come up with a plan and will brings up that maybe el help them some way and he mentions her being mikes girlfriend and mike tells him they broke up. wills very surprised about this. he asks if hes ok and mike tells him its better this way and he means it. (its now been a couple days since they broke up). they hear distant sounds of a monster and tells mike they shouldnt be here. theyre too exposed. (keep in mind mike is being kinda awkward because hes still thinking about the painting and what will said in the van that day and wondering if el was right and that will does love him back but he hasnt brought it up to him yet.)
they get up and make their way to the upside down wheelers house. they enter through the basement and its the same that it looked the day will went missing. the table is set up with the dnd campaign they were playing on november 6th 1983. mike tries to get comfortable on the couch but will just cant stop looking at the table. then he sees the dice on the floor with a 7 pointed up and they flashback to s1 of will telling mike it was a 7.
mike says his name and will remembers hes there and kinda startles and mike asks if hes okay and he just tells him that its just weird seeing everything from that day again. mike agrees. they get more quiet and tense thinking about that night will went missing.
mike brings up that they never finished the campaign. that he was begging his mom for the him and lucas and dustin to stay for 20 more minutes. he tells will he wonders if everything wouldve been different if he had stay. if vecna wouldve grabbed some other kid and they wouldve never known about this other world beneath them.
theyre thinking about that first night will went missing and mike asks if wills ok being back here again. he tells him its not as bad this time around because hes not alone. mike starts to get emotional thinking about when will was missing and he opens up to will about it. he tells him about how they all were there at the quarry when they found his “body”. will didnt know they were all there. he tells him that it was the worst night of his life because he thought he lost him forever. then he goes into talking about when the mindflayer had him and he thought he was losing him again, and then how will moved away. hes starting to cry because he has a deep fear of losing will for good and hes at a huge risk with vecna right now and hes so scared something will happen to him. will reassures him and tells him “im right here” and mike is silently crying and will just pulls him into a hug and they stay hugging for a long time. will tells him “im not going anywhere” while still hugging him.
they separate from the hug but still have their arms around each other and dont let go. its kinda awkward. mike is the one making it awkward. he looks like he wants to say something but isnt and is looking wills lips a lot and theyre so close to each other. will thinks he knows what hes thinking but doesnt dare say anything to ruin it so he just lightly nods his head as if to give mike permission if whats hes thinking is true. and then mike leans in and kisses him.
(IT HAS TO BE A SOFT TENDER KISS I DONT LIKE ALL THE MAKEOUT SESSION HEADCANONS I JUST WANT IT TO BE SWEET!!!!)
mike pulls back and at first he looks like hes about to panic but wills just looking at him with the biggest smile and it immediately puts him at ease. mike says “the painting was from you” and will doesnt know what hes talking about at first so mike continues “you said it was from el but it was from you” will confirms that it was. “and everything you said after…” “yes it was all from me” and mike kisses him again. (i also am imagining this as like the second to last episode)
(another more dramatic first kiss i have in mind is during a huge supernatural conflict and its just them and they completely believe theres no way theyre making it out alive and will is telling him that this is it and mike just kisses him right before all hell breaks loose)
post kiss byler
but of course we cant have nice things right away so theres a bit more angst before theyre a completely established couple. they fall asleep on the couch together in the upside down and in the morning they wake up and something chaotic upsidedown related is happening. again, i truly cannot even begin to guess/predict any of the actual scifi plot of the show so dont ask me what this is but its SOMETHING OK.
they dont even have time to acknowledge the kiss the night before or the fact that they woke up in each others arms. they have to fight whatever the conflict is in the upside down.
eventually they are able to escape the upside down and reunite with everyone. once theyre back with all their friends and family but mikes acting a little different again. hes shutting will out again and will is so confused.
(this is loosely inspired by the show the wilds. shelby whos very closeted and comes from an extremely homophobic family is on a deserted island with a bunch of girls and she falls for one of them whos out and she basically tells her “youre FREE here you dont have all that family trauma youre literally on a deserted island” so she kisses her. then later she sees a boat in the distance and she hesitates to make a signal with the fire because shes so scared to go back to her normal life with her homophobic family. mike is kinda experiencing that here. hes back in the “normal” world and is going back to trying to be who they want him to be, not who he just was with will.)
mike is kind of ignoring will when theyre around everyone. he deliberately doesnt sit next to him, he only talks to him when will talks first, hes basically scared that everyone can tell what they did. then will finally finds him alone and talks to him. at first hes hopeful and trying to be kinda flirty and make him laugh and mike barely has a reaction and then will confronts him.
