#and i think people like this say as much by comparing neil and kevin in terms of how they deal with the moriyamas

[farawaysoph-ie]

The Sunshine Court Incoherent Whatever (pt.1)

Okay. Okay.

I just finished The Sunshine Court and 1) Jean Moreau what have you done to me? 2) Jean Moreau what have(n't) they done to you?

I started this, then went and re-read tkm (bc the obsession was always latent and never gone), so I could compare both Neil and Jean pov and well, suffice to say I'm not okay and I feel too much.

Thank you Nora Sakavic, it was painful and amazing.

I have a long train ride so I might as well bring back my incoherent whatever after *checks the notes* 4 years :')

As always this will be so full of spoilers.

(Unrelated spoiler: the train ride wasn't enough)

Let's start with the general:

After loving Neil maybe too much the shift to Jean took awhile to adjust to but now I'm ready to fight at least three mafia families, every single hater (fictional or otherwise) and the FBI for him

Jeremy Knox was everything, but like everyone on here, what are you hiding Jeremy?? What's going on??

Cat and Laila, my beloved ™️ the care these two effortlessly gave made me cry

This whole book was a serious trigger for me, but I'm in too deep with this series, imagine me like that Simpsons meme, I did it for my new french son

Characters, thoughts:

I said before the Ravens were a cult, but I hadn't really understood that statement. Every time Jean spoke of them it hit deeper and deeper how messed up and unfair it all was.

Boy am I happy that Riko is dead, like I didn't really wish anyone the fate of being shot by an unfeeling older brother, until Jean's pov hit me like a high speed train.

Andrew spoke exactly one word in this, still was iconic and a scene stealer, how in character for him

I forgot how much I always want to slap Kevin Day when he's trying his best to be annoying, it's because I love him, I swear! (But seriously his relationship with Jean is so complex and well executed I will think about it for a very long while)

I didn't give much thought to Renee and Jean relationship in tkm, but it broke my heart here, it's when I started to actually tear up, I love them so much rainbows, a cool evening breeze. I can't.

"Tell me something"

"Where are you now?"

The whole dynamic of the Cat&Laila& sometimesJeremy's apartment

Cat teaching Jean how to cook + motorbike ride (open roads)

Laila taking him to shopping

Jeremy wanting to make Jean Moreau the Person his success story

Neil dragging Jean towards survival without giving him a choice, again and again: he sent Renee as gentle bait, closed a deal in his name with a mafia boss, promised him he would win against Riko in his name too, promised him again Riko was dead, ordered a hit on his rapist, offered to delay the talk with the FBI, linked his sister to his name, to survival and to what he deserved. I NEED more interactions between them, I am not above begging.

I have to get a better idea on the other Trojans, but for now the policule was cute, I need more Cody and less Lucas. Like I can understand where he was coming from? But he needs to shut up now, you made your mess man, now go play Exy like you were supposed to.

I miss the Foxes :'(

Wymack! I almost forgot everyone's favourite dad-coach: he showed up, brought alcohol, got more tired, delivered care to yet another traumatized child, spent a whole day on airplanes to bring him to Los Angeles, left him money for clothes&co. bc he's not doing this again, answered his call when he was having The Breakdown. Best dad-coach ever in the history of dad-coaches.

Plot things:

Jean at the beginning was so scared and in so much pain it took a while to get a clear picture of him as a person

Still loved all his salty comments and insults, he couldn't help himself

Renee sitting with him and caring with Abby and Wymack :')

Jean being afraid of going back and of not going back to Evermore, hating the ones that got to leave

The self harm and all the people in this that fought him to keep his hands from his neck, his scars, himself

"I am Jean Moreau. My place is at Evermore. I will endure."

Jean not believing in Wymack care, waiting for the act to end and the other shoe to drop

The disbelief at Kevin being away from the court and him admitting he went at knifepoint (and meaning it literally), sometimes this was a comedy

Wymack, Jean, and the burning of houses

Jean's opinion of the Foxes going from those mediocre fools to those mediocre madmen to the madmen that actually beat Riko Moriyama

Wymack putting Jean's phone in the freezer and hating computers

“That man is years overdue for a high-speed, head-on collision.” couldn't have said it better, but Neil was already on it at that point

"Jean knew better than to look for anger in his stare; the best Kevin could manage was bottomless guilt."

“It was my only chance,” Kevin said. “I knew you wouldn’t come with me.” “My place is at Evermore,” Jean agreed, “but you did not have to slit my throat on the way out.”

“Your blind loyalty to those clowns is exhausting.” “Some of them you like,” Kevin reminded him. “Don’t you dare,”

Nathaniel "Hello Jean" Wesninski vs Jean "Go away" Moreau

This whole conversation went very differently compared to tkm: like there Neil came, dropped a metaphorical bomb, glossed over the explanation and went away trying to convince Andrew they are something

Jean was ambushed by two of his most complicated acquaintances (???) and their "pet goalkeeper" (god I need Andrew's reaction to this "nickname", but I guess no one will ever say this to his face, Neil would be too busy fighting you at the suggestion to ever repeat it), had his worldwiew turned upside down with no chance of having a say in the matter, then was left alone with Kevin Day and the aftermath.

So yes two different conversation; also I kinda forgot of the deal about Neil and his smile

“Everyone who has tried to tame him has failed.”

All for the game: a summary

There was no getting away; there was only getting through.

Jean Moreau who (hasn't) hurt you, part some of too many

What really makes it messed up is that on one hand there was Riko and his mad cruelty and on the other there was an entire team of bystanders At Best: some people were an active part and then pretended, no sympathy for them; others decided to ignore the truth to survive and get what they wanted, which I can understand but I guess they still didn't have the decency to shut up when Jean got away. The anger that crawled through my skin when the smear campaign and the notebook/postcards/magnets thing happened. You should have stayed silent until the end you fucks.

“Do it, then. It wouldn’t take much; we all know I have brittle bones.”

Jeremy pov kinda gave you whiplash, with him waking up super early, helping homeless men, but then you start noticing all the things he avoids almost effortlessly and like, what are you hiding sunshine man??

What actually broke me about his povs was him noticing all these details about Jean, and then misinterpreting them, bc whatever he's been through Jean has had it 100 times worse and this doesn't even factor in Jeremy world. I'm pretty sure he'll get the whole truth in the end and I'm scared of what it'll do to him.

Also Jean being like Ravens always had to keep secrets and then spilling most of them almost unprompted, let's laugh in order not to cry

“He hasn’t played a clean game in years,” Kevin admitted, “but he knows how to follow orders. If you tell him to submit, he will.” “Literally the most awkward way you could’ve worded it,” Jeremy said.

This will keep coming back, Kevin please. (He 100% ships it, one of us)

The Foxes catching the too tired Trojans and Jeremy being like, you are all approved (I need the two teams to interact now)

Also the Trojans being like how are they still standing, Neil how are you still running??

Someone pointed out they wanted Neil to interact with Jeans closest teammates bc if he is a madman by Jean standards, what would normal people make of him? To which yes, but also guys consider this: Neil said to Cat and Laila that they were terrifying after the semifinal, he took a step back when Jeremy opened the door and silently invited him in. I need Neil and the floozies to interact so Neil can experience real fear.

Mafia bosses have nothing on wholesome people, the true weakness of one Neil Josten

Jean immediately hanging up on Jeremy will never not be funny

When you get to the title of the book and it's Jean insulting people <3

I will Never, NEVER, get over the "nineteen". Never.

I love Abby but when she told that bit about fighting back, It Hurt. She probably didn't really mean it and didn't know everything bc how are you supposed to keep fighting when you are fifteen, alone and forsaken in a place that is built to break you? As it has been pointed out, Neil had rebellion beaten into him by a mother that chose him and ran; Jean had a sister that he hoped to protect and parents that sold him away like property. Five months were actually a long time.

Dobson keeps being iconic, I don't know what to think about the I don't know how exy works bit: I mean I've been obsessing with this and still don't know how exy works (plz don't hate me), but at the same time it was such a power move and got Jean to talk

“Of course it’d be you, you tedious malcontent.” “Good morning to you, too.” Nathaniel held up an oversized bandage.

You see why I need more of their interactions, right?

Nathaniel was different; he always would be. He wasn’t a Raven, but he was, same as Jean. He was Jean’s misplaced forever partner, an unfulfilled promise Jean had stopped believing in years ago.

You can now be forever partners while you tear down your families :)

I think that I'm stuck on the two of them bc while Kevin broke a promise to save himself (to which no hate, when dealing with madmen like Riko you have to save yourself) and still couldn't, not completely, Neil was a promise made and broken by other people. Jean hates him bc they were supposed to share a destiny and all the misery, but I think very deep down he knows that if Nathaniel had come to the Nest they would still be nursing wounds and appeasing a tyrant. Neil is the one that stood against Riko when Kevin wanted to hide, the one that gave him courage by example, the one that dragged Jean away from the Ravens, both for selfish reasons (taking down Riko) and better ones (paying him back for saving his life a the Nest).

But still

“You are only here now because you are an abominable cockroach,”

Funny how Neil forgot to tell us about the breakdown about Kevin's tattoo, he was probably thinking about the match. Junkie.

The cheese drawer guys, ???

To this day I still can't decide what was more iconic: Kevin Day switching playing hand halfway through the game and pretty much scoring everything until the last second, Neil being so fast that it made up for him being a shitty defender, Andrew crossing the court to keep Neil from being murdered (I'm biased, but still iconic moments all of them)

Experiencing this match from Jean's pov was amazing writing, like the countdown of the last ten seconds, the Riko-Neil bit without volume but from a different angle (I didn't really realize everyone was able to see the King attempting murder live on TV, but hey perspective)

Run, Jean thought. He didn't know if he was thinking it at Andrew or Nathaniel. Run.

"That wasn't a miracle," Jean typed out. "That was the Foxes."

:')

When Jean found about Riko though :'(

The shudder that wracked his chest should have been revulsion, but it fell dangerously short. This didn't feel like joy or relief; it only felt like loss. [...] Who was he without them?"

I loved that he woke up to Renee and Neil though, the rainbow and the witness

Renee always hitting the point, this wonderful girl

"Maybe you're mourning the wreckage he made of your life. You're allowed to grieve what he took from you."

"It's impressive, isn't it? How easily these monsters die in the end."

Neil Abram Josten said I'm done letting monsters ruin my life and my people, he actually promised.

When he called him Neil guys, tears

Also I found peculiar that when thinking about the room he destroyed Jean calls it "Neil's dorm room", not Kevin's who he's known for actually longer. It's what makes me think that they have a chance at not being misplaced forever anymore.

Renee either hits you with hidden wisdom of the universe or with practical and brutal advice, and we love her for that

The two of them, the Two Of THEEEEEEEEM

Jean noticed how Andrew and Neil moved like they were caught in each other's gravity, in each other's space more than they were out of it, cigarette smoke and matching armbands and lingering looks when one fell out of orbit for too long.

Just leaving this here.

The airport bit :'(

"Men like Wymack didn't exist. They couldn't; they shouldn't."

Enter Jeremy Knox and his yo-yo in the middle of said airport. Flawless.

This man was put on Earth to test Jean, at least that's what he will keep thinking from here on

The rest of this book is Jean having conversations with people and not understanding them, bc he's been living for five (seven) years in a cult. It is an escalation pretty painful to watch, I think the Trojans are all of us :'(

Question: will Jean end up teaching Jeremy French? Will Jeremy learn by himself? I think I'd probably prefer the latter

Cat, the mess, the music, the tour, I love her so much

Jeremy "he's a little off" Knox, he was trying

Barkbark von Barkenstein

Jean Moreau and the real world (bubble tea? you have to shop for stuff? you sign things yourself? you leave campus? someone help this disoriented french bean)

"Something had gone horribly wrong at Evermore"

oh Jeremy

Watching Jeremy regret almost all his questions :'(

“Three fractured ribs. Sprained LCL. Twisted ankle. Broken nose. That’s most of it.” That’s most of it.

Laila, who pushed and got angry for Jean and didn't back down despite him lashing out, my beloved

You look like a Ken doll." + "This isn't blond."

"Not Grayson.[...] Please." that one made me sick, the writing made me feel even only a part of what Jean was feeling and it was enough to feel sick

The water :'(

Jean just leaving when confronted with Laila and Jeremy in swimsuits was very bi of him

Lucas coming in looking like a well know nightmare and the Ravens dropping like flies

I didn't ask.

It's not like I didn't know, right? But I still died inside

Zane and the betrayal

Jeremy didn’t let him get away with it. “That’s not the issue and you know it. I don’t want to crowd you.” “You are not them,” Jean said. “Kevin would not have sent me here if you were.”

Jean taking one look at the doctor sent by the coaches and going nope, Dobson will be definitely better

Jeremy seeing the nightmares and the scars and not being able to do much:(

A hand on his chin startled him into looking up. When he met Jean’s eyes, Jean only said, “Focus on what’s important.” “I am,” Jeremy said. Jean opened his mouth, closed it again, and let go of Jeremy without a word. Jeremy snagged his arm when he started to turn away. “Who did this to you?”

I'm sorry did he just

“It’s not about size, anyway.” “Defensive,” Jean said, tugging his glove straps with his teeth. Jeremy straightened in indignation. “I don’t have anything to be defensive about.” Jean lost his grip and bit his lip, and Jeremy hurried on before either of them could think too much about that double entendre.

“Say ‘yes, Jeremy’.” He had the distinct impression Jean wanted to roll his eyes. “Yes, Jeremy.” Jeremy forgot everything else he could have said in favor of staring. It was the first time he’d heard Jean say his name.

Are you seeing this? Yes? Good, let's go on

“If I ever make you uncomfortable or make you feel unsafe, will you promise to tell me? If you don’t trust me enough to tell me what’s wrong and why, at least trust me enough to tell me that something is wrong. I can’t fix things if I don’t know there’s a problem. As your captain and your partner, don’t I at least deserve the chance to not be a villain in your story?”

The pool bit :'( and after when they tell there are no pools at Evermore. Riko is so lucky to already be dead :)

You’re forcing us to hurt you without giving us any say in the matter.”

Watching Jean trying to navigate his interactions with the Trojans was painful, frustrating but also hopeful. This boy has been hurt so much and so often, he doesn't get what normal looks like anymore. But the Trojans don't let him get away with it (even if it breaks their heart and the coaches will probably get a lot of grey hair from this)

"Your safety and happiness will always be more important than our season.” “You are naïve.” “Maybe you’ll define success by how we do this season, but I’m not obligated to do the same. You are going to be my success story: Jean Moreau the person, not Jean Moreau of the perfect Court. You take care of one, and I’ll take care of the other.” “That is not how it works.” “Is there a rule against it?” “There is no merit to it. This is all I am.” Jeremy ignored that and asked again, “Is there a rule against it?”

Jeremy gay panicking and the photo of Renee

The floozy line!

Every time Jeremy goes "our coaches" or "our teammates" all I can think in my head is "someone will die" "of fun!!!!"

Jean wondering if the Trojans have something against recruiting tall players xD

“Thank you for worrying about them. You’re a good man, Jean Moreau.” “A ridiculous sentiment,” he said. “I mean it,”

This man didn't even second guess himself, he had to ask because he knew and it didn't even occur to him to be silent. Excuse me sir? Shut up you are a good man

“I assumed the Trojans were idiots,” Jean said. “Now I think you are all insane.” “It’s a step up,” Cody said. “I’ll take it.”

The practices, the scars pt2

“It is all I am, Coach.”

“We did not want outsiders at Evermore.” “Except Neil,” Cat said. “Neil was a special case,” Jean allowed.

#accurate

You’re hurting me.” “It has been toward for five years,” Jean said, looking past Jeremy at the scrimmage that was still going on without them. “It is not that easy to undo.” Jeremy frowned at him and echoed, “Five? You were only with the Ravens for three.” “I moved into Evermore two years before I enrolled,” Jean said, and hauled Jeremy to one side. The stray ball that had been coming for them ricocheted off his chest instead of Jeremy’s back, and Jean scooped it up on the rebound with a quick snap of his wrist. He hurled it across the court toward Cody one-handed before finally letting go of Jeremy. “I will try harder.”

The notebooks breakdown hurt so bad bc Cat and Laila being angry for him (they are all of us), Jeremy trying to mediate bc he's been there, he pushed and Jean broke and he doesn't want to hurt him, and Jean who confesses his secrets without meaning to, just to realize and panic. What a recipe for a disaster.

“How dare they blame you for anything after what they did to you. How dare you grieve them.” It hit like a sucker punch, but Jean’s frustrated rejoinder was worse: “They don’t know.”

They don't know, but they could guess. They could smell the blood. They joked about his brittle bones. He was sixteen. I'm not sorry for the mercy I don't have after finishing this book

Jeremy could only watch in wretched silence as Jean tried to walk himself back from the edge. He cast his phone aside in favor of catching Jean’s face in his hands, and the way Jean flinched at his touch was almost his undoing. “Hey,” he said quietly. “Hey. Jean. Look at me.” Jean refused, and Jeremy grasped desperately for anything that could bring Jean back to him. He seized on the only thing he could and threw Jean’s words back at him: “You are Jean Moreau. Your place is here with me, with us. I’m your captain. You’re my partner. We’re supposed to be doing this together, aren’t we? Stop leaving me behind. Look at me.” It wouldn’t work, but it did. Jean opened his eyes to meet Jeremy’s stare. “I told you not to ask me about him.”

I had seen the quote before reading but no one told me what followed ç.ç

He felt a tremor in Jean’s hands, and for a blinding moment he was sure Jean would lean into the safety of this silent confession. But Jean only sucked in a slow breath and said, “Now I am not safe with you, captain.” Letting go of Jean was the hardest thing Jeremy had ever done. Everything in him railed against this, and for a moment he regretted giving Jean a way out.

I was not crying, I swear.

“I’m sorry,” Jeremy said, because he didn’t have the strength for small talk or a softer approach right now. “Did Riko break your hand?”

That was one heavy conversation and it's just the start (Jeremy is Not Fine™️)

He is not used to having a voice, and he has never had power. I cannot promise he will ever talk to you.” “I will wait as long as it takes,” Jeremy said.

Still best boy

And maybe in many ways he still was, but a martyr could still be a monster when the cameras weren’t rolling.

Boy do I have news for you (do you think Jeremy will know that Riko didn't kill himself? Does it matter? I think not knowing this particular detail would be fine, I still don't really know how much this sunshine boy can take (more than I expected but still))

Did I mention that I really love the apartment trio? Cat and Laila agreeing to silence but still being angry (drag them girls, draaaaag them), the dinner and movie and Jean not getting up to leave

Did I mention Lucas is free to shut up and play? :) Because I get that you are angry, but 1) it's not your decision to make, we don't need your conspiracy theories 2) it's not Jean problem, he has enough of them leave him alone

“Ask him why he’s so sure the rumors are true. Ask him what his part in it was. If you’re going to believe him just because he’s blood, then at least make him tell you the truth.” “What’s that supposed to mean?” Lucas demanded.

And Jean still deciding not to lie, he may be an asshole but almost everyone he has known didn't deserve him

Also I don't know where Lucas got the audacity? You think there is something the justifies breaking a player's ribs?? What is wrong with you, you are part of the sunshine court

The dread when asking if Grayson was home

The bike ride :')

Now that they were settled, he expected an interrogation or a reason for this unscheduled trip out. When she failed to explain herself, Jean finally asked, “Why are we here?” “I love it here,” [...] “I don’t know. I just felt like some fresh air would do you good. There’s nothing like a ride to get you out of your head and into the moment, you know?” Jean considered that for a minute. “Thank you.”

Jean waited until he was out of earshot. “I don’t understand.” “Trust us,” Jeremy said tiredly. “Neither do we.”

Jean vs the Trojans, a summary

The monster shows up and it was a mess and Jean has never had a break, literally never

Which was extremely literal bc Lucas wanted to talk and then Neil shows up

I need a separate post for the last pages bc I started this 24 h ago and I want to do it justice. So part 2 coming.

Edit: I misspelled Jean's surname *facepalms and goes to hide*

#tsc #the sunshine court #i didn't know how much i would end up caring about this french boy #new son acquired #tsc spoilers #the sunshine court spoilers #spoilers #aftg #incoherent whatever

[dayurno]

okay so listen. about my taylor angst kandreil au. this isn't posted anywhere? i literally only write this for my friend and then we scream about each other's writing in our whatsapp chat. also, and that might be the more pressing issue, it's entirely in german cause, you know, i am german. i only started writing in english when i started writing smut cause ew, can't do that in german, but taylor came before that so. there's that. i am sorry, i would definitely let you read it!!

ALSO thank you SOSOSOSOSO much for those new years day snippets i am going to COMBUST????? this is. so them i wanna SCREAM AND DESTROY SOMETHING preferably myself

on reputation kandrew: i just wrote an entire thing about king of my heart kandrew cause

your love is a secret i'm hoping dreaming dying to keep???

the end of all the endings, my broken bones are mending???

i totally agree on your dress agenda, i have been listening to it nonstop these past few days and this is SO kandrew. may i offer you call it what you want kandrew as well? because:

my castle crumbled over night, i brought a knife to a gunfight, they took the crown but it's alright

loves me like i'm brand new

he built a fire just to keep me warm

all the jokers dressing up as kings, they fade to nothing when i look at him

OKAY this ask got way too long already, so i am stopping now, but i think you get what i mean. my kandrew brainrot is bad, and i adore it.

(one last thing.

my reputation's never been worse so you must like me for me)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, time to learn german i guess ........... even though i am fundamentally against european languages on every aspect. "dont you speak portuguese" yes, BRAZILIAN portuguese, do not compete where u cant compare!

REPUTATION IS SOOOOOOSOOOSOOOO KANDREW ESP PRE-CANON ive been playing with the idea of a pre-canon long fic for a while now and i was just thinking abt how much reputation would Fit. i feel like it has such a slow romantic pace and has all that tension of liking someone a Lot but not it just being a very chaotic moment all around............ call it what you want specifically imo is just. LIKE IT DESCRIBES KEVINS FALL FROM GRACE SO WELL.. my castle crumbled overnight / i brought a knife to a gun fight / they took the crown but its alright? AND LIKE. AND!!! and i dont know maybe i just got issues but i have a thing about kevin praising andrew. i feel like he is a person whos as quick to scold as he is to praise (seen in: everything he does with neil) but with andrew specifically, when kevin thinks hes done good, andrew will know bc kevin isnt shy about it! so when she says shit like "my baby's fit like a daydream" its like. I DONT KNOWWW HONESTLY but something just clicks in my brain at the thought of kevin feeling that way abt andrew

also i know i know i know..... I want to wear his initial / On a chain round my neck, chain round my neck is not the most healthy thing to say about a man but. i think something i hold dearest to me is the idea that under deals and promises, after all is said and done, what andrew most wants is that the people he puts so much effort into choose to stay with him Willingly u know? not because of coercion or fear or necessity but because they really want to stay w him. and i feel like, for kandrew specifically............... isnt that the biggest thing? kevin being his because he really really really wants to be, and not bc he needs to be. (nicki minaj voice) i got issues yeah bitch i got issues

anyway hehe ahem. my apologies for the just as wordy reply

#kandrew #asks #i could write an essay abt this i fear im insane

[thespineoftherighteous]

someone had the nerve to call Kevin day a "coward" in 2021 with their whole chest like damn that's embarrassing

#not even controversial just so so painfully wrong #like idk how to tell you this ms but im pretty sure you conpletely missed the point #and i think people like this say as much by comparing neil and kevin in terms of how they deal with the moriyamas #like just because my boy neil has the survival instincts of a clumsy tenth month old doesnt mean kevins fears are out of place #not to mention it really invalidates all the trauma he went through #like idk if youre just so used to neils absolute batshit craziness that healthy fight or flight responses equate to cowardice but.... #anyway idek #this probably doesnt make sense but i'm sure someone in the fandom has already written a brilliant piece on proper kevin day respect and- #perhaps some of yall should find it and read it? #not saying you gotta feel any particular way towards the guy i just think 'coward' is a *touch misrepresentative #so ig there are two kinds of aftg fans i dont understand: those who reduce kevin to a coward and those who only see aaron as a homophobe #anyway as you were #kevin day #aftg #all for the game #the foxhole court #tfc #aftg shit

[palmett-hoes]

I like your meta and I got to thinking about all the stuff in these books that requires the suspension of disbelief to roll with and tbh the biggest thing Nora ever asked us to overlook is Riko's entire schtick. Tell me who in real life looks at a short, West Virginia college freshman, even the ones who are good athletes, and says 'oh yeah they are definitely the authority on who should be thought of as the best players in the league, the tattoos are normal, he's normal' Like !??? Hello???

yea i personally have a lot of questions about the moriyamas as they’re presented to us in canon. i think they’re a very confusing detail, and also a not-exceptionally well-considered one on account of the unfortunate racial implications

personal take: the moriyamas should have been russian bratva instead of japanese yakuza. it would change absolutely nothing about the story, but would fix a dozen small details that i’ve been leaping through flaming hoops to justify watsonianly in how i flesh out the extended universe

nora is VERY much a character writer, not a world-builder. her characters are SO nuanced and life-like, but her world-building often feels random, disjointed, and unaddressed

that being said though, i don’t think riko’s schtick is really one of these details

calling riko just a “short, West Virginia college freshman” is very uncharitable to exactly what he is. riko is a celebrity, the ward of a celebrity, and he’s been in the media eye since he was born. it would be accurate to compare him (and kevin) to people like blue ivy carter and north west kardashian, children of a-list, instantly-recognizable celebrities who got added to their guardians’ brand as children. blue ivy is nine-years-old and has already won a grammy

(i don’t want to imply that either the knowles-carter or the kardashian-west family, or any other celebrity i might mention here are abusive like the moriyama family. while there are plenty of concerns about the psychology of child stars, i’m not talking about their personal lives or the way these children are being raised, because that’s none of my business. i’m talking about them from the perspective of their media visibility and the legitimacy that gives them with the public)

journalists LOVE celebrity kids. every argument and wardrobe choice is headline news in a-list houses, and why some celebrities (like famously michael jackson) have to go to such extreme measures to give their kids even a modicum of privacy, because they're hounded by reporters and photographers every time they step outside.

tetsuji, however, took much more of the joe jackson approach and turned his nephew and ward into a public brand and set them loose on the media circuit as soon as he was able

you have to think about exy as a global movement, one with two distinct figureheads at the helm. it came out of nowhere and completely reshaped the world of sports in an extremely short amount of time. think of kayleigh and tetsuji as being like mark zuckerberg or steve jobs: innovators and figureheads

and even if they’re “just” sports celebrities, they’re sports celebrities on a tier with people like babe ruth, michael phelps, tom brady, serena williams, usain bolt, lance armstrong, the rock, muhammed ali, john cena. people whose sports celebrity is SO great their names enter the mainsteam. that’s the MINIMUM level of fame and influence they have

it's no stretch of the imagination for me to think that the Princes of Exy brand was inextricable with the rapid growth and popularity of the sport. kevin and riko were mascots, ambassadors, and symbols, not just for the ravens but for exy itself. the sport viewed as coming of age alongside them

even if it seems ridiculous to us from outside their universe, inside it people have been hearing about the Perfect Court for over ten years. it’s something their sportscasters and news anchors talk about. you’ve heard it on every early-morning and late-night talk show. it’s a tagline on the covers of magazines and up on billboards. every little league kid who picks up an exy racket dreams that they’ll be the next pick and wear that three or four on their jersey

riko and kevin may have been two of the most famous children in the world

and with celebrity comes extensive forgiveness of... “eccentricity.” remember when jared leto started a cult and everyone just,,, let that happen? gwyneth paltrow’s new age wellness pseudoscience brand? tom cruise is literally a scientologist? even if it’s absolutely ridiculous, it’s okay if a celebrity does it

in-universe, riko isn’t just a “good athlete,” he’s a house-hold name with a consistent vision, every tool at his disposal to get it done, a massive platform of people listening to his every word, and the mainstream media spreading it for free

some tattoos at 16? that’s nothing. ESPECIALLY if they’d been drawing them on for years before

once you think about these things in the context of things that are familiar to us, rather than strange and random and contextless the way they (admittedly) come across in canon, riko starts to make a little more sense

also, while i think it could have been pushed more, i think that nora actually did a pretty decent job of conveying this idea of Celebrity as a theme in the books. there are a lot of very consistent references to kevin and riko’s fame and influence. however, because of how much of an unreliable narrator with such a narrow scope of interest neil is, it’s a detail that can slide past you especially if you haven’t read the books in a while and you mostly engage in the fandom. fandoms tend to be character driven, not theme driven, so a lot of the recurring themes and imagery of a work tend to get lost over time

however i try to keep in touch with the canon. the last time i fully read the books was less than a year ago (and i’ve been in the fandom for like,, 5 years?) and i fact check it often for posts, meta, and fic beta-ing. at some point i’d really like to do a series of scene breakdowns and literary analysis of the lesser-acknowledged themes bc ideas like Celebrities In The Public vs Private are interestingly approached and i think we’re missing out a bit by only talking about them from a character-first perspective

i think one thing i would LOVE about getting some kind of visual-media adaptation of aftg (animated series or visual novel preferred) would be all the passive worldbuilding we could get that neil declines to describe to us. things like billboards and magazine covers and t-shirts and commercials for exy and the Princes of Exy in particular. i really think it would push so much more dimension and context into the story for us to really SEE these things

#aftg #tfc #kevin day #riko moriyama #kayleigh day #tetsuji moriyama #meta #my posts #my meta #im talkin #long form post #ask

[twh-news]

Interview: Makeup Artist Douglas Noe on Loki’s Looks Through the Years & Creating Anew for ‘Loki’ [EXCLUSIVE]

Douglas Noe has been in Hollywood for three decades. An award-winning makeup artist, he’s worked on projects such as World War Z, Planet of the Apes, Spider-Man 3, I Saw the Light, and Birth of a Nation. On top of these impressive credits, he’s also been Tom Hiddleston’s personal makeup artist since joining the MCU in The Avengers, designing all of the looks for Loki’s subsequent appearances.

Noe has been nominated for three Emmys with one win, and five Makeup Artist and Hairstylist (MUAHS) Awards resulting in two MUAHS awards. His skills include creating making natural and period looks, prosthetics, hair, and tattoos.

Along with being the head of the makeup department for the most recent Disney+ series Loki, Noe is also creating looks for the new Netflix comedy series True Story starring Kevin Hart and Wesley Snipes.

We had a chance to chat with Douglas Noe about his work on Loki, The Avengers, the incomparable value of teamwork on set, and most importantly, Richard E. Grant.

Nerds and Beyond: So you started your Marvel journey with The Avengers, but what drew you to your field in the first place? And how did you get your start?

Douglas Noe: Star Wars was a huge influence to me as a young boy, both sketching and drawing, and a little bit of sculpting but not much. Cut to 1983, Michael Jackson’s “Thriller” comes out and I find a magazine called Fangoria on the newsstands where I can order blood and wax and pencils and fake hair. So, I started playing with these things. I was also taken with the horror movie craze that was happening in the early 80s — Nightmare on Elm Street and Friday the 13th, and others, obviously.

In High School, in 1984, I joined choir thinking I would get an easy credit, but my voice had not changed. So the choral instructor had been waiting for a boy soprano to do a theatrical opera presentation. So with that I sang the lead, I quit choir after that, because my peers were merciless, but, I learned the world of theatrical makeup which I hadn’t been introduced to.

I did years of theater. I went to a performing arts high school — it’s called Fort Hayes School for the Performing Arts in Columbus, Ohio — graduated, went to beauty school, and continued working in Ohio doing industrial, commercial, theater, and opera [makeup]. Worked for Maybelline and Revlon, got restless, worked in Cincinnati on my first film in the summer of 1990, it was July so 31 years ago, A Rage in Harlem. And my boss said you come to Los Angeles, I’ll make sure you get on your feet.

Nerds and Beyond: So you mentioned that it’s been about 31 years since your career started, what’s changed over the course of those 30 years in your field?

Douglas: How much time do we have? I’d say the biggest, biggest change would probably be the way we make these things now. Although another large change, more specific, would be the materials that we use. There’s a constant evolution and reinvention of almost all aspects of the materials that a makeup artist uses. That said, I have to shine a light on the way we do things now with the onset of digital and digital cameras. Shooting on film now has almost completely fallen by the wayside. Film was very forgiving, quite frankly, and now it’s not so forgiving. And because of that, the bar has been raised. The wonderful thing about this journey is watching my peers just get better and better and better, my colleagues rising to meet the challenge of not having anything to hide from with this new way we make films.

Nerds and Beyond: So, sometimes you kind of throw prosthetics to the wayside in favor of a more traditional makeup. How do you make that decision on which one to go with?

Douglas: That’s an excellent question. The decision is based purely on what are we going to see. That’s where I start, what is the lighting? I have a conversation with the director of photography and I find out what is the dynamic. Obviously, I know from the script whether it’s an interior or exterior, or if we’re exterior but we’re going to be on a stage, if it’s day or night. These variables all play into my decision as to whether or not I should rely on my theatrical experience and ability to paint 2D to appear 3D, or go ahead and make small prosthetics and put them where I need to put them and use actual prosthetics in lieu of paint.

That has everything to do with lighting, locations, logistics, and because most of his [Loki’s] wounds appear on his arm and some on his face in the Void, it’s all very moody and very dark. And again, the theatrical quality of the paint is not going to be altered by the changing light, it’s just going to react the same way the rest of the face is going to react. It’s purple light, it’s going to make everything have a purple hue. There was no accounting for any correction that didn’t need to be done. There wasn’t anything wrong with that. It’s real.

Nerds and Beyond: So, you did make up for not only Tom on Loki, but you helped plan out the looks for everybody?

Douglas: Yes, what I do is I surround myself with strong talent. It’s all about team. I designed Wunmi Mosaku, Gugu Mbatha-Raw, Sophia DiMartino, and Tom [Hiddleston]. Regarding the rest of it, Neil Ellis, both Dennis Liddiard and I, added to the elements of his scars and wounds, which you would only see in close-ups.

The rest of it, the parameters are set — Blade Runner to Mad Men — and stay in those confines. And obviously, I choose color palettes for the women and there are parameters set for the men, but then it’s about team. I’m a big one on a team and not putting my thumbprints on other people’s work, but rather build other people up so they feel like they own what they’re doing.

My team consists of artists that also have stronger resumes and quite frankly, skills that exceed mine. It’s the mutual trust that allows us to keep a high level of artistic integrity in every aspect of the job. It also means I get the very best from my team, and it shows on the screen.

So, I didn’t have every look in my hand. Dennis Liddiard designed the Mobius character and I had Ned Neidhardt run with Gugu and turn up the volume on some of the elements that she already possesses that we can play with. Her eyes and lips, I think Ned turned the volume on both. And because we’re shooting in order, it’s a progression in the makeup you did.

Nerds and Beyond: When it came to Sylvie and Loki, when you when you’re doing those, did you try to kind of plan them both to have any similar things to give them a Loki look?

Douglas: It’s a fair question, but the answer is no. So again, I think the characteristics and traits that were going to be similar among them, aside from wardrobe and costume hints, were all character driven. And I did nothing with the makeup and hair to try to make them look or even closely resemble each other.

Nerds and Beyond: I want to kind of back up a little bit to Tom in the first Avengers film. That was by far one of his most standout looks. Can you tell me anything about what went into the creation of that absolutely tormented, haunted look that he had throughout that entire movie?

Douglas: Yeah, and that’s probably one of the elements that, because the character has evolved, we kind of left with Avengers because by the end of Avengers, and we carried it into Endgame, he does have a bit of an edgier look in Avengers, and not many people pick up on it. But the reality is he’s a little sculpted in Avengers.

I remember sculpting his cheekbones and temples, and doing a little play on his forehead for when he’s in the cell on the Helicarrier carrier with all that overhead lighting. I did like a little devil horn shadow, which is so subtle. The only person who’s going to notice is anybody who looks back at it and having read this and knows what to look for, but it is so nuanced and so subtle. And that’s the only place I think we did that. But the rest of him is very much chiseled and sculpted, but it’s a light touch.

And I think, again, as he evolved through the Marvel Universe and into the other movies that was something that was easy to leave behind, because I think that look played directly into his evil desire to rule over Earth. We rested that design element with that storyline.

Nerds and Beyond: It’s very clear too and I’ve always loved looking at that, because I’m a huge fan of the character. I’ve always loved kind of comparing how he looked in that movie to the rest of them.

Douglas: You’re on to me!

Nerds and Beyond: I’m not! I swear [laughs] So, what’s your best method for making the actors comfortable in the makeup chair? And with the final outcome?

Douglas: It’s dialogue; listening, talking to them, talking to their representation, whether it be an agent or a manager, and doing my homework and doing my due diligence to find out what’s going to make them comfortable the moment they walk through the door. I do my homework on them. It’s not just IMDb, it’s an internet search. So, I spend some time on the web and find out who these folks are, and if I find out, for example, they’re not one that likes to talk a lot, well, the writing’s on the wall, we’re not going to talk a lot, we’ll cut to the chase and get to the point. But also, it’s about building a rapport and building a relationship. Also, knowing that, I’ve said this in previous discussions, knowing it’s necessary to get out of the way.

Like if, for example, I’m not a proper fit for somebody, I have to be plugged in, I have to be aware enough to understand that it may not be working before somebody says to me, “Hey, this isn’t gonna work.” So it’s just about being open, especially as Tom’s personal on these projects and running the department, knowing that I don’t get to do everybody. I don’t get to put my thumbprint on other people’s work. Because not only is that disrespectful, it’s very often unnecessary, because I hire good people. I hire contemporaries and peers. Truly, you’re only as good as your weakest crew member. I surround myself with good people.

So, take Owen Wilson, for example, it would have been wonderful to do Owen’s makeup, but there were times when he was not going to be shooting with Tom and I was going to need to be ready for Tom or available to Tom, so it didn’t make sense. So I never touched Owen, I had Dennis Liddiard design that look and run with it. And then Ned Neidhardt took over that look when Dennis had to depart. That’s just one example of not trying to do everything.

Another one was the Classic Loki. I wanted to do Richard E. Grant’s [makeup] so bad, I can’t even tell you. I’ve been a huge fan since 1987. I wanted so badly to bring that full circle, didn’t make sense. It just didn’t make sense. So again, I never touched him. It wasn’t necessary. Ned was always there. And I think the same thing happened to me on Ragnarok reshoots, which I ran in Atlanta again with Dennis Liddiard. I wanted so badly to do Sir Anthony Hopkins makeup, but it didn’t make sense. So I was happy to hand it off to Bill Myer.

Nerds and Beyond: Oh man, I loved Richard E. Grant in this show so much.

Douglas: He’s amazing.

Nerds and Beyond: He’s so good!

Douglas: He really is. And he’s that good in person. He’s just so fun and interesting and alluring and attractive. He’s such a wonderful, wonderful person and, of course, a phenomenal actor.

Nerds and Beyond: I was watching little videos that he posted and he just seems like the warmest person.

Douglas: You know, just one last tidbit about Richard Grant is he’s got wonderful stories and as he’s telling them he’ll often stop and pause and just laugh. Just laugh, not for the sake of the stories or for anybody that he’s telling the story to, but because recounting the story brings him true joy. So he’ll stop and embrace that joy. Oh, it’s so wonderful.

Nerds and Beyond: That’s so amazing to hear. What is the most memorable job that you’ve done?

Douglas: The most memorable … That’s a tough one because I have so many fond memories of so many projects. The first Avengers film was memorable because there was a buzz, there was a vibration, a frequency, that was in the air when we were shooting that. We kind of knew we were making something big and something special. I don’t think any of us knew how big or how special it would be, but that certainly is one of the most memorable and most special projects.

I’m pretty good about focusing on the positive aspects of all these things, regardless of how difficult the project may be for whatever reason. The pros always, always heavily outweigh the cons, but I have a lot of wonderful, memorable experiences. Another one, it’s the polar opposite only because of the conditions in which we shot, but Birth of the Nation was one of the most memorable and exceptional experiences of my career. I was on the wrong side of 40, had 25 years of experience, and had still never worked so hard in my entire life. We did a 50-day shoot in 27 days. So proud of the work we did.

It was 100 degrees with 99 percent humidity, we shot it in the summer in Georgia, in Savannah, so it was hot, humid, and just getting the makeup necessary to be on individuals to stay put was its own challenge. And then the other challenges only added to that. But Nate Parker, the director, writer, producer, and lead actor, he is a special human being. And he was inspiring from start to finish. Usually, the first people in are the teamsters, transport department, and usually I’m second. He beat me in almost every single day. He’s in three hours before he needs to be. That was a very special experience.

Nerds and Beyond: Finally, are you excited about the news of Loki Season 2?

Douglas: I’m beyond thrilled! I invite being in the dark a little bit, I kind of like surprises and I like not knowing, so I suspected, but hearing the news confirmed, I was thrilled, naturally. What are they going to dream up? This is amazing. How do you top season 1 of Loki? That’s the burning question.

#loki #loki series #douglas noe #interview #article #nerds and beyond

[simonsrosebud]

the one where someone doesn’t know who kevin day is, pt. 5

part one two three four

extra kalton content

games are over for the rest of the winter, and since winter break doesn’t officially start for another week it means that kevin spends most of his time at dalton’s apartment.

which, to be frank, isn’t any different than normal.

what is different, is that now kevin has much more free time to worry about meeting dalton’s family. how did he let himself get roped into staying there for a week?

oh right. because he’s trying to be a good boyfriend. and being a good boyfriend means doing this for dalton because it’s important to him. that’s probably why it’s stressing him out.

kevin flinches when a carrot hits his cheek. “come back to the present, will you?”

he drops his head back against the sofa. “sorry. i zoned out.”

and when dalton is dropping him off at his class for his first final of the semester, “are you okay?”

kevin shrugs. “i’m nervous about meeting your family.” he looks at dalton’s lap instead of his face.

dalton puts the car in park and leans over the center console to kiss his cheek. he stays there for a moment. “i know it won’t help to say there’s nothing to worry about, but it’s still true. they’ll love you because i love you.”

oh.

oh.

what?

“what?” kevin drags his stare up to dalton’s face. he’s smiling, he knows exactly what he’s done.

and dalton takes kevin’s face in his hands. “i love you. and i don’t expect you to say it back, and me saying it probably isn’t helping to make you less nervous, but thinking about me loving you is probably nicer than thinking about meeting my family.” he kisses kevin. “you gotta go, kev.”

kevin’s mouth is still hanging a little, and when he drags himself out of the car he leans into the open window. “you-you’re just gonna spring that on me and leave?”

“yep. and you’re going to think about it when you’re doubting yourself taking this exam.” he puts the car in drive, and blows him a dramatic kiss. “text me when you’re done?”

“no- i mean, yes, but-“

“good luck, love you!” and he drives off.

kevin watches his car until it turns the corner, and tugs at his hair before going inside.

he may have failed his exam, he may not have. he can’t really tell. either way, he lies a little to dalton when walking out. just got done, still have to wait for the class to end the exam before we can leave.

that kinda sucks. just txt me when ur done

kevin doesn’t know who to call, but his thumb eventually lands on abby.

“hey. are you okay? i feel like you never call me,” she laughs, and kevin grimaces. he should do it more often, then.

“i’m just stressed about something and… you’re the only person i thought to call.” he sits on a nearby bench outside his building. before abby can say anything he gets back to it. “dalton said i love you this morning and i don’t know what to do about it.”

“well, kevin, you don’t have to do anything about it. you can say it back? if you feel the same way?”

he does. he thinks. does he? is it just him thinking he should say it back because it’s the nice thing to do? he and thea never said it.

kevin shakes his head. his relationship with thea was toxic and a little fabricated.

kevin freezes. he’s never said i love you to someone and meant it. he takes a deep breath. he’s so fucked up. he knows he’s fucked up and it makes his head spin, but he can’t dwell on it because more of his reality would crash around him, and he’s already working through enough of it with bee behind the scenes.

“kevin?”

“i’m here. i don’t know if i feel the same, yet.”

“i know. you don’t have to say it. you can wait until you’re ready, or you don’t ever have to say it if you never feel it. he seems nice, i mean, i’d surely think that he’d be okay with you waiting?”

why did he call her? no one really knows his relationship but him.

he calls dalton. “i’m out, now. can you take me to the stadium?”

kevin shoots on an empty goal, hounding balls at cones for what’s probably close to two hours before the door opens.

wymack looks at him expectantly. “remember when betsy said you shouldn’t be spending more time here than necessary? like you did last year with the god-awful night practices?”

kevin plants the end of his racquet to the ground. “i had a lot on my mind.”

wymack retreats back through the hall. kevin follows. “should i be playing dad or coach right now?”

kevin doesn’t think he’ll ever get used to him saying things like that. about being his father. it’s not like he ever thought of him as just his coach, the day he found out that david wymack was his father that’s all he’s been able to think of him as in his head. the reality of it is just… different. shocking, even now.

“both?” wymack turns, an eyebrow raised. “dalton told me he loves me. i can’t say it back yet, so i don’t know what to say to him when i see him.”

he crosses his arms. “hey, dalton, you know i’m basically head over heels for you as anyone can tell, but i can’t say i love you yet because i’ve got shit up here that i need to settle first.” and after a moment. “too coach?

kevin shrugs. “it’s what i expected.”

it’s close enough to what he tells dalton, too. just without the head over heels and softer wording of “i’m fucked in the head”.

and he feels a little lighter when dalton kisses him and tells him it’s okay. “i told you you don’t have to say it. are you uncomfortable with me saying it again? do you want me to wait?”

and he doesn’t want to- or know how to say no, i need you to keep saying it until i believe you. i need you to keep saying it so i don’t forget. so that i know you mean it.

instead, he shrugs. he’s been shrugging so much lately. he’ll turn into neil. “i like hearing it.”

“kay.” dalton smiles. “i love you, then.”

he wasn’t planning on telling dalton anything past that, but then they start making out, and dalton lies him down, and he panics. “hey.” he says.

dalton has his lips on his neck. “hey.”

“no, hey, stop, d.” and he’s off of him quicker than he can comprehend.

“are you okay?”

“yeah,” he breathes. “no, i’m fine, i just…” he sits up. “i… can’t say i love you yet because i’ve never said it to anyone.”

“i’ve only been in two other real relationships before this, that’s okay-“

“no, i mean.” he sighs. “when i was... with the ravens, you know... saying i love you, or even like, oh love you man to a friend just... wasn’t something that-that we did. especially the way i was raised, i may have said it to a friend once or twice. but i don’t...” he looks up, and dalton feels pain in his chest from the pure vulnerability in his eyes. he slides his hands up gently to kevin’s face as he whispers, “i don’t think i’ve ever said i love you to anyone and meant it.”

“hey,” he whispers back. “that’s okay, kev. that’s okay.” he hugs him and kevin takes the biggest breath ever as he tucks his face into dalton’s shoulder.

and two weeks later, kevin’s standing on the porch of the miller family home in bowie, maryland.

he glances down at the address in his notes. this is the right one.

he should have let dalton pick him up from the airport. he knows he feels bad about it, but he didn’t want him to see how nervous he was.

he knocks on the door.

it opens after a few moments. a girl almost his height stands inside the door, and kevin panics. “hi.”

but she grins. “hi! you’re kevin! come in!” she steps back and it’s so fucking warm in the house compared to outside. “i’m so excited you’re here, dalton told us all about youuu” she coos as she leads him further into the house. dalton is shouting as he runs across the kitchen to turn down the stove to stop something from boiling over, and when he turns he grins.

“kevin!” he very obviously tries not to run over to hug him, and almost lifts kevin off his toes. “how long have you been here?” he whispers.

“twenty seconds.”

“oh good. okay. how was your flight?” he shrugs. “okay, cool, uh, let’s take your bag to my room.”

dalton kind of rushes them downstairs. his room and a spare bedroom are the only ones down there, and when he shuts the door behind them he takes a deep breath. “i’m sorry. i’m really nervous. my family’s kind of loud and my sisters are those people who just kind of act like they’ve known you for a while within five minutes of meeting you, so they probably won’t care to be weird in front of you. and my dad acts real tough and he’ll do the dad thing from movies and hammer you” kevin has no idea what he’s talking about. “um, and my sisters are annoying and if they bitch at each other just ignore it- it’s just what they do. and i just-”

“dalton it’s fine!” kevin shrugs out of his coat. “you forget i’ve lived with andrew, nicky, and neil. every awkward or tense moment is created because of them.”

he also knows how to school his expression in strange situations. again, he’s grown up in the spotlight.

so dalton leads him back upstairs where his mother is standing at the stove and his two sisters are at the table leaned close and whispering. they stop and both turn when the boys come up. “sorry, stole him for a second. um, mom, this is kevin.”

“oh, call me anne. it’s so nice to finally meet you! dalton’s told us plenty.”

“you as well. i’m just glad i was able to come out here this winter.” he’s got on his press smile on instinct. he’s so nervous, he feels like he’s sweating.

“i’m carmen, this is bella!” the girls wave from their spots at the table, and before he can say hello carmen speaks up again. he’s not complaining. “so you play exy? bella plays exy.” bella elbows her. “what!”

“i really don’t. i joined intramural at school so my friend wouldn’t be alone. i’m really bad.”

“not terrible, he could teach you some moves. he’s incredible.” now kevin shoots dalton a look. “what.”

“no, it’s okay, i mean i know who you are.” kevin’s stomach drops a little. “not like- i know that you’re famous for exy, i don’t like know you.”

kevin’s trying hard not to regret coming. why did he think he could act normal with someone else’s family?

but surprisingly, things smooth out after a few more minutes of painstaking conversation. granted, after kevin meets dalton’s father after comes home.

“kevin day. it’s a pleasure to meet you, sir.” he’s proud of his handshake, but mr. miller doesn’t pay it any mind.

“george. nice to meet you.” he nods, and grabs a bottle from the fridge. “beer? dalt, you get him a drink?”

kevin stiffens as he sits back at the table. “i don’t drink, sir.”

george frowns for a moment. he doesn’t remember how old dalton said he was. “you’re not underage, are you?” only three years younger, right?

“no, i just don’t drink.” anymore.

“fair enough.” he sits back at the table, and gestures towards his face. “see you’ve got a tattoo. why the face?”

“dad!” carmen is doing homework on her laptop, but looks up with a shocked look on her face. “don’t be rude,” she mumbles.

“i’m just asking!”

kevin honestly doesn’t know who to go by, but he feels his dad is the right route. “it’s a cover up. the one under it was a cocky premature thing with... uh, my, my-”

“his kind of brother.” kevin wishes carmen would butt out. but he has to play nice.

“oh! i’m sorry, i thought dalton said you were an only child.” and his dad actually seems sorry that he got his information wrong, despite it not even coming up yet, that kevin feels bad. he balls his fists under the table.

“we weren’t related. i just grew up with him. my family situation is... complicated.”

george holds his hands up after a speedy glancing at dalton. kevin thanks god for whatever face dalton must have made at him. “not my business to intrude. forget i asked about the face.”

and then things smooth out. they eat dinner, and kevin helps put dishes into the dishwasher to boost his morale with anne before joining dalton and his sisters in the living room. he sinks into the couch. dalton looks bored at what bella has on, the history channel, but kevin zones in on it. he tends to watch it a lot when andrew and neil aren’t there. or while he’s doing homework.

an hour in, both kevin and bella are enamored by whatever segment they’re playing. when dalton gets up to grab a drink, carmen smiles to herself and tosses a mini pretzel at bella, it lands on her sleeve, but she doesn’t notice.

she shakes her head. she does the same to kevin. it lands in his hood, and when he doesn’t move to take it out carmen leans forward.

dalton walks back in and lingers when he sees her. “you ever watch these two watch the history channel?” he frowns. what? “you could cut the sexual tension with a knife!”

bella snaps and kicks carmen. dalton rolls his eyes and sits with his head in kevin’s lap. carmen looks at him with a challenging brow. dalton isn’t going to let her win her little experiment.

he leans up and kisses kevin’s chin. “wanna go downstairs?”

kevin slides his hand into dalton’s hair, looks down at him for a moment. “soon. there’s still twenty minutes left.”

dalton’s jaw drops. carmen cackles.

at least he’s fitting in.

the rest of kevin’s trip to maryland at dalton’s family home are when they go to NYC for a day, and when he and dalton are just lounging around at the house and kevin says i love you

#kevin day x dalton miller #the one where someone doesn’t know who kevin day is #kevin day #kevin #bisexual kevin day #dalton miller #oc: dalton miller #the foxhole court #the foxes #exy #aftg #all for the game #the raven king #the kings men #palmetto state foxes #palmetto state university #palmetto state #ravens #moriyama’s

[aftgficrec]

U have any fix like we destroy everything we need by monochrome_madness? Preferably something unconventional exploring the darker aspect of humanity

haunt--me asked:

Hi!! Your blog has been so helpful to me so I have a fic to recommend!! It is very dark and chaotic and strange, written like poetry with an undercurrent of malevolence running through. Its enchanting how all of the words spin together to craft a spider web of pure poetry and heartache. It explores mental illnesses and the portrayal is perfection. Called "we destroy everything we need" by monochrome_madness

We always welcome fic recs! The fic mentioned really has a unique style - which is great, but consequently this means it is a little harder to find other fics that compare to it. Nevertheless, we’ve done our best to find you some material depicting the darker side of life with more unconventional elements. - S

The following tags might also lead you to fics that suit you:

butcher!Neil

butcher!Andrew

raven!Neil

mental health issues

For your consideration...

find darkness here:

dark academia aus here

deadly class aus here

A Dark Neil here

Raven/Butcher!Neil to Fox here

scary Neil here

‘appendages’ here

‘Ignominy’ here

‘Shinigami’ here

...and add a little more here:

‘dreaming on fire’ series here

‘Adronitis’ series and ’A Soliloquy For Stolen Hearts’ here

‘I’ll make you a crown with rubies of pomegranate’ here

‘skeletons in the water’ here

‘Foxes in Arkham’, ‘Lifelines’ and ‘both hungry and awake’ here

‘The War Behind Your Face; And I'll Express My Inner Rage’ here

‘The Reaper’ and ‘A TALE OF A MARTYR IN XII PARTS’ here

‘(don’t fear) the reaper)’ here

‘Metanoia’ here

we destroy everything we need by monochrome_madness [Rated T, 4580 words, incomplete, last updated Jan 2020]

“There is a halo in Andrew Minyard’s mouth,” Neil purrs, his words laced with poison.

He turns his eyes towards Renee. A fire rages. Her skins sears.

“and the beast within me likes how it burns.”

tw: rape/noncon, tw: nonconsensual drug use, tw: blood, tw: hallucinations, tw: alcoholism, tw: self harm

you say i'm a dreamer, but i'm not the only one series by Idnis [Rated T/M, 65417 words, complete, 2017]

part 1: you say i'm a dreamer, but i'm not the only one. (M, 58259 words)

Neil Josten wouldn’t say his life was very magical.

His dreams on the other hand.

They always seem too real.

And then there's the fact that he finds himself returning to one person's dreams.

tw: violence, tw: implied/referenced self harm, tw: implied/referenced child abuse, tw: nightmares, tw: blood, tw: guns, tw: knives, tw: implied/referenced csa, tw: panic attacks

part 2: dreams (T, 5158 words)

A short story from Andrew's point of view. Ties in with 'you say i'm a dreamer, but i'm not the only one'.

tw: blood, tw: implied/referenced torture

The Dream Keeper by minyards (carxies) [Rated M, 13022 words, incomplete, last updated June 2021]

Ever since he could remember, Andrew experienced people’s pasts as they had – from their point of view, for they were not able to process the reality any other way. He touched them and in a dream, his soul joined the rightful one in a stranger’s body. Through their eyes, he had lived a thousand nameless lives. Over the years, he had forgotten not even one of them, his mind storing them like they had been his own.

Then, Kevin introduced him to Neil Josten.

tw: mentions of blood, tw: implied/referenced murder

The Moriyama's Dog by JellyTits_Hoe [Rated E, 16548 words, incomplete, last updated July 2021]

Nathaniel can’t move a muscle and he doesn't even know if he would if he could. He’s in such a petrified state that he could barely even hear his father's words. All he can hear and feel is his heart beating in his chest. Lola giggles so loud Nathaniel knows she did it so he could hear her loud and clear. The screaming stopped a while ago. Nathaniel can’t really point out when. Perhaps it was when he started to go numb all over.

-

In which Nathaniel Wesninski never escaped and instead became Ichirou Moriyama's personal dog.

tw: blood, tw: graphic depictions of violence, tw: implied/referenced murder, tw: implied/referenced child abuse, tw: implied/referenced csa, tw: depression, tw: hallucinations

Unstitch That Shed-Off Soul by JRaylin441 [Rated M, 10024 words, complete, 2021]

Historically, promises from anyone else have meant about as much as blowing on a forest fire to put it out, but fuck that, actually. Andrew is a machine fueled by spite, but he knows that spite isn’t going to last him very long, not when he can feel exhaustion and anger dragging at every step he takes. Now, he has a promise, and he’s going to keep it like it’s the last thing motivating him to stay alive.

Here is his good thing: a twin brother.

Here is the price: he’s going to kill his mother.

tw: implied/referenced child abuse, tw: rape/noncon, tw: self harm, tw: car accidents, tw: panic attacks, tw: dissociation, tw: suicidal ideation, tw: homophobia, tw: withdrawal

A Thousand Lifetimes Over by demesh [Rated T, 51101 words, complete, 2021]

Neil's been having strangely vivid dreams, about him and some blond boy, for months now. He didn't think much of them, until the day he got to Palmetto and saw that very same boy looking right back at him.

Despite having never seen him before, Neil could swear he knew him. And he could tell that boy was keeping something from him.

Whatever it was, Neil was determined to find out. He just wasn't prepared for what it might cost him.

A reincarnation AU.

tw: violence, tw: fire, tw: temporary major character death, tw: nightmares, tw: implied/referenced torture, tw: self harm, tw: suicidal ideation

#fic #Neil Josten/Andrew Minyard #Kevin Day/Neil Josten/Andrew Minyard #Neil Josten/Ichirou Moriyama #universe: canon divergent #au: butchere!Neil #au: reincarnation #au: dark academia #au: magic #au: fantasy #au: different first meeting #theme: angst with a happy ending #theme: dark #theme: dreams #theme: hopeful ending #theme: mental health issues #tw: rape/noncon #tw: suicide ideation #tw: violence #tw: self harm #tw: temporary character death #tw: implied/referenced child abuse #tw: implied/referenced torture #tw: homophobia #tw: withdrawal #tw: panic attacks #tw: hallucinations #tw: blood #haunt--me #les-dieux-sont-mort

[writingpuddle]

(responding to your tags bc it's interesting and i've been thinking about it a lately) andrew isn't necessarily less violent when medicated be he definitely follows through more when he's sober? and he gets distracted much more easily from being angry when he's medicated. in the first book he smacks neil with the exy racket, but it seems more like an impulse than planned, and then we see him threaten people twice (nicky and kevin) but not follow through, also on impulse, his plan to drug neil, which is carried out semi-sober, and that's about it. (he also threatens to hurt himself but doesn't follow through, impulse as well) after easthaven he pretty much immediately chokes allison and has to be bargained with to stop, punches matt, threatens katelyn, chokes kevin and has to be physically pulled off him before he stops, attempts to physically fight the fbi, nearly punches neil, and breaks rikos arm. idk i wouldn't say he's like, nonviolent on medication by any means but i think it did defang him in the way the court intended it to, for the most part. he does genuinely seem to lose interest in following through in the first part of the books, and he gains that focus back in the latter half. obv this isn't like, an ironclad theory and also it's possbile i'm missing smth bc this is off the top of my head, but i also think that as far as it cosmetically looking like it's making a difference it could just about pass muster for a parole officer who's making sure there haven't been any extra murders yet.

sorry this is super long i just have many thought thank u for ur time

oh my GOD do not apologize for sending me this i am so happy to see all your thoughts and i think its totally fascinating. i am 100% with you on the fact that sober andrew has more follow-through--hitting someone who hit someone else like...yesterday is a very pre-meditated, almost clinical sort of violence. there's no real emotion to it, it's just methodical punishment, and drugged andrew seems like he would respond at least less reliably with violence since the drugs would wash away his immediate emotional reaction by the time he ran into matt again.

so its more a matter of...is clinical violence more violent than impulsive violence? which is why i would want to actually like. collect all the incidents and compare them not just in number but severity. because of the nature of plot, a lot of really insane shit happens in late in the series when andrew is sober, versus many of the triggers for his violence when he's drugged are a lot less serious; nicky making an off-colour joke, kevin being pushy about exy. it's hard to directly compare that to like, someone andrew loves being kidnapped and presumably murdered. i couldnt confidently say if drugged andrew would react with less violence to that situation because drugged andrew never encounters a situation that serious (excepting drake, in which case its a) against himself, who he doesnt value as much as his family b) he's too physically injured to do much other than hold on to aaron).

(actually speculating about how drugged andrew might have responded to baltimore is an interesting puzzle--but then its begs the question of how neil and andrews relationship might have evolved if andrew was still drugged, since i personally hc that andrew isnt comfortable with engaging in sexual activity when he's high)

BASICALLY i could make a case for either side really, because its so ambiguous. i can kind of see how andrews sober, methodical and premeditated violence would be more frightening to people than the emotionally impulsive one-off incidents that happen when he's drugged, but the volatile nature of andrews moods when he's on his medications do not seem super safe either.

i think tho we can agree that andrews medications werent really about his own mental health--they were about controlling his behaviour. whether they worked or not...unclear. whether they were ethical or not? hell no.

ugh. next time i read the books im gonna have to use sticky notes to keep track of all the incidents. im gonna have a goddamn spreadsheet of andrew behaviours.

#guys i think i need a life. #sinistercacophony #asks #andrew minyard #medication tw #mental health #idk how to tag this but if its upsetting plz let me know #drake spear #reference to noncon

[primatechnosynthpop]

NKotR overanalysis masterpost time. These range from things that I've been pondering for a year and a half to things that occurred to me like a couple months ago, and a lot of it is just spitballing that's not meant to be taken completely seriously, but bear with me here

I've said this before but it bears repeating: I think the in-universe new kids have much smaller social circles than irl. Consider how many of their irl friends and relatives play antagonists or characters with little connection to them. It's not like they're completely antisocial or resistant to making new friends (they even try to be civil with Spencer at first) but at the end of the day they ~only have each other~ (tm) in a way that's definitely not the case for their irl counterparts.

Unless Neil is the son of the president (which I wrote into CF2kAI but which I hardly see being the case in canon) then we don't know what his in-fiction family is like. He seems rather spoiled and self-centered, which is kind of an only child vibe (I say this as an only child myself) so his family is probably smaller overall than irl too. It's unclear whether he has any other friends. That said, Neil seems fairly content in his relative solitude-- exemplified in his introductory scene, where he needs repeated prompting to stop watching tv and eating cereal by himself and go hang out with his friends.

From Kevin's introductory scene we know he at least hangs out with other people on a regular basis and is or was on a football team (which apparently won the super bowl, love that for him!) He also seems to be the most well-adjusted person overall. But his remark in episode 2 that an exploding clown represents his mother suggests that his mother is dead or otherwise left his life in a sudden and traumatic manner. His remark in episode 4 that Old Man Cooper "busting [their] chops" is "an old man thing" implies a familiarity with the elderly, suggesting he could have been raised by grandparents or other older relatives. The girlfriend mentioned in episode 2 never comes up again, so she may well have left him after finding out about his date with Wendy.

Finally, the fact that Neil knows more about Ryan's family than Ryan himself does actually makes sense if you consider that them all being "completely insane" probably means they were institutionalized. Ryan appears to live alone (despite having two beds in his room) and not have many friends but have the desire to attain them, based on him talking to a painting in his introductory scene. The un-narrated blurb about him in the book from Ryan's Christmas Wish states "he'd spend winters in a secret chamber, emerging only at dawn to crow at the rising sun"-- a very animalistic habit, suggesting he may have been a feral child raised by wildlife. This could also be why he stands out as so strange compared to other humans.

Other thoughts:

We see Neil acting out a Potter Puppet Pals skit in episode 3, but it's unclear if it's actually intended to be posted online, and none of the songs he sings in NKotR are diegetic, so there's nothing to indicate he has a musical career either. If I had to guess I'd say he has all the same talents as his irl counterpart, but less of an audience. Since in this universe filmmaking is, in his own words, what they do for a living, they might have less time to pursue other things

Although Ryan's claim of having "raised" Kevin is dubious given that they're the same age, Ryan telling Neil that "Kevin is filled with bad ideas" does suggest that those two knew each other for a while before befriending Neil

(That said, Ryan's back breaking when Neil steps on a crack in Unlucked does posit him as something of a "mom friend", albeit in an unconventional way)

On that note, I think Kevin and Ryan had previously met Frosty and told Neil about it but Neil had never actually seen him before, hence his reaction

It seems like they make webisodes at a much faster rate in-universe than NKotR episodes came out irl (possibly on a weekly basis?) and not all of them are comedic. From the glimpse of webisode production we get in episode 6 they really don't seem like such great actors, so you have to wonder why they're so popular... unless you assume this series is set in the same universe as Hollywood East!, in which motion pictures were apparently a brand-new invention in 2008. Then it absolutely tracks that this is the best cinema anyone in Plymouth has seen.

It's also implied that their show is wildly successful and they even got a bestselling line of action figures. With this in mind, I doubt the in-universe Hollywood East collapsed the same way it did irl... however, Mitch's sardonic "make any nickelodeons lately?" in Computer Fighters implies that they'd stopped making webisodes in-universe by that point. If anything, the new kids' criminal record may have caught up with them and landed them out of a job

Speaking of being out of a job, it's so funny in "Money Dollar Bills" when Neil says he doesn't have to work, "or go to school". Like dude what happened to finishing your aeronautical engineering degree? I figure either he was only a few days away from getting the degree when he ran out of funds and had to drop out, or (much funnier and more fitting) he went back to university for a week tops, saw Ryan and Kevin having fun without him, and was like ugh I don't wanna go to school >:/ and bribed the department into giving him a diploma

(This is a little self-indulgent but since they have so little money at the start of that storyline and we see Ryan cooking breakfast for all of them I think mayyybe at that point they're all living at their clubhouse together. Found family type of deal!)

We know from one of the headlines scrolling past in the news report segment of Ryan's Christmas Wish, as well as a scrapped ending text crawl for The Money Tree, that Ernest P. Worrell exists as a living human in the NKotR universe. I think he's like a local celebrity who the new kids have maybe met once or twice and they look up to him a lot but they're not really close or anything

Ryan immediately turning on Spencer over onion rings is especially funny when you consider that a couple episodes prior he was the one getting put down for his unorthodox food choices, but if you want to step into the woobification zone for a minute you could say that's exactly why it sets Ryan off... like maybe he sees too much of himself in Spencer in that moment and is like oh no this is why my friends don't always like me, it's because I get sherbert instead of normal ice cream... I need to cut out this part of myself by cutting ties with Spencer. COMPLETELY missing everything that sets him apart from Spencer, and that his friends do like him actually

Important to note that not only is Neil the only one who firmly believes spooky manor is haunted the whole time, he's also the one to announce that Kevin "went on a date with a dead girl" when Wendy's mom claims her daughter is dead. Yes Neil is a man of science but, crucially, he also unequivocally believes in the supernatural

On that note though, since Kevin is such a skeptic about ghosts in episode 4, what did he think was going on with Wendy? Also, you've gotta wonder if he thought he was going to see her again when he died (particularly if he was also hanging around as a ghost for a bit) and was disappointed when he didn't. ALSO gotta wonder if he attained a working proton pack before or after dying... lots of thoughts about death & ghosts or lack thereof

Maybe this is my imagination but the new kids seem to treat each other nicer or at least get more used to each other in the later installments compared to the original run of episodes. In particular, it seems like Neil and Kevin go from being weirded out by Ryan's eccentricities to barely batting an eye at them. And that's what I call character growth... or something

#'hey can't you apply these analytical skills to something that actually warrants this amount of thought?' #hmm interesting idea but did you know that uhhhhh once upon a time there were three cool kids #nkotr

[ghost-in-the-stalls]

I'm pretty sure u dont like kevin so I can say this here, I deadass wish Andrew had just choked Kevin to death. Ppl would probs be even angrier but at least nobody could say andrew apologizes to kevin

Ahajsmfgllhjahsjfkhhla okay thats a bit extreme imo xD

Youre correct that I don't like him that much tho and I do think people fixate on that scene in a very hypocritical way. Like I personally really don't like Kevin so the scene doesn't bother me the way it does others. I get that for fans of the character it might be upsetting.

But even if I'm looking at it from an objective standpoint, there are. So. Many. Shitty. Things. These characters have done to each other. Specifically Andrew and Kevin. They treat each other like shit (in very different ways) in addition to them both being assholes who treat everyone ELSE like shit as well.

Like I absolutely understand and frankly agree with the fact that it was a breach of trust and breaking the promise on Andrew's part but like...... there's also so much other shit between them. Kevin treats Andrew like less than a person. Andrew treats Kevin like a useless incapable coward. Neither of them are helping each other grow and, imo, their relationship is actively harming both of them in very subtle but intense ways. The choking was not particularly out of character or surprising or anything. Nor was it any worse than the scene where Kevin choked Neil or when Andrew choked Allison (both of which were actually witnessed by and described to the reader).

Idk like even when I recognize that I am personally biased against Kevin... even when I take a step back and try to look at it from a characterization standpoint alone... it doesn't make sense for people to be so up in arms about that scene specifically compared to all the other shit in the books.

I do feel that if Andrew and Kevin ever were to like... talk through their shit while growing as people (which isn't really the route I see them taking so much as I see them just... both being better and quietly calming down) then yeah this would be a situation that Andrew would look back at and have to own up to. Just as I also feel Kevin would have a lot of shit he did to andrew that he'd have to own up to.

This is so long but my point is that there's a lot of beef between Andrew and Kevin and they're both at fault for the absolute mud their relationship has rolled through. There isn't the Andrew-over-Kevin power difference people act like there is, nor is one of them more abusive than the other.

#this is #so much im sorry #but damn I'm really sick of it #these are my hot takes lmao sorryyyyyy #maybe ill lose followers or something #or maybe people will block me for iy #whatever as long as people dont send me death threats lmaooooo

[sixofravensandfoxes]

What I thought the AFTG characters were like before reading AFTG:

(I’ve been part of the raven cycle and six of crows fandoms for a while now and because of that I saw a lot of stuff about aftg even tho I hadn’t read it. fast forward to last week where I decided to binge read the entire series and became utterly obsessed<3)

Neil Josten: so I tried to avoid seeing stuff about Neil because I knew he was the main character and pretty much all I knew about him was from the synopsis which said that he was on the run from his murderous father. I thought he was a soft boy who became more ruthless later on in the series probably because I saw him compared to Adam Parrish a lot and I knew he was with Andrew so I thought he was an oblivious bi™️

Andrew Minyard: Andrew was the character I had messed up the most from my skewed exposure to the series. I knew he was short and blond but I also saw fanarts of him being compared to Ronan Lynch so I thought he was Ronan 2.0 (angry but secretly a gay softie inside). I knew he had something going on with medication but I thought it helped combat anger or something like that.

Renee Walker: I had her character completely messed up too. I genuinely thought she was a lesbian and that renison was canon the ENTIRE time and I’m still kinda mad that it isn’t :(. I saw something about her and knives so I assumed she was a badass ‘doesn’t take shit from anyone’ type of girl kinda like Anna Lightwood??

Allison Reynolds: like I said earlier, I genuinely thought renison was canon but I thought Allison was probably bi or something. I thought that SHE was the soft™️ one to renee’s badass but other than that I didn’t really know anything. I thought she was a side character with very few scenes tbh.

Aaron Minyard: I genuinely didn’t know anything about him other than the fact that he was Andrew’s twin and also short and blond. I saw people saying they didn’t like him so I assumed he had some conflict with either Andrew or Neil. I also thought he was a minor character

Nicky Hemmick: I didn’t know anything about him other than the fact that he was the funny one™️ I was not expecting him to be gay tho lol

Kevin Day: I barely knew anything about him except the fact that he was sometimes shipped with Andreil. I didn’t think he was the one Neil had a history with because I thought it was going to be Andrew. I also didn’t expect how close he was with Andrew and lowkey thought there was something between them at first lol

Matt Boyd: I didn’t know anything about him other than the fact that he existed and that he was with Dan. I thought he was gay because I thought Dan was a guy at first.

Dan Wilds: I thought she was a guy at first until I saw fanart later on but I knew she was with Matt and that’s pretty much it.

Riko Moriyama: I didn’t expect him to be Kevin’s adoptive brother but I knew that everyone hated him even tho I didn’t know why lmao

Wymack: the Tired Dad™️ of the group. I didn’t know he was the coach tho I thought he was just the dad friend lol.

Seth Gordon: I didn’t know he was a character until I read the foxhole court lol oops

anyone else I didn’t list I probably didn’t know anything about oops

#the foxhole court #the kings men #the raven king #all for the game #aftg #andreil #renison #neil josten #andrew minyard #renee walker #allison reynolds #nicky hemmick #aaron minyard #kevin day #dan wilds #matt boyd #seth gordon #coach wymack #david wymack #twinyards #tfc #trk #tkm #nora sakavic #palmetto state foxes #palmetto state university #the foxes #jostyard #riko moriyama #kandreil

[foxy-exy]

23 + andriel 👀

Bloom (forget me not)

Prompt 23 from here: “No, we’re going to talk about this now.” (and tattoo artist/piercer Andrew AU also came from Syd!!) TW: lots of talk about scars i’ve been mia working on my very-close-to-my-heart and very-long-compared-to-what-i’ve-been-writing-lately aftg big bang fic (WATCH OUT FOR THAT PLZ) but syd hit me w/ tattoo artist/piercer andrew right when my need for just one (1) tattoo and many (MANY) more piercings was highest so here we are (also my aftg server was talking about flower tattoos on jean and i was like oh worm flower tattoos on aftg characters you say??? so they are also partially responsible) also i may have never actually gotten a tattoo before but this is definitely Not How It Works, unrealistic, unprofessional, and general bad clienting but shhh you can also find this fic on my ao3 here!

Andrew’s pencil scratching is the only sound in the parlor — he thinks maybe his phone died an hour ago and with it, his music playlist. He should probably get up and plug it back in.

The cat eyes glare at him from his sketchpad page, though, and he can’t leave the face half finished now. He swings his chair back around to look at the picture on the shop’s computer screen that he’s sketching. God, this cat is ugly. He wouldn’t want this cat as a sleeve, but what the paying client wants, the paying client gets.

He blocks out the nose and jaw, shakes out his aching hand, and glares back at the drawing as he leans back in the chair and shoves the pencil eraser into his mouth to chew on.

“Hey.”

Andrew sends his sketchpad flying and nearly tips his chair over to turn back around. Nobody ever shows up for random walk-ins this early, it’s why he’s usually the only one on the schedule. (They retain more clients when Andrew is not the one who talks to them. Because Andrew is, as Nicky puts it, an asshole.)

Neil Josten stands before him, dressed as plainly as ever in his standard gray sweatshirt and baggy jeans, looking bemused and out of place in the strange context of Andrew’s workplace. He is not a piercings-and-tattoos kind of person. He is a somewhat-friends-with-Kevin-purely-because-they-like-to-yell-about-sports-together-on-Andrew’s-couch kind of person.

“Thanks for not even setting off the door bells,” Andrew says coolly, around a mouthful of pencil eraser, and takes it from his mouth immediately after, because Neil is smiling a little, eyes on it.

“Sorry, I’m pretty quiet.”

“No, you aren’t,” Andrew says, and Neil’s lips twitch again.

He and Neil are distant acquaintances at best. Kevin shares Andrew and Nicky’s apartment for rent purposes as Aaron moved out months ago to live with his girlfriend, but Kevin and Andrew don’t share friend groups. Even so, it is impossible to ignore Neil Josten when he’s worked up and shouting about Kevin’s favorite teams being terrible.

“What are you here for?” Andrew clicks off the cat photo and pulls up their schedule — empty for several hours, until Kevin comes in for an appointment with somebody who wants some script work. He doesn’t know why Neil is here when Kevin isn’t working, they’re the ones who know each other.

“How much for a…a medusa?”

“Fifty.” Andrew eyes him. The uncertainty in his voice is clear, which is…interesting. “I didn’t think you were into piercings, or Kevin would have bullied you into at least three by now.”

Neil doesn’t answer, because his gaze is glued to Andrew’s arms — his shirt sleeves have ridden up to show the patchwork pieces winding their way up his wrists and forearms.

“And…” This comes out more rushed now, clearly the actual reason for the visit, “What about tattoos?”

Andrew pulls back down his sleeves. “Are you asking for pricing? I can’t give you an estimate without any kind of idea of what you’re looking for. Do you even know the style you want? Where you want it?”

Neil drags his eyes back up to meet Andrew’s. “You covered up Kevin’s old tattoos, didn’t you?”

Andrew folds his arms. Enunciates clearly because he’s never been one to beat around the bush. “Are you looking for a tattoo consultation or not?”

“Yes,” says Neil, and his mouth flattens, brows pinching.

“Glad to see you’re so very excited about it,” Andrew deadpans, opens up an appointment entry on the schedule and types in Neil Josten, tattoo consultation: Andrew Minyard. He snatches up his sketchpad and pencil from the ground and curls a finger at Neil to follow.

***

“You don’t have tattoos to cover up,” Andrew says, when Neil tentatively perches on the edge of the lounge seat in the private office. “What do you want?”

Neil tugs at the fraying cuff of his shirt and looks pained. “I just…I don’t know.”

“That really sucks, because you’re paying me to help you figure out specifics on what you want right now.”

“Can you cover up scars,” Neil mumbles, and Andrew freezes. And Neil must pick up on this, because immediately he says, “Never mind. This was a bad idea.”

Andrew catches Neil’s shirt hem before he can completely turn towards the door. “No, we’re going to talk about this now.”

“I changed my mind, it’s okay, don’t tell Kevin, I just thought maybe —”

“I won’t tell Kevin,” Andrew says.

Neil tugs at his hair.

“I can cover up scars,” Andrew says.

Neil looks back at him, and he is very pale.

And then, because Andrew is stupid, “I’ve covered up my own scars.”

Neil’s face does something very complicated, his hands shake a little, and slowly, carefully, Neil sits back down.

***

Neil doesn’t know what he wants, exactly, he says. He says he likes what he’s seen of Andrew’s work, which isn’t all that helpful.

“Abstract,” Andrew says, and Neil shrugs.

“Animals.” Shrug.

“Skulls,” Andrew says, with a hint of impatience.

“Anything,” Neil says.

“You’re my least favorite client.”

“Even that one with the lion back tattoo?” Neil asks, and he is smiling again. Teasing. Andrew knows that Neil was in the house when he was telling Kevin about that client and his ridiculous whining, but he hadn’t realized Neil had been listening.

“Yes, maybe you’ll overtake even him,” Andrew retorts, reaches for the binder sitting in the corner marked Andrew Minyard — full of his past work — and tosses it at Neil. “I can’t work with ‘anything.’ That’s how people get tattoos they regret.”

“I liked Kevin’s black rose,” Neil says, and flips through the book, lingering on a page with more floral designs. “But you do color, too?”

“That is a style I do, yes.” Andrew watches Neil’s fingers trace delicate petals and fights back a curious rush. “Scar tissue can be unpredictable when it comes to holding ink, and it can hurt. But I’ve had experience with it. Do you want something like that?”

“I like these,” Neil says quietly, and Andrew shoves his pencil eraser back into his mouth and turns resolutely back to his sketchpad so he doesn’t have to look at Neil looking at his work.

“Colored flowers,” he says, drumming fingernails against his paper. “Fine. What flowers do you like? Where would this be?”

“Forget-me-not? On my arm?” Again, Neil sounds uncertain, and Andrew turns a glare on him.

“If you want this, you want this. If you’re not sure, I’m not inking an inch of you.”

He decides he hates looking at Neil’s soft smile when he is on its receiving end. This is the first time it’s happened, and he thinks if it happens again, he should check into a hospital for heart palpitations.

“I want it. Here.” Neil rolls up a sleeve, and Andrew clamps his jaw shut as Neil taps a finger to his forearm, covered in circular red puckers of skin and the occasional, familiar raised line of white. Andrew forces himself to lean closer to examine the canvas with clinical detachment, and press his fingers to the skin, measuring.

“This big?”

“Yeah,” Neil says, and that’s that.

***

“Why the hell was Neil on your schedule?” Kevin asks very loudly from the front desk as Andrew lounges across the waiting room couch and doodles blue petals.

“Huh, Kevin, I don’t see how that’s really any of your business,” Andrew says, and scribbles out another draft.

“No, seriously. He’s never wanted anything before. Why didn’t he tell me?”

“Contrary to what your ego says, not everything is about you,” Andrew drawls.

“Neil,” Kevin barks, and Andrew looks up to find Kevin with his phone to his ear. “Why did you come to see Andrew?”

Neil must apparently say something similar to Andrew’s sentiments because Kevin rolls his eyes. “You should have told me that you wanted something. No, I — he didn’t say anything to me. Neil —!” The last part is said to an apparently dead line, because Kevin pulls the phone away with a huff. “I don’t understand why he came to you without saying anything, I’m his tattoo artist friend.”

“Too bad,” Andrew says, and pulls out his own phone when it buzzes.

Thanks, is the simple text from Neil Josten. For not telling him.

Andrew doesn’t reply, but he tucks his phone between his elbows and pretends to ignore the warmth blooming in his chest as he flips the page and starts to shade another forget-me-not.

***

Do you like this? Andrew asks, and attaches a picture of his latest draft.

Almost immediately, the text is marked as Seen, but Neil doesn’t respond for a solid few minutes.

Finally, Andrew locks his phone again, irritated, and shoves away his sketchpad, feeling too jittery to sleep like he should be doing at — he checks the clock — 2 AM.

His phone chimes, and Andrew looks down at It’s perfect and thinks that having such a giant crush on his apartment mate’s probably uninterested friend is maybe really, really bad.

***

“Hey, Andrew.”

Andrew looks up from the fridge. He has been studiously ignoring Neil’s presence on the couch while Kevin chatters to him about the latest hockey wins. But Kevin has disappeared, and Neil remains, and Neil is…looking at him.

“I like it a lot. Like, fuck, really a lot.”

Andrew glares and slams the fridge closed. Neil’s smile only grows wider as Andrew stalks over to the table to deposit whatever leftovers he grabbed (that he most definitely did not look at) onto it.

“So, when are you free to ink me?”

Andrew’s going to die, and Neil Josten saying when are you free to ink me is going to be the cause of death.

“Tomorrow. 10 AM,” he grits out.

“Okay,” Neil says.

***

“Andrew.”

“Shut up.”

“Andrew,” Neil says again, shakily.

“Don’t.”

“Thank you.” Neil stares at the forget-me-not cluster blooming across pinkened skin underneath the plastic wrap, lips parted. Andrew wants to kiss them.

“Oh,” says Neil when he looks up, and Andrew is still too close, and Andrew would usually probably pull back but instead, he dips closer. And Neil would usually probably avoid physical contact like he does with everyone but instead, Neil kisses him back.

“Oh,” Andrew agrees, and starts to turn away, but Neil shifts with him, eyes too intense, and a finger hovers at Andrew’s collar to tug very lightly.

“When would be too soon to ask when you’re free again?”

“Has the tattoo bug bitten you already?” Andrew scoffs, and Neil looks down at his forget-me-not and nods. “You’ll have to schedule an appointment like everybody else. You’re lucky my schedule hasn’t been as booked lately.”

“Okay,” says Neil, and then, “and what about asking when you’re free outside of work?”

Andrew stares at him. “For?”

“What about a repeat of this kind of thing?” Neil gestures between them. “Or…lunch, on me?”

“Lunch, on me,” says Andrew automatically. “You just gave me a lot of money.”

“Okay,” says Neil again, and laughs. “Kevin’s going to be so pissed that he missed all this happening.”

“I don’t see why I have to tell him who I’m kissing,” Andrew says.

“You’ve only done it once.”

Andrew raises an eyebrow and fixes that grievous mistake.

Neil’s answering grin is not soft, just impish, but it does things to Andrew’s heart all the same.

#andreil #andrew minyard #neil josten #the foxhole court #all for the game #aftg #tfc #aftg fanfic #tfc fanfic #all for the game fanfic #the foxhole court fanfic #fanfic #xcazzy #kay answers #scars tw #kay fanfic #kaystuff #ficlet #off the court

[buriedinbaltimore]

for the ask game- nicky is one of the most underrated characters in aftg (in my opinion)- what do you think?

First - thanks for participating! (especially because I had two answers to asks I sent other people in my inbox that tumblr decided not to notify me about, lol)

On to your opinion, one of my favorite things about aftg is I feel like all the foxes have so much potential to be really interesting and complex characters. Like, every fox is, in my opinion, three dimensional enough to be a protagonist of their own story, if anyone ever chose to tell it. None of them are throw away filler characters, and with that I feel like all of them are underrated to an extent.

If we were to rank how the fandom views the characters, Neil and Andrew get the most attention (they are the protagonist & love interest, so naturally they get far more attention than the other characters), then next I would say is pretty obviously Kevin. Then I feel like Nicky and Aaron get fairly equal attention from what I see, then Matt is next, followed by Renee and Allison and finally Dan. (Seth gets honorary mention because I love him and there are a few others who do too but since he does die in book 1 after being in like 3 scenes I understand people having little interest in him.)

So I wrote out the above paragraph based on my impression of the slice of the fandom I engage with, and then I decided to check and compare it to the amount of fics tagged with each character on AO3. The order there is Neil - 6126 Andrew - 6117 Kevin - 3385 Aaron - 2719 Nicky - 2609 Matt - 1930 Renee - 1842 Dan - 1693 Allison - 1457

So I was actually pretty on point by that metric*, just apparently Dan is more popular than Allison.

Going back to how I was saying I think there is enough content from canon about all of the foxes that they are all three dimensional, there still is more about Andrew's lot than there is about the Upperclassmen, so like I understand why more is written about them too. I really do think I lot of it has to do with what we are provided by canon.

But now going back to your actual opinion - Nicky is one of the most underrated characters - I 100% agree Nicky is underrated, but I don't know if I would agree that he is more underrated than any other fox outside of Neil, Andrew, Kevin. I've seen some meta about him on here, and there are a few Nerik fics out there, but yes, I would love to see more!

Especially I would love to see people thinking more critically about the Nicky we actually see in the book, rather than who they think Nicky should be. The Nicky that is deeply flawed and trying his best, who has done both wonderful things and harmful things. Who has a complex relationship with his race and ethnicity, which is hinted at more than once in canon. Who has been traumatized and brutalized for his sexuality and is still flamboyant and proud in spaces that are traditionally hostile towards queer people.

There are so many layers and possible interpretations of his character, and while comic relief is often necessary in this fandom that deals with so many heavy issues, I for one really enjoy when there is space for Nicky to exist beyond just that.

*Idk what we can actually learn from AO3 character tags, but it was the only quantitative data I could think of.

send me a ☕️ and an opinion (popular or unpopular) and i’ll say whether i agree or disagree

#Anon #asks #aftg #ask game #nicky hemmick #nicky #short answers? i dont know her... #and honestly all the female characters are underrated more than any of the male characters #its the internalized misogyny #which is its own massive issue #but thats not what was asked lol #jes.post #words.jes

[i-did]

If you dont mind me asking, I'm really curious about your opinion of kevaaron as its growing increasingly popular. From the perspective of pairing a (bi?) guy with someone who is homophobic in canon. Often times it seems like Aaron overcoming his homophobia is rushed so that him and Kevin can get together.

Hey! So this is actually a very interesting ask because it shows how prevalent fanon is, that even you anon have stated that Kevin is bi and aaron is homophobic.

Aaron's homophobia is complicated but in my opinion there, especially considering it is 2006 and he is a straight guy. He definitely shows signs of being the "I'm not homophobic just don't shove it in my face/do stuff like that so public" type of homophobia. He is often HC as ace, sometimes ace/aro to combat this flaw and make him more likeable in a similar way people do with Kevin's homophobia.

Thats right! Kevin is probably homophobic! He never says a slur like seth, but going off of context he is about the level of homophobic as aaron, but in a much more dismissive rather than disgusted way. He says "it would be best for neil to remain heterosexual" (not a direct quote but you get the idea) this line is often used as evidence that kevin is bi in a similar way that Aaron's discomfort is used as evidence for him being ace. This type of dismissal and belief that being queer is a choice, is harmful. I've been told by a family member to stay in the closet because my life would be easier, and thats by someone who doesn't think its a choice.

Ace aaron isn't nearly the level of fanon as Kevin is bi is. But the other common HC of kevin is that he's ace/aro as well.

Again, as always, people can headcanon and interpret and interact with canon however they want. I think its just good to notice the line between fanon and canon. Fanon is inherently self indulgent.

I like to keep Aaron straight and homophobic because I think its important to show, and how people who are homophobic aren't secretly gay/bi the whole time trope. Also, ace people can be homophobic. Anyone can be homophobic. Its mostly straight people, but lesbians, bi non-binary people, ace women, gay men etc can be homophobic. Each group of queer person experiences homophobia uniquely, lesbiphobia is not the same as mlm homophobia, which is often based in femphobia, misdirected trans misogyny, and misogyny. And in fandom/media mlm homophobia takes on a whole entire form of fetishization (which isn't always inherently sexual).

Now! For my opinion on kevaaron.

I dont like it lol.

People can like what they like but personally if I don't like something I filter the tag and I have kevaaron filtered because I don't want to see it.

I think there is over emphasis on mlm ships with no chemistry over wlw ships that are arguably with more chemistry.

Overcoming your internalized homophobia is a real thing a lot of gay men have to face. And its hard, its really hard. And its not a thing to be rushed. A lot of peoples first gay relationship is really unhealthy because of this, dating someone who is closeted or freshly out, or being closeted or freshly out yourself is taxing.

Aaron and Kevin have less chemistry than renee and dan, (nora originally mentioned wanting them to maybe have something between them)

Most ships with aaron in my opinion seem to be based in the fact that it would be so cute for this short grumpy boy to be with someone so much taller, it also seems like a work around a lot of times with andrews trauma because you have his twin there.

Ships with aaron and matt are kind of funny to me because about all they share is a history with drugs. That's about it. Aaron is grumpy and matt is... actually not as sunny as fandom depicts him he's a lot more chill and less bubbly in canon but eh thats not really based in anything bad besides simplifying characters for fics and fandom.

I've never read a kevaaron fic but I wouldn't be surprised if they are rushed feeling like you said.

I still have internalized homophobia lol, and I've been out for 6 years now. its not an easy thing to undo.

Again I will state fandom is inherently self indulgent, I just also think that the core messages of the canon shouldn't be ignored and that people shouldn't say x charcters doesn't even have that flaw in canon. Characters are always multi faceted and complex if they're well written. They don't always have to be likeable. That's what makes them good, makes them foxes.

Its okay to like a character who is homophobic in canon and HC what you want, i have so many ideas for seth who I love, but I also want to make sure I dont fall into the "psych he wasn't a real homophobe-he was queer the whole time!" Trope because it inherently blames gay people for the homophobia they experience by making it a inter community issue where gay people just need to learn to not hate themselves, and "hahaha wouldn't it be so funny if this homophobe was gay, that'll show him" as if being gay and hating yourself and others is... a good thing to wish on others and the gay community. The truth is some, in fact most, homophobes are straight people.

That being said I have a headcanon that kevin is bisexual, aromatic, but is with thea his whole life despite neither of them not being very happy but content enough, he never realizes hes aro or bisexual, and it follows basically Nora's EC after that. And aaron is straight and haloy with kaitlyn but sometimes wonders if he held on so tightly and married her just because he already put in all that effort and not to prove his brother right when breaking up with her, but thats only when he's depressed otherwise he's happy and chillin.

There is a very low number of openly bi men compared to openly bi women "how many men would be bisexual if we let them" is a cool quote from tumblr, and an accurate one.

My headcanon isn't a happy one but in my opinion fits with canon pretty well which is why I like it. A lot of people don't ever fully find out who they are. That's the reality, and my fandoms elf indulgences are me giving myself more realistically canon "content" in my opinion. Thats how I self indulge but not everyone has to.

People who like kevaaron or aaron and matt, do you show the same support for renesion? For dan and renee, dan allison ? If not, why? They have the same level of chemistry, if not more.

Just some questions to wonder why you ship the things you do and why the bar for mlm chemistry is so much lower than it is for wlw chemistry.

#aftg #all for the game #ask #aaron minyard #matt boyd #kevin day #fandom politics #fandom psychology #mailob #fig writes

[jkflesh]

Interview with jesu January 2021 New Noise magazine #56

Read the interview by Antoine "Neredude" Duprez below:

The “Terminus” Bandcamp page states that the album was done between 2016 and 2020. That's a long period in your standards! Did you get some sort of writer's block with Jesu? Or was it because you were so busy with your numerous projects?

— I never get writers block, I just simply move on to the next thing if I’m not currently inspired to work on a specific project. Most my records, for many years, have been written and recorded over extended periods of time; I work when inspiration strikes, when it doesn’t I move onto the next thing; there’s never a block for me with creation generally, maybe just specific areas. i take large breaks for my music so as to afford some sort of distance, gone are the times when an album would be hammered out in a month!

''When I Was Small'' has kind of a Radiohead thing in the vocals, whereas ''Alone'' reminds me a lot of Sigur Rós. Are those bands part of your background?

— Ok, interesting observation, but no Radiohead is not an influence on this song, the biggest influences on the vocals were Liam Gallagher from Oasis, and subconsciously "White Flag" by Godflesh (which I only discovered after the album was complete). I do love some Radiohead though, as I do Sigur Rós, but neither band is a direct or conscious influence. Musically “When I was Small” was mostly influenced by trying to recreate a vibe of early Neil Young mixed with Oasis, in a jesu fashion, coupled with a demo production; intentionally underproduced. I’m not sure where a lot of the influence on “Alone” came from, electronic pop music for sure, short and sweet was the intention, driven entirely by the voice sample.

Regarding “Terminus,” did you set yourself a framework or musical approach beforehand like you did for “Every Day I Get Closer to the Light From Which I Came?“

— Not really no, generally when I work on a bunch of songs things will fall into place naturally, the songs become a whole and then collectively the songs will become conceptual as i write, they build their own logic, so to speak, I don’t force anything, I let things happen organically as I write and record.

I think around 2013, you said “Every Day I Get Closer to the Light From Which I Came” was going to set a precedent for the next album. Now that it's out, do you still think so? Personally, even though both records are different, I can definitely hear a connection.

— Yeah, shame it took 7 years to come to fruition! And many things changed over those 7 years, as ever. Jesu certainly documents my personal journey in life, it’s ultra personal, Godflesh is much more external comparatively. A lot to the solo jesu work took a backseat when I worked on the collaborations with Sun Kil Moon, but that was very refreshing and inspired me to take jesu further, I had notions of discontinuing the project at some point, but the collabs with Sun Kil Moon inspired me to keep pursuing jesu.

"Every Day I Get Closer to the Light From Which I Came” was inspired in great part by you becoming a father. Can you tell us a bit about what was on your mind when you wrote “Terminus?”

— That’s very true, especially the initial journey of bringing life into the/our world. everything is there in the lyrics and artwork for "Terminus" so of course, like a lot of my work, depends on the listeners perspectives, they can make it their own, make it personal. But it’s essentially about endings, and my obsession with finality, my sensitivity to it and my fear of it. There’s a line in the title song that says “my end, our end, the end, the end”, which pretty much sums it up.

The EP “Never” you released before “Terminus” is quite different and more focused on electronics. I remember you telling me that you liked going experimental on EPs, doing stuff you wouldn't do on a full length. So I figure that's still the case?

— Yeah, I like experimenting with everything, I like satisfying myself with different ideas, obviously that doesn’t suit my listeners too much, but I make this music for myself, and I’m always trying to do better. I still don’t know why I put myself through the trial and hell of releasing music, I often think about just recording for myself and not bothering with an audience, but I’m not really capable of earning money in other ways, so I have to finish music and release it, let it go. For me "Never" was just another way of interpreting the jesu mood, nothing deviates too much from the original intention of the project. It’s weird, critically, it was perceived as this big electronic departure, whereas jesu has sounded pretty much like this most of it’s lifetime! “Pale Sketches", "Lifeline" even "Silver” is all mostly electronic, save a real drum loop in the song "Silver", but this EP seemed to get this thing that its all electronic, whereas it;’s no more electronically oriented than any other jesu record I have made. jesu is a mood that can be explored and experimented with, I’m not making the first album over and over, some can’t get over that, but that was a different moment in my life which I captured, and as an artist who challenges oneself besides the audience you can never win, and one will generally never win hah. This is a new jesu, it comes with age, transitions. "Never" was intentionally idiosyncratic and deliberately fvcked up sounding, and I think by and large critically the subtleties were lost on people.

“Never” features two version of ''Never There for You'', one of them described as the ''original vision''. Can you explained how you ended up releasing two version of this song?

— The “original vision” existed like that since around 2010, I shelved it, it was to be a Pale Sketcher song, I had an album’s worth of similar songs, I still do, couldn’t decide if they should be jesu or Pale Sketcher. I sent them to Aphex Twin / Richard James because he was a huge fan of the Pale Sketcher EP “Seventh Heaven”, we were talking about a release on his label Rephlex, I had all these songs that were floating between jesu and Pale Sketcher. But then he folded Rephlex for good, a real shame, so I was left with all these songs in limbo, I still am, but at that period I shelved them all. I returned to them around 2018 and started adding guitars and vocals, thinking that they will now definitely be jesu songs. “Never There for You” was one of them, so I wanted the listener to hear what it was originally before I added more of organic me. I’m working on finalising all those songs for Rephlex into future jesu, probably an album that I hope to release late 2021, it’s not a "Terminus" though, and probably most ppl will hate it hah.

“Terminus” is the first album to feature Ted Parsons in a long while. Did you invite him because you felt these songs needed his touch?

— I wanted some live drums, 3 songs only. I was going to play them myself, like on "Opiate Sun". "Infinity" etc, but I really wanted Ted involved and see how he interpreted my drum parts, he always swings something and makes it interesting. he’s a very real drummer, and a very real human being.

When touring is possible again, would you like to tour with Jesu, with Ted on drums?

— I may tour solo, with electronics and projections. The band thing is tiresome and always just sounds like a band, bands bore me these days because of the constraints of the instruments, rock records also bore me these days; same productions, etc, very little actual aesthetic, but its popular and what do I know. But I’d rather jesu now sound hugely expansive live, not just like a rock band. But i’m still unsure. Live drums swallow my voice live, I can’t sing above them, and jesu is a tiny project, can’t play big venues with stage separation and screens around the drums, and 8 guys diving around onstage, it’s not affordable. I stopped performing as jesu for some time due to all those reasons.

You said “Silver” is probably your favourite Jesu record. Are there other Jesu albums that stand out in your mind?

— Did I say that?! Haha. I don’t recall, and that opinion changes every day I feel. I like how concise and all encompassing "Silver" is; it covers most of the ground that I feel the project should cover. But "Terminus" is my favourite jesu album, and it should be, otherwise I would not feel I was moving forward, and I feel I am, it is the best jesu album I have made.

Last year, you told Olivier ''Zoltar'' Badin that the next Zonal album would probably go in the direction of it's title track ''Wrecked''. Is it still true to this day and what can you tell us about that upcoming album?

— Well, a lot of time has passed since, but I think Kevin and I are still quite struck on that song as a template for future recordings, although everything changes all the time, of course, and time is passing fast once again, we haven’t discussed Zonal in some time.

I know you don't actually consider yourself as a guitarist. With you focusing on your electronic projects like JK Flesh and Zonal lately, do you ever get tired of guitar? I'm asking this because I recently discussed the subject with Steven Wilson. He basically told me that after 30 years writing and doing gigs with guitar, he's feeling more creative and excited when writing music on other instruments and I wondered if you ever felt something similar.

— All instruments are just a means to an end for me; a tool for the bigger job, I don’t really wish to be overly proficient at any instrument, I liked that about punk, and it’s what I’m not that fond of about overly progressive music, it’s like it’s for show, I don’t do anything for show, I’d rather be shit than great, it’s more interesting, it reflects the human condition, imperfection. I don’t wish for things to sound perfect, whatever that is, people should not come to my music for that, they probably don’t and it’s probably why my audience is so small haha.

I recently discovered that you worked with Josh Eustis with the mastering of the JK Flesh / Orphx live album and was a bit surprised. How did that happen?

— Josh is a very good friend of Dominick Fernow’s (Prurient / Vatican Shadow / Hospital Productions, etc), and Dominick is a very close friend of mine. I was aware that Josh does very good mastering besides being an extremely talented artist, so Dominick suggested josh master that collaboration, and it sounds excellent!

I interviewed Lee Dorrian some time ago and we were talking about the impact Napalm Death had, not just the band itself but all the bands who were formed after playing in that band: Godflesh, Carcass, Cathedral, Scorn... Lee thought this legacy had a lot to do with John Peel broadcasting a wide array of music on young aspiring musicians. How would you explain such creativity and versatility from musicians who all played in Napalm Death at one point?

—  Lee is absolutely correct, a lot of very young kids listened to John Peel, most generations did, his taste exposed music to many of us who were already enquiring at a young age that we would not have heard anywhere else and of course back then this centralised things, not fragmented them like the internet does; a kid now can absorb an artist entire catalog in an hour, speed listen to it all, then have an opinion, but it’s informed, no context, no history, no experience. We heard music then on Peel and then hunted it down. It took work, valuable work that paid dividends. Peel’s broad appreciation of eternally subversive music and otherwise told us that music didnt need to exist in such strict compartments, that’s it’s all part of a greater whole, so when groups of musicians collaborated even at such young ages, our tastes were informed and wide, very rarely singular.

Can you tell us a bit about you latest remixing output? What were the tracks that you enjoyed the most remixing? Those are the names I could find: Full of Hell, Oathbreaker and a lot of projects I've never heard of.

— I always and love to remix, I love the fact that I didn’t create this music but can make something new from someone else’s work. Music is endless, for me, it’s just when you wish to end it, but ultimately it can never end. I have some remixes that I love moire than others, but only over time, I never let a remix go unless I am as happy as can be with it. Sometimes I would’ve loved to have done more, my Killing Joke remix is a good example of that, I wanted to go further, but Youth of Killing Joke told me they were happy with where I was at, I think I could’ve made it much better. The Oathbreaker remix you mentioned is a favourite of mine from the last years worth of my remixes. I’ll remix anyone, if they can afford my fee and I have the time!

I'm curious, since you released some of your music with your own label with Godflesh, Jesu and other projects, did it have an impact on the revenue you got from streaming platforms like Spotify, compared to albums released on Earache or Hydra Head? I'm asking this in the light of the neverending controversy regarding streaming revenue for musicians.

— On my own label more money can be earned from these services due to no split with another label, which usually would be 50/50, but streaming is very small as is common knowledge. I never see any royalties from Earache so can’t compare their rates etc since Godflesh is constantly recouping an advance from Columbia / Sony for the "Selfless" album that Earache, contractually, can recoup from, even though they didn’t give the advance, so they’re making money from the band and from an advance they never paid, which these days you would think that besides being unethical that it would be criminal, but such were the contracts in the 80’s / 90’s. So I’ve never seen a single penny from streaming with Earache!

I know it might be pointless to ask you, since someone's mind can change with time but do you still think “Post Self” may be your last album with Godflesh? Your told us last year that you weren't sure if you had enough in you creatively to do another album and also that the constant screaming was a bit harder to do.

— Hah, the shouting/screaming live now takes its toll, it does with age, I’m unsure due to not performing for so long thanks to the pandemic how my voice would be for Godflesh now in a live setting, I’d have very little problem in the studio. I’m still struck on the fact that there may not be another full length studio album from Godflesh, I haven’t been inspired to initiate one for numerous reasons, and I don’t wish for us to repeat ourselves in any way, I do have a lot of interesting old material though, some good rare stuff, demos, “Us and Them in Dub” which is also in the works, but I work on that sporadically, when I feel inspired to do so. So there’s a lot of good stuff coming.

Last time I interviewed you in 2014, Aphex Twin was making his grand return with “Syro”. I remember you telling me that the album was still shrinkwrapped on your desk. Knowing you're a big Aphex fan, I wanted to know if you liked that album, especially knowing that a lot of fans were disappointed by it.

— Ahh it was such a long time ago now that we spoke last! I love "Syro”, but I love Aphex, and since I first heard "Didgeridoo" when it was released and then "Quoth", he will always be a favourite, "Syro" may not be an Aphex favourite for me, but it’s still amazing, he is amazing; creative, subversive and doesn’t give a fvck ultimately, he’d also never release anything if he didnt really have to, he does this for himself, for me the best art is entirely selfish and should consider no one. People are always disappointed, a lot of people just can’t live with the fact that an artist strays from their own personal conception of what an artist should be, it’s some sort of misguided entitlement, I lost that when II was around 14, a lot of people don’t lose it and now these people have the internet. No artist owes me anything, if they gave me one thing in my life then i will always respect their art, regardless of whether it works for me or not, and if I don’t like it much, I won’t be peddling that opinion on the internet in an entitled egotistical manner, I’m glad I did not know that a lot of people were disappointed, haha.

Thank you very much! Best JKB, Jan 2021

#jesu #justin broadrick #interview

[forestwater87]

Every episode of Camp Camp ranked: A very (non)objective list

It's well past the time of year when Season 5 of Camp Camp would've dropped. I fully understand and support it not coming out; the crew's health and safety are much more important than a comfort show.

However . . . man, would it be nice to have some comfort right now.

So I'm reliving the entire series! I've been known to share with the world a whole bunch of Spicy Hot Takes, but I've never really sat down and talked about my feelings about the show as a whole. 

And what's the best way to do that? Well, just ask Jenny Nicholson: a numbered list! That is, here's the series ranked from worst episode to best, because I want to get the negativity out of the way early and focus on everything I love (and because people enjoy complaining, so let’s frontload all that). 

The takes will be hot. The feelings will be intense. The post, I'm assuming, will be largely unread.

Let's do it!

Oh and duh, there are spoilers. I tried to keep it pretty chill, but you’ll want to have watched the whole show or just not care about spoilers before going forward.

Also slashes in the middle of “naughty words” are meant to prevent this from being kept out of the main tags. Who knows if it’ll work? I don’t.

60. Who Peed the Lake? (Season 4, epis/sode 3)

Ah, good ol' Pi/ss Lake (or as @hopefullypessimistic84​ calls it because she's funnier than any of us will ever be, “Pis/s Fe/tish Dot Com”). Terrible, one of the few I’d consider nigh unwatchable. I actually kind of love this episode for being such great shorthand for "the absolute worst one."

Who signed off on an entire episode centered around Sherlock Holmes meets a bad om/o joke? Give me names and addresses: I just want to talk.

59. Reigny Day (Season 1, episode 6)

And nobody was surprised.

I'll admit I'm more willing to defend this episode than many people, but it's not . . . like, good. It seemed okay when there were only 11 other episodes to compare it to, but now that there have been so many bangers, this comes across as extremely weak. 

And let’s just say the Na/zi jokes hit a lot differently in 2020 than they did in the summer of 2016.

I’m overall happy with the direction the showrunners have moved Dolph’s character in, and I can’t totally blame them for using a kind of humor that was fairly common in the pre-Trump era, but yikes, this has aged like milk. And it wasn’t even very funny at the time, so it aged like milk that was already pretty bad to begin with.

58. Squirrel Camp (Season 4, episode 10)

This is a dumb one.

Not much else to say; it’s just kinda stupid and lame.

57. Fashion Victims (Season 4, episode 13)

I love Sasha, but this is filler. Which isn’t in itself a bad thing -- I have a couple episodes near the top that could reasonably be called filler, and a valid argument could easily be made that “filler episodes” don’t actually exist in a show with no plot -- but as much as I adore the Flower Scouts and enjoy the handful of good moments we get in this episode . . . who cares? Does anyone really give a sh/it about anything that happens here? Does anyone get their life from this one?

I didn’t think so.

56. Foreign Exchange Campers (Season 3, episode 3)

I know, I know, your Russian waifu came from this episode. Why do you think it’s so low on this list?

Okay, for real: this is . . . fine. It’s fine. It’s fine? I’m not mad at it, it just feels tonally incongruous and not very memorable beyond the fact that the fandom got really weird and kinda gross about Vera. But the episode itself? There’s some cute stuff with Neil and Nikki being jealous, but for the most part it’s a big hunk of white bread with some super mild white cheese that’s kinda soggy from sitting in a bag for too long and getting all condensation-y. 

That is to say: it’s fine.

ETA: Space Kid does say “fu/ck.” I can’t decide if that’s a point in the episode’s favor or against it.

This is the last of what I’d call the “bad” episodes. Everything after this ranges from mediocre to mind-blowingly amazing. But whatever our failing tier of Camp Camp episodes is, it stops right about here. 

Onto the good stuff!

55. Night of the Living Ill (Season 2 Halloween episode)

I keep switching this with “Eggs Benefits,” which probably means they should be tied. But whatever, this is my list and I am in charge and I’ve finally decided, after like 5 changes, that I like this one a little bit less.

It’s a fun Romero parody with nothing I’d call bad. Really this one’s only so low on the list because I think it’s kinda icky, and looking at those green snotty faces makes me queasy. If you think this is a bad reason to put it near the bottom of the list, then make your own post.

54. Cameron Campbell Can't Handle the Truth Serum (Season 4, episode 11)

I . . . don’t remember this at all. I initially had it a bit higher because I tend to love things with Campbell in them, but then I realized that nothing about this episode stuck in my brain even a little bit. 

Oh, this is the “Dolph has autism” episode that made everyone either extremely happy or really mad? Okay. I guess that’s the most remarkable thing about it. Neato.

Cam, I love you, but this was just not the best use of your sleazy charm.

53. Eggs Benefits (Season 2, episode 9)

This is one of those episodes with enough cute moments and good ideas to save it from being totally unmemorable, and I mostly enjoy rewatching. Platypus being a mom is a fabulous idea, and pairing the campers the way they did was mostly really interesting and fun.

The Preston-Nurf stuff takes it down several pretty significant notches, though. It’s what the kids would call problematic, and while I normally enjoy how the show doesn’t skew away from darker themes and jokes, it didn’t really fit either of their characters and just . . . isn’t fun to watch. It’s not especially funny, it’s not especially tragic, it’s just uncomfortable.

52. Camp Campbell Wants YOU! (Season 1, episode 0)

Honestly, this would be a lot higher if it was a full-length episode. It’s funny.

The next 5 or so episodes fall under the “cute but not very memorable” umbrella:

51. Nikki's Last Day on Earth (Season 3, episode 4)

I love the ensemble episodes, so this was always going to score higher than any of the single-character “meh” eps. I didn’t see the twist coming, though I know a lot of other fans did. Textbook example of “cute but not very memorable” -- the Platonic ideal of that concept.

50. The Candy Kingpin (Season 3, episode 9)

A clever idea that plays on Max’s worst characteristics and then calls him out for them, while also giving Dolph some much-needed character development. Unfortunately, I don’t feel like it really picks up until the last third of the episode, leaving the rest just kind of sitting there.

49. Campfire Tales (Season 4, episode 13)

Who doesn’t love campfire stories?

That’s all I got. They’re campfire stories.

ETA: OH SH/IT THIS ONE HAS THAT REALLY SCARY STORY! Where David’s all like . . . Slenderman’d. Fu/ck, I didn’t remember that until I was writing out my thoughts for #35 or so. That definitely elevates it, but I’m too tired to try and re-decide where this should go, so just tie it with “New Adventure!”

48. New Adventure! (Season 4, episode 4)

New trio! Focusing on these 3 was a definite risk, and I think it really paid off. While the “plot” itself isn’t anything special, there are a handful of really great side gags (hi, Dirty Kevin!!!!) and it’s fun to see these three interact. They all get some nice character beats. It’s a good time.

47. Something Fishy (Season 3, episode 8)

This might’ve hit me harder if I’d actually seen The Shape of Water, but the send-up works fine without having more than the seen-the-trailer level of understanding. Gwen dresses pretty, which I love; Max sucks, which I also love. What drags this one down is mostly feeling like the surreal aspects of the comedy go a bit too far into the “what the fu/ck am I looking at?” territory without really . . . making an actual joke beyond “look! Wacky!"

Why is David at the opera with a bird? Why??

46. City Survival (Season 3, episode 11)

Literally do not remember a single thing about this episode except David getting mugged and being called a “homeless twi/nk.” That should probably rank it lower on the list, but David being a fluttery mother hen saves it for me -- as does the fact that it leads directly into one of my favorite episodes, and the single best story arc of the series.

Next set of episodes is what I’m going to arbitrarily call “okay! but like the good kind of okay, not the bad kind.”

45. Bonjour Bonquisha (Season 2, episode 7)

Max and Sasha masterminding a scheme is really fun; their dynamic is great (though it won’t be fully realized until Season 4), and heartbroken David is so tragically cute it actually makes my heart explode out of my chest.

Also I can’t resist a good “3 kids in a trench coat” gag.

44. Anti-Social Network (Season 2, episode 2)

Neil is very relatable and I don’t have much else to say about this one. It’s fun to see an episode that more heavily focuses on our nerdy science boy, and Max and Neil teaming up to save Nikki was really charming and sweet and set my Makkiel ship out to sea.

43. A Camp Camp Christmas, or Whatever (Season 2 holiday episode)

Why does this episode have a musical number? It’s not good.

Okay, that was mean. This is fun and cute and Gwen wears a pretty purple sweatshirt and Space Kid gives her a present and it’s really sweet. But that musical number is an instant fast-forward for me, sorry.

42. Preston Goodplay's Good Play (Season 4, episode 7)

We get some Preston character development! Awesome!

It’s done in a really trippy and surreal way that totally fits his character and heightens the drama of the episode! Awesome!

David has an apparently-tragic history of being a French mime! Not a good call! 

Next tier: Some good sh/it! (Tbh, these could all be put in just about any order; they might as well be one massive tie.)

41. Cookin' Cookies (Season 2, episode 11)

I love the Flower Scouts. I love Dirty Kevin. I love the idea of accidentally starting a dru/g empire. Another weird, borderline experimental one focusing on side characters, and I think it works better than “New Adventure!” because the scale of the melodrama is just so over-the-top.

The fact that this is in the bottom 20 but I have nothing but good things to say about it illustrates how dang good this show is. It’s only getting better from here, folks!

40. Romeo & Juliet II: Love Resurrected (Season 1, episode 7)

Preston is a terrible playwright. This makes sense, because he’s like 11, but he’s the kind of hilariously bad I wish I’d been as a preteen, because his play is absolutely bonkers. Max fucking with David is great, Tabii vs. Bonquisha is great, Bonquisha in general is a giant amazonian goddess and I want to be swept up into her giant arms. Neil is . . . a robot, for some reason?

So much fun!

39. Camp Cool Kidz (Season 1, episode 4)

I don’t love Ered’s characterization in this one, but there are a lot of wacky hijinks in this episode that I think make it really enjoyable. Max’s wide-eyed revolutionary naïveté is a fun change from his usual dour pessimism, and Nikki’s loyalty to Ered is both very gay and very charming. Plus we get to learn a bit more about how the camp operates (and fails to operate), and it’s a nice way to better establish the campsite as its own setting.

(Definitely think “Cool” should’ve been spelled with a K though. But whatever, I don’t write for the show.)

38. Scout's Dishonor (Season 1, episode 3)

The birth of Neeancy! The introduction of the Flower and Wood Scouts! Neil saying “cu/nt” -- one of the first and only truly shocking uses of profanity in the entire show! ZUKO!

I don’t know if my fondness for this one is rooted mostly in nostalgia or if it was actually really fun, but I enjoyed the he/ll out of it. Not as highly-rated as some other episodes mostly because it doesn’t really do anything, character or story-wise, but not every episode needs to be a massive game-changer that drowns us in feels. Sometimes it’s enough to have a fun romp, and this is very that.

37. Ered Gets Her Cool Back (Season 3, episode 2)

Awww, Ered. I have a soft spot for her, because I love the archetype of a spoiled bit/ch clearly still figuring out how to be a person and have friends. You really get the sense of her as a teenager trying to sort her shi/t out in this episode, which I would love to see more of. Her interactions with Nerris are top-tier, and I like that it’s a continuation of how her character’s been softening since Season 1 into this kind of big-sister figure.

Also, all the female campers in this show are lesbians. I do not make the rules.

36. Attack of the Nurfs (Season 4, episode 2)

I feel like this is a pretty underrated episode. But then again, I feel like Nurf is a pretty underrated character, so maybe that’s just my own personal bias.

I really enjoyed all the different iterations of Nurf, and I think Blaine did a killer job giving each one its own personality and life. It’s a fun episode that plays hard with cartoon physics (a 3D printer printing people! I love it!) and has a surprisingly moving ending.

At least, that’s what I think. Most other people seem to find this one pretty forgettable. Again: make your own da/mn list. I liked it.

35. Mascot (Season 1, episode 2)

This entire episode is memorable for so many things, but a few of my favorites:

David is established as kind of a di/ck.

Platypus arrives and kicks all the as/s.

Quartermaster is the best.

Nerris, Harrison, and Space Kid all get little moments to show off how cute they are.

Neil and Nikki bonding.

This:

34. Quest to Sleepy Peak Peak (Season 2, episode 3)

I love watching Nerris and Harrison bicker, and Neil and Nikki fit really well into their group. It reminds me of being a kid, and of playing Dungeons & Dragons (as an adult, because I’m so cool), and of summer . . . which is a really good thing for this show. There are a lot of funny one-liners, and it’s just a good dang time.

33. Quartermaster Appreciation Day (Season 2, episode 6)

I don’t think this one is all that well-loved, but I thought it was funny. There are literally zero important plot or character moments, but it made me laugh a lot, and that’s all I need a Camp Camp episode to do. 

I love QM, and the more we learn about him, the more confused and disturbed we end up being. What a fu/cking champion.

32. Arrival of the Torso Takers (Season 3 Halloween episode)

I lowkey hated this one when it came out, because I knew the Daniel stans were going to be exhausting. And they kind of were? But looking back, it’s a great way to reintroduce this motherfu/cker. He’s a lot scarier than he was the last time around -- but also less competent, which is a great way to kick him in the proverbial ba/lls -- and while I wish it had a lot more Gwen in it, it’s a clever and creative Halloween episode. 

31. Operation: Charlie Tango Foxtrot (Season 3, episode 10)

Charlie . . . Tango . . . Foxtrot . . . CTF . . . OH! Capture the Flag! I never got that before. Oh, that’s neat. I love this show.

Listen, every time the writers decide to take a risk and do something bizarre and creative, I’m going to be here for it at least a little bit. An entire episode told from the POV of the Woodscouts, explaining how hard they failed in all directions? A great gag where everyone in Petrol’s story talks in grunts? The return of Jermy Fartz?! Fantastic. 

30. Panicked Room (Season 4, episode 16)

Listen. I’m a sucker for my trash grandpa; anything Campbell-centric is probably going to be pretty good (except #54), because he’s just one of the most consistently funny and engaging characters. Good times are had whenever this terrible man is on the screen, and giving him a romantic backstory? A tragic romantic backstory full of mistakes and emotional damage?? One where he waited 17 YEARS for the love of his life???

We have no choice but to stan.

29. Party Pooper (Season 4, episode 15)

I’m so predictable. If you put Gwen in something, I will be happy. If you make an entire episode about how Gwen is under-appreciated and overworked and just trying to do her best despite the circumstances, I will dedicate my firstborn child to you.

Anyway, this episode is really sweet, and I liked the unexpected direction the writers took her relationship with her dad. He seems like a nice guy, they seem like they have a nice relationship, and . . . well, an episode about how hard it is to be an adult millennial hit pretty hard. Plus this was just a really pretty episode -- and not just because Gwen was in so much of it! Seriously, that night sky was a thing of beauty.

Also if you say a fuc/king word about Max and that godda/mn dog I will choke you out with your own intestines. Few things are more hilariously, annoyingly ironic than the fact that the entire fandom ignored and failed to appreciate Gwen . . . in the episode all about how everyone ignores and fails to appreciate Gwen.

28. Culture Day (Season 3 holiday episode)

Now, would it be arrogant to point out that I had the idea for a Culture/Heritage Day back in September 2018? Yes, especially since I don’t think the writers ever read fanfiction and it has literally nothing to do with this episode. Will that stop me? He/ll no it will not! I am a creature of ego! Read my stuff! 

Anyway, this is a really fun look at Neil’s background, personality, and relationships. Max looking out for him is just . . . oh my god, I cannot, I’ve written like 30 of these and my brain is starting to melt, but these two are so cute. I love arrogant Neil, and I love protective Max, and I love QM and Gwen fuc/king over the Flower Scouts to save the day. Everything about this episode is lovely.

27. Cameron Campbell the Camp Campbell Camper (Season 3, episode 7)

This should not be ranked so high (even if these are all essentially tied). This is a dumb episode based on a really, really dumb premise. 

But . . . I don’t know what to tell you. “Samboy Kidwell,” Max realizing he and Campbell are disturbingly similar and not liking what his future could look like, David’s “I’m not mad, I’m disappointed” face . . . this episode happens to hit all of my favorite things. It had a really good balance of heavy-handed moralizing and goofs, it was part of the most graceful lead-up into a finale the show has ever had, and I’m just all about it. 

Excellent job, Samboy. Count Olaf would be proud of your disguise.

There ends the “some good sh/it” tier. We’re starting to get into the really excellent stuff now!

26. Parents' Day (Season 2, episode 12)

I know. You want this to be higher. I hear you.

Honestly I’m kind of shocked it’s this high; it’s my least favorite of the season finales so far, and I had to push past a lot of prejudice to actually rank this where I think it deserves to be, as opposed to somewhere in the like mid-40s. Mostly because it gave fuel to the raging inferno of “Max has terrible parents and David should adopt him” headcanons, which I’ve detailed my problems with extensively in the past (in a post that, statistically speaking, none of you have read).

But, trying to be objective: is this episode actually any good?

Well . . . yeah, it really is.

So much work was put into giving each of the campers families that make sense with their characters and bounce absurdly well off of them, ranging from wholesome and adorable (Nerris’s family) to quietly tragic (Harrison’s parents), and they’re all designed so well; they’re fun to look at and fun to watch interact with the kids and each other. (The only exception is Dolph’s dad, who is both kinda lame and misattributes the cause of the weird Na/zi thing because it did not come from Germany, I assure you. But things with Dolph are always a little off, and I don’t really know how you would give him a backstory that actually works with the character, so they were caught between a rock and a hard place there.)

The drama of David having to choose between the man he considers his father and the camp he considers his home is really touching, and him and Gwen choosing to take a sad camper out to get pizza instead of covering for their boss’s a/ss is such a beautiful moment for both of them that I can’t really blame the fandom for losing their mind over it. Campbell’s arrest leading into the arcs of the next two seasons was great as well, and the finale left us all with this weird sense of foreboding because we didn’t know what was going to happen next; it was the only finale that actually ended on something close to a cliffhanger, while still being satisfying enough to keep us all from melting down.

Plus, it’s funny. Carl and Candy are really funny and the idea of Neil and Nikki’s parents boning is funny in a horrible way. The joke about Quartersister is funny. It’s a good episode.

Should this be higher? Maybe, but I can’t bring myself to put it above the rest of these episodes. Again: make your own list.

25. Mind Freakers (Season 1, episode 10)

The episode that launched a thousand ships. Assuming those ships are all Harrison/Neil, anyway.

It’s hard to talk about these Season 1 episodes because they feel so classic. Like, what is there to say? You’ve all seen it a couple dozen times; I’ve seen it a couple dozen times. Harrison is a di/ck, Neil is possibly an even bigger di/ck, and magic may or may not be real. (Though spoilers for literally every season: yes, magic is definitely real.) It’s so much fun watching these two smug as/sholes snipe at each other in an almost literal playground hair-pulling way that could very easily be read as flirtation. 

And the fandom did most certainly read it that way, at least for a little while.

24. Gwen Gets a Job (Season 2, episode 8)

It’s Gwen. What, was I supposed to not put it this high?

This was the first Gwen-centric episode, and it absolutely slaps. She’s pushed to the breaking point and responds by being a cold-hearted BAMF, and it got her some pretty significant hate from fans but I don’t give a fu/ck, I loved it. We got to see her all dolled up, and then we got to see her all disheveled, and both of those looks were gorgeous. David gives her a tiny fragment of the love and validation she deserves (I don’t know if this is when gwenvid started taking off -- I think it wasn’t really until “Parents’ Day,” or even Season 3 -- but I ate that s/hit up).

Also, again: job hunting post-2008. It’s a bad time, y’all. Camp Camp gets it.

23. Follow the Leader (Season 4, episode 6)

Yeah, I was kind of surprised at how high this landed, too. I guess I’m just a sucker for unlikely companionships, and these three have a great chemistry. The combination of competitiveness, sass, and reluctant admiration make their interactions a lot of fun. Their motivation of doing petty errands for Campbell for the sake of getting at the Box of Illegal Contraband is a great framework too, with high enough stakes to justify all sorts of wacky shenanigans without causing actual anxiety.

I want to see these characters forced to spend more time together. Please, RT, make that happen.

22. Escape from Camp Campbell (Season 1, episode 1)

In terms of numbers, this feels so low, but considering everything from about #45 on is ranked as at least decent, this is actually a pretty high rating. There are 21 episodes I’d call better than this, but these decisions were all pretty painful.

This introduces us to everyone! The main trio, the counselors, Mr. Campbell; we get a snapshot of the major personalities running around the camp, the major points of conflict (Max vs. David, primarily), the major building blocks of future episodes, setting, and relationships . . . 

Again, I don’t know how much of my love for this episode is nostalgia -- there’s a lot of squeeing at familiar faces and gags; this is the first time David gets hit by a bus!!! -- but it was a fun and funny introduction to a series that’s ended up being so important to me, and I’m so grateful this wonderful, quirky little show with its wonderful and quirky little premiere. 

Of all the episodes, I really can’t look at this one objectively. It’s too important.

21. The Fun-Raiser (Season 3, episode 1)

David and Gwen scheming is my ki/nk. They very rarely scheme together, but every single time their teamwork makes the dream work (or, more frequently, makes the dream fail horribly and have disastrous consequences) my soul flies out of my body and takes to the stars, where I write another 500 first chapters to gwenvid fanfics I’ll probably never finish.

This is a great follow-up to “Parents’ Day,” where we immediately see the consequences of the previous season finale and what happens when the one adult in the camp disappears. Mr. Campbell was a terrible adult, true, but at least he was smart enough not to steal QM’s hook. Like . . . whose plan was this? It was so bad. These two are hilariously incompetent sometimes -- often when their bad ideas are feeding off of each other, actually, a la this and “Space Camp Was a Hoax” -- and watching them frantically try and keep all their balls in the air is so great. 

The ending is satisfying, too; a bit graphic, in keeping with a show that tends to keep the violence limited to periodic spurts of bloodshed 1-2 times a season and mostly pretty mild the rest of the time, but between Max stepping up and fixing everything while still being his shi/tty self to our dear dumba/ss counselors getting their dumb as/ses handed to them (deservedly so, if we’re being honest) . . . it’s such a great note to begin a new season on.

20. Journey to Spooky Island (Season 1, episode 5)

A classic.

We get to meet our spooky boy Jasper, we get to watch the comedy trio play off each other and continue to sketch out the general contours of their friendship, and we get to see the Quartermaster with a big purple dil/do for a hand. What’s not to love?

19. The Butterfinger Effect (Season 4, episode 17)

CONTROVERSIAL HOT TAKES! GET YOUR CONTROVERSIAL HOT TAKES HERE!

I’ve already gone into some pretty intense detail about why I think this one is actually really good and carries the theme of embracing change that everything about Season 4 was centered around, but none of y’all read that so here it is in short: this episode is super funny, almost all of the campers’ transformations work really well as extensions of their characters while still being strange and surprising, and the fact that Nurf creates all of these problems by trying to solve them is deliciously fun to watch in a karmic sort of way.

Or maybe it’s just because any Nurf-centric episode is going to rank pretty highly for me. That is also possible.

18. Space Camp Was a Hoax (Season 2, episode 10)

Our camp counselors being bad people: it’s my drug of choice.

We get Space Kid tripping balls in what might be one of the funniest sequences in the show, the entire camp coming together to try and pull off the stupidest, most impossible task (and kinda maybe almost nailing it???), and once again the fun of watching Gwen and David scramble to keep from getting caught in their boss’s shit/ty lies is so great. And Lindsay’s voice acting is absolutely killer, even more so than usual. 

17. Jermy Fartz (Season 2, episode 4)

I get the sense this might be a somewhat controversial one. 

I’ve written before about why I think this episode is a lot of fun, but it mostly boils down to two things: watching the campers try (and fail) to be nice to the most bully-able person on the entire planet, and the essential likeableness of Jermy. 

No, really.

I think a lot of people were put off by Jermy’s general grossness, because . . . my god is he disgusting, but he’s also polite and good-natured, and seems totally self aware of how difficult he is to be around, without letting it make him depressed. He’s cheerful in a weirdly downbeat way that’s impossible to understand until you see him in action. He’s so matter-of-fact about his own awfulness in a way that I found entirely endearing. I don’t think I’d want him at my camp, either, but get that kid to a good dermatologist and gastroenterologist, teach him some basic hygiene and social skills, and you’ll have quite a little gentleman there.

I do however find it hilarious that apparently David got the type of tree wrong when making fun of Jermy. Not only is that a great moment for reveling in David being an as/shole, but he didn’t even have the right wood. F/ucking idiot. I love him so much.

These last ones are my favorites! (Well, duh, that’s how this whole ranking thing works.) Maybe not perfect, but just really good and with limitless rewatch value.

16. St. Campbell's Day (Season 4 holiday episode)

They Grinch’d Camp Camp. Those brilliant bast/ards, they really pulled it off.

Ignoring the fact that David is truly frightening-looking for most of the episode, this is a great bookend to Season 4, following up on the theme established in the first episode about how David is a flawed and selfish human being despite trying his best not to be.

This is another one I was surprised to find so high on the list, but the more I thought about it the more I realizes how good it is. David being a jerk is always one of my favorite storylines, and the fact that the trouble comes from him trusting Mr. Campbell too little instead of too much is a nice twist on the usual formula. Gwen coming to help him out despite a blistering hangover gave me aggressive shipping feels, yes, obviously. 

Between a lot of really funny little gags like QM’s failed satanic ritual and the genuinely touching moral about the importance of spending time with the people you love, it’s just a really lovely episode that gets just the right amount of maudlin for the holiday season. 

15. Jasper Dies at the End (Season 2, episode 5)

I kept switching this and “Dial M for Jasper”; it was a really difficult decision to make, figuring out where these two belonged. I think in the end, while the John Dies at the End reference was very, very good, this one loses me a little bit by being told from David’s perspective. Now, normally the more David is in an episode the more I’ll be likely to love it (see my #1 for proof of that), but his blinders when it comes to the camp and Mr. Campbell result in a really funny story, but one without the same emotional heft as hearing about what happened from Jasper’s point of view.

That doesn’t mean it’s not perfect for what it needs to be: each Jasper episode builds on the previous ones, and having the same intensity of “Dial M for Jasper,” where we learn how he died and how his relationship with David fell apart, would be weird and heavy at this point. In Season 1 we just found out he’s a ghost (and eagle-eyed viewers realized he’d been a camper with David); in Season 2 we find out how David views their friendship and time at camp; and in Season 3 we get Jasper’s perspective. It’s an absolutely wonderful raising of the stakes (for lack of a better term), but the one that packs more of an emotional punch is going to rank a bit higher than the one that’s mostly just for laughs.

That being said: there are plenty of laughs in this one. Everyone -- Griffin, Miles, Travis, the animators -- nailed this one, and it gets funnier every time I watch it.

14. Camporee (Season 1, episode 11)

AKA the episode where Forest realized she was in love with Gwen. 

What a great idea for an episode, seriously. Every coming-of-age story has a talent show or a competition or a big game -- something where the kiddos can show off their improved skills and teamwork to beat their bullies or whatever. And this show has both kinds of bullies: the popular girly girls and the violent muscleheads. What a great moment to pull everyone together and show how friendship can help us accomplish anything!

Except . . . of course that’s not what happens. Of course they’re absolute garbage, and of course teamwork isn’t the answer. Gwen is the perfect foil for David here, being the anti-teamwork, anti-Camp-Campbell adult who can perfectly and effortlessly undermine David’s relentless optimism. David wants so badly for his campers to live in the same coming-of-age summer movie he did as a child, and their staunch refusal to do that leads to a really heartbreaking closer to the episode, as well as lead into the next one. Everything about this, from the challenges to the setup to Gwen shouting “we are winning this FUC/KING trophy!” is just gold.

13. David Gets Hard (Season 1, episode 9)

We have David. We have Nurf. We have Gwen. We have Max trying to be helpful in the shi/ttiest way possible.

We have all the makings of a da/mn good episode. And they deliver. Not a very emotionally intense or moving one, but so, so funny.

12. Dial M for Jasper (Season 3, episode 5)

This isn’t the fate any of us expected for Jasper, and it’s not the fate of a lot of people wanted. But godda/mn it, it worked. The constant bait-and-switch the episode keeps playing with, where you keep waiting for something really dramatic and tragic to happen . . . and then the reality is that Jasper died because Mr. Campbell was stupid and careless, and it was all just a horribly sad accident.

It’s anticlimactic, but in a way that suits the series, both as a comedic counterpoint to all the hype throughout the episode and as a way to establish that Cameron Campbell is a bad man first and foremost through selfishness and laziness, not Daniel-esque sinister evil. Jasper’s death was totally avoidable and totally Campbell’s fault, and while that’s sad, it also adds a weird sort of lightness to the episode. David didn’t do something terrible to kill his best friend, Jasper didn’t kill himself, and without having actively chosen to murder a child (well, not this time), the door remains open for fans accepting Campbell’s later pseudo-redemption. It was just an accident, and Jasper was “haunting” David to tell him that he was sorry for how their friendship ended. That’s really sweet, actually.

I think it’s the best way this reveal could’ve gone, and I’m so impressed with how they pulled it all off.

11. Into Town (Season 1, episode 8)

This might actually be the only flawless episode in the entire show. I mean, I call a lot of them flawless, and I mean that on an emotional level -- “I love this so much I cannot see anything wrong with it” -- but this one is a masterpiece of storytelling. All the technical jumbo I’m bad at, like planting and payoff and tension and all of that, is just perfect.

I feel like this is the kind of claim that needs to be backed up with a long-as/s essay full of citations and video clips and references to, like, Joseph Campbell or something, but this is my 49th entry in the list so I am not going to be doing that. Besides, I don’t think my English degree qualifies me to critique film/animation; I don’t even entirely know half the terms I’ve used to compliment this episode. Someone else please explain why this is such a good one.

10. The Quarter-Moon Convergence (Season 4, episode 5)

I’ve mentioned in other entries that the weird, surreal humor sometimes doesn’t work; it feels too much like being odd for its own sake, and sometimes gets so distracted in being surreal that it forgets to include anything funny or meaningful. 

This . . . is not one of those.

Putting Harrison and QM together is a stroke of genius; the two of them are literally the most magical beings in the entire show, and using them as the conveyance for this great Lovecraftian horror-comedy was such a good idea. I don’t know if we’ll ever see these two interact in another episode -- honestly, this felt a bit like lightning in a bottle, and I have a hard time imagining what could possibly bring them together again -- but if this is the only episode we get, it is such a fantastic one.

Harrison makes a really good everyman, despite his powers; he’s just the right amount of confident and insecure to pull off that wide-eyed apprentice to QM’s grizzled wise mentor. (The fact that QM is objectively a terrible mentor is beside the point.) I still don’t entirely know what the two of them accomplished, but it feels baffling and momentous, with the perfect amount of gravity to make things extremely tense all the way through to the end.

Also, I guess God is an octopus? That’s kinda cool. I like octopuses.

9. Camp Corp. (Season 3, episode 12)

Another unpopular opinion? Oh ho ho, I am so contrary! I am Not Like Other Fans! I am the Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way, refusing to have the same opinions of all you prepz.

I know this wasn’t the most well-loved episode, but I think it did a really great job tying together story threads woven throughout Season 3: Max’s selfishness leading to him hurting other people, his growing realization that he cares about his friends and the camp itself, the parallels between him and Mr. Campbell (and the fact that they both get this redemption moment in the finale). 

This is the most Max-centric season, focusing on his flaws and character growth, and they pulled it off in a really organic way that felt faithful to his character, touching without being too maudlin. The fact that his feelings about the camp are echoed in Gwen, Neil and Nikki, the other campers, and even Mr. Campbell drives home how important the camp -- and David -- are to this strange little family. 

Each season, Max reluctantly becomes a better person, without changing the fundamental core of who he is. That’s a really hard putt for the writers and Michael, and I’m blown away every finale by how they so consistently nail it.

8. Time Crapsules (Season 4, episode 18)

Gwen-centric? Check.

Max learning how to be a better person while still being the bratty kid we know and love? Check.

Looks at one of the most under-appreciated character dynamics in the entire show (i.e., Max and Gwen)? Checkity check-check-check.

I don’t really have much to say about this one, which I should: it was considered a pretty serious letdown to a lot of fans, and I’m not sure how to explain why I loved it so much. 

Comparing Max from “The Order of the Sparrow” to Max from this episode is wild. It’s not like 2 different characters: they’re still very obviously the same cynical, self-absorbed 10-year-old trying to survive summer camp. But he’s become a more considerate friend and decent version of that kid, and it’s great to watch. The moment where he and Gwen go too far and immediately regret snapping at each other is still painful (on my god, the VAs in this show, they’re so talented), Nikki and Neil both get nice subplots about how they’re also growing up, and the ending is fuc/king hilarious, perfectly breaking the tension from Campbell’s speech, which is both beautifully done and important to hear, especially if you’re in a period of uncomfortable transition (like, say, in your late 20s, or living through about 5 different national and global catastrophes).

And okay, I found that speech on the wiki for this episode and it made me deeply emotional, so here:

Here's the thing: you've got to take your failures and make something out of them. Take Camp Campbell for instance: a lot of poor decisions went into making this place what it is today. Sure, somewhere along the line it maybe strayed from its path, not living up to the camp it wanted to be. At some point, the camp realized that the camp would never reach the end of its path until it was ready or until it gave up. So, if the camp wanted to keep embezzling money and dealing with foreign powers, so be it! But, at some point, it didn't anymore. I never saw this coming, but I'm starting to think this camp is the best it's ever been.

If this is the last episode of Camp Camp we ever get -- and for at least a little while, it looks like it’s going to be -- I can’t think of a sweeter, funnier, and more lovely bittersweet note for this show to go out on.

7. The Lake Lilac Summer Social (Season 3, episode 6)

And again: No one was surprised. 

This is the longest non-finale episode of the show, and it uses that time perfectly. Rather than having some big emotional moments and character arcs -- which are great, don’t get me wrong -- the writers use the extended time to build a series of shenanigans as complicated as Gwen’s matchmaking web, and watching her try to set up a series of dominos (with David, for once, being the responsible, level-headed one) is almost as satisfying as the catastrophic results. 

Neil and Snake steal this episode, even from someone as in love with Gwen as I am, and for an episode that’s largely about making fun of shippers, there hasn’t been one that launched nearly as many ships as this. Neil/Snake? Tabii/Erin? Max/Nikki? GWENVID?! It’s all here, and I am here for it.

It was also fun to get a traditional episode setup in a very non-traditional show. I assume this means the beach and/or hot springs episode is forthcoming. (No, Pis/s Lake doesn’t count. Obviously it doesn’t count.)

6. Keep the Change (Season 4, episode 1)

Again, this is an episode I’ve said a lot about in the past -- and I was pretty uncharitable toward Season 3, which in retrospect was very unse/xy of me -- but I stand by a lot of my opinions then: this is a fu/cking great episode.

David is an as/shole, Max is an as/shole, Campbell is an as/shole. No one escapes the as/sholery. David schemes, Max catches him in the scheme, Campbell gets drunk and kind of gay . . . I’m 54 entries into this list and I don’t have much to say anymore: it’s just really good and fun and I love it.

5. Camp Loser Says What? (Season 4, episode 9)

This is another one I kind of hated when it came out, and again for fandom-related and personal-grudge reasons.

Fu/cking Daniel. That motherfu/cker. He shows up for 12 minutes and Tumblr bursts into flames. Every single time.

However, it’s really hard not to love this one. Daniel-as-Trump is a clever but subtle -- I mean, for this show’s definition of subtle -- allegory, and it’s amazing how much this slimy freak and the Woodscouts slot into it. David is a bise/xual disaster with the absolute worst taste in men, Dirty Kevin and Daniel are onscreen together for all of 2.5 seconds and the kevdan shippers lost their minds, and Xemug looks like Megamind for some weird reason.

My only minor complaint is that the ending is a bit anticlimactic, but it plays on Daniel’s stupidity and the value of teamwork, so it’s a very small nitpick in an episode that mostly works like gangbusters.

4. Cult Camp (Season 2, episode 1)

Duh. There’s a really good song and we’re introduced to a charismatic, sinister, and totally dumba/ss villain. What’s not to like?

I don’t think I even need to say anything about this episode. Season 2 started off the summer by throwing a lit firecracker directly at the viewer’s face, and ignoring the fact that we as a fandom proceeded to eat each other, it’s impossible not to get caught up in the episode’s wild energy.

And dude, that song. Fabulous. Fu/ck Daniel, but thank god he’s around to be such a prickly little pri/ck.

Now for the top 3: Literally perfect, wouldn’t change a single solitary thing.

3. After Hours (Season 4, episode 8)

I’m not sure anyone loved this episode as much as me. But this is my list, and I will put this up at the top if I want to and you cannot stop me.

It’s much easier in a lot of ways to talk about the episodes I hated than the ones I love this much. What do I say besides “literally everything about this fills me with joy and my life is better because it exists”? I don’t know. The counselors are my favorite characters, and between Gwen and QM having the weirdest bonding experience, Gwen getting to meet up with people who care about her silly fanfiction, Mr. Campbell being the trash grandpa of my dreams, David getting in way over his head . . . it’s the episode I always wanted, and they made it work so well.

Also, I just discovered that “Gwen Isn’t Your Mother So Stop Asking Her to Rinse Your Dishes” is an actual song and I am overwhelmed with delight. Here, I’m embedding it as well as linking because it’s so good:

God. This show. What the fu/ck even is up with this amazing, weird-as/s show.

2. The Order of the Sparrow (Season 1, episode 12)

Duh.

The entire first season is a great time (except “Reigny Day”), but it’s a pretty low-stakes kind of great time. There isn’t much in terms of emotional depth until the very end of “Camporee,” despite some hints at darker themes in one-off jokes and quick asides, so this episode comes a bit out of left field, tonally speaking.

But that’s not a bug, it’s a feature; if the show had been this overtly emotional from the outset, this finale wouldn’t hit as hard, and the rest of the season wouldn’t be as funny. 

This manages to serve as a capstone to the conflict of the first season, building on episodes like “Into Town” and “Escape from Camp Campbell” in a way that feels totally natural for both David and Max’s characters while revealing new sides of them. It works because it’s so unexpected, but it doesn’t come across as incongruous with their personalities. It’s the first and only time David swears in all 4 seasons, and that line -- I don’t even need to say it, you know exactly what I’m talking about -- still gives me chills.

Also, Gwen sings the camp theme song. Impossible not to cherish.

1. The Forest (Season 4, episode 12)

I’m not sure if this one is a surprise or not. It might be the obvious first place, or it might be a bit of an oddball for some people.

I had a really hard time choosing between this and “The Order of the Sparrow”; I switched their places half a dozen times, and the difference in quality between the two is razor-thin. I think part of that is because it accomplishes a lot of what “Order of the Sparrow” does: puts David in a situation where he’s pushed to his absolute emotional and physical capacity, crushes every shred of hope he has left, and sees what he’s actually made of when you strip everything away. It’s much more dramatic this time around, but it’s the same basic concept.

And just like in the Season 1 finale, what we see is a man who’s determined to do good even when he isn’t rewarded for it, even when he’s actively punished for it. Who wants to love nature, and life, and make the world a better place -- despite his faults, his selfishness and thoughtlessness and anger, David proves that he is fundamentally kind. He’s not nearly as deludedly optimistic as he seems; he just refuses to stop trying.

Because somebody fuc/king has to.

I’ll admit, some of what puts this one in first place is that I’m a sucker for whump, and David really goes through the ringer. However, I also think it’s important to acknowledge the risk Joe Nicolosi took with writing this episode: it’s all centered around a single character, it’s darker and more viscerally bloody than any other episode in the show’s history, the art is focused on these grand sweeping backgrounds that must’ve taken forever to paint, and there’s very little talking in a show that runs 99% on clever dialogue. This could have so easily backfired -- and for some fans it did -- but it was brave and beautiful and breathtaking.

I’ve actually only watched this in full once. It’s really hard to get through; it’s just so intense and even disturbing. But if there’s one episode I'll remember for the rest of my life, even when I’m 80 years old and haven’t seen the show in years, it’ll be “The Forest.”

It’s funny how such a sharp departure from the format and style of the rest of the show somehow manages to perfectly capture the heart of it. Talk about a fuc/king achievement.

So what have we learned?

I don’t entirely know what the purpose of this whole exercise was. I think it was mostly to get myself a nice Camp Camp fix that came from something other than slogging through 20 different fanfic WIPs, and to remind myself of what a strange and fun ride the last 4 summers have been. 

I also wanted to take a moment to acknowledge what Camp Camp means to me. This show has been hugely important to me on a personal level: I met two of my best friends through this fandom, and I’ve never been more connected to a community or readers than I have with CC. I know I bi/tch about this fandom a lot, but it’s a big extended internet family, and I’m so happy to be a part of it. Going through all these episodes, getting the chance to ramble about the things I liked and the things I didn’t, was a great way to reconnect with a series and community that I love.

So . . . what have we learned?

1. Season 4 was all over the place.

Some of this has to be due to the sheer volume of episodes, but when I sat down and organized everything into tiers:

There isn’t a single category Season 4 doesn’t have at least one episode in. I was surprised to see how high a lot of them ended up; it really was the best and worst of the show so far.

For the fun of it, I decided to give a number to each placement -- 60 points for the #1 episode, 59 for #2, etc. -- and see how each season broke down. Because that’s that kind of thing I think is worthwhile, apparently. And . . .

2. Seasons 1 and 4 are really good, actually.

Well, I don’t think anyone’s surprised to see how well Season 1 stacked up; it was amazing. But I was surprised to see how much I ended up enjoying Seasons 3 and 4, when if you’d asked me before this little project, I would’ve said they were the most underwhelming. Maybe I messed up the numbers a bit -- I’m no mathmagician -- but not only are they all really close, but Season 4 was one of my favorites.

3. This entire show is really good, actually.

One thing that really struck me when I put it all together visually is how most of the episodes sit in the “good,” “really good,” or “amazing” categories. The amount of episodes that are memorable, fun, and/or emotionally resonant is crazy. I don’t now how many other tiny cult-hit web series can say the same, honestly, and all of the writers, animators, directors/producers/other people whose jobs I don’t really understand, and voice actors should be commended for their outstanding talent and hard work.

4. Thank you, Camp Camp.

It was a real pleasure to relive all of these episodes again and think about what they meant to me. It won’t be the last time I sit down and watch this show -- and it certainly won’t be the end of my being a shrieking fangirl over it -- but with this break, where we have to get through a blazing, extremely difficult summer without a new season to fawn over, it’s nice to stop and appreciate what a precious gem of a show this is.

I hope everyone involved with Rooster Teeth is taking a much-deserved rest and prioritizing their health and well-being. Thank you for creating something truly special, and I can’t wait to see what happens next.

#campcamp #camp camp roosterteeth #thank you RT Animation for giving me my life these past 4 years #cc david #cc max #cc gwen #i'm not tagging all the characters #campcamp masterpost #i really hope this doesn't get hidden from the tags but #guys this was a super intense labor of love please check it out #but also reading it is also a super intense labor so i get it if you don't XD