“did that kiss mean nothing to you” mike immediately looks up from what hes doing and makes sure no one else is in the room and will notices. “what?” will tells him hes been different since they got back and hes acting like nothing happened and hes barely acting like theyre friends let alone anything more. and theyre both silent and will says “are we anything more?” and mike thinks before he speaks and then tells him that he did that in a world where there were no other humans. no laws, no expectations, no people to say that what they did was wrong. “thats not the case here.” and will gets mad at this and says something like “so what are you just gonna drop everything and be what everyone else says you should be?” mike doesnt answer and then will asks again “did it mean nothing to you?” and then theyre interrupted before mike could answer.
then later maybe the same day, mike is going somewhere to tell one of the older kids something or to get something related to what their big battle plan is and he sees robin and vickie through a window in a different room kissing and being super happy and flirty with each other. he stops in his tracks and just watches them and hes in total shock because he felt like there was no one like him his whole life and people like him couldnt be as happy as what hes seeing right now. he just continues watching them laugh while holding each other. i also think it would be great if steve was also there and he sees this former asshole douche being supportive of his best friend and letting them just be themselves so freely. he starts to tear up watching them. (this ones inspired by the book i’ll give you the sun this exact scene happens at a party).
that night mike and will are getting ready to go to bed in mikes room again not talking. will gets ready to sleep on the floor, a set back from when they were sleeping in the same bed. the lights are off and wills pretending to try to fall asleep and then mike whispers “it didnt mean nothing.” will turns and face mikes bed and then mike asks him to come up and will hesitantly joins him and mike sits up and faces him.
then this is potentially mikes most venerable scene in the whole show. he tells will absolutely everything. that when he and el moved he realized he was missing him the way he shouldve been missing el and it gave him the worst panic attack of his life when he figured out why. he stopped caring about himself and everything and everyone. he hated who he was. he didnt have the energy to hang out with his friends, to do his hw, to clean his room, to shower, to eat, and he stopped calling will. he just stopped doing everything. but what he continued to do was keep his relationship with el, and the more he did it the more guilty he felt. he didnt want to break up through a letter but he also didnt have the guts to do it in california and then when el confronted him about never saying he loves her he felt so much worse. he wanted nothing more than to actually love her. he hated that he loved will instead.
he tells will that he remembers how his dad would act when he went to wills house as a kid. how they overheard lonnie talking to joyce about them being “too close” one time and neither of them quite knew what he meant by that until later. he has so many little moments like this in his life of people letting him know that its wrong. that he is wrong. and he never ever thought will would be the same way and he never thought any boy could feel that way about him. mike whispers “i just want to be normal” and will says “since when are our lives normal?” and mike kinda laughs but hes also crying. wills holding his hands and tells him “mike, youve been through so much worse than being in love.” and then mike kisses him again!!! yes they have to kiss at least twice this is my mike arc and i make the rules. i could be more detailed in this whole scene but this has been in my drafts for weeks and i need to finally post it.
established byler/mike coming out:
then i really want mike to have a coming out scene with nancy or his mom but honestly id prefer nancy. i just think theres such a lack of wheeler sibling content and id really love if there was a scene like will and jonathan but for mike and nancy. i imagine them both being in the car on their way to somewhere related to the scifi plot and mike tells her that he and el broke up and they talk about that for a bit. and nancy asks if hes happy and mike says yes. and then mike starts to tell her why hes happy and eventually comes out to her but hes still terrified as hes doing it nancy pulls over just to hug him and its very emotional and sweet.
i also really want a scene of them coming out to the party but honestly im not sure if they will just because now there will have to be like 3 coming out scenes already. they might do the party instead of nancy or karen which id be ok with but they also might skip ahead and have them both already be out.
during the epilogue-ish scene they usually have at the end of a season after the supernatural plot has died i want another sweet byler scene. i love the concept of them going to prom with the whole party as a group but just mike and will find their own room to dance in and be themselves and feel safe. i need some fluff before the season ends.
AND THATS IT I DID IT IM SORRY THIS TOOK SO FUCKING LONG!!!!!
